Speaker 1: Patriots Unfiltered the world's original podcast. Patriots Unfiltered brings you
Speaker 1: inside Jillette Stadium for rousing conversations on everything New England, Patriots,
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Speaker 1: Paul Parillo, Mike Desso, Evan Lazar, Tamara Brown, and Alex
Speaker 1: Francisco as they bring you in depth coverage of the team.
Speaker 2: He's a red shirt rookie at that point, so it's
Speaker 2: really that's his rookie season essentially too. So now we're
Speaker 2: really not talking about them, really knowing.
Speaker 1: Search for Patriots Unfiltered anywhere you get your podcasts. This
Speaker 1: is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar
Speaker 1: and Alex Barth.
Speaker 3: And Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it. He joined as always
Speaker 3: by our Barak.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars but they are
Speaker 1: still a.
Speaker 3: Better coordinator than him.
Speaker 4: To be a coordinator, Mayo was never a coordinator. Hiring
Speaker 4: him to be a co I coach and I'm hiring
Speaker 4: him to run the football team.
Speaker 3: He's games.
Speaker 4: The buck stops with him. He is the boss.
Speaker 2: So Kyle Shan's head coach is what you're saying you
Speaker 2: got me so fired up that I cursed.
Speaker 4: That was awesome. That was and I got more than
Speaker 4: maybe any show we've done. I got a ton of
Speaker 4: positive feedback on like just people reaching out on social
Speaker 4: media or whatever.
Speaker 3: Just gas yourself up.
Speaker 4: No, no, I'm saying, like to both of us that like, hey,
Speaker 4: this was you guys had the conversation. That's what I
Speaker 4: wanted to do, Like I wasn't we said that going
Speaker 4: to the show. We wanted to lay out the argument
Speaker 4: for both sides. It wasn't one of us trying to
Speaker 4: necessarily convince the other one. It was just here's the
Speaker 4: case for one, here's the case for both. We we
Speaker 4: or the other. We both thought they'd each be a
Speaker 4: good hire. And I think it resonated with a lot
Speaker 4: of people. So I appreciate everybody that reached out. And
Speaker 4: that was it's gonna be we we have tough act
Speaker 4: to fall. It's going to be tough to follow that show.
Speaker 4: That was one of the best shows we've done.
Speaker 2: There you go, so you you got your way, you won,
Speaker 2: you want you you won the argument. Mister Kraft sided
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 4: They were they were waiting to hear that until they
Speaker 4: made high that clearly I presented that I was.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: Of course, they made the decision based off of the
Speaker 2: show last week, and they decided.
Speaker 4: Robert to go with you looking at his phone going
Speaker 4: back and forth.
Speaker 2: You know what, he makes a lot of good points,
Speaker 2: That's what they were saying. Uh and uh, you know
Speaker 2: you you won, so you know, credit to you.
Speaker 3: I guess I don't. I mean, you haven't won anything yet.
Speaker 3: You know, you gotta win.
Speaker 4: No pressures on me. Now, you just get to sit back.
Speaker 4: If it doesn't work out, and I told you it
Speaker 4: does work, you can say, well.
Speaker 2: It would have worked with they run the ball thirty
Speaker 2: five times a game, and and you know eight nine, Well.
Speaker 4: You're going to talk about run rate. Let's let's not
Speaker 4: look up with the Lions run rates because.
Speaker 2: We'll get to all this stuff, all right, kind of
Speaker 2: I know, I know you you have all the ammo
Speaker 2: because the people have been coming at at your boy
Speaker 2: a little bit over now now that the dust has
Speaker 2: settled it, it feels like there are some anti Rabel
Speaker 2: people that are starting to come out, some Titans fans,
Speaker 2: you know, people like that. We'll get to all that.
Speaker 2: And here in a second, Evan Lazar Alex Bars. If
Speaker 2: you don't know by now, I'm sure you do. Patriots
Speaker 2: Catch twenty two next couple hours with you here today.
Speaker 2: It's our first show since the Patriots announced the hiring
Speaker 2: of Mike Rabel as their head coach, So we haven't
Speaker 2: been on the air since the hire.
Speaker 3: We haven't been on the air since the press conference.
Speaker 2: So we got a lot of things to talk about
Speaker 2: here today in terms of all that and spin it forward.
Speaker 2: But I think the biggest thing that I wanted to
Speaker 2: start with today because when we had that argument last week,
Speaker 2: you know, I obviously knew were able to player. I
Speaker 2: knew of able to coach from the outside looking in,
Speaker 2: but I never spent any real time with him or
Speaker 2: observing hammer at press conferences of his or anything like that,
Speaker 2: so I.
Speaker 3: Didn't know him as deeply as maybe I do now.
Speaker 2: And I think the one thing that I knew when
Speaker 2: they hired him was they were going to get and
Speaker 2: I hope, I'm you know, speaking out of turn, they're
Speaker 2: going to get an a hole right that was going
Speaker 2: to be able to come in here and say you
Speaker 2: you and you out, you you and you in.
Speaker 3: You know, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 4: This is our.
Speaker 2: Direction, this is our plan, and he definitely is going
Speaker 2: to do that. I feel as though that that stuff
Speaker 2: still applies. He's going to get the right people. He's
Speaker 2: going to get the people that do things the right way.
Speaker 2: He's going to get football people to run football. He
Speaker 2: is going to coach a more discipline team, a more
Speaker 2: fundamentally sound team, more aware and you know, situationally aware
Speaker 2: certainly football team.
Speaker 3: Which was all the things that were the selling points.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one thing that stood out to me just
Speaker 2: watching his introductory press conference, having him in here on
Speaker 2: PU for fifteen minut it's the other day, and then
Speaker 2: his interview I would say yesterday with Ei was really
Speaker 2: good too. And having all of these interviews now as
Speaker 2: Patriots head coach, the number one thing that I think
Speaker 2: I undersold initially with this was how analytically minded in
Speaker 2: detailty is when it comes to football, Like, this is
Speaker 2: a guy that can talk your ear off about football philosophy, strategy, scheme, analytics,
Speaker 2: sports science, player health, mental health, you know, and player
Speaker 2: just in terms of philosophy of how to deal with
Speaker 2: the modern player in all these different walks of being
Speaker 2: a head coach, personnel, scouting, you know what is it
Speaker 2: that you look for and wide receivers? He's got an answer,
Speaker 2: you know, how are you going to apply analytics to
Speaker 2: the football program? He's thought of these things, and that respect,
Speaker 2: he reminds me a little bit of Bill and that
Speaker 2: he has all of these types of things that go
Speaker 2: into building a football team and go into building a program.
Speaker 2: All he's thought these things through, and he has answers
Speaker 2: for all of it, and and sound and smart, you know,
Speaker 2: intellectual answers.
Speaker 3: About a lot of it.
Speaker 2: This is not you know, all I played linebacker and
Speaker 2: I'm a meathead and we're gonna bit kneecaps. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is this is the guy that's really thought things through
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways about about coaching. So I
Speaker 2: understold that aspect of him, about how just detailed and
Speaker 2: really just football savvy he is because I knew he's
Speaker 2: a great motivator. I know who's a good defensive mind.
Speaker 2: You knew he was a great culture guy. But I
Speaker 2: do think that he has a lot more of that
Speaker 2: element to him than I expected. And it really does
Speaker 2: feel like and look, we're in the honeymoon phrase right
Speaker 2: now with it. Let's see what happens come September if
Speaker 2: they start losing games and things like that. But right now,
Speaker 2: it really does feel like they've found the perfect middle
Speaker 2: between Bill Belichick and Gerrod Mayo, where you now have
Speaker 2: the intellect of somebody who thinks the game more on
Speaker 2: the lines of Bill and can go to that depth
Speaker 2: that Bill could go to with the game, but also
Speaker 2: has a little bit more of a softer touch of
Speaker 2: a modern player philosophy. And I think that that's great.
Speaker 2: I'm excited about all that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And look, I mean it's a good caveat that.
Speaker 4: It's it's one thing to say all the right things,
Speaker 4: it's another thing to execute them. We thought you're rad
Speaker 4: and some of the coaching staff at this time last year.
Speaker 4: We're saying a lot of the right things. But the
Speaker 4: difference is when a lot of the stuff Mike Brevil
Speaker 4: talks about he's done, he's done before, whether he did
Speaker 4: in Tennessee. You talked about the analytics stuff, which we'll
Speaker 4: get into, and I think he might be surprised on
Speaker 4: my take on that. Well, you know, he's done that
Speaker 4: in Cleveland. He spent last year in Cleveland with with
Speaker 4: what might be the most analytically driven organization in the league.
Speaker 4: But no, the stuff you're talking about that surprised you.
Speaker 4: This is what I was. This is what I meant
Speaker 4: when I said said program builder, right, like the core
Speaker 4: concepts aren't there is that Well, we're gonna work hard
Speaker 4: and we're gonna respect each other and we're gonna be
Speaker 4: accountable like all those kind of buzzwords. But it's also
Speaker 4: you know, we're gonna we're gonna do this in this
Speaker 4: and in player evaluation when it comes to analytics, and
Speaker 4: this is what we want guys that can do this, right,
Speaker 4: It's not just we want guys that work hard. He
Speaker 4: gave that answer I forget, which he did so many
Speaker 4: interviews the other day, which credit to him. I think
Speaker 4: it was one with Dan Roach where he talked about
Speaker 4: the wide receivers and he goes, right, we want guys
Speaker 4: with the big catch raiders. We want guys that can
Speaker 4: create after the catch. We want guys that are right.
Speaker 4: That's actual. So it's not just we want guys that
Speaker 4: work hard and that stuff the coach buzzwords. There's actual
Speaker 4: football substance behind it. And when you combine those two,
Speaker 4: that's where you get your program. And he didn't get
Speaker 4: into the nuts. And bolts of it. I didn't expect
Speaker 4: him to get into the nuts and bolts of it
Speaker 4: in the first few days. But between the interview he did,
Speaker 4: the initial press conference and then interviews he did subsequently
Speaker 4: had a good interview with Zolak and Bertrand in ninety
Speaker 4: eighty five some of the other stuff, like you can
Speaker 4: kind of see the skeleton for what the program is.
Speaker 4: We're really getting idea of what this is going to
Speaker 4: look like. Fullback might be coming back. Credit to you
Speaker 4: for getting that one out of him. Again, he kind
Speaker 4: of talked about what he wants with receivers. I thought
Speaker 4: it was notable when he was asked basically, you have
Speaker 4: the fourth pick, you have all this cap space and
Speaker 4: just your thoughts, he went right to the offensive line
Speaker 4: and immediately and there was another answer he gave in
Speaker 4: another interview where he was kind of asked about building
Speaker 4: the roster, and he went right to the offensive line.
Speaker 4: So we're kind of seeing these core concepts early on.
Speaker 4: But here you have a guy that isn't just going
Speaker 4: to talk about the core concepts. We've seen him execute
Speaker 4: this in.
Speaker 2: The past, so he has plans, yes, and I hate
Speaker 2: to kick the last guy when he's down, and I
Speaker 2: don't want to do that. But to compare and contrast, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Girod had concepts of plans, right, like he had ideas,
Speaker 2: but I don't think he necessarily knew how to take
Speaker 2: those ideas and turn them into tangible practices, right, and
Speaker 2: actually execute those ideas. And then we're overarching, right, And
Speaker 2: then they got it and they got into everything, and
Speaker 2: they get into the season, and they get into training camp,
Speaker 2: and then the train is going one hundred miles an
Speaker 2: hour and things start going really really fast.
Speaker 3: What I look at with Mike Rabel is that he already.
Speaker 2: Has actual concrete evidence and plans of this is what
Speaker 2: we're gonna do. This is how I put it into
Speaker 2: practice in Tennessee, and this is how it's gonna work.
Speaker 3: And that's refreshing.
Speaker 2: It's refreshing to have somebody that is asked and I know,
Speaker 2: you know that the analytics answer he gave just made
Speaker 2: me just I mean, I could listen to that all day.
Speaker 4: I think we did that. He was kind of crazy
Speaker 4: about it. It's like, you go back to that argument
Speaker 4: we had last week. Yeah, and it was a philosophical argument.
Speaker 4: It wasn't you know, debating is this right or wrong?
Speaker 4: You go back to that argument, and then you listen
Speaker 4: to what he said over the last forty eight hours,
Speaker 4: and there are things we can both point to and
Speaker 4: hang our hat on that's like, Yeah, that's that's what
Speaker 4: I'm talking about. That's the guy I want coaching my
Speaker 4: football team, which I think is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: That to me is a good way. That's what swayed me.
Speaker 2: I was already convinced, Okay, it's a proven coach with
Speaker 2: a proven you know, concept, and I understand why the
Speaker 2: hire is happening, and I didn't need to be that
Speaker 2: sold on it, you know what I mean. But what
Speaker 2: really put it over the top for me the last
Speaker 2: couple of days is all these elements of this is
Speaker 2: a guy that is more modern thinking and more analytically
Speaker 2: driven than I knew that I anticipated. Now is some
Speaker 2: of that because of his year in Cleveland and he's
Speaker 2: coming off that And you mentioned so Paldi to Podesta's
Speaker 2: in Cleveland. Who's the Jonah Hill character in Moneyball? Right
Speaker 2: for people that don't know, So, he was a big
Speaker 2: analytics guy in baseball. The Cleveland Browns hired him to
Speaker 2: run their analytics department and bring analytics to football, and
Speaker 2: they have a huge analytics department, like it's one of
Speaker 2: the biggest in the league.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: The Rams are very analytically driven and have two guys
Speaker 2: in their entire analytics department, so it's not necessarily about volume.
Speaker 2: The Patriots currently have one person employed to run analytics
Speaker 2: in the entire football department. No, No, Rastine is is
Speaker 2: in football, but this is you know, their director of
Speaker 2: research is the one guy who is who's running analytics
Speaker 2: for the Patriots. The Patriots, in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: you know, are our dinosaurs when it comes to applying
Speaker 2: analytics to person to scouting, to the personnel side of things.
Speaker 3: And we can get to that.
Speaker 2: But all these different things that he has said that
Speaker 2: he that he's talked about.
Speaker 3: Has really been encouraging in terms.
Speaker 2: Of having a modern view, having an innovative view of
Speaker 2: the game, but also still understanding that football is football,
Speaker 2: and it's one of the trenches, and they're a physical element,
Speaker 2: there's an aggressive element, there's a motivational element, and all
Speaker 2: those things are true. What I worry about is when
Speaker 2: you hire a coach that can't apply both, right, that's
Speaker 2: only worried about. We're gonna be fast, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: be aggressive, and we're gonna be physical, and we're gonna be.
Speaker 3: Tough, like cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's important, but you know, there's all these other
Speaker 2: things now that go into football that we know. So
Speaker 2: with all that being said, that's a lot of sunshines
Speaker 2: and rainbows up the new head coaches, you know what. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and rightfully, So, he's done a good job for the
Speaker 2: two days that he's been on the show to go
Speaker 2: a long way to go. The concerns that I still
Speaker 2: have about this entire situation are still there until we
Speaker 2: find out more information. And I understand that I'm maybe
Speaker 2: getting concerned about something that hasn't happened yet in terms
Speaker 2: of the coordinator interviews, because we haven't heard much about
Speaker 2: where we're headed with that.
Speaker 3: But I think that starts soon. Yeah, he said that
Speaker 3: they were going.
Speaker 2: To start talking about it yesterday afternoon after all of
Speaker 2: his media obligations were finally over with, and they're, you know,
Speaker 2: him and Elliott and Ryan Cowd and those guys are
Speaker 2: going to get to work on the interview process for
Speaker 2: the coaching staff.
Speaker 3: But a couple of things with that one.
Speaker 2: It can't be understated how major of a higher offensive
Speaker 2: coordinator is it is a massive, massive hire for the
Speaker 2: direction of this franchise. And I want to kick around
Speaker 2: some names and things like that as well, but just
Speaker 2: from a big pictures perspective, it's a major, major aspect
Speaker 2: of this is who he's gonna tab as coordinator. And
Speaker 2: if you talk to people down in Tennessee, it wasn't
Speaker 2: always great in terms of putting together a staff down there.
Speaker 2: He didn't really and this is just their their word,
Speaker 2: so I'm just taking them at their word down in Tennessee.
Speaker 2: Didn't really get along with Matt Lafleur, and then promoted
Speaker 2: Arthur Smith to avoid losing him to Matt Laflour because
Speaker 2: Matt Lafleur wanted to bring Arthur Smith with him to
Speaker 2: Green Bay. So he kind of, I would, I think
Speaker 2: lucked in is the wrong word, but he he's sort of,
Speaker 2: you know, by association, kind of stumbled into a coaching
Speaker 2: staff on the offense side of the ball that worked
Speaker 2: for a while there in Tennessee. So who hecquires his
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator and then obviously you know what kind of
Speaker 2: offense they build is still to me the number one
Speaker 2: question that I have, The number two question, of course,
Speaker 2: is how this is all going to work out in
Speaker 2: the front office. There's been a lot of reporting out there,
Speaker 2: Mike re Reeve, Tom Curran, people that are in the
Speaker 2: know that you trust that Mike Rable is going to
Speaker 2: be the last line, right, He's going to have the
Speaker 2: final say on personnel. But Mike Rabel is not going
Speaker 2: to be scouting four hundred college prospects and grinding the
Speaker 2: tape all off season of you know, who's the guy
Speaker 2: he told me to watch earlier today that's in a
Speaker 2: like San Jose State.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you need to watch it. You do need to
Speaker 4: watch it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's at San Jose State trip. Yeah, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's the receiver. I'm sorry he's not watching you know,
Speaker 2: day three guy, right, Like, he's not grinding film on
Speaker 2: He's not grinding the film on all these guys. Right,
Speaker 2: that's gonna be cowten and that's gonna be Elliott Wolf.
Speaker 2: So can you get the coordinator higher?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Can you pick players like that? That's what this is
Speaker 2: gonna come down to. I think we all feel really
Speaker 2: good about Rabel as the head coach of the team,
Speaker 2: and you feel like you're in good hands in terms
Speaker 2: of the head coach of the football team. But that's
Speaker 2: only one piece of it. You know, that's a big piece,
Speaker 2: but it's only one piece. So now, how do we
Speaker 2: move forward with those two things are still concerns that
Speaker 2: I have because just from the outside looking in, just
Speaker 2: from my opinion, what I look at with Rabel and
Speaker 2: Ryan Cowden and Elliot Wolf and that whole dynamic, I
Speaker 2: kind of look at a peaceful transmision of power like that.
Speaker 2: To me, looks like Ryan Cowden and Mike Rabel are
Speaker 2: going to be running the show here, not before long.
Speaker 2: But Elliott Wolf has the institutional knowledge of what the
Speaker 2: roster looks like right now, what the coaching staff looks
Speaker 2: like right now, how the buildings run, So they're keeping
Speaker 2: him on to kind of help transition into the Rabel era.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to April and it comes to
Speaker 2: the draft, or it comes to March and free agency,
Speaker 2: how are they gonna run the board and how are
Speaker 2: they gonna go about picking the players is a massive
Speaker 2: piece of this. So I don't know which way you
Speaker 2: want to go from there, but I think that you know,
Speaker 2: we know who the people in charge are on the
Speaker 2: personnel side, the coordinators is more about kicking the names.
Speaker 4: So I guess that's easier to start, and maybe we
Speaker 4: buy some time. Maybe we get some coordinator interview. See
Speaker 4: me looking at my phone or Evan looking at his phone.
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to we know the computers because there's
Speaker 4: no death, so there's an interview. We want to be
Speaker 4: able to react to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, stop looking at your phone, all right, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to find out we have news pay attention on.
Speaker 4: The front office. Thing Like. It almost kind of feels like, now,
Speaker 4: now Bill would grind the film, but maybe not to
Speaker 4: the level that some of the other guys did, just
Speaker 4: because he was also doing the head coaching stuff. It's
Speaker 4: kind of feels like the set up under Bill right
Speaker 4: where Ryan Collton, Elliott Wolf. They're gonna do the legwork,
Speaker 4: They're gonna like get all the reports together, and then
Speaker 4: they're gonna go to Mike Rabel and basically be like,
Speaker 4: here are your options. Yeah, and then Mike looks at
Speaker 4: the options and he picks right, which I don't think
Speaker 4: is a bad set up with Wolf. I think you're right.
Speaker 4: So much of this process has already completed. The scouting
Speaker 4: process does not begin in January, begins really in August,
Speaker 4: and in some cases began a year ago or two
Speaker 4: years ago with some of these guys who are under
Speaker 4: who have played multiple years, who are seniors. So you
Speaker 4: can't just blow the whole staff out. You can't start
Speaker 4: from scratch in January. You would be so far behind
Speaker 4: you would it would be impossible to catch up from
Speaker 4: how far behind you are. So to me, Elliot Wolf's
Speaker 4: here because him and his staff did all the work
Speaker 4: during the football season. He's going to be able to
Speaker 4: kind of pass that forward, like you said, some of
Speaker 4: the institutional knowledge, and then we'll see when the draft's over,
Speaker 4: if he sticks around or if it's all right, you know,
Speaker 4: we'll we'll take it from here. Rydan Callvin will take
Speaker 4: it from here, and you move on from that. But
Speaker 4: I don't hate the setup. I don't for for what
Speaker 4: this year is. I don't know that I would keep
Speaker 4: it permanently. I think it's basically Elliot Wolf kind of
Speaker 4: auditioning for his job at this point. But for what
Speaker 4: this year is, I think that's probably the right way
Speaker 4: to structure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned the Vrabel's comments about receivers and like
Speaker 2: what he looks for a wide receivers which, by the way,
Speaker 2: not not to get into speculation about trades.
Speaker 3: He described a J.
Speaker 4: Brown, He did describe it. Yeah, he also kind of
Speaker 4: described Tech McMillan.
Speaker 2: Tech McMillan doesn't is not physical like that Teed McMillan is.
Speaker 2: He described described a J Brown contested catches.
Speaker 4: Funny, Sorry, I saw that quote going around and everybody's
Speaker 4: just saying he described whatever whoever their favorite receiver is
Speaker 4: that's available.
Speaker 3: Oh no, he described a J.
Speaker 2: Brown to a t like, contested catches, yards after catchability,
Speaker 2: tough to tackle, physical in the run game like it's
Speaker 2: a J. Brown, right, And so held hopefully with this setup,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be Rabel and whoever he hires as the
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator saying for us to make this scheme work,
Speaker 2: this is the archetype, like, this is the type of.
Speaker 3: Player that we need.
Speaker 2: And then Elliott Wolf and Ryan Cowden can then go
Speaker 2: and narrow down the list. So, okay, these are the
Speaker 2: five guys that fit that type of mold, and then
Speaker 2: Rabel will then go watch some tape himself and kind
Speaker 2: of come up with it of who exactly, you know,
Speaker 2: he feels is the best out of that group. So
Speaker 2: that that's how it runs in a lot of places.
Speaker 2: You know, the coaches come to the personnel people and
Speaker 2: they say, you know, these are the groceries that I
Speaker 2: need to make this meal, and then they're supposed to
Speaker 2: go and find the right ingredients and then bring them
Speaker 2: back to the coach.
Speaker 3: So it's a fine setup. I don't mind it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit awkward obviously with the
Speaker 2: holdovers from the last regime and Elliott Wolf and Matt
Speaker 2: Growe and Cameron Williams, the director College Scouting, pat Stewart.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a high ranking official in the
Speaker 2: Patriots front office. Like those people are all still here currently.
Speaker 2: They were all at the press conference on Monday, so
Speaker 2: they're all still currently here. And it is a little
Speaker 2: bit of an awkward dynamic there. But it Rabel's the
Speaker 2: guy that has the hammer, as Mike Reaves put it
Speaker 2: on your station, I think, then, you know, everybody's got
Speaker 2: to kind of fall in line underneath Rabel, and he's
Speaker 2: the one that hopefully will be able to keep everybody
Speaker 2: you know, on schedule, on tracks and in check. So
Speaker 2: that's the front office side of it. I do eventually
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I still feel like it will
Speaker 2: be Ryan Cowden and Mike Rabel for the long term,
Speaker 2: and maybe we see some of these other guys phased
Speaker 2: out over the course of the next couple of years.
Speaker 2: But the other big element to this as well, just
Speaker 2: going back the little history on Ryan Cowden and Mike Rabel,
Speaker 2: this was supposed to happen in Tennessee, right, These two
Speaker 2: guys were supposed to take power in Tennessee after they
Speaker 2: fired John Robinson and Tennessee Cowden was named the interim
Speaker 2: general manager for the time being, and the owner, who's
Speaker 2: the owner. She said that, you know, Cowden was going
Speaker 2: to be the general manager, Rabel was going to be
Speaker 2: the head coach. And then in order to basically avoid
Speaker 2: giving too much power to Mike Rabel, because that's his guy,
Speaker 2: You're basically handing the building over to Mike Ramble at
Speaker 2: that point. In order to give, you know, to avoid
Speaker 2: giving up too much power to Mike Rabel, she changed
Speaker 2: her mind and hired Ran Carthin And that was sort
Speaker 2: of what caused the the House of cards, right like that,
Speaker 2: that's sort of what caused it all to fall down
Speaker 2: there in Tennessee. So from the outside looking in, this
Speaker 2: looks like mister Kraft is saying.
Speaker 3: We'll do it. Well, we'll give you the keys, and
Speaker 3: with Ryan Cadden, we're cool with that.
Speaker 2: So that's the front office side of it. Before we
Speaker 2: get into all the coordinators. Because I made a list,
Speaker 2: you made a list. We all have names, and I
Speaker 2: think you know it's it's super important to talk about.
Speaker 2: We do have to pay the bills here first and say, hey,
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Speaker 2: Toyota dot com. It's Toyota's official website for deals from
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Speaker 2: the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots. Okay,
Speaker 2: before we open it up to the phones into the email,
Speaker 2: which we have plenty of, I do want to talk
Speaker 2: about offensive coordinator and where they go. Now, big big
Speaker 2: news yesterday Patriots and Jason Tommy Reese goes back to
Speaker 2: Cleveland as their offensive coordinator. So Tommy Reese is off
Speaker 2: the board. Where do you would you like to see
Speaker 2: them go with offensive coordinator? And I think it's kind
Speaker 2: of Josh McDaniels verus the field right now for a
Speaker 2: lot of people.
Speaker 3: So how do you specifically feel about Josh.
Speaker 4: So I'm still kind of where we were last week,
Speaker 4: which is I'm not opposed to it. I don't think
Speaker 4: he'd be a bad hire. I'm curious how much more
Speaker 4: there is to the twenty twenty Cam Newton offense, because yeah,
Speaker 4: I think they're basically gonna end up running a version.
Speaker 4: They should run a version of that with Drake may
Speaker 4: If Josh McDaniels is here, there's obviously the big plus.
Speaker 4: He's not a flight risk. He's not going anywhere. You
Speaker 4: have some security, you have some you know you're gonna
Speaker 4: build continuity with him and Drake may Be. It'd be
Speaker 4: a fine hire. I'm curious about some of those up
Speaker 4: and coming guys I said last week, can he find
Speaker 4: his own? Ben Johnson? I would still kind of poke around,
Speaker 4: talk to talk to people in that world and see
Speaker 4: if you find somebody you really believe in. I keep
Speaker 4: getting them mixed up. Matt Mike, which one's in La
Speaker 4: Mike Lafleur is an interesting one.
Speaker 2: You get that mixed up to two names like Hars
Speaker 2: either Okay.
Speaker 3: The other one Mike l is the coordinator.
Speaker 4: The other one Mike Reese threw this name out, Dave
Speaker 4: rang Goon. I think it's the quarterbacks coach in LA. Yeah,
Speaker 4: something like that past game who worked for Arthur Smith.
Speaker 4: So there's a bit of a through line there. It
Speaker 4: was interesting though, when I looked up, So I did
Speaker 4: this whole thing before Mike Greable got fired, and I
Speaker 4: posted on Sunday. You can read on ninety eight five
Speaker 4: the sports on dot Com. It wasn't so much a
Speaker 4: list of potential offensive coordinators. It's definitely part of it,
Speaker 4: but it was more. And I was texting you during this,
Speaker 4: I think you're got annoyed with.
Speaker 3: Me, Yeah, because you were throwing out random names.
Speaker 2: Well so it was Staley Barrett put everybody on the list,
Speaker 2: fifty guys.
Speaker 4: But this is my point. I was getting so sick
Speaker 4: of the he's a Patriot guy, he's a Belichick guy.
Speaker 4: He's not going to go outside the building. It was
Speaker 4: kind of a gut response to that take. And then
Speaker 4: will you need a pipeline offensive coordinator? Take to just
Speaker 4: be like, hey, here's all the offensive coaches he's been
Speaker 4: connected to. Thirty one names, on there. But when I
Speaker 4: went through that list, like there's definitely some offensive there's
Speaker 4: definitely some offense coordinators on there, whether it's Josh McDaniels,
Speaker 4: whether it's Tim Kelly. I had Tommy Reese on there
Speaker 4: that's now not happening. But the guys I found that
Speaker 4: were really interesting were like the guys who are a
Speaker 4: year or two away from being an offensive coordinator, the
Speaker 4: guys that need maybe one more job to round out
Speaker 4: the resume and be an offensive coordinator. Whether that's a
Speaker 4: guy liked Staley in Cleveland, who I think was a
Speaker 4: top offensive candiate coordinator candidate at one point and I
Speaker 4: don't know whatever happened to that. But a guy like
Speaker 4: Duce Staley, a guy like Luke Steckel, who's his backrouandsitioning.
Speaker 4: He's coached a bunch of different positions, been a bunch
Speaker 4: of different places. He's the Raiders tight ends coach last year, right,
Speaker 4: heller brock Bauers.
Speaker 3: He was in Tennessee at some point, so kept him.
Speaker 4: In Tennessee, which he's always telling to me. Coach comes in,
Speaker 4: looks at the staff, ninety percent of those guys getting
Speaker 4: blown out. He kept Luke Steckel, So that tells me something. J. T.
Speaker 4: Barrett was another one. He was on the on the
Speaker 4: staff of Lions when Barrett was at Ohio State. Right,
Speaker 4: you want a little day Ben Johnson flavor. J T.
Speaker 4: Barrett is the assistant quarterbacks coach in Detroit. You bring
Speaker 4: him in as the quarterbacks coach and maybe kind of
Speaker 4: get him going. So if you hire a guy like
Speaker 4: a Lafleur or like one of these up and coming names,
Speaker 4: when he moves on. Now you have J. T. Barrett,
Speaker 4: Now you have Luke Steckell. Now you have one of
Speaker 4: these guys that's ready to become your offensive coordinator. So
Speaker 4: I'm with you. I think it's McDaniels against the field.
Speaker 4: If it is McDaniels instead of the pipeline. The next
Speaker 4: big question is wide receivers coach. Wes Welker is obviously
Speaker 4: the name that comes to mind. He was teammates with
Speaker 4: Hines Ward in Pittsburgh before Rabel, before he came here.
Speaker 4: Hines Ward's now wide receivers coach at Arizona State. They
Speaker 4: have some they're all underclassmen, so nobody knows them because
Speaker 4: they're not in the draft here. But they have some
Speaker 4: up and coming wide receivers. That's a guy'd be interested
Speaker 4: in bringing in. I don't know how connected he is
Speaker 4: to Sean Jefferson. That's another name though. If it's if
Speaker 4: it's McDaniels, I'm looking at wide receivers coach. If it's not,
Speaker 4: you're looking at that pipeline. But there's some really good
Speaker 4: pipeline names out there.
Speaker 2: So my first of all, I'm a huge fan of
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels. Yeah, And I don't mean to like put
Speaker 2: my nose up to people right now, but I can
Speaker 2: tell a lot of people that are negative on Josh
Speaker 2: McDaniels don't necessarily think the game through like the lens
Speaker 2: of a coach, because I can tell you talking to
Speaker 2: coaches around the league, Josh McDaniels is a mother to
Speaker 2: go up again.
Speaker 4: So I'll say this about Josh McDaniels, and you tell
Speaker 4: me if I'm off base. There are things he does
Speaker 4: as an offensive coordinator that bug me certainly. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 4: take those things though, Like, I'll deal with that, Like
Speaker 4: his play sequencing gets annoying sometimes obviously the third long
Speaker 4: shotgun runs, like sometimes he feels a little situationally conservative.
Speaker 4: I'll deal with that for all the positives he brings
Speaker 4: versus like most of like some of these stuff other
Speaker 4: offense coordinators do where they just get too cute with
Speaker 4: it or this and that. McDaniels isn't perfect, but when
Speaker 4: you actually step back and look at the big picture,
Speaker 4: the stuff that it annoys you about him is really
Speaker 4: not that bad because he compensates for it so significantly
Speaker 4: in other ways.
Speaker 2: He's an excellent, excellent coordinator. He's not a good head coach.
Speaker 2: We know that, but we're not hiring, right, those are
Speaker 2: two different things. I hire him to be the head Guys, we.
Speaker 4: Discussed last week, we're hiring somebody to be the head coach.
Speaker 4: He became the head coach. Now you're hiring somebody to
Speaker 4: be the head coordinator. That person is not going to
Speaker 4: be the head.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he's a really good coordinator.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest things with McDaniel's his experience is really,
Speaker 2: I guess just comforting in a way a lot like
Speaker 2: Rabel's experience is comforting because you're handing this coordinator a
Speaker 2: twenty two year old franchise potential quarterback, right, and Drake
Speaker 2: May has all of the bells and whistles to be
Speaker 2: a great quarterback in this league. But he's not a
Speaker 2: finished product. He still has a ways to go. He
Speaker 2: still has to you know, figure out that line to
Speaker 2: cut down on turnovers and but still be aggressive. Was
Speaker 2: it aggressive but not reckless?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, he said, you said with the math.
Speaker 4: That made me feel things when I heard a great
Speaker 4: How many times have I come on the show, Evan,
Speaker 4: whether we're talking about Drake may or some other quarterback instead,
Speaker 4: aggressive but not recons so aggressive?
Speaker 3: That was a great You know, he still has ways
Speaker 3: to go in those types of things.
Speaker 2: I still think he has a ways to go in
Speaker 2: certain things mentally too, you know, in terms of reading
Speaker 2: coverage and uh setting you know, things at the line
Speaker 2: of scrimmage and all, you know, all things that young
Speaker 2: quarterbacks have to learn. Like, I'm not saying that Drake
Speaker 2: is behind or like different than other guys.
Speaker 3: It's just right.
Speaker 2: So there's still ways to go there. So as much
Speaker 2: as I would be excited about a Josh McCown or
Speaker 2: excited about bringing back a Nick Keyley, who I think
Speaker 2: has a great mix of of old and new, right,
Speaker 2: you know, he can surrun some of the Patriots stuff
Speaker 2: that they ran for years that was successful, but meld
Speaker 2: it with the mcveay stuff like, that's obviously extremely intriguing.
Speaker 2: Clint Kubiak is the name that people have thrown out
Speaker 2: that is from the Shanahan Gary Kubiak obviously his father.
Speaker 2: You know, like those guys like they're intriguing guys. Tommy
Speaker 2: Reese was an intriguing candidate. But all these guys you're handing,
Speaker 2: you know, Nick Keyley for example, just to use him,
Speaker 2: Nick Kelly has never coached quarterbacks before. So you're handing
Speaker 2: a second year quarterback in a big pivotal year of
Speaker 2: his development to an offensive guy. It's not Matt Patricia,
Speaker 2: but you're handing him to a guy that's never coached
Speaker 2: the position.
Speaker 4: Now, quarterbacks coach becomes incredibly important. And right that's where
Speaker 4: I liked Reese, though I wouldn't put Reese quite in
Speaker 4: that group because he is a quarterback.
Speaker 3: Guy, but he didn't coach.
Speaker 2: He coached quarterbacks in college. He coached tight ends last
Speaker 2: year for the Brown.
Speaker 4: He is a quarterback back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he is a quarterback, you know, yeah, not
Speaker 3: a good one, but he was a quarter Oh.
Speaker 4: Look, Jalen Milroe had his best season under Reese And
Speaker 4: I know some people breaking down on Jalen Millship.
Speaker 3: As sales, but.
Speaker 2: I just he's thirty two years old, Okay, Like he's
Speaker 2: a young guy. Josh McDaniels, you don't worry about any
Speaker 2: of that. Josh McDaniels is called plays in this league
Speaker 2: for two decades. He's worked with all sorts of quarterbacks
Speaker 2: that I understand that. You know, he has had varying
Speaker 2: degrees of success outside of Brady, some of it not
Speaker 2: so good, but he's worked with a bunch of different qbs.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the camm Newton offense in twenty twenty. Do
Speaker 2: I want Drake running like Cam Newton? No, because that
Speaker 2: Cam Newton's a different type of athlete, right, he's six six,
Speaker 2: two d and fifty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's a different type of dude. So you're
Speaker 3: not going to be ramming Drake.
Speaker 2: May into the line of scrimmage on the goal line
Speaker 2: like you were with Cam Newton.
Speaker 4: Could you use Joe Milton as a package player and
Speaker 4: May stop part of the offense, But no, I'm dead serious,
Speaker 4: Like that's something Josh would do too. Maybe can you
Speaker 4: have a Joe Milton package where you put him in there?
Speaker 4: And they go in that full house formation they had
Speaker 4: with Cam and when you're on the goal lineer, it's
Speaker 4: third and one and you run that stuff like Josh
Speaker 4: would do that. That to me seems like something Josh
Speaker 4: would do that. I don't know that some of these
Speaker 4: other guys would do. They get cute and put like
Speaker 4: the right tackle back there or something. So no like that.
Speaker 4: It's it's good to bring up because there is some
Speaker 4: relevance there.
Speaker 2: So my point being with McDaniels, if you're somebody that's like, oh,
Speaker 2: his offense is archaic, you know, it's his Stone age offense,
Speaker 2: and is he gonna be able to do some of
Speaker 2: the things that these new offensive coordinators like I heard
Speaker 2: Dan Rolovsky talking about, you know, the new age RPOs,
Speaker 2: the four by ones, like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: I would urge you to go watch.
Speaker 2: The twenty twenty Patriots, and I understand the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: Patriots fell apart and their offense wasn't great in terms of.
Speaker 3: The production much as anything else.
Speaker 2: But he had Cam Newton who couldn't throw anymore, and
Speaker 2: he had demere Bird as his top outside receiver.
Speaker 3: He did not have a ton of.
Speaker 2: Talent, was Ryan Is the top tight end. Ryan Is
Speaker 2: was the top tight end. Like they didn't have a
Speaker 2: ton of talent on that team. And the number one
Speaker 2: thing that I would point to, they were eighth in
Speaker 2: the league and rushing the football that year. They were
Speaker 2: a top ten rushing offense in twenty twenty with Cam Newton.
Speaker 2: So that shows me that he has the chops and
Speaker 2: he has it in his rolodecks on his menu. To
Speaker 2: be able to run design quarterback run, to be able
Speaker 2: to run RPO, to be able to run different gun variations.
Speaker 2: That all we're really talking about is making yourself more
Speaker 2: efficient in the gun because a lot of these young
Speaker 2: quarterbacks don't want to play from under center. So in
Speaker 2: order to make more out of the gun, you have
Speaker 2: to be more scheme diverse. You can't just have him
Speaker 2: drop back pass from the gun all the time like
Speaker 2: he's Tom Brady.
Speaker 3: It's not gonna work.
Speaker 2: So you have to add in things like window dressing,
Speaker 2: like motion, like read option, like RPO, all these different
Speaker 2: bells and whistles that teams use with Josh Allen, Jaden Daniels,
Speaker 2: you know, go on, Lamar Jackson, Like that's how you
Speaker 2: make it easier for the quarterback, So he's not Brady
Speaker 2: coming to the line of scrimmage looking at the defense,
Speaker 2: checking the play, making a perfect throw. Like, we don't
Speaker 2: have to do all that stuff because we have all
Speaker 2: this other scheme related we're weaponizing the scheme with all
Speaker 2: this other stuff. And I wouldn't jump to the conclusion
Speaker 2: that McDaniels doesn't have the ability to do that, but
Speaker 2: he just hasn't had the quarterback to do it with
Speaker 2: other than Cam. Right, you're not going to move the
Speaker 2: pocket with Tom Brady, no, right, Like you're not going
Speaker 2: to run a lot of boots and a lot of
Speaker 2: movement plays when you have Tom Brady as your quarterback.
Speaker 2: And this isn't a knock on Brady because he did
Speaker 2: a million other things amazing, right, but it just wasn't
Speaker 2: a stylistically different right, So I was, you know, just
Speaker 2: with McDaniels, he hasn't necessarily had a quarterback that has
Speaker 2: the skill set of Drake May that has that kind
Speaker 2: of tools. If you wanted to like put together the
Speaker 2: quarterbacks that he worked with, it was like Cam Newton's
Speaker 2: legs with you know, like you know, a good arm
Speaker 2: talent quarterback from the pocket. Then like maybe you could
Speaker 2: do it that way, but he's never had the complete
Speaker 2: package in terms of what everything is on the menu. Now,
Speaker 2: you know, you can run him, he can throw the ball,
Speaker 2: you can move him out of the pocket, like you
Speaker 2: can do anything you really want to do. And I
Speaker 2: watch a lot of the twenty twenty McDaniel's offense over
Speaker 2: the last couple of days with Cam. I saw a
Speaker 2: little bit of the Raiders offense. There's more of that
Speaker 2: stuff in his playbook that you just didn't call because
Speaker 2: it wasn't what you were ordering off the menu. With
Speaker 2: the quarterbacks he was working with, then maybe meets the eye,
Speaker 2: so as you can tell by all, like I would
Speaker 2: hire Josh McDaniels for this position. I just I really
Speaker 2: feel comfortable with McDaniels. You mentioned some of his awards,
Speaker 2: Like he's not perfect. I don't think that he's the
Speaker 2: most you know, motion heavy coordinator. You know, he runs
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a stagnant offense at least
Speaker 2: what he did you know with the Patriots and with
Speaker 2: the Raiders recently. But the one thing that really stands
Speaker 2: out to me is he's got that ability to take
Speaker 2: the twenty two to Cam Newton offense. Yeah, twenty twenty
Speaker 2: Cam Newton offense with like the rookie year Mac Jones
Speaker 2: and like a little bit of what he did in
Speaker 2: Vegas in twenty two and put those two things together.
Speaker 2: So now you have the drop back pass game of
Speaker 2: a Mac Jones of a Derek Carr with the run
Speaker 2: game of a Cam Newton, and that's really intrigued. Like that,
Speaker 2: If that's the way that they go, that's really intriguing.
Speaker 2: And you're giving your young quarterback to an experienced guy
Speaker 2: who were not worried about he's never called plays before,
Speaker 2: he's never worked with quarterbacks before, he's never coordinated in
Speaker 2: an offense before. We're not worried about any of those things.
Speaker 2: Like last year it was always Alex Van Pelts never
Speaker 2: called plays, So we're worried about that, right, we're worried
Speaker 2: about that sort of thing. If you hired a Josh
Speaker 2: McCown type pants guy, it's exciting. He's the new guy, right,
Speaker 2: he's a guy in town. He's never coordinated an offense before.
Speaker 2: So we don't know. We don't know how much of
Speaker 2: that offense is Kevin O'Connell. Probably a lot of it.
Speaker 4: Do you think they could drag mccount away in a
Speaker 4: lateral move. I would love from as the quarterbacks coach.
Speaker 2: So the issue, you know, with a lot of this,
Speaker 2: and you know when we start to put together staffs
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, it's not impossible, but we're crossing.
Speaker 2: We're crossing languages here, right, Like Josh McDaniels will be
Speaker 2: ep guy. Right, he's gonna come in and run aera
Speaker 2: Harp Perkins. Josh McCown is a West Coast Tree type
Speaker 2: of guy, right, Kevin O'Connell, you know, same thing would
Speaker 2: would be said for a lot of those guys that
Speaker 2: you know, Clint Koobiak, you know, any one of these
Speaker 2: guys that we've thrown out. So if you want to
Speaker 2: stick to the EP system and the roots of the
Speaker 2: McDaniels system, then you got to get McDaniel's guys to
Speaker 2: coming coach quarterbacks, right, you got to get guys that
Speaker 2: understand j Bart come in there.
Speaker 3: It's possible.
Speaker 2: You know, Lions like run some stuff that is The
Speaker 2: Lions offense is kind of Schmorgas port of everything. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a little bit of RAMS, it's a
Speaker 2: little bit of EP in terms of their protections and
Speaker 2: their rules up front, so you could maybe do something
Speaker 2: like that. I hear what you're saying. No, like a
Speaker 2: kind of younger, more up and coming. Yeah, good, be
Speaker 2: underneath Josh.
Speaker 4: So let me give you two more names that I'm
Speaker 4: curious about. I don't know how realistic either of these are,
Speaker 4: but I think they're worth discussing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Bill O'Brien is obviously at BC Zano Chefter a couple
Speaker 4: weeks ago said he likes it there, but he didn't
Speaker 4: like entirely rule out that he wouldn't take a call
Speaker 4: from the NFL called right in to talk to Rabel
Speaker 4: and EEI the other day. That one's kind of interesting
Speaker 4: to me, And that wouldn't be with Josh. That would
Speaker 4: be I mean, you're hiring his offense coordinator. And the
Speaker 4: other one is where's alex man Pelton? All this? He's
Speaker 4: not going back to Cleveland. We know that because Tommy
Speaker 4: Reese is there. Is he gonna get another offense coordinator job?
Speaker 4: Which I think he could, but if he doesn't, and
Speaker 4: I know you talked about crossing languages, but part of
Speaker 4: me is like, I just think Van Pelt's a fantastic teacher. Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: that's a great teacher, So could you have him? Could
Speaker 4: you kind of lock him in a room with McDaniels
Speaker 4: for a week, have McDaniel's drill everything to him, and
Speaker 4: now he gets to keep working with Drake may on
Speaker 4: some the technique stuff and some of the fundamental stuff.
Speaker 4: But would he take a demotion here or at that
Speaker 4: point is it Well, I'm going to be a quarterbacks
Speaker 4: coach him to go somewhere else, so it's not a demotion.
Speaker 4: Like to get what I'm saying, where does he fit
Speaker 4: in all this?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: My concern with mixing guys from different trees is that
Speaker 2: a lot of the way that these offenses are designed.
Speaker 2: It's not so much that I don't think Alex van
Speaker 2: Pel could learn the verbiage of Josh mcdaniels's playbook, but
Speaker 2: a lot of the way these offenses are designed are
Speaker 2: so that the quarterback mechanics tie together with the offense. Right,
Speaker 2: so like the left foot forward stuff and the rhythmic
Speaker 2: of the passing game in the West Coast offense that
Speaker 2: AVP runs, all of that is tied together to the
Speaker 2: routes so that they're tethered together.
Speaker 3: So his drop back is timed up with his reads
Speaker 3: and the routes.
Speaker 2: So now when you start to rewrite all of that,
Speaker 2: it starts to change in terms of like the timing
Speaker 2: of everything starts to change, you know, the cadence, timing,
Speaker 2: the drop back. So if he's gonna if McDaniels is
Speaker 2: coming here, it's gonna change all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: So you're not really.
Speaker 2: Doing AVP it's work anymore. You understand what I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm getting at. Yeah, So with AVP, I guess like
Speaker 2: my question was, is and I wrote this when I
Speaker 2: wrote My coordinators before candidates, before Reese took the Browns job,
Speaker 2: is like, would you hire a guy like Tommy Reese
Speaker 2: as the offensive coordinator and then try to convince Alex
Speaker 2: van Pelt to stay on as like a senior offensive
Speaker 2: like in the van mcadee role, right, like, as like
Speaker 2: a senior offensive assistant work with Drake May. You're still
Speaker 2: going to speak the West Coast language. So we're not
Speaker 2: changing playbooks necessarily, We're just bringing in a Tommy Rees
Speaker 2: to update and just kind of innovate the offense a
Speaker 2: little bit, living up the scheme and the play design
Speaker 2: a little bit more. Is there a possibility if you
Speaker 2: want to go that direction of Clint Kubiak, Josh McCown,
Speaker 2: Nick Kayley, Mike Lafleur, like coming in and being the
Speaker 2: tight pants guy with Alex van Pelt on their staff.
Speaker 2: I think that would be more realistic and just based
Speaker 2: off of what Rabel has done in the past, being
Speaker 2: a West Coast offense basically all throughout Tennessee his time
Speaker 2: with the Titans, that would make a lot of sense
Speaker 2: to me. You know, you have to pitch Alex van
Speaker 2: Pelt on it.
Speaker 3: I don't know how.
Speaker 4: It's just tough. If like, if I'm in his shoes,
Speaker 4: what would I do? It's tough to say.
Speaker 2: So he can't go back to Cleveland or you know,
Speaker 2: you don't think that he can go back to Cleveland.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he could go back to.
Speaker 2: Cleveland as a position coach or something like that if
Speaker 2: he really wanted to, but that's sort of off the table.
Speaker 2: Where else would you like? Maybe back to Green Bay?
Speaker 2: You know, you know, where else are you going?
Speaker 4: You got to look at it in the track. I mean,
Speaker 4: just assuming that he wants to be a head coach, right,
Speaker 4: because that's what the majority of these guys want, and
Speaker 4: I don't I know, he's a little bit older. I
Speaker 4: don't think he's at the age where he like, it's
Speaker 4: not like seventy right, and it's like, well, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: be a coordinator. That's just it. You know what gets
Speaker 4: you closer to head coach? Is it? Because there's there's
Speaker 4: the image that the league is going to have if
Speaker 4: you take what might be a demotion here to go
Speaker 4: to quarterbacks coach, if you go somewhere else and be
Speaker 4: a quarterbacks coach, well, now you've taken you haven't directly
Speaker 4: taken atomotion, but you're gonna have the same success elsewhere
Speaker 4: without Drake May What quarterback you're gonna be working with?
Speaker 4: Do you go out in the league and do you
Speaker 4: go do media for a year or two and then
Speaker 4: try to work your way back in that way?
Speaker 3: You know it?
Speaker 4: I feel bad for him because this is a second
Speaker 4: year in a row that he's kind of ended up with.
Speaker 4: He did a well, I don't I wouldn't say got
Speaker 4: scapegoated because the entire staff just got let go.
Speaker 3: But he but he was scapegoaded in Cleveland.
Speaker 2: He was a.
Speaker 4: Scapegoating Cleveland, right, And I was gonna say, this is
Speaker 4: the second year in a row and he's been fired.
Speaker 4: He's been let go for different reasons. We think he's
Speaker 4: been let go. I guess I should say he's still
Speaker 4: technically employed. But yeah, if they go another direction offensive coordinator.
Speaker 4: This is a second year row in a row. He's
Speaker 4: done a good job and lost his job. So it's
Speaker 4: it's a really tough spot for him to be in.
Speaker 4: I would love to see them, you know, the senior
Speaker 4: advisor thing, if it is going to be a West
Speaker 4: Coast amends. Honestly, even if it's not, just to keep
Speaker 4: him in the building. Just whatever he did last year,
Speaker 4: he clearly his messaging worked for Drake May, it weren't
Speaker 4: for for both quarterbacks, right, it's not just the West
Speaker 4: Coast technique of it all, Like he reached these guys,
Speaker 4: and to just have him in the building as almost
Speaker 4: a translator, yeah, for the quarterbacks or something like that.
Speaker 4: I would love to see them keep him around in
Speaker 4: that role. You mentioned the analytics stuff with Rabel, Let's
Speaker 4: get that well, no, no, no, just just as kind of
Speaker 4: an aside. Another thing that you know, you wonder if
Speaker 4: he took from that is a lot of those teams,
Speaker 4: the teams that preach analytics, they have big coaching staffs. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's something they believe in. Is Rabel going to be
Speaker 4: one of these guys? Even last year it was a
Speaker 4: bigger staff than Bill, it was still one of the
Speaker 4: I think there were was about middle of the league
Speaker 4: in terms of the size of the coaching staff. It
Speaker 4: wasn't big, it wasn't small, but it wasn't big. Is
Speaker 4: Rabel going to be a guy who's going to have
Speaker 4: a big coaching staff, because you know, if you're trying
Speaker 4: to keep it limited and say we don't want too
Speaker 4: many cooks in the kitchen, we want define blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: you're probably not gonna do this with Van Pell. If
Speaker 4: he's somebody coming in and saying, no, we're gonna have
Speaker 4: the number of people in here that we need like
Speaker 4: to do this, then you maybe look at Van Pelt
Speaker 4: for role like that. So it'll be really interesting. But
Speaker 4: one way or the other, even if it is McDaniels,
Speaker 4: I would love to see them try to find a
Speaker 4: way to even just in the short term, you know,
Speaker 4: year or two, keep Alex van Pelt in the building.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess I I mean, we can we
Speaker 2: don't have to get up bogged down by the Samanas.
Speaker 2: I don't think you need Alex Vampeller with McDaniels is here,
Speaker 2: But if they do high.
Speaker 4: I don't think you need him, but I don't think
Speaker 4: would be a bad thing to keep him around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just worry. I just don't see how it.
Speaker 2: I don't see how it pertains. Like I don't like
Speaker 2: it's like an It's like an algebra course with a
Speaker 2: calculus teacher, right like you just you're you're teaching two
Speaker 2: different things. But regardless of that, that's like not here
Speaker 2: nor there so much if they hire one of these guys,
Speaker 2: that's not we don't say they don't hire McDaniels, and
Speaker 2: they're gonna hire one of these up and comers, like
Speaker 2: a Nick Kyley, like a Josh McCown, like one of
Speaker 2: these types of people. I'm going to Alex van Pelt
Speaker 2: and I'm saying, listen, we need some We need to
Speaker 2: be a little bit more innovative on offense, we need
Speaker 2: to liven up the scheme, we need to be a
Speaker 2: little bit fresher in terms of what we're doing schematically
Speaker 2: and play design wise offensively.
Speaker 3: But we we love the work that you did with Drake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we know that Drake likes you, he trusts you,
Speaker 2: so we're gonna we want you to stay on to.
Speaker 3: Keep doing that type of stuff.
Speaker 2: Basically be the quarterbacks coach more or less. And you know,
Speaker 2: Josh mccow's got to design the offense, he's.
Speaker 3: Gonna call the plays.
Speaker 2: You, but you are gonna help a lot with the
Speaker 2: quarterback and let's just keep that part of it rolling.
Speaker 2: I would have loved that with Tommy Reese too, but
Speaker 2: now that that's off the table, I'm with you, like
Speaker 2: I think that with Nick Kaylee, I.
Speaker 3: Think is a really really strong duo to do that.
Speaker 2: You have a quarterbacks guy, and Alex van Pelt has
Speaker 2: experienced with these quarterbacks and working with these quarterbacks, and
Speaker 2: you have Nick Kaylee to come in here and design
Speaker 2: the place and run the offense and call the place.
Speaker 2: I would be on board with that as well. If
Speaker 2: they are going to go the more inexperienced route, though,
Speaker 2: I need Vampeld here, like I need somebody like that
Speaker 2: that I could sit here and say, Okay, that guy
Speaker 2: has has done it before with quarterbacks. He's been around
Speaker 2: the block, he knows what he's doing. I'm not handing
Speaker 2: Drake may A, first time everything, first time quarterback guy,
Speaker 2: first time play caller, first.
Speaker 3: Time ocie and just by himself. I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2: But if Alex van Pelt's here to like be a
Speaker 2: guide along the way, then then sure I'm with that.
Speaker 2: You mentioned analytics. I do want to go back to
Speaker 2: that here in a second, but quickly before we take
Speaker 2: all the calls and everything. I don't think that there's
Speaker 2: a ton of It's not as interesting to talk about
Speaker 2: the defense side of the ball and what's going.
Speaker 4: When he got hired Sunday, I was on the radio
Speaker 4: with Matt McCarthy and we did the whole office corner,
Speaker 4: I think, goes, who do you like for defense coordinators?
Speaker 4: Like I honestly never thought it. I was so focused
Speaker 4: on Ben Jonson defensive coordinators.
Speaker 2: I never thought of yeah cool, because honestly it matters,
Speaker 2: of course, like it doesn't.
Speaker 4: I want it to be Mike Rabel's defense. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: want him to be in charge like Patrick Graham is
Speaker 4: the kind of layup named yeah right, but yeah, I
Speaker 4: this was one of the big problems with girod Mayo
Speaker 4: was he wasn't doing enough on the day to day.
Speaker 4: He was trying to be a week to week coach,
Speaker 4: not a day to day coach, and you need a
Speaker 4: day to day coach, especially with a young team. I
Speaker 4: want Rabel there on the sidelines with the whiteboard, in
Speaker 4: the huddle, like after the defense comes off. I wanted
Speaker 4: to be his unit. And maybe he's not calling the plays,
Speaker 4: but like I want him to be the one that's
Speaker 4: handing the play sheet to the defensive coordinator right and
Speaker 4: say this is what we worked on all week. I
Speaker 4: want him to be able to jump in on third
Speaker 4: downs and say, hey, I'm making this call. Things like that. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: you're right, it's not honestly special teams. One's more interesting
Speaker 4: to me, of course, because well no, because of course
Speaker 4: it is. I thought that they really made strides on.
Speaker 3: Tom Quinn was with him in Tennessee.
Speaker 4: Right. So the question is, does he look at Tom
Speaker 4: Quinn and say, I'm making you my guy because we
Speaker 4: worked together in Tennessee, yeah, Or does tom Quin maybe
Speaker 4: go to him and say, hey, me and Springer, we
Speaker 4: did a good thing going last year. Let's just not
Speaker 4: like I'm fine being the assistant. Let's just not touch it. Yeah, right,
Speaker 4: So because I we all said this at the end
Speaker 4: of the year. Like oddly enough, Springer was the one
Speaker 4: guy we sort of looked at and said, yeah, he's
Speaker 4: probably good, like you should say so, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think you know, Tom Quinn was a big part of
Speaker 3: what they did, right, so experience.
Speaker 4: I would love to see them run it back on
Speaker 4: special teams.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd be less okay with that.
Speaker 2: I a defensive coordinator, you know, I'm a big fan
Speaker 2: of lou Ana Rumos. So if they if they went
Speaker 2: after big Lou, I would be all for it.
Speaker 3: But that's his defense, right, don't you think so?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Don't you think Louien and Romo is gonna want
Speaker 4: to go somewhere where like he's the head coach of
Speaker 4: the defense kind of thing.
Speaker 3: I would imagine.
Speaker 2: So, But there is a lot of overlap between what
Speaker 2: the Patriots and what the Titans and what the Bengals
Speaker 2: have done schematically from a defensive perspective, I'd actually think
Speaker 2: that that would work in terms of those two systems
Speaker 2: coming together.
Speaker 3: But he I just think he's a great coach, right, I.
Speaker 4: Know, I don't get you're wrong.
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 4: I would take him one hundred percent. I would take him.
Speaker 4: But if i'm him I'm looking like I want to
Speaker 4: go somewhere where it's clearly my show on defense, because
Speaker 4: does he still want to be a head coach? Right?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: I want to go somewhere where it's clearly my show
Speaker 4: on defense where there's nobody I'm not answering to anybody
Speaker 4: in that regard, and then so that way in a
Speaker 4: year or two, like I can get a head coach.
Speaker 4: If he's here, there's always gonna be the question, and
Speaker 4: everybody knows what a great coach he is, But isn't
Speaker 4: there always gonna kind of be that well is it
Speaker 4: and rumo or is it vable sort of thing? So
Speaker 4: I just I don't know. I don't see what the
Speaker 4: draw is. And there's not a lot of talent here
Speaker 4: for him to work with, and he just dealt with that.
Speaker 4: And that's why I got fired in Cincinnati because there's
Speaker 4: a talent trained on the defense. It's not because he
Speaker 4: was doing a bad job. So what's the draw for
Speaker 4: him to come here?
Speaker 3: That's fair?
Speaker 4: Right? I don't get me. I I'd love to talk to.
Speaker 3: I think his name has to be mentioned because he's
Speaker 3: a great coordinator.
Speaker 4: Fair fair. If i'm him, I'm like, uh, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I got five other interviews.
Speaker 5: I'm good.
Speaker 2: I would say Patrick Graham is in the same category
Speaker 2: I think Patsa.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think Patrick Graham is a.
Speaker 4: Guy that he at least has the familiarity with Rabel.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, but he's he's getting head coaching interviews
Speaker 2: this cycle already. Yeah, And so I would imagine that
Speaker 2: he's another one of those guys that wants ownership of
Speaker 2: the defense so that he can flex that he's running
Speaker 2: that side of the ball when it comes to interviews
Speaker 2: in the future. So you know, Shane Bowen is his
Speaker 2: guy from Tennessee. He's with the Giants right now. It
Speaker 2: sounds like he's going to stay with the Giants at
Speaker 2: least for the time being. So I find those ones
Speaker 2: interesting just a little bit though, because if you're in
Speaker 2: the other name I i'd put in this category is
Speaker 2: a more experienced guy. Jim Schwartz has like a long
Speaker 2: relationship with Rabel, going back to being on his staff
Speaker 2: in Tennessee as a senior advisor.
Speaker 3: And all that type of stuff.
Speaker 4: So I think Jimmy Stewart threw that name out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim Schwartz and Shane Bowen just putting those two
Speaker 2: names together for a second, if you go to those
Speaker 2: two guys, if you're Vrabel and I understand that he's
Speaker 2: got a relationship probably with Dable and Kevin Stefanski, So
Speaker 2: you have to be careful.
Speaker 3: You phrase this.
Speaker 2: But what are the odds that they're sitting here next
Speaker 2: year without jobs because their two head coaches just got
Speaker 2: blown out in New York and in Cleveland?
Speaker 3: Pretty high?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty high that that job in Cleveland and
Speaker 2: that job with the Giants does not have a whole
Speaker 2: lot of staying power. Rabel's getting multiple years to try
Speaker 2: to fix this here.
Speaker 3: They just want and done to coach.
Speaker 2: It's not happening again, So he's getting multiple chances from
Speaker 2: the Crafts to build this here. So if you're Shane
Speaker 2: Bowen and you can go next year with the Giants
Speaker 2: have all the same issues you just had last year
Speaker 2: that was not a very good football team, just like
Speaker 2: the Patriots, and then potentially run the risk of getting
Speaker 2: fired in a year when Dable gets blown out if
Speaker 2: they stink again, then you could come here. You probably
Speaker 2: have two or three years of job security here at
Speaker 2: the very least, and maybe a decade if it goes well, Right,
Speaker 2: so at.
Speaker 4: That point you hope you can hire Aways a head coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So that would just be a pitch I
Speaker 2: would maybe try to make. Bowen is you know, an
Speaker 2: intense guy, fired up guy. You can see him on
Speaker 2: hard knocks. He's like one of those types of coaches, right,
Speaker 2: He's gonna make you want to run through a brick wall.
Speaker 2: Jim Schwartz is a mastermind. He's he's an experienced mastermind,
Speaker 2: awesome pressure coach, like great at press, scheming up pressure,
Speaker 2: and designing pressure. He's one of the best in the
Speaker 2: league on the defense side of the ball. Like I said,
Speaker 2: he's been with Rabel in Tennessee. I think it was
Speaker 2: for maybe two years as a senior advisor on the
Speaker 2: defensive side of the ball, and that staff I.
Speaker 3: Would just pitch them.
Speaker 2: And there's then there's some other names that are some
Speaker 2: of the up and coming guys that kind of like
Speaker 2: the tight pants equivalent on the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 2: That if it is truly going to be Rabel's defense,
Speaker 2: then maybe he develops a coach instead, like I think Rabel,
Speaker 2: not that just as an example, but like if Rabel
Speaker 2: was was with DeMarcus Comington last year like that, that
Speaker 2: might have worked out better, right when you have like
Speaker 2: a more experience as head coach that is running the
Speaker 2: defense side of the ball, done it before, whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: that type of guy. So you know there's some names
Speaker 2: out there. I'm gonna butcher this one name, so I
Speaker 2: apologize in advance. Efraim Branda Banda who is on the
Speaker 2: head coaching track.
Speaker 3: He's one name.
Speaker 2: Brandon Lynch, Chris Harris, a couple of other names there
Speaker 2: on the defense side of the ball that have connections
Speaker 2: to Rabel that you know could potentially come over. Treil
Speaker 2: Williams into Shad Townsend are the two guys in Detroit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one of those guys I would assume is going to
Speaker 2: take over for Aaron Glenn when he gets a job
Speaker 2: this cycle. But maybe the other guy that doesn't get
Speaker 2: it is going to be out, you know, and maybe
Speaker 2: he's gonna be looking for a job. So those would
Speaker 2: be the guys that I would throw out as like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's the tight pants equivalent on defense. Rabel's really gonna
Speaker 2: be the guy that's running the defense, but we're going
Speaker 2: to train this guy to maybe take on more responsibility
Speaker 2: as we go here. But yeah, I'm not as interested
Speaker 2: in that side of the ball. But there's a couple
Speaker 2: of names on that side coaching wise, you know, Mike Pelgrino,
Speaker 2: I think that we would all both be interested in retaining.
Speaker 4: Him absolutely, And UNC just hired the cornerbacks coach from Washington,
Speaker 4: Washington like, he's one of the bigger names coming up
Speaker 4: on the on that side of the ball in college.
Speaker 4: So I don't know, maybe they're still a job for
Speaker 4: Pelagreno there with Bill, but defensive backs coach is taken.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so uh yeah, I think that that's a possibility
Speaker 2: that he goes younger on the defensive side of the
Speaker 2: ball and tries to train that guy up. Last thing
Speaker 2: here and then we'll do the second hour, we'll do
Speaker 2: some draft, we'll do some whatever your phones and emails,
Speaker 2: you guys want to talk about.
Speaker 3: I do want to talk about.
Speaker 2: The analytics thing for a second, because we got it,
Speaker 2: you know, I gotta scratch the stitch. I I was
Speaker 2: so encouraged by what I heard from Vrabel in terms
Speaker 2: of applying analytics to personnel.
Speaker 3: I'm with you, not one hundred.
Speaker 2: I I catch some people by surprise that I am
Speaker 2: not in love with the fourth down decision making route
Speaker 2: in terms of analytics. I don't want to just follow
Speaker 2: the math when it comes to those teens.
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not like that. People may misunderstand me.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not with that because I do hear the bill
Speaker 2: argument of well, what are the what's the situation, who
Speaker 2: are you playing, what's the weather, what's the flow of
Speaker 2: the game?
Speaker 4: For years. I've been telling you this for years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have never disagreed with you on this.
Speaker 4: You just think that that applies to more than just
Speaker 4: fourth down.
Speaker 3: You just you misunderstand me.
Speaker 2: What I am very very encouraged by was his answer
Speaker 2: to we I yesterday about how they were going to
Speaker 2: apply analytics to player personnel, to scouting, to talent evaluation.
Speaker 2: So when we talk about that side of the street,
Speaker 2: we're talking about in game tracking data. You know, the
Speaker 2: chips and the pads that track miles per hour and
Speaker 2: eletion and the ability to transition whether you're a receiver
Speaker 2: at the top of the route or a dB mirroring
Speaker 2: a receiver at the top of the route, top speed,
Speaker 2: average speed, all those different types of things. The teams
Speaker 2: that are winning in the NFL are all using this data.
Speaker 2: They're all using this data to evaluate talent and to
Speaker 2: evaluate players in the draft and even in pro personnel
Speaker 2: and free agency. The Chiefs, the Bills, the Eagles, the Lions,
Speaker 2: like these teams are all at ms. RAMS are all
Speaker 2: at the forefront of doing all these things. The Patriots
Speaker 2: are way way behind because when they had Bill Belichick,
Speaker 2: it was all just in Bill's mind, right, and he
Speaker 2: had that ability because he's special, but not everybody does.
Speaker 4: Most people don't.
Speaker 2: So the Patriots need to update this part of their
Speaker 2: football operations. They need to come up to the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five way of doing things. And the RAMS,
Speaker 2: to me, are the perfect example because who's the I'll
Speaker 2: look it up in a second when I pass it
Speaker 2: to you. The analytics guy for ESPN. He released the
Speaker 2: list every single year of all the analytics departments across
Speaker 2: the league and who's staffed and who you know, how
Speaker 2: many people they do staff. The Rams have two people
Speaker 2: on staff that are their chief analytics guys. So it's
Speaker 2: not like it's this like ten person staff like it
Speaker 2: is in Cleveland. It's just two people. But the Rams
Speaker 2: don't even go to the combine. They don't even go
Speaker 2: to the combine because they don't waste their time with
Speaker 2: the forty anymore, or with the short shuttle or the
Speaker 2: three cone or anything like that. They do the interview
Speaker 2: side and the medical side, but they don't they don't
Speaker 2: pay any attention whatsoever to the on field stuff. So
Speaker 2: I'll give you a couple of examples that where it
Speaker 2: worked out. Pukaniku the big everybody points souk is the
Speaker 2: big one, but I would also say Kyron Williams they're
Speaker 2: running back, is another one who did bomb the combine,
Speaker 2: but is a great football athlete, is a great football
Speaker 2: player and a guy that you loved cam Kinchines right
Speaker 2: still do Yeah, good.
Speaker 4: Football player want him so big?
Speaker 2: So those are the three like kind of skill position guys.
Speaker 2: And this is you know, mostly what we're talking about,
Speaker 2: right is the skill positions. Uh but pokin is the
Speaker 2: big one. And there's actually a clip of Sean McVay
Speaker 2: and Less Sneed talking about Pokinakua and uh Les Sneed says, uh,
Speaker 2: if I sort the spreadsheet by my top speeds, then
Speaker 2: he's one of the fastest receivers in the draft. And
Speaker 2: Pukka ran like a four or five something and wasn't
Speaker 2: a good time speed guy. And then you get into
Speaker 2: the game and you can see how good he is
Speaker 2: and how athletic he is, and uh, he's plenty fast
Speaker 2: enough to win at the NFL level. So the Rams
Speaker 2: are like kind of the poster child for it right
Speaker 2: now because of these clips you know, from there behind
Speaker 2: the scenes stuff. But all these teams that are are
Speaker 2: are at the you know, the top of the top,
Speaker 2: that are scouting at the best you know, across the league,
Speaker 2: they're all using this data. They're all using analytics. And
Speaker 2: the example that I would give is like for us,
Speaker 2: you know, we want to make good content, right, we
Speaker 2: want to make content that we think is good. We
Speaker 2: want to make content what we think is interesting to people.
Speaker 3: But we also have to.
Speaker 2: Answer to engagement clicks numbers, like that's just our business, right,
Speaker 2: because that's the tangible evidence of what you're doing is working.
Speaker 2: Is that type of thing that that's what analytics are
Speaker 2: in football. You still want to the film's still king,
Speaker 2: and you still want to make the pretty picture, but
Speaker 2: when it comes to what's tangible evidence that we can
Speaker 2: point to that this is successful and this is working,
Speaker 2: that's where the analytics come into mind. And if they're
Speaker 2: going to bring a lot of that analytics stuff to
Speaker 2: the Patriots personnel in their scouting process, all the power, like,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, Mike Rabel, please do that. And
Speaker 2: hopefully he maybe he's poached some guys from Cleveland to
Speaker 2: come do it for him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, I mean, this is where probably everybody expects
Speaker 4: me to go yell and scream about the math. I'll
Speaker 4: say this one, and I always say, it's about the draft.
Speaker 4: The Senior Bowl holds weight, especially for guys from smaller schools,
Speaker 4: but like the combine should never outweigh what the player
Speaker 4: did for four months from September to December, right right, Like,
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, you're drafting these guys.
Speaker 4: You're hiring these guys to play football. What do they
Speaker 4: look like as football players? So if a guy runs
Speaker 4: bad forty this is what I kind of kept saying
Speaker 4: about Cam Kitchens last year. It's not great, it factors
Speaker 4: into my evaluation. But I saw that guy for twelve
Speaker 4: games patrol the backs end of the defense for Miami,
Speaker 4: and I know what he can do. I know how
Speaker 4: he can cover ground on a football field. He had
Speaker 4: a bad day, like he ran a bad forty, gets
Speaker 4: one shot to prove how fast he is for his
Speaker 4: entire career. I've always thought that's ridiculous. I do still
Speaker 4: think there's value going to the combine because I think that,
Speaker 4: and this is where the math kind of loses it.
Speaker 4: How are guys operating in between the drills? How are
Speaker 4: guys you know, interacting with each other? How are they
Speaker 4: getting themselves ready immediately before the drill? How do they
Speaker 4: react after the drill? Like I think you learn about
Speaker 4: the person that way. I still think teams should go
Speaker 4: to the combine. I still think there's value in that.
Speaker 4: I think the rams are missing something there. What I
Speaker 4: will say when it comes to analytics and where I
Speaker 4: liked Rabel's answer, I've always said I like the tangible numbers, right,
Speaker 4: I like the numbers that actually mean something. To find something,
Speaker 4: you can point to me and say, there is that
Speaker 4: in action. A guy running twenty miles an hour is relevant.
Speaker 4: That is a tangible number. I am all on board
Speaker 4: for that, and say, good way to crosscheck. Oh hey,
Speaker 4: this guy ran a bad forty. Let's go look at
Speaker 4: you know what he was doing with pad on in
Speaker 4: the season and see if it reflects that. I think
Speaker 4: the same is true on the flip side. Oh this
Speaker 4: guy ran a great forty, but his numbers aren't as
Speaker 4: good in games. So he's track speed, but he's not
Speaker 4: really fast as a football player. I think kind of
Speaker 4: what happened with Taekwon Thornton. Yeah, so that like player
Speaker 4: tracking stuff, I'm all for. If they start using DVOA
Speaker 4: and EPA and all that, now you've lost me. No,
Speaker 4: now you've lost me, right or in all of that.
Speaker 2: As much as I love all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: NFL teams are not looking at that good.
Speaker 4: But if you're just telling me, hey, we want to
Speaker 4: actually see how fast this player ran on the field,
Speaker 4: yeah right, Yeah, they should be using that data. Because
Speaker 4: Bill Belichick could do that. There's many reasons Bill Belichick
Speaker 4: was the greatest coach of all time, but he could
Speaker 4: just one of them is I think he could just
Speaker 4: look at the film and sort of just know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I've.
Speaker 4: Always said that, Oh, Bill used the analytics.
Speaker 3: I think a.
Speaker 4: Lot of the stuff that people have to use analytics
Speaker 4: to find out, we're just common sense for Bill. So
Speaker 4: he might have been taking an analytical approach, but his
Speaker 4: brain was just a freaking supercomputer.
Speaker 2: Yes, but he also used analytics more for like value
Speaker 2: based stuff in terms of paying people, like free agents
Speaker 2: and things like that. A lot of his analytics and
Speaker 2: let him and already Adams put together besides the like
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, charting plays and personnel groupings and formations
Speaker 2: and things like that, that's like sort of a separate category.
Speaker 2: But then you know, in terms of the actual data
Speaker 2: side of it, they had models in terms of like
Speaker 2: this is what we think this player is worth, right, Like, ye,
Speaker 2: like he's worth ten, but he's getting twelve on the
Speaker 2: open market, and like how close are we going to
Speaker 2: get to that?
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 2: That's where they they didn't necessarily use like Zebra tech
Speaker 2: and next gen and all that kind of right.
Speaker 4: Well, but I'm more so saying like who was I
Speaker 4: wrote this a couple of years ago, Like Patriots draft
Speaker 4: picks had bad combines. Brandon Spikes, Yeah, I had like
Speaker 4: a really bad combine. But he's like one of the
Speaker 4: I think it's like the worst testing linebacker that you're
Speaker 4: across the board or he was it a couple of drills.
Speaker 4: Bill looked at him and said, nope, I've seen it
Speaker 4: on tape that I can play football. I'll take them.
Speaker 4: I think there's some nuts all, like, there's no whether
Speaker 4: Bill Belichick. Everybody is to look at that now and
Speaker 4: they need the data to help them figure it out.
Speaker 4: So if they're going to be using like player acquisition
Speaker 4: tracking data, I don't consider that analytics. To me, analytics
Speaker 4: is like the Bill James moneyball stuff with war and
Speaker 4: and these expected this and things like that EPOA tvo.
Speaker 4: Like you're never gonna sell me on that. You will
Speaker 4: never sell me on that. That's what I consider analytics.
Speaker 4: Just looking at how fast a player runs because he's
Speaker 4: a chip in his shoulder. I guess it is technically analytics,
Speaker 4: but to me, it's like, no, that's just factfinding.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like to call that like just player tracking.
Speaker 2: It's player tracking, right, but it's obviously it's it's it's organized.
Speaker 2: The data is organized by the analytics departments of these football.
Speaker 4: I get, like, I guess on a technicality, it's all right,
Speaker 4: So let.
Speaker 3: Me say that. I don't we don't need to get
Speaker 3: bogged out here.
Speaker 4: If it's if it's analytics, it's analytics, YEP, it's not
Speaker 4: the math. That is not what I would consider the math.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, And I don't
Speaker 2: we don't need to argue about the math of the seventeenth,
Speaker 2: one hundredth time of our lives.
Speaker 3: But sounds good. I definitely.
Speaker 2: I just look at it as they have all this data,
Speaker 2: they have all this stuff that's available to them that
Speaker 2: they are openly, willingly choosing to ignore, and all these
Speaker 2: other teams that are winning and are having success. And
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, like, I'm not saying that Andy
Speaker 2: Reid and Patrick Mahomes are successful because of analytics, right, Like,
Speaker 2: that's not what I'm saying. But a lot of what
Speaker 2: they're doing in Kansas City is analytically driven in terms
Speaker 2: of finding the fringe guys to help and supplement Patrick
Speaker 2: Mahomes and Andy Reid and Travis Kelsey Margins and Chris
Speaker 2: Jones and right.
Speaker 4: So what Rabel's all about, that's every it's used as
Speaker 4: a dirty term, like, oh, Rabel, get ready to win
Speaker 4: on the Margins. Yeah, all I heard is get ready
Speaker 4: to win. I'm good with that. I don't really care,
Speaker 4: how I really, I don't care if they win every
Speaker 4: game by one or whenever, game by forty. If they
Speaker 4: win every game. I'm happy.
Speaker 2: So the last thing I want to talk about when
Speaker 2: it comes to this analytics thing was the conversation that's
Speaker 2: going around Twitter. You got clipped, you got well, you
Speaker 2: got one already. You know, you do seventeen different media
Speaker 2: and things. You're about to get clipped and all the
Speaker 2: all the nerds, you know, all my people, my brethren
Speaker 2: are are piling on him a little bit because he
Speaker 2: dropped the stat of like teams that rush at more
Speaker 2: than forty times or one hundred and fifty five and
Speaker 2: two or whatever, and that's causation correlation like whatever, nerd, okay, whatever.
Speaker 2: But what I look at when it comes to the
Speaker 2: run game, and this is where I think you misunderstand
Speaker 2: me again. I'm not anti running the football. I'm anti
Speaker 2: running back, but I'm not anti running the football. But
Speaker 2: if you're gonna run the football, it's you're running with
Speaker 2: a purpose, right, So I'm running for two things. I'm
Speaker 2: running for explosives and I'm running to set up play action.
Speaker 4: You need you have an explosive running back.
Speaker 3: So that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not one of the people that will
Speaker 2: ever believe and we need to establish the run and
Speaker 2: we need to set a tone and we need to
Speaker 2: be the more physical team. Purpose no running with the
Speaker 2: purpose to me is you're running to set up things.
Speaker 2: You're running to hit bigger plays off of play action.
Speaker 2: You are running to, you know, make explosives in the
Speaker 2: run game on its own. You are running the football
Speaker 2: late in games because you have a two score lead
Speaker 2: and you're trying to milk clock. Like that is effective
Speaker 2: efficient running. If you go into football games and you
Speaker 2: think that if we run it forty times today, we
Speaker 2: are going to win. That that's that's antiquated, right, Like
Speaker 2: you're looking at it backwards. So the good teams, because
Speaker 2: I know you're gonna mention it, but the good teams
Speaker 2: like Detroit, like Baltimore, like Philadelphia that are run first teams, ye,
Speaker 2: are highly highly efficient.
Speaker 4: Passing teams have efficient passing team.
Speaker 2: The reason why they're so efficient passing the ball, though,
Speaker 2: is because a lot of what they do in the
Speaker 2: past game branches off their run game. So that's where
Speaker 2: the hand in hand goes together. I understand that he
Speaker 2: kind of got finger wagged for the stat that he dropped,
Speaker 2: but I actually understood the bigger picture conversation that he
Speaker 2: was trying to have maybe we look at it, you know,
Speaker 2: slightly differently from there. But I'm not like totally anti
Speaker 2: it what he said. I just hope that the point
Speaker 2: of the run game for him should be to set
Speaker 2: up the pass game and to and to close out games.
Speaker 4: Why can't be to set up the fast pass game
Speaker 4: and establish some sort of physicality.
Speaker 2: Because the establishing the physicality is not gonna win you jack.
Speaker 4: But if you, if you, if you come out early
Speaker 4: and you run the ball and you put body blows
Speaker 4: into that defensive front, it's gonna get a lot harder
Speaker 4: for them to rush. The quarterback is based off of
Speaker 4: what you're physically wearing them down.
Speaker 2: There's no proofer evidence of that. There's no proofer evidence
Speaker 2: that any of that has an effect on that. Now,
Speaker 2: what does have an effect is I said to him
Speaker 2: that my favorite run was Power. Right, So you come
Speaker 2: into the game and you run Power, and you pull
Speaker 2: the guard through and you get them up on the
Speaker 2: second level, and now all of a sudden, those linebackers
Speaker 2: and those safeties have to respect the poll and now
Speaker 2: you false pull them and then you hit the play
Speaker 2: action behind it that's going on.
Speaker 4: You don't think it's a little bit harder to chase
Speaker 4: Lamar Jackson around the backfield after Derek Henry just put
Speaker 4: his shoulder in your chest to play or two before.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it is like I've never I've never been there,
Speaker 2: so I'm not gonna sit here and act like it is.
Speaker 4: Look, I've never been there. But you know, you see
Speaker 4: how defensive line and react when team runs the ball
Speaker 4: a couple times in a row, they look kind of gassed.
Speaker 4: You only start getting little banged up. Maybe you have
Speaker 4: team subbing, but now you're getting good players off the field,
Speaker 4: So I think you can do And maybe that is
Speaker 4: in a sense that is running to set up the pass,
Speaker 4: So I guess it's not counter to you. But like
Speaker 4: when I when I hear that stat, right, that what
Speaker 4: is it? It's like if you throw more than forty
Speaker 4: five times in a game quarterbacks when twenty percent of
Speaker 4: the time outside Tom Brady, Yeah right, and then the
Speaker 4: inverse that one fifty five and two when you run
Speaker 4: X number of times. I think if you go into
Speaker 4: a game planning to run the ball forty times, you're
Speaker 4: kidding yourself. I think if you go into a game
Speaker 4: outside of very very specific examples, right the win game
Speaker 4: in Buffalo or twenty fourteen against Baltimore when they came
Speaker 4: out in the second half, just like, we're not gonna
Speaker 4: run the ball. Right outside of very very specific matchup examples,
Speaker 4: if you come into a game plan to plan to
Speaker 4: throw the ball forty times, you're kidding yourself. If you
Speaker 4: come into a game plan to run the ball forty times,
Speaker 4: you're kidding yourself. The best offenses do both. The best
Speaker 4: offenses are balanced. I don't think you can win in
Speaker 4: this league, however good that one dimension is. I don't
Speaker 4: think it's possible to win in this league at a
Speaker 4: high level as a one dimensional offense. There may be
Speaker 4: games here or there. Maybe you realize after one quarter, hey,
Speaker 4: we can't run the ball in these guys. We're gonna
Speaker 4: have to throw out forty times. Or you go into
Speaker 4: a game and you realize, hey, the conditions suck for throwing.
Speaker 4: We're gonna have to run this thing the rest of
Speaker 4: the way and get there. Like that might happen in
Speaker 4: moments as in game adjustments, But if you go into
Speaker 4: a game planning to be so heavy one way or
Speaker 4: so heavy the other, you go into a season planning
Speaker 4: to be so heavy one way or so heavy the other.
Speaker 4: You're kidding yourself. It's not gonna work ideally, Like you'd
Speaker 4: love to end every game running the football five ten
Speaker 4: times in a row, because it means you're up a
Speaker 4: couple of scores. You're trying to run the clock out.
Speaker 4: So if you end up running the ball forty times,
Speaker 4: like it might happen, or maybe you're.
Speaker 2: You you have to make this comebacking right, like you run.
Speaker 2: Like the reason why teams have such a great record
Speaker 2: and they run it forty times is because they're winning
Speaker 2: and you're not.
Speaker 4: If you're nuts, if you don't think Mike Rabeil understands that. No,
Speaker 4: I think I know not. The people on the internet
Speaker 4: think he doesn't understand it, and those people.
Speaker 2: Are fell into like a little coach speaking it's not
Speaker 2: that big.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, those those people claim to know football, but
Speaker 4: their noses too deep in Microsoft Excel. My point being,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I.
Speaker 3: When you sit there and you say these things, it's
Speaker 3: just the self aware you.
Speaker 2: Know exactly what I'm talking I know you what you're
Speaker 2: talking about, but you're saying it like somebody that that
Speaker 2: like is you do not use microsoftself what like you're
Speaker 2: saying it like you're Dan Campbell, Like you have to
Speaker 2: realize there.
Speaker 4: Doesn't use Microsoft. I think I can talk about not
Speaker 4: using Microsoft Excel. I think that's perfectly fair.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 4: The point being what I got from that from Rabel
Speaker 4: was there not gonna be a one dimensional offense. I agreed,
Speaker 4: And that's good because I think a lot of people
Speaker 4: wanted them to be a one dimensional offense. I think
Speaker 4: a lot of people wanted them to be We're gonna
Speaker 4: come out and Drake may is gonna throw it all
Speaker 4: over the yard and our runs are either gonna be
Speaker 4: designed quarterback runs or him scrambling, and that's not what
Speaker 4: it's gonna be. There is still gonna be a place
Speaker 4: for running the football, traditionally running the football. It's gonna
Speaker 4: be a I don't know significance the right word, but
Speaker 4: like a major part of the offense. It'll be as
Speaker 4: much a part of the offense as throwing the football.
Speaker 4: Good good. I don't want to see them become one dimensional.
Speaker 4: That's that's how you fail. You can't be one dimensional
Speaker 4: in the modern and the same thing applies to defensively too.
Speaker 4: But like you can't be one dimensional in the modern NFL.
Speaker 2: It's just if you're gonna be a run first team,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna be like the Detroit Lions, like the
Speaker 2: Baltimore Ravens, like the Philadelphia Eagles, and you're truly gonna
Speaker 2: be a run first football team, you have to when
Speaker 2: you do pass, you have to be damn good at passing.
Speaker 4: And what did Mike Crabiles say, we have to be
Speaker 4: in effective passing team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's just that's it, right, Like if you
Speaker 2: the dude, the Lions are twenty seventh in the league
Speaker 2: and early down pass rate, Yeah, twenty seven. They run
Speaker 2: the ball a ton work, they run the ball a
Speaker 2: ton but they're such a good passing game when they
Speaker 2: have to go to their passing game. And so we
Speaker 2: both agree with the same philosophy. You pass the score,
Speaker 2: you run to win, right, And if the Patriots still
Speaker 2: adhere to that and they get to forty carries because
Speaker 2: they're up a score or two late in the game
Speaker 2: and they're just you know, running it, running it, running
Speaker 2: it to milk the clock and close out games, great,
Speaker 2: Like that's exactly where you want to be as a
Speaker 2: team if you think that you're gonna get to that
Speaker 2: point where you're running clock late in games because you
Speaker 2: have a lead.
Speaker 3: By running the.
Speaker 2: Ball and setting the tone and establishing a run and
Speaker 2: being more physical and all that kind of stuff, you're
Speaker 2: gonna be four and thirteen, You're gonna be this the
Speaker 2: Patriots of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: I think there's more to the physicality element than you're
Speaker 4: litting on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we disagree on that part.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know football is a physical game.
Speaker 4: I guess that's a hot take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's but like, why does the physicality of
Speaker 2: the game only pertain to running the football?
Speaker 4: Running because it's run. Stopping the run is a much
Speaker 4: more physically demanding.
Speaker 2: Task for the front passive I would say pass blocking
Speaker 2: is is also physical, like you're passing.
Speaker 3: Pass blocking is not passive, like you gotta go.
Speaker 4: Pass blocking is not That's not what I said. I
Speaker 4: said Stopping a run is much more physically demanding for
Speaker 4: the defensive front. Is the offense You're trying to wear
Speaker 4: out the defensive front, And to your point.
Speaker 2: You think that it's but like, isn't it physically demanding
Speaker 2: in a different way? Like isn't chasing around the quarterback
Speaker 2: or trying to get off the ball and get around
Speaker 2: the edge.
Speaker 3: Like that's just it's just more like exclusively.
Speaker 4: You're not taking like the physical body blows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you see all the time, like you see
Speaker 2: pass rushers like wear out as games wear on because
Speaker 2: they are have been trying to.
Speaker 4: I think that's more of a gradual thing. Whereas like
Speaker 4: if you if you really punch the other team the
Speaker 4: mouth up front for the you look at the thirteen
Speaker 4: play all run drive from the Ravens, right, those guys
Speaker 4: about eight plays in that Steelers defense was tapped out.
Speaker 2: Okay, but how about you know, like if you got
Speaker 2: a receiver like AJ Brown or a receiver you know
Speaker 2: Dallas Goddard on Sunday when he's stiff arm and dudes
Speaker 2: like that's also physically hard, like to tackle guys in
Speaker 2: the secondary now it's all physically tough, like it's Sot's
Speaker 2: right exactly. So why does it just apply to the
Speaker 2: run game, Like why is it just hard to stop
Speaker 2: the run.
Speaker 4: Because if you because if you run the ball a
Speaker 4: few times, now, those guys are gassed more so than
Speaker 4: I think in the past game, especially early on. Right,
Speaker 4: I'm not talking about yes, if you throw the ball
Speaker 4: a bunch. The pass rushers get worn out in the
Speaker 4: fourth quarter. That's what happened twenty eight three. You run
Speaker 4: the ball a couple of times early on. Now those
Speaker 4: those defenders are gassed. It sets It's part of setting
Speaker 4: up the pass. Like to your point, it's part of
Speaker 4: how the run game sets up the pass. Like these
Speaker 4: guys are now because they're they're trying to tackle, they're
Speaker 4: trying to fight through double teams. They're trying, you know,
Speaker 4: they get knocked on their ass.
Speaker 3: Things like a really good way to keep the score down.
Speaker 4: I don't care if they win thirteen to six.
Speaker 2: If they win, I mean you have to care about
Speaker 2: that because they have to be able to play a
Speaker 2: different way.
Speaker 3: Your last year without.
Speaker 4: Scoring, did I not just say you cannot be one dimensioned?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you have to be in this league. You
Speaker 3: are going to have to outscore people.
Speaker 2: Yes, if they're going to try to win game seventeen
Speaker 2: to fourteen, that is a problem. They can't win that way.
Speaker 2: They basically have tried to win that I'm saying. But
Speaker 2: I'm not saying come out run the ball forty times.
Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying. You should not do. You should
Speaker 4: not plan going into the game if you end up
Speaker 4: running it forty you're.
Speaker 2: Doing by running the ball early on in games is
Speaker 2: shortening the game, that's all you're doing.
Speaker 4: Well, you know that's something that I'm actually big on personally.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's the problem. They've been trying to do
Speaker 2: that for three straight years.
Speaker 4: Well, a good team. Shortening the team is good. Shortening
Speaker 4: the game is good. But I there's something to be
Speaker 4: said about establishing the physicality, setting a tone, getting in
Speaker 4: a rhythm. We hear Lineman talk about that all the
Speaker 4: time too, Right, getting in a rhythm. You hit a
Speaker 4: couple of big runs, you hit a couple solid runs.
Speaker 4: Now the line's feeling it now in the defense is
Speaker 4: kind of back on their heels. And again it's that mentality.
Speaker 4: Now when you want to throw the ball, you have
Speaker 4: a established that advantage up front, and maybe that buys
Speaker 4: you more time in the past game or it gets
Speaker 4: guys cheating a little more on play action or things
Speaker 4: like that. This is you say you want to run
Speaker 4: to set up the pass, right, Yes, what does that
Speaker 4: look like? What is that's not just doing it to
Speaker 4: do it? There's something that actually happens. Sure to set
Speaker 4: up the pass but that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I.
Speaker 2: Don't think it's not a volume thing to me, right,
Speaker 2: It's it's a looks thing to me. It's I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about volume, but you are, though, because if you're
Speaker 2: talking about shortening games and things like that, you're talking
Speaker 2: about volvan.
Speaker 4: I'm talking about like in your in your opening ten playscript, Yes,
Speaker 4: have three or four good, punch them in the mouth
Speaker 4: runs in there. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Okay, But that's different than saying we need to establish
Speaker 2: the run. I think that's establishing the run by having
Speaker 2: three or four runs in a twenty playscript.
Speaker 4: If I said ten plays and if you hit them, well,
Speaker 4: if you execute them, well yeah you can. I think
Speaker 4: if you watch the playoff games last weekend, a couple
Speaker 4: big plays early, not even.
Speaker 2: Like explosive, but just like But I would argue in
Speaker 2: a lot of those playoff games, especially Buffalo, I would say,
Speaker 2: like they're.
Speaker 4: Buffalo's is so much more talented than Denver.
Speaker 2: Right, but they it took them until the second half
Speaker 2: to start to blow out Denver because of how they
Speaker 2: are playing in the first half. Like the I think
Speaker 2: I would say a lot of those games were closer
Speaker 2: than they should have been, Like I think Philly Green
Speaker 2: Bay was closer.
Speaker 4: I think Buffalo was just rusty because they didn't play
Speaker 4: last week essentially, like.
Speaker 2: I think that was I think Buffalo ran way too
Speaker 2: much in the first half of that game.
Speaker 4: I well, what's not to say that them running the
Speaker 4: ball in the first half is would allow them to
Speaker 4: pull away because they ran out. They ran out to Denver.
Speaker 2: There's like again, there's just no there's no tangible evidence,
Speaker 2: there's no But it's the sport because you're just saying that,
Speaker 2: like that's like you're you're you're saying that. That's like
Speaker 2: your your gut thing just says that that's true. Like
Speaker 2: there's so if they if Buffalo had come out in
Speaker 2: that game, like Denver could not score with you think
Speaker 2: Denver could not score with Bufffo. So if you just
Speaker 2: came out of that game and you threw the ball
Speaker 2: like it did when the Patriots went down, you know,
Speaker 2: to Buffalo in twenty twenty one, I.
Speaker 4: Also think that they were rusty. I also just think
Speaker 4: that Buffalo is rusty. But like you looked at look
Speaker 4: at the body language right after that thirteen play drive
Speaker 4: by the Ravens. The Steelers never mentally recovered from that,
Speaker 4: and I think it's because they're getting pushed around. And
Speaker 4: when you get knocked around a couple of times, you
Speaker 4: can't it's gonna be hard to come back up with
Speaker 4: that same little confidence. On the flip side, if you're
Speaker 4: an offensive lineman, you just knock these guys around three
Speaker 4: or four times in the first ten places, you're gonna
Speaker 4: be look at each other like, oh, we're feeling it today.
Speaker 4: Here we go. It's it's it's mental. It's mental as
Speaker 4: much as it is physical. But there is that physical
Speaker 4: demandingness that comes with I don't think that's that crazy
Speaker 4: of take.
Speaker 3: It's not. It's a it's an antiquated to take, it's
Speaker 3: not crazy.
Speaker 4: How how often do we talk about, oh, the offensive
Speaker 4: line is feeling it right there? The offense lines going.
Speaker 3: Out having success.
Speaker 4: So now I can't give you a math number exactly game.
Speaker 4: This game has been played for a long time. And
Speaker 4: when you look at teams start to run the football early.
Speaker 4: And I'm not talking about calling eight runs on your
Speaker 4: first ten plays. I'm talking about when you get.
Speaker 3: An offensive want to get them fired up.
Speaker 4: When you talk when you get an offensive line going early, right,
Speaker 4: that generally kind of carries through.
Speaker 3: Okay, So what a better way?
Speaker 4: A better way to get an offensive line going there
Speaker 4: running early, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Do you know who has confidence?
Speaker 2: Alex Mike Rabel has confidence and it's important to have
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Speaker 2: England Patriots. Let's get to the phones. I know you
Speaker 2: guys have been waiting. I appreciate it. Patty is an
Speaker 2: agu on what's up?
Speaker 3: Patty?
Speaker 4: Up? Jen?
Speaker 3: How are you doing?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 6: Doing all right? So I got kind of a convoluted question,
Speaker 6: but there with me. So, if indeed Josh McDaniel is
Speaker 6: the the next stuffensive coordinator, can you kind of see
Speaker 6: them sticking to some of the gap runs. And the
Speaker 6: reason why I asked is my favorite tackle coming out
Speaker 6: this year is actually Josh Connerly hevn't. I can't wait
Speaker 6: for you to watch them on this guy. He's but
Speaker 6: to me, like I think he's more in depth to
Speaker 6: play in that zone style, whereas like Banks might be
Speaker 6: able to you know, bridge both styles, because you know,
Speaker 6: he's he's kind of a a monster, you know. But
Speaker 6: h Connor is a really good athlete. And from everything
Speaker 6: that I've heard, like he's twenty he just turned twenty
Speaker 6: one years old. They don't think that he's hit his
Speaker 6: physical well, he hasn't hit his physical peak yet, but
Speaker 6: he's he's only been playing on the line for a
Speaker 6: few years because he was a running back in basketball player.
Speaker 6: So I just want to know, like if if they
Speaker 6: don't run any of those gaps teams, could you see
Speaker 6: him as a fit in the system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, day, thanks for the call, Patty, So thanks. In
Speaker 2: terms of Connorly, I have watched Connory. Yeah, I've seen
Speaker 2: a little bit of Connorly from the championship game, which
Speaker 2: was a Big Ten championship. What freaking conference is Oregon?
Speaker 2: And at this point Big ten championship game?
Speaker 4: Uh now, let me I should I guess I should
Speaker 4: check an update the way things are going right this morning.
Speaker 2: He's a very athletic guy, very toolsy, you know, still young,
Speaker 2: still raw. Like Patty talked about, not probably not you know,
Speaker 2: a traditional gap run to.
Speaker 3: He is more of like a high level pass a
Speaker 3: little more at.
Speaker 2: A little bit more athletic, but that's what you're looking
Speaker 2: for on the blind side with me, with Connorley just
Speaker 2: starting there, I just I wonder how hw his ceiling
Speaker 2: is in terms of where he goes in the draft,
Speaker 2: Like with a draft that has some question marks with
Speaker 2: certain tackles and you know, are they guards or whatever.
Speaker 3: He could go high, like he could.
Speaker 2: Be somebody that sneaks up into the late team's early twenties.
Speaker 2: I would say just based off the fact that he's
Speaker 2: got all the trades, he's got some good film against
Speaker 2: some good competition, you know, late in the season for Oregon.
Speaker 2: So I just worry about is he going to sort
Speaker 2: of be in that no man's land for the Patriots
Speaker 2: who have four and thirty eight? Like, how do you
Speaker 2: bridge the gap if he goes twenty, Like, you're not,
Speaker 2: You're not gonna be in the range for him.
Speaker 4: And that's where trading down comes in will be interesting
Speaker 4: him Arianta Urseres another guy like who are kind of
Speaker 4: in that same range. Good player, good player, But yeah,
Speaker 4: it's going to kind of be about where where do
Speaker 4: they land him. I still am and the camp of
Speaker 4: trade down especially. I don't know if you saw Dane
Speaker 4: Burglar's mock draft today, Yes, I said the son I
Speaker 4: like to. I do too. I didn't love it for
Speaker 4: the Patriots. That's not actually the point I wanted to make.
Speaker 4: I said this the other night on Twitter, and I
Speaker 4: think it's something we're gonna need to talk about quite
Speaker 4: a bit. His top three were cam Ward I think
Speaker 4: this is in ORR if I have it correctly, cam Ward,
Speaker 4: Abdull Carter and Travis Hunter. So like, I don't think
Speaker 4: the conversation is is Abdull Carter the best player on
Speaker 4: the Is Abdull Carter the right player for the Patriots
Speaker 4: at four? I think the real question is Abdual Carter
Speaker 4: going to be on the board at four for the Patriots?
Speaker 4: And you know, I asked that and a lot of
Speaker 4: people said, well, you draft Travis Hunter. I don't think.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 4: I think that there's a chance that you only have
Speaker 4: one quarterback go in in the top three, and it's
Speaker 4: Carter and Hunter with him. So now those two guys
Speaker 4: are off the board. So now what do you do?
Speaker 4: Do you take Teed McMillan at four? Do you take
Speaker 4: Kelvin Bankster, Will Campbell at four? Do you take Mason Graham?
Speaker 4: I still think moving down makes the most sense, and
Speaker 4: maybe that's you move the bridge the gap. Do you
Speaker 4: move from four to six? Out of know Evan, you
Speaker 4: tell me if this is an overpay by the Raiders,
Speaker 4: do you move from four to six and then get
Speaker 4: thirty seven? And that's the whole trade and you don't
Speaker 4: get in the future first, which would kind of suck,
Speaker 4: But you don't have a ton of leverage in a
Speaker 4: two quarterback draft, But now you have thirty seven and
Speaker 4: thirty eight in the second round, and you can do
Speaker 4: a lot with that, and you could package those two
Speaker 4: and probably get back up into the top twenty right
Speaker 4: around twenty. So it let's call twenty two to be
Speaker 4: just to split the difference. Would you rather pick and
Speaker 4: if you don't think it's a fair if you don't
Speaker 4: think the Raiders would do it, feel free to say that.
Speaker 4: But would you rather pick at four and thirty eight
Speaker 4: where you still maybe have a chance at Carter, or
Speaker 4: now you have no chance at Carter, but you're now
Speaker 4: picking at like six in twenty two?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if the Raiders would do that.
Speaker 3: I think it would. It would, Matt.
Speaker 2: You know, you tell me that these quarterbacks are gonna
Speaker 2: go higher than I think. So I guess if the
Speaker 2: Raiders are worried that somebody from behind them is going
Speaker 2: to jump them for Sir Door Sanders, and they want
Speaker 2: to make sure they have them sign sealed delivered by
Speaker 2: moving up the four, like I could see a trade
Speaker 2: like that happening. I would probably rather pick twice in
Speaker 2: the first round in this type of class. I feel like,
Speaker 2: there's gonna be some guys at in the twenties in
Speaker 2: this draft that are going to be really interesting players
Speaker 2: that probably aren't shore fire, blue chip and top of
Speaker 2: the line prospects, but have those types of traits like
Speaker 2: Connory Josh Simmons, who I know you're luke warmon, but
Speaker 2: if he's your second pick in the draft and other
Speaker 2: things happen in free agency, some of the receivers you know,
Speaker 2: a Mecca Abuka, Matthew Gold and Luther Burden, like those
Speaker 2: types of guys. I don't think those guys are top
Speaker 2: ten players in a draft, but you pick you know,
Speaker 2: Luther Burden at twenty two, like that makes sense. You know,
Speaker 2: that's right where the Ze Flowers JSN group went a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago that I can get on board with.
Speaker 3: And I do think that that helps you a lot.
Speaker 2: Whereas when you wait all the way to thirty eight
Speaker 2: to make your second pick in this draft, I think
Speaker 2: there's a pretty significant drop off because it's not a
Speaker 2: great top of the draft. The drop off there comes quick,
Speaker 2: and I think it's gonna come hard for a lot
Speaker 2: of teams. So if you're really looking for a guy
Speaker 2: that can make a day one impact, you're probably gonna
Speaker 2: have to move up from thirty eight to get that.
Speaker 4: Sh So moving down from four to then move up, Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, I don't think especially if Carter's not there
Speaker 4: at four, if Carter and Hunter are not there at
Speaker 4: for I don't know that you like, are Will Campbell
Speaker 4: and Calvin Bank's going, Well, they're not going like four
Speaker 4: your trading for quarterbacks, So you're gonna lose one guy
Speaker 4: at five. Now you're on the board at six. Now
Speaker 4: you're in great shape. So I still think trading back
Speaker 4: makes the most sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to the gap scheme question, if they hire.
Speaker 3: McDaniels, they're gonna run gap. Yeah, like that that that's
Speaker 3: always what he's done.
Speaker 2: That's always you know, outside zones obviously in his playbook
Speaker 2: and it's in his arsenal. But if they hire McDaniels
Speaker 2: in McDaniel's playbook, yeah, well that's Daniels' playbook. Is that,
Speaker 2: it's literally everything. If they're gonna hire McDaniels, they're gonna
Speaker 2: run Downhill at teams, they're gonna run Gap, they're gonna
Speaker 2: run Power, they're gonna run Counter, they're gonna run Iso,
Speaker 2: you know, lead full back dive, whatever you wanna call it.
Speaker 2: They're gonna run. Uh, They're gonna run all that type
Speaker 2: of stuff. They're gonna get downhill.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: If they go with one of these West Coast guys,
Speaker 2: and they're probably gonna stick to what Rabel did in
Speaker 2: Tennessee and run some outside zone and be a wide
Speaker 2: zone team, which is okay too. Like it doesn't it
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter now, assuming that you know it's not college.
Speaker 2: It's not They're not going in the portal and turning
Speaker 2: over the entire roster most likely, So assuming that they
Speaker 2: still have some of the same pieces, I do still
Speaker 2: believe that their personnel fits a gap scheme better. Like
Speaker 2: I still would rather see Mike on Wentu in a
Speaker 2: gap scheme. I still would rather see Leyden Robinson if
Speaker 2: he's a guy that has potential to start down the line,
Speaker 2: Cayden Wallace if he has potential to start down the line.
Speaker 2: I would still rather see those guys in a gap scheme.
Speaker 2: So I like the idea of that better. But if
Speaker 2: you're telling me that they're going to completely retool the
Speaker 2: entire offensive line and get more athletic and get leaner
Speaker 2: and get all that type of stuff, then okay, then
Speaker 2: you can go back to the zone scheme. But in
Speaker 2: Tennessee they had to do that. You know, they the
Speaker 2: floor kind of started it, Arthur Smith kind of finished
Speaker 2: it off. They they changed how they evaluated the line,
Speaker 2: and they didn't draft big three hundred and fifty pound guards,
Speaker 2: you know, so that that's a whole philosophical shift. They
Speaker 2: could get there. You know, it's possible that you could
Speaker 2: get there, but that.
Speaker 3: Would take time.
Speaker 2: You know, that's more than one off season, I would
Speaker 2: think to make that sort of thing happen. All right,
Speaker 2: Cole is in Minnesota.
Speaker 3: What's up, Coley? I were doing? Cole.
Speaker 5: Hey.
Speaker 7: So I'm pretty excited about the rabel hire obviously, just
Speaker 7: like everybody else. And I kind of agree with Evan obviously.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 7: As far as an experienced offensive coordinator goes, Josh McDaniels
Speaker 7: pretty easy pick. It feels like the only thing I'm
Speaker 7: worried about. Like, even with Bill at the height of
Speaker 7: the Patriots, you know, he still had guys around him
Speaker 7: that weren't necessarily yes man Ernie Adams who could at
Speaker 7: least butt heads with him and challenge his way of thinking.
Speaker 7: So I'm just hoping that you know, obviously Rabel's a
Speaker 7: pretty strongly opinionated guy. You know, he's passionate, you know,
Speaker 7: so I feel like it's important to find a guy
Speaker 7: that you know, doesn't have to soft skin, just isn't
Speaker 7: gonna do be a yes man and can challenge his
Speaker 7: way of thinking as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a good question.
Speaker 4: Thanks to say something and the press conference where it's like,
Speaker 4: we don't all want to be I don't want everybody
Speaker 4: to be on the same page or something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you definitely want people to challenge.
Speaker 4: You, right, It hit everybody weird. It's like, why why
Speaker 4: don't why doesn't he want everybody in the same page.
Speaker 4: I took that to mean like, yeah, I don't want
Speaker 4: let yes men Like, yeah, you're gonna get on the
Speaker 4: same page eventually. But you know, differentiating off idea as
Speaker 4: things like that. You know that's for somebody like Ryan Cowden.
Speaker 4: You look at him and it's all right. You know
Speaker 4: he's been with Verbel before, they have a working relationship,
Speaker 4: and you look for him to be that guy. Elliott Wolfe,
Speaker 4: you know, comes from a different background, can maybe be
Speaker 4: that guy and push back a little bit. I'm not
Speaker 4: super worried about Rabel insulating himself. I'm really he just
Speaker 4: doesn't seem like that kind of guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not super worried about it either. And I
Speaker 2: think there will be guys that have differing opinions on
Speaker 2: this staff, and there probably are on every single staff.
Speaker 2: But I think the most important thing is when we
Speaker 2: talk about personnel and we talk about this type of stuff,
Speaker 2: is do you need to really identify? And I think
Speaker 2: that they didn't really have the time to do this
Speaker 2: with your odd but you really need to identify, like
Speaker 2: what is a Patriot player? Like what is and I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about the intangibles. I'm talking about skill sets,
Speaker 2: like what is a Patriot wide receiver? What is a
Speaker 2: Patriot running back? What's a Patriot tackle? And if you
Speaker 2: can stick to the archetypes of the guys that you're
Speaker 2: searching for, then it becomes like a well oiled machine.
Speaker 4: So I'm talking about last week with the program, part
Speaker 4: of the program as the kind of players we want,
Speaker 4: and now it you know it. It makes things a
Speaker 4: lot easier because you know what you're looking for. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean, look, it's a I don't expect them to
Speaker 4: know that right now, like, you need to know who
Speaker 4: your coordinators are before we're going to do that. It's
Speaker 4: obviously low hanging fruit, but like just to look at,
Speaker 4: you know, the slot receiver for example, and the Patriots
Speaker 4: an old way of doing things. They knew that the
Speaker 4: Troy Brown, Dion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Danny Amandola,
Speaker 4: Like they knew what to look for to get that guy,
Speaker 4: and so they were not only able to continually pass
Speaker 4: the torch and get that guy, they were also able
Speaker 4: to get it later in the draft, Like they never
Speaker 4: had to reach on that guy in like the first
Speaker 4: or the second round because they knew the exact type
Speaker 4: of player that they were looking for, and they could
Speaker 4: find that player like Welker, you know, is a is
Speaker 4: a sign and trade situation as an RFA. Edelman's obviously
Speaker 4: a well known seventh round pick quarterback at the college level.
Speaker 4: Jacobe Myers is an undraftfted rookie free agent, right, Like,
Speaker 4: so you were able to do these types of things,
Speaker 4: and I think that's big. I'll give you another one
Speaker 4: that's a little less uh less obvious. I'm trying to
Speaker 4: remember where this tree starts because obviously He's not like
Speaker 4: Teddy Bruski. But you go from a Landon Roberts to
Speaker 4: Juwan Bentley, right, that kind of linebacker. I'm trying to
Speaker 4: remember who that was before Roberts.
Speaker 2: But right Landon Roberts obviously Dante high Towers like the
Speaker 2: apex version of that, right, yeaferent pet Johnson. Uh, you
Speaker 2: know a Landon Roberts is going Jawan Bentley. Now, even
Speaker 2: like Terrees Hall, who we love to talk about from
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty season, like even though he didn't have
Speaker 2: a ton going for him, he was a sledgehammer. That
Speaker 2: guy could take on a guard you want to lead
Speaker 2: through the line of scrimmage with the full back. Theres
Speaker 2: Hall was meeting you at the party right right, and
Speaker 2: that that type of guy is a skill set, it's
Speaker 2: a type and they were able to find those types
Speaker 2: of guys, you know, man coverage corners, Like, we're not
Speaker 2: gonna draft ballhawks, We're not gonna draft zone guys.
Speaker 4: We're gonna draft several one time Withcy.
Speaker 3: Jackson, Yeah, well I was, you know, different situation.
Speaker 2: But we're gonna draft Chushian Gonzales, We're gonna draft Marcus Jones,
Speaker 2: We're gonna draft guys that can.
Speaker 4: Run mind Stefan Gilmore, Right, we're gonna sign to yep.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know Jack Nelson from Wisconsin to tackle hearing a
Speaker 2: little hearing a lot about him, Yeah, because he's got
Speaker 2: all the traits and experience and stuff, I mean tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've seen a little bit of all as one of
Speaker 2: the emailers. Uh, you know, everybody keeps asking me about
Speaker 2: that guy. I've seen a little bit of him. I
Speaker 2: haven't seen enough to like have a full take on it,
Speaker 2: but uh, I've seen a little bit of him. And uh,
Speaker 2: you know, the one thing that I always worry about
Speaker 2: with tackles like that is like the height can be
Speaker 2: a detriment, right, Like if you're too tall and you
Speaker 2: don't have the flexibility in your lowers to like be
Speaker 2: able to sink and leverage and really get into your chair,
Speaker 2: then you can almost be too tall for the position.
Speaker 4: Who was the guy when we're at the Shrine Bowl
Speaker 4: from Baylor who was like six eight three thirty and
Speaker 4: he was physical as hell. Yeah, he was moving guys
Speaker 4: left and right, but he couldn't bend at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you.
Speaker 2: Remember, Yeah, I know who you're talking about, But you know,
Speaker 2: like a guy like Joe Walt is really tall. But
Speaker 2: Joe Walt's got great lower body flexibility and great uh,
Speaker 2: you know, knee bend.
Speaker 4: And he can make himself six to two like that, right.
Speaker 3: Exactly, That's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2: Andrew here he emails in and says that he's worried
Speaker 2: about Josh McDaniels, not because of a Patriots retread thing,
Speaker 2: but he's worried about changing systems on Drake May. And
Speaker 2: this is a fair concern, you know. He said, it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, getting a Spanish teacher to teach German, or
Speaker 2: a German teacher to speak whatever. And he's right, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a different system, it's a different terminology. And if
Speaker 2: I had one concern with Josh McDaniels, it's not so
Speaker 2: much the change of the language.
Speaker 3: It's it's more so, I would say, how much.
Speaker 2: His system puts on the quarterback at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2: I actually liked the idea of the center taking on
Speaker 2: a lot of those responsibilities, and I loved We.
Speaker 3: Talked to AVP.
Speaker 2: I forget which time it was, but as before the
Speaker 2: season started, and I remember he said to me that,
Speaker 2: you know, the quarterback has got enough to worry about, right,
Speaker 2: Like he's got he's got to read the coverage, he's
Speaker 2: got to read the defense. He's got to read his progressions.
Speaker 2: He's got to get the ball out accurately. He's got
Speaker 2: to time up his footwork, like he's got enough things
Speaker 2: on his mind to then also have to worry about
Speaker 2: protections and what's going on up front and all that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. I actually really liked the approach of
Speaker 2: putting most of that on the center. Now they were
Speaker 2: able to do it with rookie year Mac Jones, So
Speaker 2: I don't know what they did that. Maybe streamlined it
Speaker 2: a little bit for Mac his rookie year, because I
Speaker 2: can't imagine Mac was out there his rookie season like
Speaker 2: a field general, you know, putting everybody in their proper places.
Speaker 2: So maybe they did do some things to tweak it
Speaker 2: mac Jones's rookie season to help him out. So maybe
Speaker 2: they could do that with Drake, But that would be
Speaker 2: my one concern with that system for Drake is putting
Speaker 2: a lot more mentally on his plate pre snap at
Speaker 2: the line scrimmage and maybe bogging him down a little
Speaker 2: bit and not letting him play as fast and loose
Speaker 2: as we know he can play. So I'm not necessarily
Speaker 2: worried about changing languages on him.
Speaker 3: I am worried about that a little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you. I mean we heard him talking
Speaker 4: camp about how in the West Coast system it's like
Speaker 4: fourteen fifteen word play calls and how that was a challenge.
Speaker 4: So you're not gonna I think McDaniel still has some
Speaker 4: of those, but it's not gonna be as many as
Speaker 4: it is in a West Coast playbook. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 4: it's the pre snap stuff, and maybe they find a way,
Speaker 4: especially if Andrews is back, to kind of keep some
Speaker 4: of that with the center. Yeah, even in McDaniel's system
Speaker 4: kind of blend it. But I'm with you. By the way,
Speaker 4: that tackle was Connor Gallvian. Oh yeah, Connor gall he's
Speaker 4: still on the Lions. Yeah, he's on IR but he's
Speaker 4: on the Lions.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember Connor g There's another one there too that
Speaker 2: was like similar build, that was also really tall and
Speaker 2: also maybe went to Pitt.
Speaker 3: I want to say Pitt. I don't remember, though, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I just remember Connor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember both of those guys being there. So
Speaker 2: here's another question from Thomas that I I've seen a lot.
Speaker 3: You know, if you get one of these, as.
Speaker 2: You know, we feel like we've we've so to coined
Speaker 2: the phrase type pants guy.
Speaker 3: If you get the type pants guy.
Speaker 4: The YouTube chat's been all over you saying that. I
Speaker 4: think you've said it like if people playing a drinking game.
Speaker 4: Every time you say it they passed out a long
Speaker 4: time ago.
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, I haven't even noticed that. Uh hey,
Speaker 3: this one says it in the email.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying I'm not saying it's wrong. No, it's good.
Speaker 4: How am I supposed to describe It's a good shorthand.
Speaker 4: I just think it's funny that in the chat noticed,
Speaker 4: do not play that game. By the way, don't, seriously don't.
Speaker 3: If if you hire that guy, I'm not gonna say
Speaker 3: it again.
Speaker 2: Now, if you hire the innovative offensive coordinator takes a
Speaker 2: new age right exactly, So say I, if you hire
Speaker 2: that guy, then can you hire McDaniels as a quarterbacks coach?
Speaker 2: I do not know why Josh McDaniels would do that.
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels is sitting pretty right now. The Raiders are
Speaker 2: still paying them like he's got all the money in
Speaker 2: the world. I have no idea why he would come
Speaker 2: here to be a quarterback. If anything, I've wondered, could
Speaker 2: you do it the other way? Could you hire some
Speaker 2: young upshot coordinator and Josh McDaniels essentially becomes a much much, much,
Speaker 2: much much better version of Ben mcint Yes, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: I think it is definitely fair. A couple questions about
Speaker 2: some Day two wide receiverst I don't know if this
Speaker 2: guy's gonna go on Day two. Matthew Golden, he's like
Speaker 2: the darling right now. Everybody loves Matthew Golden from.
Speaker 3: Two games in the playoffs.
Speaker 4: No, he's been good all year. Everybody's just discovering him
Speaker 4: because everybody was so locked in on Isaiah Bond during
Speaker 4: the year. Matthew Golden is a really good receiver. He's
Speaker 4: a really good So you know, I love those like
Speaker 4: well rounded guys where I'm like, I don't know that
Speaker 4: he does any one thing amazing, but like find a
Speaker 4: weakness in his gaming. Can't maybe a little small, but
Speaker 4: like he looks like one of these complete guys that's
Speaker 4: just gonna come in day one and go. And I
Speaker 4: know people as what you said about Jalleen Polk. No,
Speaker 4: Jalen Polk was like for what he was, seemed NFL ready,
Speaker 4: but he was what he was, which was like a
Speaker 4: chain mover. He wasn't super athletic, wasn't a separator. No,
Speaker 4: Matthew Golden has some explosiveness to him, has the ability
Speaker 4: to separate. He can create big place. He's not a
Speaker 4: chain mover. He's a big play threat. He can make
Speaker 4: plays at all three levels. He's gonna be like a
Speaker 4: fringe first round pick. I think he's right there with Agbuca.
Speaker 4: Like the top is Tep mcmill and we've talked about
Speaker 4: this the disclaimer. Travis Hunter is the number one Travis
Speaker 4: Hunter in the draft.
Speaker 3: He's his own thing.
Speaker 4: We're putting him to the side. Tet McMillan's best receiver
Speaker 4: in a draft, Luthor Burden's number two. I think when
Speaker 4: you get to that like next tier, right, it's like Buca,
Speaker 4: it's Bolden. I feel like I'm missing somebody, but like
Speaker 4: he's right there in that next group Luthor Burden. No,
Speaker 4: I said I put Burden in between.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, Burn's better.
Speaker 4: Than a Buca and Golden, but he's not as good
Speaker 4: as mcmill.
Speaker 2: So the other names that he put out there were
Speaker 2: Trey Harris, who I know a lot of people are
Speaker 2: big fans of we're gonna talk a lot about yeah,
Speaker 2: and uh Jalen Royal. So I'm looking forward to seeing
Speaker 2: it the Senior Bowl. I haven't watched a ton of
Speaker 2: his film yet, but he's gonna be in Mobile, which
Speaker 2: will be good. So Trey Harris, I watched a little
Speaker 2: bit of him the other day.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I noticed with him is, you know,
Speaker 2: he's kind of more of like a builder of speed
Speaker 2: than he is like a true burner on the outside
Speaker 2: that good size and a good catch rightious his hands
Speaker 2: are you know, he has some of those tracking you know,
Speaker 2: over the shoulder focus drops if you want to call
Speaker 2: him those. I'm not in love with Trey Harris's game.
Speaker 2: I I see it like I see the archetype that
Speaker 2: he fits the outside, bigger X receiver.
Speaker 3: But I'm just saying I'm not a big fan.
Speaker 4: That guy from Old Miss you know what the takes
Speaker 4: gonna be. Yeah, but he's nothing like I know, but
Speaker 4: get ready for a totally I'm not saying that I
Speaker 4: don't think Brown's like a running back with the football.
Speaker 4: But just get ready to hear that.
Speaker 2: Jalen Royals, I'm looking forward to seeing down in Mobile.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I like Matthew Golden the lot. I
Speaker 2: definitely think Matthew Golden is more of like a z
Speaker 2: or An off the line. He doesn't he doesn't have
Speaker 2: the size or the play strength to play the X spot.
Speaker 2: And I saw some stuff, especially against Georgia, where he
Speaker 2: struggled a little bit against press and things of that nature.
Speaker 2: But he's really bursty. He's really smooth at the top
Speaker 2: of the route. One of those guys that doesn't have
Speaker 2: to to discelerate too much at the top, like he
Speaker 2: can just break right through.
Speaker 3: He's got good explosiveness through the top.
Speaker 2: He's one of those players that if you move him
Speaker 2: around like a chess piece, you move him in motion,
Speaker 2: you start him in motion, your cheap motion thing, Like
Speaker 2: he's going to eat up and cushion fast and break
Speaker 2: really quickly.
Speaker 4: I saw something, Jalen Wadall, I don't think he's quite
Speaker 4: that fast. Yeah, so stage wise.
Speaker 3: I could so. I touted you this last night.
Speaker 2: I got you who said, that's my my con for
Speaker 2: Matthew Golden right now?
Speaker 3: Is Jayden Reid agree? But yeah, that's what I see
Speaker 3: because I think he can't.
Speaker 2: He has really good ball skills and he can win
Speaker 2: in some crowds and things like that, which is true
Speaker 2: with Jayden Reid too, but his like his special trade
Speaker 2: is his acceleration and his speed, and I think both
Speaker 2: those guys have that. So I'm with Matthew Golden, but again,
Speaker 2: I think with all these guys and I I'm really
Speaker 2: also really looking forward.
Speaker 3: To, uh the Miami kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's going to be down in mobile and
Speaker 2: Williams going to be a mobile. Yes, yeah, also all
Speaker 2: of that, like Tier is all going to be at
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl. Perfectstreppo excites me. He reminds me a
Speaker 2: ton of Khalil Shakir.
Speaker 4: He's bigger na though, isn't he?
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: Clear is a decent size, like in terms of thickness.
Speaker 2: So I'm looking forward to seeing him too when he
Speaker 2: moves it and just runs with the football like five
Speaker 2: ten yeah, probably like five ten, five eleven, only five ten.
Speaker 4: I think he's like six ft six one, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it binds me a little bit of Shaker
Speaker 2: just the way that he like weaves with the ball
Speaker 2: and you know, good with the ball in his hands.
Speaker 4: While we're that you got any recency bias, guys.
Speaker 2: Uh, I might, but give me a second. I want
Speaker 2: to read some more of these emails. So this is
Speaker 2: uh Nicholas and I've heard this name a ton. When
Speaker 2: Fred brought this name up, he's he's high on this player.
Speaker 4: Boy.
Speaker 2: So we both agree on this one for once. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Nicholas brings up Mason Graham. Okay, And my take
Speaker 2: on Mason Graham is that I hear where everybody's saying,
Speaker 2: where like, if you're just taking best player available and
Speaker 2: Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter off the board and you're
Speaker 2: just going best player available, there's a case for Mason Graham.
Speaker 2: But I'm not a just pure BPA type of guy.
Speaker 2: I'm a best player available at a premium position of need,
Speaker 2: the best player.
Speaker 4: Available for the football team in specific.
Speaker 3: So I think we're kind of yeah, splitting hairs there.
Speaker 2: I am not drafting an interior defensive lineman at four overall,
Speaker 2: unless the one caveat is that a doctor tells me
Speaker 2: that Christian Barmer is never going to play football again, right,
Speaker 2: which God, I hope is not the case, right, But
Speaker 2: I'm just saying if that is the case, then okay, Like.
Speaker 4: It becomes more of a conversation.
Speaker 2: But the only issue that I have with Mason Graham
Speaker 2: that high is that you are counting on him being
Speaker 2: like I don't want to put.
Speaker 3: Him in Aaron Donald because that's unfair.
Speaker 2: But like, you know what I'm trying to say, Cox,
Speaker 2: You're trying to put him in a tier where he
Speaker 2: is one of the elite, elite interior pass rushers at
Speaker 2: the position, like a top five player at that position.
Speaker 2: Chris Jones, Fletcher Cox, you know, like we're talking about.
Speaker 3: A stud of studs.
Speaker 2: If that's what you're telling me that he is, then okay,
Speaker 2: but he if you're it's almost like taking a guard.
Speaker 3: It's not quite as.
Speaker 2: Bad, but it almost is where like you better be
Speaker 2: getting freakin' John Hannah if you're taking a guard that high.
Speaker 2: And I just don't know if Mason Graham is quite
Speaker 2: that good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you can answer this better than me.
Speaker 4: How are you going to get him in barmore both
Speaker 4: on the field where he's on the field a significant
Speaker 4: amount as a top draft pick, like you need him
Speaker 4: on the field. It's a defensive tackle taking that high
Speaker 4: you're talking at least like sixty five seventy percent usage
Speaker 4: rate Barmar's if he's healthy, he's probably one of your
Speaker 4: top three best players, right, It's him, May and Gonzales,
Speaker 4: So you want him on the field a significant amount.
Speaker 4: So now, like, what are you doing in the end?
Speaker 4: Is one of them playing in? Now you're pretty big, Like,
Speaker 4: how's that good? I'm not saying it can't work, but
Speaker 4: you're you're really kind of putting yourself in a box
Speaker 4: if you make that pick, and you so you have
Speaker 4: to be damn sure that he's gonna give you the
Speaker 4: outcome that you're expecting, because if not, it comes really
Speaker 4: hard to justify that pick.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So they're both three techniques naturally, right, and so you
Speaker 2: can you know, you could obviously make it work with
Speaker 2: them being three four ends like you know four I
Speaker 2: five technique ends over the tackle or outside shade the
Speaker 2: guard on early downs passing downs, Like you worry about
Speaker 2: how that is going to fit together, Like how do
Speaker 2: you have both those guys on the field. You know,
Speaker 2: the Patriots in the past, they've always liked to run
Speaker 2: like that mebafront where they have one down lineman over
Speaker 2: the nose, like, okay, so how is that Christian Barmore?
Speaker 2: Is that Mason Graham? Are you gonna play with two
Speaker 2: three techniques?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: If you're gonna do that, then you have nobody in
Speaker 2: the A gaps, So now you have to find ways
Speaker 2: to cover the A gaps. And like those types of
Speaker 2: things are all you know in consideration with that type
Speaker 2: of pick. He's an up the field player as well.
Speaker 2: Like you, I don't look at Mason Graham on film
Speaker 2: and necessarily think of him as a great two gapping.
Speaker 3: And he's not.
Speaker 2: And he's not, you know, a pure two gapping end
Speaker 2: I So in that respect, you know the guy that
Speaker 2: he reminds me a lot of. And I know that
Speaker 2: this guy was drafted a little bit later but has
Speaker 2: had a great rookie year for the Rams.
Speaker 3: Is Brandon Fiskey, right, Like, he just up the.
Speaker 2: Field, absolute terror to block and just a screamer, right
Speaker 2: And and that's a great player. Fisky is one of
Speaker 2: the best young players in the league. That's outside of
Speaker 2: the bos you want, Yeah, Barmore is more physical though.
Speaker 2: Barmore is stronger and more and stouter than Graham is.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like you have that role filled, Yeah.
Speaker 3: You do.
Speaker 2: It's one of the few roles that you have filled
Speaker 2: with the blue chip play.
Speaker 4: Right exactly, So like why double down on that with
Speaker 4: this premium massage?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm totally with you there.
Speaker 2: David says, Uh, we need to get Rabel on catch
Speaker 2: twenty two. I'd love I'd love to see Stacy's face on.
Speaker 4: That one option.
Speaker 2: Uh, that would be good. Open invitation is right, anytime
Speaker 2: he wants to come.
Speaker 4: On any any time, staff really not just any Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's gonna happen, Field, and uh, let's take these calls
Speaker 2: and then we gotta we gotta end this plane, because
Speaker 2: land this plane, because I got I got some good
Speaker 2: interviews lined up on the place for Vrabel. By the way,
Speaker 2: I can protease that. I don't want to say who,
Speaker 2: but it's gonna be a good one. All right, Dan
Speaker 2: is in Philadelphia?
Speaker 3: What's up? Dan? Or Don? Sorry? Don?
Speaker 7: Hey guys, I just want to quickly how appealing do
Speaker 7: you think New England is as a free agent destination
Speaker 7: with Vrabel as compared to you know, if Ben Johnson
Speaker 7: did come in, And I think you guys pretty much
Speaker 7: nailed it with the coordinator talk today, so I wanted
Speaker 7: to jump to the draft here. I'm kind of a
Speaker 7: firm believer that now with Vrabel as a head coach,
Speaker 7: I wasn't necessarily in on taking Travis Hunter if he's available,
Speaker 7: but I think Rabel is the right coach to turn
Speaker 7: him into a special player in the league. But for
Speaker 7: this hypothetical, if Travis Hunter and Abdull Carter are off
Speaker 7: the board, are you guys planning to stick there? Do
Speaker 7: you think the talent is there? Are you trading back?
Speaker 7: You know, I know you just mentioned why have two
Speaker 7: blue chip players like Mason Graham and Barmore on the
Speaker 7: defensive line, But is Will Johnson a consideration? Are you
Speaker 7: trading back and maybe thinking receiver? You know, what's your
Speaker 7: what's your draft strategy going forward? I'll take it off air.
Speaker 3: Thank yeah, thanks for the call.
Speaker 2: Do so on the first point about being a free
Speaker 2: agent destination, I'm interested to ask some players that for
Speaker 2: this piece about that, and because they did sign his
Speaker 2: free agents with Rabel.
Speaker 3: But I do think it's better, certainly.
Speaker 2: Because you're not current free like free agents that are
Speaker 2: coming up, you know, in twenty twenty five, I know
Speaker 2: that you're talking to a past you're not talking current
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five guys though new co current. I do
Speaker 2: think it's it's a better sell. You have a guy
Speaker 2: that has a proof of concept and a guy that
Speaker 2: knows how to coach and can probably really present like
Speaker 2: a plan of like this is how we're gonna use you,
Speaker 2: and this is what we're gonna do, and all those
Speaker 2: types of things. So I'm I think it's definitely a
Speaker 2: better job than where they were. But money talks like
Speaker 2: it's gonna take money still, like there's still not a
Speaker 2: destination to the point where they're gonna get guys at discounts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm one hundred percent with you, you know.
Speaker 4: Compared to Ben Johnson, I think some of that's probably
Speaker 4: personality thing. I think there are certain kinds of players
Speaker 4: that would probably rather play for Mike Rabel. I think
Speaker 4: there's certain kind of players, certain kinds of players that
Speaker 4: rather pay for play for Ben Johnson. I think they
Speaker 4: are more of a destination now than they were before,
Speaker 4: but yet they're they're not getting anybody without paying them
Speaker 4: the most money. At the end of the day, they
Speaker 4: got to pay people the most money to come here
Speaker 4: whoever the coaches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely also agree with the caller about Travis Hunter,
Speaker 2: like I feel better.
Speaker 3: I still don't feel great about it.
Speaker 4: Right, No, better, I don't. Yeah, I still don't know.
Speaker 4: I would take him over Will Johnson, like if I
Speaker 4: need to. We're gonna learn a lot at the Combine
Speaker 4: about what his plans are. I still just it's so
Speaker 4: hard to take about Travis Hunter because I don't know
Speaker 4: where he's gonna play, and I don't know what his
Speaker 4: plan's gonna be and how open he's gonna be, the
Speaker 4: different plans and things like that, because that's what it
Speaker 4: really comes down to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be interesting to see.
Speaker 4: I assume that his also think I think he's going
Speaker 4: to the Giants, So.
Speaker 2: I think his answers that the Combine are gonna be
Speaker 2: that he wants to play both ways.
Speaker 3: I think that's what he wants to do.
Speaker 2: It's just not realistic, it's not but I think that's
Speaker 2: what he wants to do, or at least do it
Speaker 2: in some sort of packaged.
Speaker 3: Way that it is realistic.
Speaker 2: You know, he plays twenty five snaps on defense and
Speaker 2: twenty five on offense, or you know, ten on offense,
Speaker 2: but fifty on defense, you know, try to find that
Speaker 2: happy medium. But I don't think that he's going to
Speaker 2: go in the league and only play on one side
Speaker 2: of the ball unless he gets into the NFL, and
Speaker 2: maybe he has to learn the hard way, Like maybe
Speaker 2: he has to learn the hard way.
Speaker 4: This is too But I feel like if you get
Speaker 4: to that point and when I say playboat, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: he can be a package player. But that's what that's
Speaker 4: what I worry about, is he's too ambitious. The coaching
Speaker 4: staff is too ambitious. You get to the point where
Speaker 4: you're learning something the hard way. At that point it's
Speaker 4: too late, Like now, all right, you're wasting time with
Speaker 4: this great player. So that's what worries me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Sal is in Linnfield. I believe it says, yeah, Sal,
Speaker 2: what's up?
Speaker 3: Sal?
Speaker 8: Hey, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Boyd?
Speaker 8: Sale of my friends call me money Listen. I feel
Speaker 8: like the tackle position on this rough the is not
Speaker 8: good enough. You know, I was I was to standout
Speaker 8: in high school and I think I could do a
Speaker 8: better jump than Madarian Lowe and the boys there. So
Speaker 8: I'm really liking the idea of drafting a tackle. I like,
Speaker 8: I really like Campbell. I also think we should probably
Speaker 8: move up somewhere in this draft, top fifteen maybe and
Speaker 8: look at Ashton gent. I also Scattabo Scataboo. However, he's
Speaker 8: a pretty good, pretty good player.
Speaker 3: But I feel like this guy's trolling a good one.
Speaker 3: All right, all right, thanks, so that might have been.
Speaker 4: I think so. I have said for the record, I
Speaker 4: do not think the Patriots and draft in the first drafts. No,
Speaker 4: they they they have too Manykees take a running back
Speaker 4: that high look like, but.
Speaker 3: He built it around Derrick Henry, Alex.
Speaker 4: Ashton Gent's not This is your same thing with comparing
Speaker 4: Mason Graham to to Aaron Donald, Like, okay, you know,
Speaker 4: let's not. I'm not comparing any right, Derrick Henry. I've
Speaker 4: said this year, We're never gonna see Derrick Henry again,
Speaker 4: like just because of how basileagu geted he is and
Speaker 4: to the way the league's going, We're never gonna see
Speaker 4: a guy like Derreck Henry again. Uh, Cam Skataboo good player.
Speaker 4: I would like to see him draft a running back.
Speaker 4: I do think with Rabel there is a chance they drive,
Speaker 4: especially if he doesn't believe vermonder Stevenson can fix his
Speaker 4: fumbling issues. I do think there's a chance they're gonna
Speaker 4: take a running back somewhere that's gonna make you uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's gonna be in the first round.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's on Day two. Those Ohio State backs. Man,
Speaker 4: if he wants to find again, I'm not gonna compare
Speaker 4: anybody to Derrick Henry, but if he wants to find himself,
Speaker 4: a bell cow right twenty five carries a game seventeen
Speaker 4: games this season. Can can weather the tear, can still
Speaker 4: be giving out body blows with all of that that
Speaker 4: contact that he's taking. Oh boy, would Quinn Shaw and
Speaker 4: Judkins be fun in that offense or Travon Henderson. I
Speaker 4: like Judkins a little bit better, But like those Ohio
Speaker 4: State backs, Mari, just those stop stop, don't do that
Speaker 4: thing good football, don't don't, don't blame.
Speaker 3: Up front. We're gonna be a bunch of hogs. So
Speaker 3: you don't.
Speaker 4: So you don't like the Ohio State running backs.
Speaker 3: Uh, they're fine. I think they're all.
Speaker 2: I think this running back class is so deep and
Speaker 2: uh and has so many names in it that like
Speaker 2: just just just take something.
Speaker 4: I think there's a ton of good Backs. I don't
Speaker 4: think you can miss running back this year.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not putting any sort of priority on that position
Speaker 2: if they're gonna go a little higher, which I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be surprised if they do.
Speaker 4: I like the Ohio State guys, but that guy was
Speaker 4: definitely trolling or maybe or maybe you maybe a Mario
Speaker 4: a mari and Hampton is more realistic of conversation than
Speaker 4: we thought. There we go and reuniting him with Drake Man.
Speaker 4: You like Hampton, I know you like Hampton.
Speaker 2: I do like Hampton. I saw him at the pro day,
Speaker 2: and I am very, very as much recency bias as
Speaker 2: I have. I'm also biased to people that I saw
Speaker 2: in person, the Ohio State guys. I think most people
Speaker 2: that that do this for a living are that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, if you see so, I I definitely am
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 4: That does it.
Speaker 2: I have to take a call out too, so we
Speaker 2: have to a few minutes earlier here, but I think
Speaker 2: next week, you know, next week. I know we have
Speaker 2: a lot of questions in here about like draft strategy
Speaker 2: and Vrabels types and things. We obviously had to open
Speaker 2: the show today with our thoughts on the higher and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff to begin with. So next
Speaker 2: week we'll get right back into it. And then the
Speaker 2: week after that, Not to make you feel bad because
Speaker 2: I wish you were coming with me, but the week
Speaker 2: after that, I will be in Mobile for the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 2: so we'll do a show. Alex will be here running
Speaker 2: the ship from home base, and I'll be at the
Speaker 2: Senior Bowl, so we'll have plenty of draft talk on
Speaker 2: that show. Obviously will be all draft talk. We'll just
Speaker 2: do mobile mobile Mobile down there. So I'm really looking
Speaker 2: forward to that on my second trip to the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: So I'm excited for that, and I'm really excited just
Speaker 2: also to observe and see who's there from the Patriots
Speaker 2: will be interesting in itself, so we'll see what reports
Speaker 2: I can come up from there. But one more time,
Speaker 2: our friends at bud Light's easy to drink, easy to enjoy,
Speaker 2: bud Light the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots.
Speaker 2: All right, we'll see you guys next week and we'll
Speaker 2: get into a lot of draft talk.
Speaker 3: In a couple weeks and I'm in Mobile.
Speaker 2: But until then, signing off for Alex Bartam Evan Lazarre,
Speaker 2: See you next time.
Speaker 4: Bye.
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