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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld, we're going to discuss the

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Speaker 1: results of Super Tuesday, Nikki Haley dropping out of the race,

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Speaker 1: and what's next in the twenty twenty four election. We'll

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Speaker 1: also discuss some of the key congressional races around the country.

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Speaker 1: I'm really pleased to welcome back my good friend and

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Speaker 1: my guest, Shawn Spicer, former White House Press Secretary and

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration and current host of The Shawn Spicer Show,

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Speaker 1: a terrific podcast. Shawn, Welcome and thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: me on Newtsworld.

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Speaker 2: Always a pleasure, mister speaker, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to start if I could back

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Speaker 1: before you became Press secretary and became nationally known. What

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Speaker 1: was your background leading up to going to the White House.

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Speaker 2: The quick version is, I went off to college. I

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Speaker 2: grew up at best working class. I went off to

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Speaker 2: college as a Japanese language major because I was told

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Speaker 2: that that's how I could make money. This is in

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Speaker 2: the late eighties. The long and short of it is

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Speaker 2: I was very bad at Japanese and I had no

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Speaker 2: desire to pursue it. There was no passionate it. I

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Speaker 2: took a government course and had this intellectual awakening and

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Speaker 2: began getting involved. I interned met at Connecticut State Legislature.

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Speaker 2: I interned on some campaigns in Connecticut, and ultimately, as

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Speaker 2: you were making the case for a Republican majority for

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Speaker 2: the first time in decades and going around doing the

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Speaker 2: Contract of America, I had graduated from college got my

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Speaker 2: first paid job one thousand dollars a month in Connecticut's

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Speaker 2: second district, a guy named Ed Munster running against a

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Speaker 2: multi termin coment, Sam Gagenson, and that began what I

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Speaker 2: tell people affectionally. I became like a minor league ballplayer.

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Speaker 2: I went from camp paying to campaign trying to get

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Speaker 2: the next level up job, go from making one thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars a month to like twelve hundred dollars a month.

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Speaker 2: I worked in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Florida, wherever I could get

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Speaker 2: the next race in New Jersey. I kind of floated

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Speaker 2: back and forth between Capitol Hill during even years and

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Speaker 2: on the campaign trail in odd years, and ended up

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Speaker 2: doing a race in Florida's twenty second district, Clay Shaw's

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Speaker 2: race in the year two thousand, which was a very

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Speaker 2: very close race. Clay had been a long term in

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Speaker 2: comedy at a tight race for the first time, and

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Speaker 2: never we pulled the race out that I went to

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Speaker 2: the NRCC, the National Republican Congressional Committee, as you know,

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Speaker 2: and then kind of made my way into House leadership.

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Speaker 2: I went to work for the House Republican Conference under

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Speaker 2: Debora Price, and then went to the Bush White House

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Speaker 2: as the Assistant US Trade rep for Public Affairs, so

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Speaker 2: basically the trade spokesman. I got mobilized and the Navy

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Speaker 2: spent about twenty months on active duty, and then when

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Speaker 2: I got off ed, Gillespie connected me with Wright's previous

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Speaker 2: who had just been elected chairman of the RNC and said, Sean,

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Speaker 2: I know you've always wanted to work at the r

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Speaker 2: and c Rice just got elected, and I hit it

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Speaker 2: off with Rights. I ended up spending three cycles, which

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Speaker 2: is six years, at the RNC as communications structor and

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Speaker 2: then chief strategist for the party. And that kind of

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Speaker 2: got me to Donald Trump world, because when Trump became

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Speaker 2: the nominee, he didn't have the usual campaign apparatus that

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Speaker 2: a presidential campaign had, and so I began performing a

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Speaker 2: lot of the functions that would normally get done through

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Speaker 2: the campaign. I traveled back and forth to New York.

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Speaker 2: I flew with them and developed a relationship with them.

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Speaker 2: I would love to say that I had fifty people

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Speaker 2: lined up to be press secretary and I beat them

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Speaker 2: all out. But the reality is, if we're being honest,

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Speaker 2: that when Trump won, if you looked around the room

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Speaker 2: at the number of people that had a experience, b

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Speaker 2: had worked with him and had a relationship with him,

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Speaker 2: there wasn't a heck of a lot of people that

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Speaker 2: that would have amounted to. And we started having conversations

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Speaker 2: about what my place and my role would be. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not dummy. He said, you know, what would you

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Speaker 2: want to do? And I said, well, how about presecretary?

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, So that was kind of the interview.

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Speaker 1: I just did a column on Trump's triumph in terms

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Speaker 1: of Super Tuesday, and I deliberately in the column spend

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Speaker 1: most of the time trying to describe how he actually operates,

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Speaker 1: because if you think about it and you lived through it,

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Speaker 1: this is a stunningly intense, very very smart guy who

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Speaker 1: imposes his will twenty four hours a day. It's astonishing.

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Speaker 1: And I think in that sense, your point's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't the Trump campaign the one in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: It was Trump. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we provided resources and tools for him, but

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like massive focus grips. I had been at

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Speaker 2: the RNC for six years in two cycles. We weren't

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Speaker 2: feeding up research to him saying say this, don't say

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Speaker 2: that they witchhed, not that you know more than let

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Speaker 2: It was he knew what he was going to say,

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Speaker 2: and we drafted right basically said Okay, we'll go out

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Speaker 2: there and support you in what you're doing. Will help

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Speaker 2: take these people that are supporting you, make sure that

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Speaker 2: we're signing them up. But it was his message and

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Speaker 2: his momentum that carried us.

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Speaker 1: You in a sense, were dropped right into the middle

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Speaker 1: of the war. Because of course the left deeply repudiated

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Speaker 1: Trump having won, and you only wrote a book about

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Speaker 1: it called The Briefing. I mean, that must have been

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Speaker 1: just an extraordinary immersion in things that almost nobody's ever

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Speaker 1: gotten to do.

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Speaker 2: The good part of it was this, I spent over

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Speaker 2: twenty five years in the Navy. I've worked in government before,

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Speaker 2: both on Capitol Hill and as I mentioned, in the

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Speaker 2: Bush administration. I've seen bureaucracy up close. Let's put it

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Speaker 2: that way. With Trump, if you came to him with

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Speaker 2: an idea and you said, miss President, or at that

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Speaker 2: you know, mister Trump or the campaign, Miss President. Afterwards,

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Speaker 2: here's what I want to do and why, and he

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Speaker 2: would go, great, go do it. There was no memos

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Speaker 2: and PowerPoint presentations. You were given the authority to execute things.

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Speaker 2: That was a good thing, and there's also times when

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Speaker 2: it was a bad thing. But for the most part,

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Speaker 2: it was very helpful to cut through that because we

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Speaker 2: were able to do things in a way that normally

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Speaker 2: would have gotten lost in a bureaucratic shuffle. But to

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Speaker 2: see that up close with something that I had never thought.

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Speaker 2: I told people when you're at the RNC, it's like

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Speaker 2: you're on the JV team. You get the jersey, you're

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Speaker 2: part of the big team, you get invited to the

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Speaker 2: end of the year party, but you're not the starter.

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Speaker 2: And so I always joke that, you know, during the

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Speaker 2: previous cycle, if Romney had won, I probably would have

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Speaker 2: been the Deputy Undersecretary for Public Affairs at HUD, which

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Speaker 2: I'm sure is a very good job. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we would have gotten something, we would have been taken

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Speaker 2: care of. But having the opportunity to be up close

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Speaker 2: and see this in a way that normally wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: been part of the trajectory of that job. Was just

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Speaker 2: something fascinating for me, and it was great because there's

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Speaker 2: an old saying by a Marine Corps commandant by the

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Speaker 2: name of Charles Krulocke, and he says, in the absence

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Speaker 2: of leadership, take charge. And what the Trump campaign and

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Speaker 2: frankly overall, really empowers you to do is if you're

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Speaker 2: seeing something that needs to get done, then go do it.

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Speaker 2: Don't sit around, and you know, ask eighteen people, put

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Speaker 2: a plan together, and execute it. And I think that

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Speaker 2: was from a campaign perspective, just so unique. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know that it's going to happen again because I

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Speaker 2: think Trump knows better now. He still has the same mentality,

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Speaker 2: but there's more of a professionalization now with the current

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Speaker 2: campaign structure, which, by the way, I do think there's

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Speaker 2: a balance and it's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: I think if he can have professionalization without bureaucracy, yep,

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Speaker 1: he will be even more powerful and more capable of

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Speaker 1: getting things done. And so far, I would say that

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Speaker 1: Susie Wiles and Chris Losovita are running a textbook operation

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Speaker 1: which people will study for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I keep telling people it's like Goldilocks. Like twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: the porridge was too cold, twenty twenty, the porridge was

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Speaker 2: too hot. This time, it's just right. And I think

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Speaker 2: they've gotten that balance. You've got to understand that Trump

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Speaker 2: is not a typical candidate. He's going to say what

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Speaker 2: he wants to say first, and then you follow up,

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Speaker 2: and they understand him as a candidate and as a

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Speaker 2: person and are able to supplement what he's doing. And

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Speaker 2: that's the unique part about this. To your point, you

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Speaker 2: can't replicate what Trump's doing. There's no one that's going

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Speaker 2: to come after him and say, okay, give me the

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Speaker 2: Trump campaign. It's driven by him first and foremost.

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Speaker 1: The reason I decided to write a piece on Trump's

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Speaker 1: triumph is here's the guy who's been battered, attacked, assaulted,

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Speaker 1: and derided light about. And the result is I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to read the numbers quickly, but you have our

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Speaker 1: listeners a flavor. Alaska eighty seven percent, Alabama eighty three percent,

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Speaker 1: Arkansas seventy seven percent, California seventy eight percent, Colorado sixty

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Speaker 1: three percent, Massachusetts fifty nine point nine Maine seventy two.

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Speaker 1: When you go down this list of states, this is

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Speaker 1: all in one day, represents a total dominance onlike any

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Speaker 1: non incumbent I can remember, except Andrew Jackson in eighteen

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Speaker 1: twenty eight. It's astonishing to see somebody who that totally

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Speaker 1: dominates the entire National Party to a point where nobody

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Speaker 1: else can seriously compete with him.

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Speaker 2: Well, so here's the other piece of that that just

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Speaker 2: so that listeners understand this, of the sixteen contests that

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Speaker 2: were held on the Republican side, ten well, let me

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Speaker 2: back up a second. The RNC rules dictated prior to

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Speaker 2: March fifteenth, all states must be proportional. The idea was

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Speaker 2: that they didn't want a runaway candidate, somebody who had

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Speaker 2: massive national idea or a self funder to come in

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Speaker 2: and run away with the process. They wanted more voters

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Speaker 2: to be part of the process. So they said, if

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Speaker 2: you're going to go before March fifteenth, you've got to

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Speaker 2: be proportional. So what the Trump team did last year,

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Speaker 2: while the Santus was still deciding whether to get in,

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Speaker 2: whether Nikki Haley was still deciding to get in, they

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Speaker 2: went and sat down with these state parties and said,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna work within the rules. We're gonna make sure

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Speaker 2: that you're proportional technically, but we want to add a

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Speaker 2: caveat to all of your plans that says, if you

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Speaker 2: hit over fifty percent, you get all of the at

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Speaker 2: large delegates, and the same would be true with the

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Speaker 2: congressional delegates that would be awarded from your state. So

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Speaker 2: he goes in and wins these states by fifty plus one.

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Speaker 2: California yesterday one hundred and sixty nine delegates, Texas one

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty one delegates. He walks out of the

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Speaker 2: state with all of them. It's the professionalization of what

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Speaker 2: they did actually is so important. It's not just the

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Speaker 2: percentages that you're reading out, which are huge, it's the

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Speaker 2: amount of delegates that he walked out of there with.

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Speaker 2: Look at Nikki Haley and she gets anywhere from twenty

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Speaker 2: five to thirty whatever, even forty percent. He walked out

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Speaker 2: of the eight hundred and fifty four delegates with probably

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Speaker 2: seven hundred and ninety something. He totally dominated. It's interesting

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Speaker 2: today she drops out and I was trying to tell

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Speaker 2: people early this morning, this is the equivalent of saying

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Speaker 2: I quit after someone says, you're fired. Her dropping out

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Speaker 2: was irrelevant, it was over.

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Speaker 1: She would have been better off psychologically to have dropped out.

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Speaker 1: After South Carolina. She said, look, I ran all the

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Speaker 1: way I was governor. He's clearly more popular. She had

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of money coming from anti Trump people.

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Speaker 1: The only state she carried was Vermont, which allows Democrats

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Speaker 1: to vote in the Republican primary, and she still only

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Speaker 1: carried it by I think four percent. She also won DC,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was perfectly appropriate. A very weak Republican party,

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Speaker 1: almost no votes, and all the lobbyists who Trump was

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Speaker 1: going to try to make unemployed decided they'd vote against him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's the thing, look at the median error

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Speaker 2: this morning was well, Trump's got to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to attract the Nicki Haley voters. NBC News did a

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Speaker 2: poll an exit pole. Forty one percent of Nicki Haley

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Speaker 2: support was from independence, twenty five percent was from Democrats.

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Speaker 2: What those people were never going to vot for Trump.

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Speaker 2: They were people that didn't know there wasn't a contest

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Speaker 2: on their Democratic side and said, fine, I'll go vote

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Speaker 2: for Nicki Haley just cause I get to the other

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Speaker 2: interesting sat that NBC News came out with is They

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Speaker 2: asked people who had voted for Trump in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: if they were still voting for him. Ninety seven percent

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Speaker 2: said yes. They asked the same question of people who

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Speaker 2: voted for Biden in twenty twenty, eighty five percent said yes.

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Speaker 2: Biden has the problem with maintaining his coalition, not Trump.

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Speaker 2: And again, the media narrative is what's Trump going to

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Speaker 2: do to get the Nicki Haley supporters? And my answer

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Speaker 2: is the Nicki Haley supporters, by and large were Biden

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Speaker 2: voters that just didn't have anything better to do.

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Speaker 3: Tuesday, the chief analysts for the New York Times, Nate Cohen,

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Speaker 3: did a piece and said, the fact is Trump is ahead,

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Speaker 3: is like to stay ahead.

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Speaker 1: And the number one reason is people don't like Joe Biden. Now,

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Speaker 1: if a New York Times analyst right that, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was first of all an act of great courage,

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Speaker 1: but also tells you how bad Biden is doing, that

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Speaker 1: he's really truly losing his base in the news media.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that the problem that I tried to

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Speaker 2: figure this out, and my only answer to this is

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Speaker 2: that some of these reporters need to at some point

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Speaker 2: have to want to save face. Right. They've been carrying

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Speaker 2: the Biden water now for three years, and pole after

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Speaker 2: pole shows that it's not working and that they have

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Speaker 2: to at least at some point say, well, see, I

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Speaker 2: said that he was in trouble, so that when he loses,

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Speaker 2: they can say the I hall this. But they're not

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Speaker 2: doing this happily. They are begrudgingly coming to the realization

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Speaker 2: that after all the wadi that they've carried for him

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Speaker 2: for three years, it's just not there. And the thing

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Speaker 2: is that you know from all of your time in

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Speaker 2: this game, is that at some point point the problem

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Speaker 2: that Biden has between his metal acuity, his physical frailness,

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Speaker 2: and just his unlikability is that those can't be fixed.

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Speaker 2: Those aren't policy prescriptions. You can't say we'll just you know,

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Speaker 2: add some more stimulus to the economy and get things going.

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Speaker 2: Those are personal things. Unless he's Benjamin Button, he's not

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Speaker 2: going to get younger.

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Speaker 1: And I think he has this dual problem. Though when

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Speaker 1: you ask people were you better off personally, they overwhelmingly

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Speaker 1: picked the Trump years over the Biden years, And so

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Speaker 1: he has a policy performance problem and a personality performance problem.

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Speaker 1: The two combined that's what you know.

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Speaker 2: It's funny. Biden did this interview, I think it was

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Speaker 2: with David Muir probably six seven months ago, and he said,

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Speaker 2: you can't turn on the TV and hear about anything

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Speaker 2: that's going right. Even he admitted it, and it's true.

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Speaker 2: Think about it. Trump's speech last night when he got

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Speaker 2: on stage at Marlago, he talked about the economy, unemployment

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Speaker 2: rates under him, interest rates, to the border, energy independence.

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Speaker 2: The contrast is so sharp. It's not one or two issues.

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Speaker 2: It's not fighting over statistics from the Bureau of Labor

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Speaker 2: Management or something like that, and saying, if you look

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Speaker 2: at this, it's literally issue after issue after issue. Here's

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Speaker 2: my record, here's yours. Which one do you like better?

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Speaker 2: And I think that people are going to have a choice,

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Speaker 2: unlike ever before. This is not a hypothetical race where

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Speaker 2: you say, my policies will grow the economy in this

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Speaker 2: thing and I will continue. It's hey, here's what I did.

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Speaker 2: Here's my record of results for four years. Here's Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden's record of results for four years. Which one do

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Speaker 2: you like better? This is sort of like the old school,

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Speaker 2: you know, diet PEPSI, diet coke challenge, that they used

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Speaker 2: to do or sit both. Tell me which one you

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Speaker 2: like better. But at some point you just can't couch.

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Speaker 2: You can't hide it anymore. That's what it is. People

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Speaker 2: are going to choose the Trump record over and over again.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, just as a brief aside, one

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Speaker 1: of the most interesting minor things yesterday was that Jason Palmer,

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Speaker 1: who is an entrepreneur one Samoa. Well, what I love

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Speaker 1: about it is that the territory gets six delegates, and

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Speaker 1: that he got fifty one votes and Biden got forty.

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Speaker 1: But he now has won I think the only place

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Speaker 1: that Biden's lost. I just thought it's something basically American

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Speaker 1: that you can have these little anomalies and this guy

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Speaker 1: goes out. I mean, I apparently American Sooa likes to

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Speaker 1: vote for outlives. They've voted for Bloomberg last time. It

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Speaker 1: was humor in the middle of an otherwise very serious process.

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Speaker 2: It is funny. I mean. The thing is with Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: though he actually campaigned there, he spent money in American

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Speaker 2: Samoa to get those delegates, which I get. It makes

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Speaker 2: sense if you're running in a contested primary, go get them.

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Speaker 2: But this is a dude who lives in Maryland. This

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Speaker 2: isn't like some samoan that was the local favorite. The

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Speaker 2: guy lives in Maryland. And by the way, Dean Phillips

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Speaker 2: and Mary and Williamson were on the ballt like who

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Speaker 2: have at least are officially running and people knew about it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think about that, this guy out of nowhere.

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Speaker 2: No one knew his name yesterday. I don't think anyone

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Speaker 2: knew his name this morning. They were probably still googling it.

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Speaker 2: But it's an embarrassment. And look, a bigger problem is

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Speaker 2: when you look at the Minnesota uncommitted vote and the

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Speaker 2: vote in North Carolina where they got to basically vote

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Speaker 2: none of the above, both swing states. That's a problem

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Speaker 2: for Joe Biden. People are going out of their way

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Speaker 2: and I always tell people stop for a moment and

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Speaker 2: think about it. Like I live, I don't know a

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Speaker 2: quarter of a mile for my voting the school that's

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Speaker 2: down where I vote, but it still takes, you know,

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Speaker 2: ten minutes to walk down there. You got to go in,

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Speaker 2: show your ID because it's Virginia, and then you walk out.

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Speaker 2: But my point is it's a thirty minute in and

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Speaker 2: out kind of deal. If you're going to spend thirty

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Speaker 2: minutes to go vote for Jason whatever it will. You

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Speaker 2: have to think about how much you dislike the president

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Speaker 2: of the United States, if you're a Democrat that you're

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Speaker 2: taking thirty minutes out of your day to go cast

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Speaker 2: this vote.

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Speaker 1: It's Jason Palmer. On the other hand, since the total

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Speaker 1: primary was ninety one people, it may not have taken

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Speaker 1: very long.

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Speaker 2: That's true, but you still got to leave your house

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Speaker 2: and go somewhere. I think that it speaks volumes.

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Speaker 1: You probably had time for the luau after.

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Speaker 2: The vote, That's right, That's right.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I'm intrigued with that also broke yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I want to get your reaction to in a very

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Speaker 1: tight Cenate wherethy bias of who's up for reelection this

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Speaker 1: year strongly favors Republicans. Kirsten Cinema decided she would not

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Speaker 1: run for reelection. It is sort of the last independent

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Speaker 1: Democrat in the Senate. What do you make of that?

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Speaker 1: And do you think it makes it easier or harder

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Speaker 1: for the Republicans? Fool in Arizona.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me say a couple of things. Number One,

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Speaker 2: the reason the filibuster still exists, right, now is because

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Speaker 2: of kirston Cinema Right and her party forced her out.

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Speaker 2: She left the Democratic Party came independent because they put

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Speaker 2: so much pressure on her and made it so difficult

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Speaker 2: for her. She's from a probably not as ruby red

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Speaker 2: as it used to be, but it's not purple yet,

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Speaker 2: but it's getting there. And instead of embracing her and

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Speaker 2: saying okay, she's a key vote that gives us the majority,

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Speaker 2: they pushed her out. The media loves to fixate on

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Speaker 2: the prompts and the Republican Party. It speaks volumes about

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Party that they wanted her out, number one,

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Speaker 2: number two. Like I said, I think it's important to

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Speaker 2: give her credit for standing firm on the importance of

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Speaker 2: the filibuster. Lastly, to your question about where there's the thing,

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Speaker 2: I think it made it easier for Carrie Lake, who

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Speaker 2: will be the Republican nominee, to win with her in

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Speaker 2: the race. She was a Democrat, she served in the

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Speaker 2: House prior to the Senate, so even if she took

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Speaker 2: five ten, twenty forty thousand votes, that probably helped Carrie Lake.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be more of a dogfight now. Luckily,

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Speaker 2: Rubuguello is an extremely far left Democrat, but it's going

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Speaker 2: to cost money, some real money in Arizona. Will obviously

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Speaker 2: play there as a battleground state, so that helps get

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Speaker 2: out the vote, but this is going to cost a

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Speaker 2: lot more money.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I think Terry Lake has managed to maintain sort of

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Speaker 1: her national attraction through the governor's race, which she lost

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Speaker 1: in a very controversial way, and now ever since then,

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Speaker 1: she's managed to stay remarkably public and she's very, very

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Speaker 1: close to Trump. So I think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: fascinating to see how that particular race comes up. The

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Speaker 1: one other thing that's sort of an anomaly this year,

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Speaker 1: which I'd like to year reaction to before I dive in,

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Speaker 1: is the whole effort of the no labels people. What

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Speaker 1: is your sense of that?

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Speaker 2: So probably the biggest question that I get, and I'm

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Speaker 2: almost certain that if it's not the number one that

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Speaker 2: you get, it's probably in the top three, is tell

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Speaker 2: me who's going to win the presidential race. My answer is,

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Speaker 2: tell me how many third party candidates are on the

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Speaker 2: ballot this November. If you go back and look for example,

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Speaker 2: at twenty sixteen, Michigan has fifteen electoral votes, was won

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Speaker 2: by Trump, by ten thousand, seven hundred and three votes

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Speaker 2: er point two to two percent overall. That was the

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Speaker 2: margin of victory there. Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate,

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Speaker 2: took fifty five thousand votes.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, Trump lost Michigan. The Green Party candidate

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Speaker 2: who I don't know who it was, then got one

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Speaker 2: thousand votes. How the third party candidates get are on

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Speaker 2: the ballot is going to matter. So no labels right

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Speaker 2: now says they're on sixteen ballots. Robert F. Kennedy Junior

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Speaker 2: yesterday says that he's now on the Nevada ballot. He

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Speaker 2: was on the Utah ballot. He says he's on probably Arizona,

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Speaker 2: potentially one other one. If you're on the ballot in

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Speaker 2: battleground stage, of which there are eight, that's it. There

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Speaker 2: are only eight states that in my opinion, will determine

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Speaker 2: this election, then that's going to have a big shift.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at Arizona and Georgia. We're talking ten

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Speaker 2: fifteen thousand votes that decide I did those states, So

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Speaker 2: there's no question in my mind that's how the race goes. Specifically,

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Speaker 2: with no labels, they're going to decide this Friday at

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Speaker 2: their virtual convention. Whether they're going to run a race,

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Speaker 2: I'm torn on this. I'll defer to you because they've

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Speaker 2: raised all this money, they've really spent a ton of

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Speaker 2: time on ballot access, but they've had a lot of

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Speaker 2: the high profile people turned them down that said that

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Speaker 2: they didn't want to be the standard bearer. If No

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Speaker 2: Labels runs a candidate, and they run the Republican as

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Speaker 2: the president and the Democrat as the vice presidential candidate,

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Speaker 2: and it's somebody of stature, so I'm thinking like a

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Speaker 2: John Huntsman of Utah, somebody who people can look at

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Speaker 2: and say, Okay, that's a legitimate candidate. I think it's

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Speaker 2: trouble for Trump, but I think if they run a

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Speaker 2: week candidate or they put the Democrat at the top,

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Speaker 2: then it's great. I also question their motives, and that's

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Speaker 2: the last thing I'll say on this, because they keep

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Speaker 2: saying we don't want to put a candidate forward if

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Speaker 2: it helps Trump, well that defeats the whole purpose No

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Speaker 2: Labels was to say we want to find a unifying candidate.

432
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 2: Now it's turned into if it's going to help Trump,

433
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: we don't want to do anything. And I'm like, well,

434
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: that's not what you were told everyone. You were all

435
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 2: about something.

436
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: It's very funny that you have no labels except.

437
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 2: Andi Trump, right, it's one label.

438
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm just very dubious about the whole thing. I think

439
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: the most formidable third party candidate is Robert Kennedy, Yeah,

440
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy Junior, because I think he has a genuine personality,

441
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: he has a national name, he has a pretty intense

442
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: following on issues, including the whole vaccination issue. Now he's

443
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: only on four states. I always thought if the no

444
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: Labels people were clever, they would swallow their pride and

445
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: accept Kennedy as their candidate, and that would put him

446
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: on enough states that he would be very formidable. That, however,

447
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: would truly hurt Biden.

448
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, the Kennedy name,

449
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: enough Democrats would vote for him who are not happy

450
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: with Biden. You'd give him a place to park their vote.

451
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: But that's why I'm saying, how this plays out matters

452
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: how many ballots does he get on, how many ballots,

453
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: and does No Labels put a candidate for it. How

454
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 2: does Jill Stein, who is now running again. By the way,

455
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: all of that to me is pretty important to tell

456
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: you who's going to win. If they're on the ballot

457
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: in California and Texas or whatever, who cares. But if

458
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 2: they're on the ballot in Pennsylvania and Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Michigan,

459
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: that's going to make a difference. And Kennedy says he's

460
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 2: on the ballot in Nevada, that's a big deal. That's

461
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: potentially enough electoral votes to make a difference.

462
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: One of the things somebody said today was that they

463
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: thought that the Fanny Willis case has turned out to

464
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: be so absurd and so indefensible that they think it

465
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: has actually put Georgia to reach for the Democrats. People

466
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: are just going to say, this is crazy.

467
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: It is amazing. You know when you watch a show

468
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: or you read a book or whatever it is, and

469
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: the author or the director just goes too far that

470
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 2: you went from enjoying it to be like, okay, you

471
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: just ruined it. The Democrats did this each one of

472
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: these cases. They took it just a step too far

473
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: in each case where even Trump hater said, okay, guys,

474
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 2: that was too much, like you can't do that. And

475
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: the idea that she's paying her boyfriend to prosecute. I

476
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: think people are like, oh, guys, you got us, you

477
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 2: had us for a little while, but then you did this.

478
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: Come on, well, and I think the next phase is

479
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: going to be you know, they are going to try

480
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: to take Trump to court during the campaign.

481
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it.

482
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: Strikes me that they really don't think through the president.

483
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: They're setting in a way that could come back to

484
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: bite them pretty badly.

485
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: No, you know, I'm glad you said that because it's

486
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: interesting to me. So Trump, in this other case January

487
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: and even to some degree in the Morologuer cases, making

488
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: an immunity claim. And I've had this conversation with Democrats

489
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 2: and I'll say, you guys, realize right now, the president

490
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: of United States has no immunity. Right, So you could

491
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: theoretically sue Joe Biden for the failed Afghanistan withdrawal. You

492
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: could sue Barack Obama if you had standing for drone

493
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: strikes to killed Americans, And they were like, oh, that's silly. Well, no,

494
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: that's the issue if the president United States doesn't have immunity. Now,

495
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: the question is was Trump acting in this capacity as

496
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: president the United States? But when they say oh, they

497
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: should throw it out. I'm like, you do realize you

498
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 2: do that, you're opening the door to say, then the

499
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: president has no immunity full stop, and now you can

500
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: start suing him for adverse actions. Maybe somebody was killed

501
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: by an illegal alien that was let in or whatever,

502
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: and they don't ever think about the consequences of what

503
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 2: they're doing. It is all in an effort to get

504
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: Trump at any cost. It doesn't matter. The president of

505
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: the set the bridges, they burn, the buildings they tear down.

506
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: It's who I always hope people. It's not that these

507
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: people can't play chess, they can't play tik tac toe.

508
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: But here's the thing that I find fascinating. They don't care. Right.

509
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: You talk to them and it's like, you say, you

510
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: realize the present they'll set, and they're like, well, we

511
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: have to stop Trump. Okay, So you're willing to burn

512
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: down everything just to stop this guy, yep.

513
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: Which means I think we need to be braced for

514
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: a very interesting period when he wins.

515
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 2: Oh, you've already seen what Adam shippen Swallwell talk about,

516
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 2: the fact that the Supreme Court nine to zero so

517
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 2: that you can't take them off the ballot. So what

518
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 2: do they do. They said, well, we're going to introduce

519
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 2: legislation that allows us to take him off once he's

520
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 2: in office and therefore declare him an insurrectionists And say, fine,

521
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: you guys said that Section five needs to get clarified

522
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 2: in terms of Congress doing its job, then we'll do it.

523
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: And I've said this over and over again on my

524
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: podcast every single day. Remember, we are two votes short

525
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: of them being able to execute all of this. If

526
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: the Republicans lose the House majority, it's all going to happen.

527
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: And people have to understand that if we don't maintain

528
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: a Republican majority and hopefully both houses, but at least one,

529
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: we're screwed.

530
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: They will use all the force of the law basically

531
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: to destroy its freedom. I mean, it's astonishing. I would

532
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: never have predicted this, both in my political career and

533
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: my profession as a historian. This is all a level

534
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: of decay beyond anything I could have imagined.

535
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: The thing that's amazing, we went back prior to starting

536
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: you and I were talking about this three hundred and

537
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: twenty thousand people that were flown into this country in secret.

538
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: I still can't get my head around the fact that

539
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: that's not a massive scandal, Like what is going on?

540
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: I mean, this is every single day something happens. I

541
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: go back and forth between saying to myself, maybe we

542
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: should just accept the craziness as this is what's going

543
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: to happen. But I can't believe that we are going

544
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: down the path that we are going down. To your point,

545
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: than thinking to myself five years ago, I would have

546
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: told you were nuts if you brought up a third

547
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: of what is happening now, you're going to kick someone

548
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: off a ballot. We're going to fly in three hundred

549
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: and twenty thousand people. I grew up in Rhode Island.

550
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: We have just under a million people depending on the year.

551
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: That's a third of the state flying in to make

552
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: sure that Biden can have more voters, which is what

553
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: it's really all about. And I just keep saying to myself,

554
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: like this is insane. How are we not outraged by

555
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: these tactics? But every day they chip away, chip away,

556
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: chip away.

557
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: Somebody can actually do a book just entitled scandals. Every

558
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: chapter would be different, and every chapter would be appalling,

559
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: and you couldn't quite believe it. We live in remarkable times.

560
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: This is the problem. I think we're getting numb to like, oh,

561
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: that was Tuesday, what's Wednesday, since the State of the

562
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: Union is this week. I remember watching Speaker Pelosi stand

563
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: there and tear up President Trump's State of the Union address,

564
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: standing at the rostrum, thinking to myself, there's no way,

565
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: there's no way that this is happening. The Speaker of

566
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: the House is tearing up the State of the Union address,

567
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: and she was applauded by the folks in the media

568
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: for taking a tough stand, and I'm like, what is

569
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: going on?

570
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: Well, there was a clever decision on her part to

571
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: guarantee that nobody would be talking about his speech. They

572
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: would be talking about what she did. It was cynical

573
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: and ruthless, but it was also pretty effective. Listen, Sean,

574
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. I want

575
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: to remind our listeners they can find your podcast, The

576
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: Shawn Spicer Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and

577
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: they can find out everything you're doing these days on

578
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: your website at Shawnspicer dot com. And I really appreciate

579
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: you joining me to talk about Super Tuesday and where

580
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: we're at right now.

581
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: Always an honor view with you I wouldn't be where

582
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: I am in politics, for good or bad without you

583
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: and all the ground that you laid with all the

584
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: things that you and your team, Joe Gaylor, Tony Blank,

585
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 2: countless folks that I looked up to as I started

586
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: up that ladder. So thank you for everything that you've

587
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: done for the movement, because that's what it was. The

588
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: Republican Contract with America got so many people excited and involved,

589
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: and I think there's a reason that people keep asking

590
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: you can we do another one? Because it was that consequential.

591
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: So thank you for being a friend and a mentor

592
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: and a leader of a movement that changed this country.

593
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Sean Spicer. You can learn

594
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: more about Super Tuesday results on our show page at

595
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: nisworld dot com. News World is produced by Gangwich three

596
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our

597
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was

598
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at

599
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying newts World, I

600
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us

601
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Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others

602
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now as a

603
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Speaker 1: Nutsworld consigner for my three free weekly columns, Gangwishtree sixty

604
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash newsletter, I'm nid Gandrich. This is nuts World,