Speaker 1: Hey, it's Carol and Tim and we have something new
Speaker 1: and exciting for you.
Speaker 2: Everything you love about Bloomberg Radio is now in your car.
Speaker 1: The new Bloomberg Business App now featuring Apple CarPlay and
Speaker 1: Android Auto.
Speaker 2: Listen to your favorite Bloomberg Radio stations anytime.
Speaker 1: Plus every Bloomberg podcast, the latest news, and more, all
Speaker 1: at the click of a button.
Speaker 2: It's free and simple to use. Just download the Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business App on your smartphone and connect your phone to
Speaker 2: your car.
Speaker 1: The Bloomberg Business App now with Apple CarPlay and Android
Speaker 1: Auto features. Download it free in the Apple App Store
Speaker 1: or on Google Play.
Speaker 2: Presented by our sponsor, Interactive Brokers.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek inside from the reporters and editors
Speaker 3: who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business,
Speaker 3: finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with
Speaker 3: Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 4: All Right, they're out there, may be back in.
Speaker 5: They're not.
Speaker 4: They're now hired by Microsoft the streaming services already battling. Probably,
Speaker 4: I'm guessing to tell this high tech, high stake story.
Speaker 4: We are, of course, talking about the Palace coup that
Speaker 4: all began on Friday, led to the firing of open
Speaker 4: ai co founders Sam Altman and Greg Brockman, which led
Speaker 4: to so many questions, led to open AI's biggest shareholder
Speaker 4: and closest technology partner, Microsoft, then tim hiring the two
Speaker 4: to lead its new in house advanced artificial intelligence research team.
Speaker 1: And then you have the hundreds of open ai employees,
Speaker 1: including the board member that did the actual firing, then
Speaker 1: signing a letter to say that they were going to leave.
Speaker 1: So you have more than seven hundred of the employees
Speaker 1: at open.
Speaker 5: Ai, basically just about everybody, almost everybody.
Speaker 4: You can't see this on radio, guys, but for those
Speaker 4: who are on YouTube and Bloomberger originals, these are just
Speaker 4: some of the stories that I had printed out covering
Speaker 4: everything to do with open Ai.
Speaker 1: Do you know who spent a lot of his weekend
Speaker 1: writing those stories?
Speaker 3: Old Man?
Speaker 5: Thank god he did, because he's going to keep us
Speaker 5: all honest on this story.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's a one man band and a key player to
Speaker 1: our incredible tech team that has worked all weekend to
Speaker 1: stay on top of the story. Carol, we got Ed Ludlow,
Speaker 1: co host of Bloomberg Technology, joining us on zoom from
Speaker 1: San Francisco.
Speaker 5: All right, so Ed, let's cut to the chase.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think, what's the way to think about
Speaker 4: this story that I feel like we have to constantly
Speaker 4: check the headlines to see what's the latest.
Speaker 5: How are you thinking about it?
Speaker 7: Here?
Speaker 5: We are at three h nine Wall Street time on
Speaker 5: a Monday.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it is a full mutiny within the world's most
Speaker 8: important AI company that is completely unresolved and has massive
Speaker 8: repercussions for public markets viz. Of v Microsoft, but also
Speaker 8: private markets. You know, there's just hundreds of millions of
Speaker 8: dollars in real time hanging in the balance on open
Speaker 8: AI shares, And we can get into that. But let's
Speaker 8: say I've spoken to one hundred people in the last
Speaker 8: seventy two hours, and this is an unprecedented story in
Speaker 8: the history of Silicon Valley in how it played out,
Speaker 8: what happened, and just how much of it is frankly unresolved.
Speaker 8: And I guess we could get to that too.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's we're going to get to where the
Speaker 1: company is valued and what happened to the share sales
Speaker 1: and the money sort of being held up that's supposed
Speaker 1: to come from Thrive and other vcs at this point.
Speaker 1: But first I want to start with the basic said,
Speaker 1: why did What do we know about why Sam Altman
Speaker 1: got the boot on Friday?
Speaker 8: Yeah, we honestly don't know why. Open ai had a
Speaker 8: very small has still there a very small four person board.
Speaker 8: That board issued a statement saying around Friday lunch time
Speaker 8: and by the way, I was at a restaurant having
Speaker 8: lunch with an open ai investor. It broke and you
Speaker 8: you know, yeah, that was a crazy moment in my career.
Speaker 8: You can only imagine.
Speaker 5: Anyway, was the person was the person shocked?
Speaker 8: We both boxed our food and ran for it, physically
Speaker 8: ran and as you guys know, I was on TV
Speaker 8: with a minute. But listen. The board said it had
Speaker 8: lost confidence in Sam Altman based on his sort of
Speaker 8: less than candid communications with the board, without elaborating further.
Speaker 8: On Saturday morning, bradl like Cap, who is the COO
Speaker 8: of open ai and remains COO of open Ai, issued
Speaker 8: a memo to staff saying that this was a breakdown
Speaker 8: in a communication between Sam Outman and that four person board,
Speaker 8: but there was no element of malfeasance. That's the language used.
Speaker 8: What we know from sources is that there is some
Speaker 8: sort of philosophical disagreement here. Sam Altman is a product guy.
Speaker 8: He is about getting that generative AI technology into the
Speaker 8: real world, charging money for it, getting it into the
Speaker 8: hands of consumers and enterprises. The board, the four of
Speaker 8: them are largely academics who recognize an existential threat from
Speaker 8: AI posed to humanity and that there's a point of
Speaker 8: difference there somewhere along the way. But we don't know
Speaker 8: more than that. There's so much more to be unveiled.
Speaker 4: Well it makes you wonder, okay, so you know, it
Speaker 4: makes me kind of nervous that the board wasn't able
Speaker 4: to maybe talk to it CEO right before doing this.
Speaker 4: Help me out, wait, go ahead, yeah, right, Well.
Speaker 8: The chronology of it is astonishing. Sources say Sam Outman
Speaker 8: found out he was being fired as CEO minutes before
Speaker 8: he was fired as CEO. Mirror Morati, who was that
Speaker 8: then the CTO was informed the night before of what
Speaker 8: was going to happen and that she would become acting CEO.
Speaker 8: And what's astonishing, you know, Ashley Vance, our dear colleague
Speaker 8: Business Week, myself, people like Dina Bass, Emily Chang, you know,
Speaker 8: we were hearing pretty early on Saturday and Sunday, then
Speaker 8: into Sunday afternoon that the board was digging in. They
Speaker 8: were like, no, we're not caving, We're going to hire
Speaker 8: a new CEO. But the messages from the Sam Oltman
Speaker 8: side were like, right up until the last minute last night,
Speaker 8: Sam's coming back as CEO, and the net result is
Speaker 8: that Sam has left joined Microsoft and we have a
Speaker 8: new interim CEO open AI. I'm just trying to give
Speaker 8: some sense of like, yeah, how all of this just
Speaker 8: played in real time and it's ramid. Yeah, it was rapid,
Speaker 8: but also everyone was wrong. You know everyone, the investors
Speaker 8: that were trying to get Sam Altman back in the
Speaker 8: CEO role were adamant that it was going to happen.
Speaker 8: Satya Nadella, who's the Microsoft CEO, was playing the peace broker,
Speaker 8: the middle man, doing everything that he could to put
Speaker 8: Sam Altman back. Yeah, but my understanding is the board
Speaker 8: they just didn't pick up the phone.
Speaker 1: I mean, I went to bed last night ed thinking
Speaker 1: that Sam Altman would be back at open AI. After all,
Speaker 1: he tweeted out that photo of him at headquarters yesterday
Speaker 1: wearing the badge thing. It's the first and last time
Speaker 1: I'm going to be wearing this everyone thought, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was a visitor's badge. So then I wake
Speaker 1: up this morning and find out that he's at Microsoft.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the I mean it I kind
Speaker 1: of had to like check read it twice. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is going on here? Go back to philosophical differences here,
Speaker 1: because that's a big part of this story is the
Speaker 1: way that people think AI will play a role in
Speaker 1: our lives in humanity moving forward. Yes, where does Sam
Speaker 1: Altman find himself? And where do others find themselves? And
Speaker 1: where's the rift?
Speaker 8: So he finds himself at odds with the board. I mean,
Speaker 8: that's kind of part of why we're here. And the
Speaker 8: way to answer that question is to reflect on what happens.
Speaker 8: So Emmit Sheer was installed late last night as interim
Speaker 8: CEO of Open AI. And what sources told me and
Speaker 8: we reported is that a reason he was installed as
Speaker 8: interim CEO was that he shared with the board a
Speaker 8: recognition that advanced artificial intelligence does pose an existential threat,
Speaker 8: an ex threat to humankind otherwise known in layman's terms.
Speaker 8: That's what it means. I'm not going to go down
Speaker 8: the whole EA route. And he shared that in common
Speaker 8: with the board, while also the board recognized that he
Speaker 8: was the Twitch CEO as recently as earlier this year, right,
Speaker 8: they felt that he could run a very large engineering team.
Speaker 8: And again I reiterate, we actually have no idea why
Speaker 8: the real reasons why the board fired Sam other than
Speaker 8: there was concern at how quickly he was commercializing that AI.
Speaker 4: So how important is Sam to open AI? He's one
Speaker 4: of the co founders.
Speaker 8: How the question, Yeah, yeah, that's it. I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 8: go ahead, sorry, who.
Speaker 5: Owns the IP?
Speaker 4: Like I think about that intellectual property that has so long,
Speaker 4: so far been developed that Microsoft has ponied up or
Speaker 4: promised you some ten billion dollars in it?
Speaker 5: Who owns that?
Speaker 8: So it's complicated. Microsoft literally owns forty nine percent of
Speaker 8: the incorporated four prop open AI, which is governed by
Speaker 8: not for profit board on which Microsoft does not sit.
Speaker 8: The basic answer is that the intellectual property is the current,
Speaker 8: prior and future generations of large language model. But this
Speaker 8: is the story, and the story of the last twenty
Speaker 8: four or to forty eight hours has been key man
Speaker 8: risk that investors suddenly started to recognize that if you
Speaker 8: took out Sam Altman, who is responsible for the products
Speaker 8: flying around the world, talking to policymakers, attracting the top
Speaker 8: talent and the investors, and all of the data scientists
Speaker 8: who matter, are willing to leave with him. Then what's
Speaker 8: left over is that open ai does not have any value.
Speaker 8: The intellectual property and value is in those eggheads forgive
Speaker 8: the phrase that are running the place. That's what's happening here.
Speaker 1: So we have about thirty seconds left, said Microsoft, What
Speaker 1: does he do at Microsoft? Because he just tweeted that
Speaker 1: his priority is to continue development and open ai and
Speaker 1: that's the reason why he's at Microsoft.
Speaker 5: And kiddo, just got about thirty or thirty five seconds.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the door is absolutely open to Sam Altman going
Speaker 8: back to open ai. Investors are still trying to make
Speaker 8: that happen. My understand is the paperwork ain't signed to
Speaker 8: make Sam bind it to Microsoft, and I'm pretty sure
Speaker 8: Microsoft will be okay with an outcome where Sam went back.
Speaker 8: We just don't know, so you might not.
Speaker 5: Get sleep tonight. Is that basically a kiddo.
Speaker 9: Oh, I know, I wish listen.
Speaker 4: I know, I know, but we so appreciate all the
Speaker 4: reporting you and the team have done because You've kept
Speaker 4: us smart, honest, and just up to date on this
Speaker 4: very rapidly moving and still moving story.
Speaker 5: Ed Ludlow, Yeah, yeah, you are the best. Take an
Speaker 5: app at least twenty minutes.
Speaker 4: It revives at Ludlow, co host of Bloomberg Technology on
Speaker 4: Zoom from San Francisco. Folks, We're not going away from
Speaker 4: this story. Still more to come read here on Bloomberg
Speaker 4: business Week.
Speaker 3: If you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, catch
Speaker 3: us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg
Speaker 3: Business app, or want us live on YouTube.
Speaker 4: Staying with the story of the day, Microsoft hit a
Speaker 4: new all time high after the software giant hired open
Speaker 4: ai co founder Sam Altman and Greg Brockman to lead
Speaker 4: its new in house advanced artificial intelligence research team.
Speaker 5: We were just talking about this with our own ed
Speaker 5: Luve Love.
Speaker 1: Okay, so if you're just getting up to speed, remember
Speaker 1: Microsoft is open AI's biggest shareholder and closest tech partner,
Speaker 1: made at least ten billion dollar investment in the company.
Speaker 1: The news at the start of the year is really
Speaker 1: what got us all talking about chat, GPT and generative AI.
Speaker 1: Microsoft certainly has its own AI initiatives. Google is aggressively
Speaker 1: working on it. Tesla does a lot with AI, so
Speaker 1: are others with more We got with us Crawford Delprett,
Speaker 1: President of IDC, the global research, analysis and advisory firm
Speaker 1: for information technology, telecom and consumer tech markets. Crawford joined
Speaker 1: us on Zoom from Massachusetts. Hey, Crawford, give us an
Speaker 1: idea of your reaction when this broke on Friday. This
Speaker 1: is a world that you are deeply enmeshed in. What
Speaker 1: were your first thoughts?
Speaker 7: Yeah, Oh my god, Hey Tim, how are you guys?
Speaker 7: This was a this was a moment, and this is
Speaker 7: a moment in tech. It was kind of a head
Speaker 7: scratcher in terms of how open AI could think this way,
Speaker 7: how they could think about making this rational move, and
Speaker 7: really how the dominoes were all lined up for if
Speaker 7: you make this move without really a concrete vision to
Speaker 7: be able to communicate why you're going in that direction,
Speaker 7: how you could end up in a situation like we're
Speaker 7: in right now, where you've got employees revolting, where you've
Speaker 7: got management shake up, and then where you've got a
Speaker 7: possibility that Sam could end up in a in a
Speaker 7: different place, or in maybe a place where you know,
Speaker 7: he could be very, very happy and do a lot
Speaker 7: of things going forward.
Speaker 4: It has such a cinematic feel to it. Crawford, You
Speaker 4: guys advise, you do research, you do analysis. Are your
Speaker 4: clients calling you off the hook and just saying, hey, folks,
Speaker 4: it's way too early to kind of figure out what
Speaker 4: the longer term narrative is here?
Speaker 7: Of course, Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot
Speaker 7: of need to under stand and people trying to absorb this.
Speaker 7: But I think that you know, long term, this is
Speaker 7: a time where the future of tech is really on
Speaker 7: the table. And this is not uncommon. This is not
Speaker 7: unlike what we saw in the two thousand time frame
Speaker 7: leading up where we had Netscape and we had we
Speaker 7: had Explorer, and we had the sort of the future
Speaker 7: of the web or not like we saw and not
Speaker 7: unlike what we saw in twenty ten with the web
Speaker 7: two dot zero companies, where you had salesforce accelerating and
Speaker 7: you had the cloud accelerating. I think everyone knows that,
Speaker 7: all customers know that the pieces as they move around
Speaker 7: right now are going to form the next decade or
Speaker 7: more of tech, and so I think people are just
Speaker 7: sort of watching how this ultimately plays out, but knowing
Speaker 7: that probably the landscape a tech has changed dramatically for
Speaker 7: a decade or more.
Speaker 1: He I want to bring in Rachel Metz. She's Bloomberg
Speaker 1: News AI reporter. She joins us on zoom from San Francisco. Rachel,
Speaker 1: you were up all weekend covering this story. We read
Speaker 1: so much of your coverage and the pre shit. You're
Speaker 1: joining us today. I want to go back to what
Speaker 1: Crawford just said that the future of this tech is
Speaker 1: at stake right now. Give us your interpretation of what
Speaker 1: that means and sort of where the chips lie right now,
Speaker 1: who has what and who can do and like who
Speaker 1: can use that for what tech?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 9: No, that's an issue that I think a lot of
Speaker 9: people and a lot.
Speaker 5: Of other companies are thinking about right now.
Speaker 9: Open ai is by many consid to be the leader
Speaker 9: in for the hottest AI right now. A lot of
Speaker 9: large language models, generative AI in general. Open ai has
Speaker 9: looked to as a leader. So all these employees, like
Speaker 9: over ninety percent of the company as of this morning,
Speaker 9: had signed a letter saying, if you don't go with
Speaker 9: our demands, we're going to may, we may leave the
Speaker 9: company to fect Microsoft. Then it's a little unclear what
Speaker 9: happens to the company technology now and in the future.
Speaker 4: Well, how do you Rachel, as someone who's been covering
Speaker 4: AI for us since we all went like crazy over
Speaker 4: it earlier this year initial Microsoft investment news, You know,
Speaker 4: it just made us sit up and take notice all
Speaker 4: of a sudden, like, wait, what is this? How did
Speaker 4: we miss it? Having said that let's take the longer lens?
Speaker 4: Can we take the longer lens? As you watch the
Speaker 4: development of AI and its impact on this world, you
Speaker 4: know this philosophical debate that seems to be going on
Speaker 4: internally at open AI about the concerns the academics on
Speaker 4: the board, the worry over its impact versus so many
Speaker 4: out there. We talked to so many different CEOs and
Speaker 4: leaders about the potential of how it can, in a
Speaker 4: positive way maybe transform our world.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a conflict that's been brewing for a while
Speaker 9: in AI in general. And I mean there's that's kind
Speaker 9: of it's kind of an interesting thing for technology, right because,
Speaker 9: as you were sort of getting at there, we often
Speaker 9: think of technology, the tech industry as wanting to crush
Speaker 9: ahead as fast as possible, make things you know more
Speaker 9: in more advance, Like every time there's a new iPhone
Speaker 9: that you want, you know, the latest feature is what's
Speaker 9: happening now? Whereas when we're sending to see some people
Speaker 9: that are connected to AI and the AI research say
Speaker 9: maybe we's just slow down or maybe we need to
Speaker 9: slow down and some of that scene that sounds reasonable
Speaker 9: to some people, and some of it sounds ridiculous depending
Speaker 9: on what kind of arguments they're making for why they
Speaker 9: want to slow intown.
Speaker 1: Hey, Crawford Delpratt, come on back in here, and I
Speaker 1: want to stay on the philosophical side of things. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's sort of a couple of different camps right here
Speaker 1: about people's concerns when it comes to AI. Some people said, hey,
Speaker 1: we do, including Elon Musk, we do not want machines
Speaker 1: to become essentially more powerful, more powerful and smarter than
Speaker 1: human beings. On the other side, there are people who say,
Speaker 1: wait a second, that's not something we actually need to
Speaker 1: worry about. How do you characterize these two different sides, Like,
Speaker 1: play out the worst case scenario for me about what
Speaker 1: this could look like.
Speaker 7: Well, the worst case scenario is that you've got machines
Speaker 7: making decisions at scale and humans reacting to those to
Speaker 7: to to to those decisions and not being able to
Speaker 7: govern second guess, you know, be able to stop bad actors,
Speaker 7: humans be not being able to discern what's reality versus
Speaker 7: what's not. Think about social media, how you get people
Speaker 7: spun up with fake images, images that look real but
Speaker 7: they're but but they're not. You know, these are all
Speaker 7: the things that uh, the Open Ai board was concerned about.
Speaker 7: But you know, that doesn't mean that you can't have governance.
Speaker 7: That doesn't mean that that you can't have legislation take
Speaker 7: a much much more active role. And I think what
Speaker 7: remains to be seen is if Sam ends up at Microsoft,
Speaker 7: to what extent Microsoft will partner with governments, to what
Speaker 7: extent Google will be forced to partner with governments around
Speaker 7: these things to to to allay some of those fears.
Speaker 4: Well, I feel like Rachel too, this is kind of
Speaker 4: an amped up version of like privacy concerns, right, Like
Speaker 4: we all have given incredible amounts of information to a Google,
Speaker 4: to a Meta, to a Microsoft, so much that they
Speaker 4: know about us, right, and we're all kind of yeah, uncomfortable,
Speaker 4: but it's kind of we need it to exist. Is
Speaker 4: that kind of where we could ultimately get to with
Speaker 4: generative AI?
Speaker 9: I mean, look, I would say that what we're seeing
Speaker 9: for a number of people that are saying we need
Speaker 9: to slow down the face of AI technology, they're not
Speaker 9: talking about privacy risks so much as they're talking about
Speaker 9: things like potential extinction risks, like maybe AI that will
Speaker 9: get so good that it will kill all of us,
Speaker 9: that sort of thing, which some people say is a
Speaker 9: real risk, but a lot of people say that's ridiculous.
Speaker 9: So I mean, I think that we have to sort
Speaker 9: of like keep that in mind when we're thinking about
Speaker 9: what the people who want to slow this stuff down,
Speaker 9: what some of them are thinking, which is that they
Speaker 9: tru some of them truly believe that AI is going
Speaker 9: to potentially ill people. And you know, an existential risk
Speaker 9: is you can see how you know that you kind
Speaker 9: of go in that path and you're like, oh wow, okay.
Speaker 4: That'll that'll that'll creep you out. Hey, Crawford cut like
Speaker 4: twenty five seconds. The clients that you work with, are
Speaker 4: they more enthused, are they more worried about open AI
Speaker 4: and generative AI?
Speaker 5: Real quickly, real quickly.
Speaker 7: I think that most of the customers that we talk
Speaker 7: to are looking at it as an opportunity. They're looking
Speaker 7: at as an opportunity to be to increase productivity there,
Speaker 7: to give people skills that they never had before. But
Speaker 7: they are asking a lot about the security is tops
Speaker 7: of the list, Privacy is second on the list of
Speaker 7: things that they are most concerned about. They are taking
Speaker 7: an optimistic view, but definitely I think need need the governance.
Speaker 4: All right, guys, thank you so much. Crawford del Pratt,
Speaker 4: President of IDC. Rachel Mattz, Bloomberg News AI reporter out
Speaker 4: there in San Francisco.
Speaker 3: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 3: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 3: the Bloomberg Business App and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 3: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Speaker 3: Jo Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 1: Hey Carol. In twenty twenty one, more than two hundred
Speaker 1: thousand Americans got these letters from the Social Security Administration.
Speaker 1: These letters said that hey, we overpaid and you actually
Speaker 1: owe the Social Security Administration money.
Speaker 5: So people had to pay back the Social Security Administration.
Speaker 1: Well, if they didn't pay, their benefits would be cut
Speaker 1: off until the Social Security Administration gets its money back.
Speaker 4: All right, This is all according to our next guest,
Speaker 4: new book, It's Fascinating Social Security Horror Stories. Project yourself
Speaker 4: from the system and avoid clawbacks. This story, by the way,
Speaker 4: was the top of a sixty minute segment earlier this
Speaker 4: week that included Lawrence Kotlikoff. He's the co author tim
Speaker 4: of the book, along with Terry Savage.
Speaker 1: It's good to have you back with us, Lawrence. He's also,
Speaker 1: we should note, a professor of economics at Boston University,
Speaker 1: a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences,
Speaker 1: and a research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research,
Speaker 1: among many other things. Carol, I actually left a lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff out of a ton of books.
Speaker 4: Funny, yeah, he joins us on Zoom from Boston. So
Speaker 4: great to have you back with us, Larry. I hope
Speaker 4: this finds you. Well, let's get to the crux of it,
Speaker 4: because it is fascinating. It's also terrifying. You've also, though,
Speaker 4: been writing about the social security system for years. Why
Speaker 4: has this continued to generally be on your radar and
Speaker 4: a target a topic that requires examining in your view.
Speaker 10: Well, it actually turns out there was testimony by the
Speaker 10: Acting Commissioner in front of Congress week or so ago,
Speaker 10: and she confessed that there's a million people being called
Speaker 10: back each year. So I've been writing about these horror stories.
Speaker 10: I've been calling them horror stories. Are wrote on PBS
Speaker 10: News Hour and Forbes for years. I've been writing, and
Speaker 10: you know, because people were asking me questions about SO
Speaker 10: security and telling me this. And then I wrote another
Speaker 10: book called Money Magic, which Terry Savage is my co
Speaker 10: author on this new one. She interviewed me and then
Speaker 10: we became kind of friends, and she started sending She's
Speaker 10: a CBS News reporter in Chicago, and she started sending
Speaker 10: me questions and I said, well, these, yeah, these hard stories.
Speaker 10: I've been writing about them. And then I said, Terry,
Speaker 10: let's do two things. Let's have you in your outreach
Speaker 10: you asked people to send in their stories, and if
Speaker 10: we get it a lot, well let's put put them
Speaker 10: together in a book. Within a couple of weeks we
Speaker 10: had over one hundred and fifty. And she knows that
Speaker 10: for CBS contacts the people at sixty minutes, so a bingo,
Speaker 10: we were on six. So it's all it's been there,
Speaker 10: It's been there on for years. It's just that things
Speaker 10: came together that we could actually get this into the
Speaker 10: public attention, and then we decided we would write this book.
Speaker 10: And at the same.
Speaker 4: Time, we only have about six minutes or so. So
Speaker 4: get to the heart of like what's happening.
Speaker 10: What's happening is that there are social crety is making
Speaker 10: mistakes and the mantra is your mistake is our mistake.
Speaker 10: I mean, our mistake is your mistake, and so they
Speaker 10: can overpay you for years on disability benefits, or on
Speaker 10: your retirement benefit, on your spouse benefit, on whatever child benefits,
Speaker 10: and they are making a mistake. You don't know it.
Speaker 10: You're thinking you're getting the correct amount, and then fifteen
Speaker 10: years later you get a bill in the mail for
Speaker 10: one hundred and ten thousand dollars or fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 10: or twenty five thousand dollars. But it's usually quite big.
Speaker 10: I've seen bills as large as three hundred and four
Speaker 10: thousand dollars. They have no clue what they're doing. Really,
Speaker 10: the system is so complicated that the manual, the handbook
Speaker 10: where a manual operating manual, goes to twenty thousand pages
Speaker 10: covering twelve hundred and twenty seven twenty eight rules that
Speaker 10: are in their handbook about twelve just twelve benefits. So
Speaker 10: it's complicated beyond belief. So they make mistakes all the time,
Speaker 10: and then they don't catch them, and it's your.
Speaker 1: Your fault, Lawrence, You argue that the onus is on
Speaker 1: us to actually make sure that we're being paid the
Speaker 1: right amount. Given that the Social Security Administration has made
Speaker 1: and continues to make so many mistakes. What do people
Speaker 1: listening and watching us right now need to know about
Speaker 1: how they can make sure that they're not going to
Speaker 1: get one of these letters.
Speaker 10: Well, one of the things you know, I've done over
Speaker 10: the years is to produce a software tool called Maximizemsoli
Speaker 10: security dot com maximize Myself security dot com. We write
Speaker 10: about it in the book, but it's been there for
Speaker 10: you know years. It's thirty nine dollars. People can go
Speaker 10: and check that they're getting the correct benefit. If they're
Speaker 10: being overpaid, they can, But.
Speaker 1: Can I can I just do that by logging into
Speaker 1: the Social Security Administration website and creating an account there.
Speaker 10: Well, no, because they're not asking you. Those calculators there
Speaker 10: that they have are very primitive and make crazy assumptions,
Speaker 10: and you know it's not even clear that they're no.
Speaker 10: So I would say the answer is no. I would
Speaker 10: say the software that we have is far more accurate.
Speaker 10: We've actually corrected some of suskre's own benefit calculations and
Speaker 10: gotten them to fix their system using our software.
Speaker 4: So help me understand though, in terms of these overpayments
Speaker 4: that kind of go undetected for years and then all
Speaker 4: of a sudden, individuals are getting something from the Social
Speaker 4: Security Administration saying hey, by the way, we overpaid you
Speaker 4: and UoS a chunk of money, and sometimes, as you said,
Speaker 4: in cases it could be what more than three hundred
Speaker 4: thousand dollars, it's a lot of money. Help me understand
Speaker 4: the overpayment. Was it a slight overpayment extreme overpayment where
Speaker 4: somebody who was getting a check might have said, wow,
Speaker 4: why did that go up so much?
Speaker 10: Well, you know, here's I'll give you an example. A
Speaker 10: lady becomes disabled, she writes a child's book. It becomes
Speaker 10: a best seller for a number of years. She starts
Speaker 10: getting royalties. And then she calls every year and says, listen,
Speaker 10: I'm getting these royalties. Can I still get my disability check?
Speaker 10: They say, no problem, it's royalties. Then she gives a
Speaker 10: talk or to at a local library. They send her
Speaker 10: at ten ninety nine for the expense of going to whatever,
Speaker 10: parking or travel, and then so screat changes its mind
Speaker 10: ten years later, says, all those disability benefits we've been
Speaker 10: paying you for all these years, they're actually earned income
Speaker 10: because you actually took steps to make to sell your book.
Speaker 10: You gave these two talks, and therefore you always three
Speaker 10: hundred and four thousand dollars. And then the administrative she
Speaker 10: appeals the administrative wall jud says, well, it has to
Speaker 10: be our mistake. It is our mistake. But also you
Speaker 10: have to be poor. And I've looked at all your
Speaker 10: financial records, and guess what. I've looked at your cable plan,
Speaker 10: and you have lots of TV stations. It's a very
Speaker 10: rich plan, very good plan. And therefore I've decided you're
Speaker 10: not poor, and therefore you have to pay back the
Speaker 10: three hundred and four thousand dollars or we'll just continue
Speaker 10: not to pay you your check. Until the rest of
Speaker 10: you until you die.
Speaker 4: So you're saying, they say, hey, it's okay, you should
Speaker 4: get these benefits, and then all of a sudden they
Speaker 4: kind of change the rules.
Speaker 5: Is that fair to say they.
Speaker 10: Can change the rules, they can change their mind. Forty
Speaker 10: five years later, we've seen clawbacks going back. Somebody who's
Speaker 10: a forty you know, sixty five, they're being clawback for
Speaker 10: one hundred and seventy five dollars because they got a
Speaker 10: child benefit when they were for one extra month when
Speaker 10: they were nineteen, because they were still in high school
Speaker 10: and so scarity got wrong when they actually graduated high school.
Speaker 10: I mean, it's horrendous, and it's not just the disabled,
Speaker 10: it's there's we're talking about a million people a year
Speaker 10: for all kinds of reasons, and it's basically all mistakes
Speaker 10: from SO Security. If they charge us with.
Speaker 4: I know in the sixty minutes piece that the individuals
Speaker 4: that were profiled they actually I think the Social Security Administration.
Speaker 4: I think Anderson Cooper at the end of the piece
Speaker 4: said listen, they basically forgave their debt and they were
Speaker 4: looking into it as well.
Speaker 5: Is there anything that has.
Speaker 4: Moved forward in terms of Social Security and how they
Speaker 4: are managing things, And I'm wondering what you think is
Speaker 4: that the problem is it mismanagement.
Speaker 5: They don't have enough people, they don't have good technology.
Speaker 4: And my apologies because I know this is not an
Speaker 4: easy fix to this situation, but we only have about
Speaker 4: a minute left.
Speaker 10: Well, so Security has changed its philosophy internally and it's
Speaker 10: let's go get every single penny because we're broke. Although
Speaker 10: the clawbacks collectively are about twenty one billion that they're
Speaker 10: going after compared to a sixty five point nine trillion
Speaker 10: dollars unfunded liability, so it's peanuts. And they're putting all
Speaker 10: the you know, seventy seven million recipients under threat that
Speaker 10: they could be next with their relatives because I have
Speaker 10: to kick pick up the slag, yeah, if their weather
Speaker 10: whatever gets hit. So I think it's people at the
Speaker 10: top who just don't give a damn. There's there's an
Speaker 10: overarching The reason that those three people were forgiven is
Speaker 10: that there's an overarching principle that so Security can waive
Speaker 10: these callbacks if it goes against equity and good conscience.
Speaker 10: That's in the wall. So the commissioner or the action
Speaker 10: commissioner today could write just saying beyond eighteen months, it's
Speaker 10: one of us. That's it.
Speaker 5: Well, well, very interesting.
Speaker 4: There's a lot more in your book, Larry Kotlikoff, Thank
Speaker 4: you so much, Professor of economics at Boston University's book
Speaker 4: Social Security Horror Stories.
Speaker 3: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 3: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 3: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 4: Well, the Bloomberg US Aggregate Bond of Docks, it tracks
Speaker 4: at tw twenty five trillion dollars of investment grade government
Speaker 4: and corporate debt, gained about one point four percent last week.
Speaker 4: It's up five tenths of a percent for the year,
Speaker 4: and that's after we got softer than expected inflation data.
Speaker 4: That index, by the way, we should note, posted a
Speaker 4: record loss of thirteen percent in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's look into our crystal ball, and twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four hasn't sat right. Twenty three three is not
Speaker 1: even over yet, Carol, but we're already looking at that.
Speaker 1: We've got Leslie Falconio, head of Taxable fixed income strategy
Speaker 1: at UBS Global Wealth Management. She joins us on Zoom
Speaker 1: from New York City. Good to have you with us, Leslie. So,
Speaker 1: so give us an idea of what we can expect
Speaker 1: not just in the year ahead, but just in the
Speaker 1: next six weeks as we wrap up twenty twenty three.
Speaker 11: Right, well, let's let's start with the next six weeks first.
Speaker 11: I mean, you know, you know, as you know, we've
Speaker 11: rallied quite a bit from the October level of five
Speaker 11: oh one on tenure yield. I mean, as you mentioned
Speaker 11: right after that CPI number, you know, we get a
Speaker 11: really large move the market is pricing in and pushing
Speaker 11: forward now some easing from the Fed in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 11: and now we have, you know, a thirty five percent
Speaker 11: chance that they start in March. The easing in twenty
Speaker 11: four has been priced into one hundred, you know, to
Speaker 11: about one hundred base points. You know, we think that's
Speaker 11: a little bit overdone. You know, for the rest of
Speaker 11: the year. We have the Fed on December thirteenth, we
Speaker 11: still have another inflation number, we have another payroll number.
Speaker 11: So you know, I think there's a bit of fomo
Speaker 11: out there in terms of if you don't lock in
Speaker 11: right now, even though our view is no question that
Speaker 11: yields will be lower in twenty twenty four. We think
Speaker 11: around three and a half to three seventy five going
Speaker 11: into near the end of twenty twenty four. But that's
Speaker 11: not necessarily a straight line. And so we've seen a
Speaker 11: bit of this loosing of financial conditions, the equity market
Speaker 11: doing well, and a bit of reversal from the last
Speaker 11: time the Fed Fed met back you know, a month
Speaker 11: or so ago. So you know, I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 11: if we saw a little bit of rise and interest
Speaker 11: rates in the short term, but for you know, in
Speaker 11: twenty four, there's no question yields or lower.
Speaker 5: Well, one thing I.
Speaker 4: Would say, Leslie, if anything you know for me once,
Speaker 4: shame on you for me twice, because I feel like
Speaker 4: we've had some fake outs when it comes to the
Speaker 4: treasury right and there's either enthusiasm in terms of you know,
Speaker 4: or expectations at rates stay higher for longer as the
Speaker 4: that has certainly lectured us about for a long long time,
Speaker 4: you know, or all of a sudden we move in
Speaker 4: the other direction. The volatility that we can see in
Speaker 4: this market can kind of give you a bit of whiplash.
Speaker 11: No question. I mean, just look at even look at
Speaker 11: what happened with the two year. I mean, the two
Speaker 11: year moved last week around twenty basis points eight lower right.
Speaker 11: That was like the biggest movie that we've seen since SVB.
Speaker 11: So there's no question there's a lot of volatility out there.
Speaker 11: But there's a volatility because this is a show me
Speaker 11: market and you know, with you know, Chapoulo kind of
Speaker 11: having the sort of wait and see type of rhetoric,
Speaker 11: you know, every year, sort of moving on every number.
Speaker 11: When CPI was so weak, the market really adjusted really quickly.
Speaker 11: When claims came out week, the market adjusts quickly. And
Speaker 11: now that you know, we were sort of through that,
Speaker 11: if in fact we have the next CPI we have
Speaker 11: a reversal, they're gonna have a definitely different outcome that
Speaker 11: we're seeing right now in terms of treasure.
Speaker 3: Yelds.
Speaker 1: Well, that's I'm so glad you brought that up, because
Speaker 1: is it does seem like, you know, this was kicked
Speaker 1: off with the ever so slightest you know, downside surprise
Speaker 1: when it came to jobs, when it came to CPI.
Speaker 1: What happens if we find out that you know, inflation
Speaker 1: is a little stickier, getting from three to two percent
Speaker 1: than people thought.
Speaker 11: You know, I think that's that's very valid. That's why
Speaker 11: we don't think that the Fed really doesn't start to
Speaker 11: ease until the third quarter of twenty four. And it's
Speaker 11: you know best you know, it's probably his best interest
Speaker 11: right now to sort of keep that higher for longer
Speaker 11: kind of mentality for you know, the first half of
Speaker 11: twenty four, unless, of course, we see a negative payroll
Speaker 11: print or we see a large decline in confidence. But
Speaker 11: otherwise than that, there's really no reason for them to
Speaker 11: ease in March, right so that higher for longer will
Speaker 11: be there for quite some time. And I think that
Speaker 11: the market is just getting a bit you know over
Speaker 11: skis right now temporarily in terms of yields, but overall
Speaker 11: we think yields will come down. But it's too soon
Speaker 11: to say or wave a victory flag right.
Speaker 1: Before, but not too soon in your opinion to lock
Speaker 1: in some of these yields.
Speaker 11: You're absolutely right, because I mean, when you think about
Speaker 11: you know, when you get to that five percent tenure yield,
Speaker 11: or even where we are right now around that four
Speaker 11: and a half percent, you know that combounding income is
Speaker 11: a huge hell wint to total return, and that's really
Speaker 11: what we're thinking about. I mean, you know, the the
Speaker 11: amount of that yields need to rise right for you
Speaker 11: to have a negative return is you know, sixty basis poicts.
Speaker 11: It's quite a bit. And I know you were talking
Speaker 11: about earlier about the AG and what happened with the
Speaker 11: AG in twenty twenty two, and I think that's that's
Speaker 11: one of the valid points is that you know, we
Speaker 11: see everyone says, oh, could this be the third consecutive
Speaker 11: negative return of fixed income? Right? But you were starting
Speaker 11: a base case of fifty.
Speaker 1: Why buy points? Why by the ten year for four
Speaker 1: point four to two when you could buy the two
Speaker 1: year for four point nine to one.
Speaker 11: Because you have that you know, price appreciation by locking
Speaker 11: in and taking some interest rate exposure here. I mean,
Speaker 11: if anything, you're going to see that two year, which
Speaker 11: I'm sure will decline, but I don't think you're going
Speaker 11: to have that kind of you know, inflation appreciation that
Speaker 11: you're going to have by locking in some industry risk here,
Speaker 11: particularly given where we are on this.
Speaker 4: Line anymore on the shorter and what you're saying is
Speaker 4: no more that appreciation on the shorter duration, I.
Speaker 11: Think you could have it, but you're not going to
Speaker 11: have it compared to what you're seeing and throw that
Speaker 11: longer and the locking in right, because if they start
Speaker 11: to ease, they're easing because the economy is slowing, right,
Speaker 11: in which which we think is going to happen, you'll
Speaker 11: definitely have that long end coming down. And as we know,
Speaker 11: you know, over the past forty years, when the Fed pauses, right,
Speaker 11: interest rates come down, both in the short end and
Speaker 11: in around that tenure. But having that interest rate risk
Speaker 11: now on top of compounding income is great for future
Speaker 11: total return.
Speaker 5: So we had an auction today, strong Treasury auction. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 11: Go ahead, go ahead, No, sorry, no, I was going
Speaker 11: to say, that's really that's really important too, because you know,
Speaker 11: obviously there's a bit of angst with that twenty year
Speaker 11: given what happened with the thirty year, right, I mean,
Speaker 11: with that five basis point out that we saw on
Speaker 11: the thirty year auction, there's a bit of anxiety with
Speaker 11: that twenty year because first of all, the twenty year
Speaker 11: is doesn't have the same sponsorship to begin with, right
Speaker 11: as you would as a ten to thirty combined with
Speaker 11: what happened in the thirty year auction, there was a
Speaker 11: bit of anxiety, but actually it went quite well.
Speaker 4: So okay, real quickly, just about forty seconds. Your recession
Speaker 4: next year? You're saying we don't cut rates until the
Speaker 4: third quarter of next year. Will there be a recession?
Speaker 4: Is that your expectations as part of the view.
Speaker 11: Just quickly, No, it's not. We don't have a recession view.
Speaker 11: We think a slow in growth view. But you know
Speaker 11: the ease will be simply because we think inflation's coming
Speaker 11: down and well and growth will be below trend, but
Speaker 11: not recession.
Speaker 4: All right, interesting stuff, listen, Thank you so much. Leslie Falconio,
Speaker 4: head of taxable fixed income Strategy at UBS Global Wealth Management.
Speaker 4: I meant to ask hers some questions for my cousin's husband, David,
Speaker 4: because we've been talking about that taxable fixed This.
Speaker 1: Is like a theme today. We keep having these extra questions.
Speaker 5: What's about relating back to my family?
Speaker 4: Still, what's interesting We should mention Richmond Fed President Tom
Speaker 4: Barkin saying that progress isn't sufficient enough for the feeder
Speaker 4: to declare victory on inflation.
Speaker 5: So folks ain't.
Speaker 2: Here that we're not there yet.
Speaker 5: Know that we're not there yet, not.
Speaker 4: There O patience, patience, not there, Just saying, just putting
Speaker 4: it out there.
Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: Brothering Marco Journal. How about you let me drive?
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, please go and drive, honey, please?
Speaker 3: How the gravels?
Speaker 5: Let's wat I want to try it.
Speaker 6: It's a good question.
Speaker 3: This is the drive to the clothes.
Speaker 6: Dot com for me.
Speaker 3: I think we'll buy around yold it on on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 5: A nice to talk everybody.
Speaker 4: What we got about seventeen and a half minutes left
Speaker 4: in today's trading session. CONN equity rally underway. It's an
Speaker 4: interesting week. Holiday shortened trading week because of Thanksgiving. There
Speaker 4: is some trading, a shortened day on Friday. We have
Speaker 4: some economic news.
Speaker 1: What a volumes volumes are hired today?
Speaker 5: Well maybe people came in maybe because on.
Speaker 1: The NASDAK, I should say the NASDAK and the DOV
Speaker 1: volumes are higher. S and P volumes are lower lower.
Speaker 4: Okay, So but I think we're on track for is
Speaker 4: it a fourth week of games potentially for the S
Speaker 4: and P five hundred weekly, so pretty significant. All right,
Speaker 4: So let's see what our guest has to say our
Speaker 4: drive to the close. It is certainly on with us.
Speaker 5: Is Greg Calter.
Speaker 4: He's director of research at Carnegie Investment Council. They've got
Speaker 4: about four billion dollars in assets under management. He is
Speaker 4: on Zoom from Cleveland, Ohio, and I just want to
Speaker 4: mention that the company, Carnegie Investment, it's a registered investment
Speaker 4: advisor and they're also a wealth manager.
Speaker 5: Hey, Greg, welcome. How are you.
Speaker 6: I'm doing fine. I hope you are as well.
Speaker 8: We are.
Speaker 4: We're, you know, trying to keep up with the open
Speaker 4: AI story. Is that something that you, guys I don't know,
Speaker 4: think about talk about on a Monday for fun or
Speaker 4: is it about something you talk about from an investment perspective.
Speaker 6: Probably both. Lots of events over the weekend, for sure,
Speaker 6: with Sam Altman and I just heard on your news
Speaker 6: piece there seven hundred are threatening to leave. We're seeing
Speaker 6: Microsoft driving to a new high and video which reports
Speaker 6: this week as well. So definitely it's water cooler chat
Speaker 6: as well as real business in regards to what Microsoft
Speaker 6: is doing by hiring Sam.
Speaker 1: Does anything concern you about this story? We spent a
Speaker 1: good portion of the beginning of our program talking about
Speaker 1: philosophical differences between Sam Altman and others on the board
Speaker 1: of Open Ai with regard to guardrails in terms of
Speaker 1: how you're thinking about the technology as an investor, does
Speaker 1: anything give you pause.
Speaker 6: It's obviously a potentially and probably contentious area. There's some
Speaker 6: who think that AI can go too far and potentially
Speaker 6: ruin the world. Others are looking for the benefits in
Speaker 6: terms of business productivity and so forth. Remains to be
Speaker 6: seen how all this plays out there. There's certainly incredible
Speaker 6: benefits that can be had if handled properly. So I
Speaker 6: think that's the main crux of the issue here is
Speaker 6: how this plays out over time. And really we're talking
Speaker 6: about one year since the CHTGPT came onto the.
Speaker 4: Scene right January, right of this year. That's the big
Speaker 4: investment by by Microsoftware. We're all like, wait, what's going
Speaker 4: on here?
Speaker 8: Hey?
Speaker 4: You said, I feel like, first of all, Greg that
Speaker 4: when there's money to be made, investors are like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I got some concerns, but how do I make money?
Speaker 4: So how do I make money off of this? You
Speaker 4: said that there's real business. It's not only water cooler
Speaker 4: talk today, it's real business. So you know, our investing
Speaker 4: investors calling you guys up and saying, you know, increase
Speaker 4: my position exposure to Microsoft and VideA. Is there a
Speaker 4: private market folks? Are you know who are saying, how
Speaker 4: do I get in on the open AI side of it?
Speaker 5: From a private market? What is the real business that's
Speaker 5: coming off of this for you guys today?
Speaker 6: Very good question, Carol, and we have had a client's
Speaker 6: call and ask us what we're doing in this regard.
Speaker 6: I think a lot of investors have lots of questions
Speaker 6: and are confused on exactly what it is. Our stance
Speaker 6: has been, rather than go with the more speculative companies
Speaker 6: that really don't have revenues yet, we're looking at the
Speaker 6: Microsoft's of the world, and Amazon and Nvidia, the companies
Speaker 6: that make the chips and the data centers, so Eaten
Speaker 6: providing the electricity and the electrical power into that area.
Speaker 6: Those are the ways we're playing this. The more established companies.
Speaker 1: I want to shift gears a little bit and and
Speaker 1: sort of zoom out. Well, Carlly, you want to do well?
Speaker 5: You said eat and providing the power, meaning what wait,
Speaker 5: help me here.
Speaker 6: Sure. Eaton is a Cleveland company actually not too far
Speaker 6: from us right here. They are huge into the electrical business,
Speaker 6: so everything from soup to nuts in terms of regulators
Speaker 6: and their backlog is huge and it's out into multi
Speaker 6: years now. So Eaton's products are needed for these data centers.
Speaker 6: The data centers are what are crunching all this data.
Speaker 6: AI is probably tenfold at least fivefold increase over what
Speaker 6: we have currently, So Eaton is a huge player, huge
Speaker 6: beneficiary of that. As long as this trend continues.
Speaker 4: It is a ninety billion dollar market cap. You're right,
Speaker 4: we don't necessarily talk about it day to day, and
Speaker 4: it is up about.
Speaker 5: Forty five percent this year.
Speaker 4: This speaks to It's like I feel like when it
Speaker 4: was either content and folks are like, I don't care
Speaker 4: who creates the content. I want to be the pipe
Speaker 4: that gets it into everybody's home. And that's what it
Speaker 4: sounds to me like right now. Artificial intelligence, whether we
Speaker 4: have problems with it or concerns about it, probably here
Speaker 4: to stay. I don't kind of necessarily know who's going
Speaker 4: to be leading with it, but if I can be
Speaker 4: the backbone or the infrastructure, I'm in it.
Speaker 1: Right It's the so called picks and shovels approach, the
Speaker 1: gold rush, or the Levi's jeans approach. Right, Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's talk more of those, Greg, what else do you
Speaker 1: have for us? You've got Eton that Carol just mentioned
Speaker 1: that you just mentioned. Then there are the big players
Speaker 1: like Microsoft, like Amazon, like Nvidia. Who else is out
Speaker 1: there that could be that it is on your radar.
Speaker 6: Sure, there's some other companies that I think investors wouldn't
Speaker 6: really think of, but a Center ACN is the symbol
Speaker 6: there in terms of the consulting. All these companies want
Speaker 6: to deploy AI, but how do they do it? What's
Speaker 6: the best way? A Century is a huge consultant and
Speaker 6: they will be one area we think will benefit from that.
Speaker 1: Funny you say that Center're hitting a fifty two week
Speaker 1: high today. Shares up so far this year twenty four percent.
Speaker 5: Carol, that's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 4: It's funny, you know, Greg, Very early on in my career,
Speaker 4: it was like the beginning of the mutual fund industry.
Speaker 4: And that's how we would play it with our host.
Speaker 4: It's like something would happen in the news world and
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, so how do you buy it? And
Speaker 4: I always throughout this example, it was like, unfortunately, there
Speaker 4: could be a hurricane or devastation. It'd be like, Okay,
Speaker 4: people are going to be buying the cement. You know,
Speaker 4: companies we think about we're in wartime, the defense companies
Speaker 4: right like you look at them right now, and I
Speaker 4: feel like, is that that is kind of the smart
Speaker 4: way to be looking at this news in this at
Speaker 4: this particular time. In terms of open AI.
Speaker 6: No question. I mean here's another one. Striker is going
Speaker 6: to be using AI in the future of its implants,
Speaker 6: and you know from personal experience, I'll be having a
Speaker 6: hip replacement in ten days. You know, there will be
Speaker 6: using the Maco robot. Striker is at the cusp of
Speaker 6: all kinds of innovation and they'll they will be deploying
Speaker 6: AI in that space as well. So these are all
Speaker 6: to make these procedures easier, faster, faster recovery. I mean,
Speaker 6: that's huge for so who's undergoing that type of procedure.
Speaker 4: Really smart way to look at this story. Can't tell
Speaker 4: you how much we appreciate it. Greg Halter, director of
Speaker 4: Research at Carnegie Investment Council. We mentioned four billion in
Speaker 4: assets under management. Happy Thanksgiving, Greg, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so good luck on the hip surgery coming
Speaker 1: up ten days away. I hope you have a RESTful
Speaker 1: time in your back on your feet and back with
Speaker 1: us to very soon.
Speaker 5: Greg appreciate it absolutely well. Wishes to him in that journey.
Speaker 7: All right.
Speaker 4: You are listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week Carol Master,
Speaker 4: Tim Stanovic, and this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast of a little
Speaker 3: on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcast.
Speaker 3: Listen live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on
Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every
Speaker 3: weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Journal alone.