1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: and speaker. 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: love our careers and our families. 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life. 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: episode is airing in mid April of twenty twenty five. 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: We are going to be talking about RTO that is 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: returning to work. Five years after the pandemic began, a 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: number of organizations have started to get people back into 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: the office more frequently and if several have issued mandates 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: that people be there five days a week, which is 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: even different than pre pandemic, when a lot of people 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: had worked from home Fridays. So you know, we are 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: going to devote this episode to strategies that might make 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: life feel better, more doable, time in the office feel 21 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: more useful. If you are working somewhere that has started 22 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: requiring your presence in the office a little bit more frequently. 23 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: Before we begin, Sarah, are you ready for a little 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: soapbox moment? 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: Yes, I think this is an opportune time for a 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: I don't know trademark Laura Vandercam soapbox rant segment. 27 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: And you wrote it. 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: It's really eloquent and I'm going to let you just 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: roll with it. 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: Yes, So my thoughts on our too, I mean, highbred 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: and remote work was honestly one of the best and 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: probably the only good thing to come out of the pandemic. 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: It's kind of ridiculous that we are even doing this episode. 34 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: And I have seen this over the years as I 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: have studied workplace I mean, particularly in the pre COVID era, 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: when a lot of workplaces I mean people would tell 37 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: you like, oh, we just can't work from home. It 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: might work for other people, but it never worked for 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: our organization. I Mean. The truth is, some people in 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: power do not like remote work because they like to 41 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: feel powerful and have people acting deferential to them in 42 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: the office and being in a space where it is 43 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: very clear that you have a bigger and fancier office 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: than other people, and you have the status and there 45 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: are all these hordes of people working for you that 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: you are seeing presiding over them like a king over 47 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: his subjects. It has very little to do with productivity. 48 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean people will listen to that and then wax 49 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: eloquent about face to face work and the wonderful things 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: that happen face to face. And I totally agree, Like 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Sarah and I love to get together when we can. 52 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: This is the first episode in a while that wasn't 53 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: recorded in her closet, with us sitting two inches from 54 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: each other sharing a microphone, like it's a lot of 55 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: fun to do things to gather in person. That said, 56 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: this is not an either or matter, because forty hours 57 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: a week in the same cubicle with the exact same 58 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: people can totally be overkill. There's much to be said 59 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: for a balance of both, with people treated as an 60 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: adults and knowledge work judged based on outcomes, not time 61 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: in a seat. And yes, that is so much harder 62 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: to manage. I get that. I am a person who 63 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: manages people as well. But the upsides are great because 64 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: there's no reason for people to be wasting time and 65 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: money and gas if they are just going to email 66 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and call other people on a particular day, and it's 67 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: also great for organizations to be able to hire people 68 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: from outside a sixty minute radius of the office. One 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: more part of this rant, which is that if you 70 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: are working somewhere where they have claimed that people just 71 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: can't work from home, that doesn't change after five pm 72 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: or before nine am. You still can't work from home. 73 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: So there's absolutely no reason really for people to have 74 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: cell phones or laptops or anything like that, because clearly 75 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: you can't work from home. There is no reason to 76 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: even try to do anything outside the office if you 77 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: cannot work from home. So all really you need is 78 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: a single like I don't know, bat signal kind of 79 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: thing that could summon you back to the office so 80 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: you could do work, as that's the only place work 81 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: can be done. I mean that means no emails after hours, right, 82 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: it's impossible for people to work from home. 83 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: I mean that actually might be a trade off some 84 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: people would choose. 85 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: But I'm saying I don't think those organizations are saying that. 86 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't think the organization are saying our emails will 87 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: stop working at five pm. Nobody will be able to 88 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: log on before night am because you cannot work from 89 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: outside the office. Like, No, they're not saying that. They're 90 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: just saying you have to work in the office between 91 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: whatever eight thirty and four thirty, whatever the hours are, 92 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: and we might reach you outside that too. Then you 93 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: can work from home, then it's fine, but it's only 94 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: these set hours. I don't know. Anyway, we want to 95 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: deal with life as it is, not life as it 96 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: should be, so soapbox regardless, this episode is about how 97 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: to survive RTO, especially if that is a five day 98 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,119 Speaker 1: a week RTO for you. All right, Sarah, I'm done. 99 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: The rets of the episode will be all me, since 100 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: I have lots of positive things to say about face 101 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: to face work. No, to be fair, I mean we're 102 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: going to talk about how I do actually prefer to 103 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: do a lot of my work outside of the home. 104 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: I do my creative work from home still, although honestly, 105 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: if I had a cute little office, maybe a couple 106 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: miles away, I probably might elect to go there, especially 107 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: in the afternoons when certain people may be descending upon 108 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: my home, making it a little bit more difficult to concentrate. 109 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: My house is not that big and it gets very 110 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: loud very quickly. So I do my creative work from home, 111 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: and I used to do some of my graduate medical 112 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: education work from home during COVID, but then pretty much 113 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: all of my patient care work is in person. There 114 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: was a time during COVID that they really sent everybody 115 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: out of the clinical areas and I had to do telehealth, 116 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: and I learned that I absolutely hate telehealth with a 117 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: fiery passion. Now I don't mind doing some telehealth visits 118 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: over the course of a work day, Like sometimes a 119 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 2: patient lives three hours away and I can only practice 120 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: within the state of Florida, by the way, so I 121 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: have to ask, like, are you in Florida, Okay, great, 122 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: then we can have our telehealth from like Ocala or wherever. 123 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: So there are some patients that I see telehealth and 124 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: that's fine, But doing full days of telehealth I find ineffective, exhausting, 125 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: and like basic almost torture. I mean that might just 126 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: be a me thing, but we're going to talk about 127 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: various benefits of being in person, but for me, it's 128 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: the exhausting aspect of the communication when it's not face 129 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: to face that is probably my least favorite part. So 130 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: I'm somebody who kind of enjoys a little bit more 131 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: about going somewhere to do my work, and so I 132 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: was maybe a little bit more easily able to come 133 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: up with some reframings that we will provide for you 134 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 2: today as well as so that we can appreciate a 135 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: few of the benefits. But that said, I one hundred 136 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: percent wholeheartedly agree with Laura that, like the idea of 137 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: the mandate for one hundred percent seems so silly and excessive, 138 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: and I am thinking of you if that impacts you, 139 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: especially if you signed up for a situation that didn't 140 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 2: look like that. That feels so unfair to me. And 141 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: I do feel like hybrid or like a mostly remote 142 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: situation and can be so wonderful for many people. So 143 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: this is not to say that I'm like, yeah, get 144 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: your butt back in the seat. 145 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I totally get that that. I mean, 146 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: especially things like patient care. It often is good to 147 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: have the picking up on things. But you know, like 148 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: your status meeting for like the project that's been going 149 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: on with for six months, I mean, it seems a 150 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: little odd that the once a week check in would 151 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: always have to be in person. You know, when you 152 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: see these people all the time. There's a good balance 153 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: to be had, but Okay, So the positives. One, some 154 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: people do have a split thing where it's easier to 155 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: focus in a place that is primed for work focus. Now, 156 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: I will say offices are distracting places, but if you 157 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: have structured it right, perhaps it is or possible. 158 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've structured it right, if you have a 159 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: door that you can close. But also it depends on 160 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: your makeup, right, and some people have harder time focusing 161 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: than others in general. But there is something to be 162 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: said that if you're used to being in a particular environment, 163 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: and if you're kind of conditioned yourself to like, Okay, 164 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: I have my routine. I walk through the door, I 165 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: get my coffee at little office coffee shop, I walk upstairs, 166 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 2: I put my laptop down, and then I like start, 167 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: Like you can kind of prime yourself into a really 168 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: nice ritual. I guess that's not to say you couldn't 169 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: do something similar at home, but it might be harder 170 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: with like the everyday things kind of still around, Like 171 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: it's the same environment you're going to be in when 172 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: you're having breakfast with the kids potentially or relaxing after work. 173 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: So some people I think do benefit from having kind 174 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: of a work specific environment. I do sort of my 175 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: brain knows to get into gear to like start going 176 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: through patient results when I sit down at my work desk, 177 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: I mean for better or forwear. Could I cultivate that 178 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: somewhere else? Maybe? But I think for some people, I'm 179 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: probably not the only person who gets a little bit 180 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 2: of a priming benefit from being in a work zone. 181 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: That's number one positive. 182 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, what are another? Okay? 183 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 2: So this one and I think this one I sort 184 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 2: of alluded to and as one of my biggest biggest ones, 185 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: is just that face to face communication is less tiring 186 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: and more enjoyable for most people when you're actually doing 187 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: it in person versus on a screen. There are just 188 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: all of these. I think it's actually more important when 189 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: you are explaining something that someone doesn't understand, or interacting 190 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: with someone that you don't know very well. Like I 191 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: don't really have a problem connecting with you on a 192 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: screen right now, but if I were pitching something or 193 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: I was like trying to get a sense of like 194 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: what you thought, it's just so much harder to sort 195 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: of tailor the discussion based on someone else's reaction when 196 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: you're not looking at them. It also is just harder 197 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: for you to see if they're understanding. So that gets 198 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 2: again like if you're in any kind of a job 199 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: where a lot of times you are explaining things to people, 200 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: it gets so weirdly tiring when you're trying to do 201 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: it with this like medium in between. So for that 202 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: in person, I think is just more pleasant, more relaxing. 203 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: And one example I'll use for my non clinical life 204 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: is that we used to do these big residency recruitment 205 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: blitzes where we'd like interview batches of twelve to fifteen 206 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: applicants at once for our residency program, and we did 207 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: it in person, and then we had COVID, so we 208 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: went to zoom. I found it so much more tiring 209 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: on zoom to give this speech and to smile and 210 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: to stay engaged and to even like gauge these people, 211 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: Like it was harder to really get an impression of 212 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 2: anybody through a screen than it was in person. Now, 213 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: was it more practical for them, absolutely, But then on 214 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: the downside, for them, they weren't able to actually see 215 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: the place where they might spend the next god knows 216 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: how many years of their life. So I don't know, 217 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: there's pluses and minuses but for me, that zoom fatigue 218 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: is real, and I much prefer the efficiency. I guess 219 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: it is like their efficiency is gained from face to 220 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: face communication. That sounds backwards because you're not driving somewhere, 221 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 2: but just the read on people on the way. 222 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: That you can understand each other. All right, let's just 223 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: quick run through like other people being in the home. 224 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: Yes, So that's another huge benefit from my perspective is 225 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: that when I'm at work seeing patients, my kids are 226 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: not at work with me seeing patients, so I am 227 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 2: like really can be in the zone and if I 228 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 2: you know, I guess I could get texted by something, 229 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: and sometimes I do, but they kind of aren't there, 230 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: so the opportunity to get interrupted, especially if there are 231 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: half days. If there are, you know, you have important 232 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: things to do at that four o'clock hour when kids 233 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 2: would otherwise be arriving home. I much prefer being somewhere 234 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: else if I'm trying to get work done, And that 235 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: also holds true for non kid related home obligations, like 236 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: you aren't going to be the default package getter a 237 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: repair person because you aren't there. You cannot talk to 238 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 2: the exterminator because you aren't there. Or maybe you and 239 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: your partner now have to negotiate instead of you always 240 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: being the default one if you happen to previously have 241 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: the more flexible job. Now, I know that can actually 242 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: be logistically problematic for some people because if you don't 243 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: have anybody at home, then it just becomes hard to 244 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: do those things in general. But if you do have 245 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 2: kids and you have someone at home with those kids 246 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: for at least part of the day, then sometimes that 247 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: person can then absorb that role that you would have 248 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: been doing if you were there. And everybody wins. 249 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, well, even if you are working 250 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: from home, hopefully if you have young kids, you have 251 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: somebody caring for them other than you, And one of 252 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: the things of having it be a paid caregiver is 253 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: you can like make sure they get out of the house. 254 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: That's always been one of our job descriptions with our 255 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: Nana's which there's also people I know who I've talked 256 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: to who have been trying to work from home and 257 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: their partner is staying home with their kids, and that's 258 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: a much harder one to navigate because it's a little 259 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: bit harder to force your partner to get out of 260 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: the house. With the kids because they're making their own 261 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: choices about what they're doing as opposed to working for you. Okay, 262 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: well we're going to take a quick ad break and 263 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: then we'll be back talking more about urto Well, we 264 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: are back talking all things return to office, so real quick, Sarah. 265 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: Office culture is potentially a positive for people being back 266 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: in more of a face to face environment. Yeah. 267 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 2: One thing that I enjoy about going to work in 268 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: a physical location is that office culture grows naturally that way. 269 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 2: And I've been in my office for twelve years now 270 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: and consider lots of the people that I work with 271 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: to be real friends. So it can be fun to 272 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: celebrate a birthday, a holiday, or just even chat for. 273 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: A few minutes. 274 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 2: Plus, there's a side benefit of the casual like actual 275 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: work that might be easy to kind of fit in 276 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 2: on the fly. I have colleagues that will walk into 277 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 2: each other's office and be like, I got these set 278 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: of laughs on a patient. They don't totally make sense 279 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: to me. Let's can we talk about it? And yes, 280 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: that could happen. You could kind of like text someone 281 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: and see if they wanted to call you or FaceTime you, 282 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 2: but it might be less likely to happen with that 283 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: person not being accessible like that. 284 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, although I would say you're not in the office 285 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: five days a week either, right, I mean, you know, 286 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: it's just the thing you could have both. Right. There 287 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: are certain kinds of work that are best done to 288 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: gather in person that casual back and forth banter, and 289 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: then there's other kinds that casual back and forth banter 290 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: is taking you away from doing. Right, there's certain sort 291 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: of heads down concentration kind of work that is quite 292 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: difficult to do if people are by being like, what 293 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: do you think of this? And if that's less likely 294 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: to happen, that could be a benefit for that sorts 295 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: of work. So again, this is why hybrid work tends 296 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: to be the best option then with some guidelines around it, 297 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: but mostly be people being treated as adults. But yet, 298 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: those are some things to think about possibly ways to 299 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: reframe this. But we had a few sort of survival 300 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: tactics to talk about as well. One is, if you 301 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: do suddenly have a longer commute that you were having 302 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: to do more frequently, try to think of this as 303 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: me time. Like, yes, commuting is often boring, stressful, but 304 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: it's too much time to completely write off in your life. 305 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: So as you are planning your weeks, plan your commutes, right, actually, 306 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: think of this time. Think of what you will do 307 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: during this time. For a lot of people, that's things 308 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: like listening to audiobooks. So make sure that your audiobooks 309 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: are packed. You've chosen well for the week, you're excited 310 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: about what you're going to listen to, or maybe you've 311 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: chosen an album to listen. 312 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: To Tuesday morning, so you're obviously. 313 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: Morning well and on Monday morning you can listen to 314 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: best like Plans, And if you listen to before breakfast, 315 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: hope your commute is probably not that short. It's like 316 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: four minutes. But on Wednesdays I do an interview that's 317 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: a little closer to thirty minutes, so you could. 318 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: Listen to So we figured out three other days already 319 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: only you've got something. 320 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: But you know it can also be a rev up 321 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: or decompression time, right, Sarah, Oh, totally. 322 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: For me, that's an enormous benefit. I usually do. Lately, 323 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: I've been doing music in the morning and then podcasts 324 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: in the afternoon, and I've done it actually either direction. 325 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 2: I kind of like to mix it up, but my 326 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: kids usually want to play various of their music in 327 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: the morning. Then I sort of pivot to my music 328 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: once I've dropped off the last kid on the way 329 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: to the office. And then I have different podcasts that 330 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: I often listen to on different days based on when 331 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 2: they come out, So you kind of just get a 332 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: routine out of it. And like, I am not someone 333 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: who would say I even hate my commute. I did 334 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: hate my commute when I drove from Miami Beach. That 335 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: was terrible, because I think what makes a commute bad 336 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: is a big unpredictability aspect, because you're like always hoping 337 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: it's going to be pretty good. But if you can 338 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: engineer a commute that's at least even if it's not 339 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: that short, if it's fairly predictable. Obviously people don't have 340 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: control over that, but you can just see it as like, 341 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: all right, I got thirty minutes. I'm hanging out in 342 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: the car. I can either call someone or I can 343 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: listen to something, but like, I don't really have anything 344 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: else to do. I can't really do anything else productive, 345 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: so I might as well enjoy it. 346 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, a commute can also be social time. I mean, 347 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: probably not every day, but carpling never really caught on 348 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: as a big hit because people value the flexibility of 349 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: having their own vehicle. But there might be some people 350 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: that you like enough to forego that flexibility just on occasion. 351 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: So commuting with a friend once every two weeks, like 352 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: if you work anywhere near a friend of yours, that 353 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: could be an amazing way to build in some time together. 354 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: Or maybe it's with your spouse once a week or so, 355 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: even if it's like ten minutes outside your normal drive, 356 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: it might be worth it to you extra twenty minutes 357 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: in order to spend like that extra ninety minutes there 358 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: and back with your spouse once a week. It might 359 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 1: be as much time as you guys get together if 360 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: you have young kids in a busy life. So yeah, 361 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: those are ways to think about it too. 362 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny when I when Josh first started working 363 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: at the same health system minded, I was like, oh, well, 364 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: go to work together. That happened zero time because he 365 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: doesn't actually work at the same hospital that I do, 366 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: so there's really no opportunity for that. But it would 367 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 2: have been cute if it had worked out. 368 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: It would have been cute. Another sort of survival strategy 369 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: mentally at least, is to quote a certain Sarah Hartunger, 370 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: make it worth the commute, right, Sarah. 371 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 2: Yes, well I didn't remember that I said that, but 372 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: I'm glad I did. That's a good quote. 373 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you may have to go in, but just 374 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: for your own sanity, make sure there is at least 375 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: something you are doing when you are in the office 376 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: that would have been hard to do remotely. In many cases, 377 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: that is something that is social. So try to start 378 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: a regular lunch group, maybe plug into or start your 379 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: own employee resource group. Maybe it's a mentoring program or 380 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: a mentoring connection that you are committing to mentor someone 381 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: once a week or so, so you know you're going 382 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: in to talk with them. But something that makes it 383 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: very clear why you are doing this, because, yeah, if 384 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: you have a day where you're just emailing and calling 385 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,239 Speaker 1: people in other places, it will feel very tedious, and 386 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: we would like to avoid that if possible. 387 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: Yes, Now the next thing would be boundaries. Kind of 388 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: as we implied in the very beginning, if you can't 389 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 2: work from home, then that gives you the leeway to 390 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: say you're not going to work from home. No, we're kidding, 391 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 2: We're being tongue in cheek about that aspect of it, 392 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: but sometimes it can kind of promote a little bit 393 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: of a natural separation. And I will say for myself, 394 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: I struggle much more with kind of shutting down on 395 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: days that I'm working for myself at home versus days 396 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 2: that I'm driving home. And I'm driving home it's like 397 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: very very obvious, like I was at work and now 398 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 2: I'm done with work, and I don't generally take home 399 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 2: clinical work unless it's a call week or something like that. 400 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 2: So if you are someone who struggles with the boundaries, 401 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: maybe you could reframe as like, this will help me 402 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 2: to set clearer boundaries, even if that does mean doing 403 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: very specific split shifts at certain times if work necessitates it. 404 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, because one of the things that I definitely found 405 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: studying people's schedules in the pre COVID era, people worry 406 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: with a long commute that if you have young kids 407 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: who go to bed relatively early, you will have very 408 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: limited time with them on weekday evenings. Now you might 409 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: have time with them on weekday mornings, you have time 410 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: with them on weekends, but the weekday evening, if you 411 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: have a child who goes to bed at like seven 412 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: or seven thirty and you're not home from your commute 413 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: until six six thirty. It sort of limits the evening. Again, 414 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: my children never did this. I would read about people 415 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: doing this. I'm like, oh, that sounds rough. Like my 416 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: child has never gone to bed at seven thirty pm. 417 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: No one ever, none of them babies, doesn't matter. Nobody 418 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: has ever gone to bed at seven thirty pm. But 419 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: if it is you, then you might consider working a 420 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: split shift, which is that you get out of your 421 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: office as soon as humanly possible. I don't know, try 422 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: to end at four thirty five max. But start the commute, 423 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: then get home, have a longer evening with your family, 424 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: and then do a little bit of work at night 425 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: after the kids went to bed. Because I'm probably believing 426 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: in a lot of these jobs, you actually can work 427 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: from home. It's just that you're not supposed to be. 428 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: But if you're doing it at nine o'clock at night, 429 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: people will probably be fine with it. 430 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've talked about this before, but usually you 431 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 2: want that work from home to be doing a specific project, 432 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 2: getting a discrete thing done, versus like I'm just gonna 433 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 2: like go into my email and like browse around a 434 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 2: little brows around. 435 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you are not going to get through a one 436 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: thousand email backlog from nine to ten at night, like, 437 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: so don't try like make yourself a to do list 438 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: for this split second shift saying Okay, these are the 439 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: three things I did not finish before I left the 440 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: office today and do in fact have to do before tomorrow. 441 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 1: So maybe preparing for a meeting, sending two responses to email, 442 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: and whatever something else you had to do, that's a 443 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: more reasonable thing to do. You want to be intentional 444 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: about breaks, right, Sarah, Yeah, And. 445 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 2: I think this is particularly important when you're out of 446 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: work because it might require a little bit of preparation. 447 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: So maybe it means asking a friend to go out 448 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 2: to lunch with you once a week. Maybe that means 449 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: bringing a book so you can spend your lunch time 450 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 2: doing that, or bringing comfortable shoes so you can take 451 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 2: a walk during lunch. But most workdays are not going 452 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: to be like you doing intents work from the minute 453 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: you get there until the minute you clock out, whether 454 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 2: you actually clock out or not. But you know what 455 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: I mean, And so it makes sense to actually think 456 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: about how you might want to spend those breaks well 457 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: rather than just kind of letting them happen in default 458 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 2: activity probably scrolling, not just scrolling not going to be 459 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 2: that thrilling. 460 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if you do need to leave early for 461 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: your commute and in winter you're somewhere that the commute 462 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: will get you home after the sun has gone down. 463 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: You probably want to arrange to see the sky in 464 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: the course of your work day. So take some sort 465 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: of break where you get outside, whether that's to grab 466 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: coffee at a local coffee shop, just to go for 467 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: a ten minute walk somewhere, if you go out for lunch, 468 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: just invent a reason to go outside, like you don't 469 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: actually need one. 470 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 2: The gen zs are all touch grass. We're like, no, 471 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: see the sky. 472 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: See the sky. Okay, well you could touch the grass 473 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: and see the sky. I don't know. If you're at 474 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: a skyscaper there may not be so much grass right 475 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: next to you, but the sky you might be able 476 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: to still see. So really totally, totally, And you also 477 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: want to make sure that you've planned in time for 478 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: your personal to do because these things don't stop just 479 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: because you are working in an office and you probably 480 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: feel a little bit you know, there's some things that 481 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: will be harder to do if you are in an 482 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: office as opposed to in a home office in terms 483 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: of managing life, administration and such that has to happen, 484 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: So you might need to strategically plan in a personal 485 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: day every so often to take care of anything that 486 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: is hard to make happen. 487 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 2: Agree, I used to do a lot of that, because 488 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: there's certain things that just have to be business hours 489 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 2: and certain things where it has to be you, like 490 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: going to your own doctor's appointment or getting your passport renewed. Like, 491 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: you cannot outsource those things even if you'd like to. 492 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: So I would strategically have like our full day off 493 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: every couple of months or so and try to batch things, 494 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: because it's true you won't have that flexibility, especially if 495 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 2: your work is a good distance away, so you're not 496 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: going to have access to those things that are close 497 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 2: to your house exactly. 498 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take one more quick ad break 499 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: and then we'll be back with a little bit more 500 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: about rto Well, we are back talking all things RT 501 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: returning to the office, especially for people who are in 502 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: a situation where you now need to be in your 503 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: workplace in person five days a week, which, as we 504 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: discussed earlier, is probably overkill, but we are dealing with 505 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: life as it is, not as we wish it would be. 506 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: The key thing to think about is that if you 507 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: are no longer at home during the day, you may 508 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: need to account for presence, like somebody being there at 509 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: various points that you may have taken for granted that 510 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: that was you at previous points, but now you're going 511 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: to have to figure out how that's going to work. 512 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: So packages that might night to be signed for, like 513 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: that's not going to work. Your dog You can't walk 514 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: the dog as a break if you are not there 515 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: meeting contractors, which again is a massive time suck. If 516 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: you are working from home, but you may have been 517 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: the one who did it. If like there was a 518 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: sudden leak that happened in your household or emergency childcare stuff. 519 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: If you and your partner are both working an hour 520 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: away from your kid's school, you need to figure out 521 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: who and how somebody gets there. If there's someone who 522 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: is like vomiting profusely, what goes on, you know? 523 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like some schools are just going 524 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 2: to have to wait an hour because they're parents are 525 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: going to work. And if parents are required to work 526 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 2: at their workplaces like that's hard to have. Everybody have 527 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 2: a backup person in case their kid happened to get 528 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: sick in the middle of a day and they're too 529 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 2: far away school with it. 530 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. So if you have family living beer by, 531 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: that could be yet another thing you ask them to 532 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: help with if that happens, or having a network of 533 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: babysitters or something that some people have during the day 534 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: availability again just as an option, or you know, and 535 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: kids get sick too, and if you cannot work from home, 536 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: that would require you to take a sick day yourself, 537 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: which seems very inefficient from the point of view of 538 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: the organization. But I'm not sure how they're dealing with that. 539 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: If they're not allowing people to work from home, I 540 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: guess you're just not allowed to have sick children. I 541 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: don't know. Oh my goodness. 542 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 2: My hope is that in instances like that, or because 543 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: that's an interesting question, like let's say there is a 544 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: hurricane warning and everyone's home, but there's no hurricane yet. 545 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: Would the company rather make everyone take pl and have 546 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 2: nothing get accomplished that day, or would they rather, on 547 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: specific occasions let them work from home. Oh my goodness, 548 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: I don't know. 549 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it is posted to work 550 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: from home, like this idea that you know you can't. Yeah, 551 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: if there's a giant snowstorm like people, of course you'd 552 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: rather have people work from home than lose a week 553 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: of productivity. But yes, I think it's a very short 554 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: sighted idea. But whatever, we do feel for people who 555 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: are dealing with this situation. We do. This is hard. 556 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: We're thinking of you, and we were trying to offer 557 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 2: some good We're trying to keep your spirits up and 558 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: give you some ideas, and there is always I did 559 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 2: mention here also that keep kicking butt at your job, 560 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 2: because the more awesome you are and the more valuable 561 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: you are, you never know, maybe you could start by 562 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: negotiating away some of this requirement if they really really 563 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: need you badly enough. I guess it depends on the 564 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: company culture, but maybe you would have some wiggle room there. 565 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, Or even if the company culture is the expectation 566 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: you're there, if it's not truly centrally enforced, then your 567 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: manager maybe like whatever, Like I know, she's going to 568 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: get her work done. And you can always go look 569 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: for another job, because there are still plenty of places 570 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: that treat people like adults and say, you know, you 571 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: can work in the office a certain number of days, 572 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: you can work from home as you decide is necessary, 573 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: and we look forward to seeing that more people want 574 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: to work there than work elsewhere. 575 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: I can't believe we were able to record this episode remotely, Laura, I. 576 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: Know, how is that even possible? Sarah? It's like, how 577 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: could this business exist if people can't work from home? 578 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: All right? 579 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: Well, mega to our Q and A. 580 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: All right, so Sarah sent me a two part question. 581 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: I think we're just going to do the second part 582 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: because that was the It's a multipart coastion, Okay, So 583 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: she says, we're looking at this is a family with 584 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: two looking at three children. We are looking at moving 585 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: closer to extended family in a couple of years, right 586 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: when our oldest child is getting close to kindergarten age. 587 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: I understand schools should be a major factor and where 588 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: exactly to buy a house, but how does one actually 589 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: figure out which are the good schools? I am told 590 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: the best way is to talk to parents there, but 591 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: since we currently live out of state, that seems tricky 592 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: on evaluating quality of schools. Projecting forward to see what 593 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: middle or high school options kids might have, and where 594 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: a school district is headed over the next fifteen years. 595 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: Am I vastly overthinking of this? But I don't want 596 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: to get stuck either moving or paying three private school tuitions. 597 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: Any tips about what to think about in general and 598 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: planning to settle in a larger metropolitan area as a 599 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: working parent, Okay, Sarah. 600 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a good thing to think about. 601 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 2: I wouldn't put this under the category of overthinking or 602 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: anything like that. Although the idea that you're going to 603 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: know exactly what the schools are going to look like 604 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 2: in fifteen years, yeah, we probably can't help too much 605 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 2: with that piece, but I think it is worth asking around. 606 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: Like you can do a lot online sloothing, like find 607 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: out if there are bulletin boards for that community on 608 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: Facebook or whatsopp or whatever, and or on Reddit. Actually, 609 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: I've seen this kind of thing as and you can 610 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: just sort of say, I'm thinking about moving to blah 611 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: blah blah city, like what are the most awesome school districts? 612 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: Or are you really happy in one of the school districts, 613 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 2: And you'll start to see patterns. Most likely said, of course, 614 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: like your kid's success is probably going to have a 615 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: lot more to do with the kids and the specific 616 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: school that they go to. And I will give you 617 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: the disclaimer that we move to our area partly for 618 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: the school districts and are paying three private school tuitions, 619 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: partly just because the needs of our kids were a 620 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: little bit different than we had anticipated and it turned 621 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: out the fit was the best, and since we could 622 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: do it, we just went in that direction. But no regrets, 623 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: because a area that has really good school districts tends 624 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: to have a lot of kids and a big kind 625 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: of kid culture, which means lots of activities and playgrounds 626 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: and community events and stuff like that. So all those 627 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: things tend to track together, and I would do the 628 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: best you can to get some people to kind of 629 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: sharea A real estate agent also might know, Yeah, yeah, no, 630 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: that's true. 631 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: Where would you suggest in this area we look if 632 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: we really value having good public schools. It's yeah, we 633 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: moved to this area. You know. I'm in the Lower 634 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: Marion township in Pennsylvania a lot because we had heard 635 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: the public schools were very good here, and I think 636 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: they are. If you went to a selective college, you've 637 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: probably met people from the various high schools in this area, 638 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: And so you might also look around, like do you 639 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: hear about the high schools in that area? In like 640 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: state competitions, in national competitions, do people mention the area 641 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: as being higher priced because of the schools? Right? Like 642 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: you will see that in real estate ads, Like they'll 643 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: say like this is in this district in the first 644 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: line in the real estate ads. Economics are funny that way. 645 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: Because she says she doesn't want to pay three private 646 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: school tuitions, you may wind up having that baked into 647 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: your house price. If you choose a very good public 648 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: school district, you are kind of paying the tuition in 649 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: the form of your granite countertops. But that's just kind 650 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: of the way economics works, right, But just other things 651 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: to look at. I have the teachers been there forever? 652 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: That might be something you could sleuth out, because if 653 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: very few teachers are quitting that neighborhood elementary school, that 654 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: might be something that suggests it's pretty good place to work. 655 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,959 Speaker 1: When people love to work somewhere, that generally means it's 656 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: pretty good, all right. Well. Linking this to our earlier segment, though, 657 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: I would say, like patient care education is something that 658 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: probably doesn't work as well virtually. I've had several kids 659 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: do online classes, and it definitely can work for older kids, 660 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: especially for subjects that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise. 661 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: I think for things like six year olds not so 662 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: good with remote work. 663 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 2: Definitely was not successful in our house. I'm telling you, 664 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: I mean we did that. 665 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, like adults who are doing something versus six year 666 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: olds and what they are capable of managing in terms 667 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: of their own time, attention and so forth. So you know, 668 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: there's something we shouldn't have offices that are treating people 669 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: like six year olds. But I digress. Look for places 670 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: that teachers love teaching, for places where it's mentioned in 671 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: the real estate ads, look for the high schools being 672 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: mentioned in competitions, and yeah, we'll just always keep an 673 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: open mind though, because even the best school district, it 674 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: might not work for your own kid for one reason 675 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: or the other. 676 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: And it might be so much cheaper to live somewhere 677 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 2: the dozen of good schools that the private school payment 678 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 2: question is a wash. And also depending on what state 679 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 2: you are in, there are different vouchers and all sorts 680 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: of things we could get into, so that are a 681 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 2: little bit too political for this podcast, but they happen 682 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: to exist in various places no matter what we. 683 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: Do think of them. All Right, moving on, I think 684 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: that was enough. But love of the week, all right, Sarah, 685 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: Yours is a new love. Yeah. 686 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: I mean I've always loved it but not really used it. 687 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: So decaff coffee just so glad it exists because I'm 688 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 2: not fully on decaf, but like, I feel like I'm 689 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 2: somewhat sensitive to caffeine right now, but I can still 690 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 2: have coffee and I can have like a little bit 691 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 2: of caffeine and like modulate that on the ratio of caffeine. 692 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 2: So I'm just like very happy and I can go 693 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: to Starbucks and get decaf cappuccinos and stuff, and this 694 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 2: is good. 695 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that it actually exists, that there are options because. 696 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 2: I don't really like tea that much, so it's good 697 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: to have. 698 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: How do they decaffeinate coffee? 699 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: I don't know it's Swiss, but it always says Swiss process. 700 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know what that process is, but 701 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: those Swiss have figured it out somehow. 702 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: It takes out the caffeine, or you can have places 703 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: that just add caffeine for no real reason just to 704 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: make their their drinks. Their juice is more addictive. That's 705 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: exciting too. So I'm going to say that I am 706 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: drinking this Perrier Perie. How do you Perier Perrier? I'm 707 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: so not fancy, but the Seltzer water because I've gotten 708 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: to that as my evening drink of choice. It is 709 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: probably better than having a craft beer in general. And 710 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: yet you still want something that's a little special and bubbly, 711 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: not juice or coke or anything like that. So drinking 712 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: a lot of Perier right now. 713 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,479 Speaker 2: I feel like Perier is like I drink a lot 714 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 2: of like Lacroix, but Perie is classier. 715 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: So I think that's cool. Some of my children have, 716 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, we get the Lacroix too that you know, 717 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: I kind of think of the Perier as mine and 718 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: the Lacroix is for the kids. But then one or 719 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: two kids who see me drinking the Periy and they 720 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: want the Perier and then they take like two SIPs 721 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: in check the canon. It makes me so so unhappy. 722 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: It is sad. It is said, like why why did 723 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: you do that? All right, well, this has been best 724 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 1: of both worlds. We've been talking return to office strategies, 725 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: ways of thinking about it, strategies for making the most 726 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: of your day, for not losing your sanity over the commute. 727 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making 728 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: work and life fit together. 729 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 730 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, 731 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 2: and you. 732 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 733 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 734 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life 735 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: work together.