WEBVTT - Sinclair's STIRR Bets That All TV Viewing is Local 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:12.480 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.759 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.680 Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.239 guest is Adam Ware, vice president and General Manager of 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:28.880 National Networks and Platforms for Sinclair Broadcast Group, where is 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.520 knee deep in the streaming wars, but rather than global domination, 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.879 he's fighting for AD dollars in local markets around the country. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.959 Sinclair is investing big in Stir, an AD supported platform 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.800 that aggregates local newscasts and other content from Sinclair's nearly 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.360 two hundred TV stations, where, who previously worked in distribution 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.879 for Fox in its early days and for Barry Diller's 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:57.320 nineteen nineties media ventures, shares insights from the experience of 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.480 building Stir over the past two years. In our com versation. 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.880 Adam Ware, vice president and General manager of Sinclair Broadcast 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.200 Groups National Networks and Platforms Group, thank you so much 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:13.080 for joining us. You're welcome. I think the podcast is 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.399 now concluded with the length of my title, and I 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.480 want to start by talking about one of the services 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.520 that you've run, which is called Stir and it's a 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.160 it's a streaming platform and a supported streaming platform. And 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.200 why it was intriguing to me and I wanted to 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.479 talk to you today was that we have the press 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.480 certainly is guilty of sort of shaping the streaming wars 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.880 as certainly a global race, a global chase that is 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.760 unprecedented in its in its geographical scope, and it is 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.760 definitely one of the things that is changing the game 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.440 for the the biggest media conglomerates. But that doesn't mean 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.120 that there isn't a you know, a ground game to 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.480 be had in streaming in local markets. And that is 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.560 where Stir and Sinclair with its many many stations comes in. 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:02.480 Tell us tell us about Stir, which is, if I'm 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.920 not mistaken, coming on about two years old, and tell 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.920 us sort of all the all the elements that you 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.360 have built in to stirre and tell us how this 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.760 this AD supported business is doing in this you know, 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.640 as we get here to the end of there is 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:22.040 a it's a national service, and I think the line 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.240 I like to use to explain it is it's streaming 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.880 TV from your local TV station for free, so as 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:33.239 opposed to being sort of this national service coming from somewhere. Uh, 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.760 I would love that in a focus group, if I 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:40.960 were to ask them where is stir made, they would go, oh, 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:46.440 that's that's from Fox right or or Como in Seattle, like, 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.120 that's my from my local TV station. So at the 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:54.360 at the core, that was putting content that was uniquely local, 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.560 front and center on a platform on a service. UM. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.360 Stir is not an afronym for anything. Ster literally came 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.040 from two parts. One is the challenger side of it, 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.919 like stirring it up, and the other part is as 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.800 a mix of content, so stirring up the content. And 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.480 at the core of this was local news as as 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:22.960 a as a fundamental you know, uh, foundation of the service, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:30.320 complimented by other local programming, a complimented by the local 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.040 syndicated hits that the stations owned and have the streaming 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:38.240 rights to in their marketplace. Uh. And then go uh 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.040 and build out a free service out of that, but 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.120 not not an on demand service because at the core 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.000 of this was a couple a couple of sort of 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:55.280 key factors. The first factor was, Okay, do you have 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.640 to have stations the top d M A s to 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:03.400 make this work? And the reality is that when you 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.480 look at where streaming is the strongest. It doesn't match 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:12.520 up to the top d m A right, so UM, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:17.320 there's a there's Nielsen put out an interesting study last year. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.720 I think they analyze where are the strongest d m 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:26.520 as for streaming? UM. The number one d m A 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.640 for streaming I think is Austin. SE. Of that d 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:36.280 m A streams, Cleveland watches the most amount per day 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.000 on a streaming basis. UM. Austin and Salt Lake City 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.680 are tied for number two among the meter markets for 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.520 the most that owned streaming devices right now. New York, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.200 l A and Chicago are up there always because they're 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:56.960 huge populations, but it's actually it's a different footprint when 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.880 you look at streaming, and Saint Claire's footprint matched up 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.200 really nicely with that. So Austin we have a pretty 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.760 strong TV station in Austin, UH and Salt Lake City 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.840 we have a pretty strong TV station in Salt Lake 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.039 City and so on. So that served as the basis 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.800 of the footprint for can we launch a national service 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:23.120 that was locally targeted at scale and and appeal to 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:28.039 markets where they were more likely to stream? Right? I 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.920 think the second part of streaming is that um Nielsen, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:37.320 the same Nielsen study, I think the stat was somewhere 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:44.960 around fifty or so. Uh watch traditional local TV news mhm. Right, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.280 So there's always assumption in streamers don't watch news at 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.919 all and don't watch TV stations. You're watching short form 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:56.120 content produced for five cents on YouTube. That's right, That's right. 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.720 And and the reality is I'm sure people are, but 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.400 they're actually watching local TV news um. And so that 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.440 became the basic fundamentals. Did we have the markets? Did 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.480 we have a footprint that can make this work at 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.640 scale in the right d M s? And the answer 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:18.279 is yes, right, did we um? Did we have the 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:23.520 right genres to work locally? Yeah? Right? And Stir features 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:28.360 a hundred thousand hours of live local news a year. Uh. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.240 Did we have a corporate owner that was willing to 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.640 invest uh and not look for an immediate r o 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.719 I that year because streaming takes investment. Absolutely, because Sinclair 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.680 as a history of that. All those ingredients went into start. 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.479 Let me ask you how does it work with the 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.200 station's how did the state? How do how does the 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.120 monetization work? Does the monitors that you know, if if 0:06:55.160 --> 0:07:00.160 if the COMO six o'clock News gets you know, five 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.599 hundred thousand views. How do they get Is there a 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.000 process that they get credit for that? Or is that? 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.760 Or do or do the stations like you know, they 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.680 can sort of contribute their their news and their advertising 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.960 to the greater good of the broader Sinclair Broadcast Group. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:16.640 Can you talk about how that works just on a 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:21.200 business proposition with having that many stations contributing to this service? Sure? 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.400 Sure so. Uh there's two parts that one part is 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:29.880 that um, local O T T O T T revenues 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:35.800 UH are exploding on a local basis. And and and 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.120 that's just the sale of O T T inventory. Um, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.000 you actually get a higher CPM on a local basis 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.040 than you would on a national basis. It's a similar 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:50.040 between network and local spot right, the same sort of differences. 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:55.480 And the TV stations are have sales teams on the 0:07:55.520 --> 0:08:00.480 street talking to local TV advertisers who want to be 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.240 in O T T UH in this kind of the 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.240 same way. Those same aviturs way back when wanted to 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.840 be in cable. But back then the TV station wasn't 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.880 selling cable, they were just selling their TV station. Well, 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.360 now they're selling their TV station and they're selling O 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.480 T T inventory and the conversations are within largely with 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:24.960 endemic advertisers. Uh. Yes, in large parts about endemic advertisers. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:30.760 Um that want to now find campaigns across multiple platforms. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.360 But then you also see new advertisers. Um, I'll give you. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.680 I'll give you an example. Right, So in Bowie, Texas, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.120 which is located between Fort Worth and at Ardmore, I've 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.520 I've actually been there a long time ago. I've been there, 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:52.200 and the stations in Texas we have, we have stations 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:57.360 in San Antonio, Austin, Abilene, to Oklahoma and so on. Uh. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:03.600 That client is a horse auction client, and that horse 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.320 auction client was buying advertising locally to get people to 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:12.280 show up to the auction. They were using Facebook Live 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.360 as a means of streaming to those that couldn't get 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:21.360 to the auction. All of a sudden, COVID hits unless 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:26.560 people are showing up to the auction and the station 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.839 while liking the client, while liking Facebook Live. It was like, 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.000 you know, it's okay, but what more can we do? 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.160 We like, we like TV. We know TV advertising is 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.439 really powerful, and so what the stations in in that 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.080 territory did they met with the clients, they said, let's 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.360 let's brainstorm about how we can take advente of STIR 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.920 And so they came up with a really cool idea 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.920 to make a seven channel out of it. And so 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.080 there is a channel now called the Horse Shopping Channel. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:05.679 It's on stir. Uh. It features live auctions of horse 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.720 auctions throughout a month, and then when that programming is 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.640 it on, it features other sort of related content on 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.760 that channel. And it is a completely paid for by 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.680 the client channel. And so that client, that local client, 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.760 instead of just buying thirty second commercials or using Facebook, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.400 they now have their own television channel. And I mean 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.120 and the obviously the r o I is good enough 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.600 for them to continue it, like did they see a bounce? 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.400 It has been so far, you know. I think part 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.800 of how they measure their r o I is, you know, 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.839 do we sell more horses? Right? That's one way. I think. 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.440 The other is have they grown their brand? Have they 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:50.160 enhanced their brand? Uh? And they have a business model 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.680 that there's a lot of horse auctions out there. So 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.040 part of their business model is to actually now be 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.960 the conduit for other horse auctions who will then pay 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.840 the end to be on this channel, right, so they're 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.440 play a little broker. So as an example, that's a 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.040 completely new type of advertiser that's buying this OTT inventory. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.800 And in that scenario, do the Texas stations have any 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.000 piece of the horse auction channel or is that yes, 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.120 Well theyn't have a piece of the channel, but they 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.360 get a ship. They get a commission on the revenue 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.640 because they were the people that execute the agreement. When 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:30.920 the inventory is sold um on stir the state. If 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.280 the station is selling the package to local advertiser, they 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.079 will get their share of that package. If the if 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.280 it's sold through programmatic, the station doesn't get that share 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.400 because it's not the station did the local sales through programmatic. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.320 Um And then what we do is you have a 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.320 second piece of this is that we also return. So 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.079 that's the form of a commission. Then the other thing 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.240 we do is our whole model is a revenue share. 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.439 So any partner who's on our platform there as a 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.360 station or it's a third party partner, based on their 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.199 delivery and based on the revenue attached their delivery, they 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.599 get the revenues from Star. So that is that is 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:17.320 the second model for them. Um uh which I guess 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.240 it is a way they're selling ads. But even if 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.800 they don't sell an ad, they still get if they're 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.200 not the ones selling the ad, they'll still get their 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.880 share based on the popularity of programming. Most of your 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.400 stations in addition to making the newscasts on STIR, if 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.640 I go to Como or w j l A in 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.440 d C, do most of them offer a live stream 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.000 of a of a live newscast, Yeah, they do. They 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.520 What the what again? Where they started? And this goes 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:46.959 back to sort of again why they were sort of 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.600 early in streaming. What they first did is they put 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:55.520 the live stream on their website and um, people would 0:12:55.520 --> 0:13:00.280 watch it, but you know, it really wasn't the primary 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.120 people were watching the live news. They were the primaryy 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.559 they were watching live news was on television. Um. Then 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.760 there would be a live stream in their local app, 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.680 but again the local app really was used more for 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:20.440 breaking news or weather or things like that. So what 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.840 we did with the live news was, instead of just 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.960 putting up a live stream of it, we said, all 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.360 these stations do anywhere from you know, four to six 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.280 hours of live local news a day, even more eight 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.520 hours on the high end, live local news a day. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.120 Why don't we actually create a channel out of it. 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.400 They're already on a channel right there. They have a channel, 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.600 and then they're going to syndicated shows, and they go 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.520 on through network shows and so on. They have a 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.640 twenty four seven channel. Why don't we do the same thing. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.920 Why don't we do this seventy three times? Because we 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.679 have seventy three stations that do all this local news 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.320 as part of the lineup, And so we came up 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.040 with the channel called the stir City Channel. And so 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.480 the stir City Channel is a localized channel. It's in 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.280 the first position on the platform, it's the first position 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:14.320 on the EPG. It's powered by the station. So in Baltimore, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.400 it's it's stir City powered by Fox. In Seattle, it's 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.240 you know, stir City powered by Como News, and the 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.840 local news will run live on the TV station and 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.760 on their stir City channel. Then let's use Seattle as 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.880 an example. If they, let's say, have their morning news 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.880 from five to seven am, and then at seven am 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.520 they would go to Good Morning America. Well, on the 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.280 stir City channel, we wouldn't go to Good Morning America. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:48.320 We go to other programming, and so Stir actually programs 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:53.520 out a seven channel. It's very much like an it's 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.200 a network. It's the ster City network with local affiliates 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.240 that put in their live local news. And the reason 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.480 we did that was because we believe so firmly that 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:09.600 linear was the way people wanted to consume uh, streaming 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:14.800 video that so much so that there wasn't even we 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.640 knew it was happening, but the industry couldn't figure out 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.480 a term for it. Right, it was called a VOD 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.360 So so if you had a linear a what what 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:29.040 what is that? And sure enough Pluto was in the 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.760 linear business, Zumo was in the linear business, Stirs in 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.440 the linear business, Peacocks in the linear business. And on 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.480 every road who channels now in the linear business. The 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.960 record Netflix in their own way, is in the linear business. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:47.880 They're testing a linear channel, right, I think of France. Uh, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.160 and an auto play from one episode to the next 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.400 is a linear experience, right, It's sitting on the couch 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:00.080 doing less work, someone curating something for you and and 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.120 uh And so ster City became the embodied and how 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:04.800 we were going to take this live local news and 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:09.560 put it into a ster City just for clarification. If 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:14.000 I'm sitting in UM St. Louis and I pull up STIR, 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.480 I'm going to get a St. Louis focused stream of information, 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.080 or I will get a pastiche of different Sinclair newscasts 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.760 from around the country. In St. Louis, you will get 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.600 a mixt right um. In Austin you will get a 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.120 local news okay, and and that's dependent on where you 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.560 have Staying Okay, go where we have news affiliates. So 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.080 that's actually the next sort of phase for US now 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:46.800 is to add affiliates and markets where we're not in UH. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.760 And maybe that's multiple affiliates in markets where we're in 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:57.000 right um or or filling markets where we're not in UH. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.720 That either comes from partnering with a Stay and we 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.000 are in pretty advanced talks with a couple to have 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.000 them come on join a STIR affiliates filling in some 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.560 of the bigger markets. Um Or it comes from producing 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.320 your own news in the market. So in Ohio, for instance, 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.560 we have stations and Cincinnati Columbus, so we don't have 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.639 a station in Cleveland. But the idea of using that 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.160 infrastructure to produce a news that would be relevant for 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:32.399 people in Cleveland or Ohio. That's clearly a path. Do 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.879 you have any national sales layer on this? Do you 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.080 like do old fashioned like barter? You know, you bundle 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.359 all the inventory that you have from your stations and 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.600 try to sell it to National spot buyers? Do you do? 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.639 Is that a factor? So there's yes. So there's multiple 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.840 pieces to it. Like one first pieces is local sales 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:59.560 staff going into local advertisers selling the equivalent of local 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:04.200 spot uh um O t T inventory. They're either selling 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:09.640 stir or they're selling inventory that we've purchased from Broku 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.120 for instance. UM that isn't in anything we own, but 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.920 it's we're in a better position to sell that inventory 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.639 than Roku is, and so we're arbitrary in a local newscast. Right, 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.399 it could be in you know, a cable networks app 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.800 for instance. UM, if they have inventory, we're in a 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.600 better position to sell it locally and take advantage of that. 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.760 So there is local spots sales, then there is National 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.480 spots sales, and that National Spot sales goes through a 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.720 company that we have that's called Compulsor t T. And 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.080 what that does is we go to advertisers in New 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.480 York that are interested in buying TV and O T 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.840 T in San Antonio, and we we go to that 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.320 agency with a package, and that agency then goes by 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:03.280 the market and that follows the spot you know, traditional 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.840 national spot business. It applies out to T as well. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.080 Then there are advertisers that want to buy the whole 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.200 the whole country, want to buy just just one ftprint, 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.479 want to buy the platform and so on and uh. 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.240 That can come in the form of a sponsorship of 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:24.680 a channel or of the platform, or they own their 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.760 own channel like the horse Shopping channel is a national 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:35.600 channel as an example. UM. And and because we're linear, 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.760 because stir City is actually programmed day date and time, 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.439 it fits into a network format. So we can actually 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.360 sell a schedule to an advertiser based on a network 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.120 basis because it's day, date and time. What is your 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.960 what is your most important metric? Is it? I'm guessing 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.760 it's at this point it's not just raw viewership? Is 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.760 it engagement? Is it time spent with the programming? Like 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:08.760 what what do you look to measure your growth? Um? 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:16.120 Organic downloads and usage versus us buying them? Um uh 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.800 churn you know how many are we keeping and how 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.000 how how how deep are they getting into the service? 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.040 So are they spending not just that they spending a 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.200 lot of time, but are they doing a lot of discovery? 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:32.400 And when you say churn in an ad supported environment, 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.119 do you mean just engagement? Like if they go for 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.040 like you would cull churn, if they don't touch the 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.240 aft for a week or two or something like that, correct, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.400 they stop using it, Yeah, which is which is quite common, right, 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.280 turn and turn in the subscription part or in the 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:55.159 ad supporter part is fairly significant. And um, you'll see 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.679 people in the marketplace, you know, having campaigns in rocou 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.960 store or Prime Video or whatever, uh or in the 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:11.000 fire TV app store weekly. Right, they're constantly refreshing the churn. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.800 They're not just growing, they're refreshing the churn. And um, 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.680 that's one model you know where you're you're throwing tons 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.159 of money against something and you're bringing in tons of 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:26.200 viewers and keeping them for some part and then hopefully 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:27.880 getting them to watch a little bit more, a little 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.080 bit more, but most a lot of them are going 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.280 doesn't leave. That's the nature of what's happening right now. 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.959 There's a tremendous amount of sampling going on, so so 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.240 as as an example of what happened with COVID, Right, 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.760 everyone all of a sudden was at home. People were 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:48.400 looking for alternatives to Netflix. Right, Netflix was no longer 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:53.920 altern they were looking form. That was Jimmy Kimmel's joke, Right, 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:59.200 It was like I watched I finished Netflix last last night. Right. Um, 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.880 So you had people then sampling like crazy, and if 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.119 you were free, they sampled even more. And so the 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.439 key question for us is we always sort of knew 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.119 that that would be sort of a moment in time 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.240 and what would now what would happen after, not meaning 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.840 after COVID ended, but meaning after you So that spike 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:22.960 of people looking for alternatives, we knew it would settle. 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.880 And the question for us is would we go back 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.639 to where we were they just come and leave, or 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.400 would we maintain some percentage of it? So for us, 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.359 going back to the metrics that we cared about, we're 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.680 sitting now. The peak for us was somewhere in May 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.600 June forty five days I would say of late May 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:51.359 through early July was the peak. And um, they were 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.000 downloading us for all sorts of reasons, and we weren't 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.920 buying anything. We had no media running during that time 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.320 we had we were showing up in stores, listings and 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.879 things like that, and so they were downloading us for 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.639 local news. They were downloading us because it was free 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.520 TV and we had all this sampling. We got to 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:13.240 this peak. And when that happens, your session time tanks. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.800 So on average we're at about forty minutes or so 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.119 per session time. You bring in tons of downloads, your 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.920 session time is going almost some drop because you've got 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:29.879 people click and gone basically. And and now I would 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:33.719 say we started to drop posts then and then in 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:38.000 August September, in October we've settled out in at a 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:42.359 certain level. End results were about a hundred and fifty 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:46.240 higher than we were pre COVID. Can you give me, 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.400 can you give me any kind of a ballpark of 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:53.320 what you're what that aggregated audience is sure, so you 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.920 know we're doing it about forty minutes session time. We 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.920 have about six million, a little bit over six billion 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:04.560 downloads of three and a half million of them are 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:09.800 are active. Um. That dates back from January one through 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:13.760 uh not that not yes, I haven't done yesterday yet, 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:18.959 but the day before yesterday. Um, And we're in the 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:28.240 neighborhood of you know, somewhere over a million monthly uniques. Um. Again, 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.040 that will fluctuate. You'll see it go signficalarly higher, you 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.439 see it go below somewhere. So I would say somewhere 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:38.520 in that range right now, um, which if you go 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:41.399 back and look where Pluto and Zumo and the others 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:47.400 were with with far less competition after two years, um, 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:50.640 we're right in line based on our understanding of where 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:53.200 their numbers were back then. And where does that in 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.240 terms of your plane has would you say the pandemic 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:58.720 the conditions of the pandemic hav acceller are you like 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:00.879 ahead of ahead of war you expected to be at 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:05.040 this point because yeah, yeah, like eighteen months ahead, so 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:10.119 with no marketing money, right, so we we we really 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:12.960 have yet to turn on the marketing part. And the 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.719 marketing part really comes in two ways. It's it's us 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.800 going in and spending money in the stores, but it's 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:23.880 really the local stations promoting us. And the local stations 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.399 have been promoting us a little bit as relates to 0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:30.720 go to stir to watch your local news, because they're 0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:33.400 also promoting their app, they're also promoting their website they're 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.439 also quoting Tonight on their own news on the station, 0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:41.480 and then we just rolled out their syndicated programming. So 0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:44.200 in Baltimore again, I think they own the rights to 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:50.040 Judge Duty, Family Feud and maybe maybe Wheel in Jeopardy. 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.760