1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: As an indie musician, trying to score press coverage is 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: a huge part of the job, and I remember being 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: so stoked and so nervous for one of my band's 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: first magazine photo shoots, with a professional photographer, proper wardrobe 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: on set, an actual makeup artist and everything. I usually 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: wear a blush an eyeliner, but the makeup treatment for 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: print photography is intense. Essentially, all of your features are 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: painted over lip pencil, brow pencil, eyeshadow, highlighter. It's like 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: a very thin mask of pastes and pressed powders. You 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: can't see the makeup artist's handywork while they're at it, 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: so you're just sort of left guessing how all of 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: these colors are combining on your head. The last step 13 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: is the false eyelashes. I remember this dude carefully gluing 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: them to my eyelids. Then it was time for the 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: big reveal. I was handed a mirror, but I couldn't 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: see myself because he'd accidentally glued my eyes shot, and 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: so instead of feeling like a movie star, I felt 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: like a fetal piglet. I'm Dessa, and this is deeply human. 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: Today is about beauty and ethics. And the intersection between 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: them stuff. I've personally spent a lot of time thinking 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: about why is beautification so ethically fraught. Celebrities take heat 22 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: for getting botox or lip fillers. Most of us have, 23 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: at some time or another been shamed for trying too 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: hard make up with the jim that's a hot button one, 25 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: or for not trying hard enough your teenage self getting 26 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: pestered into a haircut. Maybe plastic surgery is particularly likely 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: to evoke moral feelings, so let's start there. We begin 28 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: with a fire in the nineteen sixties. There was a 29 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: big circus fire where lots of lots of people died, 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of burned victims, hundreds of 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: burned victims in the city of Nidoi, which across the 32 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: bay from me, the Genneiro, And it was just like 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: a big tragedy. It hit every single news headline. Mbers 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: Alvaro Harin is a professor of anthropology at College of 35 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: the Holy Cross in Massachusetts. He's also author of The 36 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: Biopolitics of Beauty, which includes the story of the circus 37 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: fire and a man named Dr Evil Beat. He was 38 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: relatively young at the time he had to us return 39 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: from getting his medical degree, he had become specialized in 40 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: plastic surgery in Europe. Plastic surgery as we know it 41 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: developed in Europe to treat survivors of the world wars. 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: Shraplow wounds and trench warfare had created devastating facial injuries. 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: Plastic surgery has a deep tie to those victims of war, right, 44 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: And there was this sounds of light, we need to 45 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: help these people. With his foreign training, Dr Evil Beat 46 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: was a godsend. In the wake of the fire, he 47 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: treated the burn victims, many of whom were children, pro bono. 48 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: He started a clinic to train others surgeons and his techniques, 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: and Evil became a national hero. Brazil is now a 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: beauty capital of the world, performing sky high numbers of 51 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: plastic surgeries every year. Right, so if you go to 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: and you say, almost everybody knows what he is, right, really, 53 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: very very f Plastic surgery started as morally unassailable. Surgeons 54 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: were healers, treating people disfigured by violence and trauma, which 55 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: is not how we think about plastic surgery now. Being 56 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: I always kind of scrolling through Instagram, and it was 57 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: just something that I started noticing that a lot of 58 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: the women I was seeing on my Explore page and 59 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: who are getting a lot of likes and a lot 60 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: of hard eye emojis and a lot of praise for 61 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: their looks. Kind of all looks the same. That is 62 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: Kelly McGuinty, who recently published her masters thesis on what's 63 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: called Instagram face, a term popularized by writer you A. 64 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: Tolentino in an article for The New Yorker. In short, 65 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Instagram face is a small nose with no bumps, full lips, 66 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: a sharp jawline, no double chin, high defined cheekbones, uplifted 67 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: cat like eyes and uplifted arched eyebrows and taught skin 68 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: like lifted and taught like you walked through a wind 69 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: tunnel and got stuck. If you know the platform, you 70 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: know the look. I think Bella Hadid, Chrissy Teagan, em Rata, 71 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: Kylie Jenner, and Kelly has collected some hard data on 72 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: the phenomenon. I took the top fifty most followed models 73 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and I did a coding process where I 74 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: said yes or no, do they have this feature that 75 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: aligns with Instagram face. Almost all of those top fifty 76 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: female faces had the prized features of Instagram face. There 77 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: was a singular aesthetic to which all of these accounts 78 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: seemed magnetized. And this this isn't just a certain sort 79 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: of face being made popular by social media. It's about 80 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: social media making new faces. So this specific look Instagram 81 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: face is largely only attainable through cosmetic interventions like botox, fillers, 82 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: things of that sort. Some people are, of course born 83 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: with it, but it's really hard to tell who. Botox, 84 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: botch a line and toxin A is one of the 85 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: most poisonous biological substances known to science. It's sometimes called 86 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: the miracle poison, and when injected in really small doses, 87 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: it paralyzes facial muscles to smooth out wrinkles. You can 88 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: use it under the tip of your nose to lift it. 89 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: If you have kind of a downturn nose. You can 90 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: now get a little bit of botox injected there, and 91 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: I think they call it a tinker bell tip lift. 92 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: That's what they call it in their advertising. Plastic surgery 93 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: clinics leverage the looks of famous face is a bunch 94 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: of them offer Kylie packages, a suite of procedures to 95 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: help you look more like Kylie Jenner, who has upwards 96 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: of three million followers on Instagram, and for the record, 97 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: has publicly discussed getting lip fillers. Kelly herself wasn't immune 98 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: to the appeal of all those marketing promises. All of 99 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: us have probably wished we saw something different in the mirror. 100 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: I got lip fillers a couple of years ago under 101 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: the same kind of delusion that I didn't think I 102 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: was pretty. I thought having fullor lips would make me 103 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: pretty and would make me happy and make people like me. 104 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: Um it didn't and actually ended up happening. Is I 105 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: just found something else about myself I didn't like and 106 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: wanted to fix that too. There's also a racial subtext 107 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: to this entire conversation. It's like if colonization had a 108 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: face that said it would be in Instagram. Power From 109 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: a white woman, that is writer and thinker Cecily Bowen, 110 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: who goes by Bad Fat Black Girl online, she explains 111 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: that our standards of beauty are inherently racialized. Lighter skin, 112 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: certain hair textures as in like looser curls and patterns, 113 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: and prioritize over other ones than her noses. For example, 114 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: I think is one example of a physical feature that 115 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: is often associated with whiteness and thus more desirable. It's 116 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: like no one is ever getting a nose job to 117 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: make their nose fuller or bigger. Our looks can affect 118 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: big life outcomes. So beauty isn't just a frivolous concern 119 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: When people talk about, for example, pretty privilege, that is 120 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: a real thing. You know. There's research that shows that 121 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: people who are perceived as more you know, traditionally attractive, 122 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: are more likely to be hired for jobs, are more 123 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: likely to make more money as they go through their lives, 124 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: are more likely they have different access to different things. 125 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: They're less likely to be profiled at a store or 126 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: treat it poorly by a law enforcement officer. Note the 127 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: transitivity here. Privilege comes from beauty, and beauty comes from 128 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: proximity to white features. On a trip to India in 129 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: my twenties, I remember seeing an ad on the side 130 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: of a building. The woman with a zipper running down 131 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: the center of her face. She was being unzipped to 132 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: reveal a paler version of herself to sell skin bleach. 133 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: My cosmetic brand that made the stuff was a big 134 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: name when I probably patronized back home in parts of Asia, 135 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: the preference for fair skin predates colonial influence, but this 136 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: overt nous and this shamelessness of it felt very new 137 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: to me. Some moral objections to cosmetic interventions start here. 138 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: People have argued that straightening afro tech stred hair is 139 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: a concession to standards of beauty that prize whiteness. The 140 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: same goes for double eyelid surgery, which is sometimes given 141 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: us a gift to teenagers in South Korea, a surgery 142 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: that critics say creates a more western looking eye. Ditto 143 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: for laser procedures that turn brown eyes blue. Beauty does 144 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: not stay in its lane the cosmetic style. It pervades 145 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: all of our conversations. I don't think that we can 146 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: detach beauty from any public facing aspect of culture, because 147 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: beauty and desirability politics are always at play in terms 148 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: of who we allow to be in the front. People 149 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: criticize folks who get plastic surgery right as being like 150 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: vain or you know. The shallow vanity is probably the 151 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: most common moral charge leveled against beautification. People are self 152 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: absorbed if they spend too much time or too much 153 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: money on their appearance, and if they're getting surgery, then 154 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: they're shouldering real health risks. To proof positive that they 155 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: care way too much about how they look, and there 156 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: are risks, particularly with the procedure and vogue known as 157 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: the BBL. A Brazilian butt lift is essentially a procedure 158 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: where fat light bol is usually done on a different 159 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: area of the body, so it can be either the abdomen, 160 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: the back, or even the arms of the thighs, and 161 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: then that fat is essentially moved around and placed in 162 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: the hip and blood areas, and so it gives you 163 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: more of like a coke bottle shape and just you know, 164 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: some some cakes back there. So we are back to Brazil. 165 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: Let's rejoin Dr Evil Pani, rising star in the wake 166 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: of the Circus fire. Voky was very savvy and yeah, 167 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: he wrote this book The Right to Beauty that was 168 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: incredibly well received and people to this day use the 169 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: term like plastic surgery patients that I talked to the 170 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: pop hospans yet they say, yeah, we have the right 171 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: to beauty because of up tank. Right. He told us 172 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: that the right to be beautiful, it is important and 173 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: we need to offer to everybody. Evil positioned beauty is 174 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: a class issue, successfully arguing that public hospitals should offer 175 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: plastic surgery for cheap or even free for the Brazilian 176 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: working class. They see them as amazing humanitarians that are 177 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: offering beauty to the poor and that arelifting entire populations 178 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: that would otherwise be downtrodden because they're not beautiful, because 179 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the Brazilians belief that beauty is important. It was unfair, 180 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: said Evil, that only the rich could afford his techniques 181 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: a tummy tuck, say, with a scar low enough to 182 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: be hidden in a bikini bottom. Plastic surgery wasn't only 183 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: a treatment for people disfigured by accidents or battle. It 184 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: was also, to use his phrase, for those betrayed by nature. 185 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like some of the conversations that you 186 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: had with the recipients of surgical procedures like um. A 187 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: teenage girl who was interested in having breast augmentation felt 188 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: a lot better about the green light that she got 189 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: from her doctor. If she had like a medicalized diagnosis 190 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: of small breastedness. It justified it in her eyes and 191 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: particularly the guys of her mom, that this was a 192 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: condition right, That she had an abnormality hypotrophy of the 193 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: mammary glance, which really just means you have small breasts. 194 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: Medicalizing a condition strengthened the argument that the state should 195 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: pay for it and distanced patients from any suggestion of vanity. 196 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: A formal diagnosis clearly warranted intervention. This motive thinking essentially 197 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: pathologized ugliness. It blurs the line between reconstructive surgery and 198 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: cosmetic procedures, implies that you can be injured not just 199 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: by shrapnel, but by your own genes. I talked about 200 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: us cosmetic citizenship. They think that they can only belong 201 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,599 Speaker 1: in the resilientation if they're beautiful. I had talked to 202 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: a surgeon that had surgery on his own wife and 203 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: his own mother. You know, they're they're they're strange creatures 204 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: in the sense that they really normalize it for everybody. 205 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm trying to not have a moral reaction in my 206 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: investigative conversation about moral reactions, but I'm making a face 207 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: that's intense A difficult entanglements of instinct, intellect, and ethics 208 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: call for a particular sort of professional. What we need 209 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: is a philosopher. My name is Claire Chambers and I'm 210 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: a professor of political philosophy at the University of Cambridge. 211 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: Isn't beauty like definitionally necessarily non inclusive, that like, not 212 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: everybody can be it in the same way that like 213 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: the word beautiful functions the way that the word tall functions. 214 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: It's in comparison to a collective average. But then there 215 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: should be no shame and not being beautiful, right, So 216 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: if beauty was just one way of succeeding or one 217 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: way of excelling amongst others, then that might be fine 218 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: to say that, you know, not everybody has to be beautiful. 219 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: But that's not generally how we use it. It's a 220 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: value that really takes on much more weight than it should. 221 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: Nobody's exempt, but the own is to be beautiful ways 222 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: more heavily on some than others. Typically, women and girls 223 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: are expected to be beautiful to a higher sort of 224 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: standard of beauty than men and boys. Men conversely, can 225 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: be stigmatized for being too image conscious, for preening or 226 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: wearing guyliner. I'll note here, though, that these gendered norms 227 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: have not always been so. In other times and places, 228 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: beautification was more of the domain of dudes. Claire recently 229 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: wrote a book It's called Intact, A Defense of the 230 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: Unmodified Body. You mentioned a procedure that I've never heard 231 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: of in your book. What is a vampire facial? Basically, 232 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: a vampire facial is when you have a facial which 233 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: injects into your face platelets that are extracted from your 234 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: own blood, hence the vampire idea. And I it's supposed 235 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: to do something sort of magical to the texture of 236 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: your skin. Because there's all these kinds of really quite 237 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: gruesome proceiegures that have been all the time for beauty. 238 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: Japanese women have blackened their teeth, Dino's flattened their foreheads, 239 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: Victorian ladies self administered poisons to dilate their eyes. But 240 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: there's no need to venture to the extremes for ethical complexities. 241 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: Consider the standard issue department store cosmetic counter. In the 242 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, when makeup really took off in the US, 243 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: Revalon was marketing cosmetics as Hope in a jar. Makeup, 244 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: which is a product designed to change the way you look, 245 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: is often marketed for its undetectability. People won't know you're 246 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: wearing it. It'll seem natural. We'll use the word natural 247 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: usually to refer to things that we want to say, 248 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: Ah good, it feels like my face is allowed to 249 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: look like, it's not wearing makeup, but it's just not 250 00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: allowed to look like my face, right, exactly, It's exactly it. Yeah, 251 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: and if they're doing it successfully, and that we can't 252 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: tell their wearing makeup, right, what the rest of us 253 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: looking at them think is Wow, those other women's faces 254 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: naturally don't have whatever it might be, dark circles, red patches, 255 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: whatever the thing is that you're you're concerned about. So 256 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: other women just look so much better than me, Naturally, 257 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: my face must be really bad. I once did a 258 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: photo shoot for a cosmetic line, a pretty awesome one. 259 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm out Let's run independently and cruelty free, and helped 260 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: to donate proceeds to a charity that supports women's literacy. 261 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: And I remember receiving the first round of images, intensing 262 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: they had been noticeably airbrushed since I was a kid. 263 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: The tear trops beneath my eyes have been dark, sort 264 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: of sunken. But the woman in the picture was smooth 265 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: and bright. She looked like me, but well, prettier, fresh faced, 266 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: not so tired. The thing is, I do look tired. 267 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: I am, in fact tired, and I felt guilty about 268 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: suggesting otherwise I asked that the effect be dialed back, 269 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: but I admit I didn't push to remove it all together. 270 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: With daily wear makeup, most of us are cautious not 271 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: to overcorrect to the point of conspicuousness. Looking totally fake 272 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: would be bad, not just undesirable, but like morally bad. 273 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: Consider your own reaction to seeing someone selfie that's been 274 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: obviously processed by a filter. Yeah, that's not even her 275 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: real phase. It feels like a deception. But maybe makeup 276 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: is just an Instagram filter you wear on the skin, 277 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: and botox is just to filter that you were beneath it. 278 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,719 Speaker 1: It almost feels like like cheating. So there are times 279 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: when we think that what the body needs is it 280 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: needs effort, right, what is virtuous is to spend effort 281 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: on our bodies, And so maybe it's something like liposuction 282 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: looks like we haven't spent enough effort or the right 283 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: kind of effort. It's like, if you get plastic surgery, 284 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: you're not earning beauty the way that you're supposed to. 285 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: But I mean, it doesn't really best of class greets 286 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: me because undergoing surgery right is a huge effort. In 287 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: many ways, we should not be creating a society where 288 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: what are the huge sources of anxiety for people is 289 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: that we don't look good enough, we don't look acceptable. 290 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: If you've watched more than like twenty minutes of television, 291 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: you've probably seen beauty products marketed as self esteem builders. 292 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: They bring out our best selves, help us walk tall 293 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: while striding into boardrooms in slow motion. Kelly, who researched 294 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: Instagram face, isn't convinced. I've gotta say I'm not really either. 295 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: For me, I think that feeling empowering and being empowering 296 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: are two different things. This equivalence of beauty and power 297 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: is predicated on some pretty garbage ideas. I think it 298 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: has origins to the history of how women have been 299 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: placed as objects of desire for men self. For example, 300 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: if we're sitting in a restaurant, we begin to picture 301 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: what we look like sitting in that restaurant. We're taking 302 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: on this outside gays and imposing it on ourselves. This 303 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: is what's called the male gaze. But now at the 304 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: same time, it's not just men perpetuating it. It's women too. 305 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: It's just thinking of yourself as a collection of parts 306 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: that you can use. You know, your consumer power to 307 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: buy and to change rather than thinking of yourself as 308 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: a whole, living person. So if you're gonna go tinkerball 309 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: for Instagram if it gives you confidence, like, okay, that's fine, 310 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: but just don't claim it as this sort of empowered 311 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: feminist act. We're on some tricky philosophical ground here, so 312 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to baby step it. If feminism is a 313 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: movement that fights for women's rights to lead self determined lives, 314 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: to expand their choices, does it necessarily follow that any 315 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 1: choice a woman makes is an exercise of feminism? Or 316 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: can women make choices that, even if they benefit them personally, 317 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: run opposite to feminist values? Does participating in beauty culture 318 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: help me as an individual but also perpetuate lousy ideas 319 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: that hamstring women generally? And then on the flip side, 320 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: isn't criticizing a woman's choice, particularly as it relates to 321 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: her own body like quintessentially anti feminist? The people you've 322 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: heard here don't seem interested in judging women on their 323 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: personal choices, but that doesn't mean they're not critical of 324 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: the culture that incentivizes them. Growing older for women is 325 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: a particular challenge to borrow a Brazilian phrase men age, 326 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: but women decay, you know or rocked Back to Alvaro 327 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: Harim Brazil and the strange story of Dr Evil. He 328 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: had kind of a weird eric about it. He argued 329 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: that it would somehow if you gave plastic surgery to 330 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: people that were criminals. He had this kind of criminological argument, 331 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 1: it would somehow help them become better people. The halo 332 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: effect is our propensity to assume that people with one 333 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: sort of positive trait, like good looks, have all sorts 334 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: of other virtues too. And Evil here seems to be 335 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: suggesting that a halo can be surgically sown in place. 336 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: Brazil also conceives of plastic surgery is self care. It 337 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: sort of understood us upkeep of the body right. People 338 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: told me it's like, I mean, brushing your teeth. You know, 339 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: it's a hygiene. Why wouldn't you get a facelift after 340 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: you turn fifty? The legacy of Dr Evil is complicated. 341 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: Remember talking to a nurse at the Evil Patanie Institute, 342 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: and she was very upset because she said, when I 343 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: began working here twenty years ago, it was mostly reconstructive, 344 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: was mostly reparative, and now it's mostly aesthetic and I 345 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: don't understand. And she was upset that the fact that 346 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: like a job that she really was proud to be 347 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: part of has become something very different. It can be 348 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: easy to judge the culture of invasive, painful, Sir Trees, 349 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: but I think any of us in that position would 350 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: probably say yes to it. We get to say no 351 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: because we have certain privileges to say no to those 352 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: kind of things and to be more critical of it. 353 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: So patients saw it as It's interesting they were so 354 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: critical of what they called the dictatorship of beauty. Some 355 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: people use that term at the same time that they 356 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: were acquiescing to participate in it. In my twenties, back 357 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: from India, I wanted to reject beauty culture, feminine ideals, 358 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: to go hardline aesthetic, explaining it's my mom. I told her, 359 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: beauty has nothing to do with a person's character and 360 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: it's fleeting anyway. It's foolish to get too attached. Your 361 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: voice is beautiful, my mom said, you don't get to 362 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: keep that forever, either, So what you shouldn't sing. As 363 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: my musical career progressed, photo shoots became commonplace, and I've 364 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: walked an uneasy line. It's fun to the glamorous, but 365 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: it's also like a drug that's too good to use 366 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: too often. And I've made these little rules, like I'm 367 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: allowed to wear blush every day, but not foundation. If 368 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: I post a flattering, dulled up picture, I've got to 369 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: post another planer one just to keep one foot on 370 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: solid ground. These rules are getting harder to follow as 371 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: I grow older. I asked cecily A k a bad 372 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: fat black girl about her regimen. I absolutely like I 373 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: wear makeup. I give myself a little bit of contour, 374 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: do my eyebrows almost religiously every day so that they 375 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: look more neat. I wear about a hundred different hairstyles 376 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: per year. I hey, whether they're wigs, whether their extensions, 377 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: whether they're you know, whether they're crochet. You know. So 378 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: like I'm a hundred percent participating a man, Is there 379 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: any part of you that resonates with people who would 380 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: have the concern that's like, um man, we are feeding 381 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: into a capitalist system that just asked us to spend 382 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: a lot of money on doing this right that like 383 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: thrives off a hundred percent. I just dropped five hundred 384 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: dollars during the safora sale. Part of me thinks about like, um, 385 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: like traffic, that's something that we all complain about, but 386 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: we all are it too, And I feel like culture 387 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: is sometimes it's like it's very difficult to completely divorce 388 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: from personal choices because it's personal choices and mass that 389 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 1: help create culture. Yes, everyone hates traffic, but everyone is 390 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: Traffic is a h true, but we are also talking 391 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: about people still having to get where they need to go, 392 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: and so who built the road to only have three 393 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: lines instead of seven which created a floor traffic that 394 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: is now terrible for everyone. You get what I'm saying. 395 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: Who decides what is view full and what is not 396 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: and what people deserve who are beautiful and what people 397 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: who are beautiful don't deserve. It will always come back 398 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: to that. For me, we love beauty, but we dried vanity. 399 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: Many of us think that beauty is over indexed, but 400 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: you're still not supposed to cheat that broken game, like 401 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: lunges are okay and light bulb is not. Natural is 402 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: better than the artificial, but it's hard to know where 403 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: to draw the line between them. Participating in beauty culture 404 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: only makes it worse. The whole thing balanced on gross 405 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: racial ideas, and yet non participation seems kind of futile. 406 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: Showing a bare face at the office might just elicit 407 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: concern from your colleagues who keep asking if you're under 408 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: the weather. Here are a few lyrics from a song 409 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: I wrote while ruminating on this stuff, with a little 410 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: radio in it. I think beauty muck to suck. It's 411 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: like sugar in the natural world. We never get this much, 412 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: and so the appetite is bottom. Let's call Mabeline anonymous 413 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: by narcissists. Of all of us, we never get enow, 414 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: but still we get into the car because we've got 415 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: someplace to be. So check your lashes in the mirror 416 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: and you turn the engine over. Deeply Human is a 417 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: BBC World service in American public media co production with 418 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: I Heart Media, and it's hosted by Medessa. Find me 419 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: online at Dessa on Instagram and Dussa Darling on Twitter. 420 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: Next time on Deeply Human. If sleep is so important 421 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: to our health and well being, then why does so 422 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: many of us struggle to go down and stay down 423 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: for a full night of rest. Join Medessa and asking 424 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: why do we suck? It's sleeping