Speaker 1: Who I want to watch myself when I watch porn
Speaker 1: like no, no, I do not?
Speaker 2: Is this?
Speaker 1: Who are the people who like this?
Speaker 2: Welcome to Midnight Chats, a podcast of laid back conversations
Speaker 2: with leading names in music. In keeping with these informal interviews,
Speaker 2: each new one is published weekly at midnight. This week's
Speaker 2: episode is hosted by me Greg cochrane from Loud and
Speaker 2: Quiet magazine. Tonight we start a brand new series with
Speaker 2: a brilliant guest, sent Vincent. Having started out playing in
Speaker 2: fans including the Polyphonic Spree, over the past fourteen years,
Speaker 2: Annie Clark has released a succession of incredible albums, from
Speaker 2: Marry Me in twenty seven right up to Mass Seduction
Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen. In between, she's collaborated with some
Speaker 2: of the biggest names in music, from David Byrne to
Speaker 2: Sleeter Kinney, Dave Groll to Taylor Swift and just recently
Speaker 2: some guy Paul McCartney. We get into that in the
Speaker 2: conversation you were about to hear right now, Saint Vincent
Speaker 2: is just about to release a new album, Daddy's Home,
Speaker 2: out on the fourteenth of May. I spoke to Annie
Speaker 2: back in early April, pretty much straight off the back
Speaker 2: of her performance on Saturday Night Live. Do check that
Speaker 2: out if you haven't already. We talk a bit about that,
Speaker 2: this past year of not playing live shows, the family
Speaker 2: circumstance that informed Daddy's home, and her love for, among
Speaker 2: other things, New York Black Midi and tequila. So yeah,
Speaker 2: we've got a bunch of fantastic guests lined up for
Speaker 2: across the next ten weeks. We hope you enjoy listening
Speaker 2: to these chats as much as we have enjoyed recording them.
Speaker 2: It is great to be back and we start here again.
Speaker 2: This is Saint Vincent on Midnight Chats. Just before we
Speaker 2: get into the chat. This episode of Midnight Chats is
Speaker 2: supported by Memphis Industries and Independent record label who've supported
Speaker 2: what we do at Loud and Quiet from day one.
Speaker 2: They've just released the eighth album from Sunderland band Field Music,
Speaker 2: who over the past sixteen years have become your favorite
Speaker 2: band's favorite band. I'm sure you're familiar with the group,
Speaker 2: led by brothers David and Peter Brewis. The new record
Speaker 2: has just come out and it's called Flat White Moon
Speaker 2: and is available from your local record store or you
Speaker 2: can order a copy from Field Dash Music dot co
Speaker 2: dot uk, where you can also find dates for their
Speaker 2: upcoming tour, happening in October twenty twenty one. Annie, Welcome
Speaker 2: to Midnight Chats. I'm very, very excited to have you
Speaker 2: join me on the podcast. Pretty much fresh from playing
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live at the weekend, which is the second
Speaker 2: time we've been on the show. How is the experience
Speaker 2: this time?
Speaker 1: Let's see. I would say there's more fun that the
Speaker 1: first time I played it, I was just a total
Speaker 1: bundle of nerves. So I mean, yeah, this time it
Speaker 1: was just just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Obviously, it's still a slightly different version to the sort
Speaker 2: of Saturday Night Live we're used to seeing, sort of
Speaker 2: pre pandemic. There was only there was like a small audience.
Speaker 2: Everybody was kind of obviously wearing their masks and sort
Speaker 2: of socially distanced and stuff like that. Did it lend
Speaker 2: us sort of slightly strange air to doing it? Or
Speaker 2: was it? Was it all still totally fine?
Speaker 1: No, it was all still totally fine. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really impressive how how the show has managed to keep going.
Speaker 1: I mean they're super strict, you know, rightful, so on
Speaker 1: COVID protocols for everything like that. So it really is
Speaker 1: a pretty miraculous feet that they're able to put on
Speaker 1: the show still and then also to even have the
Speaker 1: audience as any audience and there in the first place
Speaker 1: is really really cool.
Speaker 2: It was still very much used to on like all
Speaker 2: of the big kind of talk shows and entertainment shows
Speaker 2: in the UK. Still they've got the kind of video
Speaker 2: screens where there's like an audience buzzing in from home.
Speaker 2: It still seems like the way of things at the
Speaker 2: moment here that yeah, hopefully soon there will be people
Speaker 2: to be able to get back in a room and
Speaker 2: enjoy live music. I particularly enjoyed your performance of Melting
Speaker 2: of the Sun, by the way. I thought it was brilliant. Well,
Speaker 2: is that the sort of presentation of what we saw
Speaker 2: there with the live band that you had and your
Speaker 2: backing singers and everything like that. Is that how you're
Speaker 2: going to hopefully perform this album generally? Is that the
Speaker 2: sort of live setup you're hoping to put together?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: This, I mean, this music is really it sounds redundant
Speaker 1: or something, but it's really just about like musicians like
Speaker 1: just playing together, just like vibing. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it takes it definitely takes like a certain kind of
Speaker 1: singer and a certain kind of player to really really
Speaker 1: pull it off. So yeah, this is the vibe.
Speaker 2: Obviously, you've had the kind of enforced break like everybody
Speaker 2: else and not being able to perform on stage for
Speaker 2: however long it's been a year eighteen months. Was that
Speaker 2: the first time you've sort of stepped back on stage
Speaker 2: as it? Oh god, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Like everybody else, I've been in my you know, in
Speaker 1: cozy clothes, am I home or basically is more like it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, it was so fun. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was so fun to play that music. It's it's really
Speaker 1: music that's really meant to be played, you know, like
Speaker 1: really just kind of played with great players and just
Speaker 1: kind of leaned into like that. So it's so fun
Speaker 1: to just the music part. And then also, my god,
Speaker 1: the uh, the energy of any kind of crowd or
Speaker 1: or or that kind of like three two one and
Speaker 1: you're on.
Speaker 3: I mean I haven't heard anything that even vaguely resembles
Speaker 3: that feeling, and well over a year, so it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I forgot I used to do this.
Speaker 2: What was that sort of rush of adrenaline, like in
Speaker 2: the in the moments before performing, it was excitement.
Speaker 1: It was like, let's get down and dirty with it.
Speaker 1: That was really feeling and the you know, the band
Speaker 1: is so good that it there wasn't really, there wasn't
Speaker 1: any fear associated. It was just like excitement, like, let's
Speaker 1: give the people something they won't forget. They has given
Speaker 1: the people that some people will love and some people
Speaker 1: will hate.
Speaker 2: Do you think there's there's still people that would find
Speaker 2: that what you do divisive? Do you think there would
Speaker 2: still be people watching Saturday Night Live and I'm not
Speaker 2: into this?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, of course, of course. I mean
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a big, massive broad audience.
Speaker 1: You know, plenty of people that definitely haven't heard of
Speaker 1: me or so, yeah, it's definitely going to be a
Speaker 1: mix of like, loved it and what the fuck did
Speaker 1: I just see? And and I hate this?
Speaker 3: But that's fine.
Speaker 1: I think that's good. It means you made something alive,
Speaker 1: way better that than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh yeah, I'm much better to provoke some kind
Speaker 2: of feeling than just forget about it. A minute later,
Speaker 2: staying on the subject of not being able to perform live.
Speaker 2: Is it through this sort of period of the pandemic,
Speaker 2: is it felt if you felt a bit incomplete, like
Speaker 2: not being able to do that, because obviously you've you've
Speaker 2: always been somebody who's toured a lot and kind of
Speaker 2: been out on the road and supported all of your
Speaker 2: albums with tours. So has that felt like a little
Speaker 2: piece of you's sort of been missing for a little while,
Speaker 2: or have you actually embraced that chance to have a
Speaker 2: little break.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of both. I mean, definitely, starting at
Speaker 1: the beginning, I spent my whole adult life adult and
Speaker 1: quotes on the road like a real road dog, as
Speaker 1: a real road dog for a long time, which I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad and that it made me good
Speaker 1: at being on the road. You know you definitely you
Speaker 1: don't get, you know, good at performing without being bad
Speaker 1: at it first. So that part I'm glad I sort
Speaker 1: of have in my toolbox. I don't at first. I
Speaker 1: was really nervous about the shutdown, even when obviously in
Speaker 1: the beginning, when we thought it was going to be like, what,
Speaker 1: we're going to be shut down for a month? You've
Speaker 1: got to kidding me, what are we going to do
Speaker 1: we were, and it was like, I don't know, how
Speaker 1: do I be in one place for more than two
Speaker 1: weeks at a time. But then, honestly, yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: part of it was very nice because I hadn't I
Speaker 1: hadn't stopped, I hadn't stopped being on the road for
Speaker 1: for a long time, or definitely this is the longest
Speaker 1: I've ever gone in well over a decade. You get
Speaker 1: to kind of store up, I think, store up some energy,
Speaker 1: maybe get a couple of years of your life back
Speaker 1: before you go and do it again. But yeah, there's
Speaker 1: not a feeling. There's not a feeling like being on
Speaker 1: the road or performing in regular life. There's there's not
Speaker 1: an analog. There's not a rush or a purpose in
Speaker 1: quite the same way.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I can't wait. I don't know what situation
Speaker 2: is like there in the States, But at the moment
Speaker 2: was still a few months away from being able to
Speaker 2: get together again for any kind of live music in
Speaker 2: the UK. But hopefully, hopefully it's not too far away.
Speaker 2: So are you in New York at the moment?
Speaker 1: I'm in New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because the album Daddy Time is sort of indebted
Speaker 2: to a certain chapter in New York music history and
Speaker 2: kind of can you tell me a little bit more
Speaker 2: about that and how there was a certain period that's
Speaker 2: really really come to inform the film that the feel
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 1: Record, it's music made in New York City from seventy
Speaker 1: one to seventy six, post Idealistic Flower Children, pre gay disco,
Speaker 1: and pre punk. So it's really like the Steely Dan Records,
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder, Rudcords, Slime Family Stone. There's kind of like
Speaker 1: music that I've listened to more than any other music,
Speaker 1: if I'm honest, but that I'd never really kind of
Speaker 1: bowed at the feet of it. Probably wasn't ready for
Speaker 1: it in one way or another. So you know, these
Speaker 1: songs just kind of came out, these stories of people
Speaker 1: being down and out downtown and flawed people doing their
Speaker 1: best to get by and things are too easy. I'm
Speaker 1: sort of suspicious of them. But this particular record was
Speaker 1: really fun to make. There was never a moment of like,
Speaker 1: I'm standing on the precipice and I think I'm just
Speaker 1: going to jump off because it sucks, And you know,
Speaker 1: there wasn't that sort of dark night of the soul
Speaker 1: that kind of usually happens in album making. It was
Speaker 1: really joyful to make, which again I'm usually suspicious of,
Speaker 1: but I went with that. I was like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: I've earned one one.
Speaker 2: Like this, I can go back to the painful process
Speaker 2: of making records. Yeah, I'm just going to go with it.
Speaker 2: I mean, New York has always had such a strong,
Speaker 2: sort of detectable sound in so many eras, even up
Speaker 2: to the past few decades, you know, the tenth of
Speaker 2: the Century obviously, Yeah, yeah, yeahs the Strokes and later
Speaker 2: on Animal Collective and all that kind of thing. What
Speaker 2: does New York sound like sort of now in this decade?
Speaker 1: Do you think in this decade? I don't I'm not
Speaker 1: exactly sure. New York has always had a detectable sound.
Speaker 1: There's more grit to it. There's there's an edginess to it.
Speaker 1: If you look at the music that was happening in
Speaker 1: California at the time, there's a lot of great music happening.
Speaker 1: But I think of like I think of Steely Dan
Speaker 1: as New York, and I think of like the fucking
Speaker 1: Eagles is okay, which the thing with the thing the
Speaker 1: stories in Steely Dan are cynical, but the music of
Speaker 1: the Eagles is cynical. It's different. It's different. One is
Speaker 1: intentionally cynical in the songwriting, and the other is cynical
Speaker 1: in a way that thinks that people are stupid.
Speaker 2: M maybe the Internet has come along and made things
Speaker 2: a little bit more disparate. I don't know. I just
Speaker 2: maybe there's not their pockets of sounds. You know.
Speaker 1: I think we're pretty modern. I mean I think that
Speaker 1: that in the same way where nineties the nineties have
Speaker 1: made such a comeback. But it's interesting. I wonder if
Speaker 1: this is how people who lived through the seventies felt,
Speaker 1: but like when we were in the nineties and like
Speaker 1: just randomly picking stuff from the seventies and being like cool, cool,
Speaker 1: this is cool, and people who lived through it would
Speaker 1: have been like, wait, no, that was no, that's fog hat.
Speaker 1: You don't put fog hat with I don't know, bell bottoms,
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever. So it's just this really interesting
Speaker 1: kind of postmodern cherry picking of like, oh, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: there were reviving that thing, which is legitimately cool in
Speaker 1: the nineties, and then also like grabbing stuff that we
Speaker 1: were like no, no, no, that was never that was
Speaker 1: never cool. We didn't like, you know, it's like there
Speaker 1: is no context. Things plucked from other times, devoid of
Speaker 1: their context and then rearranged into something new. That's really cool,
Speaker 1: Like that's how art gets made.
Speaker 2: What's your relationship like with the city? Now? Can you
Speaker 2: can you still walk around New York and get lost
Speaker 2: in the history and the mythology of the place. There's
Speaker 2: the sort of buildings and the streets and the smells.
Speaker 2: Because last time I was there was a few years ago.
Speaker 2: Now I went. I went to find the Chelsea Hotel
Speaker 2: and found it all boarded up and there was security
Speaker 2: and cct CCTV cameras and it was a sort of
Speaker 2: strange experience but still felt like real history. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I wondered what it was like. Oh yeah, how you
Speaker 2: feel and how your relationship is now with New York?
Speaker 1: I think New York it really is a relationship that
Speaker 1: you have with New York. It's at times you're in
Speaker 1: love and at times you know it torments you, and
Speaker 1: at times you know it doesn't even care that you're there,
Speaker 1: and you're like, wait, but I thought we were friends
Speaker 1: and no, we've never heard of you in a while. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's that kind of place. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: for me, I lived of life and just a few
Speaker 1: square blocks really, and when you're walking down the streets,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, I am walking with the ghost
Speaker 1: of like every artist I loved, every you know, every
Speaker 1: kind of person has been been in this place, which
Speaker 1: is nice. I like that. I'm definitely a person who
Speaker 1: much prefers a city than like some idyllic remote place
Speaker 1: that that that I find terrifying. But you know, put
Speaker 1: me in a city with a bunch of people and
Speaker 1: things bustling, and I feel safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's funny that, Like, I've lived in London now
Speaker 2: for a long time, and when I go I was
Speaker 2: born in the countryside, and so when I go home
Speaker 2: and visit family and it's sort of very quiet at night,
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I'm pretty sure this is a horror
Speaker 2: maybe ready to happen, because where are all the sirens?
Speaker 2: I need it to sleep exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean that there's there's no doubt that an ax
Speaker 1: murder is going to come wrapping on your bedroom door
Speaker 1: any minute. That's just simply how it goes.
Speaker 2: Before we get into a bit more detail on Daddy's home,
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask a little bit about the end
Speaker 2: of the mass seduction era, Like when you finished sort
Speaker 2: of performing that record, I saw you and ended a
Speaker 2: road festival headlin in that festival with an amazing performance.
Speaker 2: What are your reflections on that album and the and
Speaker 2: the end of that period, because we're going back a
Speaker 2: couple of years now.
Speaker 1: I think of it in terms of color. I definitely
Speaker 1: think about peeling off the latex after a show that
Speaker 1: I was careering and just there was just a flood
Speaker 1: of sweat, and that was kind of a metaphor for
Speaker 1: the I think for the vibe as a whole. It's
Speaker 1: definitely about structure, about being constrained in a certain way.
Speaker 1: There's kind of nuclear bruise color palette, you know, there's
Speaker 1: multi media show like let's take over the senses, let's
Speaker 1: overwhelm them. Here's here's a slow motion of me getting
Speaker 1: in the face. Anyway, just just a real more about
Speaker 1: I think just power writ large. This one's definitely more
Speaker 1: about like, hey, come sit in the beat up armchair
Speaker 1: and like let's have a chat, the midnight chat as it.
Speaker 2: Were, Yeah, exactly then.
Speaker 1: Like so so forward.
Speaker 2: I think I was listening again to it this morning
Speaker 2: and it's just, yeah, what an amazing record. The what
Speaker 2: what what's? What's your relationship generally like with your previous work.
Speaker 2: Once it's it's out there and you've shared it with people,
Speaker 2: is it almost sort of? I mean obviously there's the
Speaker 2: live performance aspect, but the recorded side of things, is it?
Speaker 2: Is it? Once it's done? It's done. Did you ever
Speaker 2: return to listen back to your your discography as it were?
Speaker 1: I really don't. I mean I do every every every
Speaker 1: so often. Like I went back and listen to Mass
Speaker 1: Deduction probably about six months ago. Well, I thought, whoa,
Speaker 1: this is this is a pretty like it's a pretty
Speaker 1: aggressive record. It's pretty aggressive sounding. It's not it's definitely
Speaker 1: not docile. No, definitely, And I think listening back to
Speaker 1: it with the kind of some of the the intimations
Speaker 1: I got from press or whatever, you know, interviews that
Speaker 1: was like, this is a very poppy record I listened
Speaker 1: back to him, was like not really, I mean I
Speaker 1: don't not I don't know that this this says middle
Speaker 1: of the road.
Speaker 2: No, it's definitely not.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, I was like, whoa, this is this
Speaker 1: thing kind of rips I really am fond of it,
Speaker 1: really like fuck yeah. But but obviously you know, once
Speaker 1: you're Once I'm done with the record, I'm I'm excited
Speaker 1: to just kind of move on to to something else. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I've gone back and listened to self title.
Speaker 1: I probably haven't heard that and since it came out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's funny though, isn't it, Because I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't imagine many artists kind of going settling down
Speaker 2: in the living room for in drinks.
Speaker 1: You wildly underestimate the narcissism. Yeah, I've heard of many
Speaker 1: artists who insist that they have their own music playing
Speaker 1: at photo shoots or you know, when they're doing press
Speaker 1: or like come in and insist on playing either. I
Speaker 1: definitely have been sat down, cornered at a party and
Speaker 1: made to listen to an entire record.
Speaker 2: By an artist a photo shoot. I think I would
Speaker 2: just cringe inside out.
Speaker 1: Oh my god listening to my oh God, And that
Speaker 1: that happens too people like, so, do you want to
Speaker 1: listen to your record to you know, get into the
Speaker 1: mood for the photoshop and like, good god, no do
Speaker 1: I want to do? I want to like watch myself
Speaker 1: when I'm watching porn Like no, no, I do not
Speaker 1: Who is this. Who are the people who like this? No?
Speaker 2: Exactly, Please just put the Black Midi record on and
Speaker 2: be done.
Speaker 1: With it, exactly. Yeah, I'm going to get some real,
Speaker 1: really really gnarly photos that way.
Speaker 2: You've been really open about the sort of the origins
Speaker 2: of Daddy's home and the experience of your father going
Speaker 2: to prison, and it's released a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't really want to dwell on that
Speaker 2: too much because I know you've spoken about it, and.
Speaker 1: So I'd love to talk about it. Let's go there.
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't see you any but I know
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, okay, here, I suppose, I mean, really
Speaker 2: kind of it's a question about being asked about that.
Speaker 2: I suppose, because you know, you have been very honest
Speaker 2: about that experience, and so I suppose as music's been
Speaker 2: coming out and you've been doing interviews and things like that,
Speaker 2: how has that fact Has that been okay? Or is
Speaker 2: it actually ended up feeling a bit intrusive.
Speaker 1: It's a mix of both. I think that it's not
Speaker 1: any kind of story that I would have led with,
Speaker 1: except that it was told in the press already in
Speaker 1: a way that was like, that's not that's not my story.
Speaker 1: I didn't get to tell it. So in this case,
Speaker 1: you know, as far as things, as far as happy
Speaker 1: endings can go, this is this has a sort of
Speaker 1: happy ish ending in that you know, he's out and
Speaker 1: he's a contributing member to society and to the family
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. So that that part I don't
Speaker 1: That's like, fine, that's all. That's all good. I am
Speaker 1: where I am with it, and everybody's okay. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I wanted to tell my story since it
Speaker 1: had already been told by someone else and I could
Speaker 1: tell it with like humor and compassion and the more
Speaker 1: complexity and then but I probably would not have at
Speaker 1: all mentioned it had it not been kind of uncovered
Speaker 1: in a way that was really unfortunate. But also know
Speaker 1: the title the record is called Daddy's Song, which is
Speaker 1: to me, it's just the fact that it's I mean literally,
Speaker 1: I mean it figuratively, I mean it metaphorically, I mean
Speaker 1: it in a pervy way, I mean sincere way. It
Speaker 1: just just like, oh my god, that's so I got
Speaker 1: to call it that.
Speaker 2: It almost sounds menacing to me. I mean, it's funny,
Speaker 2: but it's also it sounds a bit menacing. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I called on my finger on why I think.
Speaker 1: That really, Oh, Daddy's phone like daddy's dad. There's so many,
Speaker 1: so many meanings, but I hear you with the menacing.
Speaker 1: It's like daddy's phone and he's got the belt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Yeah, I wanted to make a recommendation
Speaker 2: to you. Actually I don't if you come across the
Speaker 2: podcast called Prison Back. It's a British podcast, I'm not
Speaker 2: it's it's it's brilliant, it's it's about I mean, I
Speaker 2: know that sort of. I mean there are literally thousands
Speaker 2: upon thousands of quite sort of mawkish but true crime
Speaker 2: podcasts that are fascinated with this sort of this theme ovious,
Speaker 2: we're talking about prison but like it's a British podcast
Speaker 2: made by UK family about their experience as being the
Speaker 2: family on on the on the outside. So it was
Speaker 2: and all of the weight and emotional baggage and everything
Speaker 2: that goes with that experience that people simply just don't
Speaker 2: think about when a member of the family goes to prison.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I thoroughly recommend it was one of the
Speaker 2: best things I've heard in the last couple of years,
Speaker 2: and I just thought, these stories never get told. The
Speaker 2: people on the outside never get to they don't have
Speaker 2: a voice. Generally, it's always like, oh, what's there's this
Speaker 2: fascination with the other side of things, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean there's a whole lot that
Speaker 1: that that that being you know, the family of someone
Speaker 1: incarcerated entails you really you do time with them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's all kinds of emotions that go along with it.
Speaker 1: There's like there's the the sadness, the powerlessness, the anger,
Speaker 1: the shame, the whole you know. Really it really runs
Speaker 1: the gamut. But yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 2: I mean I would say, like I can imagine, But
Speaker 2: this podcast Prison Backs helped me imagine because it's very
Speaker 2: like empathetic in terms of articulating that range of emotions
Speaker 2: that families experienced when this stuff happens. We talked a
Speaker 2: little bit earlier about how Daddy Tone was actually, in
Speaker 2: spite of that, or parallel to that, was still a
Speaker 2: really fun record to make because you got in the
Speaker 2: studio again with Jack Antonoff, who've worked with before, and
Speaker 2: it actually it does feel like a fun record. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's so groove laden and kind of like and yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's fun. There's some pretty salty guitar solos on there,
Speaker 2: and it's just really deep. It actually reminds me of
Speaker 2: a record that I absolutely love, which is Childish Gambinos
Speaker 2: Awake My Love from a few years ago. Just in
Speaker 2: terms of that. Somehow it just catches this this this
Speaker 2: energy that transports you to the area that we already
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about.
Speaker 1: The first time I wrote for the record was Somebody
Speaker 1: Like Me, which I just did. I did in my
Speaker 1: studio in Los Angeles, and I was just writing to Ray.
Speaker 1: I didn't have the idea of the record necessarily, and
Speaker 1: so Jack wasn't there for that, and I was just
Speaker 1: like jamming in my studio listen kind of more jazz
Speaker 1: players within the But I came to New York and
Speaker 1: we were walking into Electric Lady Studios and I said
Speaker 1: to Jack, like, yeah, I just kind of want to
Speaker 1: make this like down and out downtown kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So we go in and I had this song on
Speaker 1: the holiday party that I was working on, and Jack
Speaker 1: started playing Warlitzer and I just picked up an acoustic
Speaker 1: guitar and it just the song kind of came to life.
Speaker 1: Just in that session, I had my friend Michael Lindhardt,
Speaker 1: who actually is the MD for Steely Dan commited warns
Speaker 1: on it and it was just like, oh, this is it,
Speaker 1: Like this is the vibe and we don't have to
Speaker 1: overthink it. You know. It's like for a long time
Speaker 1: I didn't want guitars to sound like guitars where I
Speaker 1: wanted to be just kind of more abstract with sounds.
Speaker 1: But in this case, they're really they're literal sounds. You
Speaker 1: could make sure the instruments they're wooden. It's like wood
Speaker 1: and leather kind of record.
Speaker 2: It's earthy. Yeah, it feels earthy. Yeah, really really like acoustic. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And for me it comes from a lower place and
Speaker 1: my body, you know, for me it comes from like,
Speaker 1: you know, guts and pelvis and abdomen area. It just
Speaker 1: is a different you know, it's a different, different place.
Speaker 2: I think the world it's there is a very underrated
Speaker 2: instrument as well is that sits on there as well.
Speaker 2: It sounds.
Speaker 1: It's an electric it's a coral electric citar guitar.
Speaker 2: It sounds, it sounds brilliant.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I was so My favorite track on the album is
Speaker 2: Down and it just it really conjures some It makes
Speaker 2: me want to grow like a handlebar mustache and then
Speaker 2: slide across some carbonnets. It's just yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing with the sitar guitar is a song
Speaker 1: like down treated a different way a would have been
Speaker 1: could have been like new metal, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, but and I for a second, I kind
Speaker 1: of tried it with those you know that stuff being
Speaker 1: like guitar, and then it just was all feeling too
Speaker 1: heavy and it needed, like it needs like levity because
Speaker 1: you're basically saying like if I ever see you, I'll
Speaker 1: like I will ruin you. So it doesn't need uh,
Speaker 1: doesn't need guitars doubling down you. You end up kind
Speaker 1: of sounding again, it goes into like new metal territories.
Speaker 1: So if you throw in the sitar guitar, it has
Speaker 1: it has the brightness and a little kind of it's
Speaker 1: like a little brittle and langy, but it has like
Speaker 1: a levity to it that the distorted guitar definitely does not.
Speaker 2: And specific reason makes me like just in terms of
Speaker 2: vision countries that like the Beastie Boys, like Sabotage video
Speaker 2: or something, I just really you know, completely separate, but
Speaker 2: I love that. Well, I'm interesting to notice that, Like,
Speaker 2: I think like a lot of the you said that
Speaker 2: some of the lot of the material on the record
Speaker 2: was first takes, So like, how did that feel?
Speaker 1: Oh, I shouldn't have said that. I mean, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's something I'm rue to this day. What I mean
Speaker 1: is that, I mean there are a couple of first
Speaker 1: take vocals on there, like you know, the vocal and
Speaker 1: down and out Downtown. I was like writing the lyrics
Speaker 1: as I'm singing it and trying things out, and it
Speaker 1: ended up that with some of the phrasing and stuff,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't beat the first take. And it's definitely
Speaker 1: like jamming, you know. It's definitely like, oh we play
Speaker 1: through this song and see what's what. And same with
Speaker 1: jacklineas bass takes and stuff. There's some things that were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's first thought, best thought, but no it's not. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a it's not a record of like okay, well
Speaker 1: we did it once and now we're you know, I
Speaker 1: wasn't that. What I meant is it's all just performed.
Speaker 1: It's not really a big, crazy production in that kind
Speaker 1: of modern sense.
Speaker 2: You've always been a collaborative artist throughout your career, from
Speaker 2: David Byrne to Nirvana and Taylor Swift and Paul McCartney. Recently,
Speaker 2: you created a version of Women and Wives for Paul
Speaker 2: McCartney's Three Reimagined What goes through a person's mind when
Speaker 2: you shoot an email off to knowing that the next
Speaker 2: pair of ears it's going to hit those of an
Speaker 2: actual beatle? Like how did that feel when you created
Speaker 2: your version and you're like, Okay, the next person I
Speaker 2: might hear this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you that. I did probably nine versions. Yeah, easily.
Speaker 2: I tried this.
Speaker 1: I tried that here and there with it before I
Speaker 1: ended up where I ended up. I got the stems
Speaker 1: from him, from his team, you know, and there was
Speaker 1: gotten maybe four tracks is his vocal, a bass, a piano,
Speaker 1: and drums. And I was like, okay, how can I
Speaker 1: do this song justice, just do it in a different way.
Speaker 1: And I listened to his vocal take I mean easily,
Speaker 1: one hundred times easy, and every time I heard it,
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this gets deeper and richer and
Speaker 1: more powerful, means something more to me every time, And
Speaker 1: I think that that's like, what incredible transcendence? What music.
Speaker 1: This is where you want to be with music, where
Speaker 1: every time you listen to it, you get something from it.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of music that that kind of
Speaker 1: takes something from you, honestly, and his just absolutely gives
Speaker 1: and gives and gives. So anyway, I did it all
Speaker 1: just in my studio and tried to put a guitar
Speaker 1: solo on there that would make Paul proud and you
Speaker 1: know all.
Speaker 2: This, Yeah, talk about like scrambling your brain when you
Speaker 2: know that, Yeah, to go to deliver this to pul McCarthy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So I finished it up and sent off
Speaker 1: the master version and I got a call from him,
Speaker 1: but you know a few months later saying that he
Speaker 1: really liked it, and he was so nice, and he
Speaker 1: sounded just like Paul McCartney, you know, and he was
Speaker 1: just lovely and he talked about his process with making
Speaker 1: the record and how excited he was about the other
Speaker 1: collaborations and asked if I had done the backup singing.
Speaker 1: I said yep, And he asked if I did the
Speaker 1: guitar solo, and I said yep, And then I said
Speaker 1: I did it all. Paul kind of vaguely regret that,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, he was just as lovely as could be.
Speaker 1: And then when at the end of the conversation, I
Speaker 1: just remembered he said, it's it's a great thing. We
Speaker 1: get to do this music thing, right, And I said, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: fall it is. And if you've fet out on the
Speaker 1: amount of hours that people have spent with music that
Speaker 1: he has made, and these lifetimes and lifetimes and lifetimes
Speaker 1: of just like joy and emotion and everything that he's
Speaker 1: given to people, it's really really amazing. Not all music
Speaker 1: gives you something. A lot of music takes it away. Personally,
Speaker 1: I find like.
Speaker 2: Oh, no, music that makes you you work hard or
Speaker 2: take something from you. You mean, can you explain that
Speaker 2: to you a bit more?
Speaker 1: Well, I just seem like I just mean it's not
Speaker 1: music that I seek out to listen to. I think
Speaker 1: it's music that just happens like more more times than not.
Speaker 1: I'm just damning something to be like, oh, remind me
Speaker 1: never to this on and this is you're getting the
Speaker 1: tired of me? Sorry, but yeah, no, where You're just like,
Speaker 1: I don't this takes more energy for me to listen
Speaker 1: to it than it does then it gives me in
Speaker 1: the act listening. That's what I that's.
Speaker 2: What I mean, You're involvement with them. Sleeza Kinney's record
Speaker 2: The Censeer Won't Hold a couple of years ago, another
Speaker 2: album that you've been involved with that I thought it
Speaker 2: was fantastic. How was it that experience of producing that record.
Speaker 2: Did it give you a taste of wanting to continue
Speaker 2: doing that kind of thing, to work in that way
Speaker 2: with with with other artists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I loved save, been a huge fan
Speaker 1: since I was a teen, and Carrie's my bestie, so
Speaker 1: like it was, it was so fun. Yeah, the process
Speaker 1: was really it was really, really, really fun. I have
Speaker 1: to say Carrie and Koran, who are the writers in
Speaker 1: Sleater Kinney. Janet was the drummer, but she's not a writer.
Speaker 1: So Carrie and Koran just wrote their wrote their asses
Speaker 1: off and were they wanted to do something different. They
Speaker 1: wanted to do something that they were just kind of
Speaker 1: saying they're old tools. Just they were tired of their
Speaker 1: old tools. They wanted to do something else. So we just, yeah,
Speaker 1: we just had a lot of fun making the record.
Speaker 2: We already mentioned or I mentioned Black Medy in the podcast.
Speaker 2: I know that you're a fan of that band. We
Speaker 2: love back. I love Black Men Social amazing band. When
Speaker 2: and where do you do you love listening to Black
Speaker 2: MIDI and you have kind of nice to see that
Speaker 2: band live yet because they're sort of stunning live band.
Speaker 1: Oh I got there. I mean I've seen I've seen
Speaker 1: YouTube and they're great, but no, I've not. I've not
Speaker 1: had a chance to see them live yet. I think
Speaker 1: obviously we've been kind of out of commission in terms
Speaker 1: of live music for a minute. So but I love
Speaker 1: to listen to Black Midy in my car and trying
Speaker 1: to fans listening to Black Mity it like threads the
Speaker 1: Needles so so well. It's creepy and fucked up angular
Speaker 1: but like not proggy in a way that is merely athletic.
Speaker 1: That's like, you know, intentionally proggy. The drummers so sick.
Speaker 1: It's just I love Black METI. I'm excited for the
Speaker 1: new stuff that just came out.
Speaker 2: To final question I was gonna ask you, is I
Speaker 2: subscribe to a record club who send me like a
Speaker 2: mystery piece of vineyl every month. When they send a record,
Speaker 2: they send like a cocktail recipe with it as well,
Speaker 2: And I just wondered if they were to send me
Speaker 2: Daddy's home. What would you how would you best enjoy
Speaker 2: that record? What would you sit down and enjoy that
Speaker 2: record with? In terms of the refreshing.
Speaker 1: Beverage, I'd say tequila neat nice a repersad or to
Speaker 1: quiala neat. If it tastes good, you can sip it,
Speaker 1: good quality tequila neat. That's what I think.
Speaker 2: To find previous episodes of Midnight Chats, simply search your
Speaker 2: podcast app. Don't forget to hit follow or subscribe to
Speaker 2: keep up as they're published every week at midnight. For
Speaker 2: more information on the music magazine that makes this series,
Speaker 2: visit Loud and Quiet dot com.
Speaker 1: Anyway, good night,