1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hey are you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind? 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: it's Saturday. Time to Revolt. Episode. This one originally aired 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: on March and it is called the Dad Joke. It's 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: about dad jokes. Uh. I almost tried to see if 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: I could improvise a dad joke. But they can't be improvised, 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: can they? They were? They require meticulous planning. That's that's right. 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: There's a certain certain art to them. So without further ado, 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: let's dive right in Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey are you welcome 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert 12 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're gonna be 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: talking dad jokes. Now, Robert, how did we end up here? So? 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about it over the weekend. Basically, 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: I is, um, I you know, dad jokes are, I 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: think a familiar concept for most of us. Um. I 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: don't remember being a named thing when I was growing up, 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: but at some point in my pre parenthood life it 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: became a thing, and even non dad's would get called 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: out for dad jokes at times. And uh. Now as 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: a as a parent, it's it's like a frequent call out, 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, not only in this house, but but I 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: I hear it with with my friends who are who 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: are parents, uh, and also among again friends who are 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: not parents. It's often a critique of someone else's joke, 26 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: often from a child or from a spouse, but sometimes 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: it's a self commentary on one's own joke. And I 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: guess I hadn't thought too much about it. I didn't like, 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't too self reflective on the concept until until 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: very recently. My my son is is eight going on nine, 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: and he's definitely at the point where he is capable 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: of sarcastic laughter for particularly punny jokes, particularly you know, 33 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: any kind of like uh perhaps too lame of an 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: attempted humor. He is liable to respond with sarcasm. And 35 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: while he won't say, oh, that's a dad joke, like, 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: clearly we are in dad joke territory. And so I 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: just started pondering, like, what does this mean? What is 38 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: the dad joke? Is the dad joke a thing? Uh? 39 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: And if it is, like, how might we um quantify it? 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: And what does it reveal about things like childhood development 41 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: or humor itself. So in your experience, what is the 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: age where where the child stops rewarding you for criminally 43 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: weak puns and and starts punishing you for them. Um, 44 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: I guess we're kind of in that territory right now. Like, 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: it's not I still get get lots of laughs. I'm 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: still pretty good. I know my audience pretty well. But 47 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm I'm rolling out more and more jokes that that 48 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: he is liable to either half laugh at or enjoy 49 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: the awfulness of the pun. Uh. And part of that, 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: I guess is him picking up on my delivery as well. Like, 51 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: if I know that it's a particularly lame joke, I'm 52 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: probably going to lean into that delivery, you know. Yeah, well, 53 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: I mean it was definitely a thing you'd see with 54 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: like Dad's on TV the when you were a kid 55 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: that like that. Yes, they embarrassed their teenage or adolescent 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: kids by telling grown worthy jokes and then get punished 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: with the dead Yeah. You know, this actually came up 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: in one of the sources I ended up looking at 59 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: for this because because after I was thinking about it, 60 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: I was like, surely I'm not the only one contemplating this, 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: and I'm certainly not. But I looked at this one article, UM, 62 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: this one post title please stop calling My humor dad 63 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: Jokes by Andrew Bourgeon. Uh. This was from twenty nineteen 64 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: published in The Washington I In and um, they basically 65 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: made two two points. And I have to stress that 66 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: this wasn't like a super serious article like he was. 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: The authors very much engaging and you know, the humorous 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: nature and the low stakes aspect of the topic. But 69 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: they did bring up the idea of ages um and 70 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: dad jokes, but also the idea that they tend to 71 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: depend Uh, some interpretations of them tend to depend on 72 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: outdated gender roles in the household, in which the mom 73 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: handles all the whole hard work around the house and 74 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: dad just kind of wanders into the room from time 75 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: to time to score an easy laugh with the kids. 76 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's the kind of thing reflected 77 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: in this sitcom model that you you're discussing here, With 78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: a lot of American sitcoms like it, it fell upon 79 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: the mom character to be the responsible one in the family, 80 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: and the dad got to be the goofball, you know, 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: the Homer Simpson right, right, Uh. So I mean not 82 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: to say there wasn't truth to the trope, but it's 83 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: probably a situation too where having this trope so readily 84 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: occur in our sitcom culture, it kind of, you know, 85 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: echoes back on us. You know, it reverberates back on 86 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: the culture itself, and we lean into it even more, 87 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So I assume at this point most 88 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: people are familiar with what a dad joke is, But 89 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: then again, I don't know. I often feel disconnected from 90 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: terms that people use in this internet age, especially since 91 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: I'm like trying not to look at the social media's 92 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: and all that. Uh. So, like for people who are 93 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: not so familiar, what makes a dad joke a dad 94 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: joke in the parlance of our times? All right, in 95 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: the parlance of our times, Dude, they are they're they're 96 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: jokes that are a bit on the lane side in 97 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: some estimates. They're often punny, and that they use puns, 98 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: and they're generally family friendly. Uh And the punch line, 99 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out how to the best phrase. 100 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: I feel like the punch line hits like a crashing 101 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: clown car, and your intended audience, like the ideal audience 102 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: that is actually going to laugh at this joke. Is 103 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: five to seven year olds. You know they're abouts um, 104 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: but that is in this is key regardless of the 105 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: current age ages of those presents. So you might be 106 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: in the you might be in the room with say 107 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: a forty something and a teenager, but you're still firing 108 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: out jokes like you have a whole room full of 109 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: five to seven year olds. Now, you mentioned that these 110 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: jokes are often puns and that they're often family friendly. 111 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: Of course, dad jokes do tend towards very much like uh, 112 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: simple word play and what might be called clean comedy. 113 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: But another tendency I've noticed in dad jokes is, I 114 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: don't even know what you'd call this, the tendency to 115 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: make a joke that is uh, that is edgy to 116 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: a really tame extent. And so this might involve, say, 117 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: references to people's butts or extremely minor crude language. So 118 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: one example cited in a New York Times article that 119 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: we're about to talk about, uh, the author mentions the 120 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: joke what has two butts and kills people an assassin? 121 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: H Okay, yeah, that it added a little edgy for 122 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: the for the young crowd. But but I mean not 123 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: to me, that's very much in the in what is 124 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: understood to be the dad joke zone, because it is 125 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: a joke that simultaneously violate some kind of taboo with 126 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: the use of the word ass, but it is an 127 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: extremely minor taboo. Yeah, I mean, for instance, Bart Simpson 128 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: would love that joke. Uh. So it's it is, it 129 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: is aimed appropriately. And yeah, there there is this tendency 130 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: oftentimes for the jokes to take on this this child's 131 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: uh scatological zone, you know that. So it's gonna involve butts, 132 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: and maybe it's gonna involve poop. There'll be more of 133 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: a tendency for poop jokes because this is something that 134 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the young folks enjoy. We can we can again think 135 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: of it as kind of the rude Bart Simpson territory 136 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: of of of joke craft. Yeah, and and lots of 137 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: lots of dad jokes are completely clean, but they've got 138 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: a special purchase on this place that we might call 139 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: the edgy side of tame. Yeah. Yeah. Now, um, one 140 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: of one other thing I want to touch on here 141 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: is that, um, obviously the terminology we're using here is 142 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: is largely gendered. But I think I tend to reject 143 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: the idea that it's distinctly injured phenomenon we were talking about, Um, 144 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't seem to be especially tied to 145 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: masculine ideas. And I'm willing to bet anything that their 146 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: parents of all identities out there that make what can 147 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: be classified as dad jokes. Oh, of course, obviously this 148 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: is something that transcends dad dumb. I do think there 149 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: must be some kind of observation of at least a 150 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: slight trend toward these kinds of jokes among dad's in particular, 151 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: but yeah, all kinds of people tell dad jokes. In fact, 152 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: the first dad joke that came to my mind, um, 153 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: when when I was thinking about this, when you said 154 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: you wanted to do this topic, was it's it's now 155 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: a legend in my in law's family. But it wasn't 156 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: a joke told by a dad, but a joke told 157 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: to a dad, And it was in fact told to 158 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: a dad by a daughter. It was something Rachel said 159 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: to her dad when they were posing for a family 160 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: photo and they were trying to get everybody to smile, 161 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: and she told the joke. You've probably heard this one before, 162 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: but I'll see where did George Washington keep his armies? 163 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. Wheed George Washington keep his armies in 164 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: his sleevies? Like, and the legend goes that that my 165 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: father in law like just laughed so hard at this 166 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: that his head nearly exploded. Yeah. I mean there's something 167 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: about a pun like that, um, which is hard. It's 168 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: hard to classify what was that a really good pun 169 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: or a really bad one? Uh, you know, because you 170 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: kind of you can kind of trip over it trying 171 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: to figure out what the connection is, Like you're trying 172 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: to like you're visualizing it. Um, You're you're thinking about history, 173 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: and it has nothing to do with any of those. 174 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: It's just you know, these association between various words. It 175 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: is just making a silly sound at the end of 176 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: a word. Yes, that's the connection. So you kind of 177 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: feel tricked by it. Uh, But you have to admire 178 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: the ingenuity of the trap as well. Like, you know, 179 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 1: it's I can laugh all day at this bear trap, 180 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: but my legs stuck in it, So I guess it's 181 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: pretty good. So I would not be surprised if research 182 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: were defined. I do not think such research exists. I 183 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: would not be surprised to find that dad are especially 184 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: prone to telling dad jokes. But it is undeniable that 185 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: dad jokes transcend the dad category. Everybody tells dad jokes. Yeah, 186 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: I would agree. Yeah, parents, nonparents, people of all ages, 187 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: people of all genders, um. But this seems to be 188 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: a way that we are as a culture classifying them today. 189 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: So again I was thinking about this over the weekend, 190 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: trying to figure out like what what it meant, and uh, 191 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: my main observation has to do with identity, importance, and 192 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: enthusiasm of the audience. So becoming a parent, in my opinion, 193 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: is is pretty much the best worst thing you can do. 194 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: It's it's not for everyone and for many great reasons, 195 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: but I can say from experience that it will at 196 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: the very least totally change the shape of whatever your 197 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: life was prior to the arrival of tiny humans or 198 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: a tiny human in your life. Nothing will be the 199 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: same again, including your humor. And a lot of this 200 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: just have to have has to do with like very 201 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: basic realities about there being a growing human in your house. 202 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: So the larval human develops, it grows, it learns, it 203 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: develops language and thinking skills, and so of course it 204 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: picks up on humor, it begins experimenting with its own humor. 205 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: It's uh, this is a process that is at times delightful, 206 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: at times arduous, but there's a lot of laughter and 207 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: you help to cultivate it. And by the way, speaking 208 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: of when, the sort of loose time frame from this, 209 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: though it varies a bit, is babies typically start laughing 210 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: between two and four months. Now. I was thinking about 211 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: this because there are obviously several different ways that having 212 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: a child in the household will change the households humor profile. 213 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: Because on one hand, babies and young children are often humorous, 214 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: like they can be the thing that is funny. Then 215 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: at a certain point, you might say it like two 216 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: to four months, they start becoming the audience for humor. 217 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,479 Speaker 1: They think things are funny. But then also they change 218 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: essentially what people are thinking about in the household, and 219 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: most humor is based on whatever is on your mind 220 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: at the time, so they will also become even if 221 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: it's not like referring to something they just did or 222 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: reacting to something they just did, baby and child humor 223 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: will sort of occupy the mind to become the subject 224 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: of a lot of humor. Yeah, yeah, there's there's there's 225 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: a lot that ends up going on there, you know, 226 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: and you know it's like they say, you know, a 227 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: little little pictures have big ears. They pick up on 228 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: so much and they end up, uh, you know, mimicking 229 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: and trying to understand the humor that you're using. For instance, 230 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: when you're you're talking to a non child. UM. So 231 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: it's it's really in half the time you're not even 232 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: really aware of what's going on, but you're kind of 233 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: all in this, uh, this this complex learning process together. Um. 234 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, it does. I feel like it does definitely 235 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: change the way you you calibrate your jokes because for me, example, 236 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: an example, um and I'd like to think that I'm 237 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: a reasonably funny person and I enjoy it when I 238 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: can genuinely make a person laugh, though like all of us, 239 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: I'll also settle for some polite laughter from someone else. 240 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: I feel like I probably had a pretty good success 241 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: rate with my humor prior to my son coming into 242 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: my life, but with with him once he reached the 243 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: point where he was because obviously a three, you know, 244 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: super young child is not really going to be able 245 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: to understand jokes. You could go up to a baby 246 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: in a scroller on the street. You could tell it 247 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: a joke and maybe you'll get a laugh out of 248 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: him if you're making a goofy enough face. But they're 249 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: not really going to pick up on the nuances of 250 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: your punchline. Right, If you want to make that that 251 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: like two to four month old baby laugh, you're you're 252 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: more in the prop comedy realm at that point. Yeah, yeah, 253 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: you're in the peak a booth stage. So that's another 254 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: thing to get to keep in mind. It's like the 255 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: barrier to humor starts, uh, you know, in a weird place, 256 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: in a very low place. Then you work up from there. 257 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: But but I would say that from the point on 258 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: at which I could actually make my my son laugh, 259 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: I suddenly had just an insanely good success rate with 260 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: this audience of one um. Generating laughter with almost every 261 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: joke was just guaranteed. And the big kicker was it 262 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: was authentic laughter every time. Because he's for the longest 263 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: he simply wasn't capable of faking laughter like it was. 264 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: You knew that if he was laughing at a joke, 265 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: he genuinely found it funny or or certainly that is 266 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: that was the impression. Very young children are not. They 267 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: haven't learned politests yet, right. Um. But one of the 268 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: reasons I was reflecting on this is because I've now 269 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: reached the point where the boy is perfectly capable of 270 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: doing a sarcastic ha ha at my lambur jokes. Um. 271 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: But I would say that period from five to seven 272 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: years of age, uh, even on up into year eight here, 273 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: this was probably the most fruitful comedic period of my life. 274 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: And and here's the kicker, I'll never have this rate 275 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: of success again. I'll never make another human being laugh 276 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: this much and laugh this consistently at my humor. Well, 277 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: in a way, like having spent that long trying to 278 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: get laughs out of a young child, you've sort of 279 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: to some degree. I mean, I'm not saying you can 280 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: never change Robert, but a person at this point has 281 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: cemented a large part of their adult brain in that mindset, 282 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: right right, And yeah, and neurologically there are reasons you 283 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: can't go back. But also it's just like, if I've 284 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: been going for that low hanging fruit dad joke for 285 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: so long and I've had such a great success rate 286 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: with it, why would I ever give it up? You know? 287 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: It's like if you're a bear and you found an 288 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: incredible food cash in a prius once, and now you're 289 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: just gonna forever target prius is even though most prius 290 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: is that you break into are not going to be 291 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: filled with groceries. You you still broke into a prius 292 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: once that had plenty of groceries, and you're never going 293 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: to forget that. So even when the sarcastic ha has 294 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: come with more, um, you're gonna come more often. I'm 295 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: probably still going to make the same jokes. And this 296 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: seems to be a big part of what's going on 297 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: with Dad jokes. Like you go through that that period 298 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: of success and then you change, like you just got 299 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: such positive rewards from this style of humor, you don't 300 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: evolve beyond it. Yeah, the the Young Child is a 301 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: kind of a skinner box and you're the rat inside it, 302 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: and it's repeatedly rewarding you for years on end for 303 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: for doing the low hanging fruit joke. And then when 304 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't work quite so well anymore, Like at that point, 305 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: can you really stop? I mean you are conditioned? Yeah, 306 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: so um. Thinking about the sarcasm aspect of this, I 307 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: I looked I looked into this a little bit, and 308 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: uh in the literature that the idea seems to be 309 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: that children begin to develop the ability to comprehend ironic 310 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: utterances around five to six years of age, so it's 311 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: a relatively late developing skill. Though this this varies a 312 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: fair amount as far as individual kids go. And I 313 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: was reading this paper from this from n by Capelli 314 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: at All titled how Children Understand Sarcasm, and this is 315 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. They point out that for an adult to 316 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: catch sarcasm, they depend on two different cues. There's context 317 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: and then there's the speakers uh intonation. So you know, 318 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: I think we can all imagine like the context situation 319 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: where I could say something that is meant to be 320 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: picked up as ironic, but I could do so in 321 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: a very flat, believable tone, you know, um. And if 322 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: you you were able to compare what I'm saying with 323 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: the situation and and or you know me, you can 324 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: you know what I'm I'm getting at um. But the 325 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: study found that the children initially depend more heavily on 326 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: intonation uh than on context and recognizing sarcasm. So that 327 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: sarcastic uh voice that you use, uh, that's key for 328 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: these younger children to being able to pick up on it. 329 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: And I feel like I found this in my own life. 330 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: If I'm going too dry with my humor, uh, it'll 331 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: often like steamroll right past boy. But if I'm making 332 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: the sarcastic voice, he's he he'll get it. And if 333 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: he's being sarcastic, oh boy, he will totally lean into 334 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: a sarcastic voice. And I feel like I've encountered that 335 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: with other kids as well, like they will really really 336 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: lay it on thick. Well, I think this ties into 337 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 1: the way that irony and sarcasm so often fail in 338 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: writing in written media. You know that, Well, I don't know. 339 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: I guess it depends on what you call fail. But 340 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: like they sometimes people fail to detect irony and sarcasm 341 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: in written media. Uh. And this is one of the 342 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: reasons that I was actually just reading about this a 343 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: while ago, thinking that it might be worth doing an 344 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: episode on the idea of ironic punctuation. You know, in 345 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: in some writing conventions, there's a way of marking a 346 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: sentence to say, like, I don't really mean what I'm 347 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: saying in this sentence, I'm saying it for humorous effect, 348 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: with like a special you know, a special like upside 349 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: down exclamation point or something like that, at the beginning 350 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: of the sentence. And it's weird because I was thinking 351 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: about that, and I was thinking, well, on one hand, 352 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: that would help clear up a lot of confusion, because 353 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: it just seems inevitable, especially if you're writing for an 354 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: audience of multiple people, that you will at some point 355 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: make a joke saying something that's the opposite of what 356 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: you really think in writing, and people, while they might 357 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: get it if you said it out loud, will will 358 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: not understand you in writing and they'll be like, how 359 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: could you say that? I don't understand you know why? 360 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: And so irony punctuation would help clear that up. But 361 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: I think it would also make those statements less funny, 362 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: Like if you mark them as a joke at the 363 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: beginning of the sentence, then is that is it actually 364 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: worth making the joke? Like will most of the audience 365 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: who would normally laugh at it actually find it funny? 366 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Yeah, it's kind of like announcing I 367 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: shall now make a pun before proceeding. Um. But then again, 368 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: I mean some languages use this, so it you know, 369 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: if it is used, it must work to some extent, 370 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: I can't judge it too much. Well, writers, remember what 371 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. If you have a character in 372 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: the third person in there being sarc plastic, you're supposed 373 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: to say, um, he said sarcastically, and then the reader 374 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: will know that this character is being sarcastic or she 375 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: said ironically. That's just good writing and being sarcastic. Um, 376 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: let's say um. Well, brings me back to this paper 377 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned from. Was that the year I think it was. 378 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: If this is correct, that there are two major cues 379 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: that people use to detect irony or sarcasm in a statement. 380 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: One is context and the other is intonation. If you're 381 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: in a written context, you can't use intonation unless you 382 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: have some kind of special punctuation or something like that 383 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: to give a you know, a visual version of intonation. 384 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: So you're down to only context. Basically you're losing half 385 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: of your tool kit for detection. Yeah. And then, of course, 386 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: in the written form, context can vanish as well. Uh so, Uh, 387 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,239 Speaker 1: I can see where one might lean on having some 388 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 1: sort of strange punctuation choice that would like forever brand 389 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: it as ironic or sarcastic. Yeah, it might be a 390 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: good idea. Yeah, whoever, whoever is in charge of English, 391 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: you know, get on that. Yes, present this to the 392 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: Board of of English. Than So, like I said, I 393 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: was thinking about this, and then I I looked around 394 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: to see who else had written about it, and I 395 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: found an excellent article from just back in twenty nineteen 396 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: in the New York Times titled A Dad Defends Dad 397 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: Jokes by author and critic Jason Zenoman. And this seemed 398 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: like a decent person to lean on because I looked. 399 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: I looked them up there about my age. Uh, they've 400 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: written a book on horror films called shock Value. So 401 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: I figured, you know, this might be my people, and 402 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: uh and yeah, Ultimately I found that a lot of 403 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: what he broke down was kind of like what I 404 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: was I was thinking about, you know, with some additional 405 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: layers as well. So I want to just roll through 406 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: some of of his key observations from this article. So 407 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: he observed that quote procreating turns men into miserable comics. Uh, 408 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: I think he's you know, he's he's joking a bit there. Um, 409 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: though I think we also have to stress that a 410 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: lot of parents were probably not particularly funny to begin 411 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: with uh. So it's it's not necessarily a situation where 412 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: something great is lost. Um. He points to a dad 413 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: joke only because this is this is interesting because I 414 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: didn't really have a good idea what the time frame was. 415 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: I figured I didn't hear about it when I was 416 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: growing up, but I didn't know exactly how old it was, uh, 417 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: he said. He points out that this term only really 418 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: comes into usage over the past decade, and then becomes 419 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: ubiquitous online in very recent years. He writes, quote, I'm 420 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: a comedy critic, so being a dad can seem like 421 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: an occupational hazard. It may be professional suicide to admit, 422 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: but since having children, I often find myself making lame 423 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: puns as well as poop jokes. So this is where 424 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: he brings up the poop jokes. And Um, I was 425 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: thinking about myself. I probably make more poop jokes now 426 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: than previously, because again, this is the material that really 427 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: zeems with kids. Now, what show me the anatomy of 428 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: a poop joke is is it just uh invoking the 429 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: concept of poop? But does it need to be poop 430 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: are referred to like out of its regular context? What 431 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: makes a good crackling poop joke. Well, most poop jokes 432 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: are not good. I find that it has to be 433 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: this perfect crossover, like a poop joke, that you are 434 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: not too ashamed of yourself, and that the child will 435 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: laugh out. The child will laugh at anything up to 436 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: a certain point, just because it has the word poop 437 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: in it, Like poop is inherently funny, um, probably in general, 438 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: but especially to the children. So for from my point, 439 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: it's like it can it isn't. It isn't an eloquent 440 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: enough poop joke that you feel okay telling it and 441 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: being the teller of this joke. You know. I was 442 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: asking because I was just thinking about a rather poopy 443 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: concept to perhaps cover on the show in the near future. 444 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 1: And it was it was the discovery of an ancient 445 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: manuscript of a commentary on Homer that had clearly been 446 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: used as toilet paper in the scient world. And it 447 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: was found that an ancient garbage dump in Egypt, but 448 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: it had poop on it. And I don't know, yeah, 449 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: I mean maybe so we did the episode on the Pardonomicon, 450 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: so I don't think anything it's sacred anymore. Um, but 451 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: maybe see that's not a joke, that's just like, well, 452 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: here's an ancient document that was pooped on. So I 453 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: don't know if that would fly with kids, or maybe 454 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: it would. Would you say, here's a here's an ancient 455 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: document and somebody wiped their butt with it. Would that 456 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: be funny enough? I mean at a certain age probably yeah. 457 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: But then again, are the kids going to pick up 458 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: on the weight of if you're talking about like the 459 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: works of Homer and stuff, So uh yeah, I'm not sure. Uh, 460 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: that's a whole probably a whole domain of humor theory, 461 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: just regarding poop jokes. Now, I did think that the 462 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: author here has him and really nailed it with this line. 463 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: He says, quote, like so many lazy comics, we parents pander. 464 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: If jokes work, then they stay set. Gradually we become 465 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: hooked on cheap laughs. Some of some of us even 466 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: delude ourselves into thinking we are actually funny. And he 467 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: points out that once this setting is obtained, it does 468 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: not evolve, but the children, of course do evolve. And 469 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: uh yeah, this totally rings true with what I'm beginning 470 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: to experience now, Like, uh, and it goes beyond joke 471 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: telling because I think of all the various references that 472 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: my wife and I make in you know, regarding things 473 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: that my son once said or once observed or once did. Um. 474 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: And they're almost all things that he does not say 475 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 1: anymore or does not do anymore, in many cases does 476 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: not remember, so he can't even pick up on the reference. 477 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: And you know, except he's heard us talk about it. 478 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: But they were like they were so near and dear 479 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: to our hearts um. And sometimes they sum up an 480 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,719 Speaker 1: idea really well, at least for us. Uh. And I 481 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: imagine I'm gonna probably keep making these references for the 482 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: rest of my life, like uh. For example, he used 483 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: to say things like so is me instead of so 484 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: am I? You know which is it's kids. There's a 485 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: lot of stuff with kids like that, Right, they say 486 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: something wrong and it's adorable. It's anny is at least 487 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: as long as you're connected to them. Um. Or Another 488 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: example was he used to talk about uh if he 489 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: was describing the temperature, he might say it was super 490 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: a little bit hot, or if it was dark outside 491 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: of super a little bit dark. Or he would overuse 492 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: and misuse the word crazed. And so these are just 493 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: a few examples of things that I can't let go 494 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: and I'm probably gonna keep referencing them even though they 495 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: have no connection even to who he is right now, 496 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: much less who he will become. Oh, I love super 497 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: a little bit hot. That's like, uh when when a 498 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: kid at any point saying they're hungry, they're saying, I'm 499 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: a little bit starving. Yeah, yeah, that's sort of thing 500 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: like that's that's the very sort of thing that a 501 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: kid would say, and and you ended up lashing onto it. 502 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: Um so uh yeah, I feel like Zenoman totally totally 503 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: gets it right there. But it sounds like Zenomon is saying, 504 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: and to some extent, you're also saying, the issue is that, 505 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: like the child gets older in their sense of humor evolves, 506 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: but the parent is inherently kind of stuck in the 507 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: older mode of what has worked before. And and this 508 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: mirrors other things that happened of course in like parent 509 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: child relationships, Like you know, I know a lot of 510 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: tension as kids get into like adolescent and teenage years. 511 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: Is like parents exercising a level of sort of management 512 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: and protectiveness that would have been more appropriate to a 513 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: child at a younger age, or so the teenager thinks, 514 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: and you know, the teenager that thinks like that, you know, 515 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: you are still treating me as if I'm younger and 516 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: I don't, and I rebel against that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 517 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: I think absolutely. Um there's also and there's anything gets 518 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: into this a bit too. There's you know, they're there's 519 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: certainly uh. He discusses the mockery, the mockery thing, um, 520 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: the idea that that we that dad's then continue to 521 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: use dad jokes as a way to kind of uh, 522 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: you know, get a rise out of the child, and 523 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: then the child kind of mocks them for using that humor. 524 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 1: But he also gets into this idea that um, that 525 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: it's a lot of it's tied up with with nostalgia. 526 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: So first of all, there's of course the nostalgia for 527 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: when your child was younger and they laughed at everything 528 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: you said. Uh, and you're the funniest person on earth. 529 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: But also, um, he says that that basically dad jokes 530 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: give us permission to joke like children again, uh, you know, 531 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: just to give us permission to make these kind of 532 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, lame short, you know, not too not too 533 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: deep jokes that are that are you know, usually pretty tame. Um. 534 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: And it's I feel like it's part of that larger 535 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: trend in the way that parenthood gives one permission to 536 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: a point to think and dream like a child again 537 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: because you dream with them, you introduced them to the 538 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: stuff that filled your childhood engage, and and you yourself 539 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: get to engage with all of it again. Um. Like, 540 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: I mean example for that with with that for me 541 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: would be like Star Wars. I introduced my son to 542 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: Star Wars. He got super into it, and I would 543 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: say I probably got more into it than I had 544 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: ever been in my life, Like even more than I 545 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: was when I was a kid, because I am experiencing 546 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: it through him. Now I witnessed this just through you, 547 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: like you you went through a Star Wars renaissance in 548 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: the past four years. Yeah, yeah, And um and it's 549 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't think it would have taken place without him. 550 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: I mean maybe it would have. You know, people still 551 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: go on these various nostalgia cycles and um, and I 552 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: certainly do that with things that have no connection to 553 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: my son. Um but uh, but but but I can 554 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: definitely see how how parents it plays into it. So 555 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: so yeah, nostalgis seems to be a big point. And 556 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: then he also points out the puns one thing about puns, though, 557 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: is that puns are in and of themselves pretty great. 558 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: You don't have to be a parent or a dad 559 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: or what have you to really enjoy puns. Uh. Shakespeare 560 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: made use of puns, and I can think of plenty 561 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: of of of adults, parents and non appearance alike who 562 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: go crazy for a good pun. I feel like the 563 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: adult pun market, though, tends to skew more towards uh, 564 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: rewarding puns that violate some taboo beyond just the standard 565 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: understood definition or use of a word. Like a lot 566 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: of adult puns are also sort of vulgar or edgy 567 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: in some way. Yeah, and certainly true of a lot 568 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare puns. Yeah, yeah, in a way. Though. I 569 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: think that's one of the things that makes things like um, 570 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: where did Washington keep his h his his armies? Like? 571 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: One of the reasons that works so well and it 572 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: sticks with me so well, is because most comedy aimed 573 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: at adults by adults, Uh, Isn't you know it's gonna 574 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: go for those those cheaper laughs and those edgy or laughs, 575 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: and so your your defenses are down for these sort 576 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: of weapons. It's kind of like in um in frank 577 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: Herbert's doone where they have the self protective shields and 578 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: you can't fire a bullet through it, and you can't 579 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: like quickly stabbed through it. You have to go slow. 580 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: It's like that's kind of how the the tame humor 581 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: can be. It's like, I had my defenses were not 582 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: designed for a blade this slow, and now you have 583 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: stabbed me in the heart. The dad joke is in 584 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: a way the weirding module. It trains you on the 585 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: slow knife combat of of pun humor. Yeah. Um. Now, 586 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: another thing that the Zoman got into that I thought 587 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: was interesting was touching on when you get into this 588 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: area where a dad or you know, a parent is 589 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: making this dad joke, this this kind of lame joke 590 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: that then it lects size and groans from everyone in 591 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: the room. You're also getting into the area of of 592 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: cringe comedy here, um, which which I think is a 593 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: is a good point, Like we don't necessarily think of, 594 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: say the Office as being dad jokes and dad humor, 595 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of that there. I mean, 596 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: the character of Michael Scott, for example, engaged in a 597 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: lot of this making like really bad of jokes, really 598 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: lame attempts at humor and u and it was hilarious. 599 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: We loved it. Well, yeah, that kind of cringe comedy, 600 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: like the comedy that's based in witnessing something somebody do 601 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: something incredibly embarrassing and like just fail in front of 602 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: an audience. It's a weird kind of mixture of humor, 603 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: and it's something that feels like it's simultaneously relatively wholesome 604 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: and doesn't have to get into you know, like like 605 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: raunchy content, but at the same time feels absolutely as 606 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: dangerous as like the most raunchy blue comedy, just because 607 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: it's so like painful. It's like emotionally visceral to watch 608 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: embarrassment based humor. Yeah, yeah, um. Now, speaking of stand 609 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: up when when Zannaman got into this idea as well 610 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: that you know that the dad joke is generally not 611 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: only tame, it's also very lean, you know, it's it's 612 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't take much time to tell, it's not complicated. 613 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: This reminded me a lot of the stand up comedy 614 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: of the late Mitch Hedberg, but also some of the 615 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: I guess a lot of the comedy of Stephen Wright. 616 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: Not to say that those uh, those two engaged in 617 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: and really straightforward dad jokes, but a lot of it 618 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: was very short, um, A lot of it was ultimately 619 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: very clean, uh, very silly, you know, in a in 620 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: their their own way, I mean, right, is certainly very dry. Uh. 621 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: But whereas like like Hedberg, I feel like he was 622 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: an interesting case because he kind of got away with 623 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: it because they have this cool, stoner persona, but he's 624 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: essentially in many cases just doing like kind of dad 625 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: jokes and I guess, you know, sometimes it's a little 626 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: lunear than that. And Stephen Wright has this very extremely 627 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: dry delivery and it's based uh uh you know, and 628 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a weirdness. Um. But you could 629 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: look at this dad jokes as being just kind of 630 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: like the latest most popular way to categorize a kind 631 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: of style of joke telling that maybe isn't um, you know, 632 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: the main fashion right now, but hasn't been more fashionable 633 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: in the in the past, and is still utilized well 634 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: by certain practitioners of comedy. Yeah, the self contained one 635 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: liner seems important here, though I wonder if some I mean, 636 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I have the wrong sense about this. 637 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: Uh So, a lot of like Mitch Hedberg type jokes. 638 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: A lot of them seem to hinge on a kind 639 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: of absurdity, which I don't know how well it translates 640 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: to kids or not. I think about his joke where 641 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: he says, um, rice is a great food if you 642 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: ever want to eat a thousand of something. I find 643 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: that funny. Is that funny to kids? Maybe? Um, I mean, 644 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: I don't know about that particular joke, but maybe, like 645 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: kids have, kids are great at absurdity, Like kids are 646 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: a font of absurdity. Um. I mean that's one of 647 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: the reasons they can be They can be so amusing 648 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: to be around. Um, so so very possible. I mean 649 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: that one's I mean, I'm not even sure if I 650 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: could put my finger on what it is that's funny 651 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: about that one. I guess it's just imagining the possibility 652 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: of eating a thousand hamburgers or a thousand of anything else. Yeah, yeah, 653 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: I agree, It's just it's it's absurd. Um. It turns 654 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: something every day on its head and makes you and 655 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: like makes it weird. Uh. So that's I feel like 656 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: a I will have to try this one on my 657 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: son later and report back. I'm not gonna let him 658 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: watch a whole set of Mitch Hedberg. But maybe I'll 659 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: bust out a few Mitch Hedberg and a little Steven 660 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: Right and see see how he reacts, see which one 661 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: he likes. Bet Thank Okay, Well, I thought one way 662 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: to to try to bring some structure UH to this 663 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: idea would be to think about theories of humor. Now, 664 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: even this is is still going to be a little 665 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: bit loose, because there's clearly not one agreed upon um 666 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: theory that explains the role of humor in biological organisms. 667 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: We we've talked about this in the past, but so 668 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: there are different attempts that psychologists UH and cognitive scientists 669 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: have put forward in trying to explain why we laugh 670 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: at things like what's actually happening in the brain, what 671 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: is humor in a biological sense? And UH, I think 672 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: the place where most recently we went into depth on 673 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: this subject was in our two part series called Flat 674 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: a Sex Makina, which was about why it's funny when 675 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: machines fail, where we talked about neural net generated text, 676 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: which was a lot of fun. We talked about like 677 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: D and D characters and spells and stuff created by 678 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: neural networks. But that we also talked about about like 679 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: scenes where like robots fail in movies like ED two 680 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 1: O nine in RoboCop, which is down the stairs. Yeah. Um. 681 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: But so in that context we were trying to figure out, Okay, well, well, 682 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: how does this fit into these mainstream hypotheses about what 683 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: is going on in the body and the brain and 684 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: our evolutionary history to generate this concept of humor? Why 685 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: are things funny? Why does it feel funny? Why do 686 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: we laugh? And so forth? And so there are a 687 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: bunch of ideas on this. We're not going to get 688 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: into all of them, certainly, not in depth, but I 689 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: just wanted to mention a few one that came up, 690 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: I think from a biologist or zoologist that we were 691 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: reading that time, But it was the idea of laughter 692 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: as a form of play signaling, and I thought that 693 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: this idea had some purchase, so it was pretty interesting. 694 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: So the idea here would be that laughing is actually 695 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: a kind of communicative mechanism to distinguish playful aggression from 696 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: genuine aggression. So if you ever watch dogs fighting, they 697 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: can be making all kinds of growling sounds and knocking 698 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: each other over and all that. But you can still 699 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: pretty easily tell fun fighting from real fighting by the 700 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: dog's posture. Like when a dog is having fun, it'll 701 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: like put its butt up in the air in the 702 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 1: front of its body down and wag its tail, and 703 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: so they can be fighting. But you know, we know 704 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: everybody's having a good time. Yeah, you can definitely tell 705 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: from their body language when they're they're dead serious and 706 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: when it's it's play. Yeah, And so the idea would be, well, 707 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: maybe in in primates like us, laughter play some kind 708 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: of similar role. It is a it's a mechanism like 709 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: the wagging tail to signal mutual communication between parties that 710 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: something that's going on that might be interpreted in one way, 711 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: maybe in a dangerous way, is actually just to be 712 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: interpreted in a humorous way, in a fun way, that 713 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: everything's okay. And so it discourages misinterpretation of mock aggression. 714 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: And I can certainly see something to this because it 715 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: is it is undeniable, like this this natural thing that 716 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: happens that when kids like wrestle for fun or they're 717 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: just playing around, it results in laughter. You know, this 718 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: makes me think about tone and contact with sarcasm again, 719 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: because there I've certainly had this experience where I've I've 720 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: told I've made a dry joke that that it is 721 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: supposed to be a joke, but I did it so 722 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: dryly that that my son doesn't catch it at first, 723 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: and then I have to explain to him, no, no, no, 724 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm not serious. Um you know, not that he's upset, 725 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: but he's like, really, that's really gonna happen, Like he 726 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: completely falls for it. And then I feel a little 727 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: bit bad because my main job here is not to 728 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: make jokes. It's it's to raise a child that knows 729 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: how the world works, or has some reasonable knowledge of 730 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: how the world works. And so maybe I want, I 731 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: wonder this is I have nothing to back this up, 732 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: but maybe parents end up leaning more on tone. They 733 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: pick up on on the fact that they need that 734 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: tone to understand the joke, and so you just lean 735 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: into it more and more, and you keep leaning into 736 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: it until you're just a complete hack. Yeah that's interesting. 737 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: I didn't think about it like that, but yeah, because 738 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: tone would be so important in in establishing this kind 739 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: of relationship with a kid. Yeah, Like why does why 740 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: does dad basically put clown makeup on every time he 741 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: makes a joke. Well, because he feels like he needs 742 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: to signal that he is not telling you how the 743 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: world worked. He's just trying to make a joke about 744 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: the world. I have nothing to back that up, but 745 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm just just just, uh, you know, um brainstorming here. No, 746 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: I think there's something really too that we we should 747 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: keep that in mind. Um. Now on on the other hand, 748 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: as we talked about the last time this came up 749 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: in that Machine Comedy episode, Uh, there are obviously ways 750 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: in which all of these major theories don't seem to 751 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: account for some types of laughter and some types of humor, 752 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,919 Speaker 1: which makes me think, you know, it could very well 753 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: be that multiple theories of humor could simultaneously be partially 754 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: correct and explaining different types of laughter. I mean, we 755 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: can't rule out that laughter could have different biological causes 756 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: converging on the same external behavior, much in the same 757 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: way that like multiple extremely different, you know, biological causes 758 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: can result in an elevated heart rate. Maybe multiple totally 759 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,959 Speaker 1: different biological causes, uh that you know, have different evolutionary 760 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: pathways of development could eventually converge on the same type 761 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: of body response, which is the pleasure of humor. In 762 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: the brain and the external behavior of laughing that that's possible. 763 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: So maybe each of these explanations has some part of 764 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: the truth. But the reason you would need to say 765 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: that is that, like some of these ex nations don't 766 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: really seem like they would cover certain types of humor, 767 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: like especially play signaling. I mean, does how would that 768 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: really affect something like puns? It seems kind of hard 769 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: to figure that out. Yeah. Now, another major explanation of 770 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: what's going on when when people experience the feeling of 771 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: humor is what's known as benign violation theory. One study 772 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: we talked about in the past having to do with 773 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: this was by Peter A. McGraw and Caleb Warren called 774 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: Benign Violations Making Immoral Behavior Funny, published in Psychological Science 775 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: in two thousand ten, and this study looked at the 776 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: idea of humor as some kind of violation of norms 777 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: that is recognized by the person who finds it funny 778 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: as not actually very harmful. Uh So, the example they 779 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: used in their study was they they confronted people with 780 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: a news story about a church that had raffled off 781 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,879 Speaker 1: a hummer suv as part of a motion for its 782 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: members for the church goers. And so the thinking here 783 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 1: is that obviously to some people, that's going to be 784 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: kind of a funny idea, right, Like doing a sort 785 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: of secular like car giveaway at a church would seem 786 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: to in some way undermine the sanctity of the church. 787 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: And they they figured under their theory, well that maybe 788 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: church goers would find this story less funny because they 789 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: would see this violation of the sanctity of the church 790 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: as more actually harmful than non churchgoers would and they 791 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't find it as funny if humor is indeed based 792 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: on the idea of a benign violation, and that is 793 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,280 Speaker 1: what they claimed to find in this study. They found 794 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: that churchgoers and non churchgoers were both about equally disgusted 795 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 1: with the idea of a church giving away a car, 796 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: but they found that non churchgoers found the story more 797 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: humorous than churchgoers did, so I think it was like 798 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,839 Speaker 1: nine percent to sixty two percent. So the idea would 799 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: be that non churchgoers saw this as a benign violation, 800 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: churchgoers saw it as a real harmful violation. And in 801 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 1: that other episode, we we talked about a bunch of 802 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: reasons why this might and might not work to explain 803 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: certain types of humor, Like, there are a lot of 804 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: things that are clearly benign types of violations that just 805 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: aren't funny. But then again, a lot of the things 806 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: that are funny are some type of benign violation. You 807 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: could see easily how you could make them not funny 808 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: by either making them not a violation at all, or 809 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: by making them such a violation that they actually hurt someone. Yeah. Yeah, 810 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: in the past, I've definitely seen the nine violation theory 811 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: being one that that feels feels accurate, like I can 812 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: I can feel it feels like that's what's going on 813 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,280 Speaker 1: in various jokes. But again, I would be hesitant to 814 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: to assign all humor to this one theory. Yeah, this 815 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: seems to me like one that maybe sort of grasping 816 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: in the right direction, But but that might not have 817 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: the full con Who are is of exactly what makes 818 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: something funny or not? Because there are the I mean, 819 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: there are plenty of cases where things are clearly truly 820 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: harmful and people still find them funny. Like sometimes even 821 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: against your better judgment, like you might, something might happen 822 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 1: that is clearly harmful in one way or another, and 823 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: you find it funny, even though you feel like you 824 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: shouldn't and you feel bad for finding it funny. Yeah, 825 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: but but sometimes they are funnier, like knowing that everyone 826 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: is okay. Like I've seen that that disclaimer placed in 827 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: front of the sharing of various like amusing video clips 828 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: these days, where it will be stressed everybody was fine, 829 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: nobody was actually killed or seriously wounded in what you're 830 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: about to see. Therefore you have you have license to 831 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,919 Speaker 1: actually laugh at it. Now, there's another one we talked 832 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: about just briefly in that other episode that was called 833 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: the incongruity resolution theory, and essentially that says, when there 834 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: is an a mismatch between expectation and reality, you expect 835 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: things to be one way, but then there's something different. 836 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: Laughter occurs when we realize that this incongruity can be resolved. 837 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: So that's another way of framing something that is in 838 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: some ways kind of similar. But there's one last one 839 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about that I've been thinking about 840 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: more and more since we discussed in since we talked 841 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: about it in in that Plato s X Market episode. 842 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: And this is thinking about laughter from an evolutionary perspective. 843 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: So one of the things that is really notable about 844 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,879 Speaker 1: laughter is it's not just an external behavior. Laughter is pleasurable, 845 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: it feels good. You like specifically seek out stimuli to 846 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,320 Speaker 1: make yourself laugh, just in the same way you would 847 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,839 Speaker 1: seek out like delicious food. It feels good and you 848 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: want it to keep happening. Uh. Usually, pleasure is a 849 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: biological reward. The brain delivers itself pleasure in response to 850 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,280 Speaker 1: an activity that provides some kind of direct or indirect 851 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: benefit to survival or reproduction. And these of course, you know, 852 00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,919 Speaker 1: in the case of direct benefits, you can think about 853 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: the obvious stuff, you know, food, food tastes good because 854 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: you need it to give yourself energy and survive. Or 855 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 1: it can be much more abstract, like socializing with others 856 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: can feel really good, and that's pretty clearly explicable, and 857 00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: that it's the strengthening of social bonds and uh informing 858 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, tighter relationships between yourselves and other people, which 859 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: which gives you more of a support structure, makes you 860 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: less vulnerable. Or you could think about the sense of 861 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,320 Speaker 1: accomplishment you get from completing a task. So if laughter 862 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: is an adaptation that provides not just an external behavior 863 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: but an internal pleasure reward, what is it rewarding? And 864 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: one answer that I that I came across to this 865 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: is that what if it's the brain rewarding itself for 866 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: performing a debugging procedure? Basically, uh, And this was an 867 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: idea explored in a two thousand eleven book from M I. T. 868 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 1: Press called Inside Jokes by Matthew Hurley, Daniel Dinnett, and 869 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: Reginald Adams to year And I have not read this book, 870 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 1: but I've read some summaries of the argument they make, 871 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: and essentially it is that humor is a pleasurable reward. 872 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: It's the you know, the reward inside the brain that 873 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: we get when we recognize the inappropriateness of a mental representation. 874 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: So in this all jokes basically have some form of 875 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,720 Speaker 1: set up and punchline. Uh. The setup sort of puts 876 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: you in a state of mind to establish an inappropriate 877 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 1: or unrealistic mental representation, and then the punchline kind of 878 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: suddenly creates that inappropriate or incongruous mental representation. And then 879 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: what happens immediately after is that you suddenly figure out 880 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: what's wrong with the representation that's in your brain. So 881 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,399 Speaker 1: in the Armies and Sleevies example, uh, you know, it's 882 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: like you suddenly have that moment where you realize, oh, oh, 883 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: I see, yes, armies in this is just referring to arms, 884 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: and that is not how grammar works. You you don't 885 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: actually say ease at the end of every noun. But 886 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: then the brain rewards you for going through that process 887 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: of debugging the problematic representation in your brain by giving 888 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,799 Speaker 1: you this pleasurable feeling of humor that is in some 889 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: ways analogous to the pleasure that you would get from 890 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: eating delicious food or sleeping or something like that. And 891 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: so this really gets my brain going because I wonder 892 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: about this debugging interpretation. Obviously, you know, I think this 893 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 1: would have its critics as well, like all of these 894 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: ideas do. But I wonder if you could see evidence 895 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: for this debugging interpretation in the special kinds of humor 896 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 1: that are especially effective with little kids but start getting 897 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,680 Speaker 1: groans once the kids get older. Is a young brain 898 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 1: in a more frantic debugging phase? Is it? You know, 899 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,239 Speaker 1: is the young brain more apt to make an inappropriate 900 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: mental representation and then get a lot of pleasure from 901 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: figuring out no, that's not how words work or something 902 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,880 Speaker 1: like that? And uh, is it is it also is 903 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 1: the young brain more susceptible to bugs of this kind 904 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: in the first place? You know, will will you sort 905 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,840 Speaker 1: of fall for the set up and punchline in a 906 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: way that makes the debugging possible? No, yeah, I can 907 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 1: I could see that, Uh, that playing a role here. Yeah, 908 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: you're you're When the sitcom dad wanders into the room 909 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: and tells a joke, he's not just trying to get 910 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,319 Speaker 1: some cheap laughs. He is debugging the children's brains. He 911 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,759 Speaker 1: is uh, he is helping them sort out, uh, some 912 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 1: possible errors in their cognition by basically presenting them with 913 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:40,360 Speaker 1: with little um, little thought puzzles, little thought experiments that 914 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 1: they have to instantly deal with. I mean this does 915 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: kind of go along with another aspect of humor, which 916 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,720 Speaker 1: is that humor often kind of gives you a little 917 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,279 Speaker 1: bit of a feeling of being smart. Have you ever 918 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: noticed this, Like when when you laugh at something and 919 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 1: something you find something very funny. In the back of 920 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: your mind, there's almost kind of a little like, yeah, 921 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: you're pretty smart, you're a genius. Yeah. Yeah. To to 922 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,160 Speaker 1: get a joke, to laugh at a joke is to 923 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,879 Speaker 1: sync up with the mind of the comedian that it's 924 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 1: telling it or or has written the joke, and uh, yeah, 925 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: I could see that. Yeah, I can see that interpretation 926 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: for sure. I'm super a little bit smart. Yeah, pretty much. 927 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 1: Um yeah, Okay, I like this this interpretation. Yeah, and 928 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 1: it makes me wonder if this is this is part 929 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: of it as well. But it also makes me wonder 930 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: about Um, I guess this came up a little bit earlier, 931 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 1: but you know, can we understand how dad jokes work 932 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 1: by looking at when they really do not work? You 933 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: know that period where I guess the kid gets to 934 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,319 Speaker 1: adolescents or whatever, at age whatever age it is, where 935 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: they start to really groan at dad's dad jokes or 936 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: at anybody's dad jokes and and say, Dad, you know, like, 937 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: what exactly has changed that is failing there? And does 938 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: that tell us about what worked with the jokes originally? Well, 939 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,040 Speaker 1: I mean, if we were to roughly compare it to say, 940 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: a child getting ready to leave the house at a 941 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: younger age, they need a lot of help and reminding 942 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, a lot of nagging to get 943 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,279 Speaker 1: to get it done. Are your pants on the are 944 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: you wearing the right shirt? Is it buttoned up? Properly, 945 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: let me see your hair. Um. And as they get 946 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,840 Speaker 1: older there, you know, ideally they're they're doing more and 947 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: more of this themselves, and they might take a front 948 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: at you, uh, interjecting yourself and saying, I think you 949 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,560 Speaker 1: need to rebutton that shirt, or I'm not sure that 950 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 1: that hair looks completely combed, etcetera. So maybe something somewhere 951 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 1: is going on with the debugging of their brain with 952 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,879 Speaker 1: puns and bad jokes. Is that you're saying, uh, let 953 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: me see that brain of yours for a second, I'm 954 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,360 Speaker 1: not sure I got all the bugs, And they're like, Dad, 955 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: I got you got all the bugs. There are no 956 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,799 Speaker 1: bugs left, but maybe there are. You know, that's why 957 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,720 Speaker 1: you keep at it. You know, I'm thinking about another 958 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: interpretation of uh. What could be a possible reason that 959 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,960 Speaker 1: parents keep telling grown inducing jokes as their kids get 960 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 1: older and start being like the awful mom, dad don't talk? 961 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 1: You know that that's that's the worst. Is that a 962 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: lot of times what can be frustrating. I think about 963 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,399 Speaker 1: interacting with somebody who's like a teenager is like sort 964 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,839 Speaker 1: of low affect in in many different directions, you know, 965 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: just kind of like inability to give much of a 966 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 1: response in any direction, and so getting a very very clear, 967 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: gross kind of emotional response in the form of a 968 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 1: grown at a really really painful pun in a way 969 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 1: that is a big reaction, right, you know, at a 970 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: time when maybe a lot of kids are just like 971 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,880 Speaker 1: not reacting enough. I don't know if that makes any sense, 972 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 1: you know it totally does? You know, Like there's this 973 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: uh you know, I don't. I only have limited experience 974 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,360 Speaker 1: with with like the junior high end teenager set, but 975 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,800 Speaker 1: but you know from from interacting with with niece and nephew, 976 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,280 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, they're at times there can be that feeling 977 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,400 Speaker 1: of like all right there in their own own little world, 978 00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,279 Speaker 1: you know either uh you know, completely absorbed by their 979 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,960 Speaker 1: their phone and what have you. Uh. So maybe you're 980 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,520 Speaker 1: not going to get a laughter laughter out of them, 981 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,200 Speaker 1: but if you can get that grown, if you can 982 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 1: get their eyes to roll, at least they're listening to you, 983 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, at least you've made some connection and it 984 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 1: probably ties back into you can make an easy analogy 985 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,240 Speaker 1: to stand up comedy, right like you, I guess you ideally, 986 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,600 Speaker 1: if you can't be the comedian who's just getting you know, 987 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: an uproar of laughter. At least if you could get 988 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 1: the the opposite, that would be something. If you could 989 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,160 Speaker 1: get like the Andy Kaufman um kind of response right 990 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,840 Speaker 1: where you're just enraging the audience and you know, and 991 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: you're making them feel something. You're still working the comedy, 992 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:42,640 Speaker 1: but you're you're going after a different emotional response. It 993 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 1: comes back to the idea that that perhaps dad jokes 994 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,960 Speaker 1: are just a one way of thinking about a particular 995 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,480 Speaker 1: type of humor, that that is, um, is desirable in 996 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,520 Speaker 1: and of itself, outside of any kind of uh parental context. 997 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,279 Speaker 1: And you know, just as this this, you know, used 998 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: to be more popular here as a mainstream form of comedy. Um, 999 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's still going to find an audience 1000 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 1: today again in part perhaps because your your guard is 1001 00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:12,719 Speaker 1: down to that that slow moving comedic knife. I was 1002 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,760 Speaker 1: just trying to look up the name of the martial 1003 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,320 Speaker 1: art that you do with the knives in Dune. I 1004 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:18,719 Speaker 1: don't think it has a name, but there are the 1005 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,920 Speaker 1: Chris knives in Dune. Yeah, to get past the Holtzman shields. Yeah, 1006 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,760 Speaker 1: this is just the way you try and stab somebody 1007 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: with the Holtzman shield But I had forgotten about this 1008 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: detail as well. Apparently you can't use lace guns or 1009 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 1: Holtzman shields on Iracus because the energy field created by 1010 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 1: them attracts sandworms. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that that's 1011 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,239 Speaker 1: that's right. I still need a part of me wants 1012 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,759 Speaker 1: to reread the first book again, and now I have 1013 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,439 Speaker 1: more time in anticipation of the of the movie when 1014 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,800 Speaker 1: it comes out this fall. Uh So, I don't know. 1015 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,359 Speaker 1: I'm trying to decide on that, or maybe I should 1016 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: read it to the Boy. I can't decide when is 1017 00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 1: the boy old enough for Dune? I don't know, like 1018 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,520 Speaker 1: there because there's a lot of heady st up in there, 1019 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,560 Speaker 1: but there's also a basic adventure story, you know, about 1020 00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,440 Speaker 1: a young person coming up in the world. Um, there 1021 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,879 Speaker 1: is a lot of brutal violence and treachery, true, but 1022 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,279 Speaker 1: you know, ultimately you find that in every everything. There's 1023 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of kids literature that has 1024 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: a lot of betrayal and violence in it. Okay, what 1025 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,840 Speaker 1: we need is like an age chart that maps response 1026 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: to dad jokes with us with a receptivity to Dune 1027 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,640 Speaker 1: and like where that coincides. All right, But before we 1028 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,319 Speaker 1: close that, I do want to mention one cool dad joke, 1029 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,560 Speaker 1: if that is even a thing that sounds like an 1030 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,520 Speaker 1: actually moron perhaps, But this was provided by Andrew Bourgeon 1031 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 1: in that nineteen article in the Washingtonian. Uh, this is 1032 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,080 Speaker 1: out it goes. When does a bad joke become a 1033 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:54,840 Speaker 1: dad joke? I give up when it's a parent very nice? 1034 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,879 Speaker 1: All right, We're gonna go ahead and close this one out. 1035 00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,799 Speaker 1: But obviously we'd love to hear from everybody out there. 1036 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:04,280 Speaker 1: What is your experience with the so called dad joke? Um? 1037 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: You know, what's what's your take on it, your experience 1038 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,000 Speaker 1: with it on the receiving end, on the giving end. Um. 1039 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,680 Speaker 1: We loved, we loved for everyone to chime in on this, 1040 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,680 Speaker 1: so uh do let us know. In the meantime, if 1041 00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,200 Speaker 1: you want to check out other episodes of Stuff to 1042 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,719 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind, including those that we referenced earlier about 1043 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,719 Speaker 1: humor and teasing and so forth, you can find them 1044 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast, you know, the Stuff to 1045 00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,680 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind podcast feed. We've got core episodes on 1046 00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 1: science and culture that come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 1047 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,960 Speaker 1: On Monday's, we have a listener mail. On Wednesday's we 1048 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,280 Speaker 1: usually have an artifact unless it's been preempted by something. 1049 00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,840 Speaker 1: And on Friday's that's when we do Weird House Cinema, 1050 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,680 Speaker 1: where we leave most of the science on the shelf 1051 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,120 Speaker 1: instead focus on some sort of a weird picture. Uh. 1052 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:51,760 Speaker 1: And then we have a Vault episode on the weekend 1053 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,480 Speaker 1: that's a rerun. Huge thanks as always to our excellent 1054 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,560 Speaker 1: audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to 1055 00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,840 Speaker 1: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode 1056 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest topic for the future, just 1057 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 1: to say hello, you can email us at contact at 1058 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:15,399 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow 1059 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more 1060 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,680 Speaker 1: podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1061 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.