Speaker 1: Worrying. Today's episode contains spoilers for episodes seven and eight
Speaker 1: of Mall Shadow Lord. You warn't We're in it. Hello.
Speaker 1: It is Jasconcepcion and I'm Rosie Knight and welcome back
Speaker 1: to xtra Vision, the podcast where we dive deep into
Speaker 1: your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.
Speaker 2: You from my heart.
Speaker 1: We're bringing you three episodes a.
Speaker 2: Week past news on Saturday. But today it's not news.
Speaker 3: Well it kinda is, because we're going to be giving
Speaker 3: you news from the mid Rim. Yes, it is more
Speaker 3: Shadow Lord episodes one O seven and one O eight.
Speaker 3: Me and Jason will be recapping them and reacting, and
Speaker 3: then of course we'll be inviting super producer Joe Allen
Speaker 3: to talk a little bit more about what's going on,
Speaker 3: what questions she has, and what we want to see
Speaker 3: from the final two episodes of Dave Feloni's newist Star
Speaker 3: Wars animated show.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: More.
Speaker 3: Chapter seven, The Call to Oblivion, the Superstar Destroyer hovers
Speaker 3: over Jane's as the city is put into lockdown under
Speaker 3: Empire forces.
Speaker 2: I do love to see a Superstar Destroyer.
Speaker 3: You can't lie like you love to see every it's
Speaker 3: an ominous figure in the skies, but it makes you
Speaker 3: feel excited as a Star Wars fan.
Speaker 1: Yes, an inspiring site.
Speaker 3: Inspiring site deep under the streets of Janix, though, More
Speaker 3: leads Riley and Devon to a certain kind of safety,
Speaker 3: despite the fact that neither of them really want to
Speaker 3: trust him. More offers to get the pair offworld if
Speaker 3: they need it, but it's not enough to make Devon
Speaker 3: trust him. Meanwhile, Daki and Lawson wander the streets looking
Speaker 3: for their children. Bad dads, both of them not winning
Speaker 3: on the dad front, like maure is with your child
Speaker 3: the guy who looks like the villain from Insidious, like
Speaker 3: that's who has your childrens the only sith that neither
Speaker 3: of you know who runs a crime syndicate, like come on,
Speaker 3: they look for the children, and Daki is basically giving
Speaker 3: him like et Honestly, you know, I'm not a lawsome fan,
Speaker 3: but Daki was giving him like the worst basist, like
Speaker 3: just Jedi advice like will be peaceful, like blah blah
Speaker 3: blah bah. Not useful, right this guy. I mean, we
Speaker 3: talked about this last week when you weren't here. Do
Speaker 3: you think that the do you think that the show
Speaker 3: is making Jedi philosophy look cool?
Speaker 2: No, no, so do you think that it is?
Speaker 1: And I think that this might be what it's doing
Speaker 1: though very kind of subtly, is making it look out
Speaker 1: of touch on purpose?
Speaker 2: Interesting?
Speaker 3: I agree, I do think it's making it look out
Speaker 3: of touch. And I do think specifically having the only
Speaker 3: representation of the Jedib someone who's so by the book,
Speaker 3: who doesn't even believe in like, you know, these aren't
Speaker 3: the apples you're looking for. He doesn't believe in using
Speaker 3: the force for anything other than like to protect civilians
Speaker 3: and stuff.
Speaker 2: So yeah, actually I.
Speaker 3: Think that's a really interesting point. I will say, yeah, Daki,
Speaker 3: he's a very.
Speaker 2: Old school guy.
Speaker 3: He's not doing a great job. I don't really know
Speaker 3: what's driving Devon. And obviously Maul is the most interesting
Speaker 3: character here, and he's talking a lot more about the
Speaker 3: juxtaposition between the dark and the light and the Jedi
Speaker 3: and the Sith. So I think that, you know, maybe
Speaker 3: that's to make more seem cooler, and it does, you know,
Speaker 3: but yeah, very interesting point. I definitely don't think the
Speaker 3: Jedi are coming across well here. Also, I feel like
Speaker 3: Daki is like the most obvious Jedi that should have
Speaker 3: gotten got.
Speaker 2: In Order sixty six.
Speaker 3: I know we talk about how useless Order sixty six is,
Speaker 3: but I feel like he's so obviously that Jedi, like
Speaker 3: they should have got him, Like he shouldn't have been.
Speaker 2: Hard to get so under the ground.
Speaker 3: Rook Cast couldn't be madder that Maul was like, why
Speaker 3: are you bringing these fucking children? Like why are you
Speaker 3: bringing them to the lair like a cops child.
Speaker 2: By the way, Riley's name, I.
Speaker 3: Think because of Star Wars naming conventions, but it cracks
Speaker 3: me up every time I.
Speaker 2: See it r y l Ee. So it's really giving,
Speaker 2: Like those women.
Speaker 3: On Tumbler, you know, who have like Kaylee but spelt
Speaker 3: the most arranged way you could ever imagine. Devin is
Speaker 3: like I need to save my master. Who else will
Speaker 3: give me boring Jedi advice that I will never.
Speaker 2: Be able to who else will let me get arrested?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Who else amongst us would love let me starve?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Who will let me starve and get arrested? And More's like, Hey,
Speaker 3: don't worry, just come off planet with me, which again
Speaker 3: not a great plan, but he's also like, don't worry,
Speaker 3: I'll reveal what my plan is when we get off planet,
Speaker 3: like sure, sure, and Devon's like, okay, look, I'm not dumb.
Speaker 3: I've been around manipulative men with the force all my life.
Speaker 3: And fortunately Mare doesn't really have time to play miss
Speaker 3: the nice guy, so he shakes her trust a little
Speaker 3: by force freezing her to stop.
Speaker 2: Her escape, which is very very.
Speaker 3: I found this to actually be like a very scary
Speaker 3: reminder of like who More actually is. Yes, he's not
Speaker 3: actually like this kind of great liberator, he's not really
Speaker 3: this conflicted person.
Speaker 2: He wants her to be a weapon, and.
Speaker 3: Obviously that's this really great moment of conflict that's then
Speaker 3: followed by this really fun action scene as they have
Speaker 3: to fight alongside each other to get away from the Empire,
Speaker 3: who turn up with an army of stormtroopers to take Riley. Then,
Speaker 3: well this is crazy. We see the Inquisitor head back
Speaker 3: out to finally try and achieve his mission, but he
Speaker 3: is stopped by the Eleventh Brother, who, if you remember,
Speaker 3: is the extreme.
Speaker 2: Bird mast Inquisitor.
Speaker 3: It's like kind of like a bird skull debut entails
Speaker 3: of the Jedi, and everyone was like, oh no, he's
Speaker 3: so cool, We'll never see him again incorrect.
Speaker 2: He's back, yeah, and now.
Speaker 3: Uh, Devin and Daki's fight is like, we've got to
Speaker 3: get Riley back from the stormtroopers. Speaking of Riley, Snitch
Speaker 3: bought two boots, has had his two boots taken off
Speaker 3: of him.
Speaker 2: Imagine that they took his boots.
Speaker 3: He licked the boots and they still took him and
Speaker 3: is starting to realize that maybe calling in the Empire
Speaker 3: wasn't the best, Like.
Speaker 1: My whole my whole thing was like, let's call the Empire,
Speaker 1: and it kind of feels like that was a mistake.
Speaker 3: Like Jason, if you're looking at that as like a
Speaker 3: play by play, it's not looking good, right, Like there's
Speaker 3: nothing good has turned out about it, and he has
Speaker 3: essentially ended up in a position where he's like, now
Speaker 3: they've kidnapped my human.
Speaker 2: Nephew kind of and they keep being.
Speaker 3: Like, we're gonna fucking wipe your memory, like shut the
Speaker 3: fuck up, or we're gonna wipe your memory. So as
Speaker 3: he's learning that, you know, reporting to the Empire was
Speaker 3: not a good idea, Cast is basically on the other
Speaker 3: side of things, convincing more that Devin just loves the Jedi,
Speaker 3: like you're never gonna get her to be what you
Speaker 3: want her to be.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's someone else around like May who's never seen
Speaker 2: You could have been someone you've never seen. And back
Speaker 2: to old two boots.
Speaker 3: He apparently is again getting back into this idea of agency.
Speaker 3: He is programmed so that he can't snitch on the Empire. Apparently,
Speaker 3: it seems, despite the fact.
Speaker 1: Which had questions about that very new programming this pushed out.
Speaker 3: Are they doing like, you know, updates as long as
Speaker 3: your canne Galaxy.
Speaker 2: You are the Superstar Destroyer link, can.
Speaker 1: You get Yeah, you must update all of your droids
Speaker 1: to Galaxy firm where one point five.
Speaker 3: If your droid is asleep between the hours of one
Speaker 3: am and five am, he will get the latest you know,
Speaker 3: jedda update.
Speaker 2: So yeah.
Speaker 3: So he apparently can't do that, and Lawson keeps paging
Speaker 3: him to be like, where's my son?
Speaker 2: You know who you helped raise. Sadly, he can't do
Speaker 2: anything about it, it seems.
Speaker 3: In the lut lush depths of Janex, More and his
Speaker 3: crew try to evade the Empire, but the Inquisitor and
Speaker 3: the Eleventh Brother appeared just in time to take them down.
Speaker 3: It's a pretty epic battle with a crazy Stormtrooper body
Speaker 3: count like crazy body count as Cast in her crew
Speaker 3: just barrage any and all Stormtroopers with non stop bullet fire,
Speaker 3: very cathartic stuff, just like real peak Star Wars.
Speaker 2: Good ship more than the inquisitors face down.
Speaker 3: But they obviously I don't know that Maul is really
Speaker 3: good in three ways, so as they.
Speaker 1: Foa, is that how we're saying it good?
Speaker 3: It didn't actually end well for him actually, so maybe
Speaker 3: he's kind of bad in three ways. But while they fight,
Speaker 3: Barrio tries to take a ship, but instead it's taken
Speaker 3: by three rogue Dark Watch mandos who are sick of
Speaker 3: Cast and Maul's.
Speaker 2: Like lovers drama.
Speaker 3: They're just like, get us out of here and get it.
Speaker 2: I don't blame it, I get it. I do not
Speaker 2: blame them.
Speaker 3: They don't make it far before their ship is shot
Speaker 3: out of the sky. While the Zabrec twins Joelle's favorites
Speaker 3: tried to back more, one of them is killed.
Speaker 1: Rip to that, well, let me just say.
Speaker 2: I talk about it a little.
Speaker 1: I am a little frustrated that we don't know anything about.
Speaker 2: This poor guy, right.
Speaker 5: I feel like he is now deceased it's giving he's
Speaker 5: going to get a book about him, but I don't
Speaker 5: want to wait two years, even though I love that
Speaker 5: they're going to give somebody time to write the book,
Speaker 5: like I need to know about him now.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like this is looking at it
Speaker 1: a little bit, but for a character like mal who
Speaker 1: is trying to reassemble a family around him, m M,
Speaker 1: I thought this would hit harder.
Speaker 3: Agree, And I feel like if we knew more about him,
Speaker 3: it would hit harder as well, Like if we knew.
Speaker 2: More about the relationship. I agree.
Speaker 1: I know I'm sad to see I'm sad to see
Speaker 1: this guy go because you know, again we don't.
Speaker 2: We know very little, so.
Speaker 3: We leave more ultimately at the mercy of the inquisitors.
Speaker 2: Apparently they're head.
Speaker 3: They're on the behalf of the emperor, who's like wants
Speaker 3: to kill him obs. So Maure does a classic Jedi
Speaker 3: trick and just moves a bunch of rocks, this time
Speaker 3: the ones above him, making the cave fall in. We
Speaker 3: love to see a Jedi Force user Sith move some rocks.
Speaker 3: He did it, they caved in. He got away, and
Speaker 3: let's go to an ad break and you can join us.
Speaker 2: For More shadow Lord Chapter eight B.
Speaker 3: However, More Shadow Lord Chapter eight more makes his way
Speaker 3: out of the fallen tunnel system that he brought down
Speaker 3: with his force powers, and so does the Eleventh Brother
Speaker 3: and some of the empire seemingly infinite number of stormtroopers.
Speaker 3: They have a lot of stormtroopers right now, guys like,
Speaker 3: it's kind of crazy and they are just sacrificing every
Speaker 3: single one of them. Moore's little probe droid is out
Speaker 3: looking for it. Master Cast believes More to be missing,
Speaker 3: but is sure he'll find the gang wherever they end up,
Speaker 3: which is the right way to approach it. I think
Speaker 3: Moore has a reflective moment, literally seeing himself as a
Speaker 3: young man in a puddle as his legs malfunction relatable
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six. He just like, I feel like
Speaker 3: that's me. Every day he fights on with his usual
Speaker 3: fury towards his end goal. Riley is still in Empire prison,
Speaker 3: very mad to me that his mom has not turned
Speaker 3: up to save him yet.
Speaker 2: I guess that nepotism.
Speaker 3: Isn't that powerful in the galaxy, or maybe his mom
Speaker 3: really does suck.
Speaker 2: Maybe we've been too hot on Yeah, it might be
Speaker 2: the fact that he hasn't she.
Speaker 3: Hasn't like cooled up and been like hey, let my
Speaker 3: son out of prison, and is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: There must have been something cut out because it feels
Speaker 1: like a real weird miss to not have more of
Speaker 1: her anyway. I would have loved for her to show
Speaker 1: up in Yeah, me too, What's the deal?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 3: Because also the next part I found very confusing, though
Speaker 3: it tells me a lot about how good his parenting was.
Speaker 3: Riley is then like set upon by the election brother
Speaker 3: and was definitely never trained or prepared in any way
Speaker 3: by his father for any kind of interrogation.
Speaker 2: Or his mom. So I feel like they both failed.
Speaker 3: Like this is an era where we've seen Sa Guerrera,
Speaker 3: Like we know what the jedis. The jedis are blindfolding
Speaker 3: kids at a young age and giving them lightsabers.
Speaker 2: Like there's a way that you could have told.
Speaker 3: Him, like, hey man, I work for this force, like
Speaker 3: you might need to one day know, like don't say anything,
Speaker 3: here's what you should say, Here's how you protect yourself.
Speaker 2: Like he is just so.
Speaker 3: Immediately terrified, and I'm like this poor space lacrosse kid,
Speaker 3: like he had no chance.
Speaker 2: You know it's it's not going well for him. He's
Speaker 2: looking very upset.
Speaker 3: Luckily, Laws and Daki and Devon are offered transport by
Speaker 3: Rena remember her, the sexy purple alien informant. But Laws
Speaker 3: is like, no, I can't leave without my son sexy
Speaker 3: informant that I'm definitely having sex with, like remember.
Speaker 2: Him something, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Two Boots quickly realizes, thanks to one human interaction action,
Speaker 3: that the empire is bad.
Speaker 2: Actually so now he can't.
Speaker 1: Help late than never to figure this out.
Speaker 2: We got to welcome in. We got to make the umbrella.
Speaker 3: Bigger for the droids who used to be booth liquors,
Speaker 3: but now they've learned their ways, like.
Speaker 1: And to be clear and to be honest. Like I
Speaker 1: guess that Lawson could have explained his aversion to the
Speaker 1: you know, in non my ex wife terms, Like he
Speaker 1: could have been like, try and you just give him
Speaker 1: some info because two Boots clearly was just like he
Speaker 1: clearly working off, working off the the update and also
Speaker 1: the propaganda. But you know, to slightly defend two Boots,
Speaker 1: he was just doing what the rules say.
Speaker 3: He was exactly you know he at Bart He's now learned,
Speaker 3: and Lawson is like, I'm gonna swap myself for Riley.
Speaker 2: That's I'm who they rarely want. I'm like, do they
Speaker 2: want you?
Speaker 3: Like? Is it that deep?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Are you that important?
Speaker 3: I don't know though, why the Empire would want him
Speaker 3: or would care if they swap places is like definitively unclear.
Speaker 3: As the Empire's grip on Janics becomes stronger, the street's empty.
Speaker 3: We see that kind of imperial shadow spread across the planet.
Speaker 3: Where they used to be fun and juvility, it's very andorish.
Speaker 2: Daki and Devon agreed to help Riley get to the transport.
Speaker 3: If Lawson successfully frees him with the help of two boots,
Speaker 3: he's back.
Speaker 2: He's now using those two boots to stomp on.
Speaker 3: The Protective Services of the Galaxy or whatever they're calling
Speaker 3: the cops. A traumatized Riley is saved by two boots,
Speaker 3: which we love to see, though I have to say
Speaker 3: Riley's looking fucked up, like he's looking wrung out that
Speaker 3: he has been through it. They did some They put
Speaker 3: that fucking alien shit on his head like his dad.
Speaker 3: He's gonna be in therapy for a long time, even
Speaker 3: more so than just you being like an absent Dad,
Speaker 3: We rejoin, We rejoined More as he fights his way
Speaker 3: through a very dusty tunnel, seeing and hearing ghosts from
Speaker 3: his past, like his own brother, Savajah Press and obviously
Speaker 3: Darth Sidious. It is like an existential crisis on a
Speaker 3: major level, but also one that plays the hits, showing
Speaker 3: us how More was tortured and manipulated by Sidious, how
Speaker 3: his brother tried to save him. We get replays of
Speaker 3: his spider legs and a reminder of the vengeance that
Speaker 3: drives him. His anger towards Sidious and all that he
Speaker 3: took from him. His fury fuels him through the dust.
Speaker 3: Devon evades the Empire forces and does her best to
Speaker 3: find a ship to steal so that she and her
Speaker 3: master and potentially Riley can get to a meeting point
Speaker 3: with Sexy Rena and get off the world. Unfortunately, she
Speaker 3: tries to steal from some guys who are already in
Speaker 3: the ship.
Speaker 2: And while we don't see the fight. Weird choice. Yes,
Speaker 2: I feel like this is such a weird choice.
Speaker 3: I do not believe we've gotten the cool, badass moments
Speaker 3: from Devon yet that we could have had. I know,
Speaker 3: maybe this was like an animation speed issue or maybe
Speaker 3: like a money issue, but I was very disappointed. We
Speaker 3: do see that she makes quick work of them, though
Speaker 3: they're all kind of dead or on the floor while
Speaker 3: she flies the ship out of the dock and towards
Speaker 3: her us From Riley speaking of the child, two Boots
Speaker 3: just straight up kills a bunch of Stormtroopers to save him.
Speaker 3: So I gotta say, like the two Boots has joined
Speaker 3: the cause on the right side, and he's like, I've
Speaker 3: got to make up for it. He's giving what's his
Speaker 3: you know, gi Robot Like it's very like, do you
Speaker 3: want to kill Nazis with me? And he's like, I'm
Speaker 3: just gonna kill as many of these Stormtroopers as I need.
Speaker 2: To to get you back to your shit eating.
Speaker 1: It's nice to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm proud of him.
Speaker 3: Rather than Riley and Lawson joining Devon and Daki. He
Speaker 3: lass is like, I am gonna give myself up. But
Speaker 3: when Devon arrives, he gets in her stolen ship with
Speaker 3: two Boots and they head towards the meeting point trail
Speaker 3: by speeder troopers. Nice to see a little speeder chase.
Speaker 3: Devon is apparently a pretty good getaway driver feels like
Speaker 3: they should have been never seing that before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, never driven this ship before and is doing very well.
Speaker 3: That does tie into one of my absolute favorite theories,
Speaker 3: which is everyone who's a force user is a really
Speaker 3: good pilot, right, And that's why I like, you know,
Speaker 3: Hanna is really a force user because he's a really
Speaker 3: good pilot. Because it's the same with even Finn. You know,
Speaker 3: he gets in and he just knows how to use it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, very silly and fun. And while she escapes
Speaker 3: more than seemingly like trapped by his past in the
Speaker 3: tunnels under Janets.
Speaker 2: He is going through it.
Speaker 3: He's going through He's wandering around, his little electric legs
Speaker 3: are shorting out. He's kind of feeling sorry for himself,
Speaker 3: and he's like, I need a back to tank.
Speaker 2: I gotta be inside the back to the tank. And
Speaker 2: I just the whole time, I was like, I just
Speaker 2: feel like he should use the force, to be honest, like.
Speaker 3: Just some way, Like there's something like is the lead
Speaker 3: pipe stopping him from using the force?
Speaker 1: Like I think the fact that he's going through this
Speaker 1: intense emotional turmoil and that we know that his force
Speaker 1: powers are strongest when he is tapped into his hatred
Speaker 1: and here he's just so sad.
Speaker 2: That's true. Oh my god, that's kind.
Speaker 1: That it's weakening him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that read a lot.
Speaker 3: So there's a great moment here where Moore sees crying
Speaker 3: baby more in the reflection of a puddle once again.
Speaker 3: And this was when I was like, Okay, whoever directed
Speaker 3: this episode. Love the Defying Gravity scene in Wicked Part
Speaker 3: one starring Cynthia River and Ariana Grande because it's very
Speaker 3: evocative of the moment when she reaches Alphaba reaches out
Speaker 3: to her younger self before she grabs the one that
Speaker 3: at the broom and starts singing like, oh if you
Speaker 3: cared to find I would actually love to see a
Speaker 3: mashup of Darth Maure doing that. Sam Whitwa, would you
Speaker 3: be interested? We would love to have you sing it anyway.
Speaker 2: Moore is like, I'm never gonna let anyone do this.
Speaker 3: Sidius is never gonna do this again, and it's like,
Speaker 3: too late, baby, He's already doing it. That one like
Speaker 3: it's happened in the elevator to the meeting point.
Speaker 2: They're still on their way. Devon realizes a.
Speaker 3: Trap is a foot I feel like she should have
Speaker 3: realized that before with the force, but you know whatever.
Speaker 3: Lawson doesn't believe it because he's dumb, but Riley does
Speaker 3: because he's like, I've actually hung around with this person.
Speaker 3: They are sensible, and Daki does too. Because of the Force.
Speaker 3: Rena is clearly compromised by the Empire, and now the
Speaker 3: crew must just skip an elevator.
Speaker 2: To their doom.
Speaker 3: And the Inquisitors, of course, they have lightsabers too, so
Speaker 3: it's easy to chop their way out of the elevator.
Speaker 3: And Rina manages to shoot the Empire transport, leaving there
Speaker 3: would be captors stranded. We had to Nicodemus's old office,
Speaker 3: remember him.
Speaker 2: Great name, Love the guy. Love that guy. Rip to
Speaker 2: that man. What about all the murders. He was a
Speaker 2: great guy. It's all good murders.
Speaker 3: Vario Moorland Brook are there hiding out where Vario reveals
Speaker 3: Dunt Dunt Dun that the leader of the Crimson Dawn
Speaker 3: ever heard of it in a solo a Star Wars story.
Speaker 2: Wants to meet. So guess what, guys, things are looking up.
Speaker 2: This is it's happening.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take over the organization. Okay, let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break and we'll.
Speaker 3: Be talk about.
Speaker 1: And we're back. I think that these were the strongest
Speaker 1: episodes of the of the of the series. Let's bring
Speaker 1: in super producer Joelle to discuss your thoughts on these episodes.
Speaker 4: Okay, I have it's okay, it's okay, we're gonna get
Speaker 4: there together. I believe it was Scorn. Scorn was the
Speaker 4: yellow one. He got pushed over, right, it was the
Speaker 4: bigger one who died. Yeah, yeah, that's Scorning.
Speaker 1: Not it was it was Scorn.
Speaker 4: Not Okay, Acres has the flag too close to the
Speaker 4: sun and burn up later.
Speaker 2: I assume, yeah, if we go by the Lord.
Speaker 4: If he's named that for a reason. I would like
Speaker 4: to know what we learned in this episode where we
Speaker 4: finally get Mall reflecting on its past, uh and the
Speaker 4: agony of it all. I've been waiting for this episode.
Speaker 4: This was what I thought the whole season was building
Speaker 4: up to. And while some of it was very like
Speaker 4: emotionally affecting, like you know, crawling through the gutter and
Speaker 4: seeing your pass abuse emotional for anyone, but then I
Speaker 4: don't get a clear idea of what he's trying to
Speaker 4: do with that or how it has changed him or
Speaker 4: why we went on this journey, and maybe I missed it.
Speaker 4: I'm open to that. What did you guys feel about
Speaker 4: his journey?
Speaker 3: I think that for me the episodes worked on an
Speaker 3: emotional level just because I already care about the character, right, Yes,
Speaker 3: But as I mentioned in the recap, it's really a
Speaker 3: greatest hits of what we already know about him. So
Speaker 3: while it did work for me, I think this is
Speaker 3: part of the issue that the show has because they
Speaker 3: said it's not going to be a homework show, right,
Speaker 3: but actually there is a lot of stuff that it
Speaker 3: feels like you have to do homework on because stuff
Speaker 3: is not very fleshed out. Then ironically they add stuff
Speaker 3: like this that is essentially exposition for people who have
Speaker 3: not watched the show before. So it's the stuff that
Speaker 3: they're choosing to say you don't have to do homework about.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they balance those choices correctly. Even
Speaker 2: though I loved that kind.
Speaker 3: Of greatest hits of why Male is who he is like,
Speaker 3: it worked for me.
Speaker 2: But I do think you're.
Speaker 3: Right that do we know more about him and what
Speaker 3: his journey is right now? I don't necessarily know. I
Speaker 3: came out of these two episodes feeling that, but I
Speaker 3: did enjoy them a lot.
Speaker 1: I I agree with that that take. I think that
Speaker 1: what's well. I love the emotional stuff.
Speaker 4: It.
Speaker 1: I love the flashbacks and the kind of emotional engine
Speaker 1: for Maul where you realize just like how traumatizing hurt
Speaker 1: he is by everything that's happened at the end of
Speaker 1: the Clone Wars into up to now. That said, structurally,
Speaker 1: it makes much more sense for that to be in
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end.
Speaker 3: That the tunnels anytime. This could have been much more episode.
Speaker 1: This could have been the first episode him trying to
Speaker 1: find Absolutely and I. And it also kind of dovetails
Speaker 1: into the previous criticism that I that I had, which
Speaker 1: was I feel like when we had twenty plus episodes
Speaker 1: of Clone Wars, right, you could have this kind of
Speaker 1: pacing where character development is a great siloed off in
Speaker 1: one episode, like you just get the one here is
Speaker 1: just the one Ahsoka episode where you find out about
Speaker 1: all the stuff that she's dealing with.
Speaker 2: You don't have full episode what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: With Yeah, and you can treat them like bottle episodes.
Speaker 1: We did get like two and three episode arcs sometimes,
Speaker 1: but you got those like once every one and a
Speaker 1: half seasons or something, and but here it makes more
Speaker 1: sense to thread character development through this. There's only eight episodes,
Speaker 1: thread it all the way through the series, and I
Speaker 1: just feel like to start knowing exactly how torn up
Speaker 1: mal is and then go somewhere from there, like losing
Speaker 1: losing the zabrac Icarus iscris we lost, gone to lose
Speaker 1: like the fact that that didn't land at all. He
Speaker 1: should mall should be fucking torn up about that. How
Speaker 1: many is that left that he knows he's fucking he
Speaker 1: should be devastated about that. And if we get that
Speaker 1: scene in the tunnels earlier, and then each episode you're
Speaker 1: getting a little bit more of like what these people around.
Speaker 2: Him cru and how me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the found family and he's not. And then you
Speaker 1: could kind of dwell on let the let the audience
Speaker 1: dwell on the fact that, like he's assembling these people,
Speaker 1: but he's also not appreciating the time he has with them,
Speaker 1: and then when one of them dies or several of
Speaker 1: them die, it can really hit and I feel like
Speaker 1: they left they left stuff on the table. Now, I
Speaker 1: did like these episodes because of this character development stuff,
Speaker 1: although I agree with the criticism that it wasn't necessary development.
Speaker 1: It was like a lot of retreading of ground that
Speaker 1: we know about. But yeah, I think they love They
Speaker 1: just left emotional, they left juice on the team.
Speaker 3: You know what you touch on something really good there
Speaker 3: and true there because like think about the Star Wars,
Speaker 3: Jedi Survivor games, right, they can introduce characters that you
Speaker 3: don't spend a lot of time with, and then they're
Speaker 3: like this one's lost, this one's dead, and you're like, oh.
Speaker 2: My god, my whole crew. No, I love them, what
Speaker 2: do you mean? Like, And it's because you're invested.
Speaker 3: I feel like they didn't do enough here, Like the
Speaker 3: rook cast for example, like that thing is really something
Speaker 3: that we are more reflecting on her this like idea
Speaker 3: of her being jealous.
Speaker 2: But it's so interesting.
Speaker 3: Even the teaser is interesting, right, And that's what a
Speaker 3: first season is meant to do. And then maybe Dave
Speaker 3: Filoni hears that conversation and he goes, that's exactly what
Speaker 3: I was trying to do, or he goes, oh, it wasn't,
Speaker 3: but season two we're gonna expand you know, that's what
Speaker 3: first seasons are meant to do, but with more with Deva,
Speaker 3: with Daki, I don't know what the tease is. And
Speaker 3: with the Zabracs, I would have liked to have gotten
Speaker 3: to know them and seen that reflection for more of
Speaker 3: he lost his brother, Yeah, you know, that's like the
Speaker 3: biggest loss in his life. I feel like unless the
Speaker 3: next episode is like a bottle episode of Icarus and Scorn,
Speaker 3: which I don't see happening eight nine episodes into a
Speaker 3: ten episode season, but like, I feel like that is
Speaker 3: a missed opportunity for so much gravitas and reflection about
Speaker 3: Savage and about him and about.
Speaker 4: The family they are trying to build what they actually
Speaker 4: mean the impact, there's a lot, and at this point
Speaker 4: I have to wonder, like, are we just doing this
Speaker 4: on purpose? And should this be you know, we've talked
Speaker 4: about this a little bit over the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 4: but like, part of the greatness of Star Wars fandom
Speaker 4: is our ability to fill in the gaps and build
Speaker 4: things out. And I wonder if at this point the
Speaker 4: directive isn't don't get too deep on these side characters,
Speaker 4: leave them open for potential war detail building.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it does make sense because for one was
Speaker 3: the original fan who filled it all out, you know
Speaker 3: post eu so, so I think that that is actually
Speaker 3: a really good point and definitely like to me, I'm
Speaker 3: seeing at D twenty three, like I almost feel like
Speaker 3: it's one hundred percent that the del Ray panel's going
Speaker 3: to announce an Icarus and score on like ya Zappra
Speaker 3: Twins kind of book.
Speaker 4: There's a reason why gravitated toward Boba Fette, you know,
Speaker 4: Like again, like if you think about the amount of
Speaker 4: time he actually has in the movie, the way people
Speaker 4: glombed on, you know, in that first initial appearance, which
Speaker 4: just they were like, the jet pack is cool, and
Speaker 4: we like the helmet and we could make this work.
Speaker 4: I do think there is something to be said for
Speaker 4: you know, even if we think about like padmes like handmaidens.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's not what they're called. I apologize, I forget
Speaker 4: the term, but.
Speaker 2: No, no, no no, but I know what you mean.
Speaker 4: Like like the ladies in Waiting, if you will, like those,
Speaker 4: they become their own characters. To some people, their favorite
Speaker 4: characters were a whole books written about these women. I
Speaker 4: want to be okay with it. I just think in
Speaker 4: a mini series format without a guarantee and maybe this
Speaker 4: is again because we come from an era of TV
Speaker 4: where those two things were really separate, and I'm not
Speaker 4: one hundred percent sure they are anymore.
Speaker 1: We see a lot of mencia.
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree, like a limited series or a mini
Speaker 3: series like meant something different with the way you would
Speaker 3: tell the story. I don't think this has that. It
Speaker 3: does not have the cliffhangers, it does not have the catchiness,
Speaker 3: it does not have the bingeability. Like I've gone back
Speaker 3: and rewatched all the episodes in a row every time
Speaker 3: they've come out, and I just have not found that
Speaker 3: to be a more engaging experience. Like I understand why
Speaker 3: they didn't just drop it as a binge, but I
Speaker 3: also don't think it's delivering on a mini series situation,
Speaker 3: like just call it like a new Star Wars series,
Speaker 3: especially if there's.
Speaker 2: Gonna be other seasons. I was gonna ask you, guys, like.
Speaker 3: What could what would they have to do for you
Speaker 3: guys in the final two episodes that would take this
Speaker 3: up to like a you have to watch this actually
Speaker 3: like it's a little uneven, But they ended with something
Speaker 3: that makes me feel like it's really gonna go somewhere
Speaker 3: in the next season.
Speaker 1: Well, we do need something additive ultimately, and I feel
Speaker 1: like even though we got some new characters, we haven't
Speaker 1: felt anything additive, and there's been no connection to other
Speaker 1: parts of the larger story that have surprised thus far.
Speaker 1: Like you know, again, this is crazy and is not
Speaker 1: gonna happen. But if Loss's ex wife is Dedra, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that's that crazy ship.
Speaker 2: But they have to do it. They don't have the story.
Speaker 1: Juice, juice, give us just hook this to the wider
Speaker 1: story in a way that's that is, that is under
Speaker 1: that is you know, genuinely surprising, or find something that
Speaker 1: is an unanswered question, an unscratched itch, and use this
Speaker 1: series to explore it. Use those final episodes explore it,
Speaker 1: and and let's see if they do that. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that we will get more of the you know,
Speaker 1: like how Mall became a gang leader story we should
Speaker 1: write and that'll be cool and I guess, depending on
Speaker 1: how far they go with it, that could be really satisfying.
Speaker 1: But again, I really want like the death of of
Speaker 1: Scorn to like mean something like I want the I
Speaker 1: want like the I want Mall to like ruminate on
Speaker 1: this found family that he's assembled and tries to assemble
Speaker 1: around him and and build off what was the best
Speaker 1: character moment of this series for mal in those tunnels,
Speaker 1: build off that I've got it. I've got it.
Speaker 4: Here's how I need this, and it's and it won't
Speaker 4: happen because it's not the tone of the series. But
Speaker 4: I don't care. This is what I want. Okay remains
Speaker 4: on his Jedi bullshit, and that is really a thing
Speaker 4: the show is pushing. They're like, hey, Jedi has some
Speaker 4: stupid ideas. Those ideas got people hurt. Who's the person
Speaker 4: who would die? Who would be most affecting to us
Speaker 4: at this point, it's Riley. He's the youngest, he's the
Speaker 4: most innocent, He's got the most people who care about
Speaker 4: his safety. You know, Devin, I'm sorry. Daku had just
Speaker 4: apologized to Riley for not being able to protect him.
Speaker 4: What if ultimately he fails in the most ultimate way possible,
Speaker 4: Riley dies. It's Riley's dad is devastating. He goes full
Speaker 4: cop mode. He's like, I'm guns blazing, I don't care.
Speaker 4: I'm a one man army against the Empire. He's gonna
Speaker 4: lose two and then Deku is like, oh no, I
Speaker 4: messed up, but what that's just the way the universe
Speaker 4: must have wanted it that way, And Devon's like, you
Speaker 4: know what, absolutely not, I'm off this train ride. I'm
Speaker 4: actually gonna partner with mal. I can't be doing this.
Speaker 4: We have a full turn from Devon gets to step
Speaker 4: into like now he's actually got what he's wanted this
Speaker 4: whole time, which is like a willing apprentice, and we
Speaker 4: get to see the beginning struggles and joys of that,
Speaker 4: like yes, I have, but I don't know what to
Speaker 4: do in this position and we're in danger and now
Speaker 4: my heart is attached to her, But how do I
Speaker 4: lead this crew who's also angry? Like it's a whole
Speaker 4: mixed bag of things, and I would end.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're brave enough to kill a gay.
Speaker 1: I do think.
Speaker 2: I do think that you are onto something.
Speaker 3: I think Daki is gonna do something, and we're both
Speaker 3: right because his name is like Obi Daki Daku.
Speaker 2: So sorry to the guy who wrote the name. It's
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 3: I'm prompt, I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, Star Wars naming conventions,
Speaker 3: but like it.
Speaker 2: Would be really interesting.
Speaker 3: I do think you're onto something where we see her
Speaker 3: master do something or fail in a way that is
Speaker 3: so objectively unforgivable for her that she changes to the
Speaker 3: dark side.
Speaker 2: Whatever it is.
Speaker 3: He can't save the train, he tells her, don't do that,
Speaker 3: and then something really awful happens, kind of that spite
Speaker 3: a reverse Spider Man moment, like yeah, who's gonna say,
Speaker 3: it's not our fight? And something terrible happens because she
Speaker 3: doesn't do it, and then that makes her think, well,
Speaker 3: maybe mores onto something. I think you're right, that's the
Speaker 3: big thing that we need to see, And yeah, I would.
Speaker 3: I would also kind of jumping off what Jason was saying,
Speaker 3: I would love to see like a bit more of
Speaker 3: a motive, like I want to know why he wants,
Speaker 3: Like yeah, he's revengeful, but it would be great if
Speaker 3: we got some deeper emotional beat of why these people
Speaker 3: and why this moment Like that would be really interesting
Speaker 3: as kind of a big emotional review or.
Speaker 4: What make a good revenge story work? Like I want
Speaker 4: you to suffer in this specific way on this specific date,
Speaker 4: so it hurts even more and you need to understand
Speaker 4: both the current relationship between these two you need to
Speaker 4: understand you you kind of need to understand like what
Speaker 4: the Emperor up against right now, like where he's at.
Speaker 4: Like the revenge has to come from two sides, so
Speaker 4: that when it finally reaches you understand the impact for
Speaker 4: everyone involved. And I yeah, either they gotta lean full
Speaker 4: gangster or full into the revenge or full into the
Speaker 4: master thing. Like it's a lot of lanes that aren't
Speaker 4: really adding up too much. I hope we get a death.
Speaker 4: I know it's maybe a little morbid, and I apologize.
Speaker 2: I just ye, he likes it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably father for So.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see where this goes. Hopefully I wonder
Speaker 1: if Dryden Voss will actually appear.
Speaker 2: It could happen. Well, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3: I this is the first time where after the end
Speaker 3: of these two I was like, well, I do actually
Speaker 3: need to know what happens.
Speaker 2: Whether it's gonna be like good or bad.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm a place where like you've got
Speaker 3: a time to land it and it's in the next
Speaker 3: two episodes, So I think that's an exciting place to be.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm wondering.
Speaker 3: If there's any other big name surprise cameos we could
Speaker 3: get because it's so much easier for them to do
Speaker 3: in animation, So timing wise, it is going.
Speaker 2: To be interesting to if they've saved any big ones.
Speaker 1: Well. On the next episode of Extra Vision, we're diving
Speaker 1: into Daredevil two o seven and we're checking it the
Speaker 1: final season of The of the Boys, Folks, that boysing
Speaker 1: Things that boising out. That's it for this episode. Next
Speaker 1: for listening. X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion
Speaker 1: and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wax.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator.