WEBVTT - White House Eyeing $1T Stimulus Package 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.199 by searching Bloomberg Global News. Let's get right into the 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.879 Business Week agenda. Now, as Charlie mentioned, we have a 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.120 lot to talk about. Jina Martin Adams is with this, 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.120 chief equity strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us on the 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.320 phone from New Jersey. Also in New Jersey is where 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.640 we find Dave Wilson, stocks editor for Bloomberg. He is 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.400 there in the Garden State. So Dave give us the 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.280 brief contours of this market. We heard some of the 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.560 top line numbers from Charlie, what do we need to 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:03.280 know about this? Trade? Technology stocks holding up relatively well 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.440 on the broader market not so much. I mean, Charlie 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.880 didn't talk about airlines, so I will. I mean, you 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.600 got United to the leading of decline in the group, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.880 you know, warning employees that what's happening with the coronavirus 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.640 in the South and West is going to be an 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.560 issue in terms of people getting on planes. Uh. The 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:27.440 airline said it seen dropping bookings, especially in Newark, New Jersey, 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.520 just up the road from yours, truly, So you know, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.920 you've got United shares at the moment the worst performers 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.319 in the SMP five hundred down more than six percent. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.080 And you see the other carriers going along for the ride, 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:43.520 American Delta and Southwest all lower here, So you know 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.360 that's a concern, you know. On the other hand, I 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.400 mean you see as some stories related to the coronavirus 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.960 in terms of UH, potential vaccines that are really getting attention. UH. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.640 Front and center in that score is Novavax starts up 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.560 thirty five percent after where the company got a billion 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.960 six from the US government to develop it's a prob 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.720 nineteen vaccine, so that that definitely gets your attention. Yeah, 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:12.919 that definitely gets a stock moving. Let's bring in Gina 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.280 because Gina I feel like things that might get the 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.240 markets moving, maybe in a good way, maybe in a 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.760 bad way, depends on how the earning season comes out. 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.440 We've got to get ready for earnings again. Yeah, I 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.560 totally agree that earnings is a potential catalyst for stocks. 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.080 In addition to potential policy changes coming at the end 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.000 of July in the form of maybe another fiscal package 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.359 or at least an extension of unemployment benefits. UM, the 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.800 earning season is absolutely top of mind for US as 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.400 the next potential catalyst for stocks. You know, I will 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.799 say this, it's hard to get much lower in terms 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.600 of expectations. Analysts are forecasting a drop in earnings on 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.880 a year ago basis, which is just an extraordinary decline 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.320 in history. I don't think you'd find a single quarter 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.920 in which we've seen such an extended, extensive decline. UM. Nonetheless, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.680 US uh that that low bar should make for a 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.400 relatively easy beat. The question is whether or not beating 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.280 such a low bar will be enough for stock prices, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.200 and I happen to think that it may not be enough. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.680 What you actually probably need to see is also a 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.800 little bit of visibility emerge from company management and with 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.320 respect to the outlook. Uh, you know, one of the 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.960 most devastating impacts of the first quarter with companies just 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.720 absolutely splashed all guidance and just that we're not even 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:26.960 going to tell you anything because we don't know anything. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.040 So to the extent that some of these cyclically oriented companies, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.359 some of the high volatility type of stocks, can come 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.360 out with some commentary to suggest that hey, maybe we 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.640 will survive. We have enough liquidity to get through the 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.240 next couple of quarters, and we'll move into one and 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.720 things will start to look better. That could be really 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.960 positive for the equity market. Well, and Gina to to 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.760 that exact point, I mean, you start to wonder whether 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.240 some CEOs are going to want to start to differentiate 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.880 themselves right to say, look, we've made the right moves, 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.720 or we have the right liquidity, We've tapped the right sources. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.119 Because I think this is just my opinion that investors 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.360 are gonna maybe not put up much longer with this 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:09.880 idea of like, yeah, we just don't know what's going 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:11.640 to happen. It's like, well, yeah, well we don't know 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.240 what's going to happen, but it's kind of your job 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.080 to tell us what you think is going to happen, right, Yeah, exactly, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.840 And I think that the smart managements will actually take 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.920 the opportunity to kitchen sink as much as they can 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.760 in the second quarter. So you know, you've got a 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.479 lot of potential volatility with Yeah, maybe things weren't as 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.080 bad as we thought, but hey, we can take the 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.440 opportunity to take this charge and kind of move past 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.080 the second quarter. Everybody's expecting so much weakness anyway, things 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.000 will inevitably get better in the second half. Well, now 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.360 maybe we can disclose just how much better they think, 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.200 you know, we think they'll get. And even if companies 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.800 are saying, you know, we're not anticipating a huge improvement 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.640 in economic growth, well okay, but you are anticipating at 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.760 least some improvement right relative to second quarter. We know 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.240 that second quarter was when all the shutdowns happen, were 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.960 no longer completely shut down. What does your reality look 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.680 like in a not completely shut down a outomy and 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.960 can we extrapolate that out into the future. So I 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.200 do think the expectations bar is very different, right, And 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:11.200 I think in that expectation is really about more than anything, right, 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.360 And I think it's fair to ask CEOs because they've 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.600 got to make decisions whether they need money, whether they 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.520 need to let go workers. So they've got to be 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.280 having some kind of forecasting going on because they've got 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.359 to make decisions. So well, absolutely, and even for the 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.719 companies that are really strong, what are you doing with 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.359 all that cash? Because one of the interesting things that 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.880 happened in the first quarter is cash stores built tremendously. 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.080 We talk a lot about cash flow declines, but cash 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.159 stores also built up. What are you going to do 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.479 with that going forward is a huge question that nobody's 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.159 talking about. All right, Gina Martin Adams, thank you so much, 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.240 Chief Equity Status of course for Bloomberg Intelligence. This is 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.200 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.280 Bloomberg Radio. Well, this is one of those rub your 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.080 hands together interviews, Carroll, because I'm so excited to catch 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.279 up again with Craig Gordon Washington Burr, chief executive editor 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:04.080 for Bloomberg, join us on the phone from the nation's 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:08.520 capital and its environs. So, Craig, I am tempted to 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.599 just talk about YouTube radio and the return to serious 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.559 XM that both you and I are so happy about. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.159 But we have other business to discuss, and I guess 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.440 I would start by asking you, as you look across 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.360 all that your reporters are working on, all the inputs 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.920 you're getting, what's the most important story in Washington right now? 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.000 I think the most important story right now actually is 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.560 Donald Trump's um handling of the current situation regarding things 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.080 like the Confederate flag and some of these racial issues. Obviously, uh, 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.760 there's the simulus, there's the virus. There's a lot going on. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.080 But we are seeing a real window into Trump's psyche 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.000 um as he starts to look at the same phone 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.560 numbers we're looking at that showed him kind of uh, 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.599 you know, blinking red across the board. Most of the 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.040 swing states right now suggested to be going to biden 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.440 the country right track wrong track number, which is one 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.279 of the main numbers that people look at, you know, 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.720 in terms of President's prospects and re election, are all 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.960 going the arrows are all in the wrong direction for Trump, 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:04.920 and instead of you know, finding a message to try 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.520 to either unite the country during COVID or Uh, you know, 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.360 some of the some of the racial here and healing 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.240 that might be availed to him, he's actually going in 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.960 the complete opposite direction. He talked, he talked again this 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.760 morning a little bit about the Confederate flag. That was 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.480 a tweet from yesterday. Actually he said, Kelly and Conway 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.240 out to defend his comments on that. Um, obviously we 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.720 all saw the speeches from Friday and Saturday night where 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.840 he's standing him out rushmore a real chance again to 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.920 kind of try to have some unifying words, you know, 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.520 standing under the visages of our our greatest presidents, and 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.600 really went went pretty pretty negative. So I think a 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.160 lot of times with Trump, what you see is what 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.360 you get. Um, he's not a man who has a 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.160 pretty good has a very good poker face. And I 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.600 think he's worried about losing. And I think the more 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.760 he's worried about losing, he's gonna start lashing out in 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.600 these you know, and he's frankly pretty ugly ways. Uh, 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.120 as he tries to keep Joe Biden down, does he 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.960 not want to be president? Oh? You know, I won't 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.000 put him on cosh quite that far. That's always done. 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:03.440 The question right now a surprised than Donald Trump on election. UM, 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.840 but he definitely I feel like, you know, he's he's 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.240 a politician who kind of one with sort of one 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.960 good trick, and that trick was Muslim ban it was 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.840 the wall, it was us versus them. It was sort of, 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.920 you know, speaking to the so called downtrodden Americans and 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.600 kind of stoking some of those darker impulses in the 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:22.760 American psyche. I think that's how he got to be 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.480 the president the first time he's the president. Now, a 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:27.600 president has a lot of tools at their disposal. There 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.640 could be virus things, or against some of the racial hearing, 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.440 even just economic economic message I'm gonna bring the economy back, 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.199 which he sort of says a lot but doesn't do much. UM. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.640 And instead he's kind of going back to that one 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.760 trick over and over. And I would expectfully argue, even 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.080 perhaps in an even slightly darker way. UM. The problem 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:47.880 for Trump is a lot of the country's not really 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.800 with him. I mean, you know, he won by this 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.160 limits of majorities. Wasn't even a majority plurality last time. UM. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.319 And even some of those people are scared about the virus. 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.439 They don't like the way things are going with the economy. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.079 We know the seniors who were pretty strong for him 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.240 in are kind of starting to drift away. And so, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.439 I mean, you know, we all know Donald Trump's advisors 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.480 have a pretty poor record of getting them to change 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.760 his ways. But boy, this does not feel like he's 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.600 playing a winning hand right now. And yet he keeps 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.280 doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. Well, Craig, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.120 you know, we just have a headline crossing the Bloomberg 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.800 about California seeing six thousand nine virus cases versus about 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.160 sixty for the fourteen day average. You know, we constantly 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.240 are watching these virus headlines and a lot of states 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.600 that are very important to the president. You know, we're 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:32.720 seeing cases spike in, the problem getting bigger and bigger. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.520 How problematic is his handling of the virus ultimately to 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:38.920 him come November? Yeah, and this to me is a 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.400 but it was sort of the mystery of it. We 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.240 had a trific story up by Gray recording of Mike 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.400 Dorning just yesterday on the Bloomberg terminal talking about how 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:47.840 in the in the very states where the cases are up, 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.280 Trump's numbers are down. It's almost like a one to 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.400 one correlation, where the cases are up, the numbers are down. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.240 This is in blue states like California, what you mentioned, 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.480 New York, New Jersey, which obviously had his share of problems. 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.000 This is Florida, This is Aaron's owner. This is places 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.840 he won and and really needs to win again, um 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.000 if he has any chance of all of getting back 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.319 into the White House. So again, it does seem to 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.040 sort of even run counter to that. These are his voters, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.640 these are his states, this is Trump country, and they 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.960 are suffering right now with the virus, and yet they 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.800 look to the White House, they look to the president 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.920 and they're really I mean, Trump almost barely mentions the 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.120 virus anymore. Obviously we went from the extreme of those 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.960 nightly two and three hour long briefings too. Now he 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.200 barely will say the word, you know, v I R U, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.559 s UM, and I'm sorry. I think some of the 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.720 voters in those places, again, maybe they don't want to 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.199 wear a mask, and maybe they wish they could go 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.120 back to the barn. Whatever people are feeling right now, 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.160 we're all little anty. I'm in week seventeen or work 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.000 from home. You know, I feel their pain, but I 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:42.760 do think they're looking to the White House and looking 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.560 to the leader of the country for some answers to 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.800 help their states and their friends and neighbors, and they're 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.600 seeing nothing. And that's a problem for Trump well and Craig. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.760 It's also interesting to see a shift in tone, it 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.240 feels like, over the last week from whether it's Mitch 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:00.400 McConnell or even Vice President Pence saying where a mask? 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.120 I mean, it sounds so ridiculous to point that out. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.520 And at the same time it's notable that, yeah, we 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.360 we have spreading the work right now on pensis comments 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.040 because I picked up a little bit on that, just 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.680 as you did over the weekend, that even Mike Pence 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.800 is the loyalist. Loyalist obviously carried a lot of water 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.680 for this president. Is is kind of, ever so slightly 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.560 edging away from him on the question of a mask, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.199 and it's okay to wear a mask. He and Mitch 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.079 McConnell no one's idea of flaming liberal is out there 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.680 saying the same thing. So right, It's like, that's what 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.480 strikes me, and I think that we made me answer 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.000 your question the way I did at the top the 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.679 top here what's the most important thing. It's both the 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.800 Trump is doubling Donna what feels to me, and I 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:38.880 think the poll suggests kind of a losing message, but 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.280 he's starting to lose his loyalist when Mike Pence is 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.160 starting to talk a little differently in the Donald Trump boy, 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.400 that's that's a pretty notable day, Mitch McConnell, some of 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.080 these other folks, and that's where the trouble really is 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.520 right now for President Trump. So, Craig, we've got a 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.320 new tell all book from a Trump insider. What do 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.000 we know about this book? So right? This is this 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.320 just got about today or is being released today. Eric Larson, 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.199 one of our legal team reporters, managed to get his 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.440 hands on it, so good for him. This is Mary 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.640 Trump is the President Trump's niece, so she got to 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.760 see a lot of up close and personal. Uh. The 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.560 interaction mostly between the book seems to center fork a 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.600 lot on the interaction between Trump and his father, obviously 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.319 a queen's um real estate developer, just like the President 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.440 turned into um. And really it's it's hard to read um. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.040 Obviously we all feel everybody always feel like you know 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.080 the president a little bit, you know, just because you 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.360 see the person so often. But boy, you're getting a 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.640 very ugly, um look inside the family dynamic here where 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.600 Fred Trump his father just drove Donald very hard. Um. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.120 You know, she accuses them essentially withholding his love and 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.800 support and turning turning Donald Trump. One of the ones 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.600 that left out of me was she's a she herself 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:48.800 as a clinical syche top collegist, so she's not just 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.400 you know, sort of an armchair person here assarch that 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.440 her uncle has all nine clinical criteria for being a narcissist. 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.560 So um, for anyone who might have thought that about 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.480 the president, Uh, there's a clinical psychologist who got to 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.160 live with them, you know, off and on for many 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.280 many years making that same diagnosis. It's pretty it's pretty 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.760 chilling stuff. And even the idea and this sits a 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.920 little uh in the in the zeitgeist right now, this 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:12.839 notion that he paid someone to take the s a 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.200 t for I mean, all these things just you know, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.559 it's a little bit of a drip, drip drip that 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.280 turns into something more than that. It feels like, yeah, 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.360 that's how I tend to view these books, Like, I'm 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.080 not sure how many people sort of sit and read 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.480 the whole canon of Donald Trump from you know, the 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.480 Woodward's first book all the way up to Bolton and 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.480 now and now this book. But I do think they 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.400 tend to, like you say, little details of them sort 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.400 of break through the zeitgeist. In this case, maybe as 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:39.880 he paid someone to take the s A T and 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.160 to get into Warden, which he's bragged about almost every 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.320 day of his life since. Then with the Bolton book, 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.959 I think it was you know that he had asked uh, 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.679 the Chinese president g to buy a bunch of agricultural 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.160 products to help and get reelected. You know, again, a 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.840 very sort of picture of a president literally bartering his 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.880 own re election with the leader of a of a 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.840 country that is certainly no friend of the United States, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.080 certainly arrival UM. So So I don't know that they 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:03.600 you know, like again, you have to read the whole 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.800 library of them to form an opinion about Trump, but 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.480 the little pieces that come out, it's another brick on 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:10.880 the pile for people who again are already looking at 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.360 the president with questions about UM. I think that I 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.000 think the virus specifically damaging to Donald Trump in this way, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.160 and that UM presidents expected of Americans expect the presidence 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.400 to be sort of empathetic. You know, Clinton got became 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.000 a little bit of a punchline. You know, I feel 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.360 you're paying, but I do think that's what Americans look 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:29.800 to the presidents to do at a time of a 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.080 national crisis or a disaster, uh in Clint's case, the 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.520 Oklahoma City bombing, you know, more recently obviously for Trump, 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.200 the virus. I think you could put right. I mean, 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.080 I think we all remember those images and that video 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:47.040 of George W. Bush at Ground zero, perfect example, and 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.840 and that is that moment when the president becomes bigger 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.000 than the person, bigger than the job, becomes a national 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.960 you know, figure, a national healer and national consoler. And 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.640 I think you could take every word Donald Trump said 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.800 and sympath need to people who call COVID and put 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.920 it on a single page. I mean, I remember watching 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.240 those briefings and just being struck, night after night ter 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.920 night of how he just even the most cursory, sort 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.960 of perfunctory words of sympathy or empathy or concern almost 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.280 did not pass his lips. And again, I guess if 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.920 if Mary Trump were here, she tells he's he's a narcissist. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:20.960 So that's you know, that's they tend to only see 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:22.920 themselves and not the rest of the world. But I 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.760 really do think the virus in that way exposed Trump 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.120 just in a really sort of brutal way that the 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.640 person that he is. You know, again, sometimes you want 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:33.560 the president to be a tough guy and different things. Well, 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.240 I think right now people are looking for a little 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.720 bit of empathy, a little bit of human compassion. They're 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.800 not finding it in Donald Trump. Yeah, considering that, you know, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.600 the nation has been in lockdown and everybody kind of 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.360 experiencing all of this together, you certainly probably can make 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.320 the case for saying you want a president who understands 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.440 that if you put it all together, though, it takes 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.440 me craig to another story that's among the most read 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.520 by Jonathan Bernstein about um, oh, not that one. I'm sorry, 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.480 it's another story, but it talks about Nick Wadham about 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.520 the pandemic response turning America first into America lest I 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.560 do wonder how if you add all of this up, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.080 what it does for the United States on a global state. Yeah, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:11.960 that was I'm really proud of that story. In the 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.480 State Department reporter and he um, he kind of he 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.320 kind of observed, you know, again, Trump came to office 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.080 on a travel band keeping on some of the Muslim nations. Well, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.280 now the US is so the subject of a travel 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.240 band of sorts. The youth says Americans can't travel there 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:27.960 because of our high rates of the virus. And he 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.040 kind of goes to the story and lay that all 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.040 the examples of how again a time of a global crisis, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.200 the United States often to be the leader, sort of 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.880 pulling the rest of the world along and something. In 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.960 this case, we're kind of the laggered um and people 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.520 are you know, the suspicion of Trump grows ever deeper. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.720 I think this is actually an issue that would happen 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.320 even if Joe Biden gets elected, that the world has 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.800 learned we were, you know, they're always just one election 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.640 away from the United States turning inward in the way 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.840 that Donald Trump did, and Joe Biden would try to 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.760 reverse that. But I don't think feeling way quickly, Greg 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.080 got to leave it there, unfortunately. Great to catch up 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.520 to the u DC Bureau Chief and Executive Vedor Craig Gordon. 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.240 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.040 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Now we Jason have turned to 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.320 her before to hear about her firsthand experiences of dealing 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.959 with COVID nineteen. Her stories have been featured in the magazine. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:22.040 Back with Us is Bloomberg News Financial Investigations Senior writer 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.439 Stephanie Baker. She's joining us once again on the phone 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.439 from London, and she has taken several antibody tests before 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.000 she could trust the results. So let's get into her 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.280 experience here. Stephanie, is good to have you back with us. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.320 Tell us about this latest story. You had five antibody 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.359 tests that you've taken before you could really kind of 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.159 trust the results, right, that's right. UM. A couple of 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.639 months ago, I took four antibody tests a finger prick 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.480 antibody tests that were on the market at the time 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.399 that many people had questioned their reliability, UM, and I 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.720 got conflicting results. I got two positives and two negatives 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.600 and sort of gave up, even though I had cross 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.280 checked them with various other doctors and nurses who had 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.960 tested positive for COVID. So I was left a bit 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.199 confused about my status. When UM, some of the newer 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.159 tests came out that are based on an intravenous blood 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.960 draw UM. They appear to be more accurate and more sensitive. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.919 So I finally got around to taking one of these tests, 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.720 the Abbot tests, which is does have some pretty good 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.359 data behind it, and I wasn't depositive, and I was 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.600 somewhat relieved that I figured I have three positives versus 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.040 two negatives, and one of the positives seems to be 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.800 more reliable and has some pretty hard science behind it. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.280 So having studied this, Stephanie, I have to ask you, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.200 why is this so hard? I I agree it shouldn't 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.760 be this hard, and I think it's hard because we 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:55.000 are still learning so much about this virus UM. You know. 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.920 I think some of the tests were trying to figure 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.879