1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some.

3
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 2: Of today's best minds. And Tom Cotton.

4
00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,560
Speaker 1: Has encouraged people to quote unquote take matters into their

5
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 1: own hands when it comes to protesters. I think we

6
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: all know what that means. We have such a great

7
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,279
Speaker 1: show for you today. Professor Eddie Glad stops by to

8
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,239
Speaker 1: talk to us about his new book, We Are the

9
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 1: Leaders we have been looking for. Then we'll talk to

10
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: Anna Hockhammer about her heroic efforts to pass a Florida

11
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:40,479
Speaker 1: abortion amendment. But first we have talking points memos. Josh Marshall,

12
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics.

13
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 3: Josh Marshall, thanks for having me.

14
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 1: Such a weird, fucked up time in American life. I

15
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: was sitting there yesterday thinking about Karen McDougall and her

16
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: alleged one year relationship with Donald Trump and the catch

17
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 1: and kill scheme that brought Dave vid Pecker into all

18
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 1: of our lives, and I realized that I had forgotten

19
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 1: all of these characters from season one.

20
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny because you know, multi season or reality TV,

21
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 3: you sort of bring people back for another run. And

22
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,119
Speaker 3: I guess One of the things is, you know, people

23
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 3: do like in soap operas, they do heel turns and stuff.

24
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:21,759
Speaker 3: And you know, one of the things in the Trump

25
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 3: shows people come back as you know, they switch teams.

26
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 3: And I mean, I think that Michael Cohen still blocks

27
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 3: me on Twitter from when he was Michael Cohen. I

28
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,039
Speaker 3: almost feel like ringing him up, like in his office

29
00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,960
Speaker 3: at MSNBC now and saying, hey, why am I still blocked?

30
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,720
Speaker 3: Isn't that outdated? We certainly have a precedent that there

31
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 3: are people who they will testify but they still love

32
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 3: Trump in their heart right. And then you've got people

33
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,600
Speaker 3: like Michael Cohen who, like you're probably going to do

34
00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 3: a book party for his next book, right, you guys

35
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 3: must be tight now.

36
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 2: His entire ethos is anti Trump.

37
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, and what is it? You know, the woman

38
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 3: who was Milania's press secretary or Comm's person and then

39
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 3: was briefly Trump's Comm's person or whatever. Everybody in Trump

40
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 3: world lives at high volume and in only primary colors.

41
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 2: Yes, Stephanie Grisham.

42
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 3: Stephanie Grisham, Right, so you're not going to go back

43
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 3: to being like I was hardcore for Trump, but now

44
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,639
Speaker 3: I'm just sort of providing some subtle commentary from the margins.

45
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 3: You're just going to go mud wrestle once, mud wrestle forever, right,

46
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 3: I mean for a lot of them, you got to

47
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,680
Speaker 3: be all in whatever team you're on.

48
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree, and I guess that's true. But

49
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 1: it also like there are a few people from Trump

50
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,639
Speaker 1: world who have stayed in Trump world, right, people I'm

51
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 1: thinking of Kelly ann or the really sort of the

52
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,800
Speaker 1: political people Walt Nada has provided. You know, he could

53
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 1: probably be a very good witness, but you know he

54
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 1: has a family lawyer, one of Trump's people.

55
00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 3: Right, Well, the kind of it's a protection scheme that

56
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,600
Speaker 3: they have, that is true. But the ones that are

57
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 3: most interesting to me are you have people like Corey Lewandowski, Bannon,

58
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 3: who they go through these cycles where maybe even you know,

59
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,799
Speaker 3: Roger ston't kind of there's a number of people who

60
00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 3: like they get sent into exile, but they're always going

61
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 3: to come back. They do something bad, or they upset Trump.

62
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 1: It's even just too bad for Trump, which again I

63
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,239
Speaker 1: think we should take a moment.

64
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 3: Someone will rape someone and even Trump gets a little upset, right,

65
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 3: or I may get caught raping.

66
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 2: Someone they'll have alleged yes.

67
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 3: Well I'm not talking about that person talking about hypothetical

68
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,440
Speaker 3: sexual malfeasance, or other times it's just Trump's shooting finger

69
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,920
Speaker 3: just gets itchy, right, and that's enough. But those people

70
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 3: go into exile, but they always come back. There's that

71
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 3: kind of person too, which is you know, Bannon's kind

72
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 3: of like that. He got canned at the White House

73
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 3: and then he's been on the outs a few times.

74
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 3: But you definitely have some people who they keep at

75
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 3: it from another direction.

76
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 1: But I do think that fealty to Trump is the

77
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 1: crucial not of this situation. For example, Trump decided he

78
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 1: liked Michael Aavanatti last week because Michael Aavanati said the

79
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 1: case wasn't a good case. Like I always think about,

80
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: like if Trump wins again and sends me to Gimo,

81
00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,840
Speaker 1: like how many tweets would it take to get off

82
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,679
Speaker 1: the Gitmo transport. Well, Trump did have some very good

83
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,760
Speaker 1: ideas when it came to I can't lie.

84
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 2: I mean, there's nothing to say.

85
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,799
Speaker 3: You have a very different arc. Your arc is something happens,

86
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 3: and you've had too much of being part of the

87
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 3: woke mob, where woke has gotten too much for you.

88
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 3: And you sort of play that out and then you're

89
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 3: you know, I used to be woke, but I understand

90
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 3: I got it with Trump. So you need to have

91
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 3: a you need a you know, in Spy World Day,

92
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,159
Speaker 3: someone has a legend that's their fictitious backstory, and you

93
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,840
Speaker 3: need sort of a to create a legend to cure

94
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 3: yourself up for this switch.

95
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,919
Speaker 2: And it's called Naomi wolfing it. That is the verb.

96
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,240
Speaker 1: You've Naomi wolfed your way from normal to Tucker Carlson

97
00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,600
Speaker 1: having you as a regular.

98
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems organic to me.

99
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 2: It's not quite as craven.

100
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,320
Speaker 1: But I want to talk to you as we're looking

101
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,640
Speaker 1: at this casta characters. The House is in chaos, right

102
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: the House Republicans one, you know, they have a one

103
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 1: person majority motion to vacate.

104
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 2: Now Marjorie Taylor Green.

105
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: Luckily, Marjorie Taylor Green was able to find someone as

106
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 1: crazy as she was in everybody's favorite, Thomas Massey.

107
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 2: So now that crew.

108
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 1: Together, they have more than a one person motion to vacate.

109
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,159
Speaker 1: We got this foreign aid that is really has not

110
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, Ukraine has not gotten any money since Democrats

111
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 1: laws the House. You know, there's Taiwan, Israel, YadA, YadA, YadA.

112
00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 2: And appliance.

113
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 1: We has been postponed another week, So how can any

114
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 1: of us live?

115
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,480
Speaker 3: I don't know. I am curious to see what they

116
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,080
Speaker 3: will do with this, because it does seem like Johnson

117
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 3: wants to move past this, and you know that's why

118
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,559
Speaker 3: he went down Tomar a Lago to sort of get

119
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 3: the you know, laying on of hands and everything, or

120
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,720
Speaker 3: you know, the pallium or whatever. I do think it's

121
00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 3: possible that if obviously there is one constellation of people

122
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,280
Speaker 3: and both parties I mean a ton of people, but

123
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 3: obviously not everybody who wants to move this Israel thing.

124
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,280
Speaker 3: And there's a very different and on the Democratic side,

125
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 3: much more intense desire to move on the Ukraine stuff.

126
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 3: So I do think that you could get some Democrats,

127
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 3: probably with the permission of the leadership, to say, let's

128
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,479
Speaker 3: do this and we will cover you for that vote.

129
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 3: The problem is that you can't as low an impression

130
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 3: as I may have of Marjorie Taylor Green, she's not

131
00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 3: so dumb that she doesn't know she can't wait to

132
00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 3: wak can do it again? And Democrats don't become a

133
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 3: permanent backstop for him. Johnson is a complete freak. Democrats

134
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 3: just who cares, you know, for me, it's like Trump's

135
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 3: social stock going down, right, it's probably every day for me. Right.

136
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 3: But having said that, the Ukraine stuff especially is so important.

137
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,119
Speaker 3: It's obviously important for Ukraine. It's very important.

138
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 1: For Poland, which would like to not be annext.

139
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 3: It's very important for the whole North Atlantic alliance. It's

140
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 3: important in the context of the macro contest in the

141
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 3: world today between civic democracies and authoritarian regime. So that

142
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 3: is just a big deal. And the Israel stuff is complicated,

143
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 3: but you know, Israel has an army. They're not kind

144
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 3: of using rubber bands at the moment, and Ukraine is

145
00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 3: using a rubber bands. So that's just absolutely critical. And

146
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 3: to the sen I had any input on it, Yeah,

147
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 3: throw them a bone. If you can get this done,

148
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 3: that would be my take.

149
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

150
00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,000
Speaker 1: I mean it is interesting though to see this Republican party,

151
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, they really want to keep the house. There's

152
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 1: a reason that Trump has spent one hundred million dollars

153
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: on legal fees is because ultimately he really did not

154
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 1: want to be tried. And you know, he's sitting in

155
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 1: a criminal court. He's going to be there now, the judges,

156
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,800
Speaker 1: he has to go every day. There's so many things

157
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 1: I want to talk about when it comes to this.

158
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 1: One is like the geop smear that, like the lie

159
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 1: that he can't go to Baron's graduation though even though

160
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 1: the judge told him he could actually go to Baron's

161
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 1: graduation and he never went to any of the other

162
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 1: kids graduations, Like that wasn't amazing.

163
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 3: Baron's like the son he never had except for Don

164
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 3: and Eric.

165
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and right, it's that fifth kid. But I mean

166
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,960
Speaker 1: I also think that, like he needs to be in

167
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 1: court now, and we spend so much time being told

168
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: that this was the quote unquote weakest case. I'm sitting

169
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,200
Speaker 1: there and the guy looks terrified when he's not asleep.

170
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 2: They're drudging up all this salacious stuff from his past.

171
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's ben Ghazi on steroids, And some how

172
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,839
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to believe that this is not as good

173
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 1: a case as the documents case. Like I have to say,

174
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 1: like this seems like actually, if you're going through like

175
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,080
Speaker 1: permeating the news membrane, this seems like a much more

176
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 1: salacious case than taking home some documents.

177
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,679
Speaker 3: It's definitely sexier, I mean, except for the fact that

178
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 3: of Trump getting involved right than the documents. But I

179
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 3: do think what it also reminds us is that no

180
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 3: felony indictment is fun. Even when you didn't try to

181
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 3: overthrow the government, it still kind of sucks. You are

182
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 3: kind of in the hands of the judicial system. It

183
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 3: reminds us, you know how they say, you know, even

184
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 3: bad sex is okay, every trial is bad, even the

185
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 3: less important felonies really suck. And we're seeing that there

186
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 3: are just the atmospherics to being tried by the people

187
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 3: of New York or the state or whatever. Trump is

188
00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:00,560
Speaker 3: a man of dominance, and when you are bound over

189
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 3: by the state to answer felony charges that you might

190
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,839
Speaker 3: lose your liberty for if you are convicted, you are

191
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 3: not dominant. You are being dominated. And there is a

192
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,080
Speaker 3: reality to that that you can't spin. And I think

193
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 3: that that is why, in addition to not wanting to

194
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 3: maybe go to prison, that is why he has resisted

195
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 3: this because it is again his whole world is there

196
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 3: are dominated and dominating, and everybody is in one bucket,

197
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,880
Speaker 3: and most of us live in a much more fluid

198
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 3: world where you know, we actually have some relationships that

199
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,920
Speaker 3: are on par you're dominated or you're dominating, and he's

200
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 3: being dominated here, and I think you just you see

201
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,839
Speaker 3: it when you see him there, right, Yeah.

202
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean I would also add that like Trump is

203
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 1: being treated I mean, except for the fact that he

204
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 1: doesn't get thrown in jail when he violates the gag order,

205
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: but he.

206
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 2: Is being treated much more like a normal person.

207
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,440
Speaker 1: I mean. One of the things that Trump has managed

208
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 1: to do because he grew up affluent and white and male,

209
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 1: though probably female.

210
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:08,960
Speaker 2: Too, he would have had this advantage.

211
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: But as an affluent white person, he has really managed

212
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,880
Speaker 1: to evade responsibility for almost anything, and then having this

213
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,080
Speaker 1: political component has really helped him. I mean, you know,

214
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 1: I think about like the valuation stuff, the fraud, Like

215
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: I know someone who went to jail for that, a

216
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 1: fancy real estate person.

217
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,079
Speaker 2: I mean, you can go to jail for that, and

218
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:30,840
Speaker 2: you can.

219
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 1: Go to jail for cheating on your taxes, which Trump

220
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 1: has also, you know done. I mean, Trump has done

221
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that a normal person would have

222
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 1: gone to jail for.

223
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,280
Speaker 2: And so I do.

224
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: Think the idea here that he has to sit in

225
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,479
Speaker 1: a courtroom on Mondays and Tuesdays and Thursdays and Fridays,

226
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 1: even though it's golf season. You know, the other thing

227
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,080
Speaker 1: that I think is a really interesting thing is that

228
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 1: he's not out on the trail like he wasn't out

229
00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 1: on the trail before, and now you know this is

230
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,559
Speaker 1: going to prevent him from getting on the trail.

231
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, this is almost the part where the

232
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,840
Speaker 3: one place I'm almost vaguely sympathetic to him is he

233
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 3: can say, we all knew I was invulnerable. We had

234
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,679
Speaker 3: a deal. Of course, I'm not responsible for anything. I've

235
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 3: been doing ridiculous stuff my whole life. We had an understanding,

236
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,320
Speaker 3: and suddenly you've broken the understanding, and the reality is

237
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 3: we kind of did have an understanding. In the New

238
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 3: York real Estate Trump fantasy world, he's a notorious con

239
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 3: man and just shark and kind of comical figure, and

240
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,559
Speaker 3: everybody just kind of laughed. Again. In a certain sense,

241
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 3: I almost think he's right in the sense that someone

242
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 3: changed the rules on him. You know, it's funny that

243
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 3: I had a tax question and I was talking to

244
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 3: our accountant. It reminded me that, you know, I have

245
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,559
Speaker 3: always been with a relentlessly honest accountant, but in addition

246
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,200
Speaker 3: to that, I have always been just sort of like,

247
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 3: do whatever it is that is squeaky clean, right, I

248
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 3: wanted to squeak And part of that, I think is

249
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 3: because I'm an honest person, but also like I'm in

250
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 3: a controversial business and I can't be screwing around. Most

251
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 3: people don't cheat on their taxes and all that kind

252
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,240
Speaker 3: of stuff, and as you say, Trump has just always

253
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 3: done that. The weirdest thing with this, you know, the

254
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 3: basic argument, Hey, I had an affair, Like you know,

255
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 3: covering up your affair is almost part of having the affair.

256
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,560
Speaker 3: What are we talking about here? But like Michael Cohen

257
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 3: already served time in prison over this, and don't tell

258
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,640
Speaker 3: me this is a joke. When someone else literally didn't

259
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 3: go to jail for something like this, he went to

260
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:34,839
Speaker 3: jail for this.

261
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good point.

262
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I too overpay my taxes because of anxiety

263
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 1: and also because I just figure it's better to overpay

264
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: than to not as well we should. But I do

265
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: think that Trump avoiding responsibility and sort of living in

266
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 1: this complete fantasy land where you just get to do

267
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 1: what you want to do because you don't want to

268
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,080
Speaker 1: upset his people is completely crazy.

269
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 2: And I will add that.

270
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: A friend of mine who is a straight reporter, was like,

271
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 1: when you know, it's kind of maybe they shouldn't have

272
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,239
Speaker 1: brought these charges because the president's hide affairs.

273
00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, you can't do this.

274
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 1: You can't once you you know, the idea that if

275
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 1: your president, you can just do whatever the fuck you

276
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,840
Speaker 1: want is how democracies die.

277
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 2: Democracies die in this.

278
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 3: Well, and look, this is not because he had an

279
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 3: affair or whatever you want to call the stormy thing, right,

280
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 3: I mean, that's like how we call that an affair.

281
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,280
Speaker 3: I mean an affair has to at least lasts longer

282
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:35,960
Speaker 3: than five minutes.

283
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,600
Speaker 2: Right, Well, also had a girlfriend at that time.

284
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 3: Right, right, he's double stepping out. But yeah, look, is

285
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 3: falsifying documents up there with trying to overthrow the government

286
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 3: or jacking a few tons worth of classified No it's not.

287
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 3: But you actually just can't do that. And this is

288
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,800
Speaker 3: one of the weird things the of the Trump reality

289
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 3: distortion vortex is that you don't get to falsify documents.

290
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 3: There are cases where the underlying substance of what you

291
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 3: are falsifying isn't earthshaking, but you still can't falsify them.

292
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 3: But what you also can't do is should we bring it?

293
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 3: Because what are the optics of? Like, no, that's just

294
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? But it really is an example.

295
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 3: When Trump gets into the mix, people just start thinking

296
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 3: weird things, just strange things like what are you talking about?

297
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 3: Or like should we bring this because we're already bringing

298
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 3: three other ones and this one's weaker. So maybe when

299
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 3: you average them out, the average will become weaker. And

300
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 3: you just have to whoever's saying they have to look

301
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 3: at them and say, dude, what are you talking about?

302
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,920
Speaker 3: Like what the average? Like you committed a bunch of crime?

303
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 3: You think about that? I mean, one of the big

304
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 3: reasons I don't cheat on my texts is it'd be

305
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 3: too terrifying to me to be like in Trump's position.

306
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 3: So I just I just go in and say, just I,

307
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 3: let's not screw around because Josh is fraid.

308
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 2: Yes, Josh Marshall, I hope you'll come back.

309
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 3: I would love to come back as always much.

310
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 1: Fun spring us here, and I bet you are trying

311
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 1: to look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable

312
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 1: all new fast politics merchandise we just opened a news

313
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 1: store with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

314
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:25,200
Speaker 1: and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

315
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 2: Eddie Glode is the James S.

316
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 1: McDonald Distinguished University Professor at Princeton University and author of

317
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 1: We Are the Leaders We have been looking for the

318
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 1: web Dubois Lectures. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Eddie.

319
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 4: Well, it's such a delight to be with you and

320
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 4: to have witnessed, Mollie, the way in which you are

321
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 4: in so many ways helping you know, the nation understand

322
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 4: the stakes of this moment. You're writing at Vanity Fair

323
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 4: and across the various platforms. It's just I've learned so

324
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 4: much from you every single day, so I appreciate you.

325
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a very big fan of yours.

326
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of your work, but I'm also

327
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 1: a big fan of the kind of thinker you are

328
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: and sort of more importantly, the people you know, the

329
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,199
Speaker 1: historical figures that you've brought back into the discourse. So

330
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about your book, but first I

331
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 1: want you to talk a little bit about some of

332
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 1: the really I think important ways you've brought Because you

333
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 1: are an academic and a historian, a history back into

334
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 1: the forefront, and I'm actually thinking about James Baldwin.

335
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 4: I was really surprised by the successive beginning. Again, I

336
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 4: knew Baldwin was in circulation among activists. I saw quotations

337
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,680
Speaker 4: from his work all over the place during Black Lives Matter.

338
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 4: And I've been teaching Baldwin for so long and writing

339
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,639
Speaker 4: with him and about him for so long that I

340
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,640
Speaker 4: thought it was time for me to try to think

341
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,919
Speaker 4: with him about our current moment. And so I was

342
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 4: just so delighted to see how people responded to my

343
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 4: particular reading of him. And here we are on the

344
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,199
Speaker 4: eve of his one hundredth birthday in August second, and

345
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 4: it's wonderful to witness people taking his thinking seriously, not

346
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 4: just his presence, his fiction, but to really see how

347
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 4: he's thinking about democracy. You know, I think he's the

348
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 4: inheritor of Emerson. And so what I've tried to do

349
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 4: over the course of my time in the broader public domain,

350
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,159
Speaker 4: Molly is to try to bring the full weight of

351
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 4: my bibliography to bear on these pressing issues, to think

352
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 4: carefully in public with others, and not to lose sight

353
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 4: of you know, my specific skill set. You know, sometimes

354
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 4: when academics make the transition into the broader public discourse,

355
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 4: they think they need to leave themselves behind. What I've

356
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 4: tried to do is to figure out how to think

357
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,199
Speaker 4: carefully within the limits and confines of a SoundBite. And

358
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 4: oftentimes that means bringing in tow all of these people

359
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 4: who mean so much to me, like Jay Balden.

360
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I read a lot of like Baldwin and

361
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: Gorbadal and people who are you know, the sort of

362
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: like great writers of the you know, they're different generation.

363
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 2: They're not the same generation, I think, but the people.

364
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 1: Who sort of wrote really beautiful lyrical work I'm thinking of.

365
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 1: And Baldwin was one of those writers who just had

366
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 1: an incredible voice.

367
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 4: Oh yeah on the page.

368
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 3: You know.

369
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 4: He comes out of the church, so he's a childhood preacher.

370
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 4: So there's this sense in which the way the language.

371
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 4: You know, he's a student of you know, the King

372
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,959
Speaker 4: James Bible. He's a student of Henry James. He's sitting

373
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 4: in Shakespeare, even if it's a kind of vexed relationship.

374
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,439
Speaker 4: He you know, he's reading you know, a Proost and

375
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 4: Emerson and Whitman. He's listening to the blues. So there's this,

376
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 4: There's a unique timbre to his voice and the delicate

377
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 4: balance he he strikes on the page between rage and love,

378
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 4: you know, gives his a sense of urgency and also

379
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 4: a kind of It reveals a deep seated care about

380
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 4: the reader, about us, and I think it takes a

381
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 4: special artist to make that happen. And just think he

382
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 4: grew up poor in Harlem and willed himself into becoming

383
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 4: one of the world's greatest writers. So I'm just delighted,

384
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 4: to be honest with you, to see us catch up with.

385
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: Him in the decision to move to Paris. Yeah, I

386
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 1: think that had I been in his circumstances, I probably

387
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 1: would have done the same thing, because to be able

388
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: to live somewhere that wasn't so racist must have been

389
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: very interesting.

390
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 2: But then he decides he has to come back.

391
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think he leaves in nineteen forty eight,

392
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 4: and you know, he's not trading the American fantasy for

393
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 4: the French one. He realizes that he needed the space

394
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,679
Speaker 4: to breathe. I mean, he didn't have to deal with

395
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 4: America's assumptions about him, but he saw what was happening

396
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 4: to the Algerians in France and Paris and many of

397
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 4: his friends. So I think, you know, not having facility

398
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 4: with the language in those early days, not having a

399
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 4: lot of money, so he really turned inward, and in

400
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 4: turning inward, admit that he had to turn to the

401
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 4: United States, which was always his subject. You know, America

402
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 4: was always his subject. You need that space sometimes to

403
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 4: breathe so that you can think more clearly, so you're

404
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 4: not just out here fighting these people, right.

405
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, his struggle it feels so

406
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: much like my grandfather's struggle in certain ways, even though

407
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: they were fighting different things. So we are the leaders

408
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 1: we have been looking for. Talk to us about this book,

409
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: lecture series and how it came about, and anything else

410
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:35,199
Speaker 1: you want to tell me.

411
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I calivered these lectures about two, you know,

412
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 4: in twenty eleven, and it took me all these years

413
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 4: to return to them, to see the kind of seeds

414
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: of all of the subsequent work in some ways begin

415
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 4: again is in this text. Democracy in Black is in

416
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 4: these lectures. And you know, so much has happened since

417
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 4: that twenty eleven and now you know, Michael Brown was

418
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 4: still alive Sandra Bland was still alive. To mere Rice

419
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 4: was still alive. When I get delivered these lectures, you know,

420
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 4: we were dealing with the Obama era and in some

421
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 4: ways not the illusion of being post racial, but you know,

422
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 4: the beginnings of the spike of the betrayal, as it were.

423
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 4: And so what I wanted to do is to kind

424
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 4: of think about this need for us to take responsibility

425
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 4: for democracy right. We've been outsourcing it for too long

426
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 4: to people who claim to be prophetic or claim to

427
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: be heroes. We have to understand that democracy's well being

428
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 4: rests in our hands, and that requires of us right

429
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 4: to understand our role. And so I wanted to write

430
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 4: about that. So I wanted to think about that again,

431
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 4: and so I had to figure out me in relation

432
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 4: to all of this, And so the book is this

433
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 4: deeply introspective work about the need for every ordinary people

434
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 4: to take up the responsibility of democracy in this moment

435
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 4: and to do so for me, say this really quickly, Molly,

436
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 4: to do so within the context of African American politics

437
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 4: means that we have to resist the narrow understanding of

438
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 4: what the prophetic is. We have to resist this idea

439
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 4: of heroes that force us into postures of supplication and

440
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 4: understand the power that democracy is and has when we

441
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 4: need are its most vital expression, when everyday ordinated people

442
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 4: are its most vital expression. If that makes sense.

443
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish you could say a little more about

444
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: that idea of you know, sort of what that means,

445
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: the kind of next steps towards a multi racial democracy,

446
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: which is the dream.

447
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you know.

448
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I take up three particular figures in the book.

449
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 4: I look at Martin Luther King Junior, I look at

450
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: Malcolm X, and I end with Ella Baker. These three

451
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 4: figures are so important in my own life for how

452
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: I think about democracy, and all three of them have

453
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 4: cast these enormous shadows over how I understand myself and

454
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 4: in so many ways, the book is, as I've said,

455
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 4: it is about me coming of age as a thinker

456
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 4: in relation to these people who are so important to me.

457
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 4: But Miss Baker's understanding of what I call following the

458
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 4: theorist Sheldon Wolan, a politics of tending, a kind of

459
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 4: attention to the everyday lives of folk close to the ground,

460
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: building a sense of community that affirms the capacity and

461
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 4: dignity of everyday ordinary folk, expressing our values in our

462
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 4: social and political arrangements, electing people who reflect those commitments,

463
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 4: and understanding that those elections are just simply one moment

464
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 4: in the work that democracy requires of us, cultivating the

465
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 4: attitudes personal individual attitudes that are necessary for democratic flourishing.

466
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. Part of what I mean

467
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 4: by that, Molly, is that, you know, we got to

468
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 4: become better people. If we're going to become the leaders

469
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 4: that we're looking for, right, We've got to be better people.

470
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 4: And that means we have to build the relationships with

471
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 4: others and with ourselves so that we can release ourselves

472
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 4: from the burden of all of these noxious ideas that

473
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 4: have got and in the way of building a really

474
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 4: truly and vibrant democratic life in the country. So we

475
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 4: are the leaders we've been looking for. Aims to explore that,

476
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 4: And you know, it's a different kind of book, Molly,

477
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 4: in the sense that I'm not a historian. In the book,

478
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 4: I'm more of a philosopher. You know, I'm trained as

479
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 4: a philosopher of religion, but in the public domain, I'm

480
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 4: often read as a historian. And so this is me

481
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 4: in a different kind of voice. I'm kind of nervous

482
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 4: about it. But we'll see how folks, how folks respond.

483
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you don't need to be nervous, but

484
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: that is a really important point.

485
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: Why did you pick those three figures?

486
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean King means everything to me. You know,

487
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 4: as a young child and as a young student in

488
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 4: the eighth grade, I remember being in Miss Mitchell's history

489
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 4: class and on the coast of Mississippi and memorizing the

490
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 4: eye have a dream speech.

491
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: You know.

492
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: Back then, you know, I didn't have a tape player.

493
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 4: I had to borrow the album from the library, and

494
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 4: I remember starting it over and over and over again,

495
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 4: picking up the needle and rising that speech and being

496
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: transformed by transfigured and transformed. And then of course I

497
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 4: went to Morehouse College, King's alma Mahuter and they are

498
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 4: kind of baptized in his thinking. And so King cast

499
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 4: this amazing shadow over me. And then as I was

500
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 4: trying to find my own voice, and this is part

501
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 4: of the pain of the second chapter of the book,

502
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 4: Malcolm X became this hero of mine. You know, I

503
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 4: have my goatee as an honor to him. It's my

504
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 4: first conversion experience, right because I grew up with all

505
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 4: of this, you know, with this vexed relationship with my father.

506
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 4: And I opened the book with this, you know, this

507
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: horrific moment that he probably doesn't remember. I'm down the

508
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 4: street Molly playing hopscotch with coocious fifth grader named Angel Houston,

509
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 4: and I'm messing up on purpose because I liked her

510
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 4: and I wanted her to show me how to play

511
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 4: every single to show, you know, every time I messed up,

512
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 4: she would have to show me again, you know. And

513
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: my dad saw me playing hopscotch with this girl, and

514
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 4: he screams for me to come home. I run home

515
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 4: because I know the sound and tone that voice. And

516
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 4: in that moment, when I stepped into the fourier of

517
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 4: my father's house, he questioned my sexuality. He said, what

518
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 4: are you at? F something? And he did it in

519
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 4: front of my uncle. It's like I was experiencing this

520
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: ritual that they both went through or something. And he said,

521
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: in that moment, with this vexed relationship with the most

522
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 4: responsible man I've ever known, that I started to look

523
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 4: for heroes, people who could help me become the man

524
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 4: as I imagined myself that I was supposed to be.

525
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: And Malcolm became this figure, this hero that I was

526
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 4: looking for, and I began to lose myself in the

527
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 4: imitation of him at Morehouse. And so what I wanted

528
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 4: to do is to kind of think through him and

529
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 4: to put aside the hero and to figure out what

530
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: his life actually represents for me. Right, and I moved

531
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: from the hero to the representative figure, reading Emerson and

532
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 4: the like, and what does it mean to think of

533
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 4: Malcolm as a fallible, finite, fragile, vulnerable man as opposed

534
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: to this shining black prince. That's why he was so important.

535
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 4: And then Ellen Baker is my model for democracy. She's

536
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 4: born in Norfolk, Virginia, December thirteenth, nineteen o three. She

537
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 4: dies December thirteenth, nineteen eighty six, on the same day

538
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: she was born. She's at the center of black politics

539
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 4: in the twentieth century. She's a field secretary in the

540
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 4: nineteen forties for the NAACP, organizing NAACP chaptors in the South.

541
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: She's the first executive secretary of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference,

542
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 4: so she actually builds the infrastructure of that organization. And

543
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: of course she played a central role Molly in organizing

544
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 4: helping organize the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee after the Student

545
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: Citizens of the nineteen sixth early nineteen sixty right, and

546
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 4: at Shaw University, she helped organize a conference on April first,

547
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 4: which led to the formation of SNICK. And she used

548
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 4: to tell the SNICK of organizers Molly, as they went

549
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 4: into the south, shut up and listen. You might learn

550
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: something from these I mean, she was an amazing figure

551
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 4: in so many ways.

552
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: Is Shaw one of the women HBCUs.

553
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: Yes, it's not just women, Yeah, but one of.

554
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: Was it at that time? Gender or separate? Are now?

555
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 4: I don't think so? Oh okay, But she's this amazing

556
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 4: figure on so many levels. You know, she refused to become,

557
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 4: you know, a teacher and became an organizer, and I

558
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 4: was just blown away by her. You know, she has

559
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: a what we call a few centered politics as opposed

560
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 4: to a pulpit centered politics.

561
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: What does that mean.

562
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 4: She's more interested in the people than she is in

563
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: the preacher.

564
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's really cool. Yeah.

565
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: I mean it just seems like these three are such

566
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: really good examples of totally different ways of trying to

567
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: enact chate the same change.

568
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: Right right, And I think there are examples of what

569
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 4: we can find in ourselves. Right, We don't need prophets

570
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 4: who are anointed from on high, who come in with

571
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: that authority to tell us what we should do and

572
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: that we should follow them. We are the profits because

573
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 4: we can imagine the world as being otherwise. We can

574
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 4: imagine in that which is possible and use that as

575
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 4: the basis to critique the world. All of us have

576
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 4: the capacity to exercise prophetic imagination. We're the profits. We

577
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: don't need heroes. You know, we're in this age, Molly

578
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 4: where we're looking to you know, the Marvel heroes of

579
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 4: Iron Man and you know, the Hulk and Thor and

580
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 4: you know, I'm showing my nerdiness. We don't need those heroes.

581
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 4: Emerson made this, you know, wrote this wonderful eye. Great

582
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 4: men and women are here for the purpose of even

583
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,719
Speaker 4: greater men and women. You know. That's a pair of phraise.

584
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 4: And so when we encounter our heroes, they are revealing

585
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 4: what we are in fact capable of if we're courageous

586
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 4: enough to step into it. We're the heroes we need.

587
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 4: And then, of course, democracy at its best right is

588
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 4: when everyday ordinary people assume the responsibility for its safety

589
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 4: and security for its flourishing. So you know, although I

590
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 4: invoke the names of Martin and Malcolm and Ella, they're

591
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 4: all in the service of me, calling each of us,

592
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 4: you and me and everyday ordinary people to the task

593
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: in front of us, and that saving, salvaging, reimagining democracy

594
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 4: as such.

595
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: Oh God, I'm so worried. You are interacting with students,

596
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: Maybe not this semester, but often does it give you hope? Yes?

597
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: Good, okay, good, It's a blue soap hope though, because yeah,

598
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: our students are so burdened. They are coming of age

599
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: in a broken world and they're trying to figure it out.

600
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 4: You know, we can't put it all on their shoulders.

601
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 4: Some of them, because they understand that it's broken, Molly,

602
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 4: they're reaching for languages of order. They're attracted to the autocratic,

603
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 4: the fascistic, dictatorial currents in our politics at this moment.

604
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 4: So and then there are others who are just growthing

605
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 4: for new languages altogether. You know, they don't want to

606
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 4: find comfort in nineteenth century ideologies. You know, they're longing

607
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: for for some sense of stability and certainty and safety,

608
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: and they're willing to risk, you know, because you know,

609
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 4: there's no guarantee, so I'm hopeful, but I'm prayerful at

610
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: the same time. If that makes sense.

611
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: Yes it does, Eddie. Thank you so much. I hope

612
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: you will come back.

613
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 4: Thank you, Mollie so much for having me. I appreciate you.

614
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: Anna Hockhammer is the executive director of the Florida Women's

615
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: Freedom Coalition.

616
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Anna.

617
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. Mollie.

618
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you tell us a little bit

619
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: about how you got to be the person who got

620
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: involved in this nonpartisan super pass. Just explain what it

621
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: is and how you got involved with it.

622
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 5: In my non working on amendment for in Florida life.

623
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 5: I am a local elected official down here in Pinecrest, Florida,

624
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 5: or one of the interring suburbs of Miami. I've always

625
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 5: been a Democrat. I've always been active in local politics

626
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 5: down here and ran in twenty sixteen, ran again in

627
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 5: twenty twenty. Always been paying attention. But my meaning potatoes

628
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 5: has always been local issues, right. I do police and

629
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 5: hootholes and parks and tree trimming. I help people when

630
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 5: their garbage doesn't get picked up and their neighbors are

631
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 5: sprinkling when they're not supposed to. But I also read

632
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 5: the newspaper and I pay attention to the stuff that's

633
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 5: going on in Florida. And so when Florida started passing

634
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 5: these abortion bands, I started calling around and saying, I'd

635
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 5: heard rumors that somebody we're going to try and do

636
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: a constitutional amendment. What's going on? And long story short,

637
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 5: I found my way to Floridians Protecting Freedom, and Floridan's

638
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 5: Protecting Freedom is the umbrella organization that's the official sponsor

639
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 5: of the constitutional amendment. It's made up of stix organizations

640
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 5: right Now, Land Parenthood, the ACLU, FCIU eleven ninety nine,

641
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 5: Florida Rising, a small group out of Sarasota called Florida Voices,

642
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 5: and I ended up creating, with our chair Dona Schalela,

643
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 5: and a really couple of smart consultants, an independent path

644
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 5: called Florida Women's Freedom Coalition, because we knew that we

645
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 5: were going to have to get a pretty broad and

646
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 5: diverse coalition of voters to support amendment, for there's just

647
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 5: no way to get to sixty percent without it, and

648
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 5: we knew that we needed to create some platform within

649
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 5: Chlorines Protecting Freedom. That was single issue that was only

650
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 5: working on Amendment four that was bipartisan as opposed to nonpartisan,

651
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 5: and I really got out of my way emphasizing with

652
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 5: people that there's a significant difference between being bipartisan and

653
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 5: being nonpartisan in this space, and there was need for

654
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 5: bipartisan action that was independent of every other group and

655
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 5: independent of any other group in this space in order

656
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 5: to create a Florida coalition that would get us into

657
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 5: the end zone. And so Florida Women's Freedom Coalition has

658
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 5: made up of a lot of current and former elected

659
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 5: officials of both parties, including people with no party affiliation,

660
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 5: who believe in Amendment four, believe in access to abortion,

661
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 5: and leave all the rest to get at the door

662
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 5: all of the other civil rights, human rights, and partisan

663
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 5: issues out there so that we can all focus on

664
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 5: one thing and win it together. And so I ended

665
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 5: up being the executive director and that's what I've been doing.

666
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: So first, talk about the sixty percent threshold that Florida

667
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: has for amendments.

668
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: Talk about that first, and then I have a follow

669
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: up question on this.

670
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 5: So the sixty percent threshold, and then the Florida Constitution

671
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 5: is not new, It's been around over a decade, and

672
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 5: so you know that was part of the rules of

673
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 5: the game going into this thing. Didn't take anybody by surprise.

674
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 5: So Florida has passed some fairly progressive referendo over the

675
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 5: last decade or so at the sixty percent threshold, including

676
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 5: their districts. In order to try and deal with some

677
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 5: of the gerimandering restoring voting rights to felons, we passed

678
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 5: a constitutional amendment legalizing medical marijuana. And sometimes these things

679
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 5: blow through the sixty percent threshold. There is a certain

680
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 5: schizophrenia in Florida that everybody has to acknowledge of passing

681
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 5: these fairly capressive referenda and simultaneously voting for candidates who

682
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 5: have absolutely no intention of enacting these challasis.

683
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: Right, And in fact, that was my next question, which was,

684
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: you guys have passed referenda like restoring voting rights to felons,

685
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: and then your government has been like yeah, Now.

686
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 5: I want to be clear here that they didn't say yeah, no.

687
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: They said yeah, but it's going to cost you.

688
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 5: They said yeah, but you guys left the whole fines

689
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 5: and piece thing on the table, and so we're going

690
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 5: to use it and manipulate it. I understand that, and

691
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 5: I think anybody here in Florida understands that you're going

692
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 5: to pass and then you're going to have the fight

693
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 5: of the implementing legislation. And I also ignor a little

694
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 5: bit when I hear people get hot and bothered about that,

695
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 5: because anybody who thinks that politics is one and done

696
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 5: is living at fancasy Land. There is no such thing

697
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 5: as one and done on any issue, whether it's abortion, access,

698
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 5: voting rights, or any of the other major themes of

699
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 5: modern American politics. I certainly do not operate, and I

700
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 5: don't think anybody and the coalition operates under the misconception that,

701
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 5: you know, we're all going to win in November and

702
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 5: then everybody's just going to go home eat because the

703
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 5: problem's been solved.

704
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: Right, good point.

705
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't work that way. It just doesn't work

706
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 5: that way in politics, right. And I think one of

707
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 5: the reasons why we're in this fix across America is

708
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 5: because you know, everybody said, well, Roby ways, the law

709
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 5: of the land wonn't done right, right, But for twenty

710
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 5: five years they've been telling us exactly what they intended

711
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 5: to do, and nobody wanted to believe right it's.

712
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: A really good point.

713
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: But I also think what's important about what you just

714
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: said is that it's really about how the amendments are written,

715
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: and that's something that you have actually spent a good

716
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: deal of time focusing on right, a.

717
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 5: Lot of time focusing on the amendment that we propose

718
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 5: is forty nine words. It's two sentences every now and

719
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 5: every verb was tested, was argued over, was focus group

720
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 5: was pulled, and it turned out that the simplest, most

721
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 5: straightforward language was actually the language that hold the best

722
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 5: every single time. And unlike most constitutional amendments in Florida,

723
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 5: which oftentimes seem to be written in order to confuse

724
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 5: the electorate, there's a real fence that these amendments are

725
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 5: a bait and switch game. Ours is unique in its simplicity.

726
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 5: And that's why the language that was on the actual

727
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 5: petition form that people filled out is identical to the

728
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 5: language that's going to be on the ballot that they're

729
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 5: going to see in front of them in November. It's

730
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 5: one of our strengths, I think.

731
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping you could explain to us how you

732
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: sort of get to the sixty percent threshold in Florida

733
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: and what that would look.

734
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 5: Like the math is super straightforward, and I mean there

735
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: are a couple of assumptions that you make going into it.

736
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 5: The first is that you're going to have historically high

737
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 5: voter turnout. And I think that that's a pretty safe bet.

738
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 5: That voter turnout in twenty twenty was off the charts.

739
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 5: Voter turnout in my own community was about eighty seven

740
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 5: percent in twenty twenty. So Floridians take their November presidential

741
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 5: elections pretty darn seriously and tend to show up for that.

742
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 5: I don't think given the repeat of the Biden Trump

743
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 5: presidential race that we're about to live through, that we

744
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 5: should assume that that's not going to happen again. And

745
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 5: we need about eighty five percent of the Democrats who

746
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 5: vote to vote yes on Amendment four. We need a

747
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 5: majority of the no party affiliation voters, which is what

748
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 5: Floridians call independent voters.

749
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: And that's a pretty big group in Florida, right.

750
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 5: It's a very big group in Florida, and it's the

751
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 5: fastest growing group in Florida. And I think as we

752
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 5: see people registering to vote in the run up of

753
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 5: the primaries and then into because we have some pretty

754
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 5: significant August elections here in Florida as well. In the

755
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 5: run up to the August and in the run up

756
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 5: to the November elections, we're going to see that NPA

757
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 5: group grow again. And we need thirty five to forty

758
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 5: percent of the Republicans to vote yes on Amendment four,

759
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 5: which I think is completely within reach. The polling is

760
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 5: outstanding and over sixty percent of Republicans support Amendment four.

761
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 5: And we've even got data that shows that about fifty

762
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 5: seve percent of the Trump voters in Florida support Amntent four.

763
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: So this is ours to win.

764
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: When you're sort of talking to vote because you're in Florida,

765
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: you're in my Pine Crest is near Miami. Miami is

766
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: very swingy in a lot of ways. So you're talking

767
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 1: to voters on the right and the left. Is there

768
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: a feeling that DeSantis, like you guys have had a

769
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: real problem with inflation in a way that I don't

770
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: think anyone sort of saw. I mean, I think the

771
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: environmental stuff, yes, but the insurance stuff has really spiraled

772
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: out of control. And I'm wondering if do you see

773
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 1: that on the ground affecting voters, or do voters are

774
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: they sort of do they not tie the insurance issues,

775
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: the flooding issues, the climate change issues with their political votes.

776
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 5: That's a really good setup. I mean, I will have

777
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 5: an interesting sort of lived experience because I represent a

778
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 5: city that's voter registration is about a third a third third.

779
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 5: I was at the door for a November twenty signorance.

780
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 5: I was at the door for a November twenty twenty race.

781
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 5: As they say, the local politicians are as close as

782
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 5: you can get to the constituents because if you do

783
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 5: the wrong thing, you hear about it while you're waiting

784
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 5: in line at CBS. So I talk to a lot

785
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 5: of people about real stuff all the time. I think

786
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 5: the financial concerns are very strong in South Florida. We've

787
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 5: been the place with basically the highest inflation rate in

788
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 5: the entire nation. We've been running several percent above the

789
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 5: rest of the nation for a very long time. People

790
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 5: feel the crunch insurance is a major problem. Most people

791
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 5: understand that it's a statewide problem, but most people frankly

792
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 5: don't understand which government agency provides which service to them.

793
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 5: They just know that government, right, the big g government

794
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: somehow has failed them, and so They're willing to blame

795
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 5: almost anybody who comes to the door for their problems

796
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 5: because things are perceived as being complicated, and you know,

797
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 5: the regular Joe is perceived as always ending up on

798
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 5: the losing side. So I think that these economic motivators

799
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 5: are extremely strong. But in my personal experience, people are

800
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 5: willing to vote for candidates who agree with them on

801
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 5: policies that affect their real lives, their daily lives. And

802
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 5: as much as we like to paint thirty ends is

803
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,479
Speaker 5: completely ideological, I think, like most Americans, they just want

804
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 5: to vote for somebody who they think is listening to

805
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 5: them and responding to their problems. And abortion access is

806
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 5: one of those things that you know, knocks on everybody's

807
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 5: doors and door later because we're all making families and

808
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 5: we're all having babies, even if you're not carrying the

809
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 5: baby yourself, you know, you know, and what somebody who is.

810
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 5: So I don't believe that this is an issue that's

811
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 5: going to pack very hard on the partisan level. I

812
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 5: think it's a matter of right. You know, I'm creating

813
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 5: a very open tent and allowing people to talk to

814
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 5: their own communities and language that makes sense to them,

815
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 5: and in real ways, and as long as we have

816
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 5: a multiplicity of voices in this space, Amendment four is

817
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 5: going to way.

818
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 1: Historically, your state has been a very pro choice state,

819
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 1: largely because of the sort of swinginess of it and

820
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: also the libertarian leanings of the right in the state.

821
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: Now you're at this six week ban, which is taking

822
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: into a fact, and now it's in fact, or it's

823
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: about to be put into a fact.

824
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 2: The Supreme Court decision.

825
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: I think the Florida Supreme Court decision was interesting because, like,

826
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: you had the signatures to get on the ballot, the

827
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: fact that the judges were still like, maybe we won't

828
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: let it be on the ballot.

829
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: Isn't that a bit odd?

830
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 5: No, I don't think it's odd. I mean Florida is

831
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 5: odd in many ways that are very unique components of

832
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 5: the process of getting on the ballot. In Florida. We

833
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 5: are the only state that requires Supreme Court scrutiny of

834
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 5: the ballot language before the election. We're the only state

835
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 5: that has that. That rule is not so brand new

836
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 5: that we didn't understand that we were going to have

837
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 5: to get through the Florida Supreme Court, and we knew

838
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 5: exactly who had appointed them, and you know, obviously we're

839
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 5: paying attention to the legal philosophy of the individual justices

840
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 5: on the court. And again back in early twenty twenty three,

841
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 5: when we were writing this language, we were writing it

842
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 5: knowing that we were going to have to get through

843
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 5: the Florida Supreme Court, and given the fact that the

844
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 5: vast majority of those justices are extremely unsupportive of abortion

845
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 5: access as a general rule. The fact that we got through,

846
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 5: I think speaks to how well crafted the language is.

847
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 5: We knew exactly what we needed to do in order

848
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 5: to get through a hostile court, and we did it.

849
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 5: It's a tremendous achievement. I think it speaks to the

850
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 5: expertise as the working groups that put that language together

851
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 5: and how data driven this initiative. Haspent, I mean, Molly,

852
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 5: I cannot tell you how dubious the entire universe was

853
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 5: about our ability to get on the ballot here. I mean,

854
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 5: people thought we were just downright crazy, that Florida had

855
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 5: turned bright red, that the entire state had suddenly become

856
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 5: hostile to abortion access, that we were never going to

857
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 5: be able to raise the money. We ended up raising

858
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 5: almost eight million dollars just in order to fund the

859
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 5: petition phase. We had over two hundred grassroots groups across

860
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 5: this massive state, with thousands and thousands of volunteers. We

861
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 5: managed to collect about one point four or five million petitions,

862
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 5: that's about ten percent of all of the registered voters

863
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 5: in the state of Florida right in less than six months.

864
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 5: And we did it so quickly that we finally had

865
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 5: to have some tough conversations with our volunteer networks, telling

866
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 5: them ordering them to stand down. In December, we weren't

867
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 5: going to collect any more petitions because we were lapping

868
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 5: in the field. We feel like we were wasting money

869
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 5: in that kind of environment where everybody thought we were

870
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 5: downright crazy.

871
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: Right to continue to.

872
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 5: Hear this narrative of but but but it is a

873
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 5: little bit frustrating because what we've done every single time

874
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 5: is we've been told there's a really hard, high bar,

875
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 5: you're not going to be able to do it, but

876
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: you're welcome to try and flame out. And what this

877
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 5: coalition has done time and time again is meet that

878
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 5: bar and exceed it over and over again. And I

879
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: have trom as confidence that when given the opportunity to

880
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 5: write up vote on Amendment for Lordians are not only

881
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 5: going to get through that sixty percent, they're going to

882
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 5: blow through the sixty percent. This is not a state

883
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 5: that has a lot of trust in meddling and interfering government.

884
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 5: This is not a state that has a lot of

885
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 5: tolerance for people telling them what to do. This is

886
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 5: not a state that has a lot of tolerance for

887
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 5: the government telling them what they can and cannot provide

888
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 5: to their children. And the six week abortion ban, with

889
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 5: almost no exceptions for rape or incest, is such a

890
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 5: profound violation of Gridian's own sense of independence. You know,

891
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 5: the good old free state of Florida, that this was

892
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 5: a real moment of just not reading the room, and

893
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 5: they went so far, they revealed their ultimate intentions so

894
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 5: nakedly that I think Florida voters are just going to

895
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 5: clap back, and clap back hard.

896
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: Now the six week ban is, in a fact, floud

897
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: is an enormous state. So we're going to see the

898
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: kind of stories that we been seeing out of Texas

899
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: out of Florida, right, and guaranteed it's good affect the

900
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: way obgyn's practice in the state.

901
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: Right.

902
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 5: This is a problem that's been getting worse and worse

903
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 5: and worse ever since they passed the fifteen week ban.

904
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 5: So you've got issues with the practice of medicine. We've

905
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 5: now rolled it back to the six week ban, right

906
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 5: when most women have no idea that they're even pregnant.

907
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 5: You're going to see cases like you know, that horrific

908
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 5: case out of Ohio where you had a ten year

909
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 5: old had been raped and couldn't get abortion access and

910
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 5: her lawyer had to drive her out of state, and

911
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 5: then everybody involved was, you know, subject to possible prosecution

912
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 5: for felonies for you know, helping a ten year old rape.

913
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 5: That is going to be what happens in Florida. You've

914
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 5: got to remember the sixth week ban has language in

915
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 5: it that makes anybody who quote participates in an abortion

916
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 5: subject to arrest and conviction for a felony. Well, it

917
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 5: does not define what participating in an abortion is. If

918
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 5: that dispensing pills, is that a pharmacist, is that a doctor?

919
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 5: Is that a husband who drives his wife to an

920
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 5: appointment with her obgyn? Are we all about to be

921
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 5: rounded up and prosecuted simply helping our family members who

922
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 5: have a medical need. It's really intimidating. It's written to

923
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,959
Speaker 5: be intimidating. And on top of that, Florida the third

924
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 5: largest state of the nation four million women and girls

925
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 5: of reproductive age, a quarter million live bursts every single year,

926
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 5: the number two provider of abortion services in the nation,

927
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 5: right after California. About eighty five thousand abortions are performed

928
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 5: here every single year, the vast majority of them for

929
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 5: Floridian women's It's not that people are coming here in

930
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 5: such great numbers. We're a big state, and we can't

931
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 5: even properly train our doctors in our medical schools right now.

932
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 5: Our surgical interns have to be flown up to New

933
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 5: Jersey and New York in order to be properly trained

934
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 5: in accredited programs because you can't even teach doctors how

935
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 5: to serve patients in this state anymore.

936
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 2: It's just such an insane place to be. But here

937
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: we are. Thank you so much, Anna.

938
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 5: Look, thank you for having me. I'm happy to talk

939
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 5: about Florida anytime. My great love and obsession.

940
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 6: No more perfectly Jesse Cannon by junk Fast. One of

941
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 6: my favorite things in our business is when Republicans' ultra

942
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 6: stupid strategy leaks. When even if it didn't leak, it

943
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 6: would be stupid anyway.

944
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: So we're talking about the GOP leaders in Arizona. You'll

945
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 1: remember that Arizona has enacted this eighteen sixty. They haven't

946
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: enacted it yet, but they passed in eighteen sixties Civil

947
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: War era abortion Man. The Democrats in the Arizona State

948
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: House tried to repeal it, and the Republicans made sure

949
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: that it stayed the law. Now they're on break for

950
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: a week, but they accidentally sent the Democrats their plan

951
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: to try to defeat the ballot initiative, the pro choice

952
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: ballot initiative that Arizonians are trying to put on the ballot.

953
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: The details were revealed in a PowerPoint presentation that was

954
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: supposed to be circulated among Republicans only, but was accidentally

955
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: sent to Democratic lawmakers. Thank god, Arizona Republicans are stupid

956
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: and that, my friends, is our moment.

957
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: Of fuck Gray.

958
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

959
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

960
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

961
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

962
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening,