1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: So this week's classic episode is from twenty fifteen. This 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: is where Matt, this is where you and I are 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: exploring what is sometimes called the Hermit Kingdom. And I 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: was thinking back on this episode and so very much 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: has changed. We've been following North Korea for a while. Yeah, 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: I believe Kim Jong un came into power several years 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: before he made this episode, but not that long. He 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: was still pretty early into his reign in the DPRK 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: and I recall just exploring a lot of that dynamic, 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: the power dynamic, the family dynamic of the dynasty there. 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: And uh man, there's a lot that I learned here, 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: I would say from you Ben about the Hermit Kingdom 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: in this episode. So I'm excited to re listen. Well, thanks, Matt. 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: I am as well. Just a caveat a lot of 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: things have changed again, so please if you'd like to 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: learn more about North Korea, check out the other episodes 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: we have done on the DPR game. But this is 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: definitely the first. Seriously, this is where I learned, Like 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: everything I started learning about North Korea is because of 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: this episode. From UFOs two Ghosts and Government cover Ups. 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: History is writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to. Now. Hello, 23 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. My name is Matt and i'm Ben, 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: and today I think we should get started with a 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: little anecdote that Ben has sure all right, So, once 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: upon a tide there was a man named Kinji Fujimoto. 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: Kinji was a chef. Kenji was a sushi chef to 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: be specific, and he was quite good at his job. 29 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: But he was also a member of the Union of 30 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: Sushi Chefs, and when he was a young, adventurous man, 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: they made him a candidate for a mysterious job overseas. Now, 32 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: the rules of the union said that Knji had to 33 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: accept this job before he knew exactly what the assignment was. 34 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: And that is how Kiji Fujimoto became the sushi chef 35 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: for Kim Jong Il, the leader at the time of 36 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: North Korea. Whoa oh, but wait, Kinji confirms so many 37 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: of the stories that we are going to talk about today, 38 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: especially regarding Kim Jong Il. Now we don't want to 39 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: spoil the surprise, but we will say that he had 40 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: a seven hundred thousand dollar a year Kanyak Habit Woa 41 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: how do you consume that much? Koonyak? I you know what, 42 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. I assume it wasn't all him for everybody, 43 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: but he's yeah, this it's like ordering ease dip for 44 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: the table at all times, at all times cognac. And 45 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: let that serve as an introduction, ladies and gentlemen, you're 46 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: in the right place. We hope. Here you are again 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: with Matt Ben super producer, Noel the Madman Brown and 48 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Today, Matt, 49 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: Finally we're exploring North Korea. That's right, we're getting deep 50 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: into the DPRK. I'm excited about this one, Ben. This 51 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: is fascinating from so many angles to me, at least personally, 52 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: and we certainly hope that you find it interesting as well. 53 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: Let's get started with looking at some of the history 54 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: in how North Korea was first formed, because it's a 55 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: fairly recently formed country, right, oh, yeah, you only have 56 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: to go back to nineteen at the close or just 57 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: right at the close of World War two when Korea 58 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: the I guess the if you look at it as 59 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: a large state together at the peninsula, it was divided 60 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: up at thet parallel by the United States and the 61 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, two forces that were embattled UH in the 62 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: on the Korean Peninsula. And it's called, I said, the DPRK. 63 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: You might not know this, you might already know this, 64 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: but North Korea is officially called the Democratic People's Republic 65 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: of Korea, and it was officially established on the ninth 66 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: of September nineteen And as students of history know, during 67 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: World War Two, the Allied parties were definitely not the 68 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: friendly parties. It was more of an enemy of my 69 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: enemy kind of deal. So there was already this tense 70 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: situation between UH, the United States and the USS are 71 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: about which competing ideology would would rule the world. Unless 72 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: if if you are familiar with one of one of 73 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: your favorite things met the high Gilian dialect, right, then 74 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: then maybe that's a little bit of a false dichotomy. 75 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: But that's a different show. Here's the point. The point 76 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: is that tensions were high on the peninsula, and people 77 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: knew on both sides that this would be a flash point, 78 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: and it eventually escalated. It did just a few years later, 79 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: from forty to nineteen fifty. It escalated into the Korean War, 80 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: which lasted from nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty three. What 81 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: kind of war was this? Well, I guess it was 82 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: somewhat of a civil war between the two Korea's, because 83 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: really there they would be one unified Korea, muginous population. 84 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: But we think, and I think history has shown that 85 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: it was much more of what we would call a 86 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: proxy war between these two opposing sides. Now we we 87 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: have a video on this, but for people who haven't 88 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: seen the video, what is a proxy war? It's when 89 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: to let's say, superpowers have competing interests in one area, 90 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: and rather than sending their army at least as a 91 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: whole or their military as a whole to go fight there, 92 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: they will use let's say the indigenous people of that 93 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: area or groups that are closely related that you might 94 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: be able to exert some control over and have them 95 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: fight that battle, and then maybe you can sprinkle in 96 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit of your military 97 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: height as well, so I kind of help them out. 98 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: Similar to what's going what's happened in Afghanistan in the 99 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, right, very similar, which you can you can 100 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: see more about or you see it alluded to in 101 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: that show the Americans, which if you enjoy espionage, we recommend. 102 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: In fact, the Korean War was the first armed conflict 103 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: of the Cold War. Yeah, scary stuff. But what happened 104 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: when the fighting ended? Because this is this is something 105 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: that a lot of people don't know. There's a very 106 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: important point here. Well. One of the biggest important points 107 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: are the number of people killed. Over a million people 108 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: were killed during this conflict, not just soldiers, civilians as well. 109 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: This was so many civilians. And one of the biggest 110 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: facts that will lead into reasoning behind a lot of 111 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: the stuff we're gonna talk about is that almost every 112 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: single large, especially important building in North Korea was completely destroyed, 113 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: specifically by the U. S. Army, right, the US Air Force. Uh, well, 114 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: completely different things like the army wasn't there, It's true. 115 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, so at the close of this war, after 116 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: this this massive toll in terms of property and human life, Uh, 117 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: the sides of the conflict created an armistice. And this 118 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: armistice included a lot of things, but it was missing 119 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: perhaps the most important. So, so what kind of stuff 120 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: did this include? You're looking at a ceasefire, You're looking 121 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: at POWs prisoners of war going back to their side 122 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: um repatriation. You're looking at the demilitarized zone the d 123 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: m Z. We'll talk about that a little later. You're 124 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: also looking at basically when the fighting ended. There was 125 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: no official final treaty that was signed, No no formal 126 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: peace agreement was ever agreed upon. Yes, and that is 127 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: the most important thing that was missing, Ladies and gentlemen. 128 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: There is, technically speaking, UH, the equivalent of a cease 129 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: fire for more than fifty years between North Korea and 130 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: South Korea, between the DPRK and the r O k UH. 131 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: The strange thing about this is that so much of 132 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: what would be a formal peace agreement depends upon the 133 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: idea of reunification of the peninsula, which is something else 134 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: we can talk about, but it's it's important to remember 135 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: when you when you read this bellicoast or warlike propaganda online, 136 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: and I do recommend you visit North Korea's official news 137 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: site if you're a fan of this sort of thing 138 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: the way that I am. Um, What you have to 139 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: remember is that this is the same level of wartime 140 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: propaganda that you would see in the United States in 141 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: World War Two. You know what I mean by war 142 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: bonds or the Nazis will get you kind of stuff. Um, 143 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: so it's not it's not as crazy as it might 144 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: sound from the outside. And for the interim for a 145 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: little while after the formation here, uh, there were tough times, 146 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: but DPRK at times was more successful in some ways then. Uh. 147 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: South Korea the Republic of Korea, and it was all 148 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: under its leader who built a cult of personality. Yes, 149 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: a cult of personality is very important in this story 150 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: as well. Um, should we go into a little bit 151 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: about just the the view top down view of North 152 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: Korea again, looking at maybe population sure North Korea today, 153 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: So the population is estimated at twenty four million, nine million, Yeah, 154 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: a little under twenty five million. You'll see estimates fluctuate. Yeah, 155 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: and it's that's you know, a lot of people, especially 156 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: if you think that the entire area is listed as 157 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: forty six thousand, five and twenty eight square miles, which 158 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: is about the size of Pennsylvania. Right. Yeah, And just 159 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: for comparison, South Korea is has a population of around 160 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: forty eight million. I want to say, so North Korea 161 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: is the less populous of the two. Um, but of 162 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: the let's go ahead and say of the twenty four 163 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: million people living in North Korea. Uh. There there's a 164 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: certain population that we particularly want to talk about in 165 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: highlight in today's show, and that is the that is 166 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: the group of an estimated two hundred thousand people as 167 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: as we record this, that are in labor camps. Yes, 168 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: quanly so is what this system of camps is called? 169 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little more about it? Well, 170 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting stuff you get into. You get 171 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: placed in one of these in a couple of different ways. 172 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: Usually has to do with whether or not you are 173 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: seen as loyal to the party. Um, but maybe not 174 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: just you. It might be that your grandfather wasn't loyal 175 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: to the party, or maybe even your grand daughter or 176 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: grandson isn't loyal to the party, and you might find 177 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: yourself in one of these labor camps. So you've got 178 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: it's this really interesting thing that you're you go over 179 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: really well in the video that's that came out this 180 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: week about five things they don't want you to or 181 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: five things you might not know about North Korea. If 182 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, check it out. Um. The reasons 183 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: is so interesting to me is that I've never heard 184 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: of this before. I've never heard of this happening. And 185 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: you had mentioned to me earlier that their Confucianism might 186 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: play a part in the reasoning behind this process. Yes, uh, 187 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: Confucianism does play a part to some degree. What what 188 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,479 Speaker 1: we're talking about here is the idea of intergenerational punishment. 189 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: So this could mean that you are in a labor 190 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: camp not only for a crime that you yourself did 191 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: not commit, but maybe a crime that you are not 192 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: aware of one of your relatives committing. And a crime 193 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: here is not necessarily you know, crime like beauty is 194 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder, right, or in the 195 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: eye of the judicial system, right. So what we find 196 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: here is that there are three generations of punishment. Collective 197 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: punishment is practiced unto three generations, which sounds almost biblical. Yeah. Uh, 198 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: So you're to take um to dovetail off your early example, Matt. 199 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: This means that maybe your grandfather UM committed a crime 200 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: or was against party ideology, and you came from good family. 201 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: Family is very very important in this society. This means 202 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: that Um, your parents and you are going to feel 203 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: the consequences of that. This can be something where you're 204 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: just in a slightly lower class for a while or 205 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: this could be something where you are born in a 206 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: labor camp with no idea, not even of the world 207 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: outside North Korea, but no idea of the world outside 208 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: the labor camp or understanding of why you are there 209 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: in the beginning. Uh, it is just a tortuous, horrible Um, 210 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: it's it's an atrocity. Yeah, and exactly. And from what 211 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: I've gathered, you will live your entire life there and 212 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: possibly even have to have children, and then they live 213 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: their entire lives there, and and that's it. Then then 214 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: you're done. Now it's important to say that to give 215 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: a picture of these labor camps, A lot of this 216 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: is a very hard manual labor. Of course, Um, children 217 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: to write children to. Punishments are harsh. Food is very scarce. 218 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: And when I say harsh punishments, I mean up to 219 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: and including arbitrary torture. Um. This this is a family show, 220 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: so we won't go too much into this, but there 221 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: are instances you know, of beating to death, of forced abortions, 222 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: exposure to the elements, um, being forced to eat feces, 223 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: and uh, the list goes on. So what what we're 224 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: saying here is that there is a segment of this 225 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: population that due to collective punishment, exists under under these 226 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: terrible circumstances. Uh. And it makes you wonder, which is 227 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: a question we'll get at later towards the end of this. 228 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: It makes you wonder how much of this is propaganda 229 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: from defectors, because again, it's hard to learn about a 230 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff, and a lot of it comes 231 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: has anecdotal evidence from people who perhaps escaped, right, and 232 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: we see satellite imagery, but it's not as if, you know, 233 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: Advice did a documentary on North Korea, but it's not 234 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: as if they made it to a labor camp that was, 235 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: although they did make it to that place in Russia. 236 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: So before we get sidelined too much here, one of 237 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: the questions would be, well, why is this government being supported? Right? Sure, 238 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: because historically it was supported. It's primary benefactor was the U. 239 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: S SR. But that no longer exists. That's a problem, 240 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: and relationships with Russia have have cooled a lot. So 241 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: who is the main benefactor of North Korea now? Well, 242 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: currently it's China, but it's not exactly an ideal partnership. 243 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: So like their Facebook status would be its complications, That's 244 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: exactly right. Another thing to note here is that the 245 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: DPRK does have some sort of nuclear weaponry. Uh. They've 246 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: got I think an estimated two warheads maybe, um, but 247 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: there's really no reliable, a livery system like intercontinental ballistic 248 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: missiles that are just ready to go. And especially if 249 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: you only got two warheads, I mean, it would be 250 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: a short lived big bang attack. But there, yeah, but 251 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: there it is still dangerous, right, and they're working on, um, 252 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: having this ballistic capability and actively working toward nuclear weaponry 253 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: as opposed to a country like Iran, which according to 254 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: numerous intelligence agencies recently isn't exactly but coming out of Africa, 255 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: where did it come out of South Africa? Yeah, it 256 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: came out of these Uh, lazy gentleman, Matt and I 257 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: are talking about some recent leaks before we went to 258 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: air this week from the South African intelligence agencies that 259 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: revealed so much stuff. Let's just talk about real quick. 260 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: Let's just launch your list of stuff. Well okay, um, 261 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: A lot of it that I read specifically had to 262 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: do with Iran. Um. And just the lines that we've 263 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: been getting from certain countries, including our own, just that 264 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: are complete, yes, right, especially the prime Minister of Israel, 265 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: Benjamin Netan Yahoo UH saying that, you know, it's something 266 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: we've talked about before. Iran is always in some weird 267 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: according to its opponents, Iran has always in some weird 268 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: alice in wonderland state. You know, uh bombs yesterday, bombs tomorrow, 269 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: but never ever bombs today, and they're always a year 270 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: away or ten, like five years away or whatever. And 271 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: it turns out that the that Massad, the Israeli equivalent 272 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: of the c I A I guess, said that Uh, 273 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: Iran's definitely is not doing it. Yeah, it just has down. 274 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: We're not worried and this, I mean, it's kind of 275 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: messed up, but I would definitely trust the Massad's word. 276 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: Uh if it's if it is in this content is 277 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: being leaked. Yeah. We also found some other stuff there. 278 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: Let's see UH Korean stuff specifically like South Korea targeting 279 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: the president of green Peace peace officials from monitoring and 280 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: m I six, which is UH the UK Intelligence agency 281 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: attempting to uh create to get a spy in North Korea. 282 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, that's that's a soft order, man, it's 283 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: a tall order. And that's because um, we can recap 284 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: some of our earlier stuff here. That's because North Korea 285 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: is very much a closed society. It's a homogeneous, largely 286 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: homogeneous society. Um, because North Korea has a class system, 287 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a little bit more detail. 288 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: But if we're talking about this, let's go ahead and 289 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: start at the very top of the social hierarchy of 290 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: the DPRK and that is the Kim dynasty. That's right. 291 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: You gotta start with the O G. Kim Il sung Uh, 292 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: the father of Kim Jong il, and then in turn 293 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: the grandfather of Kim Jong oon, the current leader. Yes, 294 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: Kim Il sung is the is a godlike figure. Uh. 295 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: Kim Il sung is the internal leader of North Korea, 296 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: which means that technically speaking, he is considered still the 297 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: leader of North Korea despite his death. There's your three 298 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: generational rule there. Ah. Yes, and it's interesting that you 299 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: say that. Well, we'll see how that shakes out later. Yes, 300 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: Kim Il sung is referred to as the Great Leader, 301 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: the country's eternal president. His birthday as a holiday, it's 302 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: called the Day of the Sun. Uh. He ruled North 303 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: Korea for forty six years from until he passed away 304 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four UM. During the time leading up 305 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: to his passing away, his son Kim Jong Il, who 306 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: most of us will probably remember better, he took leadership 307 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and it was during his rule that the country encountered 308 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: some of those very tense difficult times, including the famine 309 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: known as the Arduous March, and nuclear standoffs. But we 310 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: have a new leader now, and that is one of 311 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: his sons, right, Kim Jong He was selected by Kim 312 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: John Hill over his other two brothers. Yes, I mean, hey, 313 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: props man, right, yeah. He he is interesting because he 314 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: has a UM. He has a European schooling, so he 315 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: is someone who has been raised outside of the country 316 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,239 Speaker 1: and I believe he went to school in Switzerland. Now 317 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: he is not necessarily the um. He he is not 318 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: necessarily the air apparent in the way you would think 319 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: these things would normally go. He's not the eldest son. No, 320 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: there there were issues, let's say, with two of the 321 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: other candidates that would have been before him, right, yeah, 322 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: So there are two other candidates. There was Kim Jong 323 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: Nam and Kim Jong chul uh. And I'm mispronouncing. I apologize. 324 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: I don't speak Korean very well. But the the brothers 325 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: were the brothers who didn't make it. Um, we're passed 326 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: over because one of them was caught trying to go 327 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: to uh Tokyo Disneyland in two thousand one and there 328 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: was a huge embarrassment. One of the others was seen 329 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: as a feminate by their father. Uh So, here we 330 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: are with Kim Jong un as the leader of the 331 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: DPRK or at least the face of it. And and 332 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: that's that's the important thing, right, despite the appearance of 333 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: an absolute monarchy, right, the private version seems a little 334 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: bit different. There are a lot of high ranking senior 335 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: officials that um date back or did date back all 336 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: the way to the days of Kim Il song and 337 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: seniority being so important in this society, their words carry weight. 338 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,239 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And it's I feel like the system is 339 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: kind of similar to the high advisors that let's say 340 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: the president listens to on a daily basis to make 341 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: high level decisions, even if they're repeatedly wrong. Oh yeah, 342 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: but it's you know, you have you kind of have 343 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: to go with a person that probably knows best, right yeah. 344 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: Uh And another another weird thing here. Uh So, the 345 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: stated aim of North Korea is reunification it's something that 346 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: both Koreas want in principle, right, and uh, the problem 347 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: there is that the the problem there is that there's 348 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: just a battle of population that occurs because both both 349 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: want the peninsula reunified in some manner or way, because 350 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: there were families that were split apart by this division, 351 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: this thirty parallel division. Um. But you know, both countries 352 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: want to be in the driver's seat, right. And then 353 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: when you look at the population, you you mentioned that 354 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: the Republic of Korea has almost twice as many almost 355 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: twice as many people. Um. So it would seem as 356 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: though if you were just looking from that aspect alone, 357 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: they would kind of absorb North Korea, or at least 358 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: that's the way it seems. And I'm pretty certain North 359 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Korea wouldn't want that, right. Uh. We we are gonna 360 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: look at some of the questions about that too towards 361 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: towards the ends here. Now that you watched the interview, right, 362 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, I watched the interview. Two. It wasn't 363 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't my favorite thing. I felt like, you know, 364 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: what's what's the point where uh, satire just becomes kind 365 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: of racism. But I'm a big fan of Seth Rogan 366 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: and James Franco. I think they're funny guys. Um, the 367 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: guy who played Kim Jong and is a really funny dude. Uh. 368 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: But you know, you have to wonder how much of 369 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: that is again like propaganda. But there was a great 370 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: point in interview where they say that there is a 371 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: false impression that this nation strives to give visitors and 372 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: the outside world. Oh yeah, the I'm thinking of the 373 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: scene in particular where James Franco's character goes and finds 374 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: that little food store and it's just all fake food. Um, 375 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: it's all props, essentially set ups for him and other 376 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: outsiders to think that there's plentiful food in the area. Yeah, 377 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: there's a great reddit a m a from a North 378 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: from a photographer who was traveling to North Korea pretty 379 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: often until he started being refused entry for taking photos 380 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: you shouldn't take, and he said that there are a 381 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: few there's like two supermarkets in Kong Young or something, 382 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: but the only people who can really shop at those 383 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: are the elite. Um. We know that there is propaganda 384 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: at work in North Korea, and you know it's it's 385 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: its own industry as well, So it's difficult to understand 386 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: how much of what the government says is true, how 387 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: to parse the truth between the statements. But there's another point. 388 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: This makes us think of, well, yeah, it's not just 389 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: propaganda coming out of North Korea about how great it is. 390 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: There's also a ton of propaganda aimed at you about 391 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: how bad North Korea is and all these terrible things 392 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: and how everyone there is starving. Although there is some 393 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: truth to it it, a lot of this stuff are 394 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: just exaggerations to kind of shape your view of the 395 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: country as a whole. Right, there's a lot of an 396 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: echo chamber going on. Uh. And nowhere was this more 397 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: apparent than UH in the recent interview related news story 398 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: Froth Korea. Right, yeah, it was. It was absolutely North 399 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: Korea doing these cyber attacks against Sony. We're not saying 400 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't, but we are saying, uh, that's a heck 401 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: of a leap to make. And there were credible, very 402 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: credible people saying that it absolutely wasn't North Korea. So 403 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, you just I just have to open open 404 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: your third high Maybe I don't know, I can't. I 405 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: don't know how you figure out what's true or not 406 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: these days. So we do know that with that being said, 407 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: with that wheelbarrow salt poured onto the idea of all 408 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: these stories you hear from North Korea and about North Korea. 409 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: We do know that some of the crazier stories are 410 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: are true, because, as we said at the top, we 411 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: have our friend Kinji Fujimoto who was able to confirm 412 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: some and then we have some some good firsthand reports here. 413 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: So what's what's one crazy story? All right? Well, you 414 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: are going to have to elaborate on this one for me. 415 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: But I remember hearing a story about a rabbit breeding 416 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: program that didn't go very well, or they're very it's 417 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: a very large species of rabbit that I guess North 418 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: Korea wanted to have a small population of them in 419 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,239 Speaker 1: order to breed them. Yes, yeah, it's true. So in 420 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: I guess two thousand seven or so, twelve giant rabbits 421 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: were delivered to North Korea. Uh. The breeder who sent 422 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: them UH found he thought they were going to be 423 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: used to make a rabbit farm. Uh, but he suspected 424 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: that they were eaten by the top officials. Um Berlin's 425 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: North Korean embassy denied the allegations, but you can read 426 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: some more about this in spiegel Um, the online, the 427 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: German journalism. This is an article by David Crossland. And 428 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: these rabbits guys are so big, their biggest dogs they 429 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: make about eight kilos of of me Umsolutely, yeah, that's huge. 430 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: But it may have been I was thinking about this. 431 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: It may have been despite the food shortage that they 432 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: tried the rabbits, because you should try before you like 433 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: do this whole thing. You want to start a rabbit 434 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: industry if nobody wants them. Nobody wants them. But maybe 435 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: they ate them and they didn't taste good. That's that's 436 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: another I could see that. I could see that, um. 437 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: But there are other crazy stories as well. Another story 438 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: is that there is a difference in size between North 439 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: and South Korean nationals, and it's thought to be due 440 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: to to maulnutrition that North Koreans were subjected to. Yeah, 441 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: you hear this a lot from especially from a mayor Ricans. So. 442 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: Former presidential candidate John McCain talked about it in a 443 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight debate, Christopher Hitchens talked about it 444 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: in an article and Slate. Uh. But some actual research 445 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: instead of just rhetoric, came from guy named Professor Daniel 446 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: Schweckendik from a university and soul. He said that on average, 447 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: North Korean men are about one and a half to 448 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: three inches shorter than men in South Korea. And the 449 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: interesting thing is that due to the homogeneous nature of 450 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: the population, like genetically, right, we know that this doesn't 451 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: come from a large variation or diversity in the gene pool. 452 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: It comes from environmental factors like nutrition. But that brings 453 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: us to something else, all right, Matt, this is one 454 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: of the craziest stories. Uh. Starvation, yes, been. Starvation and 455 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: food insecurity in general is a huge issue in North Korea. Um, 456 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: it's a life threatening issue that I mean, this is 457 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: one of the big worries in your life if you're 458 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: a North Korean. And like, we can look at one 459 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: of these things like during the famine of nine nineties, 460 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: that's the thing you mentioned earlier, the arduous march somewhere, 461 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: and there is a huge, huge variant in number here, 462 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: but somewhere between two hundred and forty thousand and three 463 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: point five million North Koreans died of starvation or some 464 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: form of hunger related issue. Right, Yeah, so maybe not 465 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: just starvation directly, but something exacerbated by starvation. Uh. This yeah, 466 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: this number is uh, it's a huge number. It's a 467 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: huge variance, as we said. But first, in a country 468 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: that does keep adequate records or does allow people in 469 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: more easily the uh, you still have a variance. You 470 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: still have a variance because it's difficult to say the 471 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: exact cause of death, right. But then in countries Uh. 472 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: But in the case of North Korea, this is even 473 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: more difficult because there are very few official numbers kept 474 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: and that's been the case for fifty years. This leads 475 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: us to something darker though, Yep, cannibalism. So there is 476 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: confirmation of let's say, isolated cases of why and you know, 477 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: there are also a lot of rumors about cannibalism, right. 478 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: So some of these isolated cases would be stuff like 479 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: a grandfather digging up his children's graves after they passed 480 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: away and eating them, Yeah, because he had to the idea. 481 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: But there are also these rumors of large scale cannibalism 482 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: that took place during certain times in North Korea. Um. 483 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: But really, we we don't know. We can't prove it, right, 484 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: because these stay means come down often through defectors right 485 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: through the eye of defectors, and uh, I'd like to 486 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: take just a moment to trace the path the defector 487 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: goes to. So if you if you make it to 488 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: South Korea from North Korea, then you are going to 489 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: be accepted into South Korean society. They have subsidies set up, 490 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: they have some orientation programs, right, and that's very important 491 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of things that are going 492 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: to be so unfamiliar. But to get to South Korea 493 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: is the difficult part. It's sort of like how um 494 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: in the United States. If you are from Cuba and 495 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: you manage to make it to the mainlands, right, then 496 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: you are allowed to stay. But uh, you have to 497 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: make it through that ninety miles of water first and 498 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: if you get caught before then you're fair game and 499 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: people will turn you back. So if you leave North Korea, 500 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: you um. And typically what we see are often with 501 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: the assistance of Christian groups or bribing guards, people go 502 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: over to China, they go over to the border and 503 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 1: cross the river. The the entrance straight into South Korea 504 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: via the DMZ is just not going to happen. It's 505 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: it's um. It's far too armed to the teeth on 506 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: both sides. But if you go to China and China 507 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: finds you, you will be deported back to North Korea 508 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: where you will almost certainly be sent to a labor 509 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: camp on And if you leave and it's proven that 510 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: you have left, then it could also potentially punish three 511 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: generations of your family. So of the people who travel, 512 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: many travel you know, directly to China and UH. Of 513 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: the women who travel there are traffic UH or in 514 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: foce marriages, and the people who do make it, China 515 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: considers these people economic migrants, not refugees. The legal distinction 516 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: sounds um, you know, it sounds like semantics to us. 517 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: But it's a lot of people's lives hinge on this, 518 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: and the mission is to make it to an embassy 519 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: where they're safe. You can go onto YouTube right now, 520 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: UH and just search for North Korean refugees, China and 521 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: embassy and you will see heartbreaking footage of groups of 522 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: people making it. Chinese guards outside, not getting all of them, 523 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 1: but stopping some. And that's where it ends. The embassy 524 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: cannot do anything for you if you are right outside 525 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: the door. So when these when these people UM, when 526 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: these the factors passed through, if they make it via 527 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, like Thailand, China, Mongolia, and in China again, 528 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: a lot of the assistants of Christian groups if they 529 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: make it there, they often talk about their experiences in uh, 530 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: North Korea. And we have to have some deal of 531 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: skepticism because it's true that a lot of people are 532 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: saying the same thing. But uh, what is the evidence 533 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: other than that hearsay? Is it possible that um, you know, 534 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: factions of the South Korean government or even the US 535 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: government are encouraging this kind of like encouraging a rhetoric 536 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: of some sort, or is this just the truth of 537 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: these people participating in starvation cannibalism. Ah, that is a 538 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: heavy one, Ben, Yeah, sorry, that was a monologue. It's 539 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: all good, Okay. I have a question that maybe our 540 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: listeners would like to ask you. How how did you 541 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: learn so much about this subject? Oh? I don't I 542 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: don't know. I appreciate the flattery, but I don't know 543 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: very much about North kreo ale compared to a lot 544 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: of people. This is just something that US has fascinated 545 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: me for a long time. You know, my background is 546 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: in international affairs and always seemed enigmatic and full of 547 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 1: questions to me. Imply questions, why aren't world powers doing 548 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: more or to to help if this, if this is 549 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: such an important thing, and um, how did this unique 550 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 1: government begin? You know? Oh? Yeah, sure, well it seems 551 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: like you're absolutely right. It seems like one of those 552 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: things that once you learn about it, that why if 553 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,879 Speaker 1: anybody knows about it, why isn't there more being done 554 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: to change the situation? Now? What what about the what 555 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: about the next thing here? This is a weird sort 556 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 1: what about the crime? Oh little crime, little crime action. Uh. 557 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if any of you are watching better 558 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 1: call Saul, but you probably should be if you are not. Uh. 559 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: North Korea turns out is pretty good at making meth, 560 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: at least certain factions, certain groups are really good at it. Um. Yeah, yeah, 561 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: they officially deny it. However, during the nineties of government 562 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: had this unit called Office thirty nine, and it was 563 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: tasks to raise hard currency for Kim Jong Ill and 564 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: they produced not just meth but also opium, that thing 565 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: that we've talked about pretty extensively on this show. H Again, 566 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: these are two things that seem to be able to 567 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 1: if you were able to produce them, generate a large 568 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: flow of cash and What's what's also interesting here is 569 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: despite these official denials, in two thousand ten, I believe uh, 570 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: South Korea's Donga Ilbow claimed that Chinese police had seized 571 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: sixty million dollars worth of drugs made by the DPRK. 572 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: She's so maybe this idea of not making meth is 573 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: a myth which brings us to myths about North Korea. Uh, 574 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: you've got you've got a big one for us, right, Matt. Well, 575 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: the first thing that you might not know is that 576 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: the citizen re as a whole, or at least large 577 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: chunks of the citizen re in the DPRK are not 578 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: as uninformed as some people would want you to think. Uh, 579 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: there are there's a whole black market of phones and 580 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: other telecommunic telecommunication devices, internet connections, um, all kinds of 581 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: smuggled media gets in South Korean soap operas are pretty popular. Well, 582 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: that's good. Well, the the interesting thing here is, you know, 583 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: people are so often taught, or were historically taught in 584 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: North Korea that uh, they were living in the best 585 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: possible situation in the world, and that people in South 586 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: Korea didn't have food or shoes or places to sleep. 587 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: And now this is this has become a parent that's 588 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: not true. Another myth, um, Well, I think it is 589 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: a myth, and I know some people might not agree here. 590 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: Another myth is that North Korea itself is a communist country, 591 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: that the DPRK is a communist country. Well, yeah, I 592 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,439 Speaker 1: think I thought it was ben Well so did I'm 593 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: at for for a long time. This brings us to 594 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: a book, quite a good book, a controversial book called 595 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: The Cleanest Race or How North Korean See Themselves and 596 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: Why It Matters. It's by an author named Brian Reynold Myers, 597 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: and in this book, Myers contends that far from being 598 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: a communist state the way that the West would understand it, 599 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: or the way that a communist would understand it, uh, 600 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: the North Korean society is much more now nationalistic and 601 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,959 Speaker 1: based on this idea of racial purity, the concept being 602 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,879 Speaker 1: that the people of this country are so pure and 603 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,879 Speaker 1: virtuous that they must be protected from the barbaric outside 604 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,439 Speaker 1: world by this this carrying omnipotent benefactor. Is it bad 605 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: that I'm seeing parallels there between being protected by protected 606 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: from terrorism and American exceptionalism. I don't know. That's a 607 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: very interesting parallel. To draw maybe listeners, let us know 608 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: what you think with that parallel there, because I'm sorry, 609 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: this is the most hey, this is the most interesting 610 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: parallel in this show. Now it beats the parallel to us. 611 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: But so we talked a little bit about, um, you 612 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: know this, okay, If this communism stuff is a myth, right, 613 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: if in practice there aren't wild inequalities in North Korean society, 614 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: then why what what's system in place does this? It's 615 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: the song bone system and I may be pronouncing that incorrectly, 616 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: but it's the caste system that exists in North Korea, yep. 617 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: And they're they're like three grades, right, yeah, three tiers. 618 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: You've got the loyal, which is also called core or 619 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: I think it's called core, but loyal, the loyal Core. 620 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: Then you've also got wavering, which are people that are 621 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: kind of your ifs, your maybe's, you're these people are 622 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: on a list, but they're not necessarily danger yet. Then 623 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: you've got your hostiles. Ah, yes, this is this system 624 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: is based upon the position of one's family pre liberation 625 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: of the peninsula. So the hostile and wavering class makes 626 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: up about seventy two per cent of the population, and 627 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: there are gradients of this, I think more than thirty 628 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: kind of gradients. One thing we should point out here 629 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: is that this most definitely affects your chances at everything 630 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: the town in which you are assigned to live, right, 631 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,319 Speaker 1: the job you are allowed to have, how far you 632 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,879 Speaker 1: are allowed to advance at school, Because if you are 633 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: um in the wrong class, no matter how well, if 634 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: you're in the hostile class, you probably don't get to 635 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: go to school. You're in a labor camp somewhere. But 636 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: if you were in a wavering class, no matter how 637 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: you study, you will not get the academic accolades that 638 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: the uh that the top tier classes get. Another myth 639 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: about North Korea that it is a failed state. It 640 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: is not. Actually things are better, at least a lot 641 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: better than they were in the nineties for sure. That's 642 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: when you had the starvation. Um just it wasn't looking 643 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: good around that time. So things are improving, and there 644 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: are a lot of things that are improving, right, Uh, yeah, 645 00:43:54,200 --> 00:44:00,400 Speaker 1: there are. In terms of access to food, things are proving. 646 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: There was a huge reevaluation of the Okay, this is 647 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: this kind of complex, but there was this huge reevaluation 648 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: reevaluation of the currency when the black market became too 649 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: successful and people relying less on the Kim dynasty. Uh 650 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: So people lost their savings totally and have been recovering 651 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: from that. But the the black or gray market has 652 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: to be permitted to a certain amount to a certain amount. 653 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: So that might be one reason why people say it's 654 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: a failed state. But a failed state is something like 655 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: Somalia when when the president that the U n recognizes 656 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: barely controls part of the capital, you know what I mean. 657 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: So the government in North Korea definitely still is in 658 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: control of the country, and that might be That might 659 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: be a good thing. As we'll see, it's also not 660 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,879 Speaker 1: as isolated as you might believe. We've got a great 661 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,479 Speaker 1: quote here of from the Atlantic that will just read 662 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,919 Speaker 1: a little part of the United States may have very 663 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: little to do with the North North Korea, but that 664 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: does not apply to the rest of the world. Did 665 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: you know that North Korea sends hundreds of students overseas 666 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: for educational and business training. Thousands of North Korean's work 667 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,760 Speaker 1: in China and Mongolia, where they produce goods for popular 668 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: British clothing brands, in Kuwait where they work on construction projects, 669 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: and in Russia, where they labor in logging camps. He 670 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: also says that there's a North Korean construction company that's 671 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 1: working completing a museum near Cambodia's famed Ankoor temples, which 672 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: is a whole another awesome place. Yeah, there's also a 673 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:47,479 Speaker 1: I T sector that is becoming an outsourcing destination. Uh, 674 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: they've got a pretty advanced animation industry. So this this 675 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: is all to say that this is not really a 676 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: This is not someplace that is completely cut off from 677 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: the world, which is something that people are often taught 678 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: in the United States. And this, all these myths is 679 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,359 Speaker 1: just the tip of the iceberg. So Matt, let's get 680 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: to the good stuff. Are there any conspiracies about North Korea? Oh? Yes, Ben, 681 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: there are a lot of conspiracies that deal with the 682 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: dprk uh. One of the big ones is that inside 683 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 1: the country in North Korea, Americans are blamed for everything. 684 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,280 Speaker 1: Oh so, like a power failure, Oh yeah, power failure, 685 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: you spilled your t Americans, It was the Americans. Obama. 686 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: I think it would be really funny if there were 687 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: just whole families in North Korea that just scream Obama 688 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: the way certain people in South too when anything happens. Well, 689 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: certain people across the world, Okay, sure saying that out 690 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,240 Speaker 1: of personal experience. Okay, I'm but I'm sure they're German 691 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 1: officials who say Obama. I know there's at least one 692 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,520 Speaker 1: guy in Russia who's probably saying that a lot. Sure, yeah, 693 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: I think we know who. But the but where does 694 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: this where does this idea come from? This idea that, uh, 695 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: the US forces are continually oppressing uh, North Korea. Well, 696 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,280 Speaker 1: we do know that a lot of it is based 697 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: on the factual events of the Korean War. Um, when 698 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: the Americans were doing a lot of uh, I mean, 699 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: it was total warfare, so a lot of civilian soldiers 700 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 1: died and the country was raised, the buildings were knocked down, 701 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,239 Speaker 1: and not only that, the sanctions that are placed on 702 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: North Korea. Yeah, but those sanctions primarily just affect the elite. 703 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: It's not as if, um, people in rural farming or 704 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,840 Speaker 1: mining towns are saying, oh man, we can't get cigars anymore. 705 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: And the elite are people too, and they knew and 706 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,439 Speaker 1: there you know cigars. You're right, I am being I'm 707 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: I'm being rude to the elite. Uh. So there's this 708 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: other there's this other theory here, um that if you 709 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: believe in new World order theories, you may also believe 710 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: in this that like Libya and Iran, North Korea is 711 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,720 Speaker 1: on the global UM let's call it the stuff list, 712 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: because it refuses to play games with the it refuses 713 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,239 Speaker 1: to play ball rather with the global financial regime. I 714 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: m F. Will Bank Goldman Sachs. I don't know, man, 715 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: This this one feels very real to me, that so 716 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: called non aligned countries. There's another. There's another one that 717 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 1: comes from a guy you might remember from earlier episodes 718 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: we had, Yeah, Benjamin Fulford. We we mentioned him, I 719 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 1: think when we were what was it, we were doing 720 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:49,160 Speaker 1: the Dragon Family episode. We looked at his research a lot. Uh. 721 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: He believes that DPRK and Japan are working closely together, 722 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,239 Speaker 1: and he's basing this on Kim John UN's Japanese mother. 723 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,360 Speaker 1: That's you know, that's kind of a big deal. And 724 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: also the large population in North Korean descendants who reside 725 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 1: in Japan. Yeah, Benjamin Fulford, you can you can check 726 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,799 Speaker 1: out his some of his work online if you like. 727 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: I would say that, uh, I would say that while 728 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,279 Speaker 1: the stories are interesting, they are allegations yes, they are 729 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: not proven facts, which is something you check out. But 730 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: the Dragon Family episode that we did is just fascinating. Um. 731 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: That's the one about the huge amounts of it wasn't money, 732 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: it was bonds, yeah, certificates yeah, and uh and there's 733 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: some interesting that they're interesting is a word that I'm 734 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 1: overusing this podcast. So I would say that there's some 735 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 1: um tantalizing stuff to go along with that. Around the 736 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:59,800 Speaker 1: same time of two Japanese nationals caught uh smuggling a 737 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: large amount of bills and a train supposed hidden treasure 738 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: or recover treasure in the Philippines. Uh. Dating back to 739 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: World Wars. The Dragon Family is this sort of um 740 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: asiatic ruling force similar to the Western concept of the illuminati. 741 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: And this is about his thing is about these two 742 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,840 Speaker 1: groups in conflict. Um. But do check it out if 743 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: you get a chance. Another big conspiracy. North Korea as 744 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 1: a world ending threat, Uh, not as much as a 745 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,879 Speaker 1: way in the way that you think. Now. North Korea 746 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 1: is most dangerous to South Korea because it is so 747 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,320 Speaker 1: close to the capital city Soul. Also, as a million 748 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,000 Speaker 1: strong army, it would be able to do some devastating, 749 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,959 Speaker 1: horrible damage to South Korea. But it would by no 750 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: means when the war. It doesn't have the firepower to UM. 751 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 1: It is not a world threat other than the idea 752 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 1: that destabilization UM or an attack on with Greek it's 753 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: set off a domino effect of some sort. And we 754 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,400 Speaker 1: said earlier that there are an estimated to nuclear warheads 755 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: inside the country in North Korea, So I guess they 756 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: are considered a nuclear power because they have these two. 757 00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: It's the threat is much smaller than a lot of places, 758 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 1: though you can't underestimate a nuke no matter what the size. 759 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 1: It also doesn't have a lot of missiles. You you 760 00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 1: were telling me about the newest missile. I don't know 761 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,920 Speaker 1: how to say that. Uha too, yeah you n h ah. 762 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: This technically is not a missile. It's a space launch vehicle. 763 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 1: I hope you guys can my air quotes around that. Uh. 764 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: And it did put a satellite in orbit. Uh. Currently, 765 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: the US sources estimate that North Korea has deployed around 766 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 1: six hundred SCUDG missile variants two hundred rodong missiles of 767 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: fewer than fifty musudan or Taypo dong um, but South 768 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,400 Speaker 1: Korean sources estimated and viewers, so this varies. So here's 769 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: the big question that we have today, what is the 770 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: future of North Korea? Can we can we see anything 771 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,279 Speaker 1: like what is the outcome here? Well, to answer that, 772 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: we'd also be answering this another question which we'll we'll 773 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:24,439 Speaker 1: answer in full in an upcoming episode two. Uh. The 774 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 1: future of North Korea is difficult to determine because it 775 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:34,840 Speaker 1: is caught between global powers the United States, China, Japan, Russia. 776 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,400 Speaker 1: To a lesser degree, a lot of misinformation and disinformation 777 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 1: is spread about the country, and its inner politics are 778 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:48,080 Speaker 1: incredibly secretive. But those human rights abuses are real to 779 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,319 Speaker 1: some degree. Oh absolutely. And if you know, if we're 780 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: still going to ho about freedom and human rights in America, 781 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,440 Speaker 1: then why the heck haven't we done anything about this? 782 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,759 Speaker 1: We are the largest superpower and military might in the world. Furthermore, 783 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: if China has such influence over DPRK, then why hasn't 784 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,719 Speaker 1: it done more to improve the the economic situation, if 785 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 1: not the human rights situation. Well, there's a simple answer. 786 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,399 Speaker 1: There's not a compelling reason to change the status quo 787 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:27,399 Speaker 1: right now in that region. Absolutely, imagine, if imagine, if 788 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:32,200 Speaker 1: you can, the situation when the wall fell in between 789 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,040 Speaker 1: East Germany and West Germany. This would be that in 790 00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,800 Speaker 1: a much larger circumstance, a massive flood of refugees would 791 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,920 Speaker 1: UH would move into South Korea and China immediately in 792 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,240 Speaker 1: excess of twenty million people. UH. And and who knows 793 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,919 Speaker 1: which way the power shifts if that wall comes down? 794 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,320 Speaker 1: Is it the Republic of Korea or the Democratic Republic 795 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,360 Speaker 1: of Korea who gains control? Right? Yeah, so does the 796 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,040 Speaker 1: does the current collapse or does it become something that 797 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 1: gives the United States more influence or is it something 798 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,320 Speaker 1: that gives China an edge? And you have to think 799 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: that some kind of sudden military intervention would would pretty 800 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 1: much it would certainly result in the deaths of millions 801 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,719 Speaker 1: on the r OK side, just because the DPRK is 802 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: so ready to attack. They've been planning for some kind 803 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:30,360 Speaker 1: of invasion or aggression for years, decades, and listeners, the 804 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:35,080 Speaker 1: cynics among us would say that uh in invasion or 805 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 1: liberation has not occurred yet because the DPRK doesn't have 806 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: a valuable resource like oil or something. That's why it's 807 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:48,080 Speaker 1: not officially a protectorate of China yet. But it does 808 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:52,720 Speaker 1: have mineral resources Metal resources, will see how that goes. 809 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,360 Speaker 1: We also know that a CIA style people's revolution or 810 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:02,000 Speaker 1: regime change at China's doors step would be an act 811 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,880 Speaker 1: of clear war, and that's probably one of the reasons 812 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,000 Speaker 1: it hasn't happened yet. Uh, they're spies from China active 813 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,920 Speaker 1: in North Korea and their North Korean spies in China 814 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 1: and South Korea. But for now, there's not a compelling 815 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:21,960 Speaker 1: reason for the country's involved to change the status quo immediately, 816 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,400 Speaker 1: maybe slowly over time, but not immediately. So what do 817 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: you guys think about all this stuff? What's your opinion? 818 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,280 Speaker 1: We I don't know. This is one of those subjects 819 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,279 Speaker 1: that racks my brain because it's very tough to digest 820 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,680 Speaker 1: all of these things, like the human rights abuses that 821 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: we talked about, and also the rock and hard place 822 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 1: between changing something and then not making things worse from 823 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 1: a global perspective. We'd love to hear what you think, 824 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 1: so right to us. Go to Twitter, We're at conspiracy 825 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,719 Speaker 1: stuff there. Find us on Facebook, We're conspiracy stuff there. 826 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,200 Speaker 1: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you 827 00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,359 Speaker 1: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can 828 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,000 Speaker 1: get into contact with us in a number of different ways. 829 00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: One of the best is to give us a call. 830 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: Our number is one eight three three std w y 831 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,759 Speaker 1: t K. If you don't want to do that, you 832 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,279 Speaker 1: can send us a good old fashioned email. We are 833 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,919 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't 834 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,480 Speaker 1: want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. 835 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 836 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 837 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:28,880 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.