WEBVTT - Bessent Says Nvidia, AMD Deals Could Be a “Model” 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:13.440 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.279 from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.480 and Edma low Intend frances Go. 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.840 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.080 Treasury Secretary Scott Besson says the US is open to 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.880 discussing the use of nvideo chips with China US. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.040 China's ten Cent shows fast growth across its gaming and 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.720 ad businesses and plans for smart AI spending. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.240 And our conversation with the CEO of core Weave after 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.080 its earnings we discuss how the company plans to scale 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:46.519 to meet AI demand. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.519 But first we check in on these markets that are 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.120 very close, if not at record highs. Once again, ed 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.720 we drive higher and it's more about federal reserve policy. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.240 Will we get a megacut coming later in the year. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.000 Now A's at one hundred clint to games, but we 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.480 are near a record at a record high, so too 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.880 for bitcoin seven ten percent Ether is high too. We 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.319 now have four trillion dollars market cap for the entirety 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.240 of the crypto market, just about the same size as 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.280 say in Vidia, what are you looking at? 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.960 Yeah, I'm looking at Nvidia and AMD Now I'm going 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.679 to be really clear here. It's really hard to see 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.680 the catalyst to cause or link for why Nvidia is 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.720 down a percentage point in AMD's up four and a 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.399 half percent. Social media volumes for AMD have quadrupled in 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.000 the last hour. People are talking about it. There's a 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.840 reason why they're talking about it. It's because this is 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.000 what Treasury Secretary Scott Besant told Bloomberg Samory hoard in 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:38.640 earlier today. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.640 We would not sell. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.640 Any of the advanced chips, So the aged twenties, I 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:46.440 don't know whether you'd say there are four or five 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.040 six levels down the chip stack. What we do not 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.440 want here, em Marie, is for Huawei to have a 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.760 digital Belton road, right, So we do not want the 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:04.760 standard to become Chinese across the world or even in China. 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.720 Let's understand this administration's policies for chip makers and speaks 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.320 of Bloomberg Surveillance co host Amry Horden, who just conducted 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.640 that interview, the underlying assumptions changed actually this week whether 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.640 or not China even wants America's reduced power chips. But 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.320 what I found some interesting about the content of what 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.040 Beson was telling you is that they feel that it's 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.160 not really even a national security concern. They're very clear 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.320 that these are lower performance chips and they want American 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:33.560 tech to be present there. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:35.680 Give us the digest of what else you said. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.240 Yeah, that was really his answer to my question of 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.960 what do you say to critics that basically think this 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:47.639 administration is putting revenue in front of national security concerns 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.080 that export licenses now look to be seemingly for sale. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.239 He said that the H twenty chip. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.320 And I guess similar to AMD, the m I three 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.040 or eight is four or five, six stacks down from 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.840 that higher level, and they're never going to allow China 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.519 to get to the higher level chip. He almost sounded 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.440 a little bit like someone you speak to often when 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.280 it comes to Jensen Wang about what it means to 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.240 make sure that Nvidia or AMD have a footprint in 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.640 China because they don't want Huawei to get control of that. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.239 And the big question. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.400 Mark is now is that what is the appetite in 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.480 Beijing for these chips given the fact that there's been 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.760 this new urgency since the administration is allowing these export 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.880 licenses once again from the CCP to send out these 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.320 letters to firms telling them to snub these chips and 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.040 go for some of their own national champions. And this 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.000 is something the Treasury Secretary told me and Jonathan that 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.360 he is going to bring up with his Chinese counterpart. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:45.640 I Marie. 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.320 What's also interesting is he also told you and Jonathan 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.320 that maybe this could be replicated at the moment. It's unique, 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.240 he mentioned, but maybe it applies to other chip makers 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:56.360 on the industries. 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:56.240 He said. 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.400 It's a unique model, something that the President likes to do, 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.160 try to things. But yeah, that's something that caught me 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.200 off guard as well, or something that we've been also 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.080 just exploring. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.280 Every day with guests. Whether or not this is new. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.240 Rules of engagement and rules of the road for corporate America. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.880 Can other companies potentially strike these types of deals with 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.720 the United States or maybe the other way around. Could 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.520 the Oval Office and the President tell other companies, if 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.720 you want to gain access to a market, we're going 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.760 to have to get part of that profit. Because what's 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.880 going on right now, and this has been a really 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.040 long saga, we should note for the H twenty chips, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.839 remember in April there was an export ban. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:38.880 On these chips. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.720 Then this was reversed in the meantime, we had US 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.800 and Chinese counterparts to having trade negotiations, and a lot 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.480 of people glean into this, and the Treasury Secretary told 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.120 me in a previous interview this H twenty was a 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.520 chip part of the mosaic of these trade negotiations because 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.880 the US needed rare earths. And now that the US 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.800 has lifted the ex control instead of just allowing the 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.839 export licenses to come back, it seems a president struck 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:07.839 this deal one on one with Jensen Wang in the 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.040 Oval Office. Reported the President throughout twenty percent, and then 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.159 Jensen Wang said, well, how about fifteen percent? And then 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.160 what does this mean is a big question for other 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.120 companies in corporate America down the road. 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.440 The very quick question is what happens next? Right, because 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.600 Treasury Secretary Beston, on top of what the President said 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.400 earlier in the week, says that they'll discuss the idea 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:34.279 of unenhanced Blackwell chips essentially with China. He leads talks 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.440 just very quick, what does happen next? 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.240 Well, I think it depends on the leverage in these 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.279 negotiations and what the US wants to get out of China. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.520 We also had the President the other day talk about 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.920 the purchasing agreement he struck in his first administration when 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.719 it comes to things like soybeans. There is now a 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.360 ninety day extension which brings us to November for these 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.200 trade talks between these two counterparts. And in my previous 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.240 interviews with the Treasury Secretary in July, he taught talked 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.599 about how now there'll be more of a frequent cadence 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.800 between him and his Chinese counterpart to have these discussions. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.560 All of this likely will lead up potentially to a 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.599 meeting between Chairman she and President Trump, either on the 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.520 sidelines of the APEC summit or even maybe the President 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:17.239 going to China. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.159 New Max Savanien's co host amriy hold On it was 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.880 a brilliant interview. Thanks for breaking it down for us. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.640 Let's delve more into the corporate implications China US the 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:31.880 AI competition major it is with US Alien Spernstein joining 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.200 US now, and I'm really interested as to how Alliance 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.960 Spernstein thinks about pricing this in if at all, How 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.960 are you looking at the opportunity to access the Chinese 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:43.960 market going forward? 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:46.800 Well, I think China has always remained one of the 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:51.279 most strategic markets and will remain so, and particularly in 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.919 the AI world. If you think about AI, how we 0:06:55.000 --> 0:07:00.480 think about the scale benefit right the ecosystems. It's always 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.440 been a bit for a big part of the origination 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:08.800 of innovations, particularly technology innovations, but China has done a 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.920 phenomenal job in terms of using it and then using 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.960 it at a very large scale. When you think about 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.960 in the AI context having the ecosystem globally, it's this 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:23.320 very important strategic advantage long term. The more data you have, 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.760 the better the model becomes. And that's not just for 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.000 China alone, but think about globally, who wants to be 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:34.280 the dominant standard? Having the operating system that layer is 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.080 very very strategic for most companies' longer term. So that's 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.000 why we're thinking. That's what Jensen said, That's what leads 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.720 us to at AMD said, and then I think that's 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.760 how we're thinking about it, which is who will be 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.160 the dominant AI standard? We want to have a one 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.280 global ecosystem or are we going to have different forks 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:55.080 into the future. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.200 But these so will dumb down in President Trump even 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.040 call them obsolete chips being allowed into China, does that 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.200 ensure that they remain part of the tech stack. 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.760 Well, it's too early to tell. 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.640 For the most part, I think necessity usually drives innovation. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.600 So when we don't export anything, then it probably is 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.480 a greater incentive for China to develop its own domestic 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.920 ecosystem that's completely separate. 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:24.560 So this is a bridge. 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.560 I think in my mind that we can abridge that 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.480 big drastic action that we've seen earlier on this year. 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.560 I think China does have advantages to some extent, and 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.880 it has a more newly developed power infrastructure system, it 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.000 has vast amount of data, and it's developed a lot 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:49.000 of these open source models that they are really rapidly pushing. 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:51.319 So it remains to be seen. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.000 But I think it's quite important and quite strategic for 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.800 the US companies to think about the global standard. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:08:59.559 Think about iPhone. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.160 For instance, right, yes, the iPhone or Tesla, the data 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.280 resides in China. We respect that. But that said, there's 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.880 still lessons that we learn from adoption at this point. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.560 If you think about a lot of AI models, we've 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.400 trained a lot of datas already, but going forward, the 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.760 use of AI, the use of applications, and that's new 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.720 sets of data that's constantly being generated and we don't 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.240 want to not have access. 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.800 To that lay. 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.440 The Treasury Secretary indicated to us that this pay to 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.080 play or quid pro quo of a revenue share in 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:38.599 exchange for access to the Chinese market could be expanded. 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:40.960 What I want to know from you is, if that 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.320 were to be the case with high bandwidth memory or 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.240 telematics or other parts of the server design, would you 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:52.640 then upgrade your overall outlook for in megawatt terms or 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.560 giga what terms the amount of installed capacity we could 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:56.480 see around the world. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.680 I think it's too early to tell. 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.280 I think think, as you've seen from a policy standpoint, 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.720 there has been quite a bit of fluidity in terms 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.320 of the changes back and forth. But I think it's 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.079 certainly promising that you know, some of the really drastic 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.520 assumption that we had in April, some of it is 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:16.800 being discounted today. 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.520 So it remains to be seen. 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.560 And I would say it's very early, and I would 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:28.080 refer from making any assumptions, whether too aggressive or I 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.280 would say it is definitely an improvement from the worst 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:32.040 case scenario. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.800 Late tu of a Linespernstein, thank you very much. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.040 Shares of ten cent, well, look they are rising today 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.480 after posting second quarter revenue that beat analyst expectations. The 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.680 company says it plans to accelerate spending on AI research, 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.839 will focus on integrating it across its services, across its 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:55.319 content from all Bloomergs. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:56.280 Henry Wren joins us. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.520 And it's interesting though they said they're going to invest smartly. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:01.800 Is this prudent capex? 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:06.000 It feels like, yeah, thanks for having me. And it's 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.600 pretty interesting because when you look at their CAPEX budget 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.920 for the quarter, they spent about nineteen billion R and 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.439 B in a quarter, so that has been you would say, 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.200 a fraction of what US tech giants have been spending. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.360 And on the court they mentioned that they will be 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.080 spending on AI chips, that's a priority. They also be 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.720 recruiting talents. However, they will adopt this more prudent approach, 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.160 so it does seem that they're not in a rush 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.560 to spend as much as they can. They say that 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.120 they have enough AI chips for now. They say that 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:40.600 their stockpile is enough for training and for inferences. And 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:41.959 that's probably why. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.880 There is some skepticism from the anless community. In the 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.280 same way that they look at the American companies on 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.760 how CAPEX translates to top line growth anyway, specific AI growth, 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.080 but in the courter gone, they're just parts of the 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.319 business that are doing well. Where's ten cents strong, Henry. 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:03.520 Yeah, I would say they're firing on all cylinders for 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.080 this quarter. So the games has been a standout. International 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.319 games grew by about thirty five percent in a quarter. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.040 They launched some new games, including one called Dune Awakening 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.360 in international markets, but domestically it's about their evergreen games. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.840 So we're talking about the peace Keeper Elite, which is 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.200 a six to zero old game. The company said that 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.959 it's gaining traction because of a new game model. That 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.800 game saw a thirty percent increase in user volume. 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:29.320 For the quarter. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.240 That's about games, but at revenue site it's growing very 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.080 strong as well, twenty percent increase for the quarter. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:37.640 The company said it's. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.400 Benefiting from AI tools being adopted over there as well, 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.200 so it's basically strength across the board. 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.360 Bloombergs Henry Wren, thank you very much. Let's get more 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.880 and bring in Jacob co founder and CEO WPIC Marketing 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:56.000 and Technologies and e commerce and technology consultancy focused on 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.640 the Asian region. Somebody asked me a question earlier today 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.200 that fits into the ten Cent story so well, which 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.000 is we've been so focused on the movement of chips 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.520 across borders or a lack of we haven't really talked 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.079 about the movement of software, right, And when I think 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.320 about ten Cent and the gaming portfolio in particular, are 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:16.840 there Chinese domestic companies that are getting international foothold across 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.440 e commerce, gaming and other digital businesses? 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:21.800 Yeah, definitely. 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.480 I mean even ten Cent is one of those with 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.040 their big investments and a shoppie really kind of being 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.600 a top leading player in Southeast Asia in terms of 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.040 e commerce. But yeah, I mean ten Center is they're 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.720 taking a lot of the advertising dollars you know, that 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.080 are coming from that big e commerce boom inside China 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:37.880 as well too. They're not so much of a player 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.400 as as say Ali Baba, you know in terms of 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.080 the B to B software that they have a whole 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.559 suite of, but you know, in terms of the advertising 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.720 becoming a bigger and bigger player in that in that part, 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.200 we saw that revenue also up by five percent this quarter. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.120 You know, the theme from Meta's earnings if there was 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:58.239 some softness in advertising was a pullback of Chinese advertisers 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.920 in the European region in particular, perhaps in the United 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.840 States because of the geopolitical environment. I'm trying to read 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.600 through what's going on with ten Cent, and I just 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.839 don't see that macro level headwind, do you. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:11.040 No? 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.160 And I think that really what you're seeing though, is 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.320 because a lot of that advertising is still based in China. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.040 That you know, we're coming out of a year of 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.840 pretty big stimulus in terms of the government and e 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.880 commerce spending, so we should naturally see that trickle down 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.080 come into about now Q three and Q four as 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.480 well being pretty strong in terms of the advertising dollars 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.680 that they're coming in. No, they never really had that 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.560 major post COVID stimulus in China and they waited a 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.360 little while, So we're seeing good numbers now, and we 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.560 would expect that they would hold because you know, low 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.280 inflation numbers in China as well. It also bides really 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.160 well for the consumers. So we're pretty excited about ten 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.160 cents earnings and we think that probably you're going to 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:48.920 see some pretty more good news from the e commerce 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.240 providers in China in the coming weeks as well. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.840 Yeah, we braced ourselves to Alibaba later in the week, 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.360 for example, called Jacob, I want to hear how much 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.320 access they're having to GPUs, how much AI and to 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.000 AI might be held back by ultimately the infrastructure they need. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.160 It sounded as though, once again ten Cent trying to say, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.400 we've got all the chips we need for inference, we're 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.160 not worried about it. They wouldn't go into the nitty 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.680 gritty about in video access for example. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.080 But Jacob, is it a worry? 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.200 Well, I mean we've all been saying this, but we've 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.560 now seen you know, three successive like the QN model 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.200 exactly from Ali Baba that's now leading, not leading, but 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.600 certainly up there in terms of its ability to code, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:29.920 and they're going down a little bit different path at Alibaba, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:31.560 but and Deep Seek as well. I mean, all of 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.280 those models are competing internationally despite the chip band. So 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.200 if ten Cent comes and says that you know, they 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.160 have all the chips they need, there's no reason not 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:39.840 to believe that. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.160 More broadly, the geopolitical context, it doesn't seem to be 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.880 knocking the wind out are owning these Chinese companies sales. 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.640 I mean, they've all recovered significantly from their lows. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.080 Yeah, I think that one of the things, you know, 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.080 for us that are boots on the ground in China. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.080 You know, there is the really high level government that 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.560 you know, where the relations are not great, and we 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.520 see the headlines, but you know, for boots on the 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.120 ground and for the local level, it's actually been very 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.880 very strong. You know, people to people connection is still 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:10.720 very good over there, and there's still a lot of 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.960 businesses that are setting records international business that are setting 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.240 sales records in China. So you know, there's the headlines, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.760 but actually on the ground, I think people have been 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.040 doing business over there for quite a long time. Relationships 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.680 have been built up over decades. So we're kind of 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:27.720 expecting this to blow over, just like it kind of 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.800 did with the first Trump administration, and people will get 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:30.520 back to business. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.560 You still have a president that in a press conference 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.480 is talking about a paid to play arrangement where the 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.600 CEO of the biggest company in the world, Nvidia, has 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.360 gone to him and agreed to a revenue share right 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.560 to get access to the Chinese market. In a tariff 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.000 or a trade dispute in China, does the same thing happen? 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:53.520 Do you have the leaders of. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.160 These biggest technology companies talking about and acknowledging their government's 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.240 policies in the same way and vice us. 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.879 Well, no, you don't, certainly, but I mean there's almost 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.440 the exact opposite approach. I mean there's been an export 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.520 tax credit out of China for a long time too, 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.199 so it's almost like they're going the other way and 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.480 trying to reduce prices for international consumers as opposed to 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:20.600 the strategy of essentially taxing exports. So no, you know, 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.040 through all these things, you know, like we said, you know, 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.720 no one's really had a problem getting access to what 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.399 they needed to get access to, and pricing seems to 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.399 be okay in the Chinese market. So yes, there's going 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.680 to be some headwinds. Q one was you know, particularly 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.280 tumultuous in the US China business cycle. But you know, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.000 we've been through this before and we're probably going to 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:42.560 get through it again. And the numbers I think are 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.120 starting to say that we're probably getting over the hump here. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:47.680 We'll see how the rest of the earnings come through 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.080 for these Chinese giants. Jacob Kok is always great to 0:17:50.160 --> 0:18:02.200 check out with you. The CEO of WPIC marketing and technologies. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:00.600 To a company. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.280 Bullish raised more than a billion dollars in an IPO, 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.760 pricing it shares above the marketed range and the digital 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.199 asset exchange operator and also the owner of Media Outlook 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.280 coindesk so thirty million shares yesterday for thirty seven dollars each. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.560 Bloomberg's Anthony Hughes joins us as we await the company 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.240 to actually start training on the NYSE that indicated to 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.919 open sixty five to seventy dollars each. That not quite double. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.359 There's another big pop for another hot retail EPO. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:28.800 It feels like, Yes. 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.199 We've had a number of strong IPOs recently, obviously Circle 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.400 in June and then Figma a few weeks ago, So 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:35.919 this is really directionally a. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.240 Very similar story. And we've seen very stronger. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.560 Man and we reported earlier today that there was north 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.879 of twenty times out of subscription levels for this IPO 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.879 and that a lot of institutional investors got no shares 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.600 in this offering, and from all accounts, there's been pretty 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.439 a lot of action amongst the retail brokers. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:51.680 You've got a little bit of the stock as well. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.520 So yeah, I didn't and see I don't know too 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.359 much about Bullish, but I was interested to read that 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.560 like across co founders and board members taking a big 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.800 chunk of the shares or have a big chunk. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.440 Yes, So from what we heard that when the shares 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:10.719 are allocated here that people had a relationship with management 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:15.240 did receive some of the shares. And that's not completely unusual. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:16.160 But often with. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.160 These hot IPOs you get management having a big say 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.159 in the allocations because they want to place the shares 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.960 with I guess, you know, people who they think will 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.159 be long term supporters of the shares or long term 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.840 supporters of the company, or you know, they may have 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.200 other reasons for giving. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:29.480 Them the stock. 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.800 But certainly in this case, that seems to be something 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.639 that sort of is you know, it's quite you know, 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.760 a big ass a major aspect of the way in 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.160 which the shares were allocated here, Brendon Bloomer. 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:42.840 Block one CEO, co founder, he's going to be the 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.600 biggest holder about thirty percent. ARC gets a cut, so 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.639 does black Rock. What's interesting, though, is to think about 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.240 how Tom Farley became the CEO. Originally, it's because he 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.040 was leading a spack, a special acquisition company that was 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.119 going to buy and merge back in the day for 0:19:58.240 --> 0:19:59.360 nine billion dollars. 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:00.840 This is a strong. 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.600