WEBVTT - Ep51 - Aaron Sorkin / "Molly’s Game" 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 You're listening to playback a Variety podcast. I'm your host, 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:26.200 Variety Awards editor Chris Tappily three times and it was 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:31.800 sort of the sound of the crew not really being 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:37.360 able to help, laughing a little bit off camera. Um, 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:42.159 but boys a track sound terror, hey man, Live and learn. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.200 I guess thanks for coming on. Basically, the way this works, 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.640 I've got like a little intro at the top, and 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.199 then I'll bring you in and we'll chat for half 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:55.880 an hour. Great, everybody settled? Is this what we're gonna have? Okay? Cool? Laura, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.960 hang on one sect. Sure. I would just like you 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:05.040 to take my phone. It's on vibrate. I think. Okay. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:06.880 I had my phone ring in the middle of one 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:08.360 of these. I was like, it never happens with me, 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.440 because anybody it's the the you know, the talent. I 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.200 think if the phone rings in the middle of the 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.679 at least you could do is technical. I think you 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:17.920 always had to add the flavor to it, all right. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.080 My guest today is the Oscar winning screenwriter behind films 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.000 like A Few Good Men, Charlie Wilson's War and The 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.640 Social Network, and the Emmy winning writer behind series like 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.920 The West Wing and the newsroom. Now he's moving behind 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.280 the camera for the first time as a director of 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.880 Molly's Game, The Wild True life story of high Stakes 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.920 Poker Maven Molly Bloom. His name is Aaron Sorkin, and 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:40.240 we're pleased to have him on the show. Thanks for 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.200 coming on, sir. It's pleasure to be here. I kind 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.480 of hate actually saying the high Stakes Poker Maven Molly Bloom, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.120 because she's so complex, she's so more, so, much more 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.160 than even this one story in her life's exactly right, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.320 and that is was the genesis of the movie. I 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.520 was asked to read the book that she wrote and 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.240 to meet with her, and I read the book. The 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.680 book is a wild ride. It's a really fun read. Uh. Um. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.520 But I was expecting to meet the high stakes poker 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.240 may Haven Molly Bloom, or the poker princesses they called her. 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.320 I was expecting to me, frankly, someone I wasn't gonna 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.880 like very much, someone or someone I wasn't gonna respect 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.800 very much. I was expecting to meet someone who was 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:28.880 just cashing in on their decade long brush with celebrity. Uh. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.919 My first meeting with Molly was one hour long and 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:37.960 within ten minutes she had completely turned me around. Uh. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:43.840 She is not that at all. She's remarkably bright woman, 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:51.520 hyper competent woman. She has a rise sense of humor. Uh. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:57.720 But she's not at all interested in gossip or and she, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:03.640 it turns out, is built out of character and integrity. Uh. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:09.239 And far from cashing in on her Brushwood celebrity, she 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.920 has paid a big price for not cashing in on 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:20.920 her Brushwood celebrity. She would have been guaranteed her freedom. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:25.400 She would have had all her money was taken from 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.440 her by the FBI, she would have been given all 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:33.600 of her money back plus interest. Uh. If only she 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.200 would tell some of the stories that she had, which 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.800 she was, by the way, perfectly willing to do if 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.560 it meant putting bad guys in jail. Well, what I 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.440 mean by that for people who are confused by now 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.920 is uh. When she moved the game from Hollywood to 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:56.040 New York, things trouble found her because she had inadvertently 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.320 seated at the game three members of the Russian mob 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.600 as well as an FBI in format um. And the 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:06.840 FBI was their intention to use Molly to prosecute Uh. 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.000 These Russian mobsters and Molly doesn't like mobsters any more 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.440 than anyone else. She got beaten up by one and 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.040 a gun uh put in her mouth, but she didn't 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.839 know anything that could help the prosecutors at all. The 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.320 prosecutors had her there so that the New York Post 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:33.320 would cover the trial. Um. Back to the first meeting. Uh, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:38.719 she immediately struck me as uh real life and very 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:44.119 unique movie hollen And who had only told the tip 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.719 of the iceberg in the book, there was much more story, 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.880 and she she wrote a very good story that left 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.880 bread crumbs to a better story. That first meeting led 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.679 to hundreds of others meetings with her over the course 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:03.680 of a seven in eight months. So when you were 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.400 reading the book, did you get that sense that there 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:11.080 was more outside what I was reading the book? Um? 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:12.719 Every once in a while there seemed to be a 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:19.240 contradiction or a question like Uh she mentions games that 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.480 lasted two and three days, but she never mentions drugs 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.599 uh in there. And I don't know how a game 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.600 poker game came last two or three days. If there 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.760 isn't that much red bull in the world, there are 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:35.640 aphetamines around someplace or coke? Um uh And uh So 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.720 when I said that to her, she said, there were 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.719 drugs and I'm two years clean. Uh. Now that very 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:49.040 moment is in the movie. Uh. What what was developing 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.279 in my head over time was that there are really 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.240 two stories here that that are in bed with each 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.640 other and should be. Uh. There is the story she 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:05.039 tell in the book, which is the story of a young, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:10.520 very promising, world class skier who's headed to Harvard Law School. Uh. 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.479 And she's got a life mapped out and it's going 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.840 to be a great life. And and and not just 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.320 a successful one, but a good one. She or her 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:27.960 intention was to begin a foundation that seeds entrepreneurial entrepreneurial women. Um. Uh. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:29.599 So the book is the story of how she goes 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.440 from there too, uh, running the world's most exclusive high 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:39.159 stakes poker game. When she finished the book, she hadn't 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.840 yet been arrested. Um. And as Charlie and Yourse, Elvis's 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.640 character in the movie says, he finished your book before 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.200 the good part happened. Right. So there was that story, 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:52.479 and then there was the story of today of what 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.760 was going on at the time that I met her, 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.520 which was the FBI trying to coerce her uh into 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:05.440 testifying um all a lot of Hollywood players whose names 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.160 we know, wanting to buy her life rights, but only 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.000 on the condition that she would tell the stories that 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.040 she was unwilling to tell the southern district of New 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:24.040 York as and finally, her father. Uh. In the book Uh, 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.880 she speaks about her father at the very beginning of 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.200 the book, and she explains that you know, he's a 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.960 he's a hard driving father and that uh success in 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.360 academics and athletics were important to him, for her and 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.080 for her two younger brothers, the youngest of whom, while 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.240 she was ranked third in North America in women's mobiles, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.080 he was ranked first in the world in men's mobiles. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.920 So uh, she was it was hard for her to 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.880 sort of break into the rankings of her own Thanksgiving dinner. UM. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:05.040 But she told me, you know, about her strained and complicated, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:11.000 very nuanced relationship with her father. And I just started 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:17.520 seeing a movie that was bigger than uh than the 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.880 Poker Maithan than the Poker Princess, uh, and a movie 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.800 that's unexpected uh, and and a movie hero UH that's 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:35.400 unexpected and uh and that's I almost immediately knew that 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.960 the thing I was supposed to right next. I wasn't 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.760 gonna write next. I was gonna write this next. I 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.480 had a feeling about it. I had the hardest time 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:50.280 pitching it, describing it to people. I knew what it was, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.160 but I couldn't articulate it. I can't. I can't remember 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.120 the timeline. But did you come into it like you? 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.199 I want to direct this. I wanted to be no, no, 0:08:58.200 --> 0:08:59.920 no no. I had no thought of directing. I came. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.760 I came into it the same way I can't come 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.280 to everything. It came have come into everything else. I 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.120 finished the first draft, I turned it into There were 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.000 producers now, Mark Gordon and any Pascal, and I turned 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.440 it into them. A few nights later, we had dinner. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.640 There's a piece of paper in front of each of 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.119 us with a list of about twenty names of directors. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.480 We went through each one, pros and cons. By the 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.280 time we got to the end, Uh, they put the 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.360 pieces of paper down, looked at me and said, but 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:32.080 we think you should direct it. And I didn't really 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.280 take them seriously. I I kind of us shucks it. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.640 But they made it clear that they were very serious, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:42.120 and they made their pitch. Why I talked to directors 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.280 I know and trust, and I got encouragement from them. 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.600 But the reason ultimately I decided to direct it for 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.480 better or for worse, was I knew that there was 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:57.000 with this story a gravitational pull uh back toward the book, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.960 back towards the shiny objects, the decadence, the amor the money, 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:07.760 the sex, uh and the bold faced Hollywood names um 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.840 and UH. I wanted to do a story set against 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:15.600 the backdrop of that. Uh. You know, obviously there's gonna 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.120 be poker in this movie, but it's not a poker movie. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.720 We're never gonna care who wins or loses a hand. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:32.040 This isn't the same as rounders, um. Uh. It's it's about, uh, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.960 how did she get from here to there? And now 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.480 let's put the stuff that's not in the book in there, 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.240 the Russians and her father, UM and I believe that 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.240 it can be much just a deeper, more resonant, more emotional, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:52.920 and best of all, more uplifting story. That this was 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:58.640 a story about a real life movie hero uh who 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.320 has the kind of her her qualities that I tend 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:08.120 to uh write about that with romanticism and an idealism, 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.000 I directed it for that reason, and I directed it 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:17.200 because I wanted to ensure uh, the protection of those 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.840 both faced Hollywood names, uh, that no one might have 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.520 the idea of, you know, hey, I know how he 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.360 can make this the buzziest movie of the year. Um. 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:33.160 So I did it for those reasons. That's that's my story. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.920 That's how I wrote the movie. What's more interesting is 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:43.920 what happened next, because the most important decision I was 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.439 gonna make is director was who was going to play Molly? 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.640 Right one second, though, before you get to that, I 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.280 do want to talk about that, but I'm curious, did 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.080 you write it? Would you have written it differently if 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:56.760 you knew you were going to direct it? You know, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:01.000 It's funny. I did a paddel last night where someone 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.320 asked that question, and as I told the person who 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.920 asked a question, not only was that the first time 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.960 I've ever been asked that question, it was the first 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.959 time I've ever thought about that question. Right in that 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:15.839 moment when I had to answer, was the first time 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.839 I ever thought about it? And the answer is absolutely yes, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.760 I would have. I am so grateful that I didn't know, 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.880 uh that I was directing it when I was writing it. 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:32.360 Because I would have been too scared, uh to to 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.400 write some of the scenes that I wrote. The whole 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.360 opening sequence, the first eight minutes has more action in 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.240 it than every movie I've written combined. Right, I like, 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.800 I write people talking in rooms, and it's like, the 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.680 director will take care of this exactly right. The director 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.600 is going to know how we do this ski crash. Um. 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:53.880 The director is gonna know how to you know, do 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:58.319 the getting beaten up scene? Um. Uh. The director is 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.040 gonna make these poker scenes look fantastic. Uh. You know 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.920 Fincher came along and made computer hacking look like a 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:09.280 bank robbery. Uh. That's what directors do. They take this 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.520 thing that I write, which doesn't have a whole lot 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.400 of visual interest and uh and they give it visual interests. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.960 I write the lyrics, they write the music. Um so 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.160 uh so I am grateful that that I didn't know, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.720 uh that it wouldn't have been as good a screenplay 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.280 if I had known that I was directing him. Um So, 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.240 what was the biggest learning curve just before we get 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.120 into Jessica and everything? You know, you never even I 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.440 don't think directed television anything. I've never directed anything before. 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:44.079 I I'm not a complete production, Novice. I've I've been 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:48.520 on the set every day of every movie that I've written. Uh. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.600 And as the show runner in television, you're involved in 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:56.840 every aspect of production from prep to post, and obviously 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:01.439 ire at the script too. Uh. Still, the biggest learning 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.840 curve was going to be that in the twenty five 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.720 years I've been a professional writer, I had managed to 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.480 absorb none of the science of filmmaking at all. I 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:14.040 couldn't pick a long lens out of a police lineup. Uh. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:21.000 Enter Charlotta Christiansen, our cinematographer. Charlotta uh flew over from Denmark, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.240 where she lives, to meet with me. She had just 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.200 gotten done shooting two movies, A Girl on the Train, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.840 which looked beautiful and Fences, which also looked beautiful, but 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.960 more importantly was directed by first time director Denzel Washington. 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.840 Uh So she had plenty of experience as a DP, 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.200 but experience working with the first time director, and told 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:52.400 Charlotta we talked about um my vision for the look 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.080 of the movie and two separate looks when we were 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.440 in present day and when we were showing the story 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:04.880 of Molly going from skier to uh to poker princess. Uh. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:09.480 But I told her, you know, listen, I'm just scared 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:15.360 that I don't have the vocabulary two that you that 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.960 you need the director to have for you to be 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.920 able to do your job. Uh. And she said, no, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.960 don't worry about it at all. Here, here's what's gonna happen. 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.480 We're gonna we're gonna talk about the scene. Um, we're 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.960 going to create a shot list of everything that you 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:38.080 want to get and I'm I'm going to be very opinionated. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.320 I'm gonna tell you I also want to get this shot. Uh. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.160 And this shot I'm never gonna tell you. No, I'm 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.080 not gonna do your shot, but I'm I'm gonna add 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.160 a couple of my own. But in terms of lenses 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.840 and lighting, I got this, have this handheld device and 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.920 I'm gonna snap a lens on it, and you're gonna 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:58.880 look through it, and you're gonna tell me if you 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.080 like what you see, and if you do, I'm going 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.440 to take the lens off the handheld device in pluted 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.320 on the camera. Um. Uh. And that's how we do it. 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.200 And um, there was a lot less for me to 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.080 be scared of than uh than I thought the truth 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:16.120 of the matter is that for every area of film production, 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:22.400 there's an expert uh in that position. So UM stand 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:29.880 on their shoulders. Uh, it's exactly right, whether it's production design, lighting, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:38.160 camera department, uh, anything. Um, I'm I've written the script, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.480 I've prepped. Uh, you know, spent months with the department heads. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.040 We know what it's gonna look like. We know what's 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:50.040 going to happen every hour of every day of shooting. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.600 We know what's to be accomplished. And now I can 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.600 just be with the actors uh and do And that 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.640 happened quickly enough, early on and just instantly, and it 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.600 needed to. We didn't have a choice. Uh. There was 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.080 no ramp up time here. We had to. We were 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.720 on a tight schedule. This is a movie that needed 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.719 a sixty day budget that we did in forty nine days. Uh. 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.359 That that's you know, everybody, unless your name is Spielder, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.800 every everybody has that problem if you don't have enough 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:27.879 shooting days. Um. But Uh, we began we with the 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.880 scenes between Jessica and Address uh in his office. Those 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:37.119 are seven eight nine page scenes of dance dialogue. Uh. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:42.600 And while they were shot fairly conventionally, I don't mean boringly, 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:47.080 they look beautiful, They're lit beautifully, and uh, really, Charlotta 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:52.159 is a superstar. Um, she's very underrated. I feel that 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.680 Far from the Medda Crowd was amazing. Yeah, I agreed, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.800 the Far from the Maddening Crowd was amazing. But I 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.119 don't think she's underrated. I just think that she is 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:06.520 not yet as known as she will be. I think 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.200 this movie is gonna change that. Um. I think that 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.399 people are gonna see it and say, WHOA who shot that? 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:21.880 Because it deserves that that kind of reaction. Um. But Uh. Two, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.199 that there was insufficient rehearsal time for those scenes between 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.480 Jessica and Uh and indress. So I instituted about six 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:35.719 weeks before photography started, virtual rehearsals, Skype, email phone calls. 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.840 We would talk through every beat, every transition, and I 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:44.399 would emphasize to them that you can't learn this in 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.280 the makeup trailer on the morning. Uh, it's you're you're 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.520 never gonna make it and you're gonna be very unhappy 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.080 with your performance. That you can't just memorize the words. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.000 You've got to take ownership of this language. You have 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.480 to be able to casualize the language. You have to 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.200 be able to toss it off like it's your phone number, UM, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.920 and that way, uh, because you won't have to think 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.760 about the words anymore. You get the performances. You get 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.639 what you hire Jessica and address for uh. And had 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:23.880 the two of them not come as prepared as they did, 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.080 had the two of them been a half inch less talented, 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.880 uh than they are, less skilled than they are, than 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.399 less committed than they are, the movie would have fallen 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:41.400 off the screen. But instead, Uh, I think that those 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:47.959 scenes are explosive. You were talking briefly about just, you know, 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.520 some of the ideas you had for the looks early 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.800 in the movie, later in the movie. That brings me 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:54.960 to a question I have, which were which is what 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.680 were some of those visual ideas you had to tell 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.840 the story visually. What kind of struck you early on? 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.880 Even that carried all the way through. Well, the main 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.800 idea was that they were going to be uh, two 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.520 different looks. That in present day, as I said, we're 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.360 gonna shoot it fairly conventionally, or a better word would 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.359 be literally. Uh, it was all going to be literal, 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:22.240 but that in the past it was gonna look different. 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.720 We were gonna poker. And I'm not a poker player, 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.120 but I'm a sports fan, so my TV is on ESPN, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.440 and every once in a while, when there is absolutely 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.160 no other sporting event happening in the world, they will 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:47.080 show poker on ESPN. You can't imagine a worst spectator sport. Okay, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:52.359 it's it's boring to watch, it's ugly to look at. Uh, 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:57.120 there's there's nothing there. And I again, I never saw 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.480 this as a poker movie. Um there. I didn't write 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.600 a single scene in the script where we're ever asked 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.760 to care who wins or loses a hand of poker. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.040 In fact, there's only one scene in which a full 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.919 hand of poker is traumatized, scene in which Bill Camp 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:18.200 playing Harlan Eustace goes on what's called full tilt, which 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.200 means I know it will Okay, I'm sorry to hear that. 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.560 It means you're on a losing streak, you've lost your mind. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.400 Uh uh, you should get up and walk away from 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:31.240 the table. But there's no turning back here. You're going. 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.960 You're like Chevy Chase in Vegas vacation, going back to 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.679 the uh the a T M machine to play the 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.720 guy and I forgot who played the black jack. I 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:45.280 can't reference Vegas vacations with the expertise that that you can. Um, 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:51.280 but it's uh more like uh a coke addict at 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.879 four in the morning looking for anyone who's got more 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:59.680 cob Okay. Um, that's the only scene uh where we're 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.480 watching your hand, And again we're not caring who wins 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:07.399 or loses. We're listening to Molly demonstrate. Here's how someone 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.280 goes on full tilt. Okay, here's how it happens. Here's 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:15.920 the origin of it. But in all other cases, it's 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.400 just the the energy of playing poker. And we're watching 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:24.080 Molly learn it. She she's a spun she's a computer. 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.520 Uh that way here learns incredibly fast and then extrapolates 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:35.120 and uh so the shooting style there would be we're 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:39.480 gonna get We're gonna spend days around these poker tables, 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:45.199 getting what I would call micro shots, uh, shards of things, 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:49.760 of chips being slapped down, cards being turned over, a shuffled, 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.080 a new deck being cut open, ice going into a 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.479 glass of cigarette being lit, more cash, more buying, somebody 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:59.439 pulling in uh chips, cards, cards, cards, poker, poker poker. 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:02.879 We're gonna get hundreds and hundreds of these shots. And 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:07.280 in post, the editors and I are gonna build these 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:13.160 poker scenes, um, and they'll they'll be very exciting. Uh. 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:18.199 Same with skiing. We're never gonna see somebody's ski from 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.240 the top of the slope to the bottom of the slope. 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:24.480 That doesn't matter. Uh, We're gonna get in there tight. 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.480 I want to see ice coming off of of the 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.000 edges of skis. I want to see a hand gripping 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:33.720 the polls, that kind of thing. Sound is crucial with 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.600 all of this too. Then in post, I'm really glad 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:42.960 you brought that up because sound I've been singing this 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:51.040 him for years of how crucial sound is. I cannot, unfortunately, 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:55.560 go to every movie theater in America UM and test 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:59.480 their sound system, uh, and decide whether or not it's 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:04.000 fit to uh you know, to to play movies. So 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:06.520 you're a little bit at the mercy of of the 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:11.280 delivery system for the movie. However, the sound design on 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:19.480 this um, just as you know in in every Scorsese movie, UM, 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.520 he kind of makes the decision early on. We know 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:28.520 with the help of his sound guys. Uh, what a 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.000 gun is gonna sound like in that particular movie. Um, 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:36.040 And what it's gonna sound like when a bullet pierces 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.400 a body. It's different in every movie. If you remember, 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:44.000 in The Departed, it was a very distinct sound that 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:46.560 the bullet had. Everyone who gets shot in that movie 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.159 gets shot in the head. Um uh, and there's a 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.560 blast flat whether. Yeah, by the way, these are all 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.440 It's one of my all time favorite movies. But there 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.720 is a different sound to a gun and every assessing movie. 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.800 Well in this movie. Uh, what was important to me 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:09.639 is what a chip sound like when they're slacked down? Um, 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.960 or when someone shuffling them? What are cards are sound like? 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:15.560 What does that ice sound like when it's spreading off 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:19.080 the edge of a ski? Uh? All all those sounds, 0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:21.960 how heightened can they be? How heightened can the clinking 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:26.639 of ice and a glass be? Um? Uh? You know 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:29.840 what does it sound like when a judge drops a 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:33.560 stack of documents on a desk in a big echoque courtroom? 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:39.040 That kind of thing. Our whole sound team, from the 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:44.280 sound engineers UH engineer in Toronto recording the production track 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:49.520 to the sound designers here at home. The mixers UH 0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:54.160 are the editors we're so into this, uh, and worked 0:25:54.760 --> 0:26:01.120 so hard from before sunrise after sunset. Um though exact 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:06.960 things um uh, particularly when I would give them a 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:10.880 note like, uh, you know the blade of the ice, 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:16.440 skate on the ice. This it's just a better sound available. 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:19.320 That's there's there's a really great sound, and I just 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:24.680 want to find it. Uh. They would take that as 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:29.399 a personal challenge um uh, and they wouldn't go home until, 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:34.560 you know, they had built that that sound. I since 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:37.720 we're talking about post production, I have to mention that 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:44.960 our editors Alan baum Garden, Josh Shaffer and and Elliot Graham, 0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:49.840 along with Charlotta r DP, I consider those people to 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:57.639 be co authors of of this movie. Um. That listen, 0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:01.359 the structure, the the you know, the the cutting that 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:03.520