1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here as well, and this is stuff 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 2: you should know. So well, it's get started talking about 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 2: some stuff that you should know. And I guess we 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: should do our semi annual explanation Chuck that the title 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: of our podcast is never intended to make you feel 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: bad because you don't know something. It's not that we 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: think you should know this already. We're saying we find 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: this really interesting and we want to share it with you. 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: Hence we want you to know about it. You should 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: know about this because it's interesting and we want to 13 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: tell you about it, not that you should already know 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: about it. 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the second one. We just did that listener 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: to mail like two weeks ago. 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: I think we should do it every week. I'm going 18 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: to start every podcast with that from now on. 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a great way to retain listeners, I think 20 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: for sure. 21 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: Man, you should see the match I'm drinking right now. 22 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: It's like mash mash brown green. It's disgusting. I don't 23 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: know what's wrong with it, but I got a drink 24 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 2: in any way. 25 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: Oh is it not taste good either? 26 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: Not really, it's pretty bitter. 27 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: Maybe that much is turned bro, But does. 28 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: It it was powder? Does maucha turn? Because if so, 29 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: I'm drinking turn macha for sure. 30 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: All right, well we'll do a short stuff can of 31 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: powder turn. But no, we're not going to do that 32 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: today because we're talking about the Kowloon Walled City in 33 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, which is the most well, at one time 34 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: was the most densely populated place on planet Earth. 35 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 3: And just to give you if you've. 36 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: Ever been to New York City, if you've ever traveled 37 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: to the East Village, yeah, one of my favorite villages. 38 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: That's where I got engaged. 39 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, right there at the museum. Which museum, not the 40 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: Waitty That is the most and it doesn't feel like 41 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: it when you're there. But the East Village is the 42 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: most densely neighborhood in New York City and they have 43 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: about forty three thousand people living in the East Village. 44 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: The Kowloon Walled City is about the size of the 45 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: East Village geographically, but there are one point yeah, that's 46 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: why they use the East Village and all the comps. 47 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: One point two five million people living there as opposed 48 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: to forty three thousand. 49 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: Okay, yes, exactly, but there were really only thirty three 50 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 2: thousand people. But if you spread it all out over 51 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: a square kilometer, you would have that many people to 52 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: equal that density. 53 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: Right, That's right. 54 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: So that's I wanted to make sure to take that 55 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: and just screw it up. The reason I did this 56 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: is because it's not the same size. Kowloon Walld City 57 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: is like a fraction of the size of the square kilometer. 58 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think like a little over three football fields. 59 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 2: I saw that. I also saw four. I also saw 60 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: four rugby fields or large soccer pitches. So all of 61 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: those put together. 62 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 63 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 2: Imagine twenty three thousand people standing on there like they'd 64 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: literally have to be standing on one an other shoulders. 65 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: Who knows how many people deep it would be. And 66 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 2: so this incredibly compact area of a few football fields 67 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: or rugby or soccer pitches held buildings right up against 68 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: each other that went all the way up to fourteen 69 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: stories tall. And if you went into this place, you 70 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: would be like, I, I this is like nowhere I've 71 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: ever been in the world. And you would be right 72 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: because there was nowhere in the world like the Kowloon 73 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: Walled City from about nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety ish. 74 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, like, if you have a if you have a 75 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: fairly smallish lot that your house is on, let's say, 76 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: have a single family house and it's on like maybe 77 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: a half an acre. 78 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 3: If you're lucky, like you're doing pretty great, that's a 79 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: great life. 80 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a little more than six and a 81 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: half acres and there were five hundred buildings packed in there. 82 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: That nuts. Even with those mind blowing stats, it's like, 83 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: go and look, there's a very famous photograph from i 84 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: think a nineteen eighty nine or nineteen ninety National Geographic 85 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: overhead that just gets it all across perfectly. You just 86 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: look at it and you're like, that doesn't even look 87 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: like a village or a city. It looks like a 88 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: single thing. And a lot of people have made that 89 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: point that these buildings were so close together, they were 90 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: so interconnected, people just built haphazard bridges between one building 91 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: and another so they didn't have to go down fourteen 92 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 2: stories and then back up that it essentially created one 93 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: single organism. That that's kind of how Kowloon Walled City 94 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: came to be seen when it reached its fully developed peak. 95 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it had to be the inspiration behind the Living 96 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: Quarters and Ready Player One if you've ever seen that 97 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: movie or read the book. When I saw pictures of 98 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: kowloon Wald City for the first time, I was like, Oh, 99 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: looks like Ready Player One, really, except it was real. 100 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: This was an actual, real place. So we encourage you, 101 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: at some point when it's safe to do so, to 102 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: look it up because the pictures worth a thousand words 103 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: and we spent probably a couple of thousand trying to 104 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: describe it. 105 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: The thing that really rings home, I guess to me, okay, 106 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: comparing it to Blade Runner, like especially in Blade Runner 107 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: when Harrison Ford is eating noodles and Edward James almost 108 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: comes up to take them away, Uh huh, Like just 109 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: that kind of look like the fluorescent light, everything's packed together, 110 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: is people everywhere, Like that's what it looked like. 111 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: Like. 112 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: There's no way that the designers of Blade Runner did 113 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 2: not were not inspired by kowloon Wald City. I refuse 114 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: to believe it. 115 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: Well, and as we'll see, or I guess I could 116 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: say it now. There have been lots of video games 117 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: and movies that were based either on or very much 118 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: patterned after this look one of the black Ops games. 119 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: This movie about a straight cat or sorry video game 120 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: about a straight cat. That maybe a movie at some point, 121 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: but yeah, I think it was. This is all to 122 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: say it was densely packed. Have we gotten that across? 123 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: What was that movie that I told you to watch 124 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: about the cat? The animated movie about the cat, And 125 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: then you said, oh, I already saw it in theaters. 126 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: Was it called Flow? 127 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: I think that was Flow. That was so so great. 128 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: That was such a good movie. I encourage everybody to 129 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: go watch it. It's like almost sixteen or eight bit 130 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: graphic looking. It's very bit mapped on purpose, and it 131 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: really does a great job of making it otherworldly. 132 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it won the Oscar and it looks that way 133 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: because a dude made it in his apartment. 134 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: Oh man, that makes it even better. That is such 135 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: an amazing movie. 136 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really great. 137 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: The other movie that sticks out for me when I 138 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: think of Kowloon Walld City is the merchant Ivory movie Howard's. 139 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: End Right or Far and Away with Nicole Kidman right 140 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: Tom Cruse. 141 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: That one I saw that in the theater for some reason, 142 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: really that's weird. I also saw eyes I'd shut in 143 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: the theater and I knew all about it going into it, 144 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: and so it was my birthday, so I made my 145 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: whole family go watch it. 146 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: Uh that's that very fun end of that story. Yeah, 147 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: all right. 148 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: So we need to go back in history, though, if 149 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: we want to talk about how this city came to be, 150 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: and in order to do that, we need to go 151 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: back to the First Opium War, which was a few 152 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: years between eighteen thirty nine and forty two where there 153 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: was a trade dispute between Imperial China and Britain, where 154 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: in Britain was like, hey, we loves shipping in this 155 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: opium from India to your addicted citizens, and China was like, no, 156 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: we like selling them opium ourselves, and. 157 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: So let's go to war over that. 158 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: I think actually China was executing addicts in the street. 159 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: They were on a huge campaign to eradicate opium addiction 160 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: from their population, and Britain was like, uh, uh, we're 161 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: going to keep them addicted because we're making tons of 162 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: cash off of that, oh for sure. 163 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: And this is after China had made a ton of 164 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: money shipping tea, so there were trade relations already, you know, 165 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: sort of ensconced. 166 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Britain couldn't get enough of China's tea. But 167 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: China was like, we don't really want too much of 168 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: your stuff, except our population wants the opium you're smuggling in. 169 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: So imagine if like the war as cartel, like Mexico 170 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: is like, nope, we don't want you you supplying our 171 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: population with drugs, and the Wars Cartel's like, oh yeah, 172 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: we're going to war with you and we're gonna win. 173 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: And now we have a treaty saying that we can 174 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: sell your population drugs and you can't do anything about it. 175 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: That was essentially the First Opium War. Yeah, and there 176 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: was even a second Opium War, the sequel. 177 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: That's right. 178 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: But another important thing come out of the First Opium War, 179 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: which was China was forced to seed some land on 180 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, which you know wasn't a big bustling place 181 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: at that point, not much of anything at that point, 182 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: And in order to sort of you know, be close 183 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: to them and sort of keep an eye on what's 184 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: going over there, the Qing dynasty said, all right, we 185 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: have a military installation just across the water from Hong 186 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: Kong on the Kowloon Peninsula and over the Kowloon Bay, 187 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: and let's build a big wall there and just like 188 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: fortify this little military installation. So they built a wall 189 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: fifteen feet thick, thirteen feet high. It housed about one 190 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty soldiers, and that's where the name Kowloon 191 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: Walled City came from from that wall. 192 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and today's modern Hong Kong is populated mostly on 193 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: the Kowloon Peninsula, but at the time it was the 194 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 2: opposite Hong Kong Island was the population and this Kowloon 195 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: place was just a little Nowhere's Ville essentially, And so 196 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: China was like, yeah, we're going to keep this, We're 197 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: going to keep it. An eye on the Brits like this. 198 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: And after, I guess the Second Opium War led to 199 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: the Second Convention of Peking where both the First Opium 200 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: War and the second one found China just giving into 201 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: tons of demands from the Brits, from the Americans, from 202 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: I think the wrench who were all like, you have 203 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 2: to open your market's dust because we want money from 204 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 2: you guys. And one of the things that came out 205 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: of it was the very famous ninety nine year lease 206 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: that the Brits had on Hong Kong from China, which 207 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: is why the UK administered Hong Kong for almost one 208 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: hundred years essentially throughout the twentieth century. 209 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the other thing landwise that came out of 210 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: that Second Opium War was they seated all of Hong 211 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: Kong Island, the entire Kowloon Peninsula to the Britz. But 212 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: keep in mind, they still have this walled city kind 213 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: of right there, you know, nearest to the coast, within 214 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: that territory. And so there was a little, I guess, 215 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: a little loophole that they I don't know if they 216 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: snuck it in there, but it was, you know, clearly written, 217 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: but there was a clause in there basically that said 218 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: it's so confusing, I'm not even going to read it. 219 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: But the result was this weird, small walled city within 220 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: this territory that Britain now controls was to stay there 221 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: and to stay that way. 222 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 2: And to stay Chinese territory. So this little tiny, six acre, 223 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: three rugby pitch patch of land would be Chinese sovereign 224 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: land in this British territory. Essentially, is what just got 225 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 2: set up from the eighteen ninety eight Treaty. 226 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: All right, so it's a weird situation, hmm. But that's 227 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: what they're left with. Right after the British takeover there, 228 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: some Christian missionaries went in. It started to get populated. 229 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: The walled city did they built a church, Some pig 230 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: farmers came in. They started squatting. People started squatting because, 231 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: you know, it was protected by this great you know, 232 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, not the great wall. 233 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: A great wall that was. 234 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: When we were in Belize on vacation, we went up 235 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: a Rio Grand. Emily kept saying, you go up the 236 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: Rio grand to get to the ocean, and I was like, 237 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: I don't think it's the Rio grand And it was 238 00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: Rio Grande. 239 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 3: So the joke for the rest of the trip was 240 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 3: we're going up a Rio Grand. 241 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: Very cute. 242 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 3: So there was a great wall, so that attracted squatters. 243 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 2: It did, and one of the reasons why is because 244 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: there was this idea that, okay, this is Chinese territory. 245 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: So that was already kind of a thought in people's 246 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 2: head that there weren't enough people there in this Christian 247 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 2: missionary church kind of we're almost keeping an eye on 248 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: things as far as the Brits administering Hong Kong were concerned, 249 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 2: so they weren't paying much attention to it. And then 250 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: World War II came along and Japan occupied big swaths 251 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 2: of China, as we talked about in our Unit seven 252 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: thirty one episode, and one of those swaths was the peninsula, 253 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 2: the Kowloon Peninsula, and they tore down those thick, thick 254 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: granite walls and they used it to build out Kai 255 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: Tak Airport. And I think it was already there was 256 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: kind of like an airfield or laying strip, and they 257 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: turned it into like an actual airport. And for many, 258 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: many years, for decades, Kai Tak Airport was the airport 259 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: that you flew into when you flew to Hong Kong. 260 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's uh, you know, they needed building. I 261 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: love repurposing building materials. Sure, so when I heard that part, 262 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: I was like, that's great. They don't need that wall 263 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: there anyway, because it looks like it had a wall 264 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: build around it when you. 265 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: Looked at it, right, you know. That was kind of 266 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 3: the funny thing. 267 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is ironic because it looks like they populated 268 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: that city with a wall and then took the wall down. Yeah, 269 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: but it was just so I mean, everyone knew how 270 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: far out you could build, so it just kind of 271 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: ended up looking that way. 272 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 2: Right. It was, it was, and it was very densely. 273 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 3: Populated, that's what I've heard. 274 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 2: So after World War Two a couple of things happened 275 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: geopolitically that kind of gave rise to the Kowloon Walled City. 276 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: The name stuck, even though it didn't have the walls. Yeah, 277 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: but a lot of the people who were refugees during 278 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: the war made their way down to the Kowloon Peninsula 279 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: and they were like, we're not Brits, We're Chinese, so 280 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: we're gonna start squatting here. And the Brits were like, no, 281 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: you know you're not squatting here. This is not Chinese, 282 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: it's ours. It's part of Hong Kong. We basically own 283 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: Hong Kong right now, so get out. And they evicted 284 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: all the squatters in nineteen forty eight. By this time 285 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: it had been there were like thousands of them, so 286 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: it was a really big deal. And then the squatters 287 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: just came back next week. 288 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: That's right, they came back. The next week. 289 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: They tried to kick them out again, and there was 290 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: a riot this time, and I feel like, that's a 291 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: pretty good time for our first break. Okay, sure, all right, 292 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. All right, So we're back Cawloon 293 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: Walled city without the wall. Yeah, is being populated. They're 294 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: getting kicked out, they keep coming back. There was a 295 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: Chinese Civil war following World War Two, so that was 296 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: one reason that people, you know, between the communists and 297 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: the Nationalist Party, and that was one reason people were starting, 298 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: you know, to get the. 299 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 3: Heck out of you know, in there, I guess, yeah. 300 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: And in nineteen forty nine, you know, the communist one 301 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: they declared the People's Republic of China, and so that's 302 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: when in the nineteen fifties things really kicked off with 303 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: refugees trying to get in there and build up up up. 304 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you were a refugee from China, that 305 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: meant you were probably a nationalist or at the very 306 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: least weren't a communist, and you just needed to get 307 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: out of there. But you were, as far as you 308 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: were concerned, better off living on this tiny patch of 309 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: Chinese land because you still consider yourself a Chinese national. 310 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: Then you were trying to assimilate into this British administered 311 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: polony that was really Chinese, but the Brits didn't treat 312 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: it like that, right, And so these people, these refugees 313 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: became like this, they almost like freedom fighters. And even 314 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: the CCP, the Chinese Communist government, they would they were 315 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: they were promoting them. They would give them supplies. Sometimes 316 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: they would give them food. Sometimes they would send emissaries 317 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: down that would talk them up and be like, keep 318 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: fighting the good fight. You know, we've got your back. 319 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: And essentially, anytime the Brits tried to make a move 320 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: on these residents of Kowloon Walled City, China would step 321 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: in and be like, ah, that is Chinese territory. So 322 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: no matter what these people did, the BRIT's hands were tied. 323 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 2: And the whole reason why was not that China cared 324 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: about them, but it was a thorn in Great britain side. 325 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: There was this crazy, weird area that they did not 326 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: have control over in the middle of this colony that 327 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: they had taken from China, and China took every opportunity 328 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: to basically twist that thorn in their side, and they 329 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: used every every time that the people of Kowloon were 330 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: put upon as a chance to step in and flex 331 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: their whatever authority they did have in the area. Still. 332 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, So as a result of all this, the Brits 333 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: were like, I don't even care anymore, Like this. 334 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 3: Is such a pain. In the fifties and sixties, they. 335 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: Took a real hands off approach and just kind of 336 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: let what happened there happen there, and that led to 337 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: a real influx of people and then that housing boom 338 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: they didn't have. It looks like the only building code 339 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: they have was you can't build anything over fourteen stories 340 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: tall because it's right there next to the airport and 341 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: you don't want to get a wing through your living 342 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: room one day. So that was the only building code around, 343 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 1: certainly the only one honored, because it was kind of 344 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: anything goes inside there. And what we ended up with, 345 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned an organic structure. It was ended 346 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: up called by architects on organic megastructure, sure, because these 347 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: buildings would sink down into their founday and start to tip, 348 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: but they would tip over into the next one, and 349 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: that one was tipping toward it. So they ended up 350 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: calling like lovers buildings because at the top they were 351 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: all kind of angled in and touching one another, and 352 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: it's sort of sweet if you. 353 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 3: Think about it, it is. 354 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 2: It is kind of sweet. It was also at the 355 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: same time, weirdly, architects in like the fifties and sixties 356 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: there was kind of like an avant garde school of 357 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: thought about just incredibly dense like community building and this 358 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 2: is essentially a natural experiment. And it kind of showed 359 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: that a lot of those theories held up kind of 360 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: like the buildings held one another up, that people could 361 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 2: just build out what they needed in ways that they 362 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: needed in that spaces that were livable without having to 363 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: be you know, spread out, without having to have government 364 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: oversight and all that kind of stuff. Too. Those buildings, 365 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 2: especially when they were lovers buildings pressed up against one another, 366 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: they became so dense that sunlight would not penetrate the 367 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 2: street level in a lot of cases. In most cases actually, 368 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: like one of the premiums for a flat in the 369 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 2: Kowloon Walld City was one that was outward facing or 370 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 2: faced on the internal courtyard because they had sun exposure. 371 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: Most of the apartments, businesses, dwellings, streets alleys in klouon 372 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: Wald City were not exposed to sunlight at any point 373 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: in the day. 374 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that you sent in this pretty good little YouTube. 375 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: It was like fifteen twenty minutes long about this walled 376 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: city that breaks it down. And at one point I 377 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: paused it because they had I was wondering what these 378 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: things cost. And I don't know what year this was 379 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: that they gave us these numbers from. But a two 380 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty square foot flat cost twenty eight thousand 381 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: American dollars. And if you're thinking, all right, that two 382 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty twenty eight thousand, that kind of makes sense. 383 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 3: But that was without sunlight. 384 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: I think the exterior facing four hundred and fifty square 385 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: foot flat was sixty thousand dollars. 386 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that was in the sixties or 387 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: seventies from a paper I saw, okay, But still one 388 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: of the things I saw is that a reason that 389 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: this was attractive to a lot of people, because over 390 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 2: time the place didn't just attract Chinese nationalists and refugees 391 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 2: from China. It attracted people who are like, oh, there's 392 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 2: these really cheap living in here. You could get a 393 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 2: flat that was about double the square footage of a 394 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 2: like a government flat, like a council flat, public housing essentially, 395 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 2: you'd call it, and it had a kitchen and a bathroom, 396 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 2: and those were not guaranteed in the public housing flats 397 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: that you would maybe even pay the same or more for. 398 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 2: So there was like real incentive to move into this 399 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 2: place if you didn't care about living cheek to jowl 400 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: with your neighbors amid trash and abandoned appliances and all 401 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: sorts of other crazy stuff. 402 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, there were some benefits though. 403 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: If you lived in the Koloun walled city, you didn't 404 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: pay an electric bill almost certainly because you probably just 405 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: like literally ran the electric yourself from the public utilities. 406 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: There was all manner of plumbing and wiring routed from 407 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: the outside coming in into the walled city, so these 408 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: buildings were wrapped in water pipes and sewage lines and 409 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: conduit running electricity. If you were a business, you weren't 410 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: paying any kind of business taxes, so that was a 411 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: big plus. But you didn't have stuff like trash pickup, 412 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: and you had to deal with things like heroin dealers 413 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: and brothels and the Triad gang kind of running the show, 414 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: which you know, it was mostly bad, but they also 415 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: did some things to keep the place up. 416 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, A good example that I saw of what life 417 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: was like in this that made it like people just 418 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: got used to this stuff and it was every day, 419 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: was that you would when you were walking on street level, 420 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 2: you would carry an umbrella because of those exposed pipes, 421 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 2: it would be leaking on you. But some of those 422 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 2: pipes were also sewage pipes, so those would be dripping 423 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: and leaking too. Because there was no code that was 424 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 2: being followed. It was like, I need a sewage outlet 425 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 2: coming out of my house here, so I'm just going 426 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 2: to run this pipe right here, and that's that some 427 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: people just walked around with umbrellas on street level. Another 428 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: one that I saw that people just got used to 429 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 2: is that a lot of the street level areas were tunnels. 430 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: And the reason that they were tunnels is because overhead 431 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 2: there was a mesh net that had been laid between 432 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 2: buildings to catch the trash that people just threw out 433 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 2: of their windows. And the reason that they put the 434 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: mesh netting was because if they didn't, then you wouldn't 435 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: be able to get into the ground floor of any 436 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: of the buildings because they would be so covered up 437 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: with trash. And so these impromptu alleys developed as trash 438 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 2: built overhead and the walls of the first floor of 439 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 2: these buildings were exposed on either side. People just got 440 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 2: used to this, like this was just what life was 441 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 2: like in Kowloon, and in some ways it wasn't that 442 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 2: much war if at all. Then some of the other 443 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: poverty stricken areas of Hong Kong at the time. 444 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like if you're wondering, like why did people even 445 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: live there or stay there, it's for exactly that reason. 446 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 3: You know. 447 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't so different from other poor places that it 448 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: would have been a big, like life improvement to move 449 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: and this was their home. It may look kind of 450 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: kind of crazy from the outside, but people really made 451 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: a life there. There were hundreds of legit businesses that 452 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: operated there. There there were machine shops. There were a 453 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: lot of machine shops as far as industry goes in 454 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: metal fabrication, and then food was a big one. There 455 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: were lots of food factories. And in that documentary they said, 456 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, there was always a feeling that like some 457 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: of the food that was made there was in on 458 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: the plates and in the bowls of some really high 459 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: class restaurants surrounding them. 460 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, the fishballs, so they were unregulated fishballs made in 461 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: highly unsanitary conditions that just made it out of the 462 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 2: Kowlouon Walled City. Because that's another thing too. A lot 463 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: of people look at this from the outside and think 464 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: like this is completely isolated from the rest of Hong Kong. 465 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely untrue. Those businesses were exporting out of the city 466 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: into the rest of Hong Kong. People were coming from 467 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: outside of the city into the city for things like 468 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 2: dentists and doctors who were all unlicensed, unregulated, which at 469 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: first blush, You're just like, oh my god, why would 470 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 2: you go to an unlicensed dentist. Well, they were already 471 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: trained and licensed in China, but when they went to 472 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: Hong Kong, those credentials didn't transfer over, and so rather 473 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: than pay and become a licensed dentist in Hong Kong 474 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: under British rule, they just set up in Kowloon Walled 475 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: City and set up practice without needing a license. 476 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was cheaper, way cheaper. There were schools. 477 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: If you're like, you know, did d even function as 478 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,479 Speaker 1: like a regular society, they actually, for sure did. There 479 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: were kindergartens, there were schools. A lot of times it 480 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: was like the Salvation Army or somebody kind of running 481 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: these things. If you were like, what about a playground 482 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: or something like that, some of these rooftops had you know, 483 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: playground equipment where kids could go. Pigeon racing was a 484 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: big thing, so there were gardens on the roofs, the 485 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: ones that didn't have trash on them, and they were 486 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: also keeping these racing pigeons up there. 487 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: And you know, there was actually some order. 488 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like you might picture like constant chaos 489 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: or something like that. It was more like something you 490 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: see out a blade Runner, just a really densely populated 491 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: city like actually functioning. They had volunteer fire brigades. They 492 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: did you know, they didn't have municipal trash collection, and 493 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: there was trash all over the place, but they tried, 494 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, they had volunteer trash collection teams, they had 495 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: night watch teams. There was a single mail delivery person 496 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: delivering to the entire city. So they were functioning. 497 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was the officially the neighborhood Welfare Association. If 498 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 2: you bought or sold a flat, the neighborhood Welfare Association 499 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: would witness it, so it was very much legal. And 500 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 2: then the triads you mentioned, they were running and they 501 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 2: were manufacturing and selling heroin out of the city. They 502 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: were running protection rackets and brothels and child prostitutes and 503 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: all sorts of terrible stuff. And then simultaneously they were 504 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 2: also providing the law and order that did exist. Like 505 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: it was not just chaotic anarchy. It was anarchic in 506 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 2: the sense of like government regulation and oversight, like you know, 507 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: building codes and stuff. But it's not like you just 508 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: walked over your neighbor's house and killed them and took 509 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: their stuff and that was that. Like, there was law 510 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: and order, and it was the rule of the triads 511 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 2: who essentially kept people from I guess descending into chaos. 512 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 2: If that was even a possibility. 513 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: Well, they didn't want It's kind of the rule of 514 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: the street. They didn't want the real authorities coming in there. 515 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: And if it got so bad that would eventually happen, 516 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: it was sure. I mean, I remember when my friend 517 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: bought his first house in Atlanta in the mid nineties 518 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: in a pretty rough neighborhood, Like he got his house 519 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: broken into and got some stuff stolen, and the guy 520 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: that was the big like drug dealer dude in the 521 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: neighborhood brought his stuff back, Oh wow, And like knocked 522 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: on his door and said, here's your guitar, here's your amp, 523 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: here's your stuff, and he was like, you know, I 524 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: think the unspoken thing was like he didn't want the 525 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: cops in there. Sure, so he's trying to keep his 526 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: guys from doing dumb stuff like that to attract attention. 527 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: Okay, So yeah, perfect analogy. That's exactly what the triads 528 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 2: were doing in there. And so yeah, if you just 529 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: you know, if you wanted to do Heroin or something, 530 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: I think it was largely smoked, you would come from 531 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 2: outside Kloum Wall City. Maybe if you liked Heroin so much, 532 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 2: you'd stick around and move there. But at the same time, 533 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: if you were just some elderly person looking for a 534 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 2: cheap place to stay that was willing to live in 535 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: an incredibly dense place like there was, there was room 536 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 2: for you there too. So it was a really I 537 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 2: saw that it was vilified and romanticized, and it really 538 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: shouldn't be either. Neither of those should be done to it. 539 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: It was just like every other place, multiple shades of gray. 540 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: It's just the literally the sure, It's just that the 541 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 2: extremes on either side are so fascinating, especially when they 542 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 2: they the whole spectrum is viewed that that that's what 543 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: made Cawloon City so remarkable. 544 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I think that's a great time for 545 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: a second break, and we're going to talk about what 546 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: happened in Calvin City right after this. 547 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: Uh Chuck, we're back. And I just want to say, 548 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 2: before I forget again, ninety nine percent Invisible of course 549 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: did an amazing episode. Oh of course they did on 550 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: this back in twenty twelve. 551 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: So great Roman Mars. 552 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could be like, oh, that's not what 553 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: Josh and Chuck so they said something different. Just go 554 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: with Roman Mars interpretation. 555 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 556 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: I just weirdly texted Roman the other day or yesterday 557 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: for the first time in a long long time. 558 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: Like weirdly you said something weird. 559 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: No, just weird that you brought him up. That's like 560 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: twice that he's been mentioned in my life twice in 561 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: a couple of days and it had been a while 562 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: and he didn't text me back yet, because come on, Roman. 563 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: Seriously, Roman, get your act together. So yeah, so, Kylleen, 564 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: Wild City, it's going along. Most of the stuff we've 565 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: just talked about, the fourteen story buildings, lovers buildings, pressed 566 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 2: up against one another, the trash tunnels, all that stuff 567 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: is really taking place from about nineteen seventy to say, 568 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety ninety two. Okay, that's like the peak of 569 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: the notoriety and infamy and the just the way that 570 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: people think of Kowloon Wald City. It was basically between 571 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 2: those decades, right and even before then, even before there 572 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: were fourteen story buildings astonishingly going up in this in 573 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: the city. The Brits were like, we really hate that 574 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: Kowloon Wald City is sitting there. It's just like a 575 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: thumb in our eye that the Chinese just keep rubbing 576 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: over and over again. We really want to get rid 577 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 2: of it. But their their hands were tied, essentially. Despite that, 578 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: they tried a bunch of different ideas to try to 579 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 2: get people out of kowloon Wald City so they could 580 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 2: tear it down. 581 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: It was a toe in their tea. 582 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: Perfect man, you are on fire today. 583 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 3: I mean, can you imagine anything worse? 584 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: A foot in your Brunswick stew right? 585 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, one and everything good. Let's call back, 586 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: all right, So if you don't know what that is, 587 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: everybody that it's gonna be a little east egg for you. 588 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: One day and deepen the stuff. You should know archives, 589 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: deepen a pot of Brunswicks. Two. 590 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 3: All right. 591 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty two, the Brits started or I'm sorry, 592 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: they completed construction on a high rise public housing complex 593 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: called the Tung Tao Estate, and they're. 594 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 3: Like, all right, everybody, look what we built for you. 595 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: Residents of Kowlouon Wald City, get out of there, come 596 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: on over here, we want to resettle to you. 597 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,239 Speaker 3: This is much nicer. Authorities showed up. 598 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: They had notices that they posted and handed people and 599 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: they were met with the Kowloon Wald City Anti Demolition 600 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: and Anti Removal Committee, who said, no, thanks, we want 601 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: to stay here. 602 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so they said, you know what, we're going 603 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: to tell China on you, essentially, and China stepped in 604 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: and was like, no, guys, you're not going to do that. 605 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: These people have a right to live here. This is 606 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: quote a gross violation of China's sovereignty and everybody should 607 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: should protest than strike, and they did, and the cops 608 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: came in and there were clashes, and it became essentially 609 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: an international scandal that the Brits were picking on these 610 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: poor people who were squatting in this poor area in 611 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 2: a colony the Brits were administering. It was not a 612 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: very good look. So the Brits backed off, and it 613 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: was another chance for China to be like, hah ha, 614 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 2: we are really using Kowloon Walled City to the maximum effect. 615 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: So the Brits, who still wanted to tear this down, 616 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: they went back to the drawing board. 617 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 3: That's right. 618 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: But what they knew they had was this ninety nine 619 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: year lease. Yeah, sign in eighteen ninety eight, so you 620 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: do the math. Nineteen ninety seven was that year on 621 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: the horizon, just sort of sitting out there. 622 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: I would have said ninety eight. 623 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: And then the Brits they knew the state was coming. 624 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: China knew this date was coming, and they were like, 625 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: all right do China was like we've been making him 626 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: and hawing about the thing being aeign like we really 627 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: want this back in nineteen ninety seven? 628 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 3: Do we want to inherit this thing? 629 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: And on the brit side they were like, aha, like 630 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: we know what they're thinking over there. They don't want 631 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: really inherit this thing either. Yeah, So they started some 632 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: sort of more legitimate like agreeing with one another as 633 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: far as talks go as early as like nineteen eighty six, 634 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: when China was like, maybe we should actually talk this 635 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: over now. 636 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And these were secret talks, right, So for China, 637 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: the city had outlived its political usefulness and I guess 638 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: just as a I mean, they wanted to tear it 639 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 2: down so badly that the Brits were willing to do 640 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: this for China shortly before the handover in nineteen ninety seven. 641 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: And so what they came up with is that residents 642 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 2: would be offered financial compensation. Pretty good compensation too. I 643 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 2: think about three hundred thousand dollars for a flat that 644 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 2: again they'd spent maybe thirty thousand dollars on twenty years 645 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: before they would be moved into a high rise public 646 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 2: housing unit. They're basically all going to be resettled into 647 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: a nicer life, graddess with a little spending money. 648 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 3: That's right. 649 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: So finally, on January fourteenth, nineteen eighty seven, they got 650 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty staff members from the Clearance in 651 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: squatter Control from Hong Kong and they came down to 652 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: Kowloon City and they were like, hey, we need to 653 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: get a we need to know how many people are here. 654 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: We need to know how many people are resettling, So 655 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: we need an actual census, like, no one has a clue. 656 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: We've been guessing how many people live here based on 657 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: ordinary numbers, and this is an ordinary place. So they 658 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: cordoned off all eighty three entrances and exits to the city, 659 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: went door to door and did a census and counted 660 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: people up and said, hey, this is the plan moving forward. 661 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: You're going to be resettled. And there wasn't a riot 662 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: this time. They were still thinking like, oh, yeah, we're 663 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: going to tell China on you, because they didn't know 664 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: those secret talks had been going on. This time it 665 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: was different, and the Chinese Foreign Ministry finally stepped up 666 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: and in a formal statement said, in so many words, yeah, 667 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: the time has come and we're giving this over to 668 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: the British. They're going to rid this place of his residences. 669 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: And it was nice while it lasted. 670 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that was nineteen eighty seven, you said. It 671 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: wasn't until ninety four that Kowloon Walled City was finally 672 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 2: fully demolished, and it wasn't until two years before that 673 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: that the last resident was finally evicted. There was a 674 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: few there were a few holdouts. A lot of people 675 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 2: were like, yeah, i'll take three hundred grand in a 676 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 2: new place to live. There were some holdouts because I 677 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: don't I probably people have guessed this, but we didn't 678 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 2: say it overtly. There there was a tremendous amount of 679 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: pride among people living in Kowloon Walled City. They did 680 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: their home, yes, and it was a very special and 681 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 2: unique home, and they were not going to find that 682 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: anywhere else on earth, and they knew it. And so 683 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 2: a lot of them were holdouts for a very long 684 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:01,879 Speaker 2: time and did not want to go. 685 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I imagine it attracted just like the initial 686 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 1: attraction in the fifties and sixties, people that didn't want 687 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: to be under like the thumb of a government was 688 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: still sort of a sentiment there. Yeah, they didn't want 689 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: to assimilate to the larger sort of system because they 690 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,439 Speaker 1: had a system that they felt worked for them in 691 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: whatever way that was. So I have a lot of 692 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: respect for the people that were like, no, I don't 693 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: want to leave. You can't kick me out of my home. 694 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: But like you said, sadly the last person was evicted. 695 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, there were people burning Union Jack's 696 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: setting off homemade firecrackers and stuff. A few people actually 697 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: physically battled the cops a little bit, but it wasn't 698 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, it was a pretty small resistance, and in 699 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: July of ninety two the last person left. 700 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 2: Yes, so there's nothing really left of Kowloon Walled City. 701 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,439 Speaker 2: It's just the footprint. This footprint has been around for 702 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 2: hundreds of years and it will not go away. It's 703 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: an indelible print on Hong Kong as a town, as 704 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 2: an area on the Kowloun peninsula. And even the Kaitak 705 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 2: airport is gone now. They've moved the airport further away 706 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 2: from the city center because, like you said, they had 707 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 2: to be very careful descending. We've talked about it before. 708 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 2: I don't remember, maybe like our air traffic control episode 709 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 2: or something. Yeah, where like you basically had to clear 710 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 2: the fourteenth story wild City and then suddenly dropped to 711 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 2: hit the runway. It was really not well planned because 712 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 2: there wasn't really a plan. So they moved the airport, 713 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: they got rid of kawlun Wald City, and now there's 714 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 2: a park there in its place. 715 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they didn't that documentary say that 716 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: original religious building is still there is like the only 717 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,720 Speaker 1: thing that's left from the early days. 718 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 2: It was the office of the Administrator of and yes 719 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 2: it's still there. They preserved it in the Kowloon Walld City. 720 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 2: That was what that courtyard was. It was built around that, 721 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 2: that original office from the I think the Qing dynasty. 722 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it. That's the only thing from the 723 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: early days that's left. It's like you said, it's a 724 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: green space and there's ponds. 725 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 3: It's quite lovely. 726 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: They do have a table sized scale model of what 727 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: was there. But yeah, it's still that same shape, like 728 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: if you do aerial shots, you know, it's the really 729 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: stuck to their parameters. Yea, with the city once the 730 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: walls were gone and with this parkuse it's the exact 731 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: same shape still. And you know, like we mentioned, it's 732 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: been in a ton of either directly sort of been 733 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: the setting for movies like in blood Sport from Jean 734 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: clond Beddam, or been like heavily inspired by what the 735 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: sort of the look they were going after in video 736 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: games and films. 737 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 2: I don't care what you say. Blood Sport was a 738 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 2: good movie. 739 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 3: You know what, I didn't see a single Jean Claude 740 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 3: Bandam movie. 741 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 2: I saw a time I should. I'll tell you this 742 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: off of off. Okay, but anyway, I finally saw blood 743 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 2: Sport when I was not like a couple of years ago, 744 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, this movie is actually really good. 745 00:38:59,040 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 3: I got to check it out. 746 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 2: Oh, you should check it out. That's what I'm saying. 747 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my new deal. Is John Claude all the way? 748 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, where's he been? Remember he had like a 749 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: podcast or a TV show or something for a litle 750 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 2: podcasts of course, yeah, I think he did. 751 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 3: Or it was like celebrities. 752 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 2: It was no, I'm sorry, it was like a TV 753 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 2: show where it was okay, it was a mockumentary or 754 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 2: pseudo reality where he played himself. But John Claude van 755 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: dam actually was a spy in real life or something. 756 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 3: Oh I don't, I haven't heard of that. 757 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 2: I think it was short lived. 758 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 3: All right. 759 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 2: Well, since Chuck has dedicated himself to watching John Claude 760 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 2: Van Damn movies all the time, that means obviously it's 761 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 2: time for a listener mail. 762 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 3: All right. 763 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: So this is a rare re butt to a listener mail. 764 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: So a listener writing in it about another listener mail, 765 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: because we had our Irish friend right in and point 766 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: out that we were sort. 767 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 3: Of engaging in Irish erasure, right. So, hey, guys. 768 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 1: While the emailer was correct that Sho was born in 769 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: County Kildare, Shackleton himself would have considered himself British. He 770 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: was born in Ireland while it was under British rule 771 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: and moved to Great Britain when he was ten. He 772 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: served in the British Army and was awarded many British honors. 773 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: I myself am a proud Irishman, but I don't think 774 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: you were wrong in calling him British. 775 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: Wow. 776 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm happy to accept that he was correct if there 777 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: was a quote which shows that he considered himself Irish. 778 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: Ireland in nationality is always a tricky subject. I hold 779 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: a UK driver's license in an Irish passport. I have 780 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: one child technically born in the UK and one born 781 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: in Ireland, with just eighty miles between the hospitals and 782 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: them both being on the same island. I keep up 783 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: the good work. Guy's been listening for years in all 784 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: of the show as from Jamie Finnegan, and we're not 785 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: going to wait into this any further, Jamie, because I 786 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: know that stuff is very tricky. 787 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 3: H So we have read the. 788 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: Original email and now the rebuttal, and we're going to 789 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: leave it to you guys to work it out nice. 790 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea And that was from Jamie, right, 791 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 2: Yes it is okay. Well, thanks a lot, Jamie, And 792 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 2: if you want to be like Jamie, you can send 793 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 2: us an email too. Send it off to stuff podcast 794 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com. 795 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 796 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 797 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.