Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jason tim Podcast. Thank you guys so
Speaker 1: much for taking time out of your Thursday afternoon to
Speaker 1: come hang out with Tommy and I after an extremely
Speaker 1: stressful trade deadline where relatively mediocre relative to other stars
Speaker 1: type of player held the entire league hostage for nothing
Speaker 1: to happen, which was Kyle Lowry, which is what we're
Speaker 1: going to discuss here at the start. But Tommy, how
Speaker 1: you doing? Man? Are you feeling okay? I know you're
Speaker 1: a Warrior's fan, so you're probably a little annoyed, but
Speaker 1: how you doing overall annoyed? Um? I mean, I think
Speaker 1: the Warriors are making their direction clear. Basically, we're going
Speaker 1: all in on nineteen year olds. Um, which is I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a choice that we can say that much. It's
Speaker 1: a choice. But um, it's frustrating. Um. But yeah, except
Speaker 1: to talk about all the other stuff. Honestly, I discussed
Speaker 1: all the Warrior stuff at length on Twitter over the
Speaker 1: last couple of hours, so we're ready to talk about
Speaker 1: everything else. Yeah. So one of the recurring themes that's
Speaker 1: gonna get brought up here in the next you know,
Speaker 1: half hour hour is going to be this idea that
Speaker 1: every team in the country. UH seems to be intent
Speaker 1: on overvaluing draft picks and young players. And it sucks because,
Speaker 1: like you know, we'll just frame this through the Kyle
Speaker 1: Lowry situation. So there's intel out there that the Lakers
Speaker 1: could have had a much better chance of getting Kyle
Speaker 1: Lowry had they put talent Horton Tucker on the table,
Speaker 1: but there was no willingness to include him in the deal. Now,
Speaker 1: the Tyler Harrow one made more sense to me because
Speaker 1: Tyler Harrow at least had a dominant playoff game, you know,
Speaker 1: partially responsible for executing the Boston Celtics last year. He
Speaker 1: has I'm not gonna say his ceiling is necessarily higher
Speaker 1: than talent Horton Tuckers, but he certainly held a lot
Speaker 1: closer to it, and given the age of the players
Speaker 1: on the team, that makes a lot more sense. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense to me that the UH
Speaker 1: that teams are are so hesitant to commit to a timeline,
Speaker 1: and it really it really drives me nuts. And you know,
Speaker 1: what's talent Horton Tucker's ceiling? What is he? Maybe in
Speaker 1: Eric Gordon, maybe a little bit more athletic version of
Speaker 1: Eric Gordon how does how does that? Uh, and what's
Speaker 1: he at least four or five years away from being
Speaker 1: that and Lebron's turning thirty seven this year, Like, I
Speaker 1: just don't understand that that concept. And and you're you
Speaker 1: can probably speak to this as well with some of
Speaker 1: these Warriors young players. Yeah, it's it's interesting because what
Speaker 1: the Lakers are the Warriors are basically saying is we
Speaker 1: think these individual players th H T or wise when
Speaker 1: they're gonna be at the very least stars and maybe
Speaker 1: superstars because you already have the components to you already
Speaker 1: have the superstar player that can win you a title.
Speaker 1: Like for both the Lakers and the Warriors, who are
Speaker 1: in different positions right now. The Warriors are ninth in
Speaker 1: the West and have an average roster. The Lakers have
Speaker 1: one of the best rosters in the league. Um, they
Speaker 1: can win a title this year. But what they're basically
Speaker 1: saying by not being willing to include these young guys
Speaker 1: in trade packages for players that are already really good,
Speaker 1: is that we think these guys can potentially become superstars,
Speaker 1: which is I mean, I think both guys like Wiseman
Speaker 1: and t HD have the talent to do that. But
Speaker 1: as you're alluding to their so far from the ceiling,
Speaker 1: it's a pretty wild bet to make when you have
Speaker 1: superstars in there, either early thirties and Steps case, or
Speaker 1: their mid thirties in Lebrons case, where they don't have
Speaker 1: much time left to win championships. Right like that, that
Speaker 1: window is very, very limited, So not going all in
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me. And that's for any team
Speaker 1: in this situation. Right then, we can take the Nets,
Speaker 1: for example, dur Answer in his early thirties hard and
Speaker 1: the same thing. They're saying, let's go all in. Let's
Speaker 1: do whatever we can to improve this team right now
Speaker 1: to win a championship or multiple championships over the next
Speaker 1: three or four years, and they have continually done that
Speaker 1: all year. Yeah, it's it's a question of what your
Speaker 1: goal is. The are like so many teams are obsessed
Speaker 1: with being interesting, and then when they're interesting and they
Speaker 1: fall short, they're all super annoyed. At the end of
Speaker 1: the season. It's like it's like they only care about
Speaker 1: the ultimate goal when they've lost, and then before that
Speaker 1: they care about being interesting. And that's something that I
Speaker 1: struggle with, especially for bigger market teams, like if you're
Speaker 1: Golden State or you're the Lakers. You have to understand
Speaker 1: that you're gonna get probably the best midlevel exception guy
Speaker 1: most years. You're gonna get the best veteran minimum guys
Speaker 1: most years. You're you. You, you you have all these other
Speaker 1: things working in your favor. So it's being tied to
Speaker 1: a draft pick, which is arguably the least valuable thing
Speaker 1: to a big market team, to me, is completely nonsensical.
Speaker 1: And I just you know again, like the big thing
Speaker 1: too for these contenders is that the league is so
Speaker 1: much better now than it used to be. Like Warriors
Speaker 1: fans are so caught up in this idea that hey, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: wait until we get Clay Thompson back, we're gonna be good. Hey,
Speaker 1: I got news for you, Steph claim dray one is
Speaker 1: not good enough anymore. That's not not with not with
Speaker 1: clayoff in a c and Achilles. If you're telling me
Speaker 1: we're getting two thousand, nineteen Klay Thompson that I think
Speaker 1: there may be right there with the right moves on
Speaker 1: the margins, but that's not a garante. And I think
Speaker 1: the larger point is that injuries happen, Like as a
Speaker 1: Warriors man I've seen this over the past twenty months.
Speaker 1: Injuries happened. There's the three best players got significant injuries
Speaker 1: four times over a twenty month period. So when you
Speaker 1: have the chance to go all in and your players
Speaker 1: are healthy, like for the Lakers, for example, even though
Speaker 1: le Bron and a d are injured right now, they're
Speaker 1: gonna be fine come playoff time, you gotta go all in.
Speaker 1: You have to write because Brooklyn is putting together an
Speaker 1: incredible team. They still have some struggles on defense, but
Speaker 1: they're gonna be formidable in the playoffs. Denver got better.
Speaker 1: The Clippers are nothing to laugh at, even though I
Speaker 1: still don't love their team. If they are clicking on
Speaker 1: all cylinders, they can beat the Lakers and not moving
Speaker 1: for a guy like Lowry when he clearly was available
Speaker 1: over a guy like t HD, who's I think will
Speaker 1: be a good player, But will he ever even be
Speaker 1: as good as Kyle Lowry? Like at his peak? Will
Speaker 1: he be as good as Kyle Lowry? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you think he'll be the second best player on
Speaker 1: a championship team? That's the question that we're asking And
Speaker 1: if he if he's not that, then I'd rather have
Speaker 1: three years of Kyle Lowry as a second or third
Speaker 1: best player on a championship team, then whatever t H
Speaker 1: T is in ten years. And what you just said
Speaker 1: is that the key point. It's it's you know, Brooklyn
Speaker 1: is good enough that they can beat you, and and
Speaker 1: that is the key fact that keeps getting that keeps
Speaker 1: getting lost in all of this. Like I'm as big
Speaker 1: of an optimist as far as the Lakers go as
Speaker 1: you'll find out there. Like I last year, I did
Speaker 1: not think any of those teams could beat the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I didn't think any of them could. You know, I
Speaker 1: thought the Clippers were close, but I didn't think any
Speaker 1: team realistically had a chance to beat the Lakers. I
Speaker 1: was confident through and through the entire process this season
Speaker 1: there are at least there's at least one team out
Speaker 1: there that can beat you. Brooklyn can beat you, you know,
Speaker 1: like uh, with the way that Phoenix is constructed, they
Speaker 1: can beat you. With the way that the Clippers are constructed,
Speaker 1: with Sergebaka, with Cauai getting a little better and Paul
Speaker 1: George looking better than he did last year, they can
Speaker 1: beat you there. This is a year or even though
Speaker 1: the Lakers are theoretically better. The margin that exists between
Speaker 1: you and the other teams in the league is smaller,
Speaker 1: and to me, it's like the uh, you you cannot
Speaker 1: you don't want to go down holding chips and you
Speaker 1: know what, mark mark my words, man, Like, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a moment where it becomes abundantly clear that th
Speaker 1: HD can't play in the playoffs this year, and he'll
Speaker 1: have he might have a moment where he looks good,
Speaker 1: but in a late round, there's gonna be a moment
Speaker 1: where it looks like he's not ready. And it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be because it's his fault. It's gonna because he's
Speaker 1: twenty years old. And in that moment, I hope people
Speaker 1: understand that the like those little tiny details like improving
Speaker 1: the third best player on your team, even if it's
Speaker 1: just a marginal amount, like the gap between Lowry and
Speaker 1: in Shrewder is real. It's not a huge gap, but
Speaker 1: there's a gap there, and something like that could be
Speaker 1: the difference between you hoisting the trophy or going home
Speaker 1: in the Western Conference finals. Oh and guess what, Lebron
Speaker 1: turns thirty seven next year, and it's just gonna get
Speaker 1: harder and so I I just don't understand why why
Speaker 1: I did that obsession, and I'll never get it. But
Speaker 1: I think it's just I think it's just it's it's
Speaker 1: for whatever it's worth. It's something that exists all around
Speaker 1: the league. So it's not a problem unique to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I mean, Bob Buyers is having the same problem all
Speaker 1: the like pat Riley's having the same problem. This problem
Speaker 1: exists all over the league. I think what it speaks
Speaker 1: to mostly is once you have success in one way,
Speaker 1: it's hard to move off of that. You like, you
Speaker 1: just hone in on this one way of doing things.
Speaker 1: That's what's That's what the Warriors are going through, and
Speaker 1: that's what I think, to a certain extent, the Lakers
Speaker 1: are going through. They did improve their roster a little
Speaker 1: bit this offseason, but they're thinking, oh, we we have
Speaker 1: the same two guys that we want the title with
Speaker 1: last year. We're still good enough to do it this year.
Speaker 1: The league has shifted around you, Like Brooklyn didn't have
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant or James Harden last year. I mean, Katie
Speaker 1: was on the roster, but he was injured. He was
Speaker 1: never playing a game. Like the league has shifted Phoenix
Speaker 1: didn't have Chris Paul, Denver didn't have Aaron Gordon, who
Speaker 1: I don't obviously isn't in the class of any of
Speaker 1: those guys, but I think he changes the geometry for
Speaker 1: them a little bit. I think he gets you. And
Speaker 1: Yokis is way better, like the other guys are improving,
Speaker 1: and that's going to continue to happen. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of good young players in the league right now, Like
Speaker 1: in Beads, probably gonna be better next year. Don Chech
Speaker 1: is gonna be way better next year. All these young
Speaker 1: guys are gonna keep getting better, and eventually it's gonna
Speaker 1: shift from the old guard like Katie or Lebron or
Speaker 1: maybe Step. If the Warriors make some moves, one of
Speaker 1: those guys will win the championship in the next couple
Speaker 1: of years. I think at least one of them will,
Speaker 1: and then eventually one of them will win one and
Speaker 1: it will be the last championship that that group of
Speaker 1: three players wins. And if teams like Lakers and Warriors
Speaker 1: aren't willing to make the moves to go all in
Speaker 1: right now, they've already seen those last championships, it's over
Speaker 1: for them. It's over. They will not win another one.
Speaker 1: Lebron needs more help than he did at thirty two.
Speaker 1: He just does. You need a guy like Kyle Lowry
Speaker 1: who can handle some of that playmaking and just like
Speaker 1: take the load off of him because he's thirty six.
Speaker 1: He never used to get high ankle sprains. He's just older.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. Yeah, No, I I I
Speaker 1: disagree in the high ankelesprain thing because I think it
Speaker 1: was a contact injury. But I but to me, the
Speaker 1: better example that was the growing the growing injury last year.
Speaker 1: But however, your larger point I agree with. And you know,
Speaker 1: for like Rob Polinka has done a really good job
Speaker 1: since Magic has left. And I always have to be
Speaker 1: careful with this sort of thing, you know, when we're
Speaker 1: talking about trade discussions, because there's always what is reported
Speaker 1: and then there's the reality of what happens. And it's
Speaker 1: very possible that even th HT might not have gotten
Speaker 1: the deal done. So I don't want to be, you know,
Speaker 1: super matter of fact in the way trying to up
Speaker 1: the price for Lowry. It could have been that it
Speaker 1: could have been them feeding you know, Shellbirn or Wendy
Speaker 1: whatever and telling them this is on the table, but
Speaker 1: it really wasn't and Lowry there there was until that
Speaker 1: Lowry wanted to have some sort of input on where
Speaker 1: they were going. It's very possible that that that the
Speaker 1: l a thing was never real. However, in the hypothetical
Speaker 1: where this should have happened or could have happened with
Speaker 1: th HT in the trade, to me, that's a catastrophic mistake.
Speaker 1: And I the only I I thought about this so
Speaker 1: many times over the last couple of hours because I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something. And
Speaker 1: the only thing that if I had to be a
Speaker 1: devil's advocate for why the Lowry trade for th H
Speaker 1: T KCP and Dennis Shroeder wouldn't have made sense. The
Speaker 1: only thing I can think of his guard depth this
Speaker 1: idea that right now the Lakers have five guards the CRUSO,
Speaker 1: th H D KCP, West, Matthews, and Dennis Shrewder, and
Speaker 1: if you give up three of them for one, then now,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've got a guard corps that's
Speaker 1: only three deep. And now you're looking at playing in
Speaker 1: Alphonso McKinney, or you're trying to find a buyout guide
Speaker 1: and maybe you can get Awayne Ellington. I don't know,
Speaker 1: and so I do see I do see some validity
Speaker 1: to that. However, to me, the lineup flexibility, provided they
Speaker 1: stayed healthy and made it into deeper rounds of the playoffs,
Speaker 1: the lineup flexibility of having a Kyle Lowry as an
Speaker 1: upgrade over Dennis Shooter, to me was was worth it.
Speaker 1: But I just that that's the devil's advocate approach. But
Speaker 1: I still think that that it could potentially have been
Speaker 1: a big mistake, and there there will be a moment
Speaker 1: potentially if the Lakers lose this year, there will be
Speaker 1: a moment. Maybe it's against the Clippers, maybe it's against
Speaker 1: Brooklyn where it's gonna feel like there's a talent gap
Speaker 1: and and that is something that could have been remedied
Speaker 1: here and and that could be unfortunate. End of the day,
Speaker 1: top end talent is what matters in the playoffs. I'd
Speaker 1: rather be eight deep and have have my top three
Speaker 1: be amazing than be ten deep and have like a
Speaker 1: top two and then everybody else that's just kind of
Speaker 1: black at the end of the at the end of
Speaker 1: the roster. So it I mean, I can I don't
Speaker 1: understand why the Lakers didn't do it if th h
Speaker 1: T was the sticking point, and I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1: We talk some other trades here, Yeah, so okay, So
Speaker 1: it appears that Miami had a backup plan lined up
Speaker 1: for Victor Oladipo, which we won't get into it for
Speaker 1: the Lakers because we've talked enough Lakers. But that was
Speaker 1: another one the Lakers should have been in on, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, because Victor Oladipo is an upgrade over the
Speaker 1: current guard staff that the Lakers have right now. However,
Speaker 1: that said Miami gets Victor Oladipo, they give up Avery
Speaker 1: Bradley and uh Kelly owner Kelly Olynnock and I think
Speaker 1: his second round pick. Yeah, so effectively nothing a guy
Speaker 1: who Avery Bradley barely played for them at all, and
Speaker 1: you're giving up a big but they're expecting to get
Speaker 1: one in the buyout market. They already got the Eliza,
Speaker 1: so he can fill that Kelly Olynok role at a
Speaker 1: much smaller price. He costs like five bullion bucks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and push comes to shove, he probably won't even play.
Speaker 1: They'll probably play Little Marcus and Bam and Precious. But anyway,
Speaker 1: how do you feel surface level about Oladipo, his fit
Speaker 1: with Miami, so on and so forth. Um, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure because I don't know exactly what Oladipo has left.
Speaker 1: I wanted the Warriors to take a chance on him
Speaker 1: just because their roster is terrible. But if he's eighty,
Speaker 1: or if he's the guy that we saw in Indie,
Speaker 1: you know, three or four years a go that took
Speaker 1: Lebron's Calves to a seven game series, I really like
Speaker 1: to pick up. You know, they I think they were
Speaker 1: struggling with lead a ball handling a little bit. Number one,
Speaker 1: you can't count on drawing. Should be healthy anymore. He's
Speaker 1: really good when he's healthy still, but he was injured
Speaker 1: in the playoffs last year. He was injured in the finals.
Speaker 1: They that's part of the reason why it was so
Speaker 1: tough for Miami when the Lakers really locked in defensively
Speaker 1: to generate offense, because they didn't have a second ball
Speaker 1: handler besides Jimmy. Basically they're relying on Tyler Hero. Hero
Speaker 1: has has slumped this year. He's looked bad. Um. I
Speaker 1: think this will help put him more into a role
Speaker 1: that that suits what his game is currently. I'm talking
Speaker 1: about Hero Um. If Olidibo can still be kind of
Speaker 1: that lead slash secondary ball handler who's generating a ton
Speaker 1: of paid touches and a ton of rim looks for
Speaker 1: your offense. Um, it will help out Duncan Robinson. And
Speaker 1: then if he still has that same juice, he's also
Speaker 1: a really good defensive player. So it's all depending on
Speaker 1: how healthy he is. And I've watched I started watching,
Speaker 1: you know, some Rockets games just to kind of get
Speaker 1: a feel for what he looks like some of the
Speaker 1: pop is still there, and then sometimes it looks like
Speaker 1: he doesn't have any thing left, And I'm curious to
Speaker 1: see if that's more injury related or if that's just
Speaker 1: I'm really bored. I'm in a terrible situation, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to try that hard because I don't want
Speaker 1: to get injured again. So my theory on the Victor
Speaker 1: Oladipo thing is that he has had some decline from
Speaker 1: the injury and it's caused some issue more so just
Speaker 1: with the way the food chain kind of works out
Speaker 1: with these rosters that he's been on. So for instance,
Speaker 1: he in Indiana, he gets hurt and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: Malcolm Brogden is really good and and and Sa Bonus
Speaker 1: is really good, and so it starts to creep into
Speaker 1: your head a little bit to where like when you're
Speaker 1: shooting that pull up three off the pick and roll,
Speaker 1: you're like, am I actually the guy who should be
Speaker 1: taking this shot? Because you know so and so has
Speaker 1: been you know, Brogden has been incredible. You don't have
Speaker 1: that light anymore, you know, exactly right, That's exactly what
Speaker 1: I mean. And and then and then you go to
Speaker 1: Houston and you're on a terrible team and John wall
Speaker 1: is a black hole in a lot of cases. So
Speaker 1: I agree with you in the sense that, uh, that
Speaker 1: there are other factors that play with the way his
Speaker 1: numbers have looked. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: none of this really matters, uh, when you look at
Speaker 1: the fact that you're not asking him to be lead
Speaker 1: guard anymore. And Victor Oladipo makes no sense for me
Speaker 1: as a lead guard. I mean, if you look at
Speaker 1: the theory that came out that like that the New
Speaker 1: York Knicks might have been interested in him at one
Speaker 1: point in time, I'm sitting there looking at that and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, I don't want Victor Oladipo to
Speaker 1: be the best player on my team. However, in in
Speaker 1: food chain, like he'll experience in Miami or he would
Speaker 1: have experienced in l A. It's this idea that what
Speaker 1: you're being asked to do changes. That's why Dennis Shrewder
Speaker 1: looks great as the third best player in the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Why he looks, you know, like he isn't worth million
Speaker 1: dollars anymore now that he's playing without Lebron and na d.
Speaker 1: The bottom line is is that he's going to kind
Speaker 1: of slot in into that like second secondary initiator, but
Speaker 1: like third most important player on that Miami Heat team
Speaker 1: where uh Jimmy Butler is running most of their actions.
Speaker 1: He can share that secondary ball handling duty with with
Speaker 1: Dragic and he's got this awesome pick and roll weapon
Speaker 1: with bam at a bio and all he doesn't handling,
Speaker 1: he does some d h O stuff and he'll play
Speaker 1: some point center like they have a lot of ball
Speaker 1: handlers now with exactly to to me, it makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense for them. And you know, I talked
Speaker 1: about this a lot in the podcast that I did yesterday,
Speaker 1: But every team freaks out about the idea of like
Speaker 1: over paying a star. This idea that like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you've gotta pay Victor Oladipo this summer and he's gonna
Speaker 1: want twenty million dollars, or you're gonna have to pay
Speaker 1: Dinner Shooter this summer. He's gonna want twenty million dollars.
Speaker 1: But this is a simple fact that everything needs to
Speaker 1: become aware of. A player's market value is not what
Speaker 1: a good team is willing to pay for him. It's
Speaker 1: what a bad team is willing to pay for him.
Speaker 1: And guess what. You either pay market value for a player,
Speaker 1: or you get extremely lucky that a player wants to
Speaker 1: ring chase, which is rare these days, or the guy's
Speaker 1: gonna leave, You're gonna You're gonna lose him. So you
Speaker 1: have the option to either overpay talent or to become
Speaker 1: a worst basketball team. That's the same predicament that every
Speaker 1: single contending team is in. You're either gonna pay Dennis
Speaker 1: Shooter four years eighty million or four years eighty five
Speaker 1: million this year, or his Shooter is gonna walk and
Speaker 1: the Lakers are gonna be worse. It's the same problem
Speaker 1: that the Calves had when they had to resign J. R.
Speaker 1: Smith and Tristan Thompson. It's the same problem the Lakers
Speaker 1: had this year when they had to repay contagious call
Speaker 1: well Pope. Every single contending team they win a title
Speaker 1: and it's like, crap, We've gotta pay all these guys.
Speaker 1: The Raptors just had to pay a lot for Fred
Speaker 1: van Fleet and Fred VanVleet is really good, but it's
Speaker 1: it's hard. It hampers your roster. But you have to
Speaker 1: think about it. Fred Vanvleet's value, Dennis Shooter's value, Victor
Speaker 1: Oladipo's value is not what a contending team is willing
Speaker 1: to pay. It's what a bad team is willing to pay.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the market. And you need to pay
Speaker 1: the price to be good or you penny pinch and
Speaker 1: then you get stuck in mediocrity. Yeah. No, that's a
Speaker 1: great point. That's a really good point in terms of
Speaker 1: how the market gets set um. Yeah. And I just think,
Speaker 1: like I said, I think if Oladipo is close to
Speaker 1: the guy that we saw near his peak, I think
Speaker 1: it's an awesome move. I he gives them a guy
Speaker 1: who can guard a Kairie type like guard those lead
Speaker 1: ball handlers and bother them and you know, Kyrie's gonna
Speaker 1: score no matter what, but at least you can bother
Speaker 1: him now and then they they do already have the
Speaker 1: front line guy is to give you know, Brooklyn, Harden
Speaker 1: and kd in theories some issues, right, So, but they're
Speaker 1: gonna be They are a much tougher out than they
Speaker 1: were an hour ago in the playoffs in my estimation.
Speaker 1: They just they have a lot more depth in terms
Speaker 1: of ball handling, and they got better defensively to like
Speaker 1: Oladipa when he's locked in is an awesome all NBA
Speaker 1: level defender. So yeah, it's it's an absolute improvement on
Speaker 1: their roster. I don't think they're necessarily gonna win the
Speaker 1: East again, um because the conferences obviously changed and Brooklyn
Speaker 1: looks awesome, Milwaukee's looked better as of late. Um Philly
Speaker 1: when they're healthy is really good. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if it changes the It definitely doesn't shift the power
Speaker 1: in the East, but it makes Miami a lot more
Speaker 1: serious than they were. They also keep Tyler Hare or
Speaker 1: excuse me, Duncan Robinson, which was the guy that they
Speaker 1: had included in the uh the Kyle Lowry trade, So
Speaker 1: they're undoubtedly better, and and I kudos to the teams
Speaker 1: that are out there trying to get better because it
Speaker 1: just it drives it drives me nuts when when teams
Speaker 1: are stuck in no man's land, which you know, maybe
Speaker 1: Katie is injuredul playoffs, maybe and be gets hurt in
Speaker 1: the playoffs, like you just never know. You never know,
Speaker 1: and that's why you gotta go all in when you can. Exactly.
Speaker 1: That's the that's the key, is like you're not you.
Speaker 1: Every single inch that you gain in this sort of
Speaker 1: environment is an inch that might put you over the
Speaker 1: top of things break a certain way, and and that's
Speaker 1: that's the key. Like Miami, you could say whatever you
Speaker 1: want about them over paying Jimmy Butler or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it's like they were a d potentially being a little
Speaker 1: bit more banged up last year away from winning the title.
Speaker 1: That's literally how close they were. So it's it's something
Speaker 1: to keep in mind. Um So this brings us to
Speaker 1: another example of a team pushing chips in the middle.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of talk from Denver that this
Speaker 1: idea that uh they were. The reason why they didn't
Speaker 1: pay uh Jeremy Grant was the fact that they were
Speaker 1: concerned that they were gonna have to pay, you know,
Speaker 1: Michael Porter Jr. To a long term deal. They just
Speaker 1: signed Jamal Murray. Nicola Yokich is one of the best
Speaker 1: five players in the league. Who's gonna be a super
Speaker 1: Max guy one day. There was this idea that you
Speaker 1: have too much money tied up elsewhere, so there's no
Speaker 1: point in going after Eric Aaron Gordon because that would
Speaker 1: just give you another guy you have to pay. That
Speaker 1: was the concern coming into the trade line trade deadline,
Speaker 1: but they did it. They did it because they understand
Speaker 1: all of those things that we were just talking about.
Speaker 1: And I think we both agree that Aaron Gordon makes
Speaker 1: them way better. But why don't you start by just
Speaker 1: telling us how you see Aaron Gordon improving them? Well,
Speaker 1: I think number one, it's something that kind of gets
Speaker 1: missed with him. He's not one of those super disruptive
Speaker 1: defenders that's gonna get a lot of blocks and steels.
Speaker 1: Just kind of weird considering his athleticism. But he's really
Speaker 1: good at point of attack, Like he can guard the
Speaker 1: big wings, he can guard you know, reasonably well. The
Speaker 1: lebron Kawai happen, Durant tight Um, that are that you're
Speaker 1: gonna see in the biggest playoff series that you come into. Like,
Speaker 1: he can guard those guys, and he's not going to
Speaker 1: be the best at it. Um, Like he struggled against
Speaker 1: Kauai when he was when I was in Toronto a
Speaker 1: couple of years, but that was because Gordon was doing
Speaker 1: way too much playmaking. He's doing way too much ball
Speaker 1: handling in Denver, He's not gonna have to do that.
Speaker 1: They have Yokis, who's obviously who might be the best
Speaker 1: offensive player in the league. Like he's right there. Marie
Speaker 1: Get does a ton of ball handling and he's looked
Speaker 1: a lot better the last month or show of basketball.
Speaker 1: So Gordon can just finish or concentrate what he's good at.
Speaker 1: He's been shooting spot up threes well this year. He's
Speaker 1: shooting from three, low volume, but he's still making him
Speaker 1: He's an incredible cutter. He's gonna get three, four or
Speaker 1: five dunks a game just cutting off of yokich Is,
Speaker 1: high post actions, driple handoffs to elbow stuff. Um. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just overall, I think it's a really good fit.
Speaker 1: I think he's like, honestly, just a better version of
Speaker 1: Jeremy Grant, like in terms of the way he'll fit there,
Speaker 1: Grants still just was a little bit clunky in some ways,
Speaker 1: even though he was good for them in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: because not a great handler, you can't really rely on
Speaker 1: his shot, and he wasn't a great finisher either. Gordon's
Speaker 1: a really good finisher around the rim, Like, that's an
Speaker 1: element that he adds that I think people are gonna
Speaker 1: be surprised by is how good he is around the room,
Speaker 1: because he's he's pretty pretty damn good I finishing around
Speaker 1: the Rodman playing off Yokich and Mory like he's gonna
Speaker 1: get so many easy looks. It's ridiculous, for sure. I
Speaker 1: think the one thing that I think it's worth pointing
Speaker 1: out is that Jeremy Grant does appear to be very
Speaker 1: good now. But I think I think the thing I
Speaker 1: think with what what happened with Jeremy Grant is he
Speaker 1: signed a deal to become a primary ball ball handler
Speaker 1: in Detroit and UH, and then he went to work. UH.
Speaker 1: He went to work that entire offseason, that short offseason,
Speaker 1: preparing himself for what was going to be a much
Speaker 1: different role than what he had in Denver. And to
Speaker 1: his credit, I think he got better, but I would
Speaker 1: say that I think Aaron Gordon is better than the
Speaker 1: version of Jeremy Grant that existed in Denver in that
Speaker 1: smaller role. Um One of the things that I thought
Speaker 1: was really interesting, particularly in the Lakers series, is Denver
Speaker 1: asked to Jeremy Grant to be a little bit more
Speaker 1: aggressive in that series, and Jeremy Grant went after Lebron
Speaker 1: a few times at the end of shot clock situations
Speaker 1: mainly and had a lot of pretty good scoring opportunities.
Speaker 1: You could see why Aaron Gordon, uh it slots right
Speaker 1: into that same role. And we had concerned coming into
Speaker 1: the season that Denver had missed an opportunity to really
Speaker 1: capitalize on a window because they let Jeremy Grant and
Speaker 1: Tory Craig go and if if it seemed like they
Speaker 1: got worse. And what so interesting about the Aaron Gordon
Speaker 1: addition is it kind of undoes that damage while at
Speaker 1: the same time capitalizing in the fact that everyone else
Speaker 1: is better, Like Michael Porter Jr. Better than he was
Speaker 1: last year, Nikola Vouseovitch better than he was last year,
Speaker 1: excuse me, Nikola Yokich better than he was last year.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you some ship. Now you uh said
Speaker 1: that Jamal Murray's Bubble performance was fake. I think he
Speaker 1: is at least starting to show in the last month
Speaker 1: that maybe it wasn't. More like he's actually shot a
Speaker 1: little bit better and in the last month or two
Speaker 1: than than he did even in the Bubble from every
Speaker 1: single distance. And it appears to be what might be
Speaker 1: a top fifteen ish type of player in the n
Speaker 1: b A if he can be consistent like this. Uh.
Speaker 1: He also has kind of a history of starting season slow,
Speaker 1: for whatever that's worth. But the point being is Denver's better,
Speaker 1: And now you know JaVale McGee is more or less
Speaker 1: what Mason plumbly did for you last year. Maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit worse, but who cares. It's a very low
Speaker 1: value position for them, And and overall you just took
Speaker 1: what was a vastly improved roster for the guys that
Speaker 1: stayed but that had lost to key Peace, and you
Speaker 1: just replaced that key Peace was something that might actually
Speaker 1: be better. And to me, that makes them super dangerous.
Speaker 1: And if I'm the Clippers in particular, because of that
Speaker 1: bad matchup with their inability to guard Yokich, I'd be
Speaker 1: freaking out because that's gonna be just an extremely difficult
Speaker 1: team to beat now. And this goes back to what
Speaker 1: we were talking about the beginning, like there are just
Speaker 1: so many incredibly good teams this year, and at Denver
Speaker 1: there was a slip and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: there's not And now it looks like they're every bit
Speaker 1: as good as anybody else. And by the way, what
Speaker 1: a great opportunity for Nicola Yokis to make a move
Speaker 1: on the MVP award. Absolutely, And I mean I think
Speaker 1: with all their troubles earlier in the season, they're still
Speaker 1: their fifth in the standings right now, So I mean,
Speaker 1: they had all those troubles, they started terribly and Yokich
Speaker 1: has been so amazing that he's lifted them to a
Speaker 1: t eighteen record. Now the roster has improved, um, and
Speaker 1: I think they're still going to have some struggles on
Speaker 1: the wing defensively, like they're gonna be relying on Gore
Speaker 1: to do a lot on that end. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: think that should get lost because they did move Gary
Speaker 1: Harrison this deal, so all their problems aren't fixed by
Speaker 1: any means, But I think they are one step closer
Speaker 1: with as young as their best players are in Yo kitchen,
Speaker 1: Murray to like truly becoming a contender within the next
Speaker 1: two to three years, which is all you're you're trying
Speaker 1: to do. With as young as those guys are, you know,
Speaker 1: they're in their early early to mid twenties. You're not
Speaker 1: necessarily trying to win a championship right now, because guys
Speaker 1: in their early twenties basically don't win championships if they're
Speaker 1: the best players on your team. But they're moving towards that,
Speaker 1: and Gordon fits the timeline, so they Denver was smart
Speaker 1: enough to say, hey, we might have messed up the
Speaker 1: Jeremy Grant thing, let's rectify it as soon as possible,
Speaker 1: and that Aaron Gordon trade was a great way to
Speaker 1: do it. And there there for the record, I I
Speaker 1: do think they can win the title this year, So
Speaker 1: that I would disagree with you there in the sense that,
Speaker 1: like I I understand what you're saying in terms of
Speaker 1: the goal in the timeline, but like if you were to,
Speaker 1: like coming into the season, if you were to order
Speaker 1: all the contenders, you would put the Lakers on their
Speaker 1: own tier number one, and then you would add this
Speaker 1: second tier that would have been like Philly in Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: and you might have had the Clippers on there, you
Speaker 1: might add a handful of other teams, even Denver. But
Speaker 1: then once the season started playing, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: that shifted. All of a sudden, Brooklyn kind of went
Speaker 1: up to the same tier as the Lakers, and then
Speaker 1: Phoenix and Utah jumped into that second tier and Denver
Speaker 1: like fell out of that second tier and appeared to
Speaker 1: be like a third tier contender. This very firmly puts
Speaker 1: them back on that second tier of contenders, which is
Speaker 1: quite frankly, all you're looking at there is Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: being out potentially or which he's literally hasn't been able
Speaker 1: to stay on the basketball court for the last two years,
Speaker 1: and then Anthony Davis and Lebron who both have uh
Speaker 1: Anthony Anthony Davis has an achilles issue which is about
Speaker 1: as scary as it gets, and Lebron has suffered a
Speaker 1: contact injury, which is something he hasn't suffered in his
Speaker 1: career and his actual like physical trauma on ligaments and
Speaker 1: can actually be a problem long term. So it's it's
Speaker 1: it's absolutely and especially the reverse sprain that high ankle sprain,
Speaker 1: and so that that uh, being in that second tier
Speaker 1: of contenders is where you want to be in my opinion,
Speaker 1: because if if, rather than the third, because that's where
Speaker 1: like a couple of things break your way, suddenly you're
Speaker 1: holding the trophy. Yeah, and Sham just reported that it's
Speaker 1: at least four more weeks for Lebron. Basically, it's he
Speaker 1: just reported four to six weeks from the time of
Speaker 1: the injury. So I'm assuming basically at least four more
Speaker 1: weeks of Lebron's out and if he's five more at
Speaker 1: three to five yeah, yeah, but I would assume it's
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of that timeline that would just
Speaker 1: be my guests. Maybe not. But so he's not back
Speaker 1: till mid April, and now they only have maybe a
Speaker 1: month of games left for him to kind of get
Speaker 1: back into shape. Same with a d if he even
Speaker 1: comes back during the regular season. Yeah, things are just
Speaker 1: a lot more dicey, and Denver is now in a
Speaker 1: position to where they can capitalize much like a two
Speaker 1: fifteen more situation where During goes down in the West
Speaker 1: and then they get some injury. Look at the East
Speaker 1: two with the Caps, right now you're in a position
Speaker 1: to where you're a little bit younger in a title.
Speaker 1: Maybe your core is, but injuries broke the right way
Speaker 1: and now you can win one. I think it's worth mentioning,
Speaker 1: like uh, with the high ankle sprain thing. It reminds
Speaker 1: me of what happened with Clay Thompson in the two
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen finals, where it's a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a pain tolerance issue than like a re injury issue,
Speaker 1: because like the type of movement that requires that sort
Speaker 1: of re injury is extremely rare in basketball. That's why
Speaker 1: the high ankle sprain is rare in basketball, Whereas like
Speaker 1: a traditional ankle sprain, there's weakness moving laterally and it
Speaker 1: can re injure extremely easily. So I think the big,
Speaker 1: one of the big determining factors for him coming back
Speaker 1: is just gonna be pain tolerance, and that I think
Speaker 1: will in a large part come down to how the
Speaker 1: stainings shake out. Like if the bottom really falls out
Speaker 1: of this thing and it looks really bad, I could
Speaker 1: see him potentially trying to force his way back earlier,
Speaker 1: which again was another reason why I thought it made
Speaker 1: so much sense to try to get Lowry but I digree. So, uh,
Speaker 1: let's talk about George Hill to Philly. So obviously it
Speaker 1: appears appears what happened here is uh. There was a
Speaker 1: question as to whether or not h Philly was willing
Speaker 1: to really get into this bidding war with the Lakers
Speaker 1: and the Raptors. And my guess is that Darryl Moray
Speaker 1: did a much better job of picking up on what
Speaker 1: Massi Eugerry's thought process was during this time, and he
Speaker 1: got a better read on the situation and got out
Speaker 1: while he getting was good credit to him, because the
Speaker 1: Lakers and he kind of got dragged along and it
Speaker 1: appeared clear that they did not read Massi Eugerry very well.
Speaker 1: But I actually like George Hill to Philly, So I'll
Speaker 1: go first on this one. The thing with George Hill,
Speaker 1: you know, my personal experience with him as someone rooting
Speaker 1: for him was when he was with the Calves, and uh,
Speaker 1: the thing was when he was there, he had he
Speaker 1: had back spasms and was in and out of the lineup.
Speaker 1: He actually missed playoff games, uh, and and was largely
Speaker 1: a shell of himself when he was there. That said,
Speaker 1: the because he had some success in Milwaukee is just
Speaker 1: a really He does a lot of things really well,
Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a second, But the truth
Speaker 1: of the matter is health is a legitimate problem with it.
Speaker 1: He's more or less than banged up NonStop since he
Speaker 1: left Indiana. That's just kind of the m O with
Speaker 1: George Hill, which is crazy because he's such a chiseled
Speaker 1: like freak natural athlete. But what George Hill does amazingly
Speaker 1: well is he's an incredible spot up shooter. If he's
Speaker 1: wide open, he's as good at knocking down wide up
Speaker 1: and shots as anybody in the league. And then two
Speaker 1: he is he's capable of making really basic plays as
Speaker 1: a point guard out of pick and roll uh and
Speaker 1: out of close up, close out opportunities. He's not a
Speaker 1: guy that's going to consistently dissect you and hurt you
Speaker 1: and and and do things like really high level things
Speaker 1: that you would want from a point guard. But he
Speaker 1: can run basic actions, which makes him great for second units.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting wrinkle to run have him run actions
Speaker 1: with Joel Embiad while Ben Simmons is off the floor.
Speaker 1: Things along those lines. He's a definitive upgrade over the
Speaker 1: backcourt that was playing for Philly with guys like Tyrese Maxie.
Speaker 1: It's in Shake Milton. So it's a definitive upgrade. And
Speaker 1: it's a classic example of a team that's like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're really good. We might win this thing, but let's
Speaker 1: get better. And I have respect for them in that regard. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I agree with everything you said. I just I don't
Speaker 1: know how much he'll moves the needle at this point
Speaker 1: in his career. Like he's a really nice player. He has,
Speaker 1: he's had a great career, but he'll be thirty five
Speaker 1: at the time the playoffs roll around. He is an
Speaker 1: amazing spot up shooter, but his it seems like it
Speaker 1: keeps getting harder for him to get those shots off
Speaker 1: in spot up situation, Like he's just getting older. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just harder to get looks off when you get older.
Speaker 1: Um So, I mean, I think he's a nice player.
Speaker 1: He's he obviously is better at this point than Tyrese Maxie,
Speaker 1: who I really like in Shake Melton as well. Um So,
Speaker 1: he's gonna help them just in terms of like bolstering
Speaker 1: the rotation a little bit, and you know, some injury
Speaker 1: prevention stuff. Seth Carey has been injured a ton this year, UM,
Speaker 1: so that it gives them some insurance UM in that part.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if he plays over any of
Speaker 1: their top five guys right now in in down the
Speaker 1: stretch UM, and then give up much for him obviously,
Speaker 1: So it's a good move. I don't hate it, but
Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't think it moves the needle
Speaker 1: that much. Like, is it really helping you eat Brooklyn?
Speaker 1: Isn't really helping you be even Milwaukee? Maybe? Is it?
Speaker 1: Is it really helping you beat Um? The new Heat team?
Speaker 1: It's all a depots, super healthy and ninety percent of
Speaker 1: what he once was. And I don't think it is.
Speaker 1: It's still it's still gonna require and B to be
Speaker 1: better than he's ever been. And it's going to require
Speaker 1: um an incredible playoffs from Simmons who's been very, very
Speaker 1: up and down in the playoffs at this point of
Speaker 1: his career. Who did they give up for George Hild
Speaker 1: Do you remember off the top of your heads? No,
Speaker 1: I'll pull it up, UM, But yeah, I just I
Speaker 1: like I said, he's a fine player. I I really
Speaker 1: do like him. I would have liked for the Warriors
Speaker 1: to get up because it would be a rotational upgrade.
Speaker 1: But I don't. I just don't think he's swinging a
Speaker 1: championship for anybody, you know, Like, even if if the
Speaker 1: Lakers were got him, I don't think it swings anything
Speaker 1: in their favor or not in their favor. He's just
Speaker 1: not on that level anymore. I I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think they gave up Tony Bradley, Terrice Terrence Ferguson
Speaker 1: in two first round picks, so two guys they basically
Speaker 1: weren't playing. Uh So it isn't it is an upgrade.
Speaker 1: It's a marginal upgrade on the on the fringe, didn't
Speaker 1: cost him anything. To me, that was a kind of
Speaker 1: a no brainer move for them. It was a move
Speaker 1: that wouldn't have made sense for a team like the
Speaker 1: Lakers because of the salaries that they've had to have
Speaker 1: included to match and and they the thing is is
Speaker 1: like it's all about a need. Like the reason why
Speaker 1: I like Skyle Lowry for the Lakers is, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: what Dennis Shooter does to the Lakers is so important.
Speaker 1: We saw that when a d was out and then
Speaker 1: Dennis Shrewter went down, and then the Lakers couldn't win
Speaker 1: because they had nobody that can dribble with their head
Speaker 1: up and uh. And the truth is is that adding
Speaker 1: a guy like George Hill is only a marginal to
Speaker 1: below average playmaker, isn't as big of a deal in
Speaker 1: that specific role to the Lakers that he would be
Speaker 1: for a different team. And you know, they're mainly looking
Speaker 1: for a guy that can be almost like a defensive
Speaker 1: lead guard that can do some little ball handling, but
Speaker 1: for the most part as an off ball player like
Speaker 1: he was in Milwaukee. And and uh and and so
Speaker 1: I think it makes a lot more more sense for Philly.
Speaker 1: And they still they still strike me as the only
Speaker 1: team out East that is capable of beating Brooklyn because
Speaker 1: of how much pressure they can put on the rim.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, And I think Brooklyn is probably
Speaker 1: gonna bolster their front court on the buyout market. I
Speaker 1: would assume they're going to go after either Drummond or
Speaker 1: all Dridge, even though it sounds like all Dred going
Speaker 1: to Miami. Um. But yeah, I mean, I still have
Speaker 1: Silly winning the East tentatively. But I don't think the
Speaker 1: Hill move shifts anything. Is my point, Like, if people
Speaker 1: thought that, you know, they were going to be Brookelyn.
Speaker 1: I don't think people think that they're gonna beat Brooklyn
Speaker 1: now because they got George Hill. It's just it's not
Speaker 1: a needle moving thing. It just it helps him, but
Speaker 1: it's not this incredible move. So Adrian or Znowski just
Speaker 1: treated and tweeted. In making trade offers for Kyle Lowry,
Speaker 1: teams had to take into consideration whether he would turn
Speaker 1: out to be a rental for the season or if
Speaker 1: they would be able to meet his contract expectations to
Speaker 1: stay in free agency. That impacted how far some teams
Speaker 1: were willing to go on him. I suppose we can
Speaker 1: try to parlay that and to cover for the Lakers
Speaker 1: not putting in th h D because there might have
Speaker 1: been some intel that he wanted to go to Miami.
Speaker 1: Everything was saying that he was gonna end up in
Speaker 1: Miami as a free agent, and then he Sham's report
Speaker 1: it earlier today that he wanted to be in Miami.
Speaker 1: Uh if if he had the choice between the toy
Speaker 1: between the trade offers, so that kind of at some clarification. Uh.
Speaker 1: But just like with the Kahila Leonard situation, when the
Speaker 1: Raptors trade form, I don't think you can necessarily weigh
Speaker 1: a player's future for what the moment might bring. And
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a single Raptors fan in America
Speaker 1: or Canada who would who would who would turn down
Speaker 1: that business arrangement that they had with Kauai. Yeah, definitely not.
Speaker 1: Um Alright, so let's talk. We're gonna talk one last
Speaker 1: trade and then we're gonna talk about one last non
Speaker 1: trade and then we'll get you guys out of here.
Speaker 1: Um So, nick voussovitch to Chicago. What were your initial impressions?
Speaker 1: I think, I mean for Wendell Carter Jr. I think,
Speaker 1: and it was Otto porter Wendell Carter Jr. In two
Speaker 1: first round picks, So really not that much going off
Speaker 1: the door for a guy who's been incredible this year
Speaker 1: and four on like would be eight two shooting. He's
Speaker 1: one of the most official efficient offensive players in the league.
Speaker 1: And now you're pairing that with Zach Lavine right, who
Speaker 1: has also been one of the most efficient scorers in
Speaker 1: the league, so offensively, they are going to be a nightmare.
Speaker 1: I wish, just from a bull standpoint, I wish they
Speaker 1: could have like maybe worked a trade for a Lonzo
Speaker 1: because now you have some some really really fun lineups
Speaker 1: that probably aren't contenders in the East, but you're building
Speaker 1: something around some guys who were young. Booch is a
Speaker 1: little bit older than Levine obviously, I want to say
Speaker 1: he's twenty nine, so he's on a little bit later
Speaker 1: of a timeline. But he also seems like a guy
Speaker 1: whose skill set is gonna age very very well because
Speaker 1: he's not dependent on any type of quickness. Really, he's
Speaker 1: he's strength and he's skilled. Um, he's an awesome player.
Speaker 1: He obviously makes them much better. The Bulls go from
Speaker 1: maybe a team that could fall out of the playoff
Speaker 1: race to definitely being a playoff team in the East.
Speaker 1: And I think it's just the Bulls are signaling, hey,
Speaker 1: we number one, we really like Zach Lavine UM and
Speaker 1: number two, if we can do things to improve this team,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do him. And that hasn't been um a
Speaker 1: trade of the regimes in the past, Like guar Packs
Speaker 1: was one of the worst front office in the league.
Speaker 1: Um they brought in I can't pronounce the guy's name
Speaker 1: our tourists, I don't. I cannot pronounce the last name.
Speaker 1: The guy who was Denver's assistant GM is now their
Speaker 1: gm um, and he's done some really nice things, like
Speaker 1: and I think they're probably they're probably gonna pay you know,
Speaker 1: whatever Levin's extension is. I'm coming up soon. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I think they're signaling that we're trying to
Speaker 1: build something here. UM in Chicago can be a destination,
Speaker 1: like it's it's one of the bigger markets in the league.
Speaker 1: So if they get good, UM, I think it will
Speaker 1: become a free agent destination too. Yeah. I think like
Speaker 1: the cornerstone for this entire piece is how good Zach
Speaker 1: Levine has been. Um. To me, he's like this era,
Speaker 1: this generations Bradley Beal And Uh, that's gonna sound crazy
Speaker 1: because there are only a few years apart. But what
Speaker 1: I mean by that is like the guy who's been
Speaker 1: on a bad team who like suddenly is like showing
Speaker 1: these scoring flashes that you see from the very best
Speaker 1: players in the league. And it's a it's an actual
Speaker 1: translatable thing, Bradley Beale. It's a little bit more skill based,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more just incredible Paul uh and
Speaker 1: was Zach Levine. It's more of this like freak athleticism
Speaker 1: mixed with incredible shooting touch. But there's a you can you.
Speaker 1: I mean, zach Levine has some bona fide weaknesses. He's
Speaker 1: legitimately a bad defensive player. However, as an offensive player,
Speaker 1: he's every bit as good as a lot of the
Speaker 1: best players in the league. And and it's crazy because
Speaker 1: it's uh. He was probably one of the more uh
Speaker 1: like like one of the more like despised players by
Speaker 1: the maligned is probably the better word, like disliked players
Speaker 1: around the league in re especially by the analytics community.
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, a lot of those guys have like
Speaker 1: done a one eighty on it because he's scoring so
Speaker 1: officially he's shooting from the field and from three, scoring
Speaker 1: twenty eight points game. That's insane. That's like rarefied air.
Speaker 1: Nobody does that. So look at now, now what you're
Speaker 1: working with is uh, let's call him a fifteen to
Speaker 1: twenty top twenty player in the NBA and zach Lavine
Speaker 1: and now you're adding a twenty to twenty five type
Speaker 1: of player. And in Nikolavusevich, who who who has been
Speaker 1: playing for really bad teams for a long time. So
Speaker 1: there's something to be said about putting him next to
Speaker 1: a really, really talented player. Um I'm with you. I
Speaker 1: don't think they're any sort of real legitimate threat. Uh,
Speaker 1: certainly not yet. However, there's something to build on there now.
Speaker 1: All you need is for some of these young guys
Speaker 1: like Kobe White and Lorie Marketing to pan out, and
Speaker 1: if they do, you could be in a in a really,
Speaker 1: really good spot. But I I I'm they've they've they've
Speaker 1: become an infinitely more interesting UH League past team to watch.
Speaker 1: That's for sure, way more interesting, and like I said,
Speaker 1: in a big market like that. They're They're obviously not
Speaker 1: as big as you know, the Lakers or the Knicks
Speaker 1: or even the Worries in terms of market, but they
Speaker 1: are one of the bigger markets in the league. You
Speaker 1: do become a bigger free agent destination when when that
Speaker 1: time comes right, like, more guys will consider playing with them,
Speaker 1: because Hey, it's at the very least, we're gonna be
Speaker 1: on a fun ross. We're gonna be competitive, we're gonna
Speaker 1: win some games, and if things break right, we can
Speaker 1: make some noise in the play us. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: it's at least again a team that's trying on a
Speaker 1: team that's uh. I think again, I think this team
Speaker 1: was teetering on on a rebuild. Uh and zach zach
Speaker 1: Levine's ridiculous improvement. Clearly he took advantage of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Zach Levine's ridiculous improvement completely tilted them back on the
Speaker 1: other end of that timeline. And I think, I think
Speaker 1: that's cool to see, and it's exciting for Chicago fans.
Speaker 1: And again, now you're in that zone where you've got
Speaker 1: your two guys, you just need to make some a
Speaker 1: couple of key successful moves on the periphery and then
Speaker 1: you can be in good shape. I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: surprised they didn't move market in because him and Bukovitch
Speaker 1: are pretty redundant. Like I thought they would have moved
Speaker 1: him for at least some type of defensive pieces or
Speaker 1: at least contracts that aren't going to expire, um, you know,
Speaker 1: just to fill the salaries so they can make future
Speaker 1: moves um. But yeah, I mean there's something to build
Speaker 1: on there, And I think that's that's a great takeaway
Speaker 1: from the trade DeLine, especially when, like you're saying, coming
Speaker 1: to this season almost looked like they should be rebuilding
Speaker 1: for sure. And and for here's what I'll say about marketing,
Speaker 1: And I've watched him for a really long time because
Speaker 1: he came through the University of Arizona, and as a result,
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of him when he was in Chicago.
Speaker 1: The dude has been hurt all the time, which is
Speaker 1: good and bad. It's bad because it means he's shown
Speaker 1: a propensity to be susceptible to injuries. But it's also
Speaker 1: good in the sense that there's a little bit of
Speaker 1: unknown surrounding it. We don't really know necessarily how good
Speaker 1: he is, and and you know, there's an impression around
Speaker 1: the league that he's not very valuable, and that may
Speaker 1: have been the main reason why they didn't trade him.
Speaker 1: And so if you're Chicago, you just look at it like,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, maybe this dude really does suck,
Speaker 1: in which case, you know, we know that in house,
Speaker 1: and we can trade him for even if it's just
Speaker 1: something small this summer or maybe just in the long
Speaker 1: In the long run, he finally gets healthy and he
Speaker 1: pans into something and then you can move him at
Speaker 1: that point. But I mean, with with how crappy his
Speaker 1: first few years in the league have gone, there was
Speaker 1: no scenario where they were just going to get a
Speaker 1: bunch of a great value for him. No, definitely not.
Speaker 1: And he I mean to be clear, he does have
Speaker 1: some skill. It's just and like you said, it's just
Speaker 1: been very up and down. A lot of injuries and
Speaker 1: just a lot of roster change, a lot of just
Speaker 1: turnover and turmoil in Chicago. Alright, guys, the last thing
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today is Alonzo ball not getting traded. Um.
Speaker 1: And this one's interesting in the sense because it's it
Speaker 1: kind of falls into the same conversation that we keep
Speaker 1: having today surrounding what people are willing to pay for
Speaker 1: a player that's a fringe star to a mid level player,
Speaker 1: and and and part of the problem here is just
Speaker 1: kind of like the lack of a middle class in
Speaker 1: the NBA's payment structure. It seems like every dude is
Speaker 1: It's like it seems like you have like half the
Speaker 1: league playing on minimum deals, and then you've got like
Speaker 1: a quarter of the league playing on like mid level exceptions,
Speaker 1: and then another half of the league's I'll make it,
Speaker 1: or another quarter at the remaining quarter of the league,
Speaker 1: I'll making twenty million plus. And so that's what sucks
Speaker 1: because then like a guy, like a Lonzo comes up,
Speaker 1: who you know, is a legitimately good basketball player, Like
Speaker 1: the kid can defend, and now he's made himself into
Speaker 1: a really good shooter, and he is a really good
Speaker 1: maybe an extension, an exaggeration, but he's a above average
Speaker 1: shooter as of late. And he has legitimate skill offensively
Speaker 1: as like kind of an off ball guard who can
Speaker 1: push the ball in transition, make the right play, run, run,
Speaker 1: pick and roll, all that good stuff. So he has
Speaker 1: he's a too, but he he has like secondary playmaking chops,
Speaker 1: especially in transition exactly. And so the interesting thing there
Speaker 1: is is you know, what number is that worth? But
Speaker 1: again you have to look at it from the standpoint
Speaker 1: of like a player's worth is what a bad team
Speaker 1: is willing to pay them. And I guarantee you some
Speaker 1: bad teams gonna play pylons of fifteen million a year
Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, So, uh, I hope
Speaker 1: you're muted, can you hear me? Yeah? Now again, Okay,
Speaker 1: I think it'll be closer to yeah, and maybe maybe
Speaker 1: it's twenty. But the point is is, like, if you're
Speaker 1: New Orleans, you're not getting some big time free agent
Speaker 1: you got you kind of have to approach this with
Speaker 1: the opposite method as some of these UH coastal powerhouses
Speaker 1: and you and and to me, it's like you you
Speaker 1: can let a Lonzo walk uh and maybe some of
Speaker 1: your draft picks pay a pan out and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's especially when you consider the timeline, Like my
Speaker 1: guess is that with Zion and b I, you're not
Speaker 1: going to be contending for three or four more years anyway,
Speaker 1: So why not toss a Lonzo at three or four
Speaker 1: more year deal and then if he doesn't fit into
Speaker 1: the timeline when b I and Zion are in their primes,
Speaker 1: then you can kind of change your mind at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think he'll always have a trade value even
Speaker 1: if he's at twenty million a year. I think he
Speaker 1: does enough things well and he's gonna keep getting better.
Speaker 1: It's not like the guy's gonna become a worst basketball
Speaker 1: player unless he just has a weird development track. He's
Speaker 1: gonna keep getting better even at twenty million a year.
Speaker 1: I think he's a pretty valuable player, Like I really do,
Speaker 1: Especially as the I would assume the cap starts to
Speaker 1: continue to go up a little bit, it might get
Speaker 1: kind of funky because of what Covid has done to
Speaker 1: the league, um, just in terms of revenue. But I
Speaker 1: think at twenty million dollars a year, as long as
Speaker 1: there's not some crazy overpay where he's at like twenty
Speaker 1: five or thirty, he's gonna be a good contractor and
Speaker 1: maybe not great, but it will be a solid contract
Speaker 1: for what he can do, especially because it can defend.
Speaker 1: Like he's three in D, but he also has playmaking,
Speaker 1: and those guys are super valuable because that's what makes
Speaker 1: them rare. There's a ton of three and D guys
Speaker 1: in the league, but there aren't a lot of guys
Speaker 1: who can also like create against the clothes out or
Speaker 1: bring it in transition and really be a good passer
Speaker 1: and find teammates and create opportunities for teammates. He can
Speaker 1: do all that stuff. So at twenty million a year,
Speaker 1: I think he's a great value. And I think even
Speaker 1: if I think New Orleans would be stupid not to
Speaker 1: match basically any offer a twenty million or under, yep. Agree,
Speaker 1: and and quite frankly, he's a He's a perfect fit
Speaker 1: with brandon ingraman Zion. It just in terms of what
Speaker 1: you'd be willing to uh, what you're asking him to
Speaker 1: do and what a skill set is. He's not ever
Speaker 1: going to be asked to do something that that that
Speaker 1: doesn't fit his skill set. And to me that that
Speaker 1: makes him a natural fit and a guy that makes
Speaker 1: a ton of sense. And he's one of those guys.
Speaker 1: He's one of those guys for like any of the
Speaker 1: top ten teams in the league. Where isn't he a
Speaker 1: perfect fit? You know, like, what what top ten team
Speaker 1: in the league would you put him on? You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that doesn't really work. Like I'm not saying he brings
Speaker 1: a title, but he makes your team better with all
Speaker 1: the things that he does. He does things that are
Speaker 1: really really valuable, and that type of stuff isn't going anywhere.
Speaker 1: The defense, in the passing that will never go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Maybe the shot is a little bit inconsistent, but it's
Speaker 1: been at thirty from three for like the last two
Speaker 1: seasons basically, so it's probably not going to be much
Speaker 1: worse than that for the rest of his career. And
Speaker 1: one last thing on on the Pelicans, Like I there's
Speaker 1: been some talk about whether or not, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it makes sense to keep Zion and brandon Ingram together.
Speaker 1: I am I'm a huge believer in those two together. Uh.
Speaker 1: To me, it's that like, this is two completely different players.
Speaker 1: So I don't want to be uh you know, uh
Speaker 1: make a complete equivalency, but it'd be like it's kind
Speaker 1: of like a Lebron type archetype and a Zion type
Speaker 1: or excuse me, into a Kope type archetype. You have
Speaker 1: this brandon Ingram who's really really really good in the
Speaker 1: margins as like a as like a fine tuned score,
Speaker 1: and then you've got the bowl in the China shop. Uh.
Speaker 1: And because there are times when the bull in the
Speaker 1: China Shop doesn't work, and there are times when this
Speaker 1: elite fine tune score doesn't work. And so I do
Speaker 1: think there is a universe where it works. I just
Speaker 1: think that David Griffin has to do a better job
Speaker 1: of of of putting guys around them. The Steven Adams
Speaker 1: trade was one of the most nonsensical trades that I've
Speaker 1: seen in recent years. And then they extended the guy
Speaker 1: for way too much money. The trade was mine. It
Speaker 1: was the extension. Adding the extension on top, like if
Speaker 1: you want to trade him to bring him in to
Speaker 1: be in minutes eater. So science not always playing the
Speaker 1: five and then you extend him at six seven eight
Speaker 1: million a year. Fine, that makes sense, but they gave
Speaker 1: him what seventeen or eighteen million a year? It was
Speaker 1: like two years, like seventeen and a half million a year.
Speaker 1: That's where it made no sense. And then you gotta
Speaker 1: get rid of Bledsoe too. Like they just they need
Speaker 1: shooting around those two. You that's the name of the game. Now,
Speaker 1: you need to put you in around your superstars. If
Speaker 1: they can do that, then yeah, that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: pretty damn good duo moving forward. Because they're both already
Speaker 1: really good. They just got to improve in the margins
Speaker 1: of their game, Like they both have to become better defenders.
Speaker 1: They have to become more consistent. Well Zigon is already
Speaker 1: pretty freaking consistent. But um yeah, like they're in a
Speaker 1: good spot as long as they don't mess things up
Speaker 1: too much. Yeah, David Griffin is gonna figure his crap out.
Speaker 1: They're they're pretty much a surefire bet in my opinion,
Speaker 1: to be a top both of them to be top
Speaker 1: fifteen players within the next two years. Maybe Brandon Ingram
Speaker 1: has add some real defensive slippage since he went to
Speaker 1: since he went to New Orleans, but I have seen
Speaker 1: him under Luke Walton be an extremely good defensive player,
Speaker 1: like a flat out dominant defensive player. That kid has
Speaker 1: it in there. I think he shelved that to find
Speaker 1: tune his offensive game. And for the record, he has
Speaker 1: fine tuned his offensive game. The kid is unbelievable as
Speaker 1: an offensive player. So there's this clear cut archetype of
Speaker 1: you know, Paul George type of player that he's gonna be,
Speaker 1: uh in the slightly different in the sense that Brandon
Speaker 1: Ingram is more midrange oriented and and Paul George is
Speaker 1: more of like a high volume three point shooter. But
Speaker 1: I just mean that in terms of like a big
Speaker 1: wing who is a is an elite defensive player and
Speaker 1: is a twenty six seven point a game guy over
Speaker 1: affective field goal percentage. That's that's the kind of guy
Speaker 1: that he is, and that's a you know, if that's
Speaker 1: a bona fide piece. And then Zion Williamson is on
Speaker 1: the fast track to being like this generation is Blake Griffin,
Speaker 1: a guy that in the seasons where he's health he
Speaker 1: could very easily be a fourth fifth best player in
Speaker 1: the league. So there you have the talent, it's just
Speaker 1: about figuring out the pieces around it. They did be
Speaker 1: an amazing team for a Miles Turner type of player,
Speaker 1: uh to play in the front. I don't know why
Speaker 1: if that, if they can do anything to make that happen,
Speaker 1: any to do it immediately like that's it's such a
Speaker 1: nice fit around their core. Even though his three point
Speaker 1: shooting is almost more theoretical at this point, but he
Speaker 1: does have just some natural kind of like spacing gravity
Speaker 1: because it does team teams think it looks good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of the times. That's what matters, because whether
Speaker 1: he's shooting thirty two or thirty five maybe matters a
Speaker 1: little bit. He's gonna need to make some big ones eventually,
Speaker 1: but it more matters our teams paying attention to him,
Speaker 1: and teams absolutely pay attention to him on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: And then to go on top of that, he's a
Speaker 1: defensive Player of the Year level player, Like he's that
Speaker 1: good on the defense defensive end, So if as long
Speaker 1: as they're not absolutely giving away everything, they should make
Speaker 1: that move happen. Well, it's the Rondo effect. It's this
Speaker 1: idea that like you know, Rondo shooting thirty seven percent
Speaker 1: from three this year. It's like, yeah, but they're still
Speaker 1: not guarding him and he's not aggressive enough with the
Speaker 1: shot to where it can make these defenses pay that
Speaker 1: that that is the the the key difference. It's it's
Speaker 1: the like you said, theoretical shooting versus actual shooting. There's
Speaker 1: a there's a huge difference between the two. And and
Speaker 1: theoretical shooting is enough to generate spacing and and and
Speaker 1: it's like the Marcusol effect, Like Marcusol hasn't shot the
Speaker 1: ball that amazingly well since he left Toronto. He's had
Speaker 1: a little bit of a good stretch before he went out.
Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter is like team's guard Marcusol,
Speaker 1: and it dramatically impacts the Laker spacing and makes things
Speaker 1: seem more open. Well, it's different for centers, right, because
Speaker 1: centers typically they're playing defensively in the paint. So it's
Speaker 1: it's the inverse of the guard. Uards can kind of
Speaker 1: stag off and not really close out on guards were
Speaker 1: bad shooters. Centers, they don't really know how to guard
Speaker 1: a guy who's constantly standing on the perimeter. It just
Speaker 1: throws them off. And now if they're just a step
Speaker 1: or two closer. It's giving your zions and your brandon
Speaker 1: ingram just more space to work and get to the
Speaker 1: rim or get to their mid range. M No, exactly,
Speaker 1: all right, man, did you have anything else you wanted
Speaker 1: to add? No, that's about it. Um. Yeah, interesting trade deadline.
Speaker 1: I I didn't like I said, I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's any like true true title shifting moves Denver. I
Speaker 1: thought Denver did a great job, like I said, like,
Speaker 1: Eric Gordon's a great pickup. And then Victor I think
Speaker 1: is a great pickup for the Heat. As long as
Speaker 1: he's you know, relatively healthy. He's not going to be
Speaker 1: what he was his p He's not that guy, but
Speaker 1: he's if he's at it's a great pickup. Um. But
Speaker 1: you know, Denver now has a chance to win a
Speaker 1: title if teams keep getting injured in the playoffs, and
Speaker 1: injuries have been an issue this season because it was
Speaker 1: a shortened off season. Yeah, Aaron Gordon to Denver to
Speaker 1: me is easily the most impactful trade. Um, the one
Speaker 1: that could have potentially swung the result here is you
Speaker 1: know the eye I am like this close to picking
Speaker 1: Brooklyn to win the title. And uh, because they looks
Speaker 1: so good, and uh, I just can't keep lying in
Speaker 1: the face of incontrovertible evidence. They're better defensive. They're a
Speaker 1: better defensive team, and we thought they were going to
Speaker 1: be Uh. Steve Kerr finally got uh, Steve Nash finally
Speaker 1: got them to start competing on that end. And a
Speaker 1: lot of that credit goes to Kyrie and James Harden
Speaker 1: by the way, Uh, they're playing harder on defense than
Speaker 1: they then you would have expected. Uh. And then they
Speaker 1: just have That's the route we laid out. We said,
Speaker 1: if they compete defensively, they can absolutely win the title.
Speaker 1: And they are. And so I'm not quite there yet,
Speaker 1: but I'm very very close. Uh. And so that Kyle
Speaker 1: Lowry to the Lakers theoretical deal would have been one
Speaker 1: that I think would have swung me back to being
Speaker 1: more convincingly on the Laker bandwagon. But yeah, super interesting.
Speaker 1: And then hopefully by this time next week we'll have
Speaker 1: a couple of buyout deals that we can talk about
Speaker 1: that might transform things a little bit. But everybody, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. I appreciate you, guys.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work on the download version of this for
Speaker 1: the podcast in the next ten fifteen minutes. But as always,
Speaker 1: thank you guys for your support. I will be going
Speaker 1: live with RAJ tomorrow morning at eight o'clock Pacific Standard time. Tommy,
Speaker 1: I hope you have a good rest for your weekend. Man.
Speaker 1: Thanks man YouTube later see ye