1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: Previously on happy Face. 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 2: Today I find out if my worst fears and insecurities 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: are true. If I'm capable of being like my dad. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 3: You would never do what your father's done, and you 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 3: could never. 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 2: Be what he is. 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 4: I would like to tell my story, the writer of 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 4: the letter begins. The exclamation point is all his, so 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 4: is the labored printing, and the odd mixture of capital 10 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 4: and lowercase letters. 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 5: Are hurt people. 12 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: But I'm scared of You're not like him. 13 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 6: Because of that, our universe has a plan for each 14 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 6: and every one of us. 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: I wish I could see this. 16 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: I want to help you feel it. You have to 17 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: let me. 18 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 4: The letter has a happy face at the top of 19 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 4: the first page, two tiny circles for eyes, an upturned 20 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 4: sliver of a moon for mouth. 21 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: Have a nice day. 22 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 3: Doctor James Fallon is a neuroscientist at the University of California. 23 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 4: So here you are, and here's the normal. And it 24 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 4: turns out yours is completely normal. 25 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 7: That's amazing. Yeah, with the sun, I don't know shine. 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 8: Oh I. 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: You told me once that being the daughter of a 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 3: serial killer isn't something you grow out of, it's something 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 3: you grow into. 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 9: Yes, you just can't run it. You can't even when 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 9: he dies. 33 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 5: One day, when he dies. 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 9: Those swimmories will still be there. I mean, I don't 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 9: think about the future with hit my. 36 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: Dad in it. 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: I live my life by my own desires and I 38 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 2: own attentions, and I could get everything I want, except 39 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: forgetting things. 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: As Arthur Golden writes and Memoirs of a Geisha. After all, 41 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 3: when a stone is dropped into a pond, the water 42 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 3: continues quivering even after the stone has sunk to the bottom. 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: I'm Lauren Brighte Pacheco, and this is happy face. While 44 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: having the brain scan last week removed certain doubts from Melissa, 45 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: the healing is still a process. Even simple things like 46 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 3: a happy memory of her dad and the smell of 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 3: house paint as he painted the walls of her childhood 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 3: home are tainted by his crimes. 49 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: I remember when we took possession of the house, my 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: dad painting the walls white, and it came to my mind. 51 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 9: Sorry, it came to my mind. This weekend. 52 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: I I bought a fixer upper in Ohio, and when 53 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 2: I entered the fixer upper, I thought, this needs gallery 54 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: white walls. 55 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 9: I just see it's had beautiful arches. 56 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: I saw white. The walls would need to be white, 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: So I started painting. 58 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 9: The walls white. 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: And for hours, I says, painting, I saw my dad 60 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: and the smell of the fresh paint and my dad's 61 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: care and painting the walls white in this. 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 9: Farmhouse is one of those good memories, you know, of 63 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 9: my dad taking care of a property. 64 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: And he's the one who taught me, or instilled in me, 65 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: this love for real estate and this love for fixing 66 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: up properties. And that's something that I've had to reconcile 67 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: because a lot of things that I love are rooted 68 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: back to my dad. 69 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 3: Now, every time Melissa looks at white paint, those good 70 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: memories are overridden by what she learned that Keith used 71 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: paint to cover over the splattered blood after killing Tanya Bennett. 72 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: And that's not the first thing that happened. But on 73 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: my birthday was just a couple weeks ago, and my 74 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: boyfriend bought me a road bike. And I grew up 75 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: with my dad cycling, and he bought me the cycling shoes, 76 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: and the first thing that went into my mind was 77 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: Tanya Bennett and my dad saying I would wear my 78 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: cycling shoes so when it leave the soul print and. 79 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 9: I it's it's so. 80 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 5: Hard because I love these things. 81 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: Everything. 82 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: I love. 83 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: It. 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 5: I've tried, I've tried a run. 85 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: I can't and I'll never I'll never put those shoes, 86 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: all those cycling shoes and not think of Tanya. 87 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 9: I'll never be able to. 88 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 8: I want to. 89 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: But Melissa, you didn't kill Tanya Bennett. 90 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: I know. 91 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: Maybe it's a question of going back to those memories 92 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: and just trying to take the good from them. You 93 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 3: cannot take responsibility for your father's actions. For Keith's family, 94 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: shaking off guilt isn't easy. Here's Melissa's mother Rose talking 95 00:05:59,560 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: about it. 96 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 10: Well, everybody assumes you are guilty by association just because 97 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 10: you knew him. Because I was his wife. 98 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: I knew everything that he did. I knew he murdered 99 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 3: those women. 100 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 7: I knew, and. 101 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 10: I had no clue he. 102 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 7: Had a second life. 103 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 3: Over the years, accusations have come in that Melissa wants 104 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 3: attention for her father's crimes. People attack her on social 105 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 3: media or flood the comment sections on websites. Even her 106 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: own father has accused her of trying to profit off 107 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 3: of his murders. In his letters to her. But the 108 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: truth is Melissa's whole career has been a way to 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: atone for her father's sins, and that's true of her 110 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: whole family. One of her siblings is a nurse, another 111 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: has enlisted to protect the country, her mother spends her 112 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 3: days trying to resettle families in desperate situations, and Melissa, 113 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: of course, is working to speak out for victims and 114 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: give them a voice. What's interesting is that as much 115 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 3: as the family has tried to distance themselves from Keith's 116 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: horrific crimes, Keith is also constantly reminding the public that 117 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: they are his own. It's important to him. No one 118 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: else takes credit for them. Here's reporter Phil Stafford talking 119 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: about it. 120 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: Have you written to my father since our conversation? 121 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 4: No, I haven't been in touch with him for years. 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: I've done a number of things since then. But you know, 123 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 4: to say the least, we're dealing with a split personality here, 124 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 4: someone driven by some pretty serious unconscious compulsions. So that's 125 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 4: one side of it, and the other side of it 126 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 4: was every once in a while, this monster from the 127 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 4: unconscious would break through. 128 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: At one point, Keith was allegedly offered the opportunity to 129 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: give false testimony against Phil in exchange for favorable treatment 130 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: in prison, and to his credit, driven by some strange 131 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: moral code, he refused. 132 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 4: But there's also the chance that someone who's as mentally 133 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 4: unusual as obviously he was might also have been interested 134 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 4: in just playing more games and keeping people in the air. 135 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 4: He did confess to murders that he didn't commit, so 136 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 4: he was playing fast and loose with the truth at 137 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 4: some point, trying to get more attention, which I think 138 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 4: is one of the deeper reasons behind some of these killings, 139 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 4: just getting attention, getting recognition as some sort of person 140 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 4: that he felt had been denied him all his life. 141 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: When you met Jasperson, you had read those letters. So 142 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 3: was there that moment of authenticity that you knew he 143 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 3: was the author? And what did that feel like? Because 144 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 3: I can imagine that those letters were terrifying to read. 145 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 4: I knew from my own research that he had to 146 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 4: be the guy. I mean, there were times when I 147 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: was talking with him, when he was talking to me 148 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 4: about what he had done, that I had those skin 149 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 4: crawling moments, that's for sure. When he talked about killing 150 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 4: one of the truck stop whores in the cab of 151 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 4: his truck and he watched it from twenty feet above. 152 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 4: That's when I realized that this is a very strange. 153 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 3: Person, and regardless of everything Melissa has undertaken and tried 154 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 3: to prove, that very strange person will always be her father. 155 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 2: Well, how I even started my whole beginning was when 156 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: my daughter asked me a question. She got off the 157 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: school bus. She was learning about genealogy in the family tree, 158 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 2: and they were being basic. Of course, the family tree 159 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: is going up to your grandparents. So she filled out 160 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: her dad's side, you know, samside, Nana, Papa, and then 161 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: on my side Grandma rose me. And then she realized 162 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: there's a miss grandfather here. She said, you know, mom, 163 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: everybody has a daddy. Where's your daddy? And I wasn't 164 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: expecting that she was six the kindergarten. It just took 165 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: me back. I thought, how am I going to answer 166 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 2: this for her? And so I said, yes, I have 167 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: a daddy lives in Salem. And I left it at that, 168 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: and I gave her the name to put, just the 169 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: first name to put in. 170 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 9: I didn't want the last name. 171 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 2: From there, I went to the libraries, I went everywhere, 172 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: just scouring for information about how do I reconcile this 173 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: for myself so that I can tell my child this 174 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: in a way that she can understand without terrifying her. 175 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: And I didn't want to be public because at this 176 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: point I had nobody knew I had a business, Nobody 177 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: knew who my father was. 178 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 9: We had bought our house, our first home. 179 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: My daughter was happy and well adjusted in kindergarten. None 180 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: of my friends knew, my church groups didn't know. But 181 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: I kept thinking about my daughter's question. 182 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: What do you want your children to take away from 183 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 3: your journey? 184 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 2: Finding out that I'm not a psychopath liberated me too 185 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: as a parent, because my son was scared, and I 186 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: think my son was asking a very complex question when 187 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: he asked, like, is it a choice or is it 188 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: something that you are? 189 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 11: He wants to know more about his grandfather, my dad, 190 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 11: and I had to keep telling him you're nothing like him, 191 00:11:37,120 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 11: You're nothing like him. 192 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: As both Leroy and Don Findley made a huge impact 193 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: on the Happy Face team, and he stayed in contact 194 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: with both Melissa and me. 195 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 2: Is it Don or is it Leroy? 196 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 6: Well, you know what, after talking to you, I started 197 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 6: telling people my real name. 198 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 9: Really, Yes, ma'am, why did you start doing that? 199 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 6: Someone pointed out to me that, well, if LeRoy's really healed, 200 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,479 Speaker 6: why don't you just start introducing people who don't. 201 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: Know you as who you are. 202 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 6: Because I'm back to where I was before it happened, 203 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 6: and I saw myself changing. 204 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: I felt it in my energy. 205 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 6: People who were They're like, something's different about you. 206 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: So this whole thing was like because of. 207 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 6: Meeting Melissa amazingly lifted off my shoulders, because she answered 208 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:04,119 Speaker 6: the questions that I needed answered. And God, the universe 209 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 6: has rewarded me in so many ways. He's like, I 210 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 6: put you through hell, you have come out smelling like carnations. 211 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 6: Now it's time for you to be rewarded. So I've 212 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 6: turned into a whole different person. But at the same time, 213 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 6: I'm still same spirit and soul. 214 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 3: So it sounds like you went back to your former name, 215 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 3: but you've gotten a new life, yes, ma'am. And it 216 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 3: would seem that Don had left a huge impression on 217 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: Melissa as well. 218 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 2: You were in my thoughts last night actually when I 219 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: went to this floating restaurant on the water and I thought, oh, 220 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: the last time I was here was a puffins with Don, 221 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: and I remembered that whole experience and how intense it 222 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: felt leading up to that moment. I was terrified, absolutely 223 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 2: terrified to meet it up with you because it I 224 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: didn't know. I didn't know what you would think of me, 225 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: And I've already dealt with so many people having preconceived 226 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: notions of me and criticizing me. And I'm not saying 227 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: this to feel sorry for myself, but I had enough 228 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 2: already on my plate. 229 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 5: I didn't need I know. 230 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: What you mean on some level, Don. I think Melissa's 231 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: biggest fear was that twenty years ago when she read 232 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: your words in the newspaper. Yeah, she knew that you 233 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: were speaking the truth. She knew that you saw through everything, 234 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: and the narrative that she'd been fed by her father 235 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: all those years was not the truth. So her fear 236 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 3: in facing you was that you would look in her 237 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 3: face and you would see the face of her father, 238 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: and that you would blame her for his horrible crimes. 239 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 6: And I fully understand that because people, like I said, 240 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 6: don't know how to take me. And everybody in society 241 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 6: always prejudges everybody and assumes that they know about everybody, 242 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 6: but they don't know about themselves, and now Melissa learned 243 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 6: that none of it's true. Everybody has assumptions, everybody's gonna 244 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 6: come up with their own ideas, but it's only us 245 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 6: as individuals that we can do for ourselves. I'm trying 246 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 6: to word this the right way, but we all know 247 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 6: I'm the Stone or Yogi so. 248 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: Perfect. 249 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: But if they understand it's cool, they don't. 250 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 6: That's their problem, Melissa, because they're not the ones having 251 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 6: to live in our body or walk our shoes. 252 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: As we set out to make this series, we wanted 253 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: to give Melissa the tools and opportunity to understand and 254 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 3: confront her dad, the man she hadn't seen in so 255 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: many years, but still had such control over her and 256 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 3: her life choices. What Melissa ultimately got, though, was actually 257 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: much better, a release from Keith's manipulation and the confidence 258 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: to create her own narrative. In the end, it was 259 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 3: Melissa's choice not to confront Keith. She knew she didn't 260 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 3: need to see him, or read his letters, or let 261 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 3: him invade her life anymore, and that realization set her 262 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 3: free on so many levels. And it was a direct 263 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: result of her meeting with Don. 264 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: I'm trying to find words of what that experience was. 265 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: I think that I have found that meeting to be 266 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: a sacred meeting, and I felt like it was a 267 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: crossroads moment in my life. 268 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 9: That was a gift. 269 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: I thought you would blame me and see my father 270 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: and me, and I said, I wanted to go to 271 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: this doctor to find out if I am biologically hardwired 272 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: to be like my dad, And you said, well, your 273 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: brain may be, but your heart isn't. 274 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 6: I said, you may have his blood, but you don't 275 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 6: have his heart, mind, or soul, because you wouldn't do 276 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 6: what you do for others. So when you told me 277 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 6: that you were going to go to the doctors and 278 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 6: get that checked out, I believe I told you that 279 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 6: you're not and I never got the answer to see 280 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 6: if I was correct or wrong. 281 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 9: Well, you were correct. 282 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: My brain is perfectly normal and not hardwired to be 283 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: a psychopath. And what gave me the courage to go 284 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: do that was actually your statement to me after that though. 285 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it is like history just erased. Like there 286 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 2: was this pressure that I always felt walking around this world, 287 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: feeling like I have to prove myself. 288 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 9: That's a lot of energy. 289 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 2: To take into every encounter and it's unconscious that this 290 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: point has been decades, so it's just well left this 291 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: void like this open space. And I felt it all sudden. 292 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 2: These wonderful things in the world just started to pour 293 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 2: into that space. And yes, yes, I didn't know I 294 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: was going to meet you this summer. I didn't know 295 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 2: that the universe had this in store for me, and 296 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: I didn't know that was worthy of this gift. 297 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to say no more. I am so happy, 298 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: I really am. 299 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 5: I'm not scared of my dad anymore. The Eliza has 300 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 5: told me. I believed them, and I allowed him to 301 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 5: shape me and put me in this place, this box. 302 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 5: And I was terrified of him because everybody believed his 303 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 5: narrative always, and so I couldn't outrun even his lies. 304 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 5: And now he could say whatever he wanted to say and. 305 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 9: I would be fine. 306 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 3: During that conversation, Melissa brought up the fact that my dad, 307 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: my father, had taken very seriously ill. She expressed her 308 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 3: sentiments and almost envy that he had the benefit of 309 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 3: being surrounded by his loving, proud family during this painful 310 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 3: time and the sharp contrast to her own reality. 311 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 2: You know, Lauren, sitting across from me, and her dad 312 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: right now is in the hospital. 313 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 9: Or in care, and. 314 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: Lauren and I have had quite an opposite of upbringing, 315 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: and the love that she has for her father and 316 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 2: the care that she has for her father and that 317 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: he has for her makes it so that she's right 318 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 2: now currently in the most intense grief and pain, and 319 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 2: that her father is surrounded by beautiful daughters, a beautiful 320 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 2: family that loves him, and my dad will never get 321 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: that because he didn't deserve that, because he didn't create 322 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 2: the life that her dad created. 323 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 9: And that's what I know. 324 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: You know what, I bet you, There's going to come 325 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: a day where my dad passes away and I won't 326 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 2: even know it, Like I won't even know my dad 327 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: died because all these years will have passed and I 328 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 2: didn't say a word to him, and he never said 329 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: a word to me. 330 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: To be honest, I initially cringed and immediately felt protective 331 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: of my privacy. Then my dad died the next day. 332 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: Now that I've had the time to reflect, I realize 333 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: Melissa was also grieving with me and for her father. 334 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: Keith didn't just murder eight women. He killed the man 335 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: Melissa thought she knew, and the father she dearly loved. 336 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 3: Melissa's dad died when she was fifteen, and she's still 337 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 3: grieving that loss. In that moment of mentioning my dad, 338 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 3: she clearly expressed empathy and remorse, confirming she's truly the 339 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 3: antithesis of a psychopath. But for Melissa's mom Rose, even 340 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: her life with Keith was filled with a sort of grief. 341 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 3: She struggled to articulate and understand. 342 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 10: You know, an intimate partner, you hold each other and 343 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 10: kindle each other. It was like, Okay, I'm gonna go 344 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 10: watch TV. 345 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: It was robotic. 346 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, or did you feel used? 347 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 6: No? 348 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 10: I just because I mean I never had men. I 349 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 10: don't know what like, I'm a hooyfriend. 350 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 7: Yeah, how men are? 351 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 9: I thought that was the norm. 352 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: You must have been so lonely. 353 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 10: I was extremely lonely. Matter of fact, I would go 354 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 10: to church and I knew my life was out of balance, 355 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 10: but I just couldn't figure out why it. 356 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 7: Was out of balance. 357 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 10: But then I used to have a neighbor when we 358 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 10: lived in Zilla, and there was a little old couple 359 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 10: and summertimes they would sit out in the patio and 360 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 10: play cards and they had their little lights on, you know, 361 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 10: and I'd sit there and I'd listen to their conversation 362 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 10: because they were so close, and I just thought, that's 363 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 10: what our relations should be like, that you enjoy each 364 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 10: other when you're even that old. And they'd laugh and 365 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 10: they would just crack up jokes between them, and I thought, 366 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 10: that's what it is, that's what I you know, that's 367 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 10: what it's supposed to be. 368 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 7: Like. 369 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 3: Melissa and Don were initially linked by Keith, but they're 370 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: both determined and to transcend his effects on their lives. 371 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 6: Our gift now is to pass on the words of 372 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 6: survival and that when you do make it through the 373 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 6: tough times that are put in front of you that 374 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 6: are out of your control, if you handle them in 375 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 6: the right way. 376 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: You will be rewarded. 377 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 6: Whether you believe in God, the universe, aliens, birds. 378 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: The gypsy and cats, you will be rewarded. 379 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 6: And we are proof of that because both of us 380 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 6: have lived in deep dark places. 381 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 3: I just you know, for me, it really is humbling 382 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 3: to watch. It is the triumph of good over evil. 383 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 12: Ultimately, I mean, I really hope we can help not 384 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 12: just each other grow further in our lives and stay connected, 385 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 12: but to help other people. 386 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 6: And I did tell you you will love and you 387 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 6: will care. So I said those words, but I didn't 388 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 6: believe them one hundred percent. I had to tell myself 389 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 6: that stuff for years to get through it, and when 390 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 6: I met Melissa. 391 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: All those words were proven right. Does any of that 392 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: make sense? 393 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 9: Absolutely? Absolutely? 394 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 3: The most telling change in Don was evident when confronted 395 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: with the idea of being face to face with Keith 396 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 3: present day. 397 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 6: If I met him in person, I would hope that 398 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 6: my power and my strength would hold me back and 399 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 6: I would say you lose me and your daughter win. 400 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 6: But in honesty action at this very moment, my anger 401 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 6: sight still would want to put him in some kind 402 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 6: of other pain, but not kill him. You know, I'm 403 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 6: not trying to be mean or angry, but my good 404 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 6: side would say we win, you lose. I think that 405 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 6: part is stronger than my angry part, so I wouldn't 406 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 6: do that, is what I feel in my heart. You know, 407 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 6: I'll be honest, I really haven't even thought about you know. 408 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 6: I used to think about the guy and so forth, 409 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 6: but he ain't even in the back of my mind anymore. 410 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 3: Like he's not living rent free in your brain anymore. 411 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 3: He's not controlling your thoughts, and that's all part of 412 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: I think your acceptance of yourself and going back to 413 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 3: Don and letting Leroy go. 414 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 6: Right, that's a great metaphor. I don't know how I 415 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 6: didn't come up with it, but yeah, I am able 416 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 6: to be more free than I've ever been. 417 00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 3: Now, what Melissa ultimately regained through the journey through Don, 418 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: through everything, was to regain control of her own story 419 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 3: without Keith. At points, you thought that you needed answers 420 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: from your dad. How do you feel now, Yeah? 421 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 2: I thought that I asked my dad really honest questions 422 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: and that he would give really honest answers. But through 423 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 2: this journey, I found that he doesn't tell honest. He 424 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 2: tells his own narrative, and that changes depending on what 425 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: he wants from you. And even if I was to 426 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 2: meet with him, he would spin me a tale. I 427 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: don't need any more of his narrative. 428 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 9: That's control. 429 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 3: So has this journey given you the narrative back? 430 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, me the freedom to tell my own story to myself, 431 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: like who I really am who I intuitively thought I was, Like, 432 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: this identity is really about our self beliefs, and we 433 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 2: operate our lives by the beliefs we carry about who 434 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: we are. And for so many years I operated my 435 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: life with the story I told myself, which is I'm 436 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 2: the daughter of a serial killer, Therefore I am bad. 437 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I am 438 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: part of that tree. And now that's no longer my story. 439 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 2: I'm Melissa More, a mother, a woman, and that's what 440 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 2: I am. There's no tagline like I don't. I don't 441 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 2: have to carry daughter of a serial killer like I don't. 442 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: It's just Melissa More. Just like you're Lauren. You don't 443 00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: have a banner behind you. You know, that's that's it's liberating, 444 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: you know, it's celebrating. 445 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 3: As sensational and at times surreal as Melissa's story has been, 446 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: there's something very universal about her journey. It's really about 447 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 3: the triumph of the human spirit over fear, shame, and 448 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: ultimately grief. In the end, it's about hope, the hope 449 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 3: that good can triumph over evil, or at least lesson 450 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 3: its stinging. 451 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 13: Oh hey, can it be another way to punish me? 452 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 13: A thousand lies, light years fly, dark years wander slowly 453 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 13: by my broken voice. 454 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 8: It calls to me, what notes I'll never meet? I'll 455 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 8: drift in words way out to see way out until 456 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 8: I'm his story. 457 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 9: Happy Face is a production of How Stuff Works. 458 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 3: Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright, Pacheco Mangesha Ticketdour 459 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 3: and Will Pearson. 460 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 9: Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by Claire Campbell, Page 461 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 9: Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer. Story editor is 462 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 9: Matt Riddle. Audio editing by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown. 463 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 9: Assistant editor is Taylor Chicogne. 464 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper, 465 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: and the Carlisle family