1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Good morning everyone. I hope you are watching Saturday Morning 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Cartoons or maybe the Muppets, because this one is all 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: about Jim Henson. I'm often asked what our favorite episodes 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: are when we do the Q and A at live shows, 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: and many, many times I go back to the ones 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: on the Muppets and Jim Henson because he was just 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: one of the best. This is from January sixth, twenty fifteen, 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: how Jim Henson worked American Hero. That's not part of 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: the title. That's just me. Welcome to stuff you should 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: know a production of iHeartRadio. 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: Charles W Chuck Bryant. How do you and Jerry for 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: the last time this year? Yes, just informed us and 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: she's all smiles. She is not very nice, Jerry. 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: How'd you like that presentation earlier? 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: The sensitivity training? 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: Huh? 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: It was great. 19 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: Yes, people, Because we worked for a corporation, we have 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: things like sensitivity trainings. 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 22 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: And in those trainings you get shown video examples of 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: various forms of harassment and they are the best, most 24 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,279 Speaker 1: fun things to watch. 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: Ever, they're pretty overt. 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I could watch those all day. Long. 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: I was wondering how much that production company made from that. Yeah, 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: you know they did, but like five little vignettes. They 29 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: I'm sure they paid the actors like literal peanuts. 30 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: They were bad actors. 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: They were like, kid, there's the peanut bucket over there, 32 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: you can pay yourself. 33 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, the old The one that really got me was 34 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: the Actually they were all really funny, but the one 35 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: with the old guy in the uh in the factory 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: loading boxes like a shipping warehouse, right, and they were 37 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: giving the old man a hard time about everything because 38 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: he was old. Yeah, because he's old, and you know, 39 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: they were given a hard time. So he and he 40 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: was out of work for a while and they had 41 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: to cover for him. The old man, and he had 42 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: the back brace on. Did you notice that? And he 43 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: just looked on his face. He just kept getting a 44 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: little more like Poudy the whole time. Yeah. I was like, dude, 45 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: that's good acting. Stick up for yourself. Tell these young 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: kids you know what to do. 47 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: The back brace prevents him from it. 48 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: Anyway. I just had to bring that up because I 49 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: just think that stuff is so funny. And what's funny 50 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: is people really do some of that stuff that you're like, what, 51 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: there's some creeps out there. That was a really weird 52 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: setup for Jim Henson, because he's the least harassing guy 53 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: he was probably ever. 54 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, he certainly comes across that way. 55 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: He's a genuinely good dude. It's not one of these 56 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: stories you hear about, like maybe some of your favorite 57 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: children's books writers or cartoonists or something, maybe we're kind 58 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: of bad people. 59 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: No, apparently not at all. Yeah, he was not. Only 60 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 2: so there's a lot of in this article. John No, John, 61 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: I thought John Strickland wrote it. It turns out that's 62 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: not the case. I'm surprised because he's friends with or 63 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: down with at least one of Jim Henson's kids I 64 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 2: believe lives here in Atlanta. 65 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 66 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: And but in this article, it's one of those things 67 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: where everybody who compliments Jim Henson, who worked with him, 68 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: they they go to the trouble of complimenting him in 69 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: a way that's not just like, oh, he was such 70 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: a great guy. They all back up just a little 71 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: bit because they're cognizant that that doesn't get it across sure, 72 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: and they want you to understand that they're talking about 73 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: more than just the great guy. Like, oh, he's dead 74 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: and I'm not gonna speak ill of the dead. And 75 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: he was a great guy. And that's a really thoughtless, polite, 76 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: inoffensive thing to say. Sure, So, like frank Oz said 77 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: something like he was a he was a great guy. 78 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: But at the same time, you know, he was a human, 79 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: but he was still a really great guy, right, So, 80 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 2: like what you're thinking of is a great guy. Get 81 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: rid of that and actually replace it with a genuine 82 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: human great guy. 83 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because as a filmmaker, he's a puppeteer obviously, but 84 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: he was a filmmaker first and foremost, which a lot 85 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: of people kind of forget about. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's 86 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: a tough, tough job, super stressful, and you and I 87 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: have seen it can make good guys and good ladies 88 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: be real jerks and yell under stressful situations. You know, 89 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a tough thing. There's a lot of 90 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: money on the line each day, and uh. 91 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: It's like everybody, relax, it's just millions of dollars. 92 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: But frank Oz, I think that's the point he was making, 93 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: Like even when he would get frustrated and stress like that, 94 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: it was he was still a good guy behind it all. 95 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I read I read an I guess it 96 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: was a book review of a biography about him that 97 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: that showed that it was all somebody said it was 98 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: all just play to him. Yeah, like work was play. 99 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: Even though he worked really hard, he was able to 100 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: commit himself like that to his work because to him, 101 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: he was having the time of his life all the time. 102 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: And apparently like there was just there was no line 103 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: between work and play, which now that we've seen that 104 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: sensitivity training could have gotten him in a lot of 105 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 2: big you know, a lot of trouble. But he he 106 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 2: just enjoyed the life that he had from what I understand, 107 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: love cars. Yeah, he had like a lotus that was 108 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: the same color as Kermit the Frog. He had a 109 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: Rolls Royce early on from his work. Yeah, let's talk 110 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: about let's talk about the guy. 111 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you haven't, I just need to 112 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: go ahead and say, if you haven't listened to the 113 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: episode on the Muppets, this is a what I consider 114 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: just a more in depth part two on the man himself. 115 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: But that's one of our favorite all time episodes and 116 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: from feedback, one of the great all time fan episodes. 117 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great episode. 118 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a lot of fun. And so 119 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: I hope this augments that one. I hope we do 120 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: it justice. 121 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: So that's actually one of the reasons why we can 122 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: do this episode, because we already did a Muppets episode and. 123 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: They tweeted about us. Do you remember the Henson Company did? Yeah, 124 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: they did, which was they approve huge. It got their 125 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: actual approval. That's right, man, that was something the Muppets 126 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: episodes its own thing. It's about Muppets. 127 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: This is about Jim Henson, and it's appropriate that we're 128 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: doing this because he was more than just the Muppets. 129 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: Even though everybody pegs him with the Muppets and like 130 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 2: that is a huge thing. He was more than that. 131 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: And like you said, he was a filmmaker but originally 132 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 2: started out as a puppetsier, but kind of a reluctant one. 133 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. He was born in nineteen thirty six September twenty fourth, 134 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: James Mauri Henson m A U R Y in Mississippi, 135 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: and his grandmother, maternal grandmother was a painter and a 136 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: quilter and a needle worker, and apparently it was a 137 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: big inspiration to him to seek out the creative in life, right, 138 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: which is pretty great. 139 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the one of the things he 140 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: got into. Well, he was originally a kind of a 141 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: fan of ventriloquism a little bit, but he said later 142 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: on in life that he was never he was never 143 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: like obsessed with puppets or anything like that like you 144 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: would have expected him to be. And as he went 145 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: to college, I think in Maryland, he he got into 146 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: He started out as a studio artist, that's what he 147 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: was studying. 148 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, he loved television above all else, right, from the 149 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: time he was a little kid. He was just transfixed 150 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: by the tube. 151 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: He almost kind of made himself destined to be on 152 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: television by being obsessed with it. Yeah, but he kind 153 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: of stumbled into puppetry in college, and he started out 154 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: as a studio art major and ended up graduating with 155 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: a homech degree because homech was the only degree that 156 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: offered puppet making courses. 157 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, he majored or he took a puppetry course at first, 158 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: and then a bunch of textiles and crafts courses, which 159 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: is a great way to you know, start building and 160 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: making your own puppets. Right. 161 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: So, but he graduated with a home ch degree, but 162 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: by the time he graduated, he was already extremely successful. 163 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: The Rolls Royce that I mentioned he bought in time 164 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: to drive to his college graduation. Yeah, because he'd already 165 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 2: created successful shows in his town. 166 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he was in high school. He was 167 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: on the local TV station doing little guest spots, and 168 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: then in nineteen fifty five, the show Salmon Friends debuted, 169 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: and that you know, he also did work on the 170 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: side making money with them. I think he did some 171 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: of the like really cool concert posters of the day, 172 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: really colorful silk screen posters, and Salmon Friends did really well, 173 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: but he still wasn't quite sure, Like I still don't 174 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: know if I want to. You know, my filmmaker, I 175 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: did these short films, really sort of weird, abstract short films, live. 176 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: Action, experimental, so totally experimental. Did you see the time Piece? 177 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: Oh? 178 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that one was pretty cool. 179 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: It was great in its way. 180 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: And did you see the Cube? I watched parts of 181 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: the Cube that was Did you see the end? No, Oh, 182 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: you've got to see the end. I skipped the middle 183 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,719 Speaker 2: because I was like, Okay, I get where you're going 184 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: with this. 185 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well we should just set it up real quick. 186 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: The Cube was a show on NBC. It was a 187 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: one hour. 188 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: Show in nineteen sixty nine. 189 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: The name of the show NBC did was called uh 190 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: Experiment in Television and it was a different thing each week. 191 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: And he had one week's installment called The Cube, which 192 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: was a guy just stuck in a white room but 193 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: other people could come in and out of the room, 194 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: but he could not, right. 195 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, and he starts to go kind of crazy, 196 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: and it has the look and feel of a color 197 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 2: TV ad, like all lots of over acting in like 198 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: Carol Burnett esque characters and stuff like that. But yeah, 199 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 2: the sentiment behind it and like that, everything behind it 200 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: is really neat and it really gives you a good, 201 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: an eye opening example of like what Jim Henson was 202 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: capable of, but also like what he was into, because 203 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: you know, when you think of him, you think of 204 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 2: muppets in Sesame Street in particular. 205 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: Sure, and these are weird abstract art films, not unlike 206 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, you watch like a Jim Morrison art film 207 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: from film school and it's kind of the same style. 208 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: You know, that was what was going on back then. Yeah, 209 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: and he actually got nominated for an Academy Award for 210 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: time Piece. 211 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: I think Jim Hooinson, Jim Henson had Jim Morrison beat 212 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: by a mile as far as experimental films went. 213 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you there. So, like I said, 214 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: he wasn't quite convinced that puppetry was his future because 215 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: he was a filmmaker and he was like, puppets are 216 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: still kind of kids. But post college he did the 217 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: Old Tour of Europe, and in Europe, puppeteering is a 218 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: whole different business. It was a lot more serious and 219 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: a lot more I guess it was. 220 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: Treated as art. 221 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and he said, you know what, I Am 222 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: going to give this a shot. Came back to the US, 223 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: married Jane, and even though he and Jane separated, they 224 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: never divorced. 225 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: Oh really I thought they did. 226 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: No, they never fulfilled the divorce. They just stayed separated. 227 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: And then he started making TV commercials and formed his 228 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: own company in nineteen sixty three with I don't know 229 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: if he formed it with Frank Oz, but he hired 230 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: Frank Oz and Jerry Jewel, who ended up being obviously 231 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: legendary puppeteers. 232 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: And lifelong collaborators of his. 233 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 234 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, But he started out making a basically a puppet 235 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: based commercial ad agency in New York, Yes, in nineteen 236 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: sixty three. 237 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they weren't making funny commercials back then. So 238 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: he was really pretty revolutionary right time. 239 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: And they, I mean, they did pretty well for themselves. 240 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: And one of the smartest moves he made early on 241 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 2: was all of his contracts said that he retained the 242 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: rights to any of the creations he made for these companies. Yeah, 243 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: so he was creating what some of the things that 244 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: would later become famous muppets, Like the Cookie Monster was 245 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: originally made for a chip maker. It was this puppet 246 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: that couldn't get enough of these chips. 247 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. He was the wheel stealer and he stole cheese wheels. 248 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, that's what it was. Yeah, and he ended 249 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 2: up being the Cookie Monster. And the reason he ended 250 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: up being the Cookie Monsters because Jim Henson retained the 251 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 2: rights to that creation. 252 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: That was he was a very savvy business guy too. 253 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was he was using somebody else's dime, 254 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: these advertisers, yeah, like budgets to kind of hash out 255 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: and form and make his muppets. Yeah. 256 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: Rocked the Dog started out on Purina commercials and was 257 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: later a sidekick on the Jimmy Dean Show in nineteen 258 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: sixty three. 259 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: Which I remember that from the Muppets episode Rolf was 260 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 2: the first big Muppet. Then he's such like a bit 261 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 2: character now, yeah that you know, it's just mind boggling 262 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: to think he was the one that started it all, 263 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 2: even before Kermit, before Big Bird. It was Rolf. 264 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: Kermit kind of stole the show. 265 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, we'll talk a little more about Kermit 266 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: and where he came from right after this. 267 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: All right, So it's nineteen sixty nine and a very 268 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: very big thing happens to Jim Henson. He was invited 269 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: to be on the pilot of a show created by 270 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: the Children's Television Workshop called Sesame Street. Not created, some 271 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: people think he did, but he did make his mark 272 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: by creating most of the iconic characters. And if you 273 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: were a fan of the old Sesame Streets back then, 274 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: all not all, but many of those little short films, 275 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: the little claymation ones or the live actions. He directed 276 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: those as well. Yeah, which is pretty cool. I never 277 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: knew that. 278 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: I think I knew that, did you. Yeah? He was 279 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: he was our Russ Vict, you know, he was their 280 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: Russ Vic. 281 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: That's right. 282 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: Russ Vic is ours, That's right, So, Chuck, the whole 283 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: thing that changed everything for him was Sesame Street. Yeah, 284 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: he's not a He wasn't a creator of Sesame Street. 285 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: They hired him on and they actually kind of won 286 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: him over because remember, one of the things that Jim 287 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: Henson always struggled with his whole career was he wanted 288 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: to explore places that puppets had never really gone to, 289 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: in themes that they hadn't gone to, at least not 290 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: in the modern age. Sure, but he was fighting against 291 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: them not being taken seriously. 292 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't like he was anti puppet by any 293 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: means he was or anti kids because one of the 294 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: big reasons he signed on with Children's Television Workshop was 295 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: their goal to educate kids meant a lot to him. 296 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: But like you said, I think to merge those worlds 297 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: successfully was a big part of his goal and struggle 298 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: for a little while. 299 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: Russ Vick, by the way, made the little interstitial things 300 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: for the stuff you should know, televisions, Yeah, the animations, 301 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: which is why I reference him. 302 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 303 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: So the Children's Television Workshop, which is now called the 304 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: Sesame Workshop. Yeah, from what I understand, they won them 305 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: over big time. He makes all of these characters from 306 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: like Big Bird, and I think Kermit came before Sesame 307 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: Street and he started out I think we talked about 308 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: this in The Muppet episode two. He started out looking 309 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: really weird, Yeah, like a lizard on this Yeah, not 310 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: cool at all, like really kind of freaky. 311 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is something. 312 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: That I now that I know a little more about 313 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: Jim Henson, I think maybe he might have even been 314 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: going for. But one of the things that Sesame Street 315 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: allowed him to do was to really kind of explore 316 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: something that he'd long been obsessed with, which was television 317 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,239 Speaker 2: and where it converged with puppets, which was all new territory, 318 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: and Jim Henson was at the bleeding edge of it 319 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 2: because if you think about it, when you go to 320 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: a puppet show live, you know, you're you're looking at 321 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: what's essentially a mechanism for hiding the human and there's 322 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: just a little area that the puppet can move. 323 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: Around in tiny fixed age. 324 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So Jim Henson stepped back and said, Okay, 325 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 2: the television is that little tiny area that the puppet 326 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: can stay, can move around in, but it also opens 327 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: up the whole world for a puppet because you're using 328 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: camera angles and there's editing and it's not in person. 329 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: Just frame out the people. 330 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: So and again we talked about this in the Muppet episode. 331 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 2: He created something called platforming up, Yeah, to where the 332 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 2: puppeteers no longer had to like crouch down and to 333 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: maneuver the puppets. 334 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, because he was a tall guy. 335 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, tall and lanky man. He was skinny. 336 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: Oh, those running shots and time piece exactly because he 337 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: was in it. They were hysterical. 338 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he weighs about seventy pounds somehow, big lanky legs. 339 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 2: But so Yeah, the performers could stand up, which was 340 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: a huge weight off. 341 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. 342 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: But at the same time, because you're working with cameras 343 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and they have the whole universe 344 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: to move around in and Jim Henson wanted him to 345 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 2: move around as much as possible. It also put him 346 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: in some weird positions. 347 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you ever well, some people might think it's 348 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: like kind of ruining the thing, but I think it's 349 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: really neat. If you just look up on Google images Muppets, 350 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: Muppet Show behind the scenes pictures, yeah, and it'll show 351 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: the stage sets you know, like six feet off the ground, right, 352 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: all the people standing beneath. I think it's awesome to 353 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: look at. But some people don't, like you know, they 354 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: want to keep that illusion alive. So depending on what 355 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: kind of person you are, either seek that out or don't. 356 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: And we gave that warning in the Muppets episode too, 357 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: did we. Yeah, Yeah, I think they're really cool pictures. 358 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: I agree, because you know, a lot of times they're 359 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: looking at uh, they're looking at video monitors standing there 360 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: contorted using both hands right. Like the way puppeteers work together, 361 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: to me is just a miracle because they're acting as 362 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: the puppets, but they're moving still moving among one another 363 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: as humans right underneath, which can be really complicated. In fact, 364 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: we know some really really talented puppeteers here in Atlanta. 365 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Center for Puppetry Arts is yeah, I think 366 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 2: the nation's largest puppet puppeteer organization. 367 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: Yep. And that is where we had our TV show 368 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: debut party, premiere party. Yeah, Like it was a really 369 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: cool experience. Like Auto in the Gang are right there 370 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: on display. I think the Hinson and Kermit cut the 371 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: ribbon for the grand opening back when it opened and 372 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: ended up donating like five hundred puppets and muppets to 373 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: the Center for Puppetry Arts. So if you ever visit Atlanta, 374 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: people always email us and say what should we do? 375 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: I highly recommend going and checking out the Center for 376 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: Puppetry Arts. 377 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they have a museum with, like you said, 378 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: Emmitt otderxy stuff, like a full sized life size sketchy 379 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: yeah behind glass, scary as you can imagine. 380 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, But I was talking about Raymond Carr, our friend 381 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: who I hate to keep bringing up the TV show, 382 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: but it all kind of overlaps. He was a production 383 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: designer for Stuff you Should Know on Science Channel, and 384 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: he and his friends Brandon and the gang are amazing 385 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: puppeteers and they're doing some really really leading edge, like 386 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: cool stuff here in Atlanta. Yeah, like these giant puppets 387 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: operated like, you know, fifteen foot tall puppets operated by 388 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: like six and eight people. Have you ever seen the 389 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: spaceman that they do. No, man, it's unbelievable. It's really cool. 390 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know how tall he is, he 391 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: seems like he's twenty feet tall. And they know do 392 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: these at parades and stuff, and it's just really really 393 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: cool stuff. 394 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 395 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, but Henson is a huge inspiration to them obviously. 396 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I think anybody who works even remotely in 397 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 2: puppets has gotta be inspired by Jim Hinton. One of 398 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 2: the other things that he came up with was that 399 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 2: was based on putting muppets or puppets on TV. Was 400 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 2: using softer materials. Yeah, everything else was like up to 401 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 2: that point, stiff Wood, Marionette's Ventriloquist dummies, that kind of stuff, right. 402 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 2: He used like foam, and it allowed the puppets themselves 403 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: to have more expressive faces, which was great for close 404 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: up on TV. Yeah, absolutely, And it also I mean 405 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 2: now looking back, you just are like, well, yeah, of course, 406 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: it's what puppets do. 407 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: That's what I know. 408 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: But that was Jim Henson that came up with that, 409 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 2: and it changed everything because it took something like, I mean, 410 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: imagine Howdy Doty. He was like, yeah, it's cool, you know, 411 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: it's Howdy doty or whatever. But yeah, whether close up 412 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 2: or far away, he looked exactly the same. It was 413 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 2: like a woodhead with like a moving lower jaw. And 414 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 2: you know, he gave you nightmares with Kermit the Frog 415 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 2: or something like that. The fact that he could have 416 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 2: different expressions and react differently, and his emotions could be 417 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: shown on his face. That made him that much more popular, 418 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: that much more approachable, sure to people who were into 419 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: him absolutely, which is everybody. 420 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, show me someone who doesn't like Muppets in 421 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: any form. I get it. If you don't like it anymore, maybe, 422 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: but your heart is cold and dead inside for a while. 423 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: And this is something I don't think I knew. He 424 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: dabbled on Saturday Night Live in season one. Lord Michael's 425 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: got him a deal to perform some sketches, and ultimately 426 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't a huge success, and it wasn't the greatest marriage, 427 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: but it was pretty cool that he was seeking out, 428 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: you know, different avenues to get those puppets on television. 429 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: It was, And his big break came in nineteen seventy five. 430 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: He wanted to make The Muppet Show and he had 431 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble in the US still, yeah, even 432 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: though he had his various successes on commercials and stuff. 433 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: So he had to go to London and a TV 434 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: producer named Lord lou Grade gave him a deal with 435 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: grades ATV Studios. Said, you know what, you can make 436 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: your show. And the Muppet Show was born, Oh yeah 437 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: about it being about a boom. 438 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: That was it. That was it. And you can really 439 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: see Jim Henson's love of variety shows and just kind 440 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: of well, just the stage in The Muppet Show, because 441 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: if you think about it's set the whole thing set 442 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: backstage at a variety show. 443 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: It's such a great idea. When you look back at it, 444 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: it's like we take it for granted a little bit 445 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: because we were kids, but now as an adult, it's like, 446 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: what a perfect way to frame this world. It's basically 447 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: like thirty rock or thirty Rock was the Muppet. 448 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: Show right with the Muppet Show started all that? Yeah, 449 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 2: I don't know if Carol Burnett was before the Muppet Show. 450 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: Yeah it was before, was it? 451 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 2: Yeah? So she did a lot of backstage stuff, didn't 452 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 2: she U. I wonder who started that. 453 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Hers was more sketch, Yeah, but some. 454 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: Of it was like backstage, was it? I believe? So 455 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 2: I don't remember that. Thus I'm hallucinating right now. 456 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: They need to have a good old fashioned variety show again. 457 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have those anymore. 458 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: Those were big back in the day, you know, like 459 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: the host comes out and then there's sketches and singing. 460 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: And remember our cabaret, No, it wasn't cabaret. What was 461 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: it the episode we did? 462 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: Oh uh burlesque? 463 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 2: Burlesque? Yeah, yeah, how that started out in vaudeville and 464 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: burless cad that's where stand up comedy came from. That 465 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: was an interesting episode. 466 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. I miss those variety shows though, like the Kenny 467 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: Rogers and Dolly Parton and yeah Cal Burnett all that, 468 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: the band. 469 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: Sisters, Although Kenny and Dolly could just sit on a 470 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: couch and stare at the camera for an hour and 471 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 2: I'd watch that. Yeah, jer the best great entertainers. Yeah, 472 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: I love those two. 473 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: All right, So where are we in our timeline? 474 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, the Muppet Shows just hit. 475 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: Oh that's right. 476 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 2: Things are going pretty well. They happened going pretty well 477 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 2: already for Henson. Apparently in nineteen seventy, Rubbert Ducky hit 478 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 2: number sixteen on the Billboard charts. And for those who 479 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: don't know, Ernie is voiced by Jim Henson. So Jim 480 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: Henson sang a song Rubbert Ducky that made it to 481 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 2: number sixteen on the Billboard charts, and that was nineteen seventy, a. 482 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: Year after The Cube, before. 483 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: The Muppet Show even happened, before Sesame Street even right, 484 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 2: Nomestreet was sixty nine out. Okay, yeah, same year as 485 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: The Cube. Wow, that's great, Sey. That the new touchstone 486 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: for his life. The Cube. 487 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, PC and BC. So the Muppet Show it was 488 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: a huge hit. It won, you know, a lot of awards, 489 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: It garnered critical praise and won the hearts of children 490 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: all over the world. 491 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: But it was also for adults too. Oh yeah. I 492 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: think that's why he was able to pull it off 493 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: in Great Britain, because they have better senses of humor. 494 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. And speaking of adults, he got into some more 495 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: serious themes with his next great show, Fragle Rock. Yeah, 496 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three. 497 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 2: I never saw a second of that show. Oh man, 498 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: really it wasn't it on HBO? 499 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. It was one of the first HBO original series. 500 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 2: We either had showtime or we didn't have. 501 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: It was awesome. Fragle Rock was great. And the idea 502 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 1: there is you had the fragle Gang and then you 503 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: had well, you had three different groups. You had the 504 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: Home of Doc who was an inventor, and his dog's Sprocket. 505 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: You had the Fraggles who shared caves underground of Fragle 506 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: Rock with their neighbors, the Doozers and the Gorgs and 507 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: these gigantic creatures that are in Gorg's garden, And the 508 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: whole point of that show was to show how different 509 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: types of people can live together and work together in peace. Right. 510 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: It was really cool. Didn't know it at the time 511 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: when I was, you know, twelve years old, but what 512 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: I was learning about was acceptance. And he won three 513 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: kble Ace Awards five International Emmys in frag O Rock 514 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: was one of the first big hits for HBO as 515 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: far as TV goes. Yeah, great, great show, lots of 516 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: great songs that I mean, he had every kind of 517 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: like reggae, rock, country, bluegrass. Really he was all over 518 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: the map with the music on Fragle Rock. 519 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 2: And he I mean he wrote a lot of songs too. 520 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 2: I think he wrote Rubbert Ducky. I'm sure he wrote 521 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff on Fragle Rock. It was 522 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: just yet another thing he did was. 523 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: Right music renaissance Man. 524 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: The other show that he came out with in the eighties, 525 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: in the mid eighties that I was big time intwo 526 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 2: was Muppet Babies. 527 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: I never saw one second of that. 528 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: Man, I love that show. 529 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just enough of part in age where like 530 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: certain things I saw you I was you were too 531 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: young for, and then certain things I was too old for. 532 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 2: You know, it's weird, though, I'm just gonna say this. 533 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 2: So you, me and I are the same age. Her 534 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 2: sister is like five years younger than us. U and 535 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: I used to love Muppet Babies. Yeah, you and me's 536 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 2: sister used to watch Muppet Babies, so you may was like, 537 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 2: why were you watching Muppet Babies if my younger sister was. 538 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: Watching babies and Yummy didn't watch Muppet Baby. 539 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 2: No, she watched like Donahue or something like that. I 540 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: watched Muppet Babies, And I'm not ashamed anymore to say. 541 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: Well, when was that nineteen eighty four. I was thirteen, 542 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: so yeah, I was just I was starting to be 543 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: a teenager. Muppet Babies didn't appeal. 544 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: I think it was on for like four or five seasons, 545 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 2: so maybe I was watching it at the beginning of 546 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 2: the series. Anka was watching it. That's what I've been 547 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: telling you. 548 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: Me and eighty four, you would have been what eight, Oh, yeah, 549 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: that's perfect age for Muppet Babies. 550 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 2: So I think I think we just saw it on 551 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: different ends of the series, is what it was? Is 552 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: that what it is? But have you ever heard of 553 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: Ron Funches, Uh yeah, the comedian. Yeah, yeah, he has 554 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 2: a little bit about Muppet babies. It's pretty hilarious. Really, 555 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: he's awesome. I love that guy. Yeah, we saw him live. 556 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: He's just a beautiful human being. 557 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: Muppet Babies was cartoon though, right right, it was not 558 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: live puppets correct at all. 559 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: No, it was cartoon. 560 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: Okay. 561 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 2: It was so cute. 562 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: Were they just the regular muppets as babies? Yes, Oh 563 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: well I have to watch that sometime. 564 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they like us their imagination, Like Gonzo had 565 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 2: a thing for Indiana Jones, so he was frequently like 566 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: exploring caves and like swinging on vines with the Indiana 567 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 2: Jones fedoran and that kind of stuff. 568 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: Well, see, I would probably enjoy that, now you would, Yeah, definitely. 569 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna go get Muppet Babies, Chuck. 570 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: He did even more TV that we'll talk about in 571 00:28:43,120 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: a second. Okay, okay, okay, and we're back and we're 572 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: still in the eighties. 573 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: That's right. And you were talking about other TV, as 574 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: we said, the man loved television and filmmaking, and so 575 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,239 Speaker 1: he got away from the Muppets and puppets every now 576 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: and then collaborated with Raymond Scott, who was an electronica pioneer, 577 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: actually on shorts called Ripples and Wheels that Go, and 578 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: he did that for the Montreal Expo in sixty seven 579 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: and I know we're jumping around in time, but we're 580 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: just trying to paint the full picture here, not going 581 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: necessarily in order. And then he also did this cool 582 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: thing called the Floating Face, which was a sketch that 583 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: was on the Tonight Show, on the Mike Douglas Show 584 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: in the sixties, which did you see any of. 585 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 2: That a little bit? 586 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: It was a little weird. It was like two eyes 587 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: and a mouth and there were like these invisible wires 588 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: and background images. It was definitely a little more on 589 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: that surreal tip, the hints and surreal tip, not kid 590 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: oriented necessarily. But he got into the movies with the 591 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: Muppet Movie, which was a big hit, so good it 592 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: still holds up, man, it's still so great. 593 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: If you want to know more about that movie into 594 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: some of the cool facts from it, go again listen 595 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 2: to the Muppet episode Yeah, as a matter of fact, 596 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 2: pause this, go listen to the Muppet episode and then 597 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: come back to this one. Yeah, well it will probably 598 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: enhance your experience. Agreed, Or listen to them both at 599 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: the same time. 600 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: But he followed the Muppet in nineteen eighty two, he 601 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: made The Dark Crystal, Yeah, which was puppets and it 602 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: was based on some drawings by fantasy artist Brian Froud, 603 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: And there were no humans. It was all puppets. And 604 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: I don't think it holds up as well, but it 605 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: still looks pretty good. 606 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think it actually is probably better received 607 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: now than it was originally. 608 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 609 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 2: I think critics appreciated it, but it didn't do so 610 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: well at the box office. But now it's become like 611 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: a kind of a cult classic for sure. And one 612 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: of the reasons why it didn't do that well at 613 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: the box office because audiences didn't quite know what to 614 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: make of it. They heard Frank Oz who co directed it, 615 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: Jim Henson and puppets, and I think they went expecting 616 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: the Muppet movie this is nineteen eighty two, and they 617 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: got The Dark Crystal instead, which is really dark. A 618 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: lot of the like the theme is, you know, good 619 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: versus evil, and it's the evil in it. 620 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: Is really really evil yea. 621 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: And the stuff that happens to some of the puppets 622 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: is including really cute puppets, is really horrifying. And I 623 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 2: read this awesome quote by Frank Oz and basically he says, 624 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: like Jim thought it was okay to scare kids. As 625 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, he thought it wasn't healthy for 626 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: kids to never be scared, so like he purposefully was 627 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: trying to scare kids, and he wanted to take the 628 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 2: tradition back to like grim Tales, which were very very dark. 629 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. 630 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: That's what he was going for with the Dark Crystal. Yeah. 631 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: I think it was ahead of its time for sure. 632 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you look at some. 633 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: Of these, like some of the CGI movies today, I 634 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: think that Dark Crystal was a precursor to a lot 635 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: of those. Then he went on to make the movie 636 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: The Labyrinth with Bowie, right, Yeah, David Bowie in a 637 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: very young Jennifer Connelly. Now that was a legend. 638 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 2: Oh okay, good movie. 639 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: But this was written by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame, 640 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: and then rewritten a bunch by a bunch of other people. 641 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: Including executive producer George Lucas. Labyrinth was okay, not bad again, 642 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: not a huge hit for Hnson though as far as 643 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: movies go. But he was still out there exploring these 644 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: cool fantastical worlds and fantasy. 645 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: Worlds, and he still had a lot of crid even 646 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 2: in the late eighties. If you think about it, his 647 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: heyday was the late seventies early eighties with the Muppet 648 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 2: Show the Muppet Movie, and then after that it was like, yeah, 649 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: I'll try this with Jim Henson. I'll try this with 650 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 2: Jim Henson. Yeah. And even still he had like a 651 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: he was on a pretty great streak. And at the 652 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: end of the eighties he had two TV shows on 653 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: The Jim Henson Hour Yeah, and Storyteller This Storyteller. 654 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Jim Henson Hour. He was always pushing the boundaries. 655 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: The Storyteller looking Back Now, I'm sorry, Jim Henson Hour 656 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: looking Back was really different from what you were getting 657 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: at the time because it was it was all over 658 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: the map. You had certain shows that were like, you know, 659 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: four or five sketches in one and then three of 660 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: the episodes were full on one hour little mini movies. 661 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, from beginning to Louis. Yeah, that's a 662 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: good point. Actually, one of the little mini movies was 663 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: called Dog City, which was great. It was narrated by 664 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: Rolf and it was I remember watching this. It was 665 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: like a film noir gangster thing with puppet dogs. Yeah, 666 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: and the main character, Acu, was the guy who did Elmo. 667 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: Kevin Clash did the character of Acu, and that was fantastic. 668 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: I think Dog City went on to be a TV 669 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: show in its own right. Took for a little while, 670 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: but it was really good. I mean it's total like 671 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: gangster crime film noir, but it's you know, Rolf, the 672 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: dog right the gang I love. It's really cool. 673 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 2: The storyteller I hadn't seen before. I was, I guess 674 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 2: aware of, but I don't know why I wasn't watching 675 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: it because it would have been like right there for me, Yeah, 676 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: because I would have been twelve in nineteen eighty eight. 677 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 2: But I watched one today and it was really good. 678 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 2: It's like human puppet interaction, yeah, which is and it's 679 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 2: just seamless. Like there's one of the things from studying 680 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 2: this that I've realized is like we take for granted 681 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: and expect our puppet human interactions to be so seamless 682 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: that we don't even realize that we're looking at puppets 683 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: right then. And the reason why we expect that is 684 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 2: because of Jim Henson and the people he worked with 685 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 2: and inspired to work so hard at creating illusion. 686 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the illusion that these are living, breathing things. 687 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: He would go I remember Kermit as guest on talk shows. 688 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: He wouldn't go out as Jim Henson. He would go 689 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: out as I mean, he did those appearances as well, 690 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: but Kermit the Frog would be a guest on The 691 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: Tonight Show with Johnny Carson or host or host the 692 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: guest host The Tonight Show and Larry King. Yeah, and 693 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: it was all a part of this goal of making 694 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: these real people, right, or real living things not people. 695 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently somebody who was working with Jim Henson was 696 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 2: I guess a director of the Muppet Show would be 697 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 2: giving Jim notes on Kermit, and Jim would just respond like, 698 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 2: let Kermit respond, freaking And the director said, eventually you're 699 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 2: just sitting there, You turn and you address Kermit like 700 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 2: he just forced you in, like interacting with the puppet 701 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 2: even during a note session. 702 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and probably without feeling silly or stupid or anything. 703 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: You know, it probably seemed like a totally normal to do. 704 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 2: Eventually once he forced you to do it. 705 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: He also pioneered the Hintson Performance Control System and won 706 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: an Academy Award for that, and that was a remote 707 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: control system that helped puppeteers out. So he was always 708 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: pushing technical, visual, stylistic, thematic boundaries as far as he could, 709 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: and they didn't always work. You know, the movies weren't 710 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: aside from them up at movie they weren't the biggest hits. 711 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: The TV show a couple of you know, neither one 712 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: of those lasted very long. But I think he was 713 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: just intent on doing something different. 714 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he did too. And he died in nineteen 715 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,399 Speaker 2: ninety of a staff infection. Organ failure brought on by 716 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: a staff infection. Did you know that? 717 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think pneumonia had something to do with it too, 718 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: didn't it. 719 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 2: Not that I saw, Really, I saw organ failure caused 720 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: by a group a strep infection. I'm sorry that staff. 721 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: Very sad. And if you're ever in the mood for 722 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,919 Speaker 1: a good cry, watch the Jim Henson memorial where Big 723 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: Bird sings It's not easy being green, Yeah, tough stuff people, 724 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: his children. His legacy lives on through nineteen ninety three, Jane, 725 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: his wife, formed founded the Jim Henson Legacy to preserve 726 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: his contributions, share him with the public. And like I said, 727 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: he donated five hundred puppets to the Center of Puppetry Arts. 728 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: And there is also the Jim Henson Memorial and Muppup 729 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: Museum and traveling exhibits. And his sons and daughters help 730 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: run his foundation, and some of them are publicing companies 731 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,479 Speaker 1: themselves and run the company. The company has changed hands 732 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: a lot. I have sort of the boring history. When 733 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: he was still alive, he was going to sell it 734 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: to Disney for one hundred and fifty million. 735 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: Ye, because apparently he believed in Disney's commitment to the characters, 736 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 2: so he thought like that would be a good place 737 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 2: for them muppets to live. 738 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Disney went he bought it, but he did 739 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: not get that deal finished. But it turns out one 740 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million with chump change because in two 741 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: thousand his children sold the entire company, including the Sesame 742 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: Street characters, to a German media company for six hundred 743 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: and eighty million and then I believe that company fell 744 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: in hard times and they bought it back in two 745 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: thousand and three for eighty four million. Isn't that crazy? 746 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 2: Wow? The Henson children are smart. 747 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: And in between all that, there are various exchanges of 748 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: percentages of stakes with other companies and rights of certain characters. 749 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: It's a little dull to go over all of that, 750 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: but needless to say, they made up pretty well. And 751 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: eventually Disney now does they do own all the Muppet studio? 752 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 2: They own the Muppets. That apparently the Henson Company sold 753 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: the rights to the Sesame Street characters to Sesame Street, 754 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 2: which is pretty cool. Yes, and the Jim Henson Creature 755 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 2: Shop still builds the Sesame Street puppets and Muppets. 756 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it says they sold the rights to the Muppets 757 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: and Bear in the Big Blue House characters, which I'm 758 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: not familiar with that one, nor am I, but Disney 759 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: wanted to. I guess that's sort of the player to 760 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: be named later that's included in the baseball trade. 761 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 2: Man proud of the Henson kids. 762 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're great, and I hope we get tweeted about 763 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: this one from them. You seem pretty great, Brian and 764 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: Cheryl and the gang. He seemed like they're doing right 765 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: by the dad. And there's other siblings too, and I 766 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: think they're all involved. Yep, super involved. And sadly Jane 767 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,919 Speaker 1: passed away I think in twenty thirteen at the age 768 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: of seventy eight. I would have loved to have seen 769 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: what kind of work he did later in his life. 770 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the fact that he died in nineteen ninety 771 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: still had like a couple of TV shows going, I 772 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 2: mean fifty three years old. Yeah, he had a lot 773 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,479 Speaker 2: of art left in. If you want to know more 774 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 2: about Jim Henson, go listen to our Muppets episode. And 775 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: while you're looking that up, you can also search Jim 776 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 2: Henson on the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com and 777 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 2: I'll bring up this great article. And since I said 778 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 2: search part, it's time for a listener mail. 779 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: This is I'm gonna call this sophomore smart sophomore. Hey guys, 780 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: my name is Matt and I'm a sophomore in high school. Sophomore, 781 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: smart sophomore. I'm a newer fan of the show and 782 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: I listen while I do everything, I just want to 783 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: say the Dark Ages were only dark in Europe. The 784 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: life expectancy in the Dark Ages is actually a little 785 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: longer than before, but mostly because there were smaller wars. 786 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: But things were certainly brighter in the Islamic world. In fact, 787 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,720 Speaker 1: people in the Middle East were really enlightened during this time. 788 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: Within about one hundred years, they conquered a lot of 789 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: new land, including Spain. Also, the Arabic language grew to 790 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: be the language of philosophy, medicine, and poetry, and Baghdad 791 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: became the world center of scholarship. They translated almost all 792 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: of the famous Greek philosopher's work into Arabic. Muslim Muslims 793 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,240 Speaker 1: developed algebra to amplify inheritance laws, and they made important 794 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 1: strides in trigonometry to help people find a way to Mecca. 795 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: Architecture grew too. The Great Mosque and Spain only took 796 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,959 Speaker 1: roughly a year, while medieval cathedrals took hundreds of years 797 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: to build. Wow, So the Dark Ages weren't that dark, 798 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: and the Enlightenment came earlier than most think. And that 799 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: is from Matt. 800 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 2: Thanks Matt. 801 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: That is enlightening stuff, my friend. 802 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, our numerals are Arabic. 803 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. We should hit on some more Middle 804 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: Eastern topics. 805 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: Let's do it man. Yeah. In the meantime, if you 806 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 2: want to suggest some Middle Eastern topics for us, you 807 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 2: can send us an email to Stuff podcast at House 808 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 2: stufforks dot com and, as always, hang out at our 809 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 2: beautiful home on the web, Stuff Youshould Know dot com. 810 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 811 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 812 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.