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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. Generally,

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Speaker 1: the actors I idolize are the greats of the past.

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Speaker 1: I like some younger ones. I respect them, They're just

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Speaker 1: not on my mount rushmore like Kirk Douglas or Barbara Stanwick.

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Speaker 1: One of the few current actors who tempts me to

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Speaker 1: make an exception is Edward Norton. He melts into his

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Speaker 1: roles so totally it can be hard to recognize him

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Speaker 1: from one film to the next. After playing a sociopathic

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Speaker 1: murderer and Primal Fear, he moved to the cheerful Singing

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Speaker 1: Boyfriend and Woody Allen's Everyone Says I Love You, and

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Speaker 1: from there a long list of great works by great directors,

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Speaker 1: including American History, X, Fight Club, and Spike Lee's. But

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Speaker 1: movie making has changed over his quarter century as a

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Speaker 1: leading man. Fight Club was shot over one thirty days.

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Speaker 1: That just doesn't happen anymore. The money's not there and

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Speaker 1: the studios don't have the patients. Norton has tried his

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Speaker 1: hand at directing twice, once on either side of that divide.

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Speaker 1: He's just releasing his adaptation of the Jonathan Leatham novel

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Speaker 1: Motherless Brooklyn. I'm in that one and it's out November one.

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Speaker 1: His other directing Foray was in two thousand with a

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Speaker 1: romantic comedy Keeping the Faith. I actually had more money

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Speaker 1: and more time to make Keeping the Faith, a rabbi

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Speaker 1: priest joke turned into a romantic comedy than I did

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Speaker 1: to make Motherless Brooklyn, which is a big, epic New

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Speaker 1: York period period piece of the fifties, done at scale

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Speaker 1: with you know, I think we ended up with six

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Speaker 1: and eight something effects shots in the film. I could

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Speaker 1: have never made this film in the constraints of budget

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Speaker 1: and time that we had back then, because I could

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Speaker 1: barely pull off Keeping the Faith with more. And that

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Speaker 1: was partly a function of in the years since, you know,

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Speaker 1: when we made the with Spike Um, which I think

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Speaker 1: is one of his better films, which is saying a lot.

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Speaker 1: He made that film in twenty six days and it's

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Speaker 1: a It's a really cinematically robust film shot in New York.

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Speaker 1: Going through the training camp of seeing how he did that,

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Speaker 1: seeing how Wes Anderson does his on fractional budgets and

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Speaker 1: schedules in your rito, doing Birdman in days unbelievable planning

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Speaker 1: just like planning at a level rehearsal um engagement with

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Speaker 1: actors in a way that necessitates less handholding and kind

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Speaker 1: of debating. On the day Spike and s they know

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Speaker 1: what they want to do, They give themselves out and

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Speaker 1: things like that. They don't edit the film in the

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Speaker 1: way they shoot it, but they are not making it

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Speaker 1: up on the day. Um. They have put a lot

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Speaker 1: of thought into it and and they drive the proceedings

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Speaker 1: along in a very determined way. And when you see

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Speaker 1: really good people pulled out off, if you take mental notes,

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Speaker 1: you're like, Wow, this can be done. This can be

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Speaker 1: done in a different way. It can be done without compromise,

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Speaker 1: and you can pull this off. I never ever could

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Speaker 1: have made this film without working with Spike West, Alejandro

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Speaker 1: and others. Did you know when you make Keeping the

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Speaker 1: Faith that you said to yourself over the past several

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Speaker 1: years that you would do it again? Did you know

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Speaker 1: you do it again? I already had this one rattling

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Speaker 1: around in my head. Not unlike my character in this

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Speaker 1: My character Lionel says, let's just say, an unfinished puzzle

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Speaker 1: makes my head hurt worse than most people. That's as

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Speaker 1: close to a line about myself as I've ever written, I,

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Speaker 1: I'm also probably obstinate, and um, I don't like to

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Speaker 1: be denied. But I but but some of it is

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Speaker 1: just that idea that he discusses in the film about

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Speaker 1: having glass in the brain. I if I get a

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Speaker 1: thing in my head, it just I really I suffer

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Speaker 1: a little bit from not achieving the satisfaction of ultimately

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Speaker 1: like putting the story together and getting it told so

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Speaker 1: I can get it out of my my brain loop.

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Speaker 1: You know. Part of my fascination with this piece was compulsion,

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Speaker 1: the idea that, as Lionel says, you're doing something for

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Speaker 1: certain reasons, and at some point you even forget what

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Speaker 1: the original reasons, where you're not even sure why you're

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Speaker 1: still pressing on a thing long after everyone's kind of

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Speaker 1: blaring it. You're like, yeah, isn't it time man to

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Speaker 1: let that to bury? Yeah? I always it's funny, isn't

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Speaker 1: it too? Because there's things that are much more important

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Speaker 1: in the world, and you can sell yourself like why

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Speaker 1: am I? Why am I applying so much in my

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Speaker 1: time in life to telling a story? But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, we're living in an age where a lot

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Speaker 1: of things are encouraging people to be passive, you know,

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Speaker 1: so pushing back against anything. That's just a good feeling.

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Speaker 1: Your dad was a federal prosecutor. Yeah, at one where

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Speaker 1: he was best attorney. It was a U S attorney.

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Speaker 1: And your mom most of my life taught high school

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Speaker 1: English in a public school. And your and your mom's

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Speaker 1: dad was this very successful real estate developer. Yeah. His

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Speaker 1: name was Jim Rowse. He was. He was very celebrated. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was. He was. He was on the cover of

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Speaker 1: the New York Times when he died, which amazed me.

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Speaker 1: And he was on the cover of Time magazine, like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know when, when was the last time for positive

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Speaker 1: reasons a real estate developer was on the cover of Time.

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Speaker 1: He um, He was considered He was considered one of

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Speaker 1: the great visionaries of progressive, humanistic ideas about cities. He

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Speaker 1: achieved these very very notable sort of downtown revitalization projects

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Speaker 1: like the Baldwin or Harbor or Fanuel Hall in Boston,

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Speaker 1: place that parts of the cities that had been written

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Speaker 1: off abandoned, and he saw vitality in them and was

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Speaker 1: convinced that you could bring life back into cities, make

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Speaker 1: cities the marketplace of ideas, culture, all of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and in many ways, you know, he really um decried.

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Speaker 1: He was one of the first people to talk about sprawl,

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Speaker 1: that highways were going to create low density development, and

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Speaker 1: that this was gonna be people were going to flee

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Speaker 1: the cities and we were gonna get kind of non communities,

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Speaker 1: We were going to get these sort of like limitless

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Speaker 1: um you know, and and that the old world town

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Speaker 1: was going to disappear in a way. And he was right.

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Speaker 1: He proved these things he talked about in the fifties

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Speaker 1: turned very true in the sixties and seventies, and so

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Speaker 1: people really looked at him as a a gurup. But

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Speaker 1: he um. Then he he developed kind of the first

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Speaker 1: planned city in America, which was Columbia, Maryland, UM between

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Speaker 1: Baltimore and Washington. It was very progressive um, you know, socioeconomically, ethnically, diverse,

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Speaker 1: lots of open space. It was. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: this utopian idea of of what American communities could look like.

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Speaker 1: But what what I want to get to is, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you go to Yale and you go and

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Speaker 1: you you switch from astronomy, I studied history. I thought

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Speaker 1: I wanted to study physics. I didn't have the math

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Speaker 1: for it at all. Like learned that very quickly, which

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Speaker 1: was one of those good humbling moments, realized I was

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Speaker 1: like better at writing. You switch to Asian history. You

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Speaker 1: you live in Japan, and you did you work for

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Speaker 1: your grandfather's company in Japan? Yeah? I did. He he

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Speaker 1: was consulting to two places that were trying to replicate

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Speaker 1: what he had done with in our harbors and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I um, I wanted to live and work abroad, like

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Speaker 1: in the Foreign Service or like the intelligence agencies used

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Speaker 1: to recruit at Yale. And I was was pretty enamored

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Speaker 1: of like the idea of doing something something and living overseas.

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Speaker 1: But I had the bug. I kind of had the

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Speaker 1: theater bug, and I kind of gave myself. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to move to New York. And I couldn't

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Speaker 1: really admit to myself I wanted to do that. You know,

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Speaker 1: yeah I could, You're like doing this, you don't. There's

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Speaker 1: something like it was an apology inside me to me too.

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Speaker 1: I and and and and in some ways, because my grandfather,

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Speaker 1: by then it devoted all his entire focus was on

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Speaker 1: affordable housing development, and he had built one of the

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Speaker 1: great organizations in America, a nonprofit organization figuring out how

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Speaker 1: to get complicated finance structures to get money into affordable

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Speaker 1: housing development. And he was in They were in New York,

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Speaker 1: redeveloping thousands of city owned abandoned buildings across the late

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. And I was working for him in

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Speaker 1: New York. I literally went down. I was like twenty one.

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Speaker 1: I went down, sat on the porch with my grandfather

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Speaker 1: and sort of apologized to him because he paid for

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Speaker 1: me to go to college. And I thought, how do

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Speaker 1: I tell him? How do I tell him I want

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Speaker 1: to be an actor? You know? And he and he

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Speaker 1: was the greatest. He was. He was a very eccentric,

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Speaker 1: eclectic guy. He was orphaned when he was a kid.

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Speaker 1: He he never he never wore suits. He wore like

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Speaker 1: moder's jackets and fishing hats. He was originally Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: really was. And he and I was shocked. He said

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Speaker 1: to me, he said, don't don't. He said, don't don't

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Speaker 1: chase money. He said, whatever you do, just don't chase money.

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Speaker 1: Just he said, just do whatever, do what you love,

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Speaker 1: doing what you have a passion for. And in good time,

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Speaker 1: you'll figure out how you can be of service through it.

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Speaker 1: You know. He said, you can be of service in anything.

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Speaker 1: And he loved the arts. He loved He helped create

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Speaker 1: Center Stage in Baltimore by supporting it in the early years.

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Speaker 1: He really believed in the arts. So he kind of

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Speaker 1: gave me this permission. I was still working for him

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Speaker 1: to New York, but then I started moonlighting in the

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Speaker 1: theater and I felt like, um, I was allowed. But

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Speaker 1: but what I want to get to, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know exaggerate this, but but it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you grow up, you go to Yale, and you come

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Speaker 1: from a very right, u stable family and a lot

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Speaker 1: of successful people there. And my point is that in

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Speaker 1: your acting, especially like book Ending now and Primal few

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Speaker 1: years ago, where you really really start to take off

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Speaker 1: in the movie business, are two damaged people. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say. You know, it's a funny thing

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Speaker 1: because I am I'm not drawn to damage, but I

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Speaker 1: I am drawn to sort of the duality, like the

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Speaker 1: idea of the layer you see and the layer you

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Speaker 1: don't see, and sometimes they're paradoxical, you know. I think

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Speaker 1: it's not by chance that like the Greek drama symbol

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Speaker 1: is the two masks, the comedy and the drama masks, right,

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Speaker 1: because everybody's operating on these multiple level. There's these levels

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Speaker 1: in ourselves and sometimes they coexist and they're not necessarily

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Speaker 1: antagonistic to each other, but they really are the end

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Speaker 1: of the yang, right. And I think that when you

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Speaker 1: find um, when you find a character that the the

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Speaker 1: yin and the yang is going on like really clearly

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Speaker 1: at the same time in them, that's interesting. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's I don't want to call it cheap, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's like the kind of primal fear, like a person

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Speaker 1: who's faking a thing that's sort of juicy. That's like

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Speaker 1: the pulpy version of it. And it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun, right, especially when no one knows who you are,

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Speaker 1: so you can actually surprise a lot of people. But

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Speaker 1: then sometimes if it's like American History X, that's not

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Speaker 1: really a damage persons, but it's a person with this

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Speaker 1: huge complexity going on it. It is like a fellow

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Speaker 1: or something. He's a real leader, he's a lover of

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Speaker 1: his family, he's got a real intellect, his potential is limitless,

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Speaker 1: and he totally destroys himself with the one dark thing

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Speaker 1: with this this rage. Right, he's got rage, and the

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Speaker 1: rage just just dismantles everything else, right, And those paradoxes

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Speaker 1: are sometimes really compelling. Um, playing those parts, I find

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Speaker 1: me and I watch you in this film, and I'm

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Speaker 1: very drawn to the and of vacuity of that, like

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Speaker 1: I need to believe underneath that there's a sensitive person. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know you're not just it's not just externalized. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I think you did a great job. I'm not just

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Speaker 1: saying the thank you and uh and I'm not just

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Speaker 1: saying this because you're in the film and great in

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Speaker 1: the film. But I think, um, it's a very it's

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Speaker 1: a very interesting thing to me, like this idea of

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Speaker 1: like the counterpoint in people, the capacities and people and yeah,

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Speaker 1: Lionel in this has tourettes, but you it's a it's

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Speaker 1: absolutely stolen from the book over Black. At the top

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Speaker 1: of the film, you hear his inner voice, right, So

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, it's the trick of going you're gonna

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Speaker 1: know me like a friend. I'm gonna let you right

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Speaker 1: in on the inside, so that you can see the sensitive,

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Speaker 1: smart person, of depth of feeling, of loneliness, of longing.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have immediate empathy because you're gonna go, I

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Speaker 1: like everything about the way this guy talks, the way

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Speaker 1: he tells his own story, and then I'm going to

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Speaker 1: let you in on the fact that I've got a

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Speaker 1: really messed up condition that makes life very difficult, very funny, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And that's a great dramatic trick because you're not forty

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Speaker 1: seconds in and you go, I'm on this guy's side, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's credit to Jonathan Leatham who wrote the novel.

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Speaker 1: That's how the novel works on And speaking of which,

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Speaker 1: you walked around with the novel for how long? I

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Speaker 1: read the book, loved it, sort of got the rights

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Speaker 1: to it, knew I couldn't work on it for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and then got into this idea of taking

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Speaker 1: this great character study of the book and grafting it

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Speaker 1: into this kind of bigger idea. When I say bigger,

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Speaker 1: I mean just that the plot of the novel is

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Speaker 1: small and byzantine. And I said to Jonathan, Hey, what

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Speaker 1: if we let lionel this great emotional relationship you create

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Speaker 1: with the character. What if we let that be a

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Speaker 1: vehicle into looking at something a little more cinematically grand,

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Speaker 1: like the dark history of New York in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: and he's he's born and raised Brooklyn Knight. He knew

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Speaker 1: the heart of his novel was the character, and he

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Speaker 1: loved the transposition, the idea of loved it. So he's

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Speaker 1: a real cinemophile. He got it. Yeah, he got it.

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Speaker 1: And and also we talked about how, you know, Chandler

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Speaker 1: wrote multiple Marlowe detective stories, and it was like, let's

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Speaker 1: take the great emotional um connection you create in this

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Speaker 1: character and let's let's send him into his next mystery. Right.

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Speaker 1: He loved that idea. And thank god, Jonathan's not only

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Speaker 1: a secure as an artist, but he also he understands

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Speaker 1: that in going to film, you're going into another medium.

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Speaker 1: You need something different. I would do a part in

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Speaker 1: a film I'll never forget. We do the movie Pearl

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Speaker 1: Harbor and Dolittle of the famous aviator. I play him

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Speaker 1: in the film and where they're shooting in l A

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Speaker 1: one day and members of his family are they're like

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Speaker 1: his granddaughter, and they're involved in some foundation or something

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Speaker 1: that keeps the flame alive of the the Doolittle memory.

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Speaker 1: And I forget what the organization was but this is

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand we shoot this movie Big Sunny Day,

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Speaker 1: where they are shooting at I forget where we were,

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Speaker 1: and I walk up to him and I go, so,

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Speaker 1: how's it going. You're enjoying watching the movie? And she goes, yes,

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Speaker 1: but Granddad would never do that. He would never talk

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Speaker 1: to people that way, the way you're doing that. And

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Speaker 1: I was on the tip of my tongue. I want

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Speaker 1: to go and this is true of men who had

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Speaker 1: to be built a certain way to fit into the

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Speaker 1: cockpits of those planes. And they were a little bantams.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to say, you know, if we really

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Speaker 1: were going after the whole granddad thing, Bob Balabanda, we're

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Speaker 1: playing your granddad, not me. I'm about, you know, sixty

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Speaker 1: pounds heavier than your granddad and at least so now

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Speaker 1: I don't want to meet the people. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to know the people I'm gonna go in there, just

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Speaker 1: you know. My point is is that when you said

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Speaker 1: about Leatham in the book, well, I'll say to someone,

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Speaker 1: the character in the film represents an idea in the film,

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Speaker 1: We're no I felt that way about your character. Some

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Speaker 1: people have said to me, well, clearly it's based on

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Speaker 1: Robert Moses, and you don't want to contend with that,

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Speaker 1: because yes, it's infused with Robert Moses, but it is

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Speaker 1: also there's a reason I didn't pretend that these made

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Speaker 1: up characters of Motherless Brooklyn were interacting with real historical figures,

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Speaker 1: because then you end up asked answering all these ridiculous

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Speaker 1: questions about your It's like, well, wait, did Robert Moses

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Speaker 1: really do that? Is that really true to this? And

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Speaker 1: that really happened to go? You know? This is this

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Speaker 1: is why the Wisdom to Me in You could Go Back,

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Speaker 1: Citizen Kane is about Charles Foster Kane. It's not William

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Speaker 1: Randolph Hurst. And yes it is the essence of it

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Speaker 1: is distilled, but as you know when you read about that,

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Speaker 1: they infused quite a few details in that story from

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Speaker 1: other people's lives as well to create an essential American character. Right.

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Speaker 1: And Robert Penn Warren's great book All the King's Men,

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Speaker 1: it's about Hughie Long, but it's not about Hughie Long.

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Speaker 1: It's a made up story. That's why he made it.

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Speaker 1: Will he start and to to me um without revealing

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Speaker 1: where we know this film goes in the end. There's

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Speaker 1: a huge amount that happens in this movie that has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do whatsoever with anything that happened in Robert Moses' life,

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Speaker 1: on a plotting level, on a psycho sexual level, all

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Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. So there's distillations of the type of

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Speaker 1: person he was. There's also a weave of everything from

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Speaker 1: Strong Thermond and other you know, there's people that had

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Speaker 1: details of their lives that inspired me to kind of go,

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Speaker 1: I want to distill this into the essence of a

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Speaker 1: type of person that we as Americans have to really

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Speaker 1: think about. How much of them were willing to tolerate?

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Speaker 1: And when he saw the movie, what kind of reaction

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Speaker 1: did you get? He that that was one of my

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Speaker 1: most nervous days. Uh. You know, there was like the

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Speaker 1: day I when you showed up on set and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know his lines. No, I'm kidding. I did the

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Speaker 1: best I can with what I have showing it to

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Speaker 1: leave him. I was nervous, and he was great. He

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Speaker 1: was very very emotional about it. It was very gratifying

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Speaker 1: um for him. I think it was you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like you've you've done a thing and then the thing

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Speaker 1: has refracted and become a whole other thing. And I

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Speaker 1: think he was artistically really thrilled when you had the book.

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Speaker 1: Over the ark of the time you had the book,

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Speaker 1: was here a moment you threw in the talent said

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm going to do it. I had

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Speaker 1: I had a couple of moments of feeling like I

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Speaker 1: was done Quyhote and tilting it wind mills and you know, well,

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Speaker 1: because we have kids who were the same age and stuff,

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Speaker 1: you get into this chapter of your life and you

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Speaker 1: just say, how much am I willing to bend our

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Speaker 1: lives around a mirage? Right? Like? Am I going to

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Speaker 1: keep us on the camels going towards the mirage? Are

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Speaker 1: we going to are we going to am I gonna

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Speaker 1: not do other work? Am I going to like say no,

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Speaker 1: we can't take that trip because there's a possibility that

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Speaker 1: this might come together. You know, it starts to get

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Speaker 1: into a real like life priority crosses over into neurosis, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or ego or or but I think you know, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I mean I really think and uh, I'm not flipping

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Speaker 1: around on you, but you You've said to me, I'm

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Speaker 1: doing this thing on Saturday nights as if it can't

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Speaker 1: coexist with the you that we all came up on. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I saw you in Streetcar, Yeah, you know, Glen Garry,

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Speaker 1: Glenn Ross, these things that became for us really iconic

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Speaker 1: moments of of what I'd call like the you know,

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Speaker 1: dark um way do you think Miami Blues, which I

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Speaker 1: was always a big fan of, but them, to me,

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Speaker 1: this notion that just because you're functioning in a certain

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Speaker 1: gear let's call it the smiley off of the Greek mask,

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Speaker 1: that the other thing doesn't coexist, and that it's not

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Speaker 1: more interesting because it coexists. That's the thing is to me,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's not even that they cancel each other out,

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Speaker 1: it's that they become more interesting when they're both there, right,

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Speaker 1: because that's more true. There's a lot of dark stuff

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Speaker 1: going on under a lot of people's smiley narratives right.

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Speaker 1: To me, one of your most interesting sessions in here

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Speaker 1: was the one you put up after it all broke

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Speaker 1: the Schneiderman. I guess you did, and I thought the way, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the way you lead that in with Hey, we've we've

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Speaker 1: had these conversations with someone, We've had a conversation in

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Speaker 1: a gear that is we're connecting with a conscious humanist,

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Speaker 1: progressive yeah and um. And then there's this thing going

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Speaker 1: on unseen by almost anybody, right, that's so dark, and

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Speaker 1: you just constantly forced, I think, to grasp this idea

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Speaker 1: of there's a narrative in a ark, in life and

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Speaker 1: in our lives individually, and then there's the shadow narrative,

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Speaker 1: this thing that's going on underneath it. And it's very

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Speaker 1: very rare that we find ways into having honest conversations

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Speaker 1: about how we integrate those two things, right, because that's

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Speaker 1: that's like the argument. It's the argument inside ourselves privately.

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Speaker 1: You think about anyone we know who we know has

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Speaker 1: a measure of quality, admirable quality as a human being,

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Speaker 1: and he's doing stuff that is uh, either you know, detestable, unforgivable, whatever.

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Speaker 1: We know that person is having an argument inside themselves. Right,

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Speaker 1: We're having that argument as a country. We're having to

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Speaker 1: say to ourselves, Hey, we have to be able to

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Speaker 1: hold the ideal, we have to be able to still

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Speaker 1: take pride in our engagement with the ideal, but we

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Speaker 1: absolutely have to confront the the shadow narrative. We have

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Speaker 1: to be honest about what we are do win that's

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Speaker 1: antagonistic to what we're saying. That was movie star, director

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Speaker 1: producer Edward Norton. Another great actor whose career spans the

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Speaker 1: then and now of old school movies and streaming television

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Speaker 1: is Michael Douglas. You know, if I get one more

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Speaker 1: drunken guy from the street, hey, man is good. You're

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Speaker 1: the man. You're why I got into this business and

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Speaker 1: everything I quo it. Hey, you know, that's what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: The rest of my interview with Michael Douglas is in

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Speaker 1: our archive at Here's the Thing, dot org ed Norton

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Speaker 1: on his favorite directors coming up next. I'm Alec Baldwin

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Speaker 1: and you were listening to Here's the Thing. To keep

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Speaker 1: up with the next part of the show. Here's what

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Speaker 1: you need to know about some of Edward Norton's movies.

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Speaker 1: Fight Club was directed by David Fincher. American History X

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Speaker 1: was directed by Tony Kay, who took out full page

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Speaker 1: ads and Variety complaining he'd been knifed in the back

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Speaker 1: after the studio gave Norton final cut on the film.

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Speaker 1: And The People Versus Larry Flint was directed by one

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Speaker 1: of Norton's heroes, the late milosch Foreman born in communist Czechoslovakia.

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Speaker 1: You know, he came out from behind the Iron Curtain

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Speaker 1: and landed in America and then made these definitive films

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Speaker 1: about individual spirit pushing back against depression, right Cuckoo's Nest

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Speaker 1: and Ragtime and Amadeus, and he just made like film

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Speaker 1: after film after film that you know, they set the

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Speaker 1: bar very high. They were like, wow, you can you

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Speaker 1: can take things that no one would call a traditional

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Speaker 1: commercial story and make these great pieces of art out

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Speaker 1: of them. And the thing was came to him having

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Speaker 1: made very few films, and I still kind of considered

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Speaker 1: myself more of a you know, my my life had

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Speaker 1: been in theater. The funny thing is the first two

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Speaker 1: films I did, we did kind of do them in

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Speaker 1: a way where we made the scenes work in the room, right,

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Speaker 1: They worked in the room. And what what he Allen

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Speaker 1: shoots a lot of single takes, so it has to

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Speaker 1: it works as one. I got on there with me

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Speaker 1: Losh and realized that he would shoot in this very

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Speaker 1: open ended, improvissational way. He would let things change and shift,

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Speaker 1: and then he wouldn't cover it from the other side.

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Speaker 1: And I started to get this anxiety. Like he would say, great,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's move and I would say, but nothing happened,

425
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: like we never we never got anything. It didn't work.

426
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: The scene was never played. And he would kind of

427
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: look at me like, what do you think this is?

428
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: This is you know, he said, this is not We're

429
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: not doing play. He goes, I am, he said to me,

430
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: when time he goes, I am a man with a

431
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: pick X and there's a cliff and I must take

432
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: the clay from the cliff. I'm not making sculpture. I

433
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: make sculpture later, you know. And I was thinking I

434
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: might be on the first Milish Foreman film where he

435
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: has lost the plot completely. I'm going to be in

436
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: the first really bad Milosh Foreman film. Because I would

437
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: see him move on from things I could not, for

438
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: the life of me think how he was finished. And

439
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: I happened to have free time and he let me

440
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: in on the editing process, just not to be just

441
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 1: to literally. I would bring him. I would bring him coffee,

442
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, just to watch, and I began to

443
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: realize that he was his he was a master of

444
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: casting and and one of the greatest editors ever. He

445
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: would take things that had never happened and create He

446
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: would create scenes out of raw material that had never occurred.

447
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: And I it was this enormous awakening to the plasticity

448
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: of film. I realized that when you're an actor, you're

449
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: just giving a director raw material to work with, and

450
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: you have to hopefully you trust them in a devotional

451
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: way because you are surrendering, You're surrendering clay to them.

452
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: And I remember Mike Nichols saying, the reason you love

453
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: Jeremy Irons was that if he had a bad idea,

454
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: he knew that Jeremy Irons would give it the full

455
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: force of his talent so that he could get off

456
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: the bad idea because he would say to himself, Jeremy

457
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: gives me everything, and if he can't make it work,

458
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: then I know it's a bad idea, right, And that

459
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: was that was very profound because I think obviously we

460
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: all get into situations where maybe there isn't trust, and

461
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: so we defend, we protect, we resist, Yeah, we shut down,

462
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: but in that happy circumstance when you're with when you're

463
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: with in a trusting relationship, you serve, You really do

464
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: just serve. And if the guy says you know, when

465
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: we were doing Birdman in your wo we could sometimes

466
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: come in and go, guy, this guy's guys, it's got

467
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: to be you know this, it's too white. It has

468
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: to be black, you know. And we would do black

469
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: for a while and then he would come back and

470
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: he would say, no, guys, what are you doing? It's

471
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: all black. I was telling what has to be white?

472
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: And I said it was the other you know, And

473
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: you realize he's having a conversation with himself, not with

474
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: not with you, and and that what you wanted to

475
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: do is serve the debate he's having with himself and

476
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: give him whatever he needs. It's kind of a happy

477
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: place to be when it's going like that, right. But Fincher, well,

478
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: he's more talented across more divisions of filmmaking than anyone. Yeah,

479
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: he's He's as great a cinematographer as any cinematographer. He's

480
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: a great editor. He's annoyingly great with a line reading,

481
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. He's funny and sometimes you

482
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: have one of those moments like it was sort of

483
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: the like, hey, you know, you're you're feeling each other out,

484
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: and at some point on that movie, I was like

485
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: I was running in wing tips and underwear, and and

486
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: I was maybe I was, I was probably leaning into

487
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: the to the farce of it a little bit too much.

488
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: Maybe Anyway, he comes over and he just goes a

489
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: little less Jerry, a little more Dean. And that was

490
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: and I instantly I was like, that's all we have

491
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: to say the rest of this movie. That's the key

492
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: to the whole movie. I want to say this about

493
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: Fincher because it had a big impact on making Mothers Brooklyn.

494
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: There are times when being a director requires a certain

495
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: amount of almost sociopathic lack of empathy for other people's stresses.

496
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: There are many demands, money's going out the door, time

497
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: is running down, and you feel stress in other people

498
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: you there's no way that won't happen. And one of

499
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: the things I learned, with not a shred of of

500
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: sarcasm in this about was that Fincher was amazing at

501
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: facing down the dresses of others in defense of the

502
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: aesthetic value that he knows. And there were many, many times,

503
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: even within this massive hundred and thirty days shoot where Fincher,

504
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: you know famously he does a lot of takes. Early

505
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: on I decided I already know this about him, whatever

506
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: it is that he's chasing. I have seen the result

507
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: in his films. They have a hypnotic visual elegance that

508
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: I have not seen equaled. And so whatever he takes,

509
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: if he needs thirty five, I have to find the

510
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: way to stay in gear for thirty five. Right. But

511
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: I would say one of the things that I observed

512
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: watching him and nobody is him, but you do realize

513
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: that when he says we're not done because a move

514
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: of the camera where it bumps in the middle that

515
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: everyone else says that doesn't matter, he knows it matters.

516
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: And there are times when you have to say to

517
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: everyone else who thinks you're done, we're not done. You

518
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: have to see the portrait of what a person looks

519
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: like who's standing firm within reason, you know what I mean?

520
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: So um tony kay, Now, I only asked me. Obviously,

521
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: that was a contentious thing and it talks about how

522
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 1: that was a tough set and everything. But did he

523
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: help you with an act? But see here, this is

524
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: this is interesting and I don't want to sideline on

525
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: it too much, but I think you know, you kind

526
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: of hinted at it. But we're living in this age

527
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: where clickbait journalism likes to create headlines, and before it

528
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: was even clickbait, entertainment press was doing their version of it.

529
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: People like to manufacture antagonism because it sounds like a

530
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: good story, whether or not it in fact existed. So

531
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: the very fact that, even down the chain of it all,

532
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: what's come to your head is that it was a

533
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: tough set, right, that's what you just said. That, that's

534
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: just there's not a spread of truth in it. We

535
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: were We worked center just stickally. He Tony is a

536
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: great photographer. He lit and shot and operated the film himself,

537
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: and he had a great gift for a visual sensibility

538
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: and why what I would call a very pure meter

539
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: for just a kind of a gutsy, visceral thing. He

540
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: never professed to a shred of experience with or or

541
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: even I don't want to say interest in He did

542
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: not want to control narrative, right. He David, my friend

543
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: David McKenna, and then with me. We had worked on

544
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: that script for a long time, and he ceeded that

545
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: to us. He he was like, you guys are good

546
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: at this. I know what to do with it, blah

547
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: blah blah. And we worked hand in glove together through

548
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: a very vital, very guerrilla kind of a shoot. Um.

549
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: There was many, many many times throughout where great film. Yeah,

550
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: we had truly lovely moments together. I remember Tony, He's

551
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: very emotive and one time he cried and hugged me

552
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: and said, you know, I've I've never felt so supported.

553
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: I've never had a collaborative experience like this, and and

554
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: I felt the same. I thought he was a very

555
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: intuitive things what went on turned into this thing as

556
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: if it was about me and him. He got into

557
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: I would call it a fear of release that he

558
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: he was very He cared a lot and in a

559
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: really difficult time finishing things. I'm bringing up in spite

560
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: of what people had said, Yes, you can tell. That's

561
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: why I'm saying it. I can, and I want to,

562
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: and I know for a fact he's told people he's

563
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: very proud of it. In the end, I am I

564
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: just think people. I think people they want to distill

565
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: some sort of negativity in into situations that are complex.

566
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: And I think you know this too, you knowiced. But

567
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: the funny thing is is what's strange about it to

568
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: me is work, work on things done with passion is

569
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: going to produce people contending with each other, right ideas

570
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: are gonna are gonna bump up against each other and

571
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: burnish each other. They're gonna test each other and they

572
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: will refine the thing. People get through those experiences together

573
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: and generally shake hands and thank each other for the work.

574
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: It's not about you, it's not about the ego, it's

575
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: not about the thing. It's like, this is how we

576
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: do the thing that makes it good. And most people

577
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: come out the back. Most people who know what they're

578
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: doing come out the back side of that and celebrate

579
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: that in each other, and then other people turn it

580
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: into some bs argument. Well, let me let me say

581
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: two more things. One is that, um, you know, one

582
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: of the I tell young actors, I say, one of

583
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: the worst traps you can fall on is that time

584
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: goes by and you work with anemic directors, and you

585
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: work with directors who don't offer you much in film

586
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: and television, and you become as we must self directing.

587
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: That not that you've stealed yourself against collaborating with a

588
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: good director. You forgot how, you've forgotten how to do it.

589
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: So you come and the worst thing that can happen

590
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: to is you have a good direct who wants to

591
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: work with you and shape you, and then you're tight

592
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: and you don't let it and you don't let him in.

593
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: You don't have to let him in, right, No, I

594
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: think that's very true. The opposite is if there's a

595
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: situation you can smell now through experience is going to

596
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: lead to situations where then stay away from it, you

597
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Then then say no, don't, don't

598
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: get suck, and also build your own tribe. You know.

599
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: That's to me the a big part of the appeal

600
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: of directing is honestly, like, I don't know if you

601
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: feel this, but you had Dirty Rock, which to me

602
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: is like, that's that repertory. It's like having your own

603
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: repertory company, right, It's something very special. I think all

604
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: actors in some part of themselves want that. They want

605
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: it's that dream of being part of a troop, right people.

606
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: You know, it's like in West's in Rushmore the Max

607
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: Fisher players. We all want to be in the Max

608
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: Fisher players, you know what I mean? And when, and

609
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: by the way, that's why a lot of us will

610
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: show up and do small parts when it's our turn

611
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: to have a small part or a bigger part. It

612
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: doesn't matter because you're in it. You're in the troop,

613
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: and it's a wonderful place to be. Like it really is.

614
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: I've often felt like, you know, you look at the

615
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: Cohen's or or people who have these long term alliances.

616
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes I always thought like I'd like the pleasure of that.

617
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: But one of the things about directing is you you

618
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: get to create your troop. Like people talk about Orison Wells,

619
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: they forget the guy was a kid. He was twenty

620
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: five years old when he made that film. And what

621
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: did he do. He took all of the Mercury theater

622
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: players from his archaeo radio days and his w P

623
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: and he pulled him into the film. Agnes Moore, hell

624
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: you never heard of and they're amazing right And for me,

625
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: motherless Brooklyn, I would say, honestly, one of the greatest

626
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: joys of it was I looked at my roster of

627
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: New York theater actors that I've known in many cases

628
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: for twenty years, twenty five years done plays at the

629
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: twenty ninth Street rep with done plays, and said, I

630
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: know that guy's great, I know she's great. I know

631
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: Alex great. Williams. Great, These are my These are my

632
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: people that I've already got shorthand with, and I'm gonna

633
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: pull him together and make ap F and ensemble of

634
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: the actors I get on with and love. And it

635
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: was pure pleasure for me, even among the stresses. Who's

636
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: the person on the set, off the set, anywhere in

637
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: the whole configuration, who's helping you protect your performance? I

638
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: directed the film once I hated the experience, and the

639
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: person that was most underserved acting wise was it was me?

640
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: How did you prevent against that? Who was your voice?

641
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: I mean? Most permit my partner Bill Migliori, who he

642
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: and I met as an actor, We met as actors,

643
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: and he's a terrific actor. He's my producer on this,

644
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: on the help to keep an eye on the absolutely

645
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: like he's just a trusted you know. You glance over

646
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of a nod, a little bit of

647
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: a shake of the head like I'm not really sure. Yeah,

648
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: like you know that there's that I trusted Dick, Dick Pope,

649
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: my my great cinematony. You know, yeah, there's he thinks

650
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: and honestly, uh, I mentioned there's a guy, the guy

651
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: who plays the mayor who you you know, um steam

652
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: Roll right at the beginning of the film. Peter Lewis

653
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: is a actor I worked with when I was twenty

654
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: four in in New York on the stage. And he's

655
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: a terrific actor, and he's a teacher. He's a he's

656
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 1: an acting teacher. And I did I rehearsed my part

657
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: with him, doing the scenes with you, doing the scenes

658
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: with Willem, just to give myself some time with someone

659
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: that who I like their instincts, I like their meter,

660
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: to kind of get my own rhythm, you know, going

661
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: on and stuff like that. But there's dimensions of directing

662
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: a thing that you're in that are that are not

663
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: great for the best of the experience between actors because

664
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: you're ruining it on some level. On the other hand, though,

665
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: when you have the type of people I had, what

666
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: I loved about it was I love that feeling of

667
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: like of a company like it's it's what when we

668
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: read about Wells and these guys, the fantasy is that

669
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: we're we're all in it together, you know. And on

670
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: this film, God bless every actor in it. Everyone did

671
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: it for me for no money because they believed in

672
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: the piece. Believed in me. I told you I would

673
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: have done it for a lot less. You're You're the

674
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: only person I've ever known who said pay me less.

675
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: There's something when you when you can feel the weight

676
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: of people's conviction. That's what I was going for. You

677
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: did a great job. It was a completely thrilling and

678
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: fulfilling experience. Great actor, now, great director Edward Norton. There

679
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: were a lot of movie titles and director's names coming

680
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: at you fast in this episode. If you'd like a

681
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: list of the films Edward Norton and I discussed text

682
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: thing to seven zero one zero one. That's Thing to

683
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: seven zero one zero one, Motherless, Brooklynness out November one.

684
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the

685
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: Thing four four f