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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's came this budget thing is going

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Speaker 1: to do nothing Space Force. I still think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: President Trump not playing his cards yet. Headlines Policy and

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Speaker 1: politics colliding Floomberg Sound On, the Insiders, the influencers, the insides.

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Speaker 1: I would rather see a congressional solution. It's part of

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Speaker 1: my DNA. The Senate map in looks a lot different

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Speaker 1: than it looked in. You really have a divide within

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Speaker 1: Team Trump. The President has to do exactly what people

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Speaker 1: send him here to do, which is to get it done.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: one and one oh five point seven f m h

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Speaker 1: D two. Republican report finds no impeachable offenses, just disagreements.

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Speaker 1: The latest on the impeachment inquiry, this ahead of that

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Speaker 1: key vote coming tomorrow night at six pm. Plus the

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Speaker 1: President tweeting about unmasking the real foe for US farmers

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Speaker 1: is it China? The latest on the US China trade

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Speaker 1: front as well, and all of that, plus the ongoing

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Speaker 1: back and forth up on Capitol Hill with U S

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Speaker 1: m c A. Frank Massano's here partner at brace Bell's

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Speaker 1: Policy Resolution Group. He's the former Press secretary to several

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Speaker 1: Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill, including Indiana Senator Richard Lugar

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Speaker 1: and Michael Starr Hopkins, a Democratic strategist, a founding partner

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Speaker 1: at Northern Star Strategies and has worked for Obama, Clinton

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Speaker 1: and the Delaney campaigns. Let's start with impeachment. So the president,

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Speaker 1: did you see this? The President is going to London

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Speaker 1: for the NATO summit, and he this the Judiciary committees

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Speaker 1: doing their thing. And I'll read from the Bloomberg terminal

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Speaker 1: just to catch everybody up to speed. Billy House is

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Speaker 1: reporting a hundred and ten page report from Republican lawmakers

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Speaker 1: concludes the Democratic led House investigation of Donald Trump failed

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Speaker 1: to establish any impeachable offenses and instead paints a picture

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Speaker 1: of unelected bureaucrats disagreeing with the President's style, worldview and

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Speaker 1: foreign policy decisions. Now this comes ahead of the House

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Speaker 1: Intel vote tomorrow. They've released their conclusions ahead of the

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Speaker 1: Democrats vote. Now it's going to be a party line

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Speaker 1: vote expected, and then it will go to the House

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Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee. They're they're heading along to the impeachment stuff.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to what President Trump said earlier today

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Speaker 1: about the impeachment hoax, as he calls it here is

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Speaker 1: so it's an absolute disgrace what they're doing to our country.

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Speaker 1: And then if that wasn't enough, President Trump also had

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Speaker 1: stuff to say about President Vladimir Zalinsky of Ukraine. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to that. He just came out a little

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Speaker 1: while ago and he said President Trump did absolutely nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong and that should end everything. But it will never

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Speaker 1: end it because they want to do what they want

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Speaker 1: to do. I mean, it's like this never ending, never

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Speaker 1: ending saga. Let's start with Frank, Well, listen, where to start.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things that he does that

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Speaker 1: I would never do, right, Like, they'll talk to the

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Speaker 1: press as much as he does, and you know love that,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, as a as a communications advisor,

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Speaker 1: you want to just sometimes say, you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: need to say that, tweet that, or you don't need

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Speaker 1: to say that much. So I mean there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that he's doing, um that you know just

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Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be done. But again, we're we're inside the beltway, right,

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Speaker 1: and um, a lot of people outside the beltway, in

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Speaker 1: the hinter lands who they voted for that right, and

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly reminding people that they wanted somebody to come

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Speaker 1: here and shake the place. Wheren't you grow up, Frank,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Detroit. See the reason I say

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Speaker 1: this is because you're the type of guy that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump needs. And you can't flip to a Democrat. If

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Speaker 1: you do, if your demographic does that, this thing goes

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Speaker 1: to the I can tell you exactly. Uh. You know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: I'm from Macomb County, Michigan. Everybody knows David Bonn your country.

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Speaker 1: And you know, David Bonner was that pro life Democrat

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Speaker 1: who you know, always the Reagan Democrat, right, it's the

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Speaker 1: It's Kennedy Catholic exactly. And and for the first time

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about this earlier, for the first

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Speaker 1: time since Reagan um those Democrats and away from the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party. They voted for Obama, they voted for Carry,

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Speaker 1: they voted for Duke Caucus right back to eight before

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Speaker 1: many of you guys were around. But they didn't vote

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Speaker 1: for voted for Trump. Seventy them strong. And you know

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Speaker 1: that one Pennsylvania, that one Michigan, that one Wisconsin that

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Speaker 1: gave him an overwhelming win in Ohio, places like that,

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Speaker 1: and those are the people who, um, who Democrats have

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Speaker 1: to worry about, And those are the people that aren't

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Speaker 1: mad at his trade policy. And with all due respect,

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Speaker 1: not to interrupt you, but with all due respect, Franks,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Michael Uh, with all due respect, they're not

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Speaker 1: talking about uh in Becombe County. Highly doubt that they

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Speaker 1: that they're tuned into this impeachment. I think that that

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Speaker 1: that independent voters are just sort of saying chaos in

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Speaker 1: Washington as usual. They are, But I think what you're

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Speaker 1: seeing is a lot of Republicans voted to kind of

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Speaker 1: blow up the system. Someone's gonna go shake it up,

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Speaker 1: like Frank was saying, um, but a lot of the

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Speaker 1: Trump is definitely shaken it up. He has, she absolutely has.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of the things he promised he hasn't

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Speaker 1: been able to actually implement because he's gotten so off message,

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Speaker 1: because he's been his own worst enemy, and so Republicans

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Speaker 1: what they've had to do for the last almost three

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Speaker 1: years was defend his every decision, defend his every whim.

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Speaker 1: So this election is gonna really going to be about

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Speaker 1: our Republicans tired of defending the president. Well, did you

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Speaker 1: see this on Meet the Press yesterday. I grew up

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Speaker 1: watching God I can't. I feel like you know what,

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Speaker 1: I need some. I need some. I'm gonna go back

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Speaker 1: tonight and read a Tim Russert's book. Uh So. Senator

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Speaker 1: John Kennedy, a Republican from Louisiana, was on was on

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Speaker 1: Meet the Press yesterday. Did you see this? It was

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Speaker 1: a blow up interview. Take a listen to this from

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Speaker 1: from Senator Kennedy. Have they allowed the president to call

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Speaker 1: his own witnesses? No? Have they allowed him to have

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Speaker 1: his lawyer president No? Have they allowed him to offer

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Speaker 1: Rebubb Levins No. Have they allowed him to cross examine

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Speaker 1: the witnesses that we're handpicked Moss Baker Pelosi. No. So

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Speaker 1: then you get a situation though, where he was invited

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Speaker 1: President Trump invited to testify. He says he's going to London,

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Speaker 1: going to NATO. We'll talk about NATO coming up by

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Speaker 1: the way, ton to one package there. But attorneys. Will

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Speaker 1: he send his attorneys? You know? Will he have this

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Speaker 1: this um? Will he participate in this? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems like at the end Democrats were

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Speaker 1: trying to play ball with Republicans. But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Democrats. Yeah, but Democrats really kind of setting

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Speaker 1: the stage and setting the scene for how this entire

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Speaker 1: impeachment saga was going to play out. Michael, Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean we all knew that the president really wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to participate in this because he's called these hearings a

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Speaker 1: sham from the start. So if he participates, then there's

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Speaker 1: a air of legitimacy. Uh, he gives it. But to

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Speaker 1: go back to Senator Kennedy's comments, there's so many falsehoods

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Speaker 1: in that that are so problematic. I mean, Republicans did

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to have witnesses called that they wanted called.

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Speaker 1: They did have the opportunity to cross uh, witnesses that

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Speaker 1: were put forth by both Democrats and Republicans. And these

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Speaker 1: are the rules that were implemented under Clinton, and you know,

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Speaker 1: have been the rules for a while. So this this

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Speaker 1: notion that somehow Democrats have manipulated the rules, it's just

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Speaker 1: really false. And it's sad to see someone like Senator

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Speaker 1: Kennedy who knows better and who knows the real facts

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Speaker 1: about Russian whether Russia interfered in our election, and the

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Speaker 1: fact that Ukraine wasn't the one who interfered in our election.

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Speaker 1: He knows better than this kind of stuff. But again,

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Speaker 1: and we're starting to get bogged down in a lot

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Speaker 1: of the details, right, And what what what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: here is that Republicans and Democrats are staying on their

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Speaker 1: sides of the fence, right, And that is the key

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Speaker 1: to this whole thing. It allows John Kennedy to say

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Speaker 1: what he wants, no matter how times Jake Tapper tries

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Speaker 1: to truth squad him, or or or Chuck Todd or

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Speaker 1: anybody else. Right, the reality is, you know, these guys

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Speaker 1: are choosing sides now because no one is forcing them

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Speaker 1: not to choose sides. And I feel like that's a

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Speaker 1: big reason why. You know, you're looking at polling numbers

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Speaker 1: in the marginal into the states that are in play

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Speaker 1: and independence are not going toward impeachment. And I think

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Speaker 1: that continues to be a problem for Democrats, it continues

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Speaker 1: to be a problem for um bipartisanship in the process,

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Speaker 1: no matter how you slice it. I mean, just as

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Speaker 1: a journalist, right, studying journalism at Penn State where I

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Speaker 1: went to school, and here all the president's men and

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Speaker 1: what word emergency an impeachment, high crimes and misdemeanors and Michael.

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Speaker 1: I'm just not sure that Speaker Pelosi has been able

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Speaker 1: to convince Yes, she convinced her base, Yes, she convinced Democrats.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure she's been able to convince independent voters

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Speaker 1: take lawmakers out of it, that this meets the threshold

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Speaker 1: of Nixon. Now, maybe something will happen, maybe, I'm but

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Speaker 1: as of today, as of tonight, I just don't see

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Speaker 1: that based upon my report, because every Republican is standing

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Speaker 1: by them, and Republicans up on Cap Hill just released

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Speaker 1: a hundred and ten page report saying that this is

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Speaker 1: all just politics. Well, I think that shows how broken

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Speaker 1: our political ecosystem is. Um, you know, broken, it's busted,

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Speaker 1: shattered in a trillion little pieces. I mean, hey, if

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Speaker 1: I'm an optimist, you know, even after the Eagles blew

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Speaker 1: it against the Miami Dolphins. Sorry I'm interrupting, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that was a brutal but my whole pione

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Speaker 1: was blowing up. That Brooks of r j C was

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Speaker 1: texting me some things that we won't repeat about how

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Speaker 1: bad the Eagles did Washington Redskins. They got to play

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Speaker 1: the Lions, which is obviously a gift so we got

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Speaker 1: to play the Miami Dolphins and we blew it. Carson

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Speaker 1: wentz blew it. Go ahead. Yeah. I mean the political

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Speaker 1: ecosystem is so broken because what we basically have our

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Speaker 1: echo chambers, and there are Democrats are hearing one thing

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Speaker 1: and Republicans are hearing another thing, and everyone is kind

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Speaker 1: of going to their corners and finding news or opinion

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Speaker 1: that validates what they already believe. LUs. I also think

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Speaker 1: there's something called Mueller fatigue. Frank, I think I think

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Speaker 1: the whole country went through fatigue. It's Trump fatigue generally,

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Speaker 1: because we have so much stuff that we've been pounded

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Speaker 1: on since decem since August of the first day he

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Speaker 1: came down those steps, right, And I mean, I'll be

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Speaker 1: I'll admit I was one of the first guys who

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Speaker 1: when somebody said what do you think of Trump? I said,

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Speaker 1: he'll be out and it's he's the Howard Stern candidate. Right.

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Speaker 1: Remember when Howard Stern for governor, he was out in

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Speaker 1: a month because he didn't want to open up all

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Speaker 1: his private stuff. And I think I think that's the

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Speaker 1: same I said the same thing here, and I'm just

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Speaker 1: shocked that we're still here. Four years later doing the

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Speaker 1: same thing over and over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's not just Muller. It's not just impeachment,

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Speaker 1: it's not just Ukraine. It's everything else that we've talked

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Speaker 1: about Trump staff leaving to you know, everything that could

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Speaker 1: hurt Trump, right because it hurt Hillary Clinton, the Benghazi fatigue,

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Speaker 1: the email fatigue. People were like enough already, you know,

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Speaker 1: you didn't know what was true, you didn't know what

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Speaker 1: was false, but you were sick of the drama. And

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Speaker 1: so the president thrives on chaos as a political strategy.

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Speaker 1: He has said as much in his own words. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk about the implications of that from a foreign policy

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Speaker 1: position coming up. But I think the risk for the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party right now is if people are just if

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Speaker 1: those independent voters in McComb County, in Delaware County, in

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Speaker 1: the Coller counties, Bucks County, uh, if they in northern Virginia, UM,

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Speaker 1: if they if they feel that all right, maybe we

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Speaker 1: want something boring. Well, I was gonna say, to me,

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Speaker 1: that's a secondary issue, right to me. The first issue

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Speaker 1: is in a more worrying concern, is that the fourth

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Speaker 1: month in a row of manufacturing downturns in the manufacturing report.

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Speaker 1: If something happens to the economy, then those issues become

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Speaker 1: more important as part of pushing I'm gonna let that

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Speaker 1: take us to where I want to go. Coming up

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Speaker 1: next with regards to manufacturing, because whether or not that's

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Speaker 1: a trend, or whether or not that's a warning sign

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Speaker 1: or a symptom of a greater problem, will dive into

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Speaker 1: that well. Plus the latest on foreign policy President ari Juan.

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Speaker 1: What the heck is he gonna do? Is he gonna

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Speaker 1: keep buying from the Russians? Will dive into the NATO summit.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I was having a blessed, thankful Thanksgiving until yesterday,

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Speaker 1: when you know, the Philadelphia Eagles just decided to crash

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Speaker 1: and burn down to Miami. And I told Patrick Murphy

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Speaker 1: the same thing. My whole phone was not Hopefully my

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Speaker 1: phone doesn't get act from yesterday because it was not

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Speaker 1: a lot of good things about my beloved Eagles. Panel

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Speaker 1: stays Michael's Washington d C's Michael Starr, Hopkins, Macomb Counties,

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Speaker 1: Frank Massano, I'm Delcos, Kevin Sirelli. You're listening to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Sound on with Kevin Surreley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven F M h D two.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like we should have some Rage

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Speaker 1: against the Machine on you know, they are coming back

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Speaker 1: and doing I always get in trouble for not introducing

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Speaker 1: the guests before they started talking. So that's Michael star Hopkins,

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Speaker 1: Democratic strategist and Frank Massano. He's a Republican at g W.

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Speaker 1: You teach now and he's in a Rage against the

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Speaker 1: Machine fan. I'm a massive Bruce Springsteen, you too, Christine

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Speaker 1: Barrata are executive producer. Just put in our group chat

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Speaker 1: for the all the people working on this program, Rage

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Speaker 1: exclamation point, just gratitude. One great story. I was at

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Speaker 1: the two thousand Democratic Convention in Los Angeles at the

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Speaker 1: Staples Center, which poses a Democratic Republican. Well, I go

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Speaker 1: to both, right, So when Rage had that epic show

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Speaker 1: outside that was on MTV and it was one of

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Speaker 1: the I've been to a lot of concerts, it was

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Speaker 1: the best concert I've ever been, really, And it's coming

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Speaker 1: up the twentieth anniversary and I'm hoping that Rage will

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Speaker 1: do another show like that in Milwaukee. You both might

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Speaker 1: know Kapri Caafar o Coprek Comers, good friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: good friend of the program, Democratic strategies. Huge rage against

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Speaker 1: the machine. Uh, huge rage against the machine fans. So hey,

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Speaker 1: you know who knows? All right, So we were talking

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Speaker 1: about impeachment. Finally let's get back to uh, the policy,

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Speaker 1: and I want to talk about NATO. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about foreign policy. This is, you know, really interesting stuff, folks.

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Speaker 1: President Trump. He's in London for NATO seventy at the

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Speaker 1: Anniversity's anniversary seventy years. I just want to slow down

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Speaker 1: for a second. Seventy years. NATO has been going around

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Speaker 1: for I remember covering candidate Donald Trump and all of

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Speaker 1: his campaign rallies. I would go to like six a day,

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Speaker 1: all of his rallies, and he would say on the

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Speaker 1: trail he wasn't a fan of NATO, wasn't a fan

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Speaker 1: of NATO. What's interesting now is the coverage, whether it's CNN, NBC,

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Speaker 1: Fox News, all they're saying is it's not just President

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Speaker 1: Trump heading into this seventy anniversary summit with regards to

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Speaker 1: NATO who is criticis sizing NATO. It's also French President

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Speaker 1: Manuel McCrone who says it's for lack of a better term.

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Speaker 1: It's quote unquote brain death is what NATO is experiencing.

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Speaker 1: Then you look at Turkish President er Tawan, who was

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Speaker 1: at the White House the other week. He's buying weapons

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Speaker 1: from Russia, which is probably I don't I mean, one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest do not dues if you join NATO

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Speaker 1: pretty much means you're not going to buy weapons from Russia.

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Speaker 1: Turkeys saying that they're gonna do that and that they're

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Speaker 1: still moving on that front, not to mention Turkeys Turkish

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Speaker 1: actions with regards to Northern Syria. So how relevant Frank

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Speaker 1: Massano is NATO today? Well, I mean, look, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of groups like NATO, who you know, bring

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Speaker 1: people together, whether it's G twenty or whatever. Those groups

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Speaker 1: are important in terms of trying to get people on

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Speaker 1: the same page. Now, is it just like referees, they're

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Speaker 1: easy to beat up on, right, So a lot of

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Speaker 1: times were like Carson what I think a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times they want to, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's easy for Macrown and others now to take out

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Speaker 1: the wood and hit a NATO over the head that

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Speaker 1: they're not being good enough to to try and solve

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Speaker 1: domestic problems. Right, because they've seen Trump do it and

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Speaker 1: now they have an excuse to do it. So I

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Speaker 1: think there's a little bit of that going on here.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, like like referees, NATO

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Speaker 1: just has to kind of turn their ears out and

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Speaker 1: do it. And what we've noticed, though, is that you've

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Speaker 1: seen increased defense payments from some of these countries as

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Speaker 1: a result of well it's not just as a result

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Speaker 1: of Trump, but Trump is a factor in that. But

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Speaker 1: certainly Trump should get some of the credit for that

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Speaker 1: because he's been banging on that message and now others

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Speaker 1: have picked up that mantle too, So I think you're

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Speaker 1: seeing what you're seeing that and I think, um, I

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Speaker 1: think that's part of the reason why more people are

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Speaker 1: being picky, more people are being uh, criticizing NATO, because

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Speaker 1: it gives them a chance to do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You also have a lot of nationalist sentiment, um and

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Speaker 1: not just you know, people talk about national sentiment here

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Speaker 1: in the US, but it's happening in Europe. It's happening

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Speaker 1: in a lot of places. And I think part of

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Speaker 1: that is what um, those local those national politicians in

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Speaker 1: Europe are are sensing as well, and they're using it,

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Speaker 1: and the nationalism that we're seeing now in the US

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Speaker 1: has kind of been trickled over from what's going on

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Speaker 1: across I would like to remind people, though, when we

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Speaker 1: talk about NATO, the only country to actually invoke Article

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Speaker 1: nine of NATO is the United States after nine eleven.

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Speaker 1: That's I'm glad you brought that up. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: if that's a question. And so you know, when we

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Speaker 1: talk about NATO, it's not just about securing the world,

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Speaker 1: which is obviously very important, and it's how, you know,

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Speaker 1: we help our allies and also protect ourselves from our adversaries.

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Speaker 1: But NATO has been something that's helped the United States,

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Speaker 1: I mean, during our war on terrorism, NATO has been

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Speaker 1: a huge ally and a huge source of intelligence and information.

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Speaker 1: And so when we talk about NATO, you know, whether

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Speaker 1: it be our troops and troops from countries all around

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Speaker 1: the world, people died to secure the world, and we

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Speaker 1: should mean Article five of NATO is is the corner.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to much, but but you're alluding to

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Speaker 1: Article five, which is really only been invoked since once

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Speaker 1: in NATO's seventy year history. Let's just pause for a second.

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Speaker 1: Seventy years we've had NATO. It's been invoked once Article

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Speaker 1: five and that was after nine eleven. And Article five says,

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Speaker 1: if you attack one of us, you attack all of us.

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Speaker 1: Bush your old buss, right, you worked for the Bush work.

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Speaker 1: But I mean that we all remember those those times

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Speaker 1: when former President George W. Bush you were here and

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Speaker 1: and all of that happened. And I mean, and that's

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Speaker 1: when NATO really mattered. So it's quite I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to I'm not. It's quite interesting, for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better word, to be at this particular moment

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Speaker 1: where air to Wan is buying s four hundred missiles

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Speaker 1: from Russia and is at the White House just the

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Speaker 1: other week. And you've got McCrone and Trump, who ideologically speaking,

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Speaker 1: are very different in terms of their political world views.

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Speaker 1: And mccron doesn't strike me as someone who is anti

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Speaker 1: global alliances. I mean, he's utilized them. He's been a

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Speaker 1: proponent of the Randoclear disarmament deal. He's obviously been a

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Speaker 1: strong proponent of the United Nations. President Trump it fits

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Speaker 1: with his economic nationalist view to be to be more

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Speaker 1: critical of these, but it is quite fascinating just to

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Speaker 1: see the dynamics of play here. But I think so

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Speaker 1: I think you have to look at McCrone and look

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Speaker 1: at what's happening in his country too, Right, he's got

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Speaker 1: the yellow vests out there, um on it from an

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Speaker 1: energy perspective, but also that's a larger movement um that

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Speaker 1: that kind of finds itself with that nationalist kind of

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Speaker 1: approach of putting French people first. And so I think

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Speaker 1: what you're you're seeing that they have to please that

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Speaker 1: master some right, They're not gonna totally tula. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: They're trying to walk a fine line in many of

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Speaker 1: these instances, and it becomes easy for them to make

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Speaker 1: NATO someone who they can challenge. Right. The front runner

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Speaker 1: of the Democratic presidential field, former Vice President Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: said that if President Trump is re elected, NATO will

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Speaker 1: all but be eliminated in the president's second term. But

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Speaker 1: beyond that, just more historically speaking, Michael, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: NATO has done a lot in terms of preventing terrorism.

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Speaker 1: I'm not knocking NATO, but you almost feel that because

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Speaker 1: of the threat against all of the all of our

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Speaker 1: NATO allies is so different, it now pertains to cyber

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Speaker 1: it now pertains to rogue attacks and the like. You

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Speaker 1: almost feel it's not like if NATO went away that

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Speaker 1: the relationships, the special relationships that we have with European

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Speaker 1: allies would would disappear. It wouldn't disappear, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: we can look at what's currently going on, and the

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Speaker 1: weakening of NATO has led to more incursions by Russia.

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Speaker 1: It's led to you know, Ridwan taking on a more

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Speaker 1: authoritarian approach. NATO is important more so because of the

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Speaker 1: way it helps protect borders and ensures that you know,

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Speaker 1: countries like Russia know that there will be some consequences,

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Speaker 1: even if they're not going to be a military um

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Speaker 1: consequence that there is you know aid, military aid that's

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Speaker 1: gonna come through NATO and that's gonna be a last

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Speaker 1: line of defense. I would suggest that a lot of

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Speaker 1: that would still be going on though. UM. A lot

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Speaker 1: of those those challenges, a lot of that consternation UM

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Speaker 1: would still occur um if NATO was there or not

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Speaker 1: so UM just because you have people who are doing

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Speaker 1: their own things right, you have people who are they

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Speaker 1: have and and Trumps is an example of this. Right.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't go through the normal channels that we've gone

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Speaker 1: through in the past, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: these other politicians are viewing it the same way. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're using the Internet, they're using UM, local channels, they're

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Speaker 1: using things that we haven't seen used. And NATO is

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Speaker 1: one of many options And you know, you have a

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Speaker 1: lot of other things too. Write you have the G twenty,

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Speaker 1: you have you have UM, the U n process, UM

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Speaker 1: when it comes to hunger and when it comes to

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Speaker 1: climate change and all these other things. So you have

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Speaker 1: lots of different opportunities to have that international engagement. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you have all of these guys

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Speaker 1: turning inward and starting to say, hey, I'm taking care

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Speaker 1: of my own people. To look at what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: But I will just say NATO does offer a bargaining

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Speaker 1: chip in terms of if you're smaller country, you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll say we'll bring you in. And that's something that

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Speaker 1: we've used against Russia and force Turkey. You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. I'm not talking well, there's legitimate questions about

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Speaker 1: whether Turkey is gonna end up getting kicked out of

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Speaker 1: NATO and whether or not care you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is interesting. All of this is going to be

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Speaker 1: on full display. I'm so excited Wednesday night. Actually, it's

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Speaker 1: it kicks off. It kicks off Wednesday through the end

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Speaker 1: of the week. Before we leave the topic, though, you

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Speaker 1: also have to talk about what Boris Johnson is doing

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Speaker 1: this week, right, go ahead, or Jackson is now trying to,

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Speaker 1: you know, protect himself from Trump a little bit. He's

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Speaker 1: been an ally of Trump in the past, right, and

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Speaker 1: has seen as an ally of Trump, and now he's

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Speaker 1: seen as his buddy. He's pulling back from that, doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to come over because he's in the middle of

427
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 1: an election that UM would would that it would be controversial,

428
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: and so you're seeing it happen on both sides. You're

429
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: seeing that push and pull on both sides um and

430
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: the tensions not only with NATO but also with individual

431
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: meetings and I mean the Macron. This headline Lateral will

432
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: be an interesting one. This headline from CNBC A toxic

433
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: political force Westminster wary of Trump's visit just days before

434
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: the UK election. That is fascinating because everybody thought they

435
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: were going to be you know yang, Yeah, like just

436
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't miss the irony and the fact

437
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: that Boris Johnson is basically saying to Trump, I don't

438
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: really know the guy that is the Trump move and

439
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: now it's getting turned on him. It's so, it's it

440
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 1: is interesting and just again. The International Democrat uh Union

441
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: is having their annual Forum in Washington this week, which

442
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: is a gathering of all of the political parties around

443
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: the world, hosting different summits and the like. And I'm

444
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: sure NATO and the role of all of that will

445
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: be discussed coming up. We're gonna talk much more politics

446
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: and policy. We're gonna dive into manufacturing numbers. Plus what's

447
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: on the panel's radar. Michael Starr Hopkins, Frank Massano. Download

448
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Sound On podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg

449
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: dot Com, or the Bloomberg Business app. You can also

450
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: find us on Radio dot Com, I Heart Radio and Spotify.

451
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Sirelli. You're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to

452
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Surrele on Bloomberg and one

453
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: oh five point seven fm h D two Kevin CURRELLI Micro.

454
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: Michael Starr Hopkins is here. Democratic strategist Frank Massano partner

455
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: brace Wells Policy Resolution Group. He's a former Press secretary

456
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: to a bunch of Republican lawmakers. And he's a professor

457
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: at GW molding the mind of GW. Michael Star Hopkins.

458
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: You just launched your new firm. I did Northern State.

459
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: I'm my own boss. F You go to school, So

460
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: I went to Eckard College in Florida UNDERGRADU went to

461
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: Cardozo for law school. Um I went to Syracuse for

462
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: grad school. Study a little national security. Okay, just chalking

463
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 1: up the student laws. You ever be Were you ever

464
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: on an airplane and you got to turn the phone

465
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: on airplane mode, you know, and then and like the

466
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: flight attendants come around, yeah there' and you're like, alright, alright,

467
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: turd on my phone. And then the second get touched down,

468
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: you go right in and what do you do. You

469
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: check Twitter and you tweet something if you're President Trump.

470
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: And that's what he did because within the last sixteen minutes,

471
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: the President has been tweeting since landing in the United

472
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: Kingdom for or the NATO summit, and the first thing

473
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: he tweeted sixteen minutes ago the Fed should lower rates.

474
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: There is almost no inflation and loosen making us competitive

475
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: with other nations and manufacturing will soar dollar is very

476
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: strong relative to others. He then had a follow up tweet,

477
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: just landed in the United Kingdom heading to London for

478
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: NATO meetings tomorrow, he read the Republicans report on impeachment

479
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: and he says, great job. Radical left has no case.

480
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: Let's go to the Fed tweet first, because Frank, you

481
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 1: and I were talking about this in the break about

482
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: the manufacturing numbers. Clearly those are on the President's mind.

483
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: They've been a bit disappointing. It's been the one blemish

484
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: in an otherwise steady strong economy and economic indicators that

485
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: would bolster the Republican case heading into well, let's be

486
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: clear of the manufacturing numbers jumped up aggressively and now

487
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,239
Speaker 1: they've kind of leveled off. And I think part of

488
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: that problem is because there's a natural impact um his

489
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: trade policies on manufacturers and what he what I think

490
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: he misses in a lot of union guys miss who

491
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: support those policies are the residual impacts of the trade

492
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: policy on importers and people who make things here but

493
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: use things from other places. Right, I mean, specifically look

494
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: at farmers. I mean his trade policy has decimated farmers

495
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: across the Midwest, and those farmers not only have mortgages

496
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: on their farm, but have mortgages on the equipment for

497
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: that farm and for their actual products themselves. And so

498
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you run out of money for your farm,

499
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: the first thing you start doing is canceling on all

500
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: that debt, and that's going to have a real impact. Well,

501
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: and there was another couple of issues related to farms too.

502
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: They had some bad weather that hurt them, and so

503
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: that was another factor. And of course they're running around

504
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: really blaming the ethanol policy in this country, even though

505
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: the President has actually been pretty good for them on

506
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: ethanol policy. Um to to to say that that was

507
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: part of the problem too, And you know, really, I

508
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: think you're right, Michael, is really more of this trade

509
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: policy that has really undermined what they're doing there. Ironically, um,

510
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: they seem to still be strongly in favor of the president.

511
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: Uh you know, uh if you look at the polling

512
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: and Secretary of Commerce Wilbert Ross talked to Fox Business

513
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: earlier today and said that President Trump's gonna add more

514
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: tariffs against China if they don't get an agreement by December.

515
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: The meanwhile, U s m c A. Who knows, who

516
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: knows coming up? What's on the panel's radar. I'm Kevin SURLEI.

517
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg nine one. You're listening to Bloomberg.

518
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: Sound on with Kevin Surley on Bloomberg and one oh

519
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: five point seven F M H D two. Really, I'm

520
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: joined by Michael Starr Hopkins, the Democrat, Frank Massano, the Republican. Uh, Frank,

521
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: you've had a you know, your kids, about a good

522
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: couple of days. You've got your daughters, she got a

523
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: driver's license today, your youngest, you got another qualified for

524
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: the Boston Marathon's right, and my third, my oldest one

525
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: is a senior at Wellesley. She just played in the

526
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: National Senior Game for Division three up in in Pennsylvania

527
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: where the senior All Star games. So it's been a

528
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: it's been a very good couple of weeks for us

529
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: here for the Messanos taking names, and you know, although

530
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: it's not been good for my insurance premium just tripled again.

531
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: So here do we gotta have someone offrom the insurance

532
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: to call about that. We all have this, you know,

533
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: in a town of spinsters, you know, if everyone's spinning

534
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: the left the right. They're telling you this. They're telling

535
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: you that big business, small business. We all go to spinning.

536
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: So we're talking about this in the break. You're a

537
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: peloton guy, Frank, You're a flywheel, a soul. See there

538
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: you go. I was spinning when I was a kid.

539
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: My mom and I would go before school at the

540
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: y m c A. So I was spinning before all

541
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: these trends, you know. But we were talking about what

542
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: what what your Your ideal soundtrack is on the bike

543
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: on the country. I love when I when we do

544
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: country music, that's like my favorite. I need some good

545
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: pump up, So it's gotta be probably some hip hop

546
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: or some Taylor Swift right school or new school Tay.

547
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: Probably new school Taylor, old school Taylor. SI was a a

548
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: lot more just like strumming the guitar. It was like

549
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: the angry favorite I like, I like the country type.

550
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: And this is going to surprise you, but I either

551
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: go with a little Metallica or rage that rock and

552
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: then and then obviously telling you that I did a

553
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: rocky horror picture show right the other was hilarious. I

554
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: mean I've only seen like six times, so Frank, I

555
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: gotta give you a credit, buddy, because that stunned me.

556
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: And uh, It's like when my mom came back, like

557
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: she still goes to the same Y m C A

558
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: class and she said, oh, did you hear that that

559
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: one song? American American Sweetheart song? I was like, Mom,

560
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: what are you even l l king? She was like

561
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: the biggest l king fan my mom. Anyway, back to

562
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: back on topic, what's on your radar? I'm gonna kick

563
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: things off because this new redhead just crossed the Bloomberg

564
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: terminal and it's on my radar. The US proposes two

565
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: point four billion dollars worth of tariffs on French goods

566
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: regarding the digital tax. Again, the headlines running rampant across

567
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal a red headline. The US proposed tariffs

568
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: on roughly two point four billion dollars in French products

569
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: in response to attacks on digital revenues that hits large

570
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: American tech companies, including Google, Apple, Facebook, and Amazon. France's

571
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: digital services tax discriminates against US compass companies, the Office

572
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: of the United States Trade Representatives said in a statement.

573
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: Just crossing the Bloomberg terminal within the last few minutes, again,

574
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm reading from the Bloomberg terminal, red headline. US proposes

575
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: two point four billion dollars worth of tariffs on French

576
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: goods over digital tax more tariffs, fokes, more tariffs. So

577
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: that's what's on my radar, Frank, what's on your radio today?

578
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: In Spain and Madrid started copy, which is the conference

579
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: of parties of the u n's Climate change meetings that

580
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: they have annually in December. Of course, last week you

581
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: saw a bunch of news stories about UM in create

582
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: we've got to do something, We've got to do something,

583
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: We've got to do something. That scientists are saying that

584
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: and so that's I feel like that's something we hear

585
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: all the time before these uh, these these meetings start.

586
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: But you know, I guess there we really are getting

587
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: to a more serious stage where there's something where we

588
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: have to have some action and the question is what

589
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: is that actually going to be? And that's what they're

590
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: talking about at that at that meeting. So we'll continue

591
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: to see what happens. We're monitoring it. UM, you've got

592
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: you go to read its interesting because what everyone in Washington,

593
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: if you don't know Frank. From his note, he writes

594
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: a d go to energy sector note that you have

595
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: to read if you if you follow energy policy. Yes,

596
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: and and and we did talk a little bit about

597
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: climate in the meetings today. And the interesting thing is

598
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: nobody from the White House is going. There are people

599
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: from the States, Barman and Try and Treasury and all

600
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: those places are going, but the White House is not

601
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: sending in the last guy who went for the White

602
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: House was Dave Banks, of course, who has been gone

603
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: for over a year now. Um, so they're not going.

604
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: Although Pelosi, Nancy Speaker Pelosi and a number of Democrats

605
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: are going, and uh, even in the midst of all

606
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: the budget and stuff. So we'll see what happens. The

607
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: big fight is over whether Trump should do something or not,

608
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: and he's not. Meanwhile, what's on your radar, Michael. We

609
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: talked a lot about the Lions today. So the Lions

610
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: have signed Kyle Sloder and Joe Callahan, two players not

611
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: named Kalen Kaepernick, to their team. That's huge. No, we

612
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: were talking about this last week. We have thirty seconds,

613
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that Kaepernick has still not been

614
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: picked up and it and it is a political story

615
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: that's such a great These two guys are I mean,

616
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: no one knows who they are. They obviously they're not calling. Why.

617
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: I wonder why. I wonder why. I mean, I have

618
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: my views on it, but I wonder what Colin Kaepernick

619
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: is gonna do now. I think he ends up soing

620
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: the NFL again. Really yeah, I just think he could.

621
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if he'll sue. I mean, reviously likely that

622
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: will happen. But I wonder how he would use his

623
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: microphone for not away from using him not shied away.

624
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: And he's got such a following I wanted that's a

625
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: perfect note to take. How it wouldn't help. I don't

626
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: even want to try. I said enough about Carson Wentz.

627
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: All right, I'm thankful, I'm grateful. How will you use

628
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: your microphone? I'm Kevin SERELLI. You're listening to Bloomberg ninety

629
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: one