WEBVTT - The Muslim Next Door 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.720 Hi, Brian, Hi Katie. So this week our conversation comes 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.520 out of Austin, Texas, where we taped an episode at 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.480 south By Southwest, the annual conference and festival held every 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.320 year there. It was my first time at south By, 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.479 as people in the know apparently call it, Brian, it 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.079 was my first time too. It was very groovy and hipster, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.080 and people recognize me everywhere as the least cool person 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.680 walking around. Maybe because you still use the word groovy, Brian, 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.840 that could be a dead giveaway. Anyway, it's this very 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.519 podcast that brought us to Austin. We take today's interview 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:42.760 in front of a live audience at south By, which 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.080 was really fun, and the taping was special for another 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.320 reason to Katie, that's right, Brian, because it was aligned 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:54.520 with my national geographic series called America Inside Out. Yeah, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.920 our guest today, we're both in the episode of your 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.800 series called The Muslim next Door, which is out this week. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.440 It's really all about the challenges and opportunities that American 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.280 Muslims are facing right now. That's right, Brian. For our podcast, 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.520 we spoke with two of the people who are featured 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.320 in this episode was Jahat Ali, who was a new 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.120 York Times contributing up ed writer and has written for 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.959 a number of publications. A very very smart guy and 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:24.240 Emmy nominated producer Mona Haydar, who is a Syrian American activist, rapper, 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.200 that's right, and scholar herself. And you should google Mona's 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.640 music video which is called hijab Wrap My Hi Job. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.040 And I just read that in like the whitest way possible. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:40.600 Katie's very Katie's very addicted to it. Wrap my Job. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.679 I love it. Actually, it's a really yes. And at 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.319 a time when a proposed travel band has the support 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.240 of more than half the population, when President Trump has 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.480 pondered asking Muslim Americans to register with the federal government, 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.080 and when hate crimes against Muslim people in this country 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.200 are at an all time high, well, let's just say 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.280 we had a lot to talk about, that's right. I 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.760 thought it was a very important and enlightening conversation, if 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.040 I do say so myself, not because of me, but 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.440 because of our guests, because of me, yes, because of you, Brian. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.160 But things got a teeny bit heated when Mona made 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.760 some statements specifically about Louis farakon. Yeah, you should pay 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.320 close attention when I asked Mona and Watch about Louis Farakon, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.360 who is, of course the longtime leader of the Nation 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.840 of Islam, who's been in the news recently for his 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.880 anti Semitic remarks. We're running out of time. I wish 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.840 i'd actually push Mona a little more for refusing to 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.680 condemn Farrakon's hate speech after attacking others earlier in the 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.440 conversation for saying hateful stuff. It was very ironic, Brian, 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.680 I agree, because I think you really can't have it 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.919 both ways, and I think Wash expressed that sentiment quite well. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.120 But as always, we're curious what you think, so please 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.240 call or right in with your feedback on this episode 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.880 at nine two to four, four, six, three seven or 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.600 comments at correct podcast dot com. And now to our 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.280 conversation with Mona and Wash. Wash and I are like this. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.840 I now call him Wash instead of Wash. From the 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:11.480 Halls of south By Southwest to watch Mona. I was 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.280 going to give each of you a glowing introduction, but 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.840 I just decided why bother with that? Why don't you 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.080 introduce yourselves and let some people in the audience who 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.360 may not know you as well get to know you 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.040 a little bit better. Oh, ladies first, I guess um, 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.320 you know, smash the patriarchy and ladies first. But so, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.160 my name is Mona Haydar. I am a poet turned rapper, 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.000 mom of two beautiful baby boys. I grew up in Flint, Michigan. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.440 I live in New York currently. I am currently in 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:47.880 my last semester hopefully of getting my masters in theology, um, 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.840 specifically Christian social ethics. Ah. Yeah, I know, I'm a Muslim. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.280 Why am I doing that? But it's cool. That's that's 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.760 good for now. Okay, wash, it makes me feel so inadequate, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.520 I don't wrap. Uh. First of all, thank you guys 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.120 for coming this to the Muslim next door. I feel 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.040 like this is depending on your politics, this is either 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.480 the title of a horror movie or a romantic comedy. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.720 And so like, if Mona is the guests is the 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.320 romantic comedy, I'm the Muslim next door, which be terrified. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:23.000 Protect Katie Couric at all costs, America's sweetheart from the 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.680 Muslim next door. Uh. I was born and raised in 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.840 fremontis Than, California, the Bay Area, anyone, the Bay Area, anyone? Yes? 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.600 Thank you? H to Pakistani Muslim immigrant parents who thought'd 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.599 be hilarious to name me Wajahat, and you know it 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.839 was oftentimes. Growing up was like the token Muslim and 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.680 token Pakistani, and I became like the Muslim friend of 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.000 people right. And I went to an all boys Jesuit 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.200 Catholic high school and every semester I got the highest 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.120 grade in religious studies class. It was me colley On 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.440 nilam rod to the Hindu and Navid Mustafavi the lapsed Persian, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.840 and father Alander used to read the grades in his heart, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.200 used to like just the Jesuit heart cracked little. But 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:02.680 but even though I just want to say this, even 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.600 though I grew up in America with e s L, 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.400 I couldn't speak English until I was five, I ended 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.560 up graduating with an English major from UC Berkeley. And 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.760 even though yes, yes, thank you. And even though I 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.520 was healthy growing up, and healthy is a euphemism for 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.400 big boned, and big bone is a euphemism for fat, 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.320 I was fat, uh, and I wore husky pants. I 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.599 ended up marrying an extremely accomplished, extremely smart high school 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.800 varsity cheerleaders. So hashtag it gets better uh. And now 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:32.840 I'm sitting next to Katie current I'm a writer, I'm 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.960 a tired dead of two and Pakistani immigrant uncles in 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.600 my community. All the stuff I've done, They're like, none 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.760 of it matters. You're talking to Katie. Court made it, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.520 so I made it. Everything else is downhill from now 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.279 I've made it. I'm the door. Well, thank you guys 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.240 for those quick bios. We're out of time. Thanks very 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:55.520 much for comming. I'm just kidding, kidding, so we know 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.000 we have no I'm not We have a lot, a 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.520 lot to get to and first to be Dickensie and 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.480 about it. These are the best of times. These are 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.480 the worst of times for for being h for Muslims 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.880 in this country. What words would you both use to 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.680 describe what it's like to be Muslim in America today? 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.800 Or is that question in and of itself problematic? Is 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.200 that like saying what is it like to be a 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.520 white Christian lady in America today? I think it's great 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.000 depending on where you are, your social location, your economic location, 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.520 you know, I think all of that plays into the question. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.760 But I think for a lot of Muslims in Middle America, 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:40.440 Islamophobia is can be lethal, as we've seen uh in 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.479 different parts of the country, and for some people, Islam 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.400 is their break is the thing that sets them apart. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.120 Um like Hedima Aiden, who's doing amazing things on New 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.880 York Runway. And I feel like for me, being very 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:01.400 visible Muslim has done good things for me. Um. And 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.160 I was wildly pregnant in my first music video, so 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:12.160 wildly mold pregnant, any months pregnant. So you know, I 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.679 think we're very visible. We're a very visible population. Um. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.360 We can be not always, but yeah, I think it 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:25.400 depends on where you are exhausting and exciting, exhausting. Because 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.560 I grew up. I was twenty years old when nine 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.160 eleven happened. I was a senior at UC Brooklyn, and 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.920 that's a pivotal shift for that generation, right, because there's 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.160 always a PRENI eleven and post eleven and for the 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.160 past seventeen years. Uh, it seems that based on the 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.320 rules that we choose in life, I end up being 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.040 this walking Muslim Wikipedia entry and a cultural ambassador for 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.600 one point seven billion people in sixteen hundred years of Islam, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.080 years of Islamic civilization, and any time some violent extremists 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.280 who I've never met does something in a country I've 0:07:54.280 --> 0:08:00.280 never visited. Our people's and our history is indicted, interrogated, investigated, questioned, 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.440 and sentenced to buy a nameless judge during executioner that 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.280 always holds our loyalty as suspect. And so you're always 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.360 like a walking explainer on Islam and Kuran and Sharia 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.680 and brock Kusan Obama who's not Muslim, but if he 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.520 was Muslim, I wouldn't make a difference. Uh, And you know, 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.840 like Hamas and Hamas, like everything right and and like 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.600 everything like you have to know everything, and God forbid, 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.160 if you make a mistake, you are personally not indicted. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.480 The entire collection of something called Muslims is indicted or 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.880 something called is Islam. And then they always ask you 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.480 why does is Islam hate the West? And then when 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.240 I go to Muslim countries, ask why does the West 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.240 hate Islam? And I'm like, who is Islam and who's 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:41.960 the West? And how come I've never met either of them? 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.680 And it's also exciting because I joke and you have 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.920 to have some dark humor. It's like choose your own adventure, 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.120 especially with Trump. Right, you might wake up and next 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:50.720 day you'll be in the Muslim camps and you hope 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.240 there's WiFi, or you might wake up and Mona's you know, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.559 rapping with her, you know, extremely pregnant, or just say 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.640 wildly pregnant belly right, And so a crisis presents an opportunity. 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.920 You're seeing Americans say, wait a second, this islamophobia thing 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.679 is real. Oh, Muslims have been here for four hundred years. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.400 Oh why don't you guys step up and be the 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.679 protagonist of this narrative and we'll follow your lead. And 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.760 that's exciting, and we're gonna cover President Trump in a 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:23.439 little bit. But speaking of a walking explainer of Islam, 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.720 you set up a booth mona sometimes with a sign 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.840 that says, ask a Muslim, what are the sorts of 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.640 questions you get and the answers you give? Can you 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.320 give us a few highlights? Yeah? Sure. I mean it's 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.360 really fascinating when we when we go out on the 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.640 streets and we do this, UM, people come to us. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.240 I think it's a social experiment of vulnerability. UM is 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.320 what it really is. People really just want to connect. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.800 And so people would come with often authentic curiosity and vulnerability, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.800 and they would open their hearts and they would say, 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.800 I feel really ignorant. I don't know, like do you 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.840 wear that when you sleep? Or like did your dad 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.040 force you to wear that? Or are you actually like 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.439 a free woman? You know? Do you need my help? 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.120 Should I save you from that white guy who maybe 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.000 it's your husband, maybe is like a lurking hipster? Like 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.760 should do you need do you need help? Can I 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:23.640 liberate you? You know? Um? And so folks came with 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.320 a lot of different things, but I feel like when 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.880 people came with authentic curiosity and vulnerability, it always transcended 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.880 that awkwardness and it always moved into the space of like, wow, 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.280 like we're just two people kind of opening our hearts 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.040 to each other. And I found, to be honest that 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.720 when I was really present with folks, when I was 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:49.400 really open and listening and really present to them, um, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.240 we could really quickly transcend what they may be called 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.640 their ignorance because it was really hearts meeting. And at 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.560 the end of the day, that's that's all. We really 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.600 need to heal a lot of the wounds that I 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.079 feel like this country and a lot of the world 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.960 are dealing with, you know, and wash, what do you 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.199 think are the some of the biggest misconceptions about Muslims, 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:18.240 even among educated people, I mean the educated liberals and 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.720 the lurking hipsters. I'll give you top five. Where are 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.359 the moderate Muslims? And how come they haven't condemned terrorism? 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.719 Is isis al Qaida, Bocoham or al Shabab representative of 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.839 traditional Islam some combination of those two. Number three, are 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.679 you guys commanded to do violent jahad against the infidels? 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.640 Number four? Are you trying to implement sharia across America? 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.160 Number five? Why do you hate and oppress your women? 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.040 And bonus the Jews? Why do you hate them? So 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.920 those are the six misconceptions, and in those misconceptions are 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.199 the assumptions that, apparently, when someone asked the question where 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.440 are the moderate Muslims? It's such a troubling question because 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.880 the assumption is there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.240 any practicing Muslim by virtue of being a because the 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.640 Muslim is somehow radical, anti Western, anti American. You know, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.040 it's so funny. On the airplane on the way here 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.920 today this morning, um, a very lovely woman was sitting 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.800 next to me, and she asked me, why aren't more 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:18.040 Muslim speaking out against these violent extremists, and I was like, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.280 I'm doing everything I can. You know, like, it's not 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.119 my problem and it's not my job to to address 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.000 that question. It's not my job to like convince the 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.839 whole world that I'm not violent, that I am a 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.480 normal mom, potty training my child, like trying to finish 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.920 my master's degree, you know, like it's not my job 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.560 to educate the masses about me what what is My 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.000 job is to be an authentic human being. But the 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.000 burden also falls right because they've been doing the study 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.839 for the past seven years. Americans say they don't know 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.760 Muslim and when you say, listen, man, I'm your Muslim friend, 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.559 they go, oh yeah, oh yeah you, but not I 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.559 was thinking thinking about And I'm like, you're not the 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.840 right kind of Muslim. You're thinking about Osama or Saddam 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.440 or Ayatola. So the image of Islam is something foreign. 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.760 So that when a well intentioned person and I'm sure 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.720 she was really nice and sweet and pleasant, yes, says 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.920 that to Mona. In her mindset, the Muslim is not 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.040 her or me, the Muslim next door. It's uh An 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.160 isis recruit. But you talk about when we sat down together, 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.400 watch about sort of the expectation there's there be a 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.800 condemned the thon on the part of so called moderate Muslims, 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:39.040 and how unfair that is in terms of expecting a reaction, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.199 expecting you to go on television every time there's an 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.720 event and speak out. Yeah, it's so for this, it's 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.200 like a double standard for people to really experience this. Uh. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.560 Muslim guy in New York October thirty one, Uzbek national 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.200 takes a car, rams through a crowd, kills people. Apparently 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.880 he yells a lahuag bar, and all of a sudden, 0:13:59.920 --> 0:14:03.640 the chiron and says man yells, allow hawkbar. Government investigating terrorism. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.640 Now everyone now allow hawkbar trands And everyone's like, where 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.840 are the moderate Muslimism? Why aren't they condemning this? And 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.640 where is your moderation? And there's a unique problem with 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.600 the Islam. It's a unique threat and we need special 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:19.080 counsels to investigate. In Charlottesville, a young white dude, UH, 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.600 some very fine people uh in the summer too soon, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.480 my bad uh takes a car and deliberately rams it 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.200 through a crowd and act of terrorism, killing a woman. 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.360 Katie and Brian, I do not think that you were asked, 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.880 where are the moderate whites and how come they're not 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.120 condemning white terrorism, white people. You're not doing enough to 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.800 counter white supremacists and rental, radical anti government activists, white people. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.440 Where are your leaders? Now? Imagine if that burden was 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.880 placed on you, and I'm assuming you guys would be like, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.680 I don't know those very fine people in Charlotte. I'm 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.440 Katie mother Efin Kuric, what why are you asking me 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.360 to do this? Right? And now imagine us the same 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.920 thing happens. So it's the double standard that seeps into 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.120 our media framing, which shapes our perceptions, which shapes the narratives, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.440 which shapes domestic and foreign policy, and it weaponizes Muslim 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.840 for politicians to gain votes and get elected into office. Well, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.680 and to that point, it's it's interesting right wing extremist 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.560 groups have been responsible for nearly white In fact, we 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.880 should add white right wing white I think I said 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.960 white wing. That was a Freudian slip. You said it, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.640 not us, Yeah, you said it. I'm proud. I want 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.600 to use the hashtag quote him not us. I'll favored it. 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.720 I know our moderate whites don't worry. Some of our 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:43.360 best friends are whites moderate whites? Yeah, we love the whites. 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.560 Everyone loves the whites. Anyway, Right wing extremist groups have 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.400 been responsible for nearly three times the number of violent 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.640 incidents as Muslim extremists since nine eleven, And yet that's 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:00.440 clearly not the perception. Why is that? Or Just State 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.480 University did an analysis exactly of that. When it comes 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.160 to even though white supremacists and radical white what do 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.040 you say white wing, white wing terrorists are response from 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.240 the most domestic terror threats and attacks, There's four times 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:19.080 as much media coverage when the suspect is wait for it, 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.360 Muslim in newspapers. And I'll give you an example Stephen 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.320 Paddock October was in October when from the Mandalay Bay 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.520 fiftieth floor shot and killed more than almost fifty people 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.000 right Las Vegas. What was the media framing lone wolf 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:39.440 mental health problems? A quiet man who would have thought, uh, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.760 Pola Pov does it? Uzbek national we need to end 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.440 diversity lottery program And this goes back and I won't 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.800 get into it, katiecause terrorists it's it's it becomes yeah, 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.600 who's a terrorist? It becomes a meaningless term now, especially 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.520 after nine eleven because Stephen Paddock does it lone wolf, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.160 the guy in shaw Olsville does it lone wolf, Muslim 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.399 does it or black man does it? Immediately the framing 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.399 is what terrorist, which changes the law enforcement response, the 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.520 media response, and the political response. And there's just some 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.800 angry white guys, you know. But it's particular for Muslims 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.440 even more than African Americans. Wouldn't you say, I don't 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.399 think the word terrorist is automatically used. Muslim and black 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.880 are not mutually exclusive, right exactly, But still I think 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.840 when it is a Muslim name, a Muslim sounding name, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.840 then I think they're very very quick to term it 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.560 a terrorist act, right wash. We have to draw the 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.720 parallels because it draws upon the history of terrorisming black 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.080 men and women in this country, and black was synonymous 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.920 and oftentimes is with Chicago violence. That's another code word 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.200 that Trump uses, right, savage, the enemy, the other it's 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.000 all other rising language. And so that same type of 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.520 otherizing language that was used against black people latinos m 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.040 s thirt and remember that that's gonna be a sexy 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.880 one going to uh Japanese Americans in World War two. Now, 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.879 taggre it it's the Muslim and the tag that hits 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:15.080 Muslims in particular is terrorism. Whiteness or white supremacy in 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:20.119 particular is given a pass, whereas Muslim or Blackness, i 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.439 would say, is always examined and the entire people who 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:30.760 represent Muslims or blackness are interrogated. We're going to take 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.640 a quick break. We'll be back with our conversation from 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:44.679 south By Southwest with wasajahat Ali and Mona Haydar. I 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.560 want to thank our listeners who called or wrote in 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.879 with their reflections for this week's episode, and I'd like 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.359 to share a couple of the messages we got to start. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.359 Let's listen to a voicemail. Hi. My name is Kathy, 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.600 and I did not have a lot of familiarity with Muslims. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.840 Um in high school, there were some and it was 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.960 during the Iran contra trials and people were getting spit 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.639 on and I would I would go to teachers because 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.639 I would see that happening in the hallway and that 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:18.440 was disturbing. Fast Foredom. And now a school teacher in California, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.119 and I have a number of Muslim students and they're 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.320 just great families and kids, and I just feel badly, because, 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.200 for instance, on Facebook, a friend will post something about 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.520 all Muslims and I have to say, you know, that's 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.440 just not true. I work with these kids and these families, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:38.760 and they'll say, well, we're not talking about them, We're 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:43.200 talking about the terrorists. And I think, you know, it's 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.200 like when people say things about right wing Christians evangelicals, 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.360 and I think, no, you know, you're making a mass 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.439 statement for a very select group of people. Both are 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.439 terrorists on either extremes. You know, someone I mean an 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:05.040 abortion clinic versus someone doing a you know, a suicide 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:09.399 and killing people. If they're Muslim, they're they're terrorists. And 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.440 I just think when you get to know people and 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.199 you can build those bridges, it helps. And you know, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.360 I asked questions because I don't know, and and it's 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:25.000 very wide umbrella and there Muslim just like with Christianity. Anyway, 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.960 those are my thoughts and I'm still a learner and 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.280 I'm now fifty four year years old. Um, but thank 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.760 you for doing this series. I really appreciate it. Well, 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.960 thank you for calling Kathy. I think we're all lifetime learners. 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.520 I feel that way, and we all have to continue 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.800 to ask questions and seek the truth. And your high 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:52.000 school memories of people spitting at Muslim students, obviously that's 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.240 something that stayed with you that sounds horrible. And also 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.879 the point you make that white extremists commit acts of 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:03.720 domestic terrorists, um and actually they do so, according to studies, 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.440 three times more often than Muslim extremists. But when Muslim 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.280 extremists commit a terrorist act here in this country, it gets, 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.200 according to a study by Georgia State University, four and 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.960 a half times the media coverage, or at least newspaper coverage. 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:23.960 So I think the way uh these events are conveyed 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.160 to us and conveyed to us as Americans in general, 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:32.720 really shape our views and often feed into negative impressions 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:37.800 of Muslim Americans that are simply completely unfair. Next, a 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:42.560 listener named Mary Gubrud wrote to us from Cedar Falls, Iowa. Mary, 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.920 thank you for that. She told us that a little 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.880 over a year ago, some women from her church she's 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.080 a Lutheran, decided to get together with women from a 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.680 local mosque, And this is what Mary wrote to us. 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.399 We began simply, we shared food that was acceptable to 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.800 both religions for a meal and then began to get 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.240 to know each other as women, mothers, sisters, and daughters. 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.479 Building on those common threads, we form friendships and then 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.119 began to learn and understand each other's faith. This group 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.520 has grown in the past year to include women from 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:14.639 a number of churches, the mosque as well as the 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:18.520 local synagogue. We meet monthly, sometimes at a church, sometimes 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.520 at the mosque, or sometimes at the synagogue. We share 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:26.280 a vegetarian meal, potluck style. She said. We are Midwesterners, 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:29.680 you know, and then have time where we learn from 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:34.480 each other or explore common issues. Mary, your letter, your 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.359 email makes me want to cry. You add, my life 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.080 is richer for the Muslim women I now call friends, 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:43.680 and this has allowed me to tell others where their 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:48.399 misconceptions of that faith are incorrect. I think, obviously, this 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.360 is what it's all about, spending time with people who 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.240 are different than we are, seeing them for what they are, 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:58.280 mother's daughters, sisters, people who want the best for their family, 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.399 and learning from each there. And Mary, I think you're 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.720 an object lesson in my whole goal for this series 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:09.399 America Inside Out, to get to know each other, to 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:12.920 get out of our comfort zone, and to learn from 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.199 one another. So thank you so much for writing and uh, 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.320 I'm very moved by what you said. Coming up, by 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:22.480 the way, in my series Fernaccio, I'll be exploring white 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.120 working class anxiety now. Over the past several months, I've 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:32.080 spent time in communities like Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Fremont, Nebraska, Erie, Pennsylvania, 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.480 Storm Lake, Iowa. These are places that have lived through 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:41.159