WEBVTT - Mind Control, Part 2 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.080 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:14.680 Forward Thinking. Hey, they're welcome to Forward Thinking, the podcast 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.360 that looks at the future and says they're terribly, terribly, 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:22.400 terribly moody of human behavior. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.080 Joe McCormick, and today we are embarking on part two 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.560 of a two part podcast. So if you have not 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.920 heard Part one, the one that came out just previous 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:33.920 to this one, you should probably go back and listen 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.360 to that first, because that was part one of our 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.600 podcast about mind control, right, and that one we really 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.920 focused on propaganda and the way of presenting information, not 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.680 just propaganda but also advertising, and how the presentation of 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:55.640 information can help at least nudge behavior in the way 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.320 that you might want it to go. Absolutely, although in 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.440 the past all of that was done via traditional media 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.400 as we would call it today, Uh, print and cartoons 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.119 and movies and television stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, and 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.280 so it was it was true done by traditional media. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:15.960 It was also done i think a lot of times 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.679 with a kind of more intuitive methodology, though you certainly 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.160 had people like Edward Burnet's who we talked about in 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.120 the last episode, who applied some kind of scientific ways 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.399 of studying how to change people's minds on mass But 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.360 today we want to talk about a more more modern, 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:39.319 scientific technological approach to the ways different people are looking 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:44.560 at changing human thought and behavior and whether that's ever 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.720 the right thing to do, whether and to what extent 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.880 it's possible to do. So, Yeah, what's going on today 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.440 in the world of changing how people think and behave. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.320 And you know, there are a lot of different reasons 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.200 you might want to to do this right, There might 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.880 be reasons to try and you're trying to find the 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.559 best way, to say, design a community so that people 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.480 are generally happy there. It doesn't necessarily have to be 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.640 anything kind of sinister going on, although that also is 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.480 something we always have to keep in mind because you're 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:21.840 talking about manipulating human behavior. And also it could easily 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.920 be something that we seek out for ourselves, something that 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.600 we want to change one of the behaviors we have, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:32.000 either enhance something that we already do or stop doing 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.200 something that we don't want to do anymore. Uh, And 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.320 then you wouldn't argue that it was sinister. It might 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.160 be seen under the umbrella of self improvement, but those 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:46.359 same principles might be applied to a more broad audience 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.200 than just a one on one kind of thing. Sure, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.520 I mean, there are a million different ways we try 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.960 to influence the ways other people think and behave, and 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.200 not all of them are bad, certainly, I mean you 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.920 have advertiser and propagandas people trying to support their own 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.520 interests by working on your brain. But then there's also, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.880 like I mean, just think about every relationship you have 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.960 with people that you love and care about. You do 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.480 in those relationships do some work trying to make sure 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.120 that those people keep liking you well. Sure, even you know, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:25.600 displayed behaviors that are important to you, like uh, not 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.359 hooking themselves on meth, or like actually doing the dishes 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:36.760 or taking you out to dinner. Those are the three 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.480 things that I look for in all of my relationships. Dinner, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.320 no meth. And I was gonna see, I was gonna 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.320 say that at our at our old office location, I 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.440 would occasionally walk across the street and purchase a dozen 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.200 or so miniature cupcakes and then distributing about the office. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.640 Whenever I felt that public opinion of Jonathan Strickland was 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.240 falling below the necessary threshold of a crude form of mind. 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.760 If that was delicious propaganda problematic. Now that we have 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.320 moved our office and we're no longer close to Highland 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.960 Bakery grocery right across the grocery, it's on a bakery. 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.600 They have to bakery in the grocery anyway. So yeah, 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.080 so today I think we wanted to look at some 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.599 of the modern methods. One of the first things that 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:22.640 came up. I had never heard of this before we 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.039 started doing research for this episode. But it's a concept 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:31.039 known as persuasive technology. And that's the concept of using technology, 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.280 be it be it traditional media or the internets or gadgets, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.200 or user experience within applications. Uh, and all of that 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.480 kind of stuff too. And I quote here change users 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.479 attitudes or behaviors through persuasion and social influence, but not 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.000 through corrosion or deception. That is a quote from a 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.680 call for papers from conference on Persuasive Technologies. Okay, so 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.120 it's not trying to deceive you or or bully you 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.359 or something like that, but methetically, but it is trying 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.760 to use these methods to affect the way your brain works, 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.520 change your habits or your opinions or your emotion and 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.159 the study of computers specifically as persuasive technology was basically 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.840 pioneered by one B. J. Fogg, And I love that 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.520 Fogg is the last name of a dude who's clarifying 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:26.680 things for all of us. So sure, sure, uh no, no, no, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.839 that's completely scientifically accurate. Yeah, it is Fog with two cheese, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.760 but I'm just saying. Um. He in fact coined a 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.839 term for the study of computers as persuasive technology, which 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.320 is captology, and founded a persuasive Tech lab at Stanford 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.760 way back and from the website of that lab, and 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.599 this sounds like it could have come from one of 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.040 the science fiction novels we talked about in our first 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.000 episode on this subject. Uh that it says the best 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.520 design solutions today change human behavior. Yet despite decades of research, 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.599 challenges remain for people who designed to influence. And first 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.440 persuasion seems a dirty word. It shouldn't be. We should 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.040 now embrace that we're in the business of behavior change. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.800 Next problem, conceptual confusion. The landscape of persuasion can be disorienting, 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.360 muddied by impractical theories and over hyped techniques. Are new 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.600 work provides a clear view of behavior change, including language 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.600 that is simple yet accurate. So uh again, like the 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.039 messaging here seems like that kind of like you could 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.640 easily apply kind of a sinister undertone, but it's not. 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.760 It's definitely not, because the word persuasion definitely has, you know, 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.239 its own baggage that that we associate with that word. 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.560 Like I said earlier, we're all trying to persuade in 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.960 various ways all the time. Now I went ahead and 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.440 search through this website and played around with stuff, and honestly, 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.920 I think that the approach is kind of cool. They've 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:55.440 identified sort of a streamlined way of identifying behaviors that 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.560 either you want to encourage or discourage, and how to 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.920 go about doing that, whether it is something you are 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.080 trying to do on a personal goal level, like you know, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.800 the example they use often is exercise more, or if 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.160 it's something that you want to do. When you are 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.120 designing a product and you want people to use the 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.200 product and to gain satisfaction from that product, you want 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.440 to make sure you've designed it and marketed it properly 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.680 so that people when they purchase it are happy with 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.000 that because word of mouth is going to get you 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.800 more sales, and also just generally like, if you have 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.400 a goal that your product is supposed to do a thing, 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:34.800 here are the steps you need to make sure you 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.440 follow in order for it to actually do that thing. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.320 So I think in the terms of something like the 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.040 we uh game console, that was one of those things 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.040 that that took off really quickly, and I think part 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.480 of it was that Nintendo had done such a great 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:54.280 job of presenting it as an alternative to the consoles 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.280 that were putting in a lot of uh focus on 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.280 high end graphics and high and uh uh you know 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.440 processing power. Yeah, those things were seen as sort of 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.840 like the Hot Rods for gamers, whereas the WE became 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.520 something for your family. Yeah, that was exactly how they 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.120 positioned themselves, and it worked. Like Gangbusters. You couldn't find 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.760 a WEE for the longest time. Now you could look 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.440 at Nintendo and say, well, the WE eventually fell out 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.720 a favor, but I would argue that was not because 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.120 the way they positioned themselves, but rather that there was 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.680 a lack of uh supportive games there that people wanted 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.400 to continue playing, and that ultimately there weren't enough people 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.240 who were leveraging the control system for the Wii from 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.600 a developer standpoint, probably because it's pretty difficult to develop 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.559 for that kind of thing. Uh. And that was the downfall, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.400 not the initial positioning, which worked great at any rate. 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:51.560 The Persuasive Technologies Lab had created a roadmap called the 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.600 Behavior Wizard. Yeah. I think of it kind of like 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.800 those Microsoft wizards, Like I see here making a document. Uh, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.640 clipping would pop up, but don't know, it's not nearly No, 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.679 clippy does not pop up. Wouldn't it be great if 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.360 you had a clippy for your brain? Though? Look, I 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:13.520 already hate myself enough, dude, like like a cortex like Cordy. Yeah, 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.200 I see that you're trying to change your behaviors. I 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.440 think I would just I would just have a reptile 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:24.959 brain pop up and say, um, at any rate, yes, 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.240 it would definitely be up there. So here's how b J. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:33.280 Fogg says this persuasive technology, the captology, can be effective. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.760 How it actually works. Um. First, he says that you 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.440 have to keep three things really in mind whenever you 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.600 are trying to change behaviors. And the first is something 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.200 I touched on in our previous episode. That simplicity is 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.319 important when you design systems meant to change behavior because 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.160 human beings are in general lazy. So you've got to 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.720 make it easy to do if you if you don't 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:58.600 make it, if it takes effort to do, the more 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.520 effort it takes, the us likely that behavior is going 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.079 to change. And this isn't like an insult to us. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.040 I mean, another way to phrase human beings are lazy 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:13.160 would be to say you don't want to waste your time. Yeah. Again, 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.680 like if you say, the harder something is, the more 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.840 you have to invest in order to really change that behavior. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.280 So the goal is make it as easy as possible. Uh. 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.600 And the easier you make it, the more likely change 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.000 will actually happen. So that's another way of looking at it. 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.200 But but they summoned up by saying you guys are lazy. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.120 The second thing to keep in mind is that you 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.480 should employ triggers, which are prompts or cues or calls 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.840 to action, that kind of thing. And Dr Fogg's behavior 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:43.599 model identifies three types of triggers. You have facilitators, sparks, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.400 and signals, and the difference between the types fall. You 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.240 are great, right, they fall. The differences fall on their 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.280 scale of motivation. Versus ability. So motivation is the will 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.880 to do something and ability is the skill to do 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.160 that thing. Uh. And he also points out that daily 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.760 habits are the most powerful of all behaviors and only 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.400 by understanding those can you ever hope to change them 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.679 because it requires a long term approach to behavioral change 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:14.480 and a lot of different approaches to to get to 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.120 to alter long term behaviors don't take that into account. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.120 So an example of this might be you want to 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.360 stop smoking, and a lot of approaches may have it 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.600 be kind of a uh, quit and you're done sort 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.920 of thing, but that means you end up very often 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.840 going back to that habit after some given amount of time, 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.600 and that you really have to invest in this long 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.920 term view if you want to change a daily habit. Okay, 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.680 where does Clippy come in? Clippy does not come in 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.040 at all. You spoke of the behavior wizards, yes, but 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.160 Clippy is not a part of the behavior Wizard. Clippy 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.960 is probably a great way of convincing you not to 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.440 use that version of Microsoft Office. So that was the 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:59.520 intended purpose then success, right, So the the behavior Wizard 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.640 itself is map that guides you into ways to change behaviors. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.160 And I actually went ahead and walk through this once 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.360 just to see how it would work out. And I 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.679 used to an example of exercise for myself. Uh. And 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.680 it gives you a very simple choice at the very beginning, 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.040 which is do you want to stop or decrease a 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.520 particular behavior or do you want to start or increase 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.840 a behavior? And I said I wanted to start or 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.040 increase because I want to exercise more and more frequently. 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.040 So after choosing start, I'm given three options, which is 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.280 to restart a familiar behavior, so something I used to 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.800 do but no longer, do start a brand new behavior, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:42.080 or increase in existing behavior. So I'm already walking to work, uh, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.400 to and from work, that's about six miles every day, 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.559 and I say I want to increase this behavior because 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.520 while walking is good, I'm not really doing any other exercise. Uh. Next, 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.560 it's asking me to define a time frame of how 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.199 long I want this behavior to go on. Um, I'm 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.920 not I don't actually have to say what the behavior 0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:01.720 is at any point. By the way, you can just 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.200 keep that in your mind whatever it may be. So 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.079 in this case, I'm asked to define it as either 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.079 a one time thing, so I need to do this 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.000 the one and only time and then I'm done, or 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.040 for a period of time, like you know, a certain 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.640 set of months or years or whatever, working up to 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.960 your wedding or swimsuit season or something right right where 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.480 there is a definitive endpoint, or just from now on. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.160 Now I want to do from now on because I 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.120 want to have a healthy lifestyle until I'm no longer living. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.040 So I was why I would choose that one. After 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.520 you're no longer living, it's going to be freedo's and 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.000 pig skins forever. I guess technically I could have said 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.559 for a period of time, that time being when I'm 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.800 no longer breathing, but you know whatever for now on. 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.920 So next, that gives me a pathway to follow, and 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.240 they color code their pathways. It put me on the 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.360 purple path because I wish to create a long term 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.760 increase in an existing behavior. So the other pathways included 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.679 green which is to do a new behavior, Blue to 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.160 do a familiar behavior that you have stopped doing, Gray 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.960 path which was to decrease a behavior, or Black path 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.560 which is to completely stop a behavior. And each path 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.880 has its own requirements to achieve success. So the purple 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.400 path requires me to change at least one element from 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.600 the FOG behavioral model, and here are the three elements 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.240 they list. Increase the number of triggers that lead to 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.640 a desirable behavior. So, in whichever format of those triggers 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:33.040 I would use, those two help encourage me to pursue 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.920 this enhance my ability to perform that behavior. In other words, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.600 make it easier for me to do whatever that thing is. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.120 This might involve looking for a gym that's really close 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.920 to my house, so it makes it a lot easier 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:46.520 for me to get there and do this sort of thing. 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.760 Or amplify the motivation for doing the behavior with intrinsic 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:55.960 and extrinsic motivators. So intrinsic obviously would be things within myself. Extrinsic, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.720 I'd be telling my friends, Hey, could you remind me 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.120 to stop being such a you know, lazy fat I, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.920 And then that would help me motivate me to go 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.960 and decrease my lazy fat kindness. For example, making a 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.880 pact amongst your friends, like, hey, the next time that 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.280 we get together and watch some movies, let's all bring 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:21.520 vegetables instead of or even I have several friends we 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:28.640 eat nothing the Sorry, it's fine, I've got I've got 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:33.240 several friends who just uh this past weekend. No, they 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.040 all participated in a color run, so you know, it's 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.720 a fun group event where they're all exercising. I did 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.760 not participate in this, although I did do quite a 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.880 bit of walking this past weekend. But this would be 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.600 an example of something that could be an extrinsic motivator. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.000 It's the participation of a social event that is completely 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.520 centered around what I want to do, in this case exercise. 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.400 So none of this is is sinister. This is all 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.600 just the is the way kind of setting yourself up 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.440 for success. Right. So, once upon a time, the Persuasive 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.360 Technology Lab sold resource guides to help people follow those pathways. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.400 But as of now they say, well, the lab guides 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.360 were created in and they weren't really there. They haven't 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.560 been updated in a while, so we're no longer selling them. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.640 If you are interested in this, you can actually contact 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.920 them and explain what the behavior is you're trying to 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.960 either increase or decrease, or start or finish or whatever, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.400 and the Lab may be able to share with you 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.640 one of the guides that would be applicable to that 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.920 they might not, but they may. So this is interesting 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:44.160 because this seems largely, as you've described it, a sort 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:48.080 of a self applied and self motivated way of changing 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.960 thoughts and behavior, changing behaviors. Um. And I wonder how 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.880 well techniques like this, or even other techniques in the 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.560 persuasive technology field could be applied to others, which is 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.520 what we think of more often in the mind control domain. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.720 Well and even in this case, well, whereas I was 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.680 using an example that was very much self Uh, if 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.720 you were using the same general kind of approach while 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.199 designing whatever it is you are creating in order to 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.000 put it forth into the public, then the ideas that 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.639 you would follow the same general pathway. You know, you 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.359 would identify what it is your product is trying to do, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.959 whether it's trying to enhance a particular behavior or or 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.520 discourage it or whatever, and make sure that your design 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.160 falls in line with the same sort of approach. Right. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:42.159 For example, let's say that you're creating an app. Uh, 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.680 maybe that does motivate people to to get fit, Yeah, 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.479 like like couch to five K Sure sure? Uh. You know, 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:54.840 if if your app has really bad design, um, like 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:59.400 it's difficult to use then if it's not using appropriate triggers, right, right, 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.879 then it's going to be successful in helping people do 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.840 this thing get couched five K and ultimately people won't 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.280 use it, which means ultimately the people who developed the 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.840 app don't benefit from it. So, uh, there are ways 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.320 of using this in a broader sense. And it's while 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.760 we've I've really focused on just this lab, it goes 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.840 well beyond one lab. Oh yeah. Like, like I said 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.760 at the top of this section, there are conferences yearly, 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.280 conferences dedicated to this whole field of research, and for example, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.960 in the conferences, focus was on bringing together workers in 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:38.359 the fields of human computer interaction and persuasive technologies, with 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.640 the idea being that you know, persuasive technology researchers are 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.160 really steeped in the psychology of persuasion, which has only 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.639 recently expanded to include interactive technologies. You know, Previously it 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.080 was the print, the radio, the TV, stuff like that, 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:56.480 UM and that. You know. Meanwhile, human computer interaction researchers 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.280 are chock full of knowledge about interactive us A, bility, 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.240 UM and accessibility and experience, but might be less familiar 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:09.000 with the psychological persuasion side. UM focus was on mobile apps. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:13.520 So so, so again we can see this kind of work. Uh, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.040 this kind of this kind of research find its way 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.719 into realms that will ultimately impact us as consumers of 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.400 either products or services. Yeah. So there are I'm sure 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.600 lots of things that we could learn that would be 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.280 interesting about the way different user interfaces and and apps 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.360 and pieces of technology change our behaviors. I would love 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.119 to see just this may exist. I don't even know, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.120 like an essay on the psychological effect in the long 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.640 term of the like button? Does that do to us? 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.679 I am creeked out by the potential of that of 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.760 that essay. No, no, I would love to read it, 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.080 um or even just a just an essay on how 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.480 successful Amazon's one click button is. Oh yeah, yeah, to 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.880 to increase the behavior of impulse buying. You guys have 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.040 seen that they Amazon has launched a new thing where 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.720 for certain brands, where it's a button that you connect 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.639 to your WiFi, a physical button that you connect to 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.480 your WiFi network. So you get a little plastic piece 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.880 that's got a button on it, connected to a specific 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.800 brand for specific product, and then if you push the button, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.520 it automatically puts in an order of that product through Amazon, 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.040 and that's all you have to do. You just push 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.120 the button and then they send the thing to you. So, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.600 for example, it could be like if you bump the box, 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.200 you well, if you if you get a deluge to 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.560 two things, two things one as soon as the well 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.320 it's each for one brand, right, So there's that you're 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.480 not gonna get everything out of Amazon's catalog. But yeah, 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:45.960 you could end up with like a whole bunch of 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.840 toilet paper if you're not careful. Except that it also 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.800 has a thing where pizza rolls button is stuck in 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.960 the on position it has. It also has a thing 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.280 where you will not get um, they will not send 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.840 you another another order until the first order that you've 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.679 requested has arrived at your house. So you have you 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.760 have like, yeah, you got a little kid visiting your 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:12.320 house and they come up to the button and just 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.480 start whacking away. You're just gonna get one of those. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.359 So as long as you don't have something like a 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.320 private jet button where you're going to be like, well, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.920 I wasn't planning on buying to private jets this month, 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:25.520 you should be all right. It's not like a pet 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.600 snake button or something or it's usually it's very specific stuff, 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.760 so like paper towels or dishwasher fluid, that kind of 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.720 stuff I use so much dishwasher fluid, I need a 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:38.520 button for it. Well, it's just one of the things 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.520 where you realize when you're running low, you just press 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:42.000 the button and then you don't have to worry about 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.320 it again. And for some things like paper towels, as 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.160 a as a puppy owner, right now, that would come 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.920 in incredibly handy when I'm coming down to that last 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.560 roll and let's just hit that button right now. Okay, Well, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:59.120 we don't have to talk all user experience and technology 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.400 because in fact, there's a lot of science informing things 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.960 that go way deeper into the human experience. Uh, that 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.600 can change the ways that we think and behave. In fact, 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.280 one of the main ones that I've always heard about 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.480 in my life is color. Yeah, color psychology. Uh. I 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:19.639 don't know how big this was when you guys were kids. 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:21.320 When I was a kid, there was this whole thing 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.760 about you know, what's the best kind of way to 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:29.240 create colors in the elementary school classrooms for a learning environment, 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.040 that kind of stuff. Um, and there have been a 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.679 lot of studies on color psychology what kind of colors 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.360 might affect human behavior and decision making and our ability 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.040 to learn that sort of stuff. UH, and some of 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.480 the studies are really interesting, although there's a question about 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:50.040 how much of it um is UH is like, what 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:54.880 what are the methodologies behind it? Questionable methodology. But one 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.280 of the studies I read about that the color red 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:03.119