1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,876 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Cheryl Lyn's Got to Be Real, Steely Dan's Black Friday, 2 00:00:24,356 --> 00:00:28,036 Speaker 1: Toto's Georgie Porgi all some of the most monster keyboard 3 00:00:28,076 --> 00:00:31,476 Speaker 1: piano grooves of all time, and they all have at 4 00:00:31,556 --> 00:00:35,476 Speaker 1: least one man in common. That's prolific musician and songwriter 5 00:00:35,796 --> 00:00:39,676 Speaker 1: David Page. David honed his chops early growing up in 6 00:00:39,796 --> 00:00:42,476 Speaker 1: la where he worked under the tutelage of his father, 7 00:00:42,676 --> 00:00:46,276 Speaker 1: Marty Pache, an esteem composer who worked with artists like 8 00:00:46,356 --> 00:00:51,476 Speaker 1: mel Tormat, Ray Charles, and even Ella Fitzgerald. While in 9 00:00:51,516 --> 00:00:55,436 Speaker 1: college at USC, David started playing keyboard professionally and touring 10 00:00:55,436 --> 00:00:57,956 Speaker 1: with Sonny and cher From there, he went on to 11 00:00:58,036 --> 00:01:00,676 Speaker 1: co write and play on Boss Gags multi platinum album 12 00:01:00,796 --> 00:01:04,636 Speaker 1: Silk Degrees. He also worked extensively with Quincy Jones, playing 13 00:01:04,676 --> 00:01:08,916 Speaker 1: up multiple iconic albums including Michael Jackson's Thriller and Bad. 14 00:01:09,996 --> 00:01:12,716 Speaker 1: All throughout his work as a session musician, David also 15 00:01:12,756 --> 00:01:16,316 Speaker 1: served as Toto's principal songwriter and wrote chart topping hits 16 00:01:16,356 --> 00:01:20,836 Speaker 1: like Rosanna, Hold the Line, and, of course, most famously, Africa. 17 00:01:22,076 --> 00:01:24,516 Speaker 1: On today's episode, I talked to David Page about what 18 00:01:24,556 --> 00:01:26,636 Speaker 1: it was like to be such an accomplished player at 19 00:01:26,636 --> 00:01:30,076 Speaker 1: such a young age. He shares crazy stories about working 20 00:01:30,116 --> 00:01:32,796 Speaker 1: with Michael Jackson and Quincy on Thriller and how he 21 00:01:32,836 --> 00:01:35,236 Speaker 1: came up with the intro to Michael Jackson's Human Nature, 22 00:01:35,476 --> 00:01:39,596 Speaker 1: probably the greatest keyboard riff of all time. David also 23 00:01:39,636 --> 00:01:41,876 Speaker 1: plays part some some of the best songs he's written 24 00:01:42,076 --> 00:01:47,316 Speaker 1: and talks about how they came to be. This is 25 00:01:47,396 --> 00:01:51,196 Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. 26 00:01:51,876 --> 00:01:56,356 Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with David Page. A few weeks ago, 27 00:01:56,636 --> 00:02:00,236 Speaker 1: I was on a run and Cheryl Lyn's got to 28 00:02:00,236 --> 00:02:02,476 Speaker 1: Be Real came all. I was on my run and 29 00:02:02,836 --> 00:02:06,236 Speaker 1: I was like, that's the perfect groove, Like the keyboard 30 00:02:06,436 --> 00:02:08,076 Speaker 1: is the perfect ground. Was like, I gotta go home 31 00:02:08,076 --> 00:02:09,836 Speaker 1: and learn that. So I went home trying to messing around, 32 00:02:09,876 --> 00:02:12,676 Speaker 1: and She's like, who played on this? I had no idea. 33 00:02:12,716 --> 00:02:15,716 Speaker 1: I looked it up and it was you. Yeah. I 34 00:02:15,756 --> 00:02:17,876 Speaker 1: was like, what the fuck? It was me? 35 00:02:17,876 --> 00:02:20,076 Speaker 2: Me and Ray Parker helped me put the rhythm section together. 36 00:02:20,116 --> 00:02:22,396 Speaker 2: We got Gadson and a guy that just moved out 37 00:02:22,396 --> 00:02:25,676 Speaker 2: from Detroit and played on the Emotions record named David Shields, 38 00:02:25,916 --> 00:02:27,836 Speaker 2: and that was like the last record he did was 39 00:02:27,876 --> 00:02:30,476 Speaker 2: like got to Be Real kind of thing. But that 40 00:02:30,556 --> 00:02:33,156 Speaker 2: was a great rhythm section, and uh we cut that 41 00:02:33,356 --> 00:02:36,676 Speaker 2: and uh it's one of my favorite R and B 42 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:38,476 Speaker 2: things that I've ever done, you know what I mean? 43 00:02:38,596 --> 00:02:41,596 Speaker 1: Do you mind playing just the I'll show you. 44 00:02:41,716 --> 00:02:44,396 Speaker 2: The song started this way with me coming in with 45 00:02:44,436 --> 00:02:46,876 Speaker 2: a riff and Cheryl started singing a little bit, and 46 00:02:46,916 --> 00:02:49,636 Speaker 2: then David Foster came in and we were I was 47 00:02:49,676 --> 00:02:53,236 Speaker 2: in Sunset sound and he came in and played a 48 00:02:53,236 --> 00:02:55,636 Speaker 2: little B section for me. You know, but a riff was. 49 00:03:16,716 --> 00:03:18,516 Speaker 1: Right, the greatest groove. 50 00:03:18,676 --> 00:03:20,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I heard a Mariah Carey song. It sounds 51 00:03:20,876 --> 00:03:23,156 Speaker 2: like it sounds just about like got to be Real. 52 00:03:23,476 --> 00:03:25,316 Speaker 2: She's got a song out where they just came out 53 00:03:25,356 --> 00:03:27,916 Speaker 2: right after that. Really it sounded like got to be Real. Yeah, 54 00:03:28,036 --> 00:03:32,396 Speaker 2: same changes, no, no, no, man like it's all good. 55 00:03:32,676 --> 00:03:32,876 Speaker 2: You know. 56 00:03:33,036 --> 00:03:34,636 Speaker 1: Your dad was a producer on that, right, I was 57 00:03:34,716 --> 00:03:35,276 Speaker 1: co producer. 58 00:03:35,276 --> 00:03:37,836 Speaker 2: We co produced that together. He kind of discovered her, 59 00:03:37,916 --> 00:03:41,156 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's nineteen seventy eight, nineteen 60 00:03:41,196 --> 00:03:45,276 Speaker 2: seventy eight, you're right, and you're called in by your dad. 61 00:03:45,756 --> 00:03:49,396 Speaker 2: My dad made a call to someone at Sony, which 62 00:03:49,476 --> 00:03:51,796 Speaker 2: was CBS at the time, and so I just heard 63 00:03:51,796 --> 00:03:56,156 Speaker 2: this girl. He had a friend that worked Butler, I 64 00:03:56,196 --> 00:03:59,956 Speaker 2: forget what his first name was, the jazz department at Sony, 65 00:04:00,396 --> 00:04:01,996 Speaker 2: and my dad called him and said, I just heard 66 00:04:02,036 --> 00:04:06,076 Speaker 2: this girl on the Gong Show, Cherylnn. And he says, well, 67 00:04:06,116 --> 00:04:08,396 Speaker 2: funny enough, we're trying to do an album with her 68 00:04:08,436 --> 00:04:10,796 Speaker 2: right now, some cuts with her, and so they gave 69 00:04:10,796 --> 00:04:12,836 Speaker 2: it to my dad. My dad, I was had come 70 00:04:12,876 --> 00:04:16,436 Speaker 2: off with Silk Degrees with bos Skaggs, so my dad said, well, 71 00:04:16,476 --> 00:04:19,356 Speaker 2: if I team up with David, let's co produce this thing. 72 00:04:19,476 --> 00:04:22,116 Speaker 2: So we ended up co producing her first album, you. 73 00:04:22,036 --> 00:04:25,276 Speaker 1: Know, and David Foster is a part of that. 74 00:04:25,396 --> 00:04:27,036 Speaker 2: He is a part of that. He came in just 75 00:04:27,036 --> 00:04:29,996 Speaker 2: for a second. I was at Sunset Sound and Foster 76 00:04:30,196 --> 00:04:31,996 Speaker 2: just came over to hear what we were doing, and 77 00:04:32,036 --> 00:04:34,036 Speaker 2: I said, I'm working on the song. Got to be real, 78 00:04:34,116 --> 00:04:40,076 Speaker 2: so you know, he went and I went and he did. 79 00:04:49,996 --> 00:05:00,276 Speaker 1: You know. You know, so when you're called in to 80 00:05:00,396 --> 00:05:02,676 Speaker 1: work on a song like that or I mean, obviously this, 81 00:05:02,756 --> 00:05:04,516 Speaker 1: you're a bigger part of this project in general, But 82 00:05:04,516 --> 00:05:06,956 Speaker 1: when you're working on a song like that, how did 83 00:05:06,956 --> 00:05:09,476 Speaker 1: that riff come to be? Like how did well. 84 00:05:09,556 --> 00:05:12,996 Speaker 2: I heard it was kind of influenced by the emotions 85 00:05:13,036 --> 00:05:15,356 Speaker 2: to the song called Best of My Love. Yes, and 86 00:05:15,396 --> 00:05:20,796 Speaker 2: I heard don and I like that beat, but I 87 00:05:20,796 --> 00:05:27,596 Speaker 2: always like putting the hump in it, you know, you know? 88 00:05:27,796 --> 00:05:29,836 Speaker 2: And I dansting on drums, you know what I mean. 89 00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:31,516 Speaker 2: He just killed it, you know what I mean. 90 00:05:32,556 --> 00:05:36,036 Speaker 1: Yeah, And at the same time, after I found that out, 91 00:05:36,156 --> 00:05:37,756 Speaker 1: I was looking at the year seventy eight, and I 92 00:05:37,796 --> 00:05:41,796 Speaker 1: realized at the same time that that record is huge. 93 00:05:42,236 --> 00:05:43,956 Speaker 1: You're putting out Toto's first. 94 00:05:44,076 --> 00:05:49,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, first album. And consequently Cheryl sang on Georgie. 95 00:05:48,596 --> 00:05:50,476 Speaker 1: Porgie Porgie, which I never knew that was her. 96 00:05:50,676 --> 00:05:52,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was her. She just came in because we 97 00:05:52,756 --> 00:05:54,476 Speaker 2: weren't going to do put the song on, because I 98 00:05:54,636 --> 00:05:56,916 Speaker 2: get to the part I'd just say it Georgie Pogi 99 00:05:57,036 --> 00:05:59,796 Speaker 2: put and it was just like whitebread, you know what 100 00:05:59,796 --> 00:06:02,156 Speaker 2: I mean. And Cheryllynn heard it and she goes, well, 101 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:04,996 Speaker 2: let me sing that, and she goes Georgie Polgy put 102 00:06:05,796 --> 00:06:07,796 Speaker 2: kiss the Girls and we crossed over under the R 103 00:06:07,836 --> 00:06:10,716 Speaker 2: and B market had sold like a million copies. 104 00:06:10,756 --> 00:06:13,596 Speaker 1: Man, So do you remember writing that song Georgie? 105 00:06:14,276 --> 00:06:17,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was listening to a lot of dance music. 106 00:06:17,916 --> 00:06:20,196 Speaker 2: I was listening to a lot of Verry White because 107 00:06:20,236 --> 00:06:22,676 Speaker 2: he had started his stuff with piano, and I was 108 00:06:22,716 --> 00:06:26,316 Speaker 2: listening to Quincy Jones on I Want You album with 109 00:06:26,356 --> 00:06:32,116 Speaker 2: Marvin Gaye, and because my friend, uh leon Ware was 110 00:06:32,156 --> 00:06:34,836 Speaker 2: a friend of my dad's and I had written something 111 00:06:34,876 --> 00:06:38,116 Speaker 2: with leon Ware, and I was very influenced by that 112 00:06:38,156 --> 00:06:41,276 Speaker 2: album and that Chuck Rainey and Gadson on and those 113 00:06:41,276 --> 00:06:43,956 Speaker 2: guys beautiful sound I Want You, you know what I mean. 114 00:06:44,356 --> 00:06:45,596 Speaker 2: And it was very much that. 115 00:06:52,356 --> 00:06:55,196 Speaker 1: H m hm hm. 116 00:06:57,276 --> 00:07:05,596 Speaker 2: I it was kind of very white thing. Remember very white? 117 00:07:05,636 --> 00:07:17,236 Speaker 2: Did you know? It's kind of came out of that era, 118 00:07:17,476 --> 00:07:18,076 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. 119 00:07:19,276 --> 00:07:21,756 Speaker 1: This is your first album with Toto. Now you're accomplished. 120 00:07:21,796 --> 00:07:23,196 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it. But you mean, you've played on 121 00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:26,436 Speaker 1: so many records throughout the seventies. How are you thinking 122 00:07:26,436 --> 00:07:29,876 Speaker 1: about writing this song? You have that wonderful piece, You 123 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:32,556 Speaker 1: maybe have that second part, that Bury White rind and piece. 124 00:07:32,596 --> 00:07:34,076 Speaker 1: How you put it together? The lyrics. 125 00:07:34,116 --> 00:07:36,956 Speaker 2: That's just because I've learned to get the form of 126 00:07:36,996 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 2: a song right, to have a verse, a B section, 127 00:07:39,316 --> 00:07:41,596 Speaker 2: and a chorus and then kind of an maybe an 128 00:07:41,636 --> 00:07:43,996 Speaker 2: instrumental or a bridge, and I'm not a big fan 129 00:07:44,076 --> 00:07:47,556 Speaker 2: of bridges. I used to like verse chorus instrumental and 130 00:07:47,596 --> 00:07:49,876 Speaker 2: take it out, no bridge for you bridge because people, 131 00:07:50,076 --> 00:07:52,476 Speaker 2: well they kind of throw bridges away. I like the 132 00:07:52,476 --> 00:07:54,916 Speaker 2: Beatles and Elton and these guys. When they write a bridge, 133 00:07:55,156 --> 00:07:57,516 Speaker 2: it's like it lifts the song, which is what a 134 00:07:57,516 --> 00:07:59,156 Speaker 2: bridge should do to be, you know what I mean? 135 00:07:59,236 --> 00:08:02,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, at what point would you take 136 00:08:02,796 --> 00:08:04,396 Speaker 1: a song like that to the rest of the group. 137 00:08:04,876 --> 00:08:06,756 Speaker 2: Right as soon as we start gotting our deal, and 138 00:08:06,796 --> 00:08:10,196 Speaker 2: I've been playing this a little bit song a little 139 00:08:10,236 --> 00:08:12,836 Speaker 2: bit with Jeff. We would go and do sessions together 140 00:08:13,196 --> 00:08:15,796 Speaker 2: and on the breaks when everybody else was out of 141 00:08:15,836 --> 00:08:17,996 Speaker 2: the room, I'd started playing these things and Jeff was 142 00:08:18,196 --> 00:08:20,236 Speaker 2: getting to the group. So we rehearsed a lot of 143 00:08:20,236 --> 00:08:22,516 Speaker 2: our album on other people's records, you know what I mean, 144 00:08:22,556 --> 00:08:25,636 Speaker 2: playing just jamming on them when there's brakes or no 145 00:08:25,676 --> 00:08:27,796 Speaker 2: one's in the room or whatever. You know. So when 146 00:08:27,796 --> 00:08:29,316 Speaker 2: I got to the record, I had like two or 147 00:08:29,316 --> 00:08:31,476 Speaker 2: three things already cooking, you know what I mean. 148 00:08:32,036 --> 00:08:33,156 Speaker 1: How did you guys get your deal? 149 00:08:34,196 --> 00:08:36,996 Speaker 2: Interesting? We never had to perform live to get our 150 00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:39,396 Speaker 2: deal with like the only group and the only group 151 00:08:39,396 --> 00:08:43,196 Speaker 2: that got to produce itself. We had people named Don Ellis, 152 00:08:43,596 --> 00:08:46,956 Speaker 2: vice president of CBS, and a guy named Terry Powell. 153 00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:50,796 Speaker 2: And after we'd done the Boss Skaggs record So Degrees, 154 00:08:50,836 --> 00:08:53,316 Speaker 2: there was a lot of spotlight on us because we 155 00:08:53,316 --> 00:08:56,036 Speaker 2: were the rhythm section for that whole record. And then 156 00:08:56,076 --> 00:08:57,596 Speaker 2: we came in and went out on the road with 157 00:08:57,676 --> 00:09:01,316 Speaker 2: him too, and toured with Boss and so CBS was like, well, 158 00:09:01,316 --> 00:09:03,276 Speaker 2: why did you guys form a band? And we had 159 00:09:03,316 --> 00:09:05,876 Speaker 2: already been planning this whole thing since high school to 160 00:09:05,956 --> 00:09:08,996 Speaker 2: put our band back together high school band. So we 161 00:09:09,236 --> 00:09:11,596 Speaker 2: were like, oh, good, idea, you guys. We just we 162 00:09:11,636 --> 00:09:15,596 Speaker 2: started working on demos then, and I did miss Son 163 00:09:15,636 --> 00:09:18,636 Speaker 2: for a demo, which was Boss skag Song, a song 164 00:09:18,676 --> 00:09:22,156 Speaker 2: I wrote for Boz. And we just did some demos 165 00:09:22,196 --> 00:09:25,596 Speaker 2: and I started writing more, you know, getting into my writing, 166 00:09:25,956 --> 00:09:27,116 Speaker 2: and it just happened. 167 00:09:27,276 --> 00:09:29,916 Speaker 1: And because you guys were so adept in the studio, 168 00:09:29,996 --> 00:09:31,916 Speaker 1: they were totally comfortable letting you guys, just. 169 00:09:32,076 --> 00:09:34,996 Speaker 2: As they were letting us do whatever we wanted to do. 170 00:09:35,116 --> 00:09:37,596 Speaker 1: You know, you know, what does it feel like to 171 00:09:37,636 --> 00:09:40,396 Speaker 1: be you in nineteen seventy eight? I mean Georgia Porgy's 172 00:09:40,396 --> 00:09:40,836 Speaker 1: on the radio. 173 00:09:40,956 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 2: Hold the lines on the radio. Yes, yeah, it was 174 00:09:43,876 --> 00:09:46,316 Speaker 2: great to be on the radio. First time we heard 175 00:09:46,316 --> 00:09:49,996 Speaker 2: ourselves on the radio. We we all called each other 176 00:09:50,076 --> 00:09:52,036 Speaker 2: so fast in the radio. I was at my sister's 177 00:09:52,276 --> 00:09:56,996 Speaker 2: apartment and I heard this thing piano I heard and 178 00:09:57,036 --> 00:10:00,196 Speaker 2: I said, that sounds really familiar, said, it sounds like me. 179 00:10:00,276 --> 00:10:03,636 Speaker 2: It actually sounds like me playing. Oh fuck, that's our record. 180 00:10:03,836 --> 00:10:06,236 Speaker 2: It's on the radio. And every we were all calling 181 00:10:06,236 --> 00:10:09,756 Speaker 2: the radio stations requesting it and ship like that like teenagers, 182 00:10:09,796 --> 00:10:10,316 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. 183 00:10:10,996 --> 00:10:13,076 Speaker 1: And it did it feel different with it actually being 184 00:10:13,156 --> 00:10:15,116 Speaker 1: your group, Yes, your song versus. 185 00:10:15,596 --> 00:10:18,556 Speaker 2: And we were like, we were like screaming kids, you 186 00:10:18,596 --> 00:10:20,596 Speaker 2: know what I mean. Oh my god, I can't believe it. 187 00:10:20,836 --> 00:10:22,676 Speaker 2: We were tried calling each other and all the lines 188 00:10:22,716 --> 00:10:24,276 Speaker 2: were busy because we were all calling each other. 189 00:10:24,276 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 1: Calling each other, calling the radio. 190 00:10:25,956 --> 00:10:29,116 Speaker 2: That's right, all calling all of our friends request the song. 191 00:10:29,436 --> 00:10:31,396 Speaker 2: You know what I mean. Because back to then, if 192 00:10:31,396 --> 00:10:34,316 Speaker 2: you have people called in enough, they'd added to the station. 193 00:10:34,476 --> 00:10:35,716 Speaker 1: You know what station? 194 00:10:35,756 --> 00:10:38,636 Speaker 2: Were you guys first getting played on kJ R UP 195 00:10:38,676 --> 00:10:41,996 Speaker 2: in Seattle. There was a guy named Steve West who 196 00:10:42,036 --> 00:10:44,676 Speaker 2: was a friend of our managers because our managers had 197 00:10:44,716 --> 00:10:49,236 Speaker 2: managed Chicago and RUFUS amazing, that's what they had, and 198 00:10:49,276 --> 00:10:53,516 Speaker 2: so they knew program directors all around the United States. 199 00:10:53,756 --> 00:10:55,756 Speaker 2: So this guy they hopped on it, and as soon 200 00:10:55,796 --> 00:10:58,236 Speaker 2: as a p one which is the top radio stations 201 00:10:58,356 --> 00:11:00,796 Speaker 2: or p ones, as soon as he went on it, 202 00:11:00,796 --> 00:11:03,836 Speaker 2: it broke and everybody went on it, you know, and 203 00:11:03,836 --> 00:11:05,876 Speaker 2: then we ended up going double plattinum the record. 204 00:11:06,236 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 1: Obviously, if you listen to that first record, it's pretty 205 00:11:08,636 --> 00:11:11,916 Speaker 1: clear you got as are fluent musically, like you can 206 00:11:11,996 --> 00:11:15,636 Speaker 1: play anything. I was always curious if on the label 207 00:11:15,716 --> 00:11:18,636 Speaker 1: side or manager side, was there ever any like, well, 208 00:11:18,676 --> 00:11:21,356 Speaker 1: guys that hold the line feels very different from Georgie Porge. 209 00:11:21,396 --> 00:11:24,916 Speaker 2: Absolutely. They were like, there's a lot of the comments 210 00:11:24,916 --> 00:11:27,356 Speaker 2: where there's no thread. You guys don't have a sound. 211 00:11:27,396 --> 00:11:29,516 Speaker 2: What is your sound? We can't tell you if you're 212 00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:31,556 Speaker 2: an R and B group or you're a rock and 213 00:11:31,636 --> 00:11:35,636 Speaker 2: roll group or adult contemporary group. What are you? We 214 00:11:35,716 --> 00:11:37,556 Speaker 2: just said, this is it, this is what we are. 215 00:11:37,876 --> 00:11:38,876 Speaker 2: We do all this stuff. 216 00:11:39,036 --> 00:11:40,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean, because to your point, 217 00:11:40,876 --> 00:11:43,276 Speaker 1: Georgie Porgie feels like a song that would have like 218 00:11:43,356 --> 00:11:45,036 Speaker 1: you know, I mean the way they group things back then, 219 00:11:45,076 --> 00:11:46,556 Speaker 1: that would have been like a song would have been 220 00:11:46,556 --> 00:11:49,196 Speaker 1: a huge hit on black radio, the line there's no 221 00:11:49,236 --> 00:11:50,676 Speaker 1: way that would have ever played on you know. 222 00:11:50,836 --> 00:11:52,516 Speaker 2: Totally right, you know what I mean. It was all 223 00:11:52,836 --> 00:11:55,556 Speaker 2: thought of like that, you know, But that's why we 224 00:11:55,596 --> 00:11:57,556 Speaker 2: want to be different. We wanted to just do what 225 00:11:57,796 --> 00:12:00,716 Speaker 2: a good music of any kind, any genre. 226 00:12:00,836 --> 00:12:02,836 Speaker 1: You know, when you guys started going out on that record, 227 00:12:02,956 --> 00:12:04,956 Speaker 1: what were you noticing about your audience? Was it growing 228 00:12:04,956 --> 00:12:05,436 Speaker 1: over time? 229 00:12:05,556 --> 00:12:07,956 Speaker 2: It was? It was a little bit. You know, we 230 00:12:07,996 --> 00:12:12,156 Speaker 2: had we wait until we had again the double platinum 231 00:12:12,196 --> 00:12:15,196 Speaker 2: album before we went out and started touring a little bit. 232 00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:15,476 Speaker 2: You know. 233 00:12:15,716 --> 00:12:17,756 Speaker 1: That was uncommon then too. I mean that's a common 234 00:12:18,356 --> 00:12:21,396 Speaker 1: occurrence now that someone has this huge album or huge 235 00:12:21,396 --> 00:12:22,716 Speaker 1: song and then has to go figure out how to 236 00:12:22,716 --> 00:12:26,156 Speaker 1: go do a lot. That's right, That's right. Less common then, yeah. 237 00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:27,916 Speaker 2: Less common then. Yeah, you had to kind of work 238 00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:30,476 Speaker 2: your way up and make an audience. But the thing happened. 239 00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:33,676 Speaker 2: It broke in Europe. Now we didn't know what Europe 240 00:12:33,716 --> 00:12:36,196 Speaker 2: was all about. Europe In Amsterdam, there was a guy 241 00:12:36,236 --> 00:12:39,636 Speaker 2: named big Al who was the DJ there and he 242 00:12:39,756 --> 00:12:43,156 Speaker 2: broke I think hold the line there at Amsterdam and 243 00:12:43,276 --> 00:12:48,036 Speaker 2: Europe just went nuts, like beatle crazy nuts over this stuff. 244 00:12:48,436 --> 00:12:51,676 Speaker 2: So when we did a promotional tour there, they took 245 00:12:51,716 --> 00:12:53,396 Speaker 2: us around to all the clubs where they were playing 246 00:12:53,396 --> 00:12:55,996 Speaker 2: their music and it was just like it was great, 247 00:12:56,116 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. There was just so many 248 00:12:57,436 --> 00:13:01,236 Speaker 2: people screaming and everything like that. But he broke our record, 249 00:13:01,396 --> 00:13:04,076 Speaker 2: and then we started getting offers for gigs with good 250 00:13:04,156 --> 00:13:07,796 Speaker 2: money back then to come in and play shows, you know, 251 00:13:07,876 --> 00:13:11,236 Speaker 2: to headline and should O were in Europe and stuff. 252 00:13:11,356 --> 00:13:14,476 Speaker 2: So Europe has just been a big cash cow and 253 00:13:14,556 --> 00:13:19,276 Speaker 2: a great long, multi generational audience for us since then. 254 00:13:19,636 --> 00:13:22,276 Speaker 2: And they never even you cannot have a hit record 255 00:13:22,276 --> 00:13:24,356 Speaker 2: for a long time, and they're still becoming to your 256 00:13:24,596 --> 00:13:28,236 Speaker 2: concerts and stuff like that, very loyal fans and great 257 00:13:28,396 --> 00:13:30,436 Speaker 2: music audiences over Europe. 258 00:13:30,596 --> 00:13:33,196 Speaker 1: You had your your like an incredible career as a 259 00:13:33,196 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 1: as a studio guy at the time. Were you thinking 260 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:38,716 Speaker 1: for sure that first record was going to be what 261 00:13:38,796 --> 00:13:39,996 Speaker 1: it was that would have. 262 00:13:39,876 --> 00:13:41,596 Speaker 2: The people were planning on it. 263 00:13:41,596 --> 00:13:41,876 Speaker 1: We were. 264 00:13:42,396 --> 00:13:45,116 Speaker 2: We always had confidence in ourselves. It's some one thing total. 265 00:13:45,196 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 2: Did we knew what we could do if we got 266 00:13:47,876 --> 00:13:49,036 Speaker 2: the chance, you know what I mean? 267 00:13:49,196 --> 00:13:51,516 Speaker 1: So you guys were ready to become the main show. 268 00:13:52,236 --> 00:13:54,516 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we were shooting for the big time the 269 00:13:54,636 --> 00:13:55,196 Speaker 2: whole time. 270 00:13:55,476 --> 00:13:58,076 Speaker 1: So tell me a bit about growing up. What were 271 00:13:58,116 --> 00:13:58,756 Speaker 1: you for some encounters. 272 00:13:59,076 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 2: I grew up in Resita till I was five and 273 00:14:03,596 --> 00:14:06,516 Speaker 2: my father. I remember my father playing piano. He had 274 00:14:06,556 --> 00:14:08,756 Speaker 2: a piano room there. You did all his writing, and 275 00:14:08,796 --> 00:14:11,516 Speaker 2: I'm in we were hearing the Blues in the Night 276 00:14:12,196 --> 00:14:17,596 Speaker 2: in there, my mom and then told me, you know, 277 00:14:17,636 --> 00:14:19,276 Speaker 2: Blues in the Night. He had done a version with 278 00:14:19,316 --> 00:14:22,516 Speaker 2: Elephantz Cheryl and mel Tourmee, And so that was the 279 00:14:22,516 --> 00:14:25,276 Speaker 2: first song that I picked out on a piano. My 280 00:14:25,356 --> 00:14:27,356 Speaker 2: dad heard me picking it out, so he said, you 281 00:14:27,356 --> 00:14:29,236 Speaker 2: need to know how to play that. Then I started 282 00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:31,596 Speaker 2: taking piano lessons and stuff. That's who you knew that 283 00:14:31,636 --> 00:14:33,716 Speaker 2: I had some kind of gift, you know. 284 00:14:34,036 --> 00:14:34,956 Speaker 1: And you were a kid kid at that. 285 00:14:35,036 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like five five, okay, But I didn't 286 00:14:37,836 --> 00:14:39,756 Speaker 2: start studying piano until I was eight because I got 287 00:14:39,756 --> 00:14:43,076 Speaker 2: into drums. My dad was using a drummer named Shelley Mann. 288 00:14:43,516 --> 00:14:45,436 Speaker 2: Shelley Mann just did a whole bunch of things with 289 00:14:45,476 --> 00:14:48,556 Speaker 2: Bill Evans, and he did all the Mansini stuff. He 290 00:14:48,556 --> 00:14:51,396 Speaker 2: had to Shelley the Man and the Manhole his club. 291 00:14:51,836 --> 00:14:53,356 Speaker 2: But I used to sit next to him and just 292 00:14:53,396 --> 00:14:55,396 Speaker 2: watch him play drums, and that's all I could think 293 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 2: about twenty four hours a day was drums. 294 00:14:57,596 --> 00:14:57,956 Speaker 1: Wow. 295 00:14:57,996 --> 00:15:00,996 Speaker 2: And then I started getting more serious about a piano 296 00:15:01,476 --> 00:15:03,436 Speaker 2: when my dad said, you know, if you have to 297 00:15:03,436 --> 00:15:05,996 Speaker 2: get your technique together, you're not going to be able 298 00:15:05,996 --> 00:15:08,476 Speaker 2: to make it. So I got a warning. I got 299 00:15:08,476 --> 00:15:10,756 Speaker 2: a wake up call early, and by the time I 300 00:15:10,796 --> 00:15:13,756 Speaker 2: was twelve, I started studying classical music. My dad put 301 00:15:13,796 --> 00:15:16,156 Speaker 2: me with a classical teacher and I started, you know, 302 00:15:16,316 --> 00:15:18,076 Speaker 2: going through all the literature and stuff like that. 303 00:15:18,116 --> 00:15:19,876 Speaker 1: Were you into it at that time? Get into the 304 00:15:19,876 --> 00:15:20,276 Speaker 1: class No? 305 00:15:20,636 --> 00:15:22,876 Speaker 2: Okay, no, but I do. I wanted to be a 306 00:15:22,916 --> 00:15:26,556 Speaker 2: professional musician. So I was like, whatever it takes, this 307 00:15:26,596 --> 00:15:27,796 Speaker 2: is the world I'm going down. 308 00:15:28,116 --> 00:15:30,236 Speaker 1: Fine, even it feels like it's taking you further away 309 00:15:30,356 --> 00:15:32,236 Speaker 1: from even if it's like it's hard and it has 310 00:15:32,236 --> 00:15:34,756 Speaker 1: nothing to do with rock and jazz, you know, but 311 00:15:34,836 --> 00:15:35,316 Speaker 1: I knew that. 312 00:15:35,396 --> 00:15:38,396 Speaker 2: My dad said, Oscar Peterson study classical. All these guys 313 00:15:38,396 --> 00:15:40,596 Speaker 2: study classical, you know, so if you want to play 314 00:15:40,636 --> 00:15:43,276 Speaker 2: like Oscar, you better spend the time, you know. 315 00:15:43,396 --> 00:15:45,556 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times kids want to 316 00:15:45,716 --> 00:15:48,556 Speaker 1: buck their parents or you know, my dad was a 317 00:15:48,716 --> 00:15:51,676 Speaker 1: played football and so I wanted nothing to do with football, 318 00:15:51,876 --> 00:15:54,516 Speaker 1: you know, professional. He did play professionally for a bit 319 00:15:54,596 --> 00:15:55,356 Speaker 1: and got injured. 320 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:58,316 Speaker 2: But ooh man, I'm a big NFL nut. 321 00:15:58,556 --> 00:16:01,716 Speaker 1: Everyone is, and I'm not, just honestly because because it 322 00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:04,796 Speaker 1: was just too prosibly like everything was. 323 00:16:04,836 --> 00:16:07,556 Speaker 2: Like, oh yeah, I bet, I bet you were just. 324 00:16:07,596 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 1: Smothered with that shit. Within I was just like, you know, 325 00:16:09,956 --> 00:16:11,756 Speaker 1: I want to go. I want to go do music 326 00:16:11,876 --> 00:16:13,396 Speaker 1: or whatever. I mean, what do you think it is 327 00:16:13,436 --> 00:16:15,396 Speaker 1: about your relationship with your dad that allowed you to 328 00:16:16,276 --> 00:16:18,516 Speaker 1: connect with them with what he does professionally? 329 00:16:18,556 --> 00:16:21,276 Speaker 2: Well, because I love music and I was a very 330 00:16:21,396 --> 00:16:24,516 Speaker 2: quiet kid, and you had to be quiet in those days. 331 00:16:24,516 --> 00:16:28,036 Speaker 2: You couldn't talk at all when the music studio with 332 00:16:28,076 --> 00:16:31,116 Speaker 2: my dad. There's no talking log with musicians or anything 333 00:16:31,276 --> 00:16:33,356 Speaker 2: like that. You have to be. It was a deaf mute, 334 00:16:33,676 --> 00:16:35,756 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So me and my dad 335 00:16:35,796 --> 00:16:38,716 Speaker 2: got along real great, and he showed me how to 336 00:16:38,716 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 2: do things, you know, and we watched football and baseball 337 00:16:41,716 --> 00:16:45,116 Speaker 2: together and stuff. But he was always working. So the 338 00:16:45,196 --> 00:16:47,716 Speaker 2: first job I had, Joseph Williams and I talk about 339 00:16:47,716 --> 00:16:49,676 Speaker 2: this all the time because my dad was peers with 340 00:16:49,756 --> 00:16:52,676 Speaker 2: John Williams. They were good friends, Joseph. When I talk 341 00:16:52,716 --> 00:16:56,636 Speaker 2: about our first jobs as students to them were sharpening 342 00:16:56,676 --> 00:16:59,156 Speaker 2: his pencils and making sure they didn't run out over racers. 343 00:16:59,756 --> 00:17:02,236 Speaker 2: That's your job. You sit in a room all day long, 344 00:17:02,676 --> 00:17:06,356 Speaker 2: not say a word, and just hear you hear on 345 00:17:06,556 --> 00:17:10,116 Speaker 2: sharpening pencils in the room, like all day long. 346 00:17:10,516 --> 00:17:11,156 Speaker 1: Amazing. 347 00:17:11,476 --> 00:17:14,436 Speaker 2: That's what we did. And finally started I start singing 348 00:17:14,476 --> 00:17:16,636 Speaker 2: a few things. My dad goes, can sing me a 349 00:17:16,636 --> 00:17:19,476 Speaker 2: line here for this, and I'd sing a line in 350 00:17:19,516 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 2: an arrangement and he'd use it, you know what I mean. 351 00:17:21,436 --> 00:17:22,556 Speaker 1: He was composing arranging. 352 00:17:22,596 --> 00:17:25,756 Speaker 2: He was composing and arranging for the fifth dimension. He 353 00:17:25,796 --> 00:17:28,356 Speaker 2: did up, up and a way for them, you know. 354 00:17:28,436 --> 00:17:31,156 Speaker 2: He did the produced and arrange the way we were 355 00:17:31,476 --> 00:17:35,636 Speaker 2: for Barbara Streissan and all these big orchestral things. You know. 356 00:17:35,756 --> 00:17:37,956 Speaker 2: So and I got to help him on those arrangements. 357 00:17:37,996 --> 00:17:40,316 Speaker 1: You know, once you got to a certain level, would 358 00:17:40,316 --> 00:17:43,516 Speaker 1: he show you how he approached Yes, those things. 359 00:17:43,236 --> 00:17:46,596 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I got them. And he'd a master's degree 360 00:17:46,876 --> 00:17:50,356 Speaker 2: in music composition, so he knew how to teach me. 361 00:17:50,596 --> 00:17:52,716 Speaker 2: But he'd never stopped writing. He was a writing machine 362 00:17:52,756 --> 00:17:55,916 Speaker 2: like John Williams. Same thing, the writing machine, you know 363 00:17:56,036 --> 00:17:58,956 Speaker 2: all they do. You just see him writing pencil to paper, 364 00:17:59,076 --> 00:18:02,436 Speaker 2: you know. And it's amazing what those guys can that 365 00:18:02,676 --> 00:18:05,876 Speaker 2: neew because of their classical training, how that would translate 366 00:18:05,996 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 2: to orchestra, you know, when you just have a piano. 367 00:18:08,716 --> 00:18:11,436 Speaker 2: Guys now because they can play a synthem, they can 368 00:18:11,516 --> 00:18:13,756 Speaker 2: play a string sound, they can play a flute sound, 369 00:18:13,796 --> 00:18:16,436 Speaker 2: you can hear. Oh that'll work, you know what I mean. 370 00:18:16,676 --> 00:18:19,796 Speaker 2: Where back then they just had pianos, you know, you 371 00:18:20,076 --> 00:18:22,876 Speaker 2: have samplers and all that stuff. You know. So my 372 00:18:22,996 --> 00:18:27,116 Speaker 2: dad taught me. Literally, I was as apprentice for twenty years. 373 00:18:27,156 --> 00:18:28,916 Speaker 2: You know, gosh, it was great. 374 00:18:28,956 --> 00:18:30,916 Speaker 1: Did he have any like maxims or things he would 375 00:18:30,916 --> 00:18:32,716 Speaker 1: always return to and things he'd always tell you, like 376 00:18:32,756 --> 00:18:34,916 Speaker 1: things had lots of rules. 377 00:18:35,076 --> 00:18:38,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably like your dad had some rules. 378 00:18:38,636 --> 00:18:40,316 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good about that. 379 00:18:40,436 --> 00:18:42,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad was like, you know, hey, the melody, 380 00:18:42,876 --> 00:18:45,036 Speaker 2: the singer is the most important part. Make sure you 381 00:18:45,036 --> 00:18:48,676 Speaker 2: can hear the melody, the singer, the singers, the whole thing, 382 00:18:49,036 --> 00:18:51,476 Speaker 2: the singer and the song, you know, and you're you're 383 00:18:51,556 --> 00:18:54,196 Speaker 2: just servicing the singer, you know, and he worked with 384 00:18:54,276 --> 00:19:02,196 Speaker 2: just great singers, you know, Lena Horne, Sammy Davis, Jesse Belvin, Ella, 385 00:19:02,516 --> 00:19:07,156 Speaker 2: Sarah vaugh Ray, Charles, I mean everyone insane. 386 00:19:07,356 --> 00:19:09,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, at what point did you realize that talent level 387 00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:11,516 Speaker 1: of talent your dad was working with. 388 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:14,116 Speaker 2: I didn't until we would start. We would start going 389 00:19:14,116 --> 00:19:17,116 Speaker 2: to shows at the Greek Theater and Sammy Davis would 390 00:19:17,156 --> 00:19:19,556 Speaker 2: be there or somebody like that, and they'd introduce my dad, 391 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:22,676 Speaker 2: put a spotlight on him in the audience, and I went, wow, 392 00:19:22,996 --> 00:19:25,676 Speaker 2: my dad would stand up, everybody applauding for him, you know, 393 00:19:25,716 --> 00:19:29,316 Speaker 2: And once I heard that, that's pretty cool, amazing. Yeah, 394 00:19:30,036 --> 00:19:33,116 Speaker 2: just be a kid in your and everybody respects your dad. 395 00:19:33,156 --> 00:19:37,276 Speaker 2: That's all they got. All the adults who worked for 396 00:19:37,396 --> 00:19:39,876 Speaker 2: my dad were super nice to me. They treated me 397 00:19:39,916 --> 00:19:42,276 Speaker 2: like I was an adult. And they were all dressed 398 00:19:42,316 --> 00:19:45,476 Speaker 2: so cool. They're just like all the dressing guys came from, 399 00:19:45,516 --> 00:19:48,596 Speaker 2: like Ellington's band, the way those guys would gold cuff 400 00:19:48,636 --> 00:19:52,916 Speaker 2: links and loose ties and hats on and lots of 401 00:19:52,956 --> 00:19:55,156 Speaker 2: jewelry and all this stuff, you know. Where I was like, 402 00:19:55,356 --> 00:19:57,956 Speaker 2: I was looking at my school teachers like this is 403 00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:00,396 Speaker 2: boring right here. You know. I'd go with my dad's 404 00:20:00,396 --> 00:20:03,556 Speaker 2: guys and they're all dressed shark and they're super nice 405 00:20:03,596 --> 00:20:06,836 Speaker 2: and smoking cigarettes, doing shit, you know. So it was 406 00:20:07,196 --> 00:20:10,316 Speaker 2: a cool existence. It was like the jazz area. Jazz 407 00:20:10,356 --> 00:20:12,996 Speaker 2: area was still there. My dad was still making jazz 408 00:20:13,356 --> 00:20:15,636 Speaker 2: records with singers at the time, so I got to 409 00:20:15,636 --> 00:20:18,196 Speaker 2: see that crossover when I was a kid. 410 00:20:18,836 --> 00:20:20,636 Speaker 1: We have to pause for a quick break, and then 411 00:20:20,676 --> 00:20:24,156 Speaker 1: we'll come back with more of my conversation with David Page. 412 00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:31,356 Speaker 1: We're back with more from David Page. You told me 413 00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:32,996 Speaker 1: when you were before I started recording, that you were 414 00:20:33,076 --> 00:20:34,996 Speaker 1: fourteen when when you met Quincy Jones for. 415 00:20:34,996 --> 00:20:36,916 Speaker 2: The first song was fourteen. When I met Quincy, my 416 00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:41,356 Speaker 2: dad was working on a one to Quincy's solo's album, 417 00:20:41,596 --> 00:20:44,156 Speaker 2: and I forget the name of the album, but the 418 00:20:44,276 --> 00:20:46,796 Speaker 2: song was called The Anderson Files and it was a 419 00:20:46,996 --> 00:20:49,036 Speaker 2: Sean Conry movie that had come out. Quincy had done 420 00:20:49,036 --> 00:20:51,396 Speaker 2: the music for well. Quincy used to throw my dad 421 00:20:51,556 --> 00:20:54,916 Speaker 2: have my dad ghost for him ghost arrange, and my 422 00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:56,756 Speaker 2: dad did a couple of charts for him, and I 423 00:20:56,756 --> 00:20:59,676 Speaker 2: got to help my dad with those charts, sing a 424 00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:02,116 Speaker 2: couple of lines to him. You know, and so I 425 00:21:02,156 --> 00:21:04,436 Speaker 2: went to Quincy's house and I think it was Benning 426 00:21:04,516 --> 00:21:07,316 Speaker 2: at Canyon at the time. I think you lived there 427 00:21:07,316 --> 00:21:11,436 Speaker 2: at bel Air and anyway met him, and you know, 428 00:21:11,596 --> 00:21:13,516 Speaker 2: I've I ended up working for him later on the 429 00:21:13,556 --> 00:21:17,636 Speaker 2: Thriller album and James Ingram and Patty Austin stuff like that. 430 00:21:18,196 --> 00:21:21,716 Speaker 2: So it was he's been we've been family members. Quincy 431 00:21:21,876 --> 00:21:23,756 Speaker 2: with us first since I was a kid, you know. 432 00:21:23,876 --> 00:21:26,876 Speaker 1: So crazy. So you're a kid and you're immersed in 433 00:21:26,916 --> 00:21:30,716 Speaker 1: this world of jazz through your father, through just your 434 00:21:30,756 --> 00:21:33,316 Speaker 1: interest too, and you're learning and oscopias and z heroes, 435 00:21:33,356 --> 00:21:37,036 Speaker 1: you're picking up classical music, trying to get ready, and 436 00:21:37,036 --> 00:21:40,876 Speaker 1: then the seventies hit and you started doing some incredible 437 00:21:41,276 --> 00:21:42,676 Speaker 1: sessions like really young. 438 00:21:42,916 --> 00:21:45,236 Speaker 2: Yeah. The first hit record I did was Seals and 439 00:21:45,316 --> 00:21:49,076 Speaker 2: Croft's Diamond Girl. Okay, that was a very that was 440 00:21:49,116 --> 00:21:50,956 Speaker 2: one of the first sessions. But that was the first 441 00:21:51,036 --> 00:21:53,476 Speaker 2: hit record I had. And once I had that, the 442 00:21:53,636 --> 00:21:56,756 Speaker 2: word got around and I started getting calls for sessions. 443 00:21:56,956 --> 00:21:59,036 Speaker 1: I heard a story about you being at USC that 444 00:21:59,156 --> 00:21:59,396 Speaker 1: was me. 445 00:21:59,596 --> 00:22:01,356 Speaker 2: That was that was during that time, and you got 446 00:22:01,356 --> 00:22:05,316 Speaker 2: a call from Jackson Brown, Jackson Brown, and it was 447 00:22:05,356 --> 00:22:07,916 Speaker 2: so funny because it was like USC at the time. 448 00:22:08,436 --> 00:22:10,036 Speaker 2: In the dorm I was in, which is an all 449 00:22:10,116 --> 00:22:13,276 Speaker 2: boy dorm, it was like animal house, you know what 450 00:22:13,356 --> 00:22:16,596 Speaker 2: I mean. I mean there were guys showing movies, throwing 451 00:22:16,636 --> 00:22:19,396 Speaker 2: parties and shit, and and there was only fifth phone 452 00:22:19,396 --> 00:22:21,836 Speaker 2: at the time. No one had cell phones. It was 453 00:22:21,836 --> 00:22:24,276 Speaker 2: a payphone in the hallway. And the guy knocks on 454 00:22:24,356 --> 00:22:26,636 Speaker 2: my door and I'm in the room doing something I 455 00:22:26,676 --> 00:22:29,956 Speaker 2: forget and he says, there's a guy named Jackson Brown 456 00:22:29,956 --> 00:22:32,236 Speaker 2: on the phone for you. Don't hang up on it. 457 00:22:32,396 --> 00:22:34,076 Speaker 2: When I got in the hallway and he goes like, 458 00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:36,836 Speaker 2: where the hell are you at. It sounds, you know, 459 00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:38,916 Speaker 2: because people are screaming and doing all kinds of shit, 460 00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:40,556 Speaker 2: And he says, we want you to come down and 461 00:22:40,596 --> 00:22:44,476 Speaker 2: play on his for every Man record down at Sunset 462 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:47,796 Speaker 2: and I played on a song called these Days where 463 00:22:47,876 --> 00:22:48,636 Speaker 2: Jackson there's. 464 00:22:48,516 --> 00:22:51,276 Speaker 1: Incredible signature songs that he wrote when he was a kid. 465 00:22:51,316 --> 00:22:54,476 Speaker 2: And yeah, Nico did, and yeah that John Hayney was 466 00:22:54,516 --> 00:22:58,116 Speaker 2: there at Sunset Sound, you know, wow. And it was 467 00:22:58,156 --> 00:22:59,076 Speaker 2: cool when you. 468 00:22:59,036 --> 00:23:02,156 Speaker 1: Turn up when you're coming from then, you know, coming 469 00:23:02,156 --> 00:23:04,636 Speaker 1: on and you're driving them down to the studio. 470 00:23:05,036 --> 00:23:07,316 Speaker 2: No switch. I was like at my jacket, my jeans 471 00:23:07,356 --> 00:23:09,236 Speaker 2: and on it. It's like where I used to just 472 00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:10,836 Speaker 2: stay in my clothes, you know what I mean? 473 00:23:10,916 --> 00:23:12,916 Speaker 1: How often would you walk into a session like that 474 00:23:13,076 --> 00:23:15,556 Speaker 1: and have to play on something you wannt too? And 475 00:23:15,636 --> 00:23:16,956 Speaker 1: two quite a bit. 476 00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:21,196 Speaker 2: I started weeding out those sessions though whenever I wasn't 477 00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:23,796 Speaker 2: a great reader. I'm not a great reader. There's guys 478 00:23:23,796 --> 00:23:26,396 Speaker 2: that sight read and that's their job what they do. 479 00:23:26,476 --> 00:23:28,796 Speaker 2: A guy I learned from Mike Lange, who was one 480 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:31,996 Speaker 2: of the best. He did all Jerry Goldsmith stuff. So 481 00:23:32,356 --> 00:23:34,396 Speaker 2: I would just started to go to how much reading 482 00:23:34,516 --> 00:23:36,476 Speaker 2: is involved? I'd have to ask because my dad told 483 00:23:36,476 --> 00:23:37,916 Speaker 2: me to do that, because he would have to do 484 00:23:37,956 --> 00:23:40,436 Speaker 2: the same thing. John Williams was the guy you'd call 485 00:23:40,996 --> 00:23:43,716 Speaker 2: if you want sight read stuff. And my dad would 486 00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:46,796 Speaker 2: just play new sessions with jazz guys where the reading 487 00:23:46,876 --> 00:23:47,996 Speaker 2: wasn't too terribly hard, you. 488 00:23:48,036 --> 00:23:48,476 Speaker 1: Know, right. 489 00:23:48,836 --> 00:23:50,996 Speaker 2: So I got a reputation for playing and being a 490 00:23:51,076 --> 00:23:52,956 Speaker 2: rock and roll player and an R and B player. 491 00:23:53,076 --> 00:23:56,436 Speaker 2: I started working at Motown when I was eighteen, with 492 00:23:56,996 --> 00:24:00,196 Speaker 2: Motown out in the West coast called mo West, and 493 00:24:00,516 --> 00:24:03,476 Speaker 2: so we did all these orchestral dates with rhythm section 494 00:24:03,636 --> 00:24:07,876 Speaker 2: two drummers and everything. It was live music doing stuff. 495 00:24:07,876 --> 00:24:10,796 Speaker 2: We did some stuff for Thelmy Houston and Diana Ross 496 00:24:11,156 --> 00:24:12,396 Speaker 2: and some of the Jacksons. 497 00:24:12,396 --> 00:24:15,276 Speaker 1: You know, gosh man, I mean, obviously you've got the 498 00:24:15,316 --> 00:24:17,796 Speaker 1: talent and everything, but what luck to was it feels 499 00:24:17,796 --> 00:24:19,796 Speaker 1: like the seventies really, like to your point of now 500 00:24:19,796 --> 00:24:22,396 Speaker 1: there's Mo West, It's like the business really seemed to 501 00:24:22,396 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 1: be coming out. 502 00:24:23,276 --> 00:24:26,396 Speaker 2: It really did. I mean it was thriving the session 503 00:24:26,476 --> 00:24:29,796 Speaker 2: industry and songwriters and doing all this kind of stuff. 504 00:24:29,796 --> 00:24:33,236 Speaker 2: I hadn't hit as a songwriter yet, but that led 505 00:24:33,316 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 2: up to Jeff introduced me to bos Skaggs, who because 506 00:24:37,556 --> 00:24:40,756 Speaker 2: Jeff and I Boss had been producing a guitarist that 507 00:24:40,916 --> 00:24:45,076 Speaker 2: was with the Allman Brothers named Lesdudeck and they needed 508 00:24:45,076 --> 00:24:47,956 Speaker 2: an organ player. So I played Hammond pretty good and 509 00:24:49,276 --> 00:24:51,876 Speaker 2: we went out and we did that album with Boss producing, 510 00:24:51,956 --> 00:24:54,196 Speaker 2: and Boss liked how he played, so he asked me 511 00:24:54,276 --> 00:24:57,036 Speaker 2: if I wanted to maybe co write an album. He 512 00:24:57,116 --> 00:24:59,876 Speaker 2: was looking for co writer. He'd never co written with anybody, 513 00:25:00,036 --> 00:25:02,636 Speaker 2: and so I said hell yeah, and we sat down. 514 00:25:02,716 --> 00:25:06,036 Speaker 2: I think it was on this piano up at Santa Barbara. 515 00:25:06,076 --> 00:25:07,916 Speaker 2: My dad had a ranch up there. We stayed there 516 00:25:07,956 --> 00:25:10,396 Speaker 2: for two weeks. I wrote, like most of the stuff 517 00:25:10,396 --> 00:25:14,156 Speaker 2: on Silk Degrees album on piano, you know, and that 518 00:25:14,276 --> 00:25:16,716 Speaker 2: album just took off. That album was like a Pinnacle 519 00:25:17,236 --> 00:25:22,116 Speaker 2: you know, Watershed album low down. I mean yeah, Lito, Lito, 520 00:25:22,676 --> 00:25:24,876 Speaker 2: you know, unbelievable. 521 00:25:24,876 --> 00:25:27,076 Speaker 1: Man. How were the Steely Dan sessions? 522 00:25:27,316 --> 00:25:30,996 Speaker 2: Steely Dance says were fun? Okay? Uh, Donal and Walter 523 00:25:31,236 --> 00:25:35,836 Speaker 2: characters and Jeff idolized them. Jeff was in Steely Dan 524 00:25:35,916 --> 00:25:38,396 Speaker 2: for a while, you know, he was a drummer, so 525 00:25:38,556 --> 00:25:40,636 Speaker 2: they heard about us. They wanted to start using session 526 00:25:40,636 --> 00:25:44,836 Speaker 2: players instead of their band. So, uh, somehow we got 527 00:25:44,836 --> 00:25:49,036 Speaker 2: a call. Jeff knew their guitar player, Danny Diaz, and 528 00:25:49,076 --> 00:25:51,556 Speaker 2: they called Jeff and they were looking for a piano 529 00:25:51,956 --> 00:25:55,156 Speaker 2: keyboard player. They could play other keyboards. So they called 530 00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:57,156 Speaker 2: me and I was on clavinet. It was on the 531 00:25:57,156 --> 00:25:59,596 Speaker 2: Pretzel Logic album. It was a song called night by 532 00:25:59,676 --> 00:26:02,196 Speaker 2: Night that I played on and I was playing. All 533 00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:03,916 Speaker 2: I had to do was keep time on the clavnet 534 00:26:04,076 --> 00:26:06,156 Speaker 2: because I was Billy pressed and out of Space had 535 00:26:06,156 --> 00:26:08,396 Speaker 2: come out and I was all over the clavinet. That 536 00:26:08,516 --> 00:26:10,316 Speaker 2: was my act. You know, give me a wa wall 537 00:26:10,356 --> 00:26:13,036 Speaker 2: pedal and clavinet and I'll kill it, you know what 538 00:26:13,116 --> 00:26:16,076 Speaker 2: I mean. So I did that. Then they did an 539 00:26:16,156 --> 00:26:18,876 Speaker 2: album after that was Katie Lied with Chef played on 540 00:26:18,916 --> 00:26:21,796 Speaker 2: the Whole Thing. I played on Black Friday. That was 541 00:26:21,836 --> 00:26:24,876 Speaker 2: me and Michael Halbardy and playing keyboards, and I played 542 00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:27,716 Speaker 2: on Doctor Wu on that album on Katie Lin. But 543 00:26:27,756 --> 00:26:31,516 Speaker 2: they were fun because Donald was so neurotic and anxious. 544 00:26:31,676 --> 00:26:34,596 Speaker 2: He'd be pacing back and forth singing the guide vocal, 545 00:26:34,876 --> 00:26:37,916 Speaker 2: but the lyrics were so interesting. We were just like, man, 546 00:26:38,076 --> 00:26:40,436 Speaker 2: dig it's deep. You know. You had to concentrate, like, 547 00:26:40,556 --> 00:26:43,356 Speaker 2: don't start listening to them singing, because you'll fuck up, 548 00:26:43,396 --> 00:26:43,996 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. 549 00:26:44,316 --> 00:26:48,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, And now in hindsight, people kind of regard Steely 550 00:26:48,516 --> 00:26:50,596 Speaker 1: Dan and those sessions and the work that was done 551 00:26:50,596 --> 00:26:53,476 Speaker 1: as like kind of like that's almost biblical, I can't 552 00:26:53,516 --> 00:26:53,956 Speaker 1: touch it. 553 00:26:54,036 --> 00:26:54,476 Speaker 2: That is. 554 00:26:54,596 --> 00:26:56,356 Speaker 1: Did they have that reputation at the time when you. 555 00:26:56,316 --> 00:26:58,796 Speaker 2: Were They didn't. They didn't. They were kind of on 556 00:26:58,876 --> 00:27:01,716 Speaker 2: the dark side and low key, and people didn't know 557 00:27:01,756 --> 00:27:02,236 Speaker 2: about him. 558 00:27:02,316 --> 00:27:02,596 Speaker 1: People. 559 00:27:02,596 --> 00:27:04,756 Speaker 2: Steely Dan wasn't a big no nip they had Ricky 560 00:27:04,796 --> 00:27:07,636 Speaker 2: Don't Lose That number was the one song that they did, 561 00:27:07,636 --> 00:27:10,316 Speaker 2: but it was other than that. They were kind of eclectic, 562 00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:12,796 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And they were doing different 563 00:27:12,876 --> 00:27:15,756 Speaker 2: kinds of stuff, jazzy kind of stuff back then, and 564 00:27:15,836 --> 00:27:18,916 Speaker 2: people they weren't mainstream, you know, the record companies didn't 565 00:27:18,956 --> 00:27:21,356 Speaker 2: know what to do with them at all until Irving 566 00:27:21,436 --> 00:27:24,036 Speaker 2: Asoff said I know what to do with him, and 567 00:27:24,036 --> 00:27:26,796 Speaker 2: he signed him, got Warner Brothers to sign him, you 568 00:27:26,796 --> 00:27:29,836 Speaker 2: know what I mean, out of away from ABC Dunhill, you. 569 00:27:29,796 --> 00:27:35,036 Speaker 1: Know, man, Yeah, when did your interest in songwriting start. 570 00:27:34,836 --> 00:27:37,956 Speaker 2: To I've always been in. I started in high school 571 00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:40,116 Speaker 2: when Elton John first came out with his first record. 572 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:42,396 Speaker 2: I just wanted to be Elton John. I mean that 573 00:27:42,516 --> 00:27:47,396 Speaker 2: was my hero, had glasses on, short hair and performed 574 00:27:47,556 --> 00:27:50,196 Speaker 2: rock and roll at the piano and stuff. So I 575 00:27:50,316 --> 00:27:53,556 Speaker 2: just started writing songs, copying his kind of songs. And 576 00:27:53,636 --> 00:27:56,316 Speaker 2: also I had known my dad did a lot of 577 00:27:56,316 --> 00:28:00,116 Speaker 2: work with Jimmy Webb. I learned that's the guy started copying, 578 00:28:00,316 --> 00:28:03,916 Speaker 2: I mean, first emulating his trying to try and to 579 00:28:03,956 --> 00:28:05,236 Speaker 2: emulate him before. 580 00:28:04,996 --> 00:28:06,716 Speaker 1: He get intoubt in it's Jimmy Webb. 581 00:28:06,676 --> 00:28:09,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jimmy Webb. And I was doing to play like 582 00:28:09,916 --> 00:28:13,396 Speaker 2: and play like him and right like him before I 583 00:28:13,436 --> 00:28:17,836 Speaker 2: made the Elton John connection. It was it was my apprenticeship, 584 00:28:17,916 --> 00:28:18,516 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. 585 00:28:18,556 --> 00:28:20,316 Speaker 1: That's what I was like going to school and you 586 00:28:20,356 --> 00:28:22,916 Speaker 1: were like doing. 587 00:28:22,076 --> 00:28:25,596 Speaker 2: I was doing. Here's the trip, Okay, I was. Me 588 00:28:25,716 --> 00:28:28,356 Speaker 2: and Jeff and David Hungate were Sunny and SHARE's rhythm 589 00:28:28,356 --> 00:28:31,156 Speaker 2: section on the road. When I got out of high school. 590 00:28:31,156 --> 00:28:34,356 Speaker 2: The first gig I had was touring with them, okay 591 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:37,396 Speaker 2: on the road and they were They had the Sunny 592 00:28:37,396 --> 00:28:38,996 Speaker 2: and Share Show. At the time. They were the biggest 593 00:28:39,036 --> 00:28:41,676 Speaker 2: thing in the United States. They were working, getting like 594 00:28:41,676 --> 00:28:44,636 Speaker 2: one hundred grand a night. So me and Jeff I joined. 595 00:28:44,676 --> 00:28:47,116 Speaker 2: Jeff had already been with him for six months. He 596 00:28:47,196 --> 00:28:52,756 Speaker 2: left high school early, and so my dad said, Okay, 597 00:28:52,796 --> 00:28:54,956 Speaker 2: he's going to college next year. Now, how are we 598 00:28:54,956 --> 00:28:57,196 Speaker 2: going to deal with that? And the and the stunning 599 00:28:57,196 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 2: and Share people said, we will fly him in to 600 00:28:59,636 --> 00:29:02,316 Speaker 2: go to his classes when we're not playing and shit 601 00:29:02,436 --> 00:29:05,156 Speaker 2: like that, and so they flew me in. I was 602 00:29:05,196 --> 00:29:07,076 Speaker 2: going to USC a couple of days a week. I 603 00:29:07,116 --> 00:29:08,916 Speaker 2: was visiting a bunch of classes, but I go to 604 00:29:08,956 --> 00:29:11,796 Speaker 2: you US see, I would do an Ironside's date and 605 00:29:11,836 --> 00:29:13,876 Speaker 2: I would fly back to Las Vegas to conduct for 606 00:29:13,916 --> 00:29:14,716 Speaker 2: Sonny and Share. 607 00:29:14,916 --> 00:29:17,476 Speaker 1: Wow, that was a trip. I imagine you probably didn't 608 00:29:17,516 --> 00:29:18,756 Speaker 1: care about going to us, was it? 609 00:29:19,636 --> 00:29:21,116 Speaker 2: I just had to do it. I had to do it, 610 00:29:21,156 --> 00:29:22,716 Speaker 2: fill out my grades and pass. 611 00:29:23,036 --> 00:29:25,396 Speaker 1: What was it like? Angham was Sonny and Share at 612 00:29:25,436 --> 00:29:25,676 Speaker 1: that time? 613 00:29:25,716 --> 00:29:28,996 Speaker 2: I mean he was kind of her fall guy, you 614 00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:30,876 Speaker 2: know what I mean. She would make jokes and he 615 00:29:30,956 --> 00:29:33,716 Speaker 2: was the little short Italian guy. But they were selling 616 00:29:33,756 --> 00:29:38,036 Speaker 2: out these huge arenas. We met all these promoters, all 617 00:29:38,076 --> 00:29:42,076 Speaker 2: the big Elton John promoters, all the big agents and 618 00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:43,916 Speaker 2: everything like that. Because they were big time. They had 619 00:29:43,956 --> 00:29:46,556 Speaker 2: their own jet. We were traveling on huge Get this 620 00:29:46,836 --> 00:29:51,796 Speaker 2: chu Hefner's Playboy jet was the jet that we traveled with, 621 00:29:51,996 --> 00:29:55,356 Speaker 2: like Bunny Stewardess's okay, And I was just out of 622 00:29:55,396 --> 00:29:57,316 Speaker 2: high school. We were all just out of high school, 623 00:29:57,436 --> 00:30:00,356 Speaker 2: and we were just like you gotta be frigging like 624 00:30:00,436 --> 00:30:02,876 Speaker 2: it's off the scale. We're in shock. We were kind 625 00:30:02,876 --> 00:30:05,276 Speaker 2: of in shock, like what do we do? Of course, Jeff, 626 00:30:05,476 --> 00:30:08,836 Speaker 2: Jeff is an old hand. Jeff was like drummers man. 627 00:30:09,116 --> 00:30:12,076 Speaker 2: I was putting the moves on everybody, you. 628 00:30:12,116 --> 00:30:18,036 Speaker 1: Know what I mean, A newbie, I was new meat man. 629 00:30:18,196 --> 00:30:19,556 Speaker 2: I was just like yes, Bam. 630 00:30:19,916 --> 00:30:22,156 Speaker 1: You know, when did you first meet the Pacaro brothers? 631 00:30:22,156 --> 00:30:24,836 Speaker 2: I mean, because Jeff, when I was when I was 632 00:30:25,836 --> 00:30:29,556 Speaker 2: fourteen and a half fifteen, you know, and I met 633 00:30:29,596 --> 00:30:32,356 Speaker 2: a Mike and Steve was playing always playing different instruments. 634 00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:34,676 Speaker 2: He was playing a French shorn, he played a cello, 635 00:30:35,356 --> 00:30:38,756 Speaker 2: and Mike was playing started to play. Mike played some drums, 636 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:41,516 Speaker 2: and then Mike started playing study bass. And Mike was 637 00:30:41,556 --> 00:30:43,356 Speaker 2: a great bass player. He was our high school bass 638 00:30:43,396 --> 00:30:45,396 Speaker 2: player and he was great. 639 00:30:45,876 --> 00:30:47,476 Speaker 1: When did you meet Steve Luke? At there? 640 00:30:48,196 --> 00:30:51,756 Speaker 2: Andy Leads, Steve's little younger brother, was hanging out with 641 00:30:51,796 --> 00:30:56,316 Speaker 2: Steve Ricaro and Steve Lucather and Mike Landau. They were 642 00:30:56,316 --> 00:30:59,476 Speaker 2: all friends. So I was starting my band and I 643 00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:02,036 Speaker 2: was looking at like Dean Parks and Louis Shelton and 644 00:31:02,556 --> 00:31:05,636 Speaker 2: Larry Carlton, and Andy says, you need to check out 645 00:31:05,676 --> 00:31:09,316 Speaker 2: these guitar players that are with Steve Riccaro's band. And 646 00:31:09,356 --> 00:31:11,596 Speaker 2: so I went to Taft High School, which is right 647 00:31:11,676 --> 00:31:14,676 Speaker 2: down there with Winetka in Ventura, and I walked in 648 00:31:14,836 --> 00:31:18,516 Speaker 2: and I heard this somebody playing like Jimmy Hendricks. I 649 00:31:19,276 --> 00:31:21,116 Speaker 2: thought the band was on a break and they put 650 00:31:21,156 --> 00:31:23,836 Speaker 2: a record on and they were playing Hendricks And I 651 00:31:23,876 --> 00:31:27,436 Speaker 2: walked in there and Lucather was on stage and Landaut. 652 00:31:27,596 --> 00:31:29,916 Speaker 2: Landau was real short. He was a real short guy. 653 00:31:30,436 --> 00:31:35,116 Speaker 2: And Lucather had on a monkey mask, okay, a rubber mask, 654 00:31:35,796 --> 00:31:38,636 Speaker 2: and I couldn't see I couldn't see him that well 655 00:31:38,676 --> 00:31:40,756 Speaker 2: because it was kind of smoky, and I was in 656 00:31:40,836 --> 00:31:42,796 Speaker 2: the back of the thing. But I'm I'm looking at 657 00:31:42,796 --> 00:31:45,436 Speaker 2: because guys look like he's been imprisoned or something like that. 658 00:31:45,756 --> 00:31:48,156 Speaker 2: And I get closer and I realized he's he was 659 00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:51,196 Speaker 2: doing like leaping in the air like Pete Townsend, sliding 660 00:31:51,236 --> 00:31:55,276 Speaker 2: on his knees, playing Johnny B. Good, singing it with 661 00:31:55,396 --> 00:31:57,596 Speaker 2: a monkey with a with a monkey mask. Gone, that 662 00:31:57,676 --> 00:31:59,796 Speaker 2: was just Lucather, crazy guy, you know what I mean. 663 00:32:00,396 --> 00:32:03,836 Speaker 2: Just he was silly, silly crazy, Okay, and he still 664 00:32:03,916 --> 00:32:07,276 Speaker 2: is silly crazy. But that's how I met him. And 665 00:32:07,396 --> 00:32:09,876 Speaker 2: I was looking at John Mike Landau, and I thought 666 00:32:10,396 --> 00:32:14,196 Speaker 2: Landau had a stratocaster, and I like stratocasters, so I said, 667 00:32:14,396 --> 00:32:17,236 Speaker 2: I think maybe the little guy that plays like Hendrick's 668 00:32:17,276 --> 00:32:19,956 Speaker 2: And Lucather says, no, man that he says, the other 669 00:32:19,996 --> 00:32:22,476 Speaker 2: guy's a star. We need to star in our band, 670 00:32:22,676 --> 00:32:25,156 Speaker 2: and Jeff of course said, that's our guy right there. 671 00:32:25,676 --> 00:32:27,516 Speaker 2: So Jeff picked him and I said, I don't have 672 00:32:27,556 --> 00:32:29,156 Speaker 2: a problem with that, but he was new and he 673 00:32:29,236 --> 00:32:31,876 Speaker 2: was just shredding the whole time. I said, yeah, but 674 00:32:32,076 --> 00:32:35,476 Speaker 2: he's got to play like on our records. And Luca says, 675 00:32:35,516 --> 00:32:37,756 Speaker 2: he'll learn. We'll put him next to Carlton and Louis Sheldon. 676 00:32:37,876 --> 00:32:42,076 Speaker 2: He'll he'll learn fast. And he did very quick study, 677 00:32:42,316 --> 00:32:45,076 Speaker 2: you know. And then you hear him play on Georgie 678 00:32:45,076 --> 00:32:46,796 Speaker 2: Porgy and you hear him play on her first album. 679 00:32:47,036 --> 00:32:49,956 Speaker 2: You know, he was already seasoned, you know what I 680 00:32:49,996 --> 00:32:51,556 Speaker 2: mean by seventy eight, you know. 681 00:32:51,676 --> 00:32:54,476 Speaker 1: In a way like real fortuitous. You guys got him 682 00:32:54,516 --> 00:32:56,476 Speaker 1: because he did. It's so funny, like by the time 683 00:32:56,516 --> 00:32:59,556 Speaker 1: you guys are really starting to take off, it's like, 684 00:33:00,236 --> 00:33:02,716 Speaker 1: you know, the Van Halen's of the world are out there, 685 00:33:02,276 --> 00:33:05,236 Speaker 1: right and you know this really kind of heavy guitar 686 00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:08,996 Speaker 1: sound is popular. Yeah, and you guys have Steve to 687 00:33:09,276 --> 00:33:09,956 Speaker 1: kind of bringing. 688 00:33:09,756 --> 00:33:13,076 Speaker 2: Out to Steve was friends with all the heavy metal players. 689 00:33:13,236 --> 00:33:16,076 Speaker 2: It was him and Eddie were best friends, okay immediately, 690 00:33:16,316 --> 00:33:18,756 Speaker 2: and we're to when any passed, you know, wow, So 691 00:33:18,876 --> 00:33:21,396 Speaker 2: Eddie van Haill was always hanging out Luca her Luca 692 00:33:21,436 --> 00:33:23,596 Speaker 2: that had all the hammering ship that Eddie was doing 693 00:33:23,996 --> 00:33:27,236 Speaker 2: down and uh and it was uh, it was fun 694 00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:30,796 Speaker 2: time because you had to have a gun slinger guitar player. 695 00:33:30,876 --> 00:33:33,636 Speaker 2: We had the guy who was Lucather. You know, he 696 00:33:33,796 --> 00:33:36,596 Speaker 2: was just shredding. You would rip all these guys. He 697 00:33:36,636 --> 00:33:40,156 Speaker 2: had more chops than any guitar player in town. I mean, 698 00:33:40,236 --> 00:33:44,756 Speaker 2: Larry Carlton, all these guys. Lucather was like Maha Vishnu 699 00:33:44,876 --> 00:33:48,436 Speaker 2: John John kind of chops. That's what these guys had. 700 00:33:48,516 --> 00:33:51,876 Speaker 2: Chops in high school. Wow, you know, unbelievable. 701 00:33:51,916 --> 00:33:53,996 Speaker 1: It's amazing all the talent that you guys had. You 702 00:33:54,036 --> 00:33:56,836 Speaker 1: guys to this day are able to still remain friends. 703 00:33:58,036 --> 00:34:01,076 Speaker 1: But but I mean, because there's a world where you 704 00:34:01,436 --> 00:34:04,676 Speaker 1: or or Steve or Lucather could have just been like, 705 00:34:05,156 --> 00:34:06,516 Speaker 1: you know, I want to do my thing. 706 00:34:06,716 --> 00:34:09,076 Speaker 2: You know really well, we weren't. No one everybody was. 707 00:34:09,316 --> 00:34:11,476 Speaker 2: The bands were the thing at the time. They say, 708 00:34:11,516 --> 00:34:14,396 Speaker 2: there's a saying now, back in the day when I 709 00:34:14,476 --> 00:34:18,596 Speaker 2: was growing up, everybody was in bands. Now they're singers. Now, 710 00:34:18,596 --> 00:34:21,676 Speaker 2: it's all about singing. And I think it's great that 711 00:34:21,756 --> 00:34:24,316 Speaker 2: everybody's singing now. I wish I wish I'd studied singing. 712 00:34:24,316 --> 00:34:26,276 Speaker 2: My dad didn't want me to be a singer because 713 00:34:26,556 --> 00:34:28,836 Speaker 2: he thought I would end up in a piano lounge 714 00:34:29,116 --> 00:34:31,956 Speaker 2: being a singer, piano player. Entertainer and that was the 715 00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:33,756 Speaker 2: worst word at the time. My dad said, you don't 716 00:34:33,756 --> 00:34:36,916 Speaker 2: want to become an entertainer. You want to be a musician, really, 717 00:34:37,076 --> 00:34:39,956 Speaker 2: And so I missed out on singing lessons and stuff, 718 00:34:39,996 --> 00:34:42,756 Speaker 2: but which I ended up taking later on, and stuff 719 00:34:42,796 --> 00:34:43,836 Speaker 2: like what I was gonna. 720 00:34:43,596 --> 00:34:45,436 Speaker 1: Ask about the band, like did you guys think of yourselves? 721 00:34:45,476 --> 00:34:47,836 Speaker 1: Obviously you guys are like incredible musicians, but they did 722 00:34:47,876 --> 00:34:49,516 Speaker 1: any of you guys think of yourselves as singer? 723 00:34:49,996 --> 00:34:52,396 Speaker 2: Luca there could sing a little bit. He could sing 724 00:34:52,396 --> 00:34:55,556 Speaker 2: like Georgie Porgy saying I'll be over you won't hold 725 00:34:55,596 --> 00:34:58,716 Speaker 2: you back. But and I could sing barely to just 726 00:34:58,756 --> 00:34:59,996 Speaker 2: get some of my songs out. 727 00:35:00,316 --> 00:35:03,356 Speaker 1: But we found this that you guys would like trade 728 00:35:03,356 --> 00:35:05,996 Speaker 1: off singing, like you know, be Steve if you look 729 00:35:05,996 --> 00:35:08,236 Speaker 1: at their into you andto. 730 00:35:08,156 --> 00:35:10,356 Speaker 2: Well, that was the whole idea I used as a 731 00:35:10,356 --> 00:35:13,276 Speaker 2: model the Beatles. I like the Beatles because you never 732 00:35:13,396 --> 00:35:16,236 Speaker 2: got tired. It wasn't one guy singing a solo outcrid. 733 00:35:16,356 --> 00:35:19,236 Speaker 2: I don't care who the artist is. A whole album 734 00:35:19,276 --> 00:35:21,836 Speaker 2: of them, I get a little bored. I like Fleetwood 735 00:35:21,876 --> 00:35:25,436 Speaker 2: Mac and I like the Beatles because they had various 736 00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:28,596 Speaker 2: diversity and their singing, you know, and so that's what 737 00:35:28,636 --> 00:35:30,636 Speaker 2: I wanted to do with our band. We did it 738 00:35:30,636 --> 00:35:34,076 Speaker 2: on the first album. Those guys never sung. I never sung, 739 00:35:34,236 --> 00:35:37,316 Speaker 2: I mean really on an album before. And we all 740 00:35:37,356 --> 00:35:38,316 Speaker 2: sang on the first album. 741 00:35:38,356 --> 00:35:40,036 Speaker 1: And then you guys have a sing on Bobby Kimball. 742 00:35:40,836 --> 00:35:43,436 Speaker 2: We had to get a singer because they were kept going, well, 743 00:35:43,476 --> 00:35:46,796 Speaker 2: who's your singer? They really before they signed the paper, 744 00:35:47,076 --> 00:35:49,236 Speaker 2: they want to know do you have a singer? And 745 00:35:49,316 --> 00:35:52,516 Speaker 2: a band that I had been co produced called Essus 746 00:35:52,596 --> 00:35:55,396 Speaker 2: Fools had a singer named Bobby Kimball, and they broke up, 747 00:35:55,676 --> 00:35:58,556 Speaker 2: and I said, let's try this guy out. And he 748 00:35:58,636 --> 00:36:01,476 Speaker 2: came in and I played hole the line and he 749 00:36:01,596 --> 00:36:04,276 Speaker 2: just grabbed the lyrics and we started ripping to hold 750 00:36:04,276 --> 00:36:06,316 Speaker 2: the line and it sounded the first time we played 751 00:36:06,316 --> 00:36:09,956 Speaker 2: it, it sounded like the record with him singing and us playing. 752 00:36:10,036 --> 00:36:12,316 Speaker 2: So everybody's looking around the room, We're looking at each 753 00:36:12,316 --> 00:36:16,156 Speaker 2: other like we're a band. We're a band. We knew 754 00:36:16,156 --> 00:36:17,036 Speaker 2: we were a band. You know. 755 00:36:17,996 --> 00:36:19,996 Speaker 1: We have to take another quick break and then we'll 756 00:36:20,036 --> 00:36:23,316 Speaker 1: be back with more from my conversation with David Page. 757 00:36:27,556 --> 00:36:31,516 Speaker 1: Here's the rest of my conversation with David Page. Let's 758 00:36:31,716 --> 00:36:35,316 Speaker 1: jump ahead to you reconnect with Quincy to do thriller. 759 00:36:35,556 --> 00:36:37,756 Speaker 1: Do you know was it Michael was a Quincy? Was 760 00:36:37,756 --> 00:36:40,036 Speaker 1: it the boat? How did you guys end up getting. 761 00:36:40,516 --> 00:36:44,156 Speaker 2: Up getting in? Because I had Steve ricarl had been 762 00:36:44,236 --> 00:36:49,236 Speaker 2: doing programming synthesizers for David Foster and Greg Phillip Gains 763 00:36:49,636 --> 00:36:52,756 Speaker 2: at all Quincy's people. I wasn't in that club yet. 764 00:36:53,076 --> 00:36:55,276 Speaker 2: So Steve, what are you doing? He goes, I'm doing 765 00:36:55,276 --> 00:36:57,716 Speaker 2: a Quincy Jones day. I said, you know what, I 766 00:36:57,756 --> 00:36:59,676 Speaker 2: want to go do a Quincy Jones date. So I'm 767 00:36:59,716 --> 00:37:02,316 Speaker 2: gonna go. I'm gonna be your assistant, and I want 768 00:37:02,316 --> 00:37:04,836 Speaker 2: to carry a piece of gear in to get in 769 00:37:04,836 --> 00:37:08,396 Speaker 2: to the the door. So I got the party. So 770 00:37:08,436 --> 00:37:10,116 Speaker 2: I got in the door. I think they were doing 771 00:37:10,196 --> 00:37:12,156 Speaker 2: Donna Summers. I think it was State of. 772 00:37:12,156 --> 00:37:13,196 Speaker 1: The Native Independence. 773 00:37:13,356 --> 00:37:16,396 Speaker 2: That was Steve. Steve Riccaro did that, and I was 774 00:37:16,556 --> 00:37:19,116 Speaker 2: kind of playing for him because he would be the 775 00:37:19,156 --> 00:37:22,316 Speaker 2: major programmer. But I could play really pretty well. So 776 00:37:22,916 --> 00:37:25,716 Speaker 2: set up the stuff, set up the sounds, and sweteen 777 00:37:25,756 --> 00:37:29,116 Speaker 2: would say, Steve, play something, and Steve would say, well, 778 00:37:29,156 --> 00:37:32,516 Speaker 2: that's David's here to Dave play something. And I started playing, 779 00:37:32,876 --> 00:37:34,756 Speaker 2: and Quincy would walk in the room and go, wow, 780 00:37:34,796 --> 00:37:37,636 Speaker 2: that's nice. What are you doing? Can you stay? Can 781 00:37:37,676 --> 00:37:40,636 Speaker 2: you hang out a little bit? And I'm sure. And 782 00:37:40,796 --> 00:37:43,916 Speaker 2: ever since then I do the Donna summers James Ingram 783 00:37:44,516 --> 00:37:46,476 Speaker 2: and uh then I got called him thriller, you know 784 00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:48,756 Speaker 2: what I mean? Because I was part of Quincy's club. 785 00:37:48,676 --> 00:37:51,356 Speaker 1: And so State of Quincy later said, and I mean, 786 00:37:51,356 --> 00:37:53,156 Speaker 1: you know, you can demeuror if you want. But Quincy 787 00:37:53,196 --> 00:37:56,836 Speaker 1: later said that the Billy Jean bassline was a rip 788 00:37:57,236 --> 00:38:00,636 Speaker 1: of that State of Independence programming, that thing that you 789 00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:01,436 Speaker 1: and really. 790 00:38:01,276 --> 00:38:03,116 Speaker 2: I don't know you said that, Yeah, could have been. 791 00:38:03,156 --> 00:38:07,156 Speaker 2: That could have been you know, boom boom boom boom 792 00:38:07,196 --> 00:38:07,876 Speaker 2: boom boom boom. 793 00:38:07,916 --> 00:38:08,436 Speaker 1: That was that. 794 00:38:08,556 --> 00:38:10,356 Speaker 2: Now that I think about it, it is. I'm gonna tell 795 00:38:10,356 --> 00:38:11,116 Speaker 2: Steve that today. 796 00:38:11,236 --> 00:38:12,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, because let me know what he says. 797 00:38:12,556 --> 00:38:17,516 Speaker 2: Because we brought all of our synthesizers down there. I mean, 798 00:38:17,756 --> 00:38:20,556 Speaker 2: there was a room full of synthesizers, and Steve was 799 00:38:20,596 --> 00:38:23,276 Speaker 2: doing that live. It was it had the drum machine, 800 00:38:23,636 --> 00:38:27,516 Speaker 2: it had all the sense pumping and basically the whole 801 00:38:27,516 --> 00:38:31,356 Speaker 2: record was done with Steve Riccaro doing synthesizers on his 802 00:38:31,636 --> 00:38:32,436 Speaker 2: micro composer. 803 00:38:32,556 --> 00:38:35,516 Speaker 1: So you guys basically play on human nature. You guys 804 00:38:35,516 --> 00:38:37,916 Speaker 1: do a number of you plan a number of different 805 00:38:37,916 --> 00:38:40,236 Speaker 1: things on thriller, but human Nature really is like it's like, 806 00:38:40,316 --> 00:38:43,476 Speaker 1: that's yeah, Toto. Essentially, are you mad at a Steve 807 00:38:43,796 --> 00:38:45,636 Speaker 1: when he takes a song like human Nation? 808 00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:50,876 Speaker 2: Hell? No, no, because the total would have never done 809 00:38:50,916 --> 00:38:51,876 Speaker 2: that totally. 810 00:38:51,996 --> 00:38:52,676 Speaker 1: No, I don't. 811 00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:55,596 Speaker 2: They may have, but Steve, we were we were off 812 00:38:55,636 --> 00:38:58,876 Speaker 2: the road and Quincy was looking for songs, and so 813 00:38:58,956 --> 00:39:00,996 Speaker 2: I sent I don't know what I sent in, but 814 00:39:01,116 --> 00:39:04,436 Speaker 2: I sent in a cassette and had on the back 815 00:39:04,476 --> 00:39:07,636 Speaker 2: of my cassette spend They had the super scope tape 816 00:39:07,676 --> 00:39:09,916 Speaker 2: machines that when they'd get to the end, it would 817 00:39:09,956 --> 00:39:13,036 Speaker 2: start playing the other side of the cassette automatically, and 818 00:39:13,076 --> 00:39:15,716 Speaker 2: so it jumped to the other side and played Steve 819 00:39:15,716 --> 00:39:18,996 Speaker 2: Bricaro's demo for him, and he was like, why why 820 00:39:19,676 --> 00:39:22,596 Speaker 2: tell him that is human nature? And Quincy dug it 821 00:39:22,676 --> 00:39:24,796 Speaker 2: and she played it for Michael and they were just 822 00:39:24,876 --> 00:39:27,916 Speaker 2: like they cut it. You know, wow, that was like 823 00:39:27,956 --> 00:39:29,756 Speaker 2: the left last song that went on the record. 824 00:39:29,796 --> 00:39:31,236 Speaker 1: You don't how did you because I want to talk 825 00:39:31,236 --> 00:39:34,116 Speaker 1: about this. I'm curious how you and Steve found how 826 00:39:34,156 --> 00:39:37,196 Speaker 1: to coexist in terms of as keyboard players send to play. 827 00:39:37,276 --> 00:39:40,316 Speaker 2: You would come up with something and say, Dave, I 828 00:39:40,396 --> 00:39:42,796 Speaker 2: need your I need some magic on this. I need 829 00:39:42,796 --> 00:39:44,876 Speaker 2: you to I need an intro, like you said on 830 00:39:44,956 --> 00:39:47,956 Speaker 2: Human Nature. I've got the chords, but I need an intro. 831 00:39:48,596 --> 00:39:55,276 Speaker 2: So I think those are the chords you played me 832 00:39:55,316 --> 00:40:01,036 Speaker 2: for the intro, and I from Jimmy Seals. I had 833 00:40:01,036 --> 00:40:05,916 Speaker 2: been used to doing fingerpicking guitar parts and in translating 834 00:40:05,996 --> 00:40:10,676 Speaker 2: of the piano, so I could do you know, I 835 00:40:10,716 --> 00:40:12,756 Speaker 2: would cross hands and do so. I did a little 836 00:40:12,836 --> 00:40:15,676 Speaker 2: Jimmy Seals kind of thing for Human Nature and that went. 837 00:40:28,676 --> 00:40:30,756 Speaker 2: And that's the answer to Human Nature that I came 838 00:40:30,876 --> 00:40:31,156 Speaker 2: up with. 839 00:40:32,316 --> 00:40:35,036 Speaker 1: That is one of the coolest. That is one of 840 00:40:35,076 --> 00:40:36,156 Speaker 1: the coolest. 841 00:40:35,756 --> 00:40:38,716 Speaker 2: And song and every time that comes up, it goes 842 00:40:38,716 --> 00:40:39,396 Speaker 2: into that part. 843 00:40:39,476 --> 00:40:42,316 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, It's so beautiful. What was 844 00:40:42,356 --> 00:40:44,876 Speaker 1: it like being in the studio with Michael if Michael. 845 00:40:44,916 --> 00:40:49,076 Speaker 2: Michael was great in the studio. He was a perfectionist 846 00:40:49,996 --> 00:40:52,876 Speaker 2: and he just believed in you painting. He came up 847 00:40:52,876 --> 00:40:56,316 Speaker 2: to me, here is a typical Michael Jackson thing you'd see. 848 00:40:56,556 --> 00:40:59,756 Speaker 2: I want you to think of Michael angela painting Assistine chapel. 849 00:41:00,196 --> 00:41:03,636 Speaker 2: You have a total blank canvas. And if you need 850 00:41:03,676 --> 00:41:07,676 Speaker 2: a choir, you need this, orchestra, you need whatever you need, 851 00:41:08,316 --> 00:41:11,236 Speaker 2: just do it. Just come up and think with it. Now. 852 00:41:11,276 --> 00:41:14,316 Speaker 2: This wasn't during Thriller though. This was after Thriller. Michael 853 00:41:14,796 --> 00:41:17,556 Speaker 2: continued working with me, but working with Michael. I got 854 00:41:17,556 --> 00:41:19,836 Speaker 2: in there one day and I was working on Billy Jean, 855 00:41:19,996 --> 00:41:22,996 Speaker 2: which I did and ended up using my parts, none 856 00:41:23,036 --> 00:41:25,196 Speaker 2: of my parts, but I did it with Michael, and 857 00:41:25,276 --> 00:41:27,836 Speaker 2: he would listen to what you're playing, and he kind 858 00:41:27,836 --> 00:41:30,036 Speaker 2: of let a couple of little mistakes go by, and 859 00:41:30,076 --> 00:41:32,676 Speaker 2: I stopped him and I said, Michael, listen, I'm a 860 00:41:32,716 --> 00:41:35,156 Speaker 2: perfectionist and I want to make sure that all this 861 00:41:35,196 --> 00:41:37,636 Speaker 2: stuff is perfect when we put it on there. So 862 00:41:38,316 --> 00:41:42,116 Speaker 2: in the interim he liked the fact that I wanted 863 00:41:42,156 --> 00:41:45,916 Speaker 2: perfection on his record, and he called me in and say, 864 00:41:46,076 --> 00:41:47,956 Speaker 2: I want I want you to come in and listen 865 00:41:47,956 --> 00:41:50,556 Speaker 2: to my vocal that I'm doing and tell me if 866 00:41:50,556 --> 00:41:52,516 Speaker 2: it's tell me if it's good. And it kind of 867 00:41:52,516 --> 00:41:54,476 Speaker 2: got me in trouble with Quincy a little bit because 868 00:41:54,596 --> 00:41:57,436 Speaker 2: Quincy was there and he goes, Quincy goes, Michael, is 869 00:41:57,436 --> 00:42:00,956 Speaker 2: that what do you think? And he goes ask David 870 00:42:00,996 --> 00:42:03,876 Speaker 2: Page what he thinks on the human nature vocal and 871 00:42:03,916 --> 00:42:08,436 Speaker 2: I'm like, uhh, Quincy just gave me the look, gave 872 00:42:08,436 --> 00:42:10,596 Speaker 2: me the look like oh really you know what I mean? 873 00:42:10,876 --> 00:42:13,196 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh man, you know, so we 874 00:42:13,316 --> 00:42:16,116 Speaker 2: got that straightened out and uh. And then Michael was 875 00:42:16,156 --> 00:42:18,436 Speaker 2: great to work with anybody that worked with him. He 876 00:42:18,516 --> 00:42:21,796 Speaker 2: was just like Jeff did beat Jeff. They came to 877 00:42:21,876 --> 00:42:24,196 Speaker 2: Jeff and all they had was these drum cases that 878 00:42:24,276 --> 00:42:28,076 Speaker 2: went do do Do Do Do? 879 00:42:27,796 --> 00:42:28,756 Speaker 1: Do? Do? Do? 880 00:42:28,756 --> 00:42:32,636 Speaker 2: Do Do Do do? And and they were singing the 881 00:42:32,676 --> 00:42:35,796 Speaker 2: line I think in there. And then Steve and Jeff 882 00:42:35,836 --> 00:42:38,276 Speaker 2: played all the instruments on Steve Luke and that played bass, 883 00:42:38,516 --> 00:42:41,596 Speaker 2: played rhythm guitar, Eddie did the solo, and Jeff played 884 00:42:41,596 --> 00:42:42,196 Speaker 2: the drums on it. 885 00:42:42,236 --> 00:42:43,676 Speaker 1: You know, look wanted to do the solo. 886 00:42:43,916 --> 00:42:46,236 Speaker 2: How did it end up that he was lucky to 887 00:42:46,236 --> 00:42:48,636 Speaker 2: play on He was happy to play. Yeah, And then 888 00:42:48,636 --> 00:42:50,156 Speaker 2: they said they were trying to get Ed van Halen, 889 00:42:50,236 --> 00:42:53,396 Speaker 2: which was Luke's friend. Luke's like, right on, you know. 890 00:42:53,796 --> 00:42:55,196 Speaker 2: D didn't want to do it at first because they 891 00:42:55,236 --> 00:42:59,036 Speaker 2: have van Halen had a no session band role. You 892 00:42:59,076 --> 00:43:02,476 Speaker 2: can't play in other people's records. So Eddie called him 893 00:43:02,476 --> 00:43:04,476 Speaker 2: and said, this is Quincy Jones. He goes, yeah, sure, 894 00:43:04,516 --> 00:43:07,236 Speaker 2: and he hung up on him. Okay, Ed, you know 895 00:43:07,276 --> 00:43:10,916 Speaker 2: what I mean, And I said, no, really seriously, you know. 896 00:43:11,036 --> 00:43:13,676 Speaker 2: So they he sent a tape in and they flew 897 00:43:13,676 --> 00:43:16,556 Speaker 2: it in I don't know where. He just soloed and 898 00:43:16,596 --> 00:43:18,796 Speaker 2: they just took a piece of it dropped it in lin. 899 00:43:19,436 --> 00:43:23,556 Speaker 1: Wow. Total four. You guys spent a lot of time 900 00:43:23,556 --> 00:43:24,076 Speaker 1: in the studio. 901 00:43:24,636 --> 00:43:26,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, we spent a lot of time all the time. 902 00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:29,076 Speaker 1: So that's another year, man, where it's like if seventy 903 00:43:29,116 --> 00:43:31,156 Speaker 1: eight your first records coming out, all these big hits 904 00:43:31,156 --> 00:43:33,436 Speaker 1: and you got Sheryl Lyn's record out at the same time. 905 00:43:33,636 --> 00:43:37,316 Speaker 1: This is like you got total four thriller. 906 00:43:37,116 --> 00:43:39,876 Speaker 2: All the all the burners are on, you know, unbelievable. 907 00:43:39,996 --> 00:43:43,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got four records behind Youah, a bunch of hits. 908 00:43:43,996 --> 00:43:47,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're doing sessions and touring and doing 909 00:43:47,436 --> 00:43:49,396 Speaker 2: our total records at the time, you know, so it 910 00:43:49,476 --> 00:43:51,956 Speaker 2: was just kind of a revolving door at the recording 911 00:43:51,996 --> 00:43:55,276 Speaker 2: studios Sunset Sound. We'd see guys that are working on it, Thriller, 912 00:43:55,276 --> 00:43:57,516 Speaker 2: What are you doing, I'm working with Quincy today. Well 913 00:43:57,556 --> 00:43:58,596 Speaker 2: we'll be there in a little bit. 914 00:43:58,916 --> 00:44:01,876 Speaker 1: And you know, how did Sunset Sound become your home? 915 00:44:01,956 --> 00:44:02,996 Speaker 1: Which is one of the great studios. 916 00:44:03,036 --> 00:44:05,956 Speaker 2: It was one of the great studios, and you know, 917 00:44:06,036 --> 00:44:08,236 Speaker 2: we could basically work everywhere. I mean, we did Thriller 918 00:44:08,276 --> 00:44:11,356 Speaker 2: at Westlake, the whole thing. You know. We did Toto's 919 00:44:11,396 --> 00:44:15,556 Speaker 2: rec first record at Studio fifty five, which was it 920 00:44:15,876 --> 00:44:19,556 Speaker 2: ended up becoming Richard Perry's studio. But we just liked 921 00:44:20,356 --> 00:44:24,476 Speaker 2: Sunset Sound as a record recording place. And that was 922 00:44:24,556 --> 00:44:27,996 Speaker 2: during the Hydra record we started working at Sunset Sound 923 00:44:28,156 --> 00:44:31,276 Speaker 2: again cool and we loved playing there. We loved that 924 00:44:31,276 --> 00:44:34,396 Speaker 2: that was a real progressive music. We were trying to 925 00:44:34,396 --> 00:44:36,716 Speaker 2: push ahead. Well, now that we had been had a 926 00:44:36,756 --> 00:44:39,276 Speaker 2: hit album, we kind of wanted to play some serious 927 00:44:39,516 --> 00:44:41,956 Speaker 2: concert stuff here. You don't get into the way we 928 00:44:41,956 --> 00:44:43,836 Speaker 2: would sound if we went out live and I just 929 00:44:43,876 --> 00:44:46,836 Speaker 2: playing pop. Georgie Porgy and god, the. 930 00:44:46,636 --> 00:44:48,636 Speaker 1: First record is like, let's let's craft a record. 931 00:44:48,716 --> 00:44:51,676 Speaker 2: Let's craft the record, let's find an audience. So we 932 00:44:51,716 --> 00:44:53,436 Speaker 2: did a whole of a lot of different kinds of 933 00:44:53,436 --> 00:44:56,036 Speaker 2: things to find out. I know that there's got to 934 00:44:56,076 --> 00:44:59,036 Speaker 2: be a single in there somewhere, you know, And surely enough, 935 00:44:59,076 --> 00:45:00,916 Speaker 2: the record company grabbed all of the line, you know, 936 00:45:01,516 --> 00:45:02,836 Speaker 2: you know, little did I know? You know? 937 00:45:03,036 --> 00:45:06,556 Speaker 1: Yeah? But then Hydro was like, let's Hydra was more more. 938 00:45:07,236 --> 00:45:10,036 Speaker 2: We were listening to Genesis the time, you know what 939 00:45:10,076 --> 00:45:14,356 Speaker 2: I mean, Peter Gabriel and these progressive English groups that 940 00:45:14,476 --> 00:45:17,996 Speaker 2: were doing just blowing our minds, you know, So we 941 00:45:18,036 --> 00:45:20,756 Speaker 2: wanted to get more progressive and more musical, you know, 942 00:45:20,916 --> 00:45:24,276 Speaker 2: because we're all just making music basically for ourselves and 943 00:45:24,316 --> 00:45:27,836 Speaker 2: our friend musicians, so we could get together and smoke 944 00:45:28,036 --> 00:45:30,316 Speaker 2: a little bit and and listen to music, you know, 945 00:45:30,876 --> 00:45:33,316 Speaker 2: and and we wanted to have something interesting to play him, 946 00:45:33,756 --> 00:45:35,596 Speaker 2: you know, because everybody else was bringing in all this 947 00:45:35,676 --> 00:45:37,916 Speaker 2: stuff that they're they're doing, and it was like, you know, 948 00:45:38,236 --> 00:45:40,036 Speaker 2: real real musical stuff, you know. 949 00:45:40,356 --> 00:45:42,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you guys went into Prince at all? Because 950 00:45:42,476 --> 00:45:44,196 Speaker 1: I know he was hunkered down at Sunset Sound. 951 00:45:44,596 --> 00:45:47,316 Speaker 2: Ran into Prince one time, and he was down there 952 00:45:47,356 --> 00:45:50,996 Speaker 2: before we were down there. During we were down there, 953 00:45:51,876 --> 00:45:54,916 Speaker 2: I didn't run into him. I think Jeff ran into 954 00:45:55,036 --> 00:45:58,716 Speaker 2: him one time, but he was down there with James 955 00:45:58,756 --> 00:46:01,716 Speaker 2: Newton Howard working on his first album. Ray Parker, who's 956 00:46:01,756 --> 00:46:06,076 Speaker 2: my neighbor down the stirt, down down the hill, bad man, 957 00:46:06,076 --> 00:46:08,196 Speaker 2: and he's like my best friend. We grew up together, 958 00:46:08,236 --> 00:46:10,796 Speaker 2: we both He came out from Detroit when he was 959 00:46:10,876 --> 00:46:14,516 Speaker 2: nineteen and I started working when I was eighteen and nineteen. 960 00:46:14,556 --> 00:46:17,036 Speaker 2: So we have been friends since we've been really young. 961 00:46:17,636 --> 00:46:21,436 Speaker 2: So Prince saw Ray Parkers had a studio in his house, 962 00:46:21,756 --> 00:46:24,396 Speaker 2: and Prince said, I want that. So Ray built Prince's 963 00:46:24,436 --> 00:46:29,036 Speaker 2: first studio. Really yeah, So Ray set Prince up and 964 00:46:29,076 --> 00:46:32,716 Speaker 2: then I heard later on that Prince really liked Luca. 965 00:46:32,756 --> 00:46:35,716 Speaker 2: There is a guitar player, and I just I've gained 966 00:46:35,716 --> 00:46:38,876 Speaker 2: so much respect for him lately. Hearing Hill he plays 967 00:46:38,916 --> 00:46:42,076 Speaker 2: guitar and the shows of acoustic work, and he's just 968 00:46:42,316 --> 00:46:43,756 Speaker 2: he was a real talent. 969 00:46:43,876 --> 00:46:46,436 Speaker 1: You know, man, you guys were around some of the coolest, 970 00:46:46,516 --> 00:46:49,756 Speaker 1: greatest the era of music. You guys existed because the 971 00:46:50,276 --> 00:46:53,316 Speaker 1: point again the left, like the what remained of the 972 00:46:53,436 --> 00:46:55,796 Speaker 1: jazz great. It's like said Oscar Peterson came to your 973 00:46:55,836 --> 00:46:58,556 Speaker 1: house to work on to check out synthesizers. 974 00:46:58,556 --> 00:47:01,676 Speaker 2: He did because the Roland, the guy who invented a 975 00:47:01,716 --> 00:47:04,756 Speaker 2: bunch of rolling stuff, was living at my house. Okay, 976 00:47:04,956 --> 00:47:07,636 Speaker 2: Foster called me up and said, I got a guy 977 00:47:07,636 --> 00:47:10,236 Speaker 2: from Canada and Ralph bike for Roland. Do you guys 978 00:47:10,276 --> 00:47:12,716 Speaker 2: interested in this? We said, send them over and he 979 00:47:12,716 --> 00:47:15,436 Speaker 2: would just build stuff for us. And so he became 980 00:47:15,476 --> 00:47:18,316 Speaker 2: friends with Oscar because Oscar's Canadian too, so he brought 981 00:47:18,316 --> 00:47:20,796 Speaker 2: Oscar Peterson over. We're like I called James Duton Howard. 982 00:47:20,916 --> 00:47:22,716 Speaker 2: So you got to get over here right now. Man, 983 00:47:23,116 --> 00:47:25,716 Speaker 2: this is gonna get serious here. You know. Of course 984 00:47:25,796 --> 00:47:27,796 Speaker 2: I didn't have any I didn't take any pictures during 985 00:47:27,796 --> 00:47:29,796 Speaker 2: the time, and I don't have any pictures from it. 986 00:47:29,996 --> 00:47:31,156 Speaker 1: Did he play on this piano? 987 00:47:31,476 --> 00:47:34,236 Speaker 2: No, I have a piano downstairs. Oscar played on because 988 00:47:34,236 --> 00:47:36,396 Speaker 2: a nine foot ball with st ten. He looks at 989 00:47:36,436 --> 00:47:37,636 Speaker 2: my piano. It was nice box. 990 00:47:40,396 --> 00:47:45,236 Speaker 1: Unbelievable, man, How did you guys change as people before 991 00:47:45,276 --> 00:47:47,236 Speaker 1: having those hits and having the hit? I mean, did 992 00:47:47,316 --> 00:47:49,796 Speaker 1: at any point? Did it get competitive? But not amongst 993 00:47:49,836 --> 00:47:52,156 Speaker 1: you guys, but with other groups? Did you feel like 994 00:47:52,396 --> 00:47:54,156 Speaker 1: we want hits. So did you feel like you want 995 00:47:54,156 --> 00:47:55,036 Speaker 1: to compete on the live? 996 00:47:55,236 --> 00:47:57,756 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, what was What's so funny because after, 997 00:47:57,996 --> 00:48:01,516 Speaker 2: like years later, I talked to some people the Recession guys, 998 00:48:01,796 --> 00:48:06,996 Speaker 2: Danny Korchmeyer, Danny Cooch, a, Waddie Walke Tell, and they 999 00:48:07,036 --> 00:48:09,116 Speaker 2: told me we were so pissed off at you guys 1000 00:48:09,156 --> 00:48:10,956 Speaker 2: when he came out with all the line They go, 1001 00:48:11,036 --> 00:48:14,316 Speaker 2: that's a goddamn do wop song and we should have 1002 00:48:14,356 --> 00:48:16,596 Speaker 2: played that. We should have played the solo on that record, 1003 00:48:16,596 --> 00:48:18,996 Speaker 2: not Lucather and everything like that, because look at it 1004 00:48:19,076 --> 00:48:22,716 Speaker 2: played like a Brian May kind of Queen's you know, 1005 00:48:22,756 --> 00:48:24,916 Speaker 2: he shredded it, you know, and they were gonna play 1006 00:48:24,956 --> 00:48:26,756 Speaker 2: like Doom Do Doom Do Do Do Do Do Do 1007 00:48:26,876 --> 00:48:29,916 Speaker 2: Do Do do? They wanted to treat it like about 1008 00:48:29,916 --> 00:48:31,556 Speaker 2: you guys, and that you could do that, but then 1009 00:48:31,596 --> 00:48:34,276 Speaker 2: have Luke at there do like a Brian John. We 1010 00:48:34,276 --> 00:48:35,676 Speaker 2: were mashing up genres, you know. 1011 00:48:35,716 --> 00:48:37,756 Speaker 1: At the time, it's the coolest thing about you guys. 1012 00:48:37,796 --> 00:48:39,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, And later on we'd be Luke, we kind 1013 00:48:39,956 --> 00:48:42,956 Speaker 2: of were competitive with the songwriting he bring in this 1014 00:48:43,076 --> 00:48:45,276 Speaker 2: and I'd be like I still today can't write. He 1015 00:48:45,356 --> 00:48:48,196 Speaker 2: writes every time he breaks up with somebody, he would 1016 00:48:48,196 --> 00:48:51,516 Speaker 2: write a great ballad, a love ballad, and he just 1017 00:48:51,796 --> 00:48:54,116 Speaker 2: he's great pills and he sings it and he sings 1018 00:48:54,196 --> 00:48:56,516 Speaker 2: him too. You know, how did you guys work that out? 1019 00:48:56,556 --> 00:48:58,556 Speaker 2: But I mean, there's so many people in the group 1020 00:48:58,596 --> 00:49:01,476 Speaker 2: who could sing the song, someone who could write the song. 1021 00:49:02,196 --> 00:49:04,676 Speaker 2: We would listen to the best songs in yours. Anybody 1022 00:49:04,676 --> 00:49:07,396 Speaker 2: has a song, bring it in and we'll listen to it. Now, 1023 00:49:07,556 --> 00:49:10,476 Speaker 2: just listen to whose voice it's that. And so each 1024 00:49:10,476 --> 00:49:12,916 Speaker 2: of us would try. You know, everybody tried to sing Africa. 1025 00:49:13,276 --> 00:49:15,076 Speaker 2: They just couldn't spit all the words out. And I 1026 00:49:15,196 --> 00:49:17,596 Speaker 2: was I ended up singing the song that I wrote. 1027 00:49:17,596 --> 00:49:20,836 Speaker 1: You know, you'd written it a little easier to you know. 1028 00:49:21,036 --> 00:49:24,796 Speaker 2: So, as usual, the band says to me, next time 1029 00:49:24,836 --> 00:49:27,036 Speaker 2: you're going to write a number one single, make sure 1030 00:49:27,116 --> 00:49:29,236 Speaker 2: that you're not the singer on it. Make sure our 1031 00:49:29,276 --> 00:49:31,716 Speaker 2: lead singer sings the whole thing. And I'm like, guys, 1032 00:49:31,756 --> 00:49:32,396 Speaker 2: I didn't know. 1033 00:49:32,796 --> 00:49:34,436 Speaker 1: You guys really not know Africa would be. 1034 00:49:34,596 --> 00:49:38,076 Speaker 2: No no idea really, no idea really. That was the 1035 00:49:38,156 --> 00:49:41,116 Speaker 2: last song that was eleventh hour song that we had 1036 00:49:41,116 --> 00:49:44,236 Speaker 2: the whole album done, and we just start experimenting with well, 1037 00:49:44,276 --> 00:49:46,156 Speaker 2: here's maybe a song that and they used to say 1038 00:49:46,476 --> 00:49:48,996 Speaker 2: it was a joke, Dave, save this for your solo record, 1039 00:49:49,196 --> 00:49:51,396 Speaker 2: which there was none, you know what I mean, and 1040 00:49:51,556 --> 00:49:53,916 Speaker 2: or or maybe for the next album. This is a 1041 00:49:53,956 --> 00:49:59,276 Speaker 2: good song. No, no, this stor our sense of humor, 1042 00:49:59,436 --> 00:50:02,396 Speaker 2: just fucking with me, you know. So we start experimenting 1043 00:50:02,396 --> 00:50:04,396 Speaker 2: with it around, making a loop. We we knew we 1044 00:50:04,436 --> 00:50:06,716 Speaker 2: had time because we'd already done our album. So we 1045 00:50:06,756 --> 00:50:08,476 Speaker 2: got in the studio and made a loop, a drum 1046 00:50:08,516 --> 00:50:12,276 Speaker 2: loop with any Castro and Jeffercarl and then I put 1047 00:50:12,316 --> 00:50:14,716 Speaker 2: on a C. S eighty thing and we started building 1048 00:50:14,756 --> 00:50:17,276 Speaker 2: it little by little and just everybody was making their 1049 00:50:17,316 --> 00:50:20,116 Speaker 2: own parts up, and it just came came to being, 1050 00:50:20,196 --> 00:50:21,876 Speaker 2: you know, and we were like, well, okay, this is 1051 00:50:21,916 --> 00:50:24,676 Speaker 2: the last cut. It's kind of different kind of world music. 1052 00:50:24,996 --> 00:50:26,836 Speaker 2: And then they called from New York. Sony called it 1053 00:50:26,876 --> 00:50:29,316 Speaker 2: says they're playing it in a disco, a big disco. 1054 00:50:29,356 --> 00:50:31,836 Speaker 2: It's a big hit in New York. Africa is and 1055 00:50:31,876 --> 00:50:35,476 Speaker 2: this started going around the United States. People start picking 1056 00:50:35,516 --> 00:50:37,396 Speaker 2: it up, and it just gained momentium. 1057 00:50:37,636 --> 00:50:42,236 Speaker 1: So cool, you guys have these incredible pop songs. We're 1058 00:50:42,276 --> 00:50:45,676 Speaker 1: talking about Africa, Rosanna, songs like that, and then the 1059 00:50:45,716 --> 00:50:48,836 Speaker 1: solos that you're playing. How did you pull back? Because 1060 00:50:48,836 --> 00:50:50,716 Speaker 1: I mean I would love to hear like an eight 1061 00:50:50,756 --> 00:50:52,756 Speaker 1: minute so yeah, of you? I mean, how did you 1062 00:50:52,796 --> 00:50:53,956 Speaker 1: guys try yourself? 1063 00:50:54,596 --> 00:50:56,756 Speaker 2: Times we played Rosanna? We jammed on the end there? 1064 00:50:56,836 --> 00:50:58,436 Speaker 1: Did you you just hear the little. 1065 00:50:58,356 --> 00:50:59,436 Speaker 2: You hear a little short one? 1066 00:50:59,516 --> 00:51:00,796 Speaker 1: Hear the short? I want to? 1067 00:51:00,796 --> 00:51:02,876 Speaker 2: We said, well, we're going to keep it short this time, guys, 1068 00:51:02,916 --> 00:51:04,596 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, keep the endiing there, you 1069 00:51:04,596 --> 00:51:06,036 Speaker 2: know what I mean, get it all in. But that 1070 00:51:06,116 --> 00:51:09,596 Speaker 2: was that went longer. That fade out probably in another 1071 00:51:09,596 --> 00:51:11,916 Speaker 2: two minutes, you know what I mean, We just faded 1072 00:51:11,956 --> 00:51:12,516 Speaker 2: it out. You know. 1073 00:51:12,676 --> 00:51:15,876 Speaker 1: Love to hear that? Yeah, loved me too. I don't 1074 00:51:15,916 --> 00:51:17,636 Speaker 1: know how you guys did it, as like there's not 1075 00:51:17,716 --> 00:51:21,836 Speaker 1: many groups who could be as musically inclined as you guys. 1076 00:51:21,956 --> 00:51:24,596 Speaker 1: And also but also we like kind of know, like, okay, 1077 00:51:24,636 --> 00:51:26,756 Speaker 1: we got to do the short version. 1078 00:51:26,836 --> 00:51:31,836 Speaker 2: That's the reason we just decided instead of forming a group. 1079 00:51:31,876 --> 00:51:33,876 Speaker 2: We got offers to form our out of our high 1080 00:51:33,876 --> 00:51:36,236 Speaker 2: school band to sign a deal, and we turned it 1081 00:51:36,276 --> 00:51:38,396 Speaker 2: down because we said we want to go in and 1082 00:51:38,476 --> 00:51:41,076 Speaker 2: learn how to make records so that we don't come 1083 00:51:41,076 --> 00:51:44,236 Speaker 2: out we don't learn on our first record. We're just 1084 00:51:44,276 --> 00:51:46,876 Speaker 2: barely learning how to make records here. So we each 1085 00:51:46,916 --> 00:51:49,236 Speaker 2: went off our different directions and we did a lot 1086 00:51:49,276 --> 00:51:52,356 Speaker 2: of sessions and gained all this knowledge, so we were 1087 00:51:52,396 --> 00:51:55,276 Speaker 2: ready to We were like co producing ourselves by the 1088 00:51:55,316 --> 00:51:57,556 Speaker 2: band members, by their just their experience. 1089 00:51:57,716 --> 00:51:59,876 Speaker 1: Did you learn about a lot about songwriting playing on 1090 00:51:59,876 --> 00:52:02,076 Speaker 1: other people's songs? 1091 00:52:00,716 --> 00:52:04,076 Speaker 2: Yeahs I learned a lot about what I didn't want 1092 00:52:04,116 --> 00:52:07,436 Speaker 2: to do because I kept I would try and make 1093 00:52:07,476 --> 00:52:09,316 Speaker 2: them a little more of my songs. I try and 1094 00:52:09,316 --> 00:52:12,156 Speaker 2: re arrange them when using my changes. But everybody else 1095 00:52:12,196 --> 00:52:15,956 Speaker 2: wanted to use these jazzy cords tho. It's like, and 1096 00:52:16,076 --> 00:52:24,436 Speaker 2: I was going for the everybody else. That's what Foster had, 1097 00:52:24,516 --> 00:52:26,596 Speaker 2: Graydon and those guys were always that the earth wind 1098 00:52:26,636 --> 00:52:28,796 Speaker 2: and fire. Yeah they were. Everybody was trying to be 1099 00:52:28,836 --> 00:52:31,676 Speaker 2: earth winded fire at the time, Okay, and so was I. 1100 00:52:31,716 --> 00:52:38,596 Speaker 2: So we all were yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, that's 1101 00:52:38,676 --> 00:52:40,036 Speaker 2: kind of earth windy right there. Do you know what 1102 00:52:40,076 --> 00:52:40,316 Speaker 2: I mean? 1103 00:52:40,436 --> 00:52:42,956 Speaker 1: Domins and Russ Joan Bias last, Oh, yeah, you can. 1104 00:52:42,916 --> 00:52:47,476 Speaker 2: Know about that record that I knew the producer. I'd 1105 00:52:47,476 --> 00:52:50,996 Speaker 2: worked with him, the guy named David Krushenbaum, and he 1106 00:52:51,116 --> 00:52:53,636 Speaker 2: hired me and we all great thing that I got 1107 00:52:53,636 --> 00:52:55,836 Speaker 2: to play with Joe Sample. Joe Sample and me played 1108 00:52:55,836 --> 00:53:00,836 Speaker 2: together on that. I played piano and he played roxy 1109 00:53:00,956 --> 00:53:03,876 Speaker 2: chord I think or electric piano, Roxy court and had 1110 00:53:03,956 --> 00:53:08,116 Speaker 2: Larry Carlton, Dean Parks, Jim Gordon on drums and I 1111 00:53:08,236 --> 00:53:11,276 Speaker 2: just got to play on that record, and uh, it 1112 00:53:11,396 --> 00:53:14,076 Speaker 2: was fun. Joan Bias was great. We just I had 1113 00:53:14,116 --> 00:53:17,316 Speaker 2: done a midnight special with her with our band. She 1114 00:53:17,396 --> 00:53:20,156 Speaker 2: ended up using our band for backup band on Midnight Special. 1115 00:53:20,716 --> 00:53:26,196 Speaker 2: But a funny story about Steely Dan Walter Becker heard 1116 00:53:26,276 --> 00:53:28,996 Speaker 2: the Diamonds and Rust album and saw that Larry Carleton 1117 00:53:29,076 --> 00:53:32,316 Speaker 2: had arranged it, and that's why he called Carlton to 1118 00:53:33,036 --> 00:53:37,036 Speaker 2: arrange the World Scam album because he said, if he 1119 00:53:37,316 --> 00:53:40,476 Speaker 2: they can make Joan Biaz sound this good, they're gonna 1120 00:53:40,516 --> 00:53:42,996 Speaker 2: be able to arrange our stuff. And that was that 1121 00:53:43,116 --> 00:53:45,636 Speaker 2: was the deal. They That was the album that they 1122 00:53:45,836 --> 00:53:47,076 Speaker 2: got turned on too. Larry Carleton. 1123 00:53:47,436 --> 00:53:49,436 Speaker 1: I mean that's the song Joan Bias says, that's her 1124 00:53:50,276 --> 00:53:50,836 Speaker 1: best song. 1125 00:53:51,156 --> 00:53:52,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great. 1126 00:53:52,356 --> 00:53:53,796 Speaker 1: It was moved. 1127 00:53:53,956 --> 00:53:56,036 Speaker 2: She was like the Dylan's counterpart. 1128 00:53:56,556 --> 00:53:58,236 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was moved to Colin and tell her 1129 00:53:58,276 --> 00:54:00,316 Speaker 1: this is incredible, you know, I mean. 1130 00:54:00,236 --> 00:54:02,876 Speaker 2: What a god. We could talk for another two hours. 1131 00:54:02,876 --> 00:54:04,756 Speaker 1: I don't want to. I wanted to go through the 1132 00:54:04,836 --> 00:54:06,316 Speaker 1: room and just ask about everything you got. 1133 00:54:06,796 --> 00:54:08,396 Speaker 2: Let me show you downstairs real quick. 1134 00:54:08,396 --> 00:54:09,716 Speaker 1: I'll be awesome and maybe we'll do it again. 1135 00:54:09,716 --> 00:54:11,796 Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, I think we should do it again. Yeah. 1136 00:54:11,796 --> 00:54:16,676 Speaker 1: Cool. Thanks so much to David Page for inviting us 1137 00:54:16,676 --> 00:54:19,436 Speaker 1: into his home and playing for us. You can hear 1138 00:54:19,476 --> 00:54:22,356 Speaker 1: all of our favorite Toto songs and other stuff Davids 1139 00:54:22,356 --> 00:54:25,836 Speaker 1: played on on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. 1140 00:54:26,236 --> 00:54:29,196 Speaker 1: Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash 1141 00:54:29,236 --> 00:54:31,676 Speaker 1: broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our 1142 00:54:31,676 --> 00:54:35,756 Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. 1143 00:54:36,236 --> 00:54:39,196 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with 1144 00:54:39,276 --> 00:54:42,756 Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer 1145 00:54:42,916 --> 00:54:47,276 Speaker 1: is Ben Tollway. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 1146 00:54:47,676 --> 00:54:50,436 Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 1147 00:54:50,516 --> 00:54:54,876 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 1148 00:54:54,956 --> 00:54:57,756 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four 1149 00:54:57,876 --> 00:55:02,596 Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, 1150 00:55:03,276 --> 00:55:05,916 Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, 1151 00:55:05,956 --> 00:55:08,716 Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's 1152 00:55:08,716 --> 00:55:10,756 Speaker 1: by any Beats. I'm justin Richmond.