1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Giants Training Camp twenty two is presented by Ford, the 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: official SUV of the New York Giants. It's time to 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: get inside the Giants Huddle on Giants dot Com on 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: the Giants Let Him, Let's Go, part of the Giants 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Giant Subtle Podcast. My 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: name is John Schmilk. Thank you so much for being 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: with us today. Our guests were joined by Mike Sander, 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: who covers the NFL for the Athletic Don't Forget Two. 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: Giants Training Camp is presented by for the official SUV 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: of the New York Football Giants. Mike a pleasure median person. Man, 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: how are you. It's great, It's great to be here. 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. You've had a lot of 13 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: interesting pieces come out, and we'll get to a lot 14 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: of those. Let's start with the Giants. So first, as 15 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: you've kind of looked at the league and at the 16 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: Giants here throughout the offseason the preseason, what's your general 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: impression of the new regime and kind of where the 18 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: franchise is heading. Well, definitely you have a sync up 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: head coach and GM, these two guys from Buffalo together. 20 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: There's not any issues between the two. They're not on 21 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: a different timeline. Sometimes you see the at where the 22 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: GM has been there and then we're sort of caught 23 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: no man's land. The Giants know what that's like, and 24 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: you can have good people and it doesn't you know, 25 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: it doesn't just time up right. So I think that's 26 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: that's the start. There. You've got the head coach and 27 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: GM on the same page. Interestingly, I think obviously they 28 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: have to figure out what they have in Daniel Jones. 29 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: But the NFC is so different from the f C. 30 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: I was I was talking depending on who you like 31 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: or don't like, or look at some of these quarterbacks, 32 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Carson Wentz might be the sixth best quarterback in the NFC, 33 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: or you know, if you like Daniel Jones, Morten Carson Wentz, 34 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: maybe he's He's a totally different story and they have 35 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: seen So I think you've got this interesting situation for 36 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: the Giants where obviously there's a long term build here. 37 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: They didn't come in and just load up against the 38 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: cap and ho, we're gonna They didn't send that signal. 39 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: But there's a chance to be competitive right away too, 40 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: which I think is important for your culture. People always 41 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: talk about oh tank or get the pick. No, No, 42 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: I think you have to have a competitive culture, and 43 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: there's an opportunity this year just the state of the 44 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: NFC East to maybe be better than you might otherwise 45 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: be if you were in the f C West. So 46 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: I think that balancing of the short term in the 47 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: long term is is what the Giants are this year. Yeah, 48 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: and I think it's almost like an investigative season. Right 49 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 1: do you have Daniel on his last year, you have 50 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: Sake one on his last year, Blake Martinez was you 51 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: negotiated to his last year? So you're gonna find out 52 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: about these guys that you think, all right, maybe these 53 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: guys could be important part of this team long term 54 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: or we can make that important decisions next season. So 55 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: you're right to me, this is just the start, right, 56 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: this is this is the start of the bringing the 57 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: old building down and next season that's when the rubble 58 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: was cleared and that's when you can kind of start 59 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: building the building back up. But they didn't blow it 60 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: up right away, you know, they didn't blow everything out. 61 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: It is system. People come in and nothing that was 62 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: there before is good enough and this or that. So 63 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: I think they're taking a majored approach to it. You know, 64 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: you you certainly from the outside don't see any you know, 65 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: red flag of oh you shouldn't be doing that or 66 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, and and as the years go by, right, 67 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: the expectations then come up. This just feels like a 68 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: let's see what we have here, Like you said, yeah, 69 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: no question, and well it starts with the quarterback right, 70 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: and you recently had your comeback tears article, um, which 71 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: obviously I always gets a lot of fun feedback. People 72 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: people love losing their minds from anonymous quotes. But I 73 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: love the piece. It's always great. It's it's always a 74 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: must read every year. Mike. So what was the feedback 75 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: you got about Daniel Jones when you talk to people 76 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: are on the league that I think people have one 77 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: foot out on them, right. I mean they want to 78 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: see that they've they've been hopeful and and it hasn't 79 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: happened for whatever reason. They're mindful of the fact that 80 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: it hasn't been great around him a lot of the time, personnel, 81 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: the coaching changes, all of that. You're optimism with day ball, 82 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: but I think you know much as the GIANTSI signal 83 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: they didn't pick up the option right, I think the 84 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: voters weren't picking up the option on Daniel Jones. The 85 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: glass isn't half full anymore. The glasses probably half empty, 86 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's empty. And I think he'll have his 87 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: best shot because the offensive line is kind of quietly 88 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: not bad, you know, really, I mean day Ball may 89 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: have a better offensive line or as good at once 90 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: line as he had in Buffalo. He doesn't have that 91 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: Josh Allen guy who's one of six and Tier one important, 92 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of important. But I think he at least 93 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: have there's something there. The coverage not totally bare, so 94 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: can they you know, are they likely to get to 95 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: the end of the this year and go, wow, we 96 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: have a Tier one quarterback. Now that probably doesn't happen, 97 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: But then it doesn't have to be just absolutely awful either, 98 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: And maybe you have the ability to draft somebody or 99 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: bring somebody in and and who knows, Danil Jones could 100 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: be a bridge or maybe he's out um. But I 101 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: don't think people in the league, by the nature of 102 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: this what seven people put him in Tier three, which 103 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: is kind of a legitimate starter who needs needs help 104 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: from his defense and run game. You don't want to 105 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: throw it too much, thirty six and Tier four, which is, 106 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure I want to go the 107 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: whole season with him to the starter, and then seven 108 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: of the fifty were like, I'm out Tier five. I 109 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: don't think he's a starter. So you know, it's the glasses. 110 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: The sand is going through the hour glass here, and 111 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: people aren't overly excited, but that's just the state of 112 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: the Giants or feel similarly by their actions. How much 113 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: can he be benefited by not only the improvement of 114 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: the offensive line as you mentioned, maybe se Quan finally 115 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: stays healthy for the first time in three years, but 116 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 1: more importantly the additions of Brian Dable and the additions 117 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: of Mike Cafco right coming from to forward thinking offenses 118 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: that can bring a lot to the table. I do 119 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: think that it's a great sort of test for day Ball. 120 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: Not that we're the book's going to come back after 121 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: one year. It's not, but uh, that's somebody who has 122 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: had some success, and I think he interestingly likes to 123 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: throw the football. Uh. You know, I think we're gonna 124 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: expect Buffalo to go back to more of a little 125 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: bit more running. I think Buffalo the highest pass rate 126 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: on first down of anything. Yeah, that would be interesting 127 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: because you do have the back. I think if you're 128 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: a defense you're probably looking at stake Kuon Barkley, if 129 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: you if you're looking at anybody right to stop and 130 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: make him one dimensional. But if you throw on those 131 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: really downs, I do think you don't want to get 132 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: too far, uh you know, into that, But I do 133 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: think that can help a quarterback like Daniel Jones, who, 134 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: let's face it, on third down, when they know you're 135 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: going to pass it, it's a lot harder. So that 136 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: would be an interesting part of the calculus. And I 137 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: think they will uh certainly passed the ball more and 138 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: early downs than they have been about wing Morton Dale. 139 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: He brings a a system that the rest of the 140 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: NFL is kind of moving away from. Right, we had 141 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: the single high craze that goes back to Pete Carroll. 142 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: I guess that's almost ten years ago, right, It goes 143 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: by fast and now people everyone else is going to 144 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: that too. Safeties, deep zone, keep things in front of you. 145 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: Wink is not that guy. So how do you think 146 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: he might impact the Giant? Yeah, well that would be 147 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: interesting because a lot of what they did in Baltimore 148 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: too was based on what they had. They've had tremendous 149 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: talent there and an ability to to do that, so 150 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: and the fronts went out of the the way to pay 151 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: for that town with too trade forward sign m Yeah. Yeah, 152 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: So I think that he can be flexible. So we'll 153 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: we'll see what they do. I don't think it will 154 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: be exactly Baltimore. I think he's uh. I think he 155 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: prides himself on being able to do it a lot 156 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: of different ways, so I think it will look a 157 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: little bit different. Um it is the first year. There 158 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: is some decent talent. I mean, the defense has Leonard 159 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: Williams upfront and some some good players, so you know, 160 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: maybe the corner position is one they could stand to 161 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: address obviously, But I think we'll be interesting about Wink 162 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: is the perception of you know, coming after you and Blitzen, 163 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: and you know they've had Marcus Peters and you know, 164 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: they've had a couple of really good corners, thank you, 165 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: very physical, good good corner. Jimmy Smith is there for 166 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: a long time too, but they've also played games where 167 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: they just sat back too, So that would be interesting 168 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: to me to see how much he plays the way 169 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: he's always played, or maybe you know what, we don't 170 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: have that personnel exactly the same. Maybe it's going to 171 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: take a year. What's your impression, you know, because the 172 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: results the last few years I not being good. But 173 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: I do feel like there's been some important players added 174 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: in important positions. Right Andrew Thomas, left tackle, Evan Neil 175 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: drafted a right tack with this offseason, Cavan Tibota, big 176 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: time pass Russia right. We'll see what can ARISONI can do. 177 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: What do you think about some of the young pieces 178 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: that obviously have not reached what the Giants hope is 179 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: their peak yet? Do you think they have the making 180 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: of a pretty good foundation. I think they do to 181 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: the extent that I think Andrew Thomas is gonna be 182 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: really good here what he is pretty good? I think 183 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: he's really good. So to add the best tackle in 184 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: the draft really um from their standpoint, uh, this year 185 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: I think is excellent. I mean that's just such a 186 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: great foundation. If you look at a team like Cleveland. 187 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: You know, Cleveland had Baker Mayfield. I think they liked 188 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: him decently, but then they had a chance to pounce 189 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: and it was controversial to get to shawna Watson. But 190 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: they've got the offensive line in place. I mean, they're 191 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: gonna be They're gonna be a good team. They're going 192 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: to be in the mix because of that. So I 193 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: I like that. I like that for the Giants just 194 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: kind of traditionally, right Giant football, Let's have a good 195 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: offensive line, let's be able to to balance it up 196 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: when we need do with a coach who is forward thinking, 197 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: and we'll throw the ball. So I do like it 198 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: to that extent. And I think there's just though it 199 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: is still an e val year, um, so you can 200 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: see some of those pieces, but there's the other key 201 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: pieces we don't know if they're gonna be here. Daniel 202 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: Jones Kwan Right, long term, there was so much this 203 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: bush it about Kevon Thibodeaux coming back. How much did 204 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: you talk to people about him and during the draft 205 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: process and what seems to be the overall impression of 206 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: him coming into the NFL. Yeah, I think it was positive, 207 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: But I didn't feel like this year that everyone was 208 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: unanimous slam dunk gonna be amazing on on the guys 209 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: at the top of the draft. There was no Miles 210 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: Garrett this year. Right right there, there was no miles 211 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: to Garrett. But I do know people in that process 212 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: who really liked his past rush ability and think, like 213 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: I look at the Giants draft. I think they took two. 214 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: I think they're not going to have a bust in 215 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: one of the two. I think they're both gonna be 216 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: good players. And it was frankly, it was a three 217 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: wood down the middle. It wasn't John Daily huge swing 218 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: because that wasn't available to them. There were no picks 219 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: traded in the top ten. They didn't stockpile the number 220 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: one for next year. They just did probably the right thing, 221 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: the smart thing, the solid thing, and for once the 222 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: guys dropped to him. No offensive lineman got picked a 223 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: of them. May be easy on them, yes, no offensively 224 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: ahead of him. But it also wasn't here where people 225 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: were clamoring to get up in their either. So I 226 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: think they they played it about as smart as they 227 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: could have. I mean, I don't know what else I 228 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: would have done if I were them. Yeah, and I 229 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: think Joe Shane would have been opened to moving down 230 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: if it also was there completely no quarterbacks, right, There 231 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: were no quarterbacks and no one was giving up those picks. 232 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: Like I said, none of the top ten traded on 233 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: draft day, and I don't think their phone was blowing 234 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: up at five. So um, it is what it is. 235 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: But you make the best of that situation. I think 236 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: they got two players that made sense for them. No, 237 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: I I totally agree. Alright, fans, this is remind their 238 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: Giant season tickets for two are on sale now. In 239 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: addition to ticket savings, membership benefits include access to exclusive events, experiences, 240 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: pre sales, and more. You can lock in your seat 241 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: starting at just one hundred bucks called eight eight eight 242 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: n Y or visit Giants dot COM's last tickets for 243 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: more information. Alright, Mike, let's talk about your most recent one. 244 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: Are your most recent pieces? Your quarterback tears? Guys, go 245 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: to the Athletic dot Com. They always have great sales, 246 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: like a dollar a month of the first six want 247 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: go go subscribe. It's really a fantastic website for any 248 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: team you root for the Giants that the leadue coverage. 249 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: It's all great. What was the most surprising thing or 250 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: a couple of the most surprising things you heard from 251 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: some of the evaluators about the quarterbacks that maybe disabused 252 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: you of some prior thought before you started your so 253 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, when you talk to fifty people by the end, 254 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: you're not really that surprised because you know you have 255 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: a pulseon and I talked to people throughout the years, 256 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: so I wouldn't say anything overly shocking. Although though there 257 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: was one Tier two vote for Patrick Mahomes, I don't 258 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: really know how you do that, really one tier two vote, 259 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: you know. And they had a little bit ups and downs, 260 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: and look, they may have some ups and downs going 261 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: starting this year because their receiving corps is different. There's 262 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: a lot of newness in that wide receiver room. And 263 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: so look, Patrick Mahomes isn't going anywhere. He's gonna be 264 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: He's still gonna be great. But it wouldn't surprise me 265 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: if out of the gates it was a little bit 266 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: like it was to start last season, as they figured 267 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: them there there themselves out. I think Russell Wilson is 268 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: really interesting falling into Tier two because they're in a 269 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: very tough division. They gave up a lot to get him. 270 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: Expectations through the room. It's a pretty good roster. Though 271 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: it's a pretty good roster, but vic than Joel Walks 272 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: out that door. They had an injury already in Camp 273 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: pet Tempe, and oh, by the way, the other teams 274 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: that division are pretty good, even the the Raiders beat 275 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: beat the Chargers last year. They got Josh McDaniels working 276 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: with Derek Carr with with Adams renfro Um. Obviously we 277 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: know Justin Herberts in that division, and oh, by the way, 278 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: Andy read Kansas City so easily the best division. I 279 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: think there's such I think some team is going to 280 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: finish fourth in that division that thinks they're a top 281 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: two team in the division. And if it's Denver, I 282 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: think it's interesting because the new owner of the expectations 283 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: all of that, Russell Wilson, was not happy in Seattle. 284 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: Do you think if they if they have disappointing here, 285 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: Russell Wilson is going to be like, Hey, that's on me, 286 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: I need to do better. That wasn't really what was 287 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: being said out of Seattle. So with those expectations, um, 288 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: I think they're a very interesting team to watch because 289 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: they could be a good team that finishes fourth in 290 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: their division. And Russell Wilson hasn't played as well the 291 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: last year and a half, so I think he's I 292 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: think he's very interesting and this is he heading down? 293 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: Is he going to rebound back up into Tier one, 294 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: which he easily could do. I think that that was 295 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: one of the big storylines this year. We're drawned by 296 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: Mike Sando from The Athletic Also you can hear him 297 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: on The Athletic Football Show their podcast as well. All right, 298 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: so let's stick with the quarterback story here and talk 299 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: about the NFC East because you know, you talk about 300 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: the NFC West. I think you put any of those 301 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: four teams in probably any NFC division except for the West, 302 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: they might be favorites to win the division. Right, So 303 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: this NFC East, it's traditionally wide open. I think it's 304 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and five was the last time the same 305 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: team won the division two straight years and didn't make 306 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: It's a long time, so it's always wide open. You 307 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: have Dak Prescott and Dallas, and then you have Jalen 308 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: Hurts in Philadelphia and of course Washington now doing the 309 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: Carson Wentz experiment, the third team trying that. So how 310 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: do you evaluate those quarterbacks in the division, What was 311 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: the take from the outs on them? And how do 312 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: you see this NFC East thing playing out? Okay, so 313 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: I thought Dak Prescott was ready to kind of ascend 314 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: after four or five games last season and figured he 315 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: would get healthier as the season went on coming off 316 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 1: that bed entry. But it didn't happen. You sent them back, 317 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: and I think their team is atrophied a little bit, 318 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: just a little bit. I don't I don't feel like 319 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: they've loaded up this year. They lost the more like 320 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: Cooper r. Collins, Connor Williams, a lot of guys. So 321 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: if they were already a team that you thought was 322 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: gonna win nine or ten games, I mean, I think 323 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: there they could be right in that borderline where they're 324 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: reassessing Mike McCarthy at the end of the year, right, Well, 325 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: Sean Payton is out there, Mike, Yeah, Sean Payton's out there. 326 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: So I think they are a vaulter, volatile team that 327 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: it could if it goes south for them or they 328 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: hit some bumps, and I'm just not sure they're going 329 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: to have the ability to hold that all together with 330 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: so many cooks in the kitchen. Right, they hired Dan Quinn, uh, 331 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: They've got Mike McCarthy, They've got Killing Moore. Jerry Jones 332 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: talked to the media all the time during the season. 333 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: It's just like dak is to me is the most 334 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: stable thing they have going. But it's really hard in 335 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: our goverzation like that. You could be good, it's just 336 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: hard to be consistently great. So I think that opens 337 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: the door for like a Philadelphia even though we have lost, 338 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: we have longer term questions about how far they can 339 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: go with you and hurts in that style of an 340 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: offense when you're really running the ball heavily. They have 341 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: a lot of fundamentals in place to be a good team. 342 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: I think, great roster. Yeah, they're ready to plug in. 343 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: I think they're going to be sort of a stable 344 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: team now. They may not in the playoffs. It may 345 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: be a repeat right of what happened to them against 346 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay. But I think they're I think their floor 347 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: is high, and I think that they will be a 348 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: team that might be there in the end of the division. 349 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: I don't really trust Carson Wentz over the course of 350 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: the season that organization. I think he's a risk to 351 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: get healthy to or to get injured to do silly things. Um, 352 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me if they were bunched. If all 353 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: those teams were nine and eight, somewhere and there and 354 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: one of them one ten. But I don't love the 355 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: long term outlook for Wentz. I think we've just seen 356 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: enough of almost it's almost kind of a makeup issue, right, 357 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: It's just kind of I'm just not sure about that 358 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: with him. So, UM, interesting division with those three teams. 359 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ask gonna make some kind of dope 360 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: super Bowl prediction and all of this because it's crazy, 361 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: But what's maybe one team in each conference that either 362 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: you think is going to be better than expected and 363 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: maybe not be as good as expected based on what 364 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: you've heard and seen around the league. Yeah, so I 365 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: would say the Raiders intrigued me a little bit. I 366 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: think that they're not perfect, but they've added some pass 367 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: rush to their team on defense, and they have a 368 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: ton of weapons, and I think Josh McDaniels is a 369 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: good blay color. So that's a team that's easy to 370 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: forget in the division because of all the hyper and 371 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: Russell Wilson. Um obviously Mahomes is in the division. I 372 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: think I think Minnesota is potentially a little bit underrated. Um. 373 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: I think you know, they had Mike Zimmer there and 374 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: I think he h his time and Rentant's course, I 375 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: think he's hard on people. I think he was obviously 376 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: hard on Kirk Cousins based on that story, on this 377 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: what happened. So I think there's a chance to come 378 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: in there and every and just take everyone just take 379 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: a sigh of relief. Like it wouldn't surprise me. I'm 380 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: saying they're gonna go far, but like wouldn't surprise me 381 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: if they were playoff team this year in the first 382 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: first year of his runs. So those are a couple 383 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: of teams I think that stand out to me. I'm 384 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: just looking through with the rest of them. Here if 385 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: there's anyone who might surprise you know, you know who, 386 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: here's a team. I'm not saying playoffs. But remember what 387 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: I said about the NFC. Carolina has been an absolute 388 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: mess with the head coach, with the quarterback situation. They 389 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: have some pieces on defense, they have some weaponry. Baker 390 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: Mayfield is not as it's not as bad as when healthy. 391 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: He's not as bad as sort of his offseason narrative 392 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: has been. And really, to be fair to Carston Wentz 393 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: probably a little bit too. I think Kirston Wentz really 394 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: got kicked in the gut by Indie and unfairly on 395 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: his way out, like he was portrayed as an absolute 396 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: horrific addition to their team. And if you look at 397 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: the stats and where the record was, he wasn't as 398 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: bad as people think. So I'm kind of I'm kind 399 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: of backtracking on my Washington thing because I I don't 400 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: buy him long term, but I think I think Baker 401 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: Mayfield is at least an average quarterback. So and they 402 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: have the defense, like you said, looking Giants fans are going, yeah, 403 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: Ben mc who was there, and he's trying to get 404 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: back into the courting. So there's a there's a lot 405 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: of things in there, Like Giants had them week two, 406 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: by the way, so ens gonna see them. Carolina really 407 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: is the Titanic that could go under. I mean, I'm 408 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: not saying to go running bet on him, but but 409 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: they're like if you're asking for surprise teams, like a 410 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: team that we all in our mind think kind of 411 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: sucks or is going to blow up, or Matt Rule 412 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: could be fouled that fired out for week six, all 413 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: those things. Believe him if you want to believe him, 414 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: because part of me believes him too. But they upgraded 415 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: kind of quietly. I think at quarterback there and they 416 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: were decent on defense. So are they a team that 417 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: is around five hundred surprisingly maybe and if Quanta can 418 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: be a good left tackle or early to help some 419 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: of their offensive line issues, so that's amazing. No exact 420 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: except for Tampa, no question. Alright, Giant fans, don't miss 421 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: that on your chance to experience a preerent hospitality experiences 422 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: watching Giant games, world class concerts two as a Giant 423 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: Sweet partner, A litt bit of full season locations are 424 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: available or place of the positive individual games called e 425 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: n Y is a Giants dot com slash suites for 426 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: more information. Finally, Mike, we had the Hall of Fame 427 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: class and announced um this summer. And you've done a 428 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: great study on wide receivers and I think that position 429 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: along with some of the quarterbacks too. You can't compare 430 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: numbers now er to error. It's impossible. You can't do 431 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: it anymore. No yard is not a yard, and the 432 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: completion is not a completion, right. A completion to Terry 433 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: Bradsher was worth a lot more than the one yard. 434 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: You know, quick pass to a wide receiver today much different. 435 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: I look at Joe name, its number is just to 436 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: give you an example. They look awful by today's standards differcation. 437 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: You couldn't even run over the middle of the field 438 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: without getting the ear hold. You know. Now it's wide 439 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: open for everybody, no question. I mean if you put 440 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: a guy like TrackMan in today's game, and can you 441 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: imagine the numbers he would put off that You can't 442 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: name the five most feared hitters in the game today 443 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: because there aren't five. And you used to always be 444 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: able to do that because every team had a hitter. 445 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: You know. Now you don't don't do that, So it 446 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: is different. It's hard to compare across the areas. But 447 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: I think I found a way to do it. So 448 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: tell me about it. Okay. So I am a Hall 449 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: of Fame voter, and I'm always I think we need 450 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: better criteria. So so many times the Hall of Fame 451 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: class comes out a guy makes a guy doesn't doesn't 452 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: make it, and we don't really have a clear explanation why. 453 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: It just almost seems like, hum, maybe it just wasn't 454 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: his year. So I'm always looking for a way to 455 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: major production and for the wide receivers. What I did 456 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: was I took the eight best seasons of every receiver 457 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: in the history of the league's career, and I defined 458 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: that by how close were you to leading the league 459 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 1: in receiving yard is in a given year. So if 460 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: you lead the league, you get a value of a 461 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: one point oh the top percentiel. If you were extremely 462 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: close leading it, you might be a nine percentel all 463 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: the way down. And I did that for the eight 464 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: best seasons of everybody, and I thought it made sense. 465 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: And then when it came out, I was so happy 466 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: because Jerry Rice and Don Hudson were at the top point. 467 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: I'm not saying Don Hudson would step into today's NFL 468 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: and be the same that he was, but he dominated. 469 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: He read the league seven times. Rice and Hudson have 470 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: to be at the top of your list of all time. 471 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: Not the criteria is not called. The criteria is not correct. 472 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: So when that came up, I was like, I think 473 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: we're onto it. Randy Moss was third, and in the 474 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: in the top ten, Steve Large and Marvin Harrison. James 475 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: Lofton did very well. He bounced a lot of teams, 476 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: but really elite production. And then there were some guys 477 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: that in the top twenty that I kind of was 478 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: like Jimmy Smith, Henry Ellard, some guys that you Brandon 479 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: Marshall bounced around a little bit, but with a dominant 480 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: for she looked at his career a bunch of yard years, 481 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: and I think to be clear, this isn't the only 482 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,479 Speaker 1: criteria for Hall of Fame. You have to look at 483 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: what a guy did in the playoffs, or you have 484 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: to look did they have to really game plan for him? 485 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: But to just evaluate the production, this was a pretty 486 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: cool list, and I've gotten great feedback on it. So 487 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: to plug the athletic here if you if you, if 488 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: you look for that on there. I was so thrilled 489 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: we were able to reproduce this glossy thing that I'm 490 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: holding in front of you that is color coded and 491 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: when you look at it, it makes sense to you 492 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: and you can kind of see where the drop off is. Oh, 493 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: this guy really only had five Elite seasons or not 494 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: only but this guy only had three. Why is Paul 495 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: Warfield where he's at? Right? Well? Rod Smith, Chris Carter, 496 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: Gary Clark. You mentioned Gary Clark. He was top twenty five, right, 497 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: Gary Clark one, two three, And I bet you there 498 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: are young listeners Honestly, Mike, that probably never heard of 499 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: Gary Clark. But if you go to those Washington teams, 500 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: that one with you know, the Mark rippon Super Bowl 501 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: he was with Ricky Santas an art monk. He was 502 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: a monster. You know those teams. The team is one 503 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: of the greatest teams of all time. People don't even 504 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: talk about it, but but I love doing this type 505 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: of thing because when it when it kind of makes 506 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: sense and you can then contextualize. And I've had fun 507 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: going to these camps and handing that to which is 508 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: and gms and letters and they kind of stare at it. 509 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: They and we have conversations. So that was me. You 510 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: feel good whenever somebody in this sport is like, hey, 511 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: you know that's that's pretty good. Yeah. Every once in 512 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: a while, you you know, you meet with these guys 513 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 1: and they go, let me see that, you know, and 514 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of on the time. I spent 515 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking it through. You know, I 516 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I think I think this is pretty good. 517 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: So it's fun. Two more Whole Fame questions real quick, 518 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: What the what do you think of this year's class? Yeah, 519 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: I feel like this year's class. They're all great classes, 520 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: but this year's class didn't have the obvious three that, oh, 521 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: this guy's a surefire Hall of Famer. I think a 522 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: lot of people were. I didn't know that Bryant Young 523 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: was gonna make it or whatever. Nothing, that's Brian Young 524 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: because when I covered the Seahawks, I was a beat 525 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: writer when our friend Jeff Fiagles was on the team. 526 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: All the offensive linemen back then, Steve Hutchinson, Walter Jones 527 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: both in the Hall of Fame. Robbie Tobeck was a 528 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: Pro Bowl center. They used to always tell me, and 529 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: you guys, don't you guys are sleeping on Brian Young 530 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: because everyone talked about Warren Sat back then. Brian with 531 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: a different type of a player. So I thought it 532 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: was pretty cool that, hey, the offensive lineman's defensive lineman 533 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: made it in. But I think it wasn't a class 534 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: where there was a Peyton Manning or just somebody, you know, 535 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: the star studdedness of it was a little bit different. 536 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: I believe there there was no first time elective this year, right, 537 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: everyone was on there at least their second or war year. 538 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: My head, yeah, top of my head. We had Tony 539 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: Boselli finally broke through. So, um, you know, I think 540 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: we've done a good job in general. I think, you know, 541 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: maybe we got to a point where the some of 542 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: the backlogs occurred up. Although I think a wide receiver. 543 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: Three of the guys in the top eleven on my 544 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: list for production, Tory Holt, Reggie Wayne, and Andre Johnson, 545 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: none of them made it to the final five. And 546 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: I think what happened was they cancel each other out 547 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: a little like if you ever try to do one 548 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: of these ballots, Oh, they're hard. So you start with 549 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: the fifteen people, and then we have to pick ten, 550 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: and then we have to pick five. Well, you always 551 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: leave off somebody, and then if you get to the 552 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: receiver position, you you might be like, I'm not going 553 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: to put in three receivers at once. So you pick 554 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: Tory Holt, I say I'm gonna do Reggie Wayne, and 555 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: Peter King says he's gonna do Andre Johnson. And then 556 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: none of them make it, but we all think they 557 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: all should make it. So you wait a couple of 558 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: years when people get mad, but they'll get in. Those 559 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: guys are all getting in. How tough is it to 560 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: balance the guys like de Troll Davis is that they're 561 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: dominant for a few years, but they don't have the longevity. 562 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: Has that been a challenge for you guys, Well, it is. 563 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: I think those guys get in when we have when 564 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: we've gotten through the backlock. I think sometimes there is 565 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,959 Speaker 1: a fifth slot that's easier to get into the letters, 566 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: and there is gonna be another backlock coming up, by 567 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: the way, with all these recent retirement Yeah, yeah, and 568 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: I welcome it. I like the days when before I 569 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: was on the committee a year or two, I've done 570 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: it ten or twelve years. I remember, like when Chris 571 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: Carter missed and I you know, I was just sitting 572 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: there going, what is this panel thinking? Chris Carter like 573 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: never dropped a pass for ten years. But then when 574 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: you get in the room, you realize how it happens. 575 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: And and in the end, when a guy misses one year, 576 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: it's not that the Hall of Fame committee said he's 577 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: not a Hall of Famer. It's just there are three 578 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: thousand unique combinations of five that can make it from 579 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: the fifteen mathematically, So you know it's going to be 580 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: a combination that maybe none of the voters, one of 581 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: those five exactly in the beginning, and that's what we got. 582 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to put you on the spot final question, 583 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: but I fear the day and I think about two 584 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: years when Eli Manning becomes ELI for the Hall of Fame, 585 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: because I'm gonna have giant fans calling up our college 586 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: every day going nuts. So give them a feel for 587 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: what you think that conversation is going to be. Like 588 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: someone who has great total numbers, great playoff performance, two 589 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: super Bowl victories, but things like efficiency in the regular season, 590 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: things like that maybe don't match up to some of 591 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: the other guys in his era. So here's what I think. 592 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: I think fifteen years ago, Eli Manning skates into the 593 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, and I still think now he'll get 594 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame. I do think he will 595 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: get in most likely, um, but I think there's a 596 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: greater awareness now of the production and the elite production 597 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: statistically to whereas I think before, if you were a 598 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: quarterback on a couple super Bowl now, Jim plunk into 599 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: game and didn't get him, but he didn't have any 600 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: life type career where he played fifteen years and didn't 601 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: miss a game. And also the Manning name I think 602 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: is is a factor in all of us. It's the 603 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. Get that it's the Hall of Fame. 604 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: There a lot of those guys in the NFL network 605 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: had made the whole of fame to last. Yeah, but 606 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: I do think that there will be a nuance. There 607 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: is a nuanced conversation to have because there isn't an 608 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: exact criteria. And I think you could make a case. 609 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: You could make this case throughout Manning's career, was he 610 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: ever a top three quarterback in the league? And if 611 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: you're putting in a Hall of Famer, you could make 612 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: a case that Philip Rivers was. But Philip Rivers never 613 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 1: had the Super Bowl success. Well, Philip Rivers always had 614 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: bad defenses and terrible special teams, and he wasn't the Giants. 615 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: They were firing mighty Shortenmemad fourteen and two. There's a 616 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: reason I didn't want to go there. He was correct. 617 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: If Eli Manning went there and Philip Rivers came here, 618 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: I think the Giants. I think that man I think 619 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: Philip Rivers might have a Super Bowl. Yeah. I think 620 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: the question is how much credit do you give? You 621 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: live for the big moments? Right then? I think you 622 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: have to give him a lot of credit. I think. 623 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: I think if he doesn't have that, he's not He's 624 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: not in the conversation. So how do we synthathesize that 625 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: it's hard. But he did do it twice and he 626 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: was amazing Tom Brady, So that's why I think. I 627 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: think because of that, there's like a fame component to this. 628 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: And and you know, there isn't a there isn't a yes, 629 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: no bar that you have to do these four things. 630 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's everyone's career can be a little bit different. 631 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: The easy ones are Peyton Manning, right or Tom Brady 632 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: they have it all um, but or you know, Brett 633 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: Farve even um played a long time and had you know, 634 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: three time m v P. There was a time when 635 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: there was a time when Brett Farve was the best 636 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: quarterback in the league for three to five years. I 637 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: don't think there was free live. Yeah, I think for 638 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: the regular season. I think that's fair. Yeah. But but 639 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: just if I would have been doing her back tears 640 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: from two thousand and four to two ten, I think 641 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: he would have had some Tier one year. I totally 642 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: agree with you question. He definitely would to Tier one years. 643 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: But I don't know that he would have been unanimous 644 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: like like Rogers and Mahomes. I think he would have 645 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: been on that borderline a couple of times. And you know, 646 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: we have to put all together with the championship moments, 647 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: with the length of career, uh and all of that. 648 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: And that's why I think probably he I think he 649 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: will get in. I think there will be some discussion. Mike. 650 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: This is a real pleasure man, pleasure me and you. 651 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, Mike Sandal'll plug whatever you want 652 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: to plug before we say goodbye. Well, you can check 653 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: me out on Twitter at Sando NFL, and certainly go 654 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: to the Athletic look at Mike Sando. If you subscribe, 655 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: I get a little bit of credit for that and 656 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: be happy for you, happy for me, Mike Sandal from 657 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: the Athletic. We thank you for joining us in the 658 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: GIOHNTS Little Podcast. I am John Schmall. Thank you for 659 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: being with us. We'll see you next time.