Speaker 1: Previously on happy Face.
Speaker 2: Today I find out if my worst fears and insecurities
Speaker 2: are true. If I'm capable of being like my dad.
Speaker 3: You would never do what your father's done, and you
Speaker 3: could never.
Speaker 2: Be what he is.
Speaker 4: I would like to tell my story, the writer of
Speaker 4: the letter begins. The exclamation point is all his, so
Speaker 4: is the labored printing, and the odd mixture of capital
Speaker 4: and lowercase letters.
Speaker 5: Are hurt people.
Speaker 1: But I'm scared of You're not like him.
Speaker 6: Because of that, our universe has a plan for each
Speaker 6: and every one of us.
Speaker 2: I wish I could see this.
Speaker 1: I want to help you feel it. You have to
Speaker 1: let me.
Speaker 4: The letter has a happy face at the top of
Speaker 4: the first page, two tiny circles for eyes, an upturned
Speaker 4: sliver of a moon for mouth.
Speaker 1: Have a nice day.
Speaker 3: Doctor James Fallon is a neuroscientist at the University of California.
Speaker 4: So here you are, and here's the normal. And it
Speaker 4: turns out yours is completely normal.
Speaker 7: That's amazing. Yeah, with the sun, I don't know shine.
Speaker 8: Oh I.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: You told me once that being the daughter of a
Speaker 3: serial killer isn't something you grow out of, it's something
Speaker 3: you grow into.
Speaker 9: Yes, you just can't run it. You can't even when
Speaker 9: he dies.
Speaker 5: One day, when he dies.
Speaker 9: Those swimmories will still be there. I mean, I don't
Speaker 9: think about the future with hit my.
Speaker 1: Dad in it.
Speaker 2: I live my life by my own desires and I
Speaker 2: own attentions, and I could get everything I want, except
Speaker 2: forgetting things.
Speaker 3: As Arthur Golden writes and Memoirs of a Geisha. After all,
Speaker 3: when a stone is dropped into a pond, the water
Speaker 3: continues quivering even after the stone has sunk to the bottom.
Speaker 3: I'm Lauren Brighte Pacheco, and this is happy face. While
Speaker 3: having the brain scan last week removed certain doubts from Melissa,
Speaker 3: the healing is still a process. Even simple things like
Speaker 3: a happy memory of her dad and the smell of
Speaker 3: house paint as he painted the walls of her childhood
Speaker 3: home are tainted by his crimes.
Speaker 2: I remember when we took possession of the house, my
Speaker 2: dad painting the walls white, and it came to my mind.
Speaker 9: Sorry, it came to my mind. This weekend.
Speaker 2: I I bought a fixer upper in Ohio, and when
Speaker 2: I entered the fixer upper, I thought, this needs gallery
Speaker 2: white walls.
Speaker 9: I just see it's had beautiful arches.
Speaker 2: I saw white. The walls would need to be white,
Speaker 2: So I started painting.
Speaker 9: The walls white.
Speaker 2: And for hours, I says, painting, I saw my dad
Speaker 2: and the smell of the fresh paint and my dad's
Speaker 2: care and painting the walls white in this.
Speaker 9: Farmhouse is one of those good memories, you know, of
Speaker 9: my dad taking care of a property.
Speaker 2: And he's the one who taught me, or instilled in me,
Speaker 2: this love for real estate and this love for fixing
Speaker 2: up properties. And that's something that I've had to reconcile
Speaker 2: because a lot of things that I love are rooted
Speaker 2: back to my dad.
Speaker 3: Now, every time Melissa looks at white paint, those good
Speaker 3: memories are overridden by what she learned that Keith used
Speaker 3: paint to cover over the splattered blood after killing Tanya Bennett.
Speaker 2: And that's not the first thing that happened. But on
Speaker 2: my birthday was just a couple weeks ago, and my
Speaker 2: boyfriend bought me a road bike. And I grew up
Speaker 2: with my dad cycling, and he bought me the cycling shoes,
Speaker 2: and the first thing that went into my mind was
Speaker 2: Tanya Bennett and my dad saying I would wear my
Speaker 2: cycling shoes so when it leave the soul print and.
Speaker 9: I it's it's so.
Speaker 5: Hard because I love these things.
Speaker 2: Everything.
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 5: I've tried, I've tried a run.
Speaker 2: I can't and I'll never I'll never put those shoes,
Speaker 2: all those cycling shoes and not think of Tanya.
Speaker 9: I'll never be able to.
Speaker 8: I want to.
Speaker 3: But Melissa, you didn't kill Tanya Bennett.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a question of going back to those memories
Speaker 3: and just trying to take the good from them. You
Speaker 3: cannot take responsibility for your father's actions. For Keith's family,
Speaker 3: shaking off guilt isn't easy. Here's Melissa's mother Rose talking
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 10: Well, everybody assumes you are guilty by association just because
Speaker 10: you knew him. Because I was his wife.
Speaker 3: I knew everything that he did. I knew he murdered
Speaker 3: those women.
Speaker 7: I knew, and.
Speaker 10: I had no clue he.
Speaker 7: Had a second life.
Speaker 3: Over the years, accusations have come in that Melissa wants
Speaker 3: attention for her father's crimes. People attack her on social
Speaker 3: media or flood the comment sections on websites. Even her
Speaker 3: own father has accused her of trying to profit off
Speaker 3: of his murders. In his letters to her. But the
Speaker 3: truth is Melissa's whole career has been a way to
Speaker 3: atone for her father's sins, and that's true of her
Speaker 3: whole family. One of her siblings is a nurse, another
Speaker 3: has enlisted to protect the country, her mother spends her
Speaker 3: days trying to resettle families in desperate situations, and Melissa,
Speaker 3: of course, is working to speak out for victims and
Speaker 3: give them a voice. What's interesting is that as much
Speaker 3: as the family has tried to distance themselves from Keith's
Speaker 3: horrific crimes, Keith is also constantly reminding the public that
Speaker 3: they are his own. It's important to him. No one
Speaker 3: else takes credit for them. Here's reporter Phil Stafford talking
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 2: Have you written to my father since our conversation?
Speaker 4: No, I haven't been in touch with him for years.
Speaker 4: I've done a number of things since then. But you know,
Speaker 4: to say the least, we're dealing with a split personality here,
Speaker 4: someone driven by some pretty serious unconscious compulsions. So that's
Speaker 4: one side of it, and the other side of it
Speaker 4: was every once in a while, this monster from the
Speaker 4: unconscious would break through.
Speaker 3: At one point, Keith was allegedly offered the opportunity to
Speaker 3: give false testimony against Phil in exchange for favorable treatment
Speaker 3: in prison, and to his credit, driven by some strange
Speaker 3: moral code, he refused.
Speaker 4: But there's also the chance that someone who's as mentally
Speaker 4: unusual as obviously he was might also have been interested
Speaker 4: in just playing more games and keeping people in the air.
Speaker 4: He did confess to murders that he didn't commit, so
Speaker 4: he was playing fast and loose with the truth at
Speaker 4: some point, trying to get more attention, which I think
Speaker 4: is one of the deeper reasons behind some of these killings,
Speaker 4: just getting attention, getting recognition as some sort of person
Speaker 4: that he felt had been denied him all his life.
Speaker 3: When you met Jasperson, you had read those letters. So
Speaker 3: was there that moment of authenticity that you knew he
Speaker 3: was the author? And what did that feel like? Because
Speaker 3: I can imagine that those letters were terrifying to read.
Speaker 4: I knew from my own research that he had to
Speaker 4: be the guy. I mean, there were times when I
Speaker 4: was talking with him, when he was talking to me
Speaker 4: about what he had done, that I had those skin
Speaker 4: crawling moments, that's for sure. When he talked about killing
Speaker 4: one of the truck stop whores in the cab of
Speaker 4: his truck and he watched it from twenty feet above.
Speaker 4: That's when I realized that this is a very strange.
Speaker 3: Person, and regardless of everything Melissa has undertaken and tried
Speaker 3: to prove, that very strange person will always be her father.
Speaker 2: Well, how I even started my whole beginning was when
Speaker 2: my daughter asked me a question. She got off the
Speaker 2: school bus. She was learning about genealogy in the family tree,
Speaker 2: and they were being basic. Of course, the family tree
Speaker 2: is going up to your grandparents. So she filled out
Speaker 2: her dad's side, you know, samside, Nana, Papa, and then
Speaker 2: on my side Grandma rose me. And then she realized
Speaker 2: there's a miss grandfather here. She said, you know, mom,
Speaker 2: everybody has a daddy. Where's your daddy? And I wasn't
Speaker 2: expecting that she was six the kindergarten. It just took
Speaker 2: me back. I thought, how am I going to answer
Speaker 2: this for her? And so I said, yes, I have
Speaker 2: a daddy lives in Salem. And I left it at that,
Speaker 2: and I gave her the name to put, just the
Speaker 2: first name to put in.
Speaker 9: I didn't want the last name.
Speaker 2: From there, I went to the libraries, I went everywhere,
Speaker 2: just scouring for information about how do I reconcile this
Speaker 2: for myself so that I can tell my child this
Speaker 2: in a way that she can understand without terrifying her.
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to be public because at this
Speaker 2: point I had nobody knew I had a business, Nobody
Speaker 2: knew who my father was.
Speaker 9: We had bought our house, our first home.
Speaker 2: My daughter was happy and well adjusted in kindergarten. None
Speaker 2: of my friends knew, my church groups didn't know. But
Speaker 2: I kept thinking about my daughter's question.
Speaker 3: What do you want your children to take away from
Speaker 3: your journey?
Speaker 2: Finding out that I'm not a psychopath liberated me too
Speaker 2: as a parent, because my son was scared, and I
Speaker 2: think my son was asking a very complex question when
Speaker 2: he asked, like, is it a choice or is it
Speaker 2: something that you are?
Speaker 11: He wants to know more about his grandfather, my dad,
Speaker 11: and I had to keep telling him you're nothing like him,
Speaker 11: You're nothing like him.
Speaker 3: As both Leroy and Don Findley made a huge impact
Speaker 3: on the Happy Face team, and he stayed in contact
Speaker 3: with both Melissa and me.
Speaker 2: Is it Don or is it Leroy?
Speaker 6: Well, you know what, after talking to you, I started
Speaker 6: telling people my real name.
Speaker 9: Really, Yes, ma'am, why did you start doing that?
Speaker 6: Someone pointed out to me that, well, if LeRoy's really healed,
Speaker 6: why don't you just start introducing people who don't.
Speaker 1: Know you as who you are.
Speaker 6: Because I'm back to where I was before it happened,
Speaker 6: and I saw myself changing.
Speaker 1: I felt it in my energy.
Speaker 6: People who were They're like, something's different about you.
Speaker 1: So this whole thing was like because of.
Speaker 6: Meeting Melissa amazingly lifted off my shoulders, because she answered
Speaker 6: the questions that I needed answered. And God, the universe
Speaker 6: has rewarded me in so many ways. He's like, I
Speaker 6: put you through hell, you have come out smelling like carnations.
Speaker 6: Now it's time for you to be rewarded. So I've
Speaker 6: turned into a whole different person. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: I'm still same spirit and soul.
Speaker 3: So it sounds like you went back to your former name,
Speaker 3: but you've gotten a new life, yes, ma'am. And it
Speaker 3: would seem that Don had left a huge impression on
Speaker 3: Melissa as well.
Speaker 2: You were in my thoughts last night actually when I
Speaker 2: went to this floating restaurant on the water and I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: the last time I was here was a puffins with Don,
Speaker 2: and I remembered that whole experience and how intense it
Speaker 2: felt leading up to that moment. I was terrified, absolutely
Speaker 2: terrified to meet it up with you because it I
Speaker 2: didn't know. I didn't know what you would think of me,
Speaker 2: And I've already dealt with so many people having preconceived
Speaker 2: notions of me and criticizing me. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: this to feel sorry for myself, but I had enough
Speaker 2: already on my plate.
Speaker 5: I didn't need I know.
Speaker 3: What you mean on some level, Don. I think Melissa's
Speaker 3: biggest fear was that twenty years ago when she read
Speaker 3: your words in the newspaper. Yeah, she knew that you
Speaker 3: were speaking the truth. She knew that you saw through everything,
Speaker 3: and the narrative that she'd been fed by her father
Speaker 3: all those years was not the truth. So her fear
Speaker 3: in facing you was that you would look in her
Speaker 3: face and you would see the face of her father,
Speaker 3: and that you would blame her for his horrible crimes.
Speaker 6: And I fully understand that because people, like I said,
Speaker 6: don't know how to take me. And everybody in society
Speaker 6: always prejudges everybody and assumes that they know about everybody,
Speaker 6: but they don't know about themselves, and now Melissa learned
Speaker 6: that none of it's true. Everybody has assumptions, everybody's gonna
Speaker 6: come up with their own ideas, but it's only us
Speaker 6: as individuals that we can do for ourselves. I'm trying
Speaker 6: to word this the right way, but we all know
Speaker 6: I'm the Stone or Yogi so.
Speaker 2: Perfect.
Speaker 1: But if they understand it's cool, they don't.
Speaker 6: That's their problem, Melissa, because they're not the ones having
Speaker 6: to live in our body or walk our shoes.
Speaker 3: As we set out to make this series, we wanted
Speaker 3: to give Melissa the tools and opportunity to understand and
Speaker 3: confront her dad, the man she hadn't seen in so
Speaker 3: many years, but still had such control over her and
Speaker 3: her life choices. What Melissa ultimately got, though, was actually
Speaker 3: much better, a release from Keith's manipulation and the confidence
Speaker 3: to create her own narrative. In the end, it was
Speaker 3: Melissa's choice not to confront Keith. She knew she didn't
Speaker 3: need to see him, or read his letters, or let
Speaker 3: him invade her life anymore, and that realization set her
Speaker 3: free on so many levels. And it was a direct
Speaker 3: result of her meeting with Don.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find words of what that experience was.
Speaker 2: I think that I have found that meeting to be
Speaker 2: a sacred meeting, and I felt like it was a
Speaker 2: crossroads moment in my life.
Speaker 9: That was a gift.
Speaker 2: I thought you would blame me and see my father
Speaker 2: and me, and I said, I wanted to go to
Speaker 2: this doctor to find out if I am biologically hardwired
Speaker 2: to be like my dad, And you said, well, your
Speaker 2: brain may be, but your heart isn't.
Speaker 6: I said, you may have his blood, but you don't
Speaker 6: have his heart, mind, or soul, because you wouldn't do
Speaker 6: what you do for others. So when you told me
Speaker 6: that you were going to go to the doctors and
Speaker 6: get that checked out, I believe I told you that
Speaker 6: you're not and I never got the answer to see
Speaker 6: if I was correct or wrong.
Speaker 9: Well, you were correct.
Speaker 2: My brain is perfectly normal and not hardwired to be
Speaker 2: a psychopath. And what gave me the courage to go
Speaker 2: do that was actually your statement to me after that though.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is like history just erased. Like there
Speaker 2: was this pressure that I always felt walking around this world,
Speaker 2: feeling like I have to prove myself.
Speaker 9: That's a lot of energy.
Speaker 2: To take into every encounter and it's unconscious that this
Speaker 2: point has been decades, so it's just well left this
Speaker 2: void like this open space. And I felt it all sudden.
Speaker 2: These wonderful things in the world just started to pour
Speaker 2: into that space. And yes, yes, I didn't know I
Speaker 2: was going to meet you this summer. I didn't know
Speaker 2: that the universe had this in store for me, and
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was worthy of this gift.
Speaker 1: You don't have to say no more. I am so happy,
Speaker 1: I really am.
Speaker 5: I'm not scared of my dad anymore. The Eliza has
Speaker 5: told me. I believed them, and I allowed him to
Speaker 5: shape me and put me in this place, this box.
Speaker 5: And I was terrified of him because everybody believed his
Speaker 5: narrative always, and so I couldn't outrun even his lies.
Speaker 5: And now he could say whatever he wanted to say and.
Speaker 9: I would be fine.
Speaker 3: During that conversation, Melissa brought up the fact that my dad,
Speaker 3: my father, had taken very seriously ill. She expressed her
Speaker 3: sentiments and almost envy that he had the benefit of
Speaker 3: being surrounded by his loving, proud family during this painful
Speaker 3: time and the sharp contrast to her own reality.
Speaker 2: You know, Lauren, sitting across from me, and her dad
Speaker 2: right now is in the hospital.
Speaker 9: Or in care, and.
Speaker 2: Lauren and I have had quite an opposite of upbringing,
Speaker 2: and the love that she has for her father and
Speaker 2: the care that she has for her father and that
Speaker 2: he has for her makes it so that she's right
Speaker 2: now currently in the most intense grief and pain, and
Speaker 2: that her father is surrounded by beautiful daughters, a beautiful
Speaker 2: family that loves him, and my dad will never get
Speaker 2: that because he didn't deserve that, because he didn't create
Speaker 2: the life that her dad created.
Speaker 9: And that's what I know.
Speaker 2: You know what, I bet you, There's going to come
Speaker 2: a day where my dad passes away and I won't
Speaker 2: even know it, Like I won't even know my dad
Speaker 2: died because all these years will have passed and I
Speaker 2: didn't say a word to him, and he never said
Speaker 2: a word to me.
Speaker 3: To be honest, I initially cringed and immediately felt protective
Speaker 3: of my privacy. Then my dad died the next day.
Speaker 3: Now that I've had the time to reflect, I realize
Speaker 3: Melissa was also grieving with me and for her father.
Speaker 3: Keith didn't just murder eight women. He killed the man
Speaker 3: Melissa thought she knew, and the father she dearly loved.
Speaker 3: Melissa's dad died when she was fifteen, and she's still
Speaker 3: grieving that loss. In that moment of mentioning my dad,
Speaker 3: she clearly expressed empathy and remorse, confirming she's truly the
Speaker 3: antithesis of a psychopath. But for Melissa's mom Rose, even
Speaker 3: her life with Keith was filled with a sort of grief.
Speaker 3: She struggled to articulate and understand.
Speaker 10: You know, an intimate partner, you hold each other and
Speaker 10: kindle each other. It was like, Okay, I'm gonna go
Speaker 10: watch TV.
Speaker 2: It was robotic.
Speaker 7: Yeah, or did you feel used?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 10: I just because I mean I never had men. I
Speaker 10: don't know what like, I'm a hooyfriend.
Speaker 7: Yeah, how men are?
Speaker 9: I thought that was the norm.
Speaker 3: You must have been so lonely.
Speaker 10: I was extremely lonely. Matter of fact, I would go
Speaker 10: to church and I knew my life was out of balance,
Speaker 10: but I just couldn't figure out why it.
Speaker 7: Was out of balance.
Speaker 10: But then I used to have a neighbor when we
Speaker 10: lived in Zilla, and there was a little old couple
Speaker 10: and summertimes they would sit out in the patio and
Speaker 10: play cards and they had their little lights on, you know,
Speaker 10: and I'd sit there and I'd listen to their conversation
Speaker 10: because they were so close, and I just thought, that's
Speaker 10: what our relations should be like, that you enjoy each
Speaker 10: other when you're even that old. And they'd laugh and
Speaker 10: they would just crack up jokes between them, and I thought,
Speaker 10: that's what it is, that's what I you know, that's
Speaker 10: what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 7: Like.
Speaker 3: Melissa and Don were initially linked by Keith, but they're
Speaker 3: both determined and to transcend his effects on their lives.
Speaker 6: Our gift now is to pass on the words of
Speaker 6: survival and that when you do make it through the
Speaker 6: tough times that are put in front of you that
Speaker 6: are out of your control, if you handle them in
Speaker 6: the right way.
Speaker 1: You will be rewarded.
Speaker 6: Whether you believe in God, the universe, aliens, birds.
Speaker 1: The gypsy and cats, you will be rewarded.
Speaker 6: And we are proof of that because both of us
Speaker 6: have lived in deep dark places.
Speaker 3: I just you know, for me, it really is humbling
Speaker 3: to watch. It is the triumph of good over evil.
Speaker 12: Ultimately, I mean, I really hope we can help not
Speaker 12: just each other grow further in our lives and stay connected,
Speaker 12: but to help other people.
Speaker 6: And I did tell you you will love and you
Speaker 6: will care. So I said those words, but I didn't
Speaker 6: believe them one hundred percent. I had to tell myself
Speaker 6: that stuff for years to get through it, and when
Speaker 6: I met Melissa.
Speaker 1: All those words were proven right. Does any of that
Speaker 1: make sense?
Speaker 9: Absolutely? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: The most telling change in Don was evident when confronted
Speaker 3: with the idea of being face to face with Keith
Speaker 3: present day.
Speaker 6: If I met him in person, I would hope that
Speaker 6: my power and my strength would hold me back and
Speaker 6: I would say you lose me and your daughter win.
Speaker 6: But in honesty action at this very moment, my anger
Speaker 6: sight still would want to put him in some kind
Speaker 6: of other pain, but not kill him. You know, I'm
Speaker 6: not trying to be mean or angry, but my good
Speaker 6: side would say we win, you lose. I think that
Speaker 6: part is stronger than my angry part, so I wouldn't
Speaker 6: do that, is what I feel in my heart. You know,
Speaker 6: I'll be honest, I really haven't even thought about you know.
Speaker 6: I used to think about the guy and so forth,
Speaker 6: but he ain't even in the back of my mind anymore.
Speaker 3: Like he's not living rent free in your brain anymore.
Speaker 3: He's not controlling your thoughts, and that's all part of
Speaker 3: I think your acceptance of yourself and going back to
Speaker 3: Don and letting Leroy go.
Speaker 6: Right, that's a great metaphor. I don't know how I
Speaker 6: didn't come up with it, but yeah, I am able
Speaker 6: to be more free than I've ever been.
Speaker 3: Now, what Melissa ultimately regained through the journey through Don,
Speaker 3: through everything, was to regain control of her own story
Speaker 3: without Keith. At points, you thought that you needed answers
Speaker 3: from your dad. How do you feel now, Yeah?
Speaker 2: I thought that I asked my dad really honest questions
Speaker 2: and that he would give really honest answers. But through
Speaker 2: this journey, I found that he doesn't tell honest. He
Speaker 2: tells his own narrative, and that changes depending on what
Speaker 2: he wants from you. And even if I was to
Speaker 2: meet with him, he would spin me a tale. I
Speaker 2: don't need any more of his narrative.
Speaker 9: That's control.
Speaker 3: So has this journey given you the narrative back?
Speaker 2: Yeah, me the freedom to tell my own story to myself,
Speaker 2: like who I really am who I intuitively thought I was, Like,
Speaker 2: this identity is really about our self beliefs, and we
Speaker 2: operate our lives by the beliefs we carry about who
Speaker 2: we are. And for so many years I operated my
Speaker 2: life with the story I told myself, which is I'm
Speaker 2: the daughter of a serial killer, Therefore I am bad.
Speaker 2: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I am
Speaker 2: part of that tree. And now that's no longer my story.
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa More, a mother, a woman, and that's what
Speaker 2: I am. There's no tagline like I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: have to carry daughter of a serial killer like I don't.
Speaker 2: It's just Melissa More. Just like you're Lauren. You don't
Speaker 2: have a banner behind you. You know, that's that's it's liberating,
Speaker 2: you know, it's celebrating.
Speaker 3: As sensational and at times surreal as Melissa's story has been,
Speaker 3: there's something very universal about her journey. It's really about
Speaker 3: the triumph of the human spirit over fear, shame, and
Speaker 3: ultimately grief. In the end, it's about hope, the hope
Speaker 3: that good can triumph over evil, or at least lesson
Speaker 3: its stinging.
Speaker 13: Oh hey, can it be another way to punish me?
Speaker 13: A thousand lies, light years fly, dark years wander slowly
Speaker 13: by my broken voice.
Speaker 8: It calls to me, what notes I'll never meet? I'll
Speaker 8: drift in words way out to see way out until
Speaker 8: I'm his story.
Speaker 9: Happy Face is a production of How Stuff Works.
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright, Pacheco Mangesha Ticketdour
Speaker 3: and Will Pearson.
Speaker 9: Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by Claire Campbell, Page
Speaker 9: Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer. Story editor is
Speaker 9: Matt Riddle. Audio editing by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown.
Speaker 9: Assistant editor is Taylor Chicogne.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper,
Speaker 2: and the Carlisle family