1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to cool People who 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: did cool stuff. I'm your host, Marcare Kildrey, and every 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: week I cover people being cool, except when I have 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: special episodes like today, where instead I cover things I 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: think are cool, and I think witches are cool or 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: at least interesting. The actual definition of witches I came 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: up with earlier, where you like, do magic to hurt 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: people or whatever, Like, I don't know, that's like not 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: actually particularly cool. That's like saying like violence is cool, 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: Like violence is sometimes useful or necessary, but overall it's 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: like nothing to be proud of, right, because it's mostly 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: done in bad ways. So I guess that's actually how 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: I probably feel about what would definitionally be understood is witchcraft, 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: but the concept of witches as we currently talk about 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: them super cool. Except this episode isn't really about the 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: current version of witches. It's more about how we got there, 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: and specifically how the concept of the witch was developed 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: by a bunch of misogynists and church people both Protestant 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: and Catholic, in order to keep power relations going. And 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: that's bad, but reclaimed stuff is good. It seems obvious 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: that I think that I'm a punk punk is an 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: example of a reclaimed slur so, which is an example 23 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: of a reclaimed category of crime that has now become 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: an identity for people. Anyway, this is part two. If 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: you go back to part one, you'll hear me talk 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: about how which is kind of weren't real except service 27 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: magicians were and some of them did witchcraft, so actually, 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: which is kind of were real. Also, no one knows, 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: but we're going to talk about the inquisition. There's a 30 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: money python joke I could do here, but I'm not 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: going to. It's a leave it as an exercise for 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: the audience too. Imagine the money python joke. Also, this 33 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: is a solo episode. You probably figured that out by now. 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: There's no Sophie, there's no guest. There's a Rory. 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: Hi. Rory. 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: Rory is our audio engineer. Anyway, where were we The 37 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: Hammer of Witches, which is a pretty. 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. 39 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: It's a pretty cool name for like real evil book. 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: And it's like, like evil is cool and spooky. This 41 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: is like evil evil. This is like, you know, uh, 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: exercising institutional power to destroy people. That this is like 43 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: the biggest most dangerous in cell book ever written, which 44 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: is kind of impressive. Okay, so the story of the 45 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: Hammer of Witches. That's not the entire episode, it's going 46 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: to be part of it. There was this asshole guy 47 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: named Heinrich Kramer. He joined the Dominican Order, and soon 48 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: enough he's an inquisitor. This is like, uh, you know, 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: fourteen hundreds. He shows up in Germany and is like, hello, 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: I am an inquisitor and I'm specifically mad about witches 51 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: because I hate women. And local authorities are like, no, 52 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: we don't really need you. Fuck off, which is, after all, 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: worn a big deal, nothing to get inquisitioning about. So 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: our guy, Heinrich, He's like, all right, fine, I'll go 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: to Skydad's main man, the Pope, and get his permission 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: to do some fucking witch hunting. And you know, earlier 57 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: I was like talking about all these popes that were like, 58 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: witches aren't real. There's a problem with investing absolute power 59 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: into specific individuals. It's the monarchy problem. And besides the 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: moral problem, there's the specific problem of well, if you 61 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: have a different guy, then he might have a different 62 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: point of view and he might have a bad take, 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, the bad take is 64 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: the rules. So in fourteen eighty four, Pope Innocent to 65 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: the eighth proves his own name to not have been 66 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: much of a nominative deterministic thing. Because he is not 67 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: so innocent. He writes a papal bull which is basically 68 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: a decree, because in Catholicism they just rename everything, And 69 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: this decree says that witchcraft counts as heresy. It says, quote, 70 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: many persons of both sexes, unmindful of their own salvation 71 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: and strain from the Catholic faith, have abandoned themselves to devils, 72 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: incubi and succubi, and by their incantations, spells, conjurations, and 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: other accursed charms and crafts, enormities and horrid offenses, have 74 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: slain infants. Yet in the mother's womb, as also the 75 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: offspring of cattle, have blasted the produce of the earth, 76 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: the grapes of the vine, the fruits of the trees, 77 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: nay men and women, beasts of burthen herd beasts, as 78 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: well as animals of other kinds, vineyards orchards, meadows, pastureland, corn, wheat, 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: and all other cereals. This is all one sentence. I 80 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: don't even I'm not even gonna quote the entire sentence. 81 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot of anywhere you might think there's a period, 82 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: there's a semicolon. These wretches, furthermore, afflict and torment men 83 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: and women, beasts of burthen herd, beasts as well as 84 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: animals of other kinds, with terrible and piteous pains and 85 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: sore diseases both internal and external. They hinder men from 86 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: performing the sexual act and women from conceiving. That's like 87 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: only half the sentence. That's yeah. Anyway, So the papal 88 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: bull is like, I'm afraid of them witches. They make 89 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: men impotent, and they also do all of these other things. 90 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: And Okay, one of the things that's horrible about talking 91 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: about all this like witchcraft stuff and this witch trial stuff. 92 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: So like we're really seeing the return to this. Honestly, 93 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: like the evangelical embrace of the pro life thing really 94 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: has this vibe of like they're all a bunch of 95 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: baby murderers, and I don't know, there's gonna be some 96 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: other fun comparisons coming up later about suddenly people believing 97 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: in real wild stuff, especially because the Protestants, once they 98 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: come on the scene, they're gonna like specifically believe Eve 99 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: they're way more that. Yes, of course sex is bad, 100 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: but it's still like, you got to be having it, 101 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: so therefore you've got to be married, and you can 102 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: only be married in ways that are procreative. 103 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: And blah blah blah. 104 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: Anyway, I've read in a couple places, but like anecdotal sources, 105 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: that the clergy was really mad about this particular degree 106 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: because they were like, no, we have a long standing 107 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: tradition of not giving a shit about witches, and then 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: here's this pope and isent the eighth being like blah 109 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: blah blah, witches this and that, and they're like, that's bullshit, 110 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: none of that's real. But all the clergy didn't stop 111 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: this from influencing the Pope's pet misogynist murderer, the aforementioned inquisitor, 112 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: Heinrich Kramer. Kramer went on to kill fifty people over 113 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: the next five years, after he'd been given permission specifically 114 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: to do so by the Pope. Why did he so 115 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: desperately want to hunt witches, Well, it sounds like it 116 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: was because he was low key stalking this local woman, 117 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: Helena Schubern. He was obsessed with her, and she didn't 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: like him. She didn't go to church, perhaps because she 119 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: was avoiding him, or maybe she just didn't like going 120 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: to church. One day, she was supposedly walking past Kramer 121 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: and spat and said, fie on you, you bad monk. May 122 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: the falling evil take you, which is a pretty sick 123 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: like I don't want the falling evil to take me. 124 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: That sounds scary, Like what even is that? Is it 125 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: just the slow embrace of darkness? Who knows? Anyway, maybe 126 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: maybe other people know. 127 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: I don't know what the falling evil is. It just 128 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: sounds cool and spooky. 129 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: However, it's not a good idea to say this to inquisitors. 130 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: She was put on trial for witchcraft. She was acquitted. 131 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Kramer got so mad about it that he invented the 132 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: modern witch hunt. The local bishop was like, you are 133 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: senile and crazy, get out of here. And this is 134 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: presumably when he went to the Pope for permission to 135 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: murder people. But I've like read the timeline in different ways, 136 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 1: so I wasn't exactly sure how to put it together. 137 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: And so then he's like murdering people and he's like, hell, yeah, 138 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: this is the rules. I'm in cel murder man. He 139 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: wrote the most influential book on witch hunting, even though 140 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: it actually strayed. This is going to shock you. It 141 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: actually strayed from most of the accepted inquisitorial material, and 142 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church would soon disavow this book. This book 143 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: is The Hammer of Witches, and it influenced secular courts, 144 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: but not religious courts by and large, So this like 145 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: wasn't being used by the Church inquisition. This was being 146 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: used by local secular courts. That book, The Hammer of Witches, 147 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: is a misogynistic tone about why women are uniquely weakned 148 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: evil and that they should be tortured and burned at 149 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: the stake. It's bad. It presents the idea that witchcraft 150 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: is heretical, which is actually a secular crime at the time, 151 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: so this is why secular courts are doing their witch hunting. 152 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: It also contains some pretty elaborate forgery. It claims that 153 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: a respective theological institution supported it, and like even has 154 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: like all the signatures and then like signatures of notaries 155 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: and things like that on it. But it's almost certainly 156 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: all a forgery. It seems as though everyone at that 157 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: institution hated this book. It's possible that the book was 158 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: banned after three years by the church in fourteen ninety, 159 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: but this is disputed. It seems like people believed it 160 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: was banned. 161 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: But the I don't know whatever. 162 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into the weird details about 163 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: the list of banned books and when they were published. 164 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: But Kramer himself was condemned in fourteen ninety for doing 165 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: shit unethically and illegally, and from then on, as best 166 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: as I can tell, he wasn't personally allowed to murder 167 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: people anymore. His book, though, continued to go through dozens 168 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: of editions, leading to uncountable more deaths. Eventually, the book 169 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: pretended had a second author, basically like one of the 170 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: printings they were like, it's by two people, like a 171 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: respective theologian's name was added to it, even though we 172 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: probably didn't approve of it. The Hammer of Witches says 173 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: quote the witches deserve the heaviest punishment above all the 174 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: criminals in the world. It was obsessed with the sex 175 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: lives of evil women. Sexuality is the literal basis of witchcraft, 176 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: according to this book, and the devil fucks power into people. 177 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: If you don't fuck the devil, you don't get as 178 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: cool magic powers In the book, Kramer writes, the devil 179 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: has power over those who follow their lusts. As for 180 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: why women are particularly prone to witchcraft, it's because women 181 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: are more carnal. Of course, we also have bad memories, 182 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: which is why we're undisciplined and impulsive. We're vain, our 183 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: voice is a siren song, and we ruin men. He writes, 184 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: woman is beautiful to look upon, contaminating to the touch, 185 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: and deadly to keep. And all witchcraft comes from carnal lusts, 186 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: which in women are insatiable. Oh and also, plus, Jesus 187 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: was a boy, so boys are clearly more holy. Yeah, 188 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: obviously hasn't heard of my home. Jesus is a transman theory, 189 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: although you know, maybe he's just being trans inclusive. Jesus 190 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: is a transman theory, being that, well, if you don't 191 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: have an earthly father, you have xx chromosomes. Anyway, this 192 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: is not necessarily always true, but whatever this is, go 193 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: with it. So, according to Kramer, witches meet the devil 194 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: at the witch's sabbath, swear an oath to him, and 195 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: make an ointment from dead baptized babies. Earlier works on 196 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: these sabbaths were a bit more pornographic describing how people 197 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: would kiss Satan on the asshole and such, and the 198 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: Sabbath was more of a lustful orgy in the earlier books, 199 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: But in The Hammer of Witches, neither the witches nor 200 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: the devil actually enjoy the sex. It's just a solemn 201 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: duty in the name of evil. Like lie back and 202 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: think of Satan. But after her initiation into evil, the 203 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: witch likes fucking lots of people, probably everyone but Kramer. 204 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: This whole book is so so incel coded. Just looking 205 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: at an impure woman can corrupt a man, since eyes 206 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: are the mirror of the soul. Also, only the witches 207 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: can see the devil during these ceremonies, and observers see 208 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: only the women lying on their backs orgasamine, which makes 209 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: me wonder if people weren't just like watching women masturbating 210 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: in the forest or whatever, which seems like a perfectly 211 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: fine and healthy pastime. Get together with your you know, 212 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: gal pals, and go masturbating the woods. The sexual powers 213 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: of witches are endless. They can cause lust in men, 214 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: They can destroy relationships. They can turn dicks into other 215 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: things or steal them outright. They can make a man 216 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: no longer attracted to a given woman. They can also 217 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: cause impotence or sterility. Some witches would collect dicks and 218 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: keep them in a bird's nest where they lived off 219 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: of corn and oats, like they were little baby bird dicks. 220 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: And according to this book, all accused witches are guilty, 221 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: and the ones who don't confess are damned. The ones 222 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: who do confess are you know, saved by being burned alive. 223 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: It's real good, much like the good that comes from 224 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: giving all of your money to the people who gave 225 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: us money. That's what you should do. You totally shouldn't 226 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: either subscribe to cooler zone media and therefore not have ads, 227 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: or just press the forward fifteen seconds but in like 228 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: four or five times. 229 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 2: You probably know how many times to put it. Here's 230 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: the ads and we're back. 231 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: So this book is bad, but also its impact on 232 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: the witch trials has been overstated. Like I mentioned before, 233 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: interest in the witch trials really kicked off during the 234 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies or so, and there wasn't as much research 235 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: available back then. The Hammer of Witches was likely the 236 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: only tone available in print in English at the time, 237 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: and so people read it and were like, oh, the 238 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: witch hunts were pretty much just misogyny. But this book 239 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: didn't really cause the witch trials? So what caused the 240 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: witch trials? There are a bunch of different hypotheses. Most 241 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: of them are wrong. I'm going to talk about one 242 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: of the more can convincing ones for a moment before 243 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: I get to the one that I find most convincing. 244 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: This next one I don't think is like wrong. It's 245 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: just we's wrong in some ways. But whatever, it has 246 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,479 Speaker 1: a lot of good truth in it. It's worth understanding. 247 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: A Marxist feminist named Sylvia Federici wrote what is in 248 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: my Circles the single most important book about witches and 249 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: the witch Trials. It's called Caliban and the Witch. It 250 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: covers a reasonably wide range of topics, but the core 251 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: of its argument, as I understand it, is this the 252 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: witch trials represent the patriarchal oppression of women, the excizing 253 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: of women from the healing arts like you've got the 254 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: good learned doctors who are men and who went to 255 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: man only school, and in the early modern era, they 256 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: become the only acceptable form of healing, so more organic 257 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: and folk practices were being shoved out and criminalized. Federici 258 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: ties this idea into the idea of primitive accumulation. This 259 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: is a concept in Marxism that, while I'm not a Marxist, 260 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: I think is worth understanding because I overall think that 261 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: Marx had incredibly important contributions to the study of economics. 262 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: Even if I disagree with whatever. You don't need to 263 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: know why disagree with Marx. Just listen to like half 264 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: the episodes I do. Primitive accumulation might be better translated 265 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: these days as original accumulation, because the word primitive has 266 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: different connotations than it did when the idea was coined. 267 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: It originally kind of meant like original, like oh, this 268 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: is the first version of this. The primitive form of 269 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: it just means the original form of it. It's not 270 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: like the accumulation from primitive people, although that happens. By 271 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: the reason that it sounds confusing this because we'll get 272 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: to it. Primitive accumulation. Basically, wealth has to come from somewhere, 273 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: right in Marxist economic theory simplified here the labor theory 274 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: of value. Wealth comes from the labor of the working class. 275 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: But what about the raw materials? Those are gathered through 276 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: primitive accumulation, which is to say, the extraction of value 277 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: from the natural world. Colonialism does this right, show up 278 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: somewhere and cut down all their trees and send them 279 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: off to England and suddenly have extracted all the value 280 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: from Ireland. This is the thing that comes before capitalism. 281 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: Marx came up with the idea of primitive accumulation to 282 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: counteract the Adam Smith pro capitalist idea that what started 283 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: capitalism was that the industrious worker eventually built up more 284 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: value than the lazy worker did, and so this is 285 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: how the lazy worker ended up a worker and the 286 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: other guy ended up an owner. Marx was like, no, 287 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: it was because the proto capitalist just like robed the 288 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: shit out of everything and everyone, or to quote him 289 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: directly from capital and of course he's going to use 290 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: outdated racial terminology here. The discovery of gold and silver 291 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: in America, the extirpation enslavement and entoument in minds of 292 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: the Aboriginal population, the beginning of the conquest and looting 293 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: of the East Indies, the turning of Africa into a 294 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: warren for the commercial hunting of black skins signaled a 295 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: rosy dawn of the era of capitalist production. So basically, 296 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: primitive accumulation is like run around privatize everything, and you know, 297 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: ties into the enclosure of the comments that I talk 298 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: about all the time and things. Anyway, Marxist feminists, especially 299 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: those in developing nations, started talking about how basically this 300 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: accumulation continues today based on the unpaid work of women, 301 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: that the whole of capitalism is upheld by unpaid domestic labor, 302 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: reproductive labor as it's called, which is another weird phrase 303 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: because it makes you think that they mean like making babies, 304 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: but they actually mean reproducing social conditions. I think that, honestly, 305 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: all this terminology needs to be renamed, because otherwise this 306 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: is never going to come across to people. 307 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: But maybe I'm wrong. 308 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: The unpaid stuff that greases the whole economy is the 309 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: reproductive labor doing the dishes and child rearing, and the 310 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: unpaid labor of teaching kids as compared to the paid 311 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: labor of teaching kids, all of that stuff. A German 312 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: woman named Mariah Maiz wrote a book called Patriarchy and 313 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: Accumulation on a World Scale that is like and behind 314 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: this accumulation is a genocidal or like what happened to 315 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: women in the witch hunts of Europe. And I'm under 316 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: the impression Mariah Meis was writing this when people for 317 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: good reason, when the research hadn't been done, and people 318 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: thought that we were talking about like millions and millions 319 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: of women being killed instead of like, eh, thirty thousand 320 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: or whatever. This is the idea that Sylvia Federici is 321 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: expanding upon, the idea that primitive accumulation continues to this day, 322 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: and one of the places it does so is women. 323 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: And one of the big examples of this is the 324 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: witch hunts. That which cannot be controlled will be exterminated, which, 325 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: to be clear, is absolutely what the Catholic Inquisition was 326 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: all about. Convert what you can, exterminate what you can't. 327 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: So Federici talks about the witch hunts as a war 328 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: against women who don't participate properly in capitalism. She also 329 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: describes the medieval world as a world in revolt against 330 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: the masters, against nobility in the church, future veterans of 331 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: the pod, the peasant revolts were kicking off all over 332 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: the place, and heretical Christian sects that believe in it autonomy, 333 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: basically communism, free love, and all kinds of cool shit 334 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: were just everywhere you looked, and some of them were like, 335 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, heretical Christian sects that were only mildly 336 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: better than the Catholic Church or whatever. But it's fine. Again, 337 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff that the Inquisition absolutely 338 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: wanted to destroy and existed to destroy. Those movements, Federici says, 339 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: were often led by women. Then you've got the Black Death, 340 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: and suddenly there weren't so many workers, and wages go 341 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: up and rents go down, and there was this spirit 342 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: of revolt in the possibility of change. Maybe the workers 343 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: would finally throw off their chains. But then capitalism showed 344 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: up as a counter revolution, something that shut down this 345 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: other revolution that was happening. To quote Federici, capitalism was 346 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: the response of the feudal lords, the patrician merchants, the 347 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: bishops and popes to a century's long social conflict that 348 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: in the end shook their power. Capitalism was the counter 349 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: revolution that to destroyed the possibilities that had emerged from 350 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: the anti feudal struggle, possibilities which, if realized, might have 351 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: spared us the immense destruction of lives in the natural 352 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: environment that has marked the advance of capitalist relations worldwide. 353 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: So basically shit had to change, but rather than change 354 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: in a cool way, a counter revolution made it change 355 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: in a bad way. Serfdom is out rent and wage 356 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: labor is in and so this new status quo emerged, 357 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: and it wanted to deal with the wild other anyone 358 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: living outside this growing capitalism, basically including women and children 359 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: in colonial subjects, they didn't get to have wages, and 360 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: so they had to be contained as wild others. We've 361 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: talked about this a few times on the show before, 362 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: about how in the European medieval conception women like now 363 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: we tend to think that this misogynist thing is to 364 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: assume that women are like servile and demur whatever. But 365 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: instead the medieval conception of women was that they are 366 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: chaotic and outside of good civilized Christian values, which is 367 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: of course pretty cool. This is an excuse for centuries 368 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: of misogyny. But this framework that women are wild, uncontrollable 369 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: people makes like, I don't know, makes womanhood both like 370 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: cys and trans like all the more interesting to me. 371 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: To declare my womanhood is to declare my affinity to 372 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: the wild world or whatever, much like I've declared my 373 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: affinity to the thing that I just said. I hated 374 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: capitalism because they gave me some money to run their ads, 375 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: and I wanted to eat food, so I run the ads. 376 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: Here they are anyway, we're back. The rise of capitalism 377 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: in this read is tied to the rise of patriarchy 378 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: and stronger gender roles. But I've read criticism of Federici 379 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: pointing out that she's not doing enough work here talking 380 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: about the patriarchal forms that preceded capitalism. And also when 381 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: she was talking about being like and then the popes 382 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: and the lords did a capitalism, I don't she might 383 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: be better read about this than me. I'm not sure, 384 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: But overall I would say that it's like the merchant 385 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: class that really wanted capitalism, and like the lords and 386 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: the popes like really didn't because it undermined their power. 387 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: So it's imperfect, but right. So you have this idea 388 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: that rise of capitalism is the rise of patriarchy and 389 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: stronger gender roles. By this read, instead of the power 390 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 1: being held by a whole surf family, it is now 391 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: a rental agreement between the head of the household, the 392 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: man and the landlord. Now that ownership is important, women's 393 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: inability to own things is suddenly a big problem. We've 394 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: talked a few times on the show about how the 395 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: invention of the white race is part of the colonial 396 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: project's way of pitting working class people against each other, like, hey, 397 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: mister English working class man, you may be starving, but 398 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: at least you're better than a black man or an irishman. 399 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: And then soon enough, hey mister irishman, you're white now too. Whiteness. 400 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: It's like basically whiteness as a way to destroy class solidarity. Well, 401 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: patriarchy offered something similar in Federici's take, as Karl Krisplebedeb 402 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: put it, Federici explains how the rebelliousness of male workers 403 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: was channeled into sexual violence, women's bodies providing a pleasant 404 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: diversion and safety valve to relieve social pressure. Drawing on 405 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: Jacques Roussaud's research about prostitution in the fifteenth century France, 406 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: she describes a literal rape movement whereby sexual assaults on 407 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: any poor woman were now tolerated by the authorities, essentially decriminalized. 408 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: This was potentially when the sphere of men's work in 409 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: women's work was codified, with men in the productive labor 410 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: sphere the money economy and women in the reproductive labor sphere, 411 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: the non money economy, that basically working class men were 412 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: offered the chance to be better than someone, to therefore 413 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: have gender solidarity with other men instead of class solidarity 414 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: with other oppressed people. This book, Caliban and the Witch, 415 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: is incredibly influential, and there are parts of it that 416 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure will hold up probably forever. There are other 417 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: parts that are not really holding up to more recent scholarship, 418 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: especially as relates to the witch hunts specifically, there just 419 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: isn't evidence that witch hunts targeted women healers. The witch 420 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: hunts didn't tend to target the cunning folk, the service magicians. 421 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: A lot of the accusers or expert witnesses were the midwives, 422 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: the herbalists, the cunning folk, the service magicians. Women did 423 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: an awful lot of the accusing as well. In numerous countries, 424 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: more men than women were targeted as witches, and perhaps 425 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: most importantly, witch hunts weren't really They weren't this top 426 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: down thing. The witch hunts were basically church and secular 427 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: authorities giving in to popular pressure, the popular demand for 428 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: witch hunts. The witch hunts primarily targeted women because some 429 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: of their orchestrators were misogynists, and because the witch hunts 430 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: were about power dynamics, more bro loose women serving girls, 431 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: or just unpopular women or even two popular women were 432 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: easy targets. Author Christina Larner put it, quote witchcraft accusations 433 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: were sex related, not sex specific. Doctor Wanda Waporska, author 434 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: of Witchcraft and Early Modern Poland fifteen hundred eighteen hundred, 435 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: said in an interview with the New Statesmen about the 436 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: Polish witch trials, the majority of women accused were servants 437 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: in a precarious situation, living in someone else's house and 438 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: subject to the power dynamic that brings It's not always 439 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: easy to discover the age of the accused, but a 440 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: wide range of women and men were accused from varying 441 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: social backgrounds, of various ages and different family situations. Waporska 442 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: went on to say, quote, although many have tried to 443 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: claim an overarching reason for the witchcraft persecution, from ergotism 444 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: to the little Ice age, from misogyny to the persecution 445 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: of midwives, as more research emerges in a rich tapestry 446 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: of regional studies, it's clear that a mono causal explanation 447 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: is impossible. But while the causes of individual trials were 448 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: all over the place. There was potentially a single institutional 449 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: reason why the trials were happening at all, or specifically 450 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: where they were happening, and the chain of events that 451 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: caused that to happen was on October thirty first, fifteen seventeen. 452 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm writing this on October thirty first, spooky, a man 453 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: named Martin Luther nailed ninety five theses onto the door 454 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: of a church in Germany. And for once the Catholic 455 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: Church would be faced with a heresy they couldn't immediately crush. 456 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: Protestantism was born. Germany, the birthplace of Protestantism, was where 457 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: around forty percent of which trials would take place orchestrated 458 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: by both Protestants and Catholics alike. Why. In twenty seventeen, 459 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: two economists Peter L. Leeson and Jacob W. Russ put 460 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: forth a theory in the Economic Journal that, well, I'll 461 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: just quote their introduction quote. We argue that the Great 462 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: European Witch Trials reflected a non price competition between the 463 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: Catholic and Protestant churches for religious market share in confessionally 464 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: contested parts of Christendom. Analyzes of new data covering more 465 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: than forty three thousand people tried for witchcraft across twenty 466 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: one European countries over a period of five and a 467 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: half centuries, and more than four hundred early modern Catholic 468 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: Protestant conflicts support our theory. More intense religious market contestation 469 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: led to more intense witch trial activity. Basically, the people 470 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: wanted to be saved from witches. They've been clamoring for 471 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: this for one thousand years. Or they wanted the fun 472 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: of a big show trial, and they wanted to get 473 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: to accuse people and shit, and you know, the Church 474 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: kept telling them, no, they're not allowed to do the 475 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: random murder. But much like politicians campaigning in swing states, 476 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: both Protestants and Catholics were like, yeah, okay, what do 477 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: you want, We'll do it. And they would put on big, 478 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: expensive show trials and say we're the ones who can 479 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: save you from witches. Stick with us. This is pretty 480 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: easily understandable just by looking at the locations of the trials. 481 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: Wherever Catholicism had a strong monopoly, they didn't burn many 482 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: witches at all. Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, really unburning, Germany, 483 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: France firetimes. The other thing these trials were trying to prove, 484 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: of course, was like, hey, we can fuck you up, 485 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, like we're good at exerting power. You should 486 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: probably stick with us. People wanted to accuse the other 487 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: side of heresy and witchcraft as much as possible. At first, 488 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: the Church had tried to brand luther a heretic, but 489 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: so many rulers had converted to Lutheranism that the Church 490 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: couldn't touch it. The monopoly was broken. Inquisitors weren't allowed 491 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: into Lutheran lands. Eventually, in order to like make peace, 492 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: in fifteen fifty five, the Holy Roman Empire decriminalized Lutheranism 493 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: to bring peace to the land. This wasn't freedom of 494 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: religion for people, as far as I can tell, but 495 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: just for various princes to determine what religion everyone in 496 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: their land had to be, so like freedom of religion 497 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: for princes. Since the Catholic Church couldn't crush Lutherism, they 498 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: had to try other things to exert their dominance, like 499 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, witch trials. The competition between the two faiths 500 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: went beyond who can burn the most people alive. Of course, 501 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: both rushed to build schools. Protestants were like ten percent 502 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: off the top of the tithe is cheaper than Catholicism, 503 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: all of its indulgences and weird, expensive things. And Catholics 504 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: were like, you like saints, We'll give you more saints, 505 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: all the saints you can pray to. The Catholics were like, 506 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: the Protestants are heretics. The Protestants were like, the Catholics 507 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: themselves are witches. Look at their weird rituals transubstantiation. Really 508 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: you think that bread literally turns to flesh in your stomach. 509 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: So both sides burn people and burn people. Luther himself 510 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: advocated burning witches. A fifteen thirty two law declared witchcraft 511 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: a crime in Germany, punishable by burning at the stake 512 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: if it hurts someone. By fifteen seventy two, Augustus of 513 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: Saxony said burn every witch, even for fortune telling. On 514 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: both sides, a ton of clergy were like, hey, can 515 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: we can we not? What the hell are we doing? 516 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: Why are we burning people? This seems bad, but it 517 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: took centuries for those voices to be heard. This pissing 518 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: match between the Catholics and the Protestants is far and 519 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: away the most convincing hypothesis to me. But of course 520 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: Federici makes some interesting points about how it ties into 521 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: the rise of capitalism and the war on women and 522 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: the war on everything outside the new social order. There 523 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: are a few other hypotheses floating around as well, and 524 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure they're sometimes out accurate and had some influence. 525 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: Some people blame bad weather. There was a mini ice 526 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: age at the time and people were suffering, and some 527 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: of those people thought that witches could control the weather. 528 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: Imagine something so silly as that. That's my reference to 529 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: the fact that currently there's people who claim that either 530 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: the Democrats or the Jews are like controlling the weather 531 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: because nothing has changed, which is bad because this all 532 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: led to hundreds of years of burning people alive. Anyway, 533 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: statistical analysis shows there's no correlation between bad weather and 534 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: witch trials. There is some correlation between economic downturns and 535 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: witch hunting, which makes sense the popular clamor goes up 536 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: when wages go down. Sure, a few people have tried 537 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: to suggest why Ireland didn't have many witch trials. NIVEH. Boyce, 538 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: writing for The Irish Examiner, suggests that this is because 539 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: Ireland had pretty cozy feelings about quote so called witchcraft 540 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: practices at the time, and no one was mad at 541 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: anyone for believing in fairy wells or anything. Sylvia Federici 542 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: would say it was because Ireland still had a strong 543 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: communal economy, with collective land ownership and strong informal and 544 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: familial social safety nets in place. I also think you 545 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: could say something about how Ireland was during the early 546 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: modern period, a colonized place, more than part of Europe proper, 547 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: at least economically. But I admit, as much as I 548 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: want to believe that Ireland is just cool and good, 549 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: the most likely reason is that it was firmly Catholic. 550 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: No need to burn any witches anywhere but the Swing 551 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: States anyway, Hopefully none of that seems on the nose. 552 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: About the future you're listening to this in where whatever. 553 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: If you're listening to as like five years from now, 554 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: this will seem quaint. But how are the camps that 555 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: you're stuck in? Or maybe we've created a socialist utopia 556 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: or something else. 557 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 2: Who knows. 558 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: No one knows the future but you in the future. 559 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: That's the song that I always close this pod, asked with, Oh, 560 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: maybe I should have guests more often, otherwise I'll just 561 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: keep singing to you all. No one wants that. But 562 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: what you do want are my plugs, which is that. 563 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: I have another podcast called Live Like the World Is Dying, 564 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: comes out every Friday and is put out by anarchist 565 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: publishing collective I'm part of called Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, 566 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: and Live Like the World Is Dying is about individual 567 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: and community preparedness. I have a bunch of co hosts 568 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: and they've been doing most of the work while I'm 569 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: on tour. Well they do a lot of yeah, they 570 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: do probably most of the work. 571 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 2: Anyway. 572 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm just one of the hosts. But you can listen 573 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: to me talking about making go bags and getting ready 574 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: for bad stuff because for some reason, I think that 575 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: that's important. Anyway, to go just poison people, know, go 576 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: live your best life. 577 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon. 578 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 579 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 580 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: visit our website foolzonmedia dot com, or check us out 581 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 582 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: your podcasts.