1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: I'm with Lucas and this is black Tech, Green Money. 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Doctor Lisa Williams is founder of World of Epi and 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: The Fresh Dolls, where she helps children embrace their beauty, uniqueness, 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: and positive play through doll representation. Her company is the 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: largest black owned doll company in the United States. She 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: was the first female professor at any institution to receive 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: a multi million dollar endowed chair, the first African American 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: professor to earn tenure at Penn State University, and the 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: first African American to receive a doctorate in logistics from 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: the Ohio State University. I asked doctor Williams about toys 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: and since kids explore so much of the imagination around 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: toys and dolls, how much does representation mean? Why is 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: it important to have dolls that look like us? 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, because that allows you to dream. 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: And I think that how you play as a child 16 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: has a direct impact on what you believe you can 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 3: achieve and will achieve as an adult. And it is 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 3: about representation because when you see a doll that looks 19 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 3: like you, could you really to it? And then as 20 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: you're playing with it, of course, you can envision yourself 21 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: not just playing at it, but playing with it and 22 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: actually becoming what you're envisioning what you're playing with as 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 3: a child. 24 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 4: And so I was thinking about this. 25 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: I thought it was so interesting if you think about 26 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: that study that was done in the nineteen forties, the 27 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: doctor Kenneth and Mamie Clark studying that show that when 28 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: you gave little black girls, I think they gave it 29 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: to little black boys also, but I know they gave 30 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: it to little black girls. The choice between playing with 31 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: a white doll and a black doll, they still prefer 32 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: to play with the white doll. And I was thinking 33 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: about this in the context of you may have seen 34 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: black kids who are adopted by white parents, and so 35 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: often we've heard conversations about they don't necessarily know how 36 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: to do black kids hair, or they may not know 37 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: how we need lotion in. 38 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 4: A different way as had some other folks. And I 39 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 4: don't need to be funny, but it is funny in 40 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 4: that way. 41 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: But I think about could there have been more there, 42 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: and also that the toys that they gave those black 43 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: kids maybe didn't show the best beauty of black children. 44 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that as we were, you know, 45 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: preparing for this conversation. You know, what do you think there? 46 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 3: Well, you know what, I applaud Kenneth and made me 47 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 3: clock on what they did, and I definitely stand on 48 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 3: their shoulders. I think in their case, they did use 49 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: two identical dolls, one which is white and one was black, 50 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: and unfortunately, I believe that it was its ingrading systemic 51 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: degradation of beauty of black and brown people. That is 52 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 3: systemic and it goes generation to generation. So when they 53 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: saw the doll, they just spoke what they've been taught, 54 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: either subliminally or consciously, that darker is not pretty, darkest, ugly, dumb, stupid, 55 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: and bad. And that's what the kids reiterating when they 56 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 3: were asked about their thoughts about seeing a black doll. 57 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, super unfortunate there. And you you talked about representation, 58 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: how important that is, and we talked about that for 59 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: so long. You know, it's just the forties and having 60 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: representation and toys and what do you think about aspiration? Also, 61 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: because I think about not only in seeing my hue 62 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: represented in the color of a doll, but also particularly 63 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: a vision of the future, what do I look like 64 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: as an adult male? 65 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 4: Go ahead and see? 66 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 3: And that is exactly the reason why I did these dolls. 67 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: Let me just pause for a moment. You asked me 68 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 3: about the Kenneth and made me Clarkstone the original one. 69 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: Right, so we given Jim Crow laws. 70 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: It's like it wasn't really a big stretch that our 71 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: beautiful black and brown children would say that the black 72 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 3: and brown doll was ugly. 73 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: But what did shock me is when they. 74 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 3: Did it again in two thousands and we still had 75 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: the same problem. Meaning beautiful chocolate little girls in this 76 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: particular example looked at the doll and said, I don't 77 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 3: want to play with the black doll. 78 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: The skin is nasty. That broke my. 79 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: Heart and it still does today because at that time, 80 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: of course, we had a black president, beautiful first lady 81 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: in the White House, and even personally, I was achieving 82 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: and breaking records in academia. I was the highest ranking 83 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: professor in the world. I had two multimillion dollars in 84 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: dollars to research. 85 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 4: I would talk that talk. 86 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 3: The reason why I say that is in a way, 87 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: because I was breaking so many barriers. 88 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: I was living in a cocoon. 89 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: I'm about to cry again because I did not realize 90 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: that our children were still suffering from this. I didn't 91 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 3: realize that they are still thinking that they're less than. 92 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 3: So even sitting at the top of my perch, right 93 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: the highest ranking professor in the world be a black, yellow, 94 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 3: green of purple. When I saw that, it broke something 95 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: in me because there was an illusion that I had. 96 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: We had the first black president. I'm achieving so many 97 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 3: personal goals and professional goals. I'm just assuming we had 98 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: moved so far. But out of the mouths of babes, 99 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 3: I realized there's so many areas that we weren't. And 100 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: so that's the reason why I left all of my 101 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 3: accolades and started creating golf. 102 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: And I knew nothing. 103 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 3: Well, well, listen to me, nothing, I mean. 104 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: Lessen nothing. But what I had was a passion. 105 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 3: I didn't have any money, I had no mentorship, no experience, 106 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: no background, nothing, But I had a passion to make 107 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 3: sure that representation is prevalent in the doll industry. 108 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so exciting what you've achieved, you know, 109 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: having received even the highest honor in the doll industry, 110 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: the toy industry, the Doll of the Year. So kudos 111 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: to you for that. And so talk about the importance 112 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: of pushing the industry to embrace. 113 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 4: Efforts like this, because I think about. 114 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: While having that public acclaim, the industry doesn't always challenge, 115 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, champion innovation in that way. So because it's disruptive, 116 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: it makes them have to do things differently. 117 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely, because before we came, it was acceptable. It was 118 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: an industry standard that would just take a beautiful Caucasian 119 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 3: sculpt and you put brown paint on it, and it's 120 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 3: a black doll. You put tan pain on it, and 121 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 3: it's a Latin, a dolt. And we came around and 122 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: we said, no, no, no, Each individual ethnicity should have 123 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 3: their own unique facial sculpt reason why is that because 124 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: that's the. 125 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: Only way it can be authentic. 126 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 3: And but creating unique sculpes is the most expensive part 127 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 3: of a doll. 128 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: So I understand from a. 129 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 3: Business perspective, while many companies chose not to do it, 130 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: I get it. 131 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: Our mission was different. 132 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: I didn't come into the doll industry saying I want 133 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: to be a billionaire, right, That was never my goal. 134 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: Every time. 135 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: My goal was and still is, how can I show 136 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: beautiful black and brown children their beauty and their brilliance 137 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: and whatever it takes to do that. That's what we're 138 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: willing to do. And so since the responses have been 139 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: so positive, now others in the industry are looking at 140 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 3: it like, oh, wait a minute. You know, there's a 141 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: market that's been underserved. They're dollars we haven't reaped yet. 142 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: So now you do see a lot of toy industry 143 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: moving into d united space. And I'm okay with that 144 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: because as long as our children have beautiful representation, that's 145 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 3: what makes my heart sing. So I'm really happy to 146 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: see the shift in the toy industry. 147 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: You so interesting to me is I have daughters and 148 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: what it seems like from a parent perspective, it seems 149 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: like the variation in the shape of the dolls has 150 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: been embraced faster than. 151 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 4: The hue of the dolls. So you have dolls with. 152 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: You know to historically very you know shape lists, you 153 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: know to you have a lot of a better word, 154 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: shapeless dolls. You think about the history. I won't name 155 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: any brands, but then you have very exaggerated body types 156 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: in so many of these, and it feels like those 157 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: exaggerated form the shapes of dolls have been embraced faster 158 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: than the hues. Can you Is that just me? As 159 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: a parent, or is that something that's relevant across the industry. 160 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: It's relevant across the industry. It's it's very true. Yeah, 161 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,119 Speaker 3: we embrace it. Generally speaking, the population embraces unique body 162 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: shapes and sizes, right, which is wonderful because it's all 163 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 3: body positivity. So I love that. But you are very 164 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 3: right when you say, but we're a little slower to. 165 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: Accepting the skin tone. And and it's it's still heartbreaking. 166 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: Because obviously we focus on multicultural dolls. We have dolls 167 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: for every skin tone and every ethnicity. But I will 168 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: look at our sales data and sometimes I'll see that 169 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: our dolls that skew a little lighter sell better than 170 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: those skewing towards the darker skin tone. And that again, 171 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: that's a that's a that's it breaks my heart and 172 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,679 Speaker 3: it shows me there's so much work yet. 173 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: Still for us to do. 174 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: And with that, you did this this Black Panther release, 175 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: which you know, I think is fantastic. 176 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 4: Can you talk about why. 177 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: That was important for the business side of what you 178 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: have going on, and you can talk about anything else 179 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: in the Black Panthers echosystem that is important to you also. 180 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: Well, I still was saying Black Panther changed my life 181 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 3: like I did so many of us right, talk about representation, 182 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: you saw it right, and from the Marvel universe, we 183 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 3: were included. We were primary. I love seeing those powerful 184 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: female warriors. It was just incredible, and of course Chadwick's 185 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: performance was just just awesome. 186 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 2: So I saw that movie. I was changed and transfixed 187 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 2: by it. 188 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 3: So imagine how excited I was when what three or 189 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: four years later, Marvel really reaches out and says, hey, would. 190 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: You guys interested into doing the Black Panther dolls? It's like, wait, what. 191 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 5: As they said? 192 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 4: You know you yes, that is yes. 193 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: And it was truly a labor of love. And when 194 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 3: I say labor, it was a labor because we were 195 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: so fixated on making sure the dolls were authentic and 196 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 3: representative of the actors and the actresses in the film, and. 197 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: So we wanted to We did. 198 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 3: We custom blended skin tones, we did unique facial sculps. 199 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 3: We even created a new hair fiber like locks has 200 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 3: never been done mass produced, never ever been done mass produced. 201 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 4: And we can. 202 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: We do we have a pattern there because we didn't 203 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: want to cheat just get anything that's on the shelf 204 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: and say Oh, well, we'll take that because I know 205 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:56,239 Speaker 3: the difference between. 206 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: A braid and a lock, right, my team does too. 207 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: We knew braids wasn't wasn't the key, it was wear it, 208 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 3: so we had to create it. So again, it was 209 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 3: a joyful experience. But like anything that you've committed to 210 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: and your heart is involved in, you go the extra mile. 211 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: So we went the extra mile to make sure those 212 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: dolls were authentic, representative, and beautiful. 213 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 4: One hundred. 214 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: Can you talk about ways how you view us in 215 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: society and continuing to find ways to lean into our 216 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: culture and authenticity and how that translates ultimately into pushing society. 217 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 4: To change his behaviors. I think about us. 218 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: Embracing natural hair in the workplace in corporate environments when 219 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: historically that was a faux pa because it needed to 220 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: be a certain type of way. So how can us 221 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: continuing to lean into this our authenticity and having that 222 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: representation from the toy level up change the culture in 223 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: our day and age. 224 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: It starts with us, right when it comes to our culture, 225 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 3: it starts with us. It starts with us which we 226 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: do recognizing it, appreciating it, and celebrating it. And when 227 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: we want to buy and purchase things made by our 228 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: community for our community. 229 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 2: It makes a difference. One, it helps those black and brown. 230 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 3: Companies thrive and grow, but then it also gets the 231 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 3: attention of other major companies. I mean, let's be real, 232 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: they may not always be socially conscious, but they are 233 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 3: always profit driven conscious. And I'm not criticizing that. I'm 234 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: just making a statement. And so when we as a 235 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: community demand better and we only pay for what's better, 236 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 3: then all companies rise up to that and they start 237 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: producing better quality products for us. And that's what's happened 238 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 3: in terms of dolls. When we started, it was very 239 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 3: hard because there was no one else really doing authentic dolls, 240 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 3: no one when we started, and then there was a 241 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 3: buzz that started. I'm happy to say that now there 242 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 3: are others that are really trying to do more ethnically relevant, 243 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 3: more representative dolls. That pleases me again because our children 244 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: and adults for that matter, have dolls. 245 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: That represent them. But first it starts with us demanding it. 246 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: We have to s and we demand not only with 247 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 3: our voices, not only with our marches, but we demand 248 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 3: with our dollars. That's really what people hear. It's where 249 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 3: we use our dollars. 250 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna touch on this Toy Assocition t Toy 251 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: Association Board of Directors a couple of times. And I know, Yea, 252 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: you may not be the chair, so I'm not gonna ask. 253 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 4: You to speak officially for the board. But I think 254 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 4: about you, j. 255 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: You just mentioned there's other people coming into the fora 256 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: with other ethnic and you know multi you know, different tones, 257 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: body skin tones for dolls, and historically when that happens, 258 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: large retailers will pick one and there won't be enough 259 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: shelf space for two or three different options. You think 260 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: about that, like, you know, when I was growing up, 261 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: you had one type of hair product that was for men. 262 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: It was by a black company, and that was the 263 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: only one you had. Today, you have different options because 264 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: they have maybe an aisle for us when. 265 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 4: It was just a a a section before. 266 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: How do we continue to fight for and accomplish shelf 267 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: space so that we proliferate in these retail environments. 268 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 3: Again, everything and we're talking about economics and business, we're 269 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: talking about money when it really boiled down to it, right, 270 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: So you are so right. 271 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 2: Here's a brilliant comment. Shelf spaces looked at like real estate. 272 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 3: Right, So there's so much real estate, and that real 273 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 3: estate should bring in so many hundreds of thousands of 274 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 3: millions of dollars during a particular time period. So retailers 275 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: are looking at, how can I maximize my real estate? 276 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 3: Can I put what product is going to can I 277 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 3: put on my shelf that's going to generate the highest margin, 278 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 3: the highest turns for me. So it goes back again 279 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: to us demanding with our dollars what we want to purchase. 280 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 2: When we purchase. 281 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 3: Things that are truly authentic and truly representative, then that's 282 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: what the retails restock. That's when they start expanding that 283 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: shelf space, expanding. 284 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: That real estate. 285 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 3: So they're getting a bigger bang for the doll for 286 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 3: the product they put on the shelf. 287 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: And so from to that end, so many dollars, particularly 288 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: the dolls of color, have leaned on brands first in 289 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: order to create that demand. You know, like I think 290 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: about like a doc ment Stuffians doc ment stuffans with 291 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: that cartoon first, then they can come out with a 292 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: doll and do these other things. And we hear so 293 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: often talk about you know, building the brand before you 294 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: invest in physical products, because you want to make sure 295 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: that demand is there at the onset. You bootstrapped first, 296 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: and so there was no demand built up from a 297 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: marketing standpoint for your particular offering. There may have been 298 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: children and parents out there looking for representation, But how 299 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: did that How did you make that work to your advantage? 300 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it was your background and supply chain logistics, I 301 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: don't know how how did you create that brand awareness 302 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: so that the demand followed. 303 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: So it's amazing how one's life is like a thread 304 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 3: that weaves through your life. So I was a professor first, 305 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 3: as I said earlier, and as a professor, I had 306 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: written books, academic books as real as trade books. And anyway, 307 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 3: one of the books included Walmart executives, as it did 308 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: Procter and Gamble, and that one didn't. 309 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: But it included. 310 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 3: Seers, military generals and the CEO of Walmart. I say 311 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 3: all that to say it so I got to know 312 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: the people at Walmart, and so they actually had asked 313 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 3: me about doing publishing, like publishing children's books, And at 314 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: first I said no because I didn't know anything about 315 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 3: publishing children's books either. I was an academic, right, but 316 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 3: I thought I want to support literacy and children, and 317 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 3: I can make sure that all children are represented. 318 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: So that's what I did in books. 319 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 3: The books did so well that they asked me to 320 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: do a line of dolls in the image and likeness 321 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: of the characters and the books. 322 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: But I said no, will. 323 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: Because I knew nothing about dolls at all. Two or 324 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: three weeks later, I see the documentary, so I go 325 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: back and say, yes, Walmart, I will do this. 326 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: So my story is a little different. 327 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: But what I can say, generally speaking, for those who 328 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: are looking to enter into a space like getting to 329 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: mass retail is first of all, walk the shelves, walk 330 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 3: the store, see what they have and see what's missing, 331 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: whatever's instinct is what you want to now create a 332 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 3: product for. And then you want to tap on their door, 333 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: which actually is not that hard not to get meetings 334 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: with buyers. I mean, it's challenging, certainly, but it's not 335 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: impossible because all of them on their websites, be a 336 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 3: wal Mart or target, they'll have how you can reach 337 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 3: out to the buyers. They actually do look at those 338 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: submissions online and then they'll call you in for a meeting, 339 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: and then that's a whole different process of things. You 340 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 3: need to do once you have the meeting, to make 341 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: sure your meeting is successful. 342 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're going to talk about that, because that's 343 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: what here for a black tech Greek money I want 344 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: to be. I read that you you know, you decided 345 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: to bootstrap. You didn't want to take on a bunch 346 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: of investors because you wanted to retain that ownership. 347 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 4: And so often we. 348 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: Probably to our own demise box that into what. 349 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 4: You can't scale if you bootstrap. 350 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: You got to bring on investors. If you want to 351 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: go big or you're just going to build a lifestyle company, 352 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: you can't really build something that scales and you know, 353 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: employees tons of. 354 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 4: People if that's the goal. 355 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: And so how how do you think about retaining control 356 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: and or ownership And how did you find a way 357 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: to bootstrap something that actually needed an upfront investment because 358 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: you needed physical products? 359 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 2: My god, it's an amazing question. So you are so right. 360 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 3: I consciously made a decision not to accept investors. And 361 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 3: the reason why I did that is because I wanted 362 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 3: to make sure that the product that we created were authentic. 363 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 3: And when I'm doing that, sometimes I'm spending more money 364 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 3: than the average company would spend on dolls right because 365 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 3: the hair's got to be right. 366 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: So I got to spend extra money for the hair. 367 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 3: I got a blend ex special concoct or combination for 368 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 3: the skin tone. 369 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 2: So I'm spending more money. 370 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 5: I know. 371 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 3: An investor would tell me, stop, you don't need a 372 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 3: different face scope for every ethnicity, right the one for 373 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: the black, or work for the white, wait to work 374 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 3: for the Asians. 375 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 2: All the same. 376 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 3: I knew to be true to the vision and to 377 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 3: really uplift these children, that wasn't going to work. 378 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: So that's why I said no investors. Now how did 379 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: I do it? 380 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 3: Gosh, it was paid. It was painful, will I'm not 381 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: going to tell you it wasn't. I started out by 382 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 3: credit cards like most people do. Yeah, after I use 383 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 3: all of my credit cards and friends and family. Then 384 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 3: I mortgaged the house after the house, and I took 385 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: what I could out of my life insurance. After that, 386 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: I took what I could out of my retirement. So 387 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 3: I literally was all in my husband's I'm the biggest 388 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 3: gamble he's ever met, because I literally put everything. 389 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: On the line for this company. 390 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: And I didn't and it didn't work smoothly all the 391 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 3: time because I had to file bankruptcy just as total 392 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 3: transparency with your audience. It was not easy, but even 393 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 3: in those times, I was still committed. 394 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: To making sure that these dolls represent our children. 395 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 3: So even then, I didn't want investors because if you 396 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: take investors when you're in that stage when you're really 397 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: vulnerable financially and now you're really at their back and 398 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 3: costs like they have total control of the company and 399 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: all creative aspects. I didn't want that. 400 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: Again. I knew that it was going to be done right. 401 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 3: It had to be done by me, with my heart 402 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: and my passion to make sure that these children were represented. 403 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 3: So yeah, no, it wasn't easy, but yeah I did 404 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 3: bootstrap it. I still do today, and now we're very profitable, 405 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 3: thank goodness. 406 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 2: I am hiring people. 407 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 3: We are moving into animation, so we're going to have 408 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 3: animation series coming out, we're expanding our doll lines more, 409 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 3: we're doing more licensing deals. 410 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: So things are really good. 411 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 3: And we own one hundred percent of the IPS, which 412 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: is important. 413 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 4: That's fantastic. 414 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: And so what were the indicators when you were in 415 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: those stressful financial times that said, you know. 416 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 4: Just keep going because there's got to be. 417 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: Something that's something that's a flicker of light in the tunnel. 418 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: The children. For me, it was and it still is, 419 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: the children. 420 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 3: And when I would think about quitting, and I did 421 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 3: many days I thought about quitting, and then I would 422 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 3: wake up in the morning and I'd say, but if 423 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: you don't do this, who is going to create dolls 424 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: for these beautiful black and brown children? 425 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: And I would. 426 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 3: Envision them playing on the floor and just seeing how 427 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 3: they would have nothing that looked like them, or they 428 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: could have doll that truly reflected their brilliance and their beauty. 429 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 3: And that will is what kept me going on every day. 430 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 3: And I would but I was in a sort of surrender. 431 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 3: I also want to say that I was, you know, 432 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 3: if the things had turned and you know, things didn't 433 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 3: take off, I was okay with that. I got to 434 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 3: that point in my life where I said, you can 435 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 3: either do it this way and fail, or you can 436 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 3: stay safe and keep your same safe life. 437 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: At the end, when you're lying on. 438 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 3: Your deathbed, do you want to say I did it 439 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 3: and I failed, which is a possibility, or I never 440 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 3: even tried. I didn't even take the courage to try, 441 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 3: or the experience I'm having now I took the courage. Yeah, 442 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: it was rocky, but it won, and it won not 443 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 3: only financially, but it won most importantly by really authentically 444 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 3: representing our children. That's what gives me the greatest joy, 445 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 3: the greatest high ever. 446 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: Is this knowing I've made a difference in the lives 447 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: of children. 448 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: I've heard your problem in your company being described as 449 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: a mission driven doll line, and this is this is 450 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: this question comes from. 451 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 4: The perspective of at what point are we just mainstream 452 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 4: and just mainstream? Right? 453 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: So I don't go to Kroger grocery store because of 454 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: its mission that girl because they have what I need, right, 455 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: And I wonder at what point? Not that there's anything 456 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: against mission driven, but my question is, at what point 457 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: is it just we have beautiful black dolls? Why do 458 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: we have to be always statement making? If that makes sense, it. 459 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: Makes perfect sense, and we don't. To answer your question, 460 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: we don't always. 461 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 3: We don't have to be. For me, I was purpose driven, right. 462 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 3: It was a purpose seeing that little girl and make 463 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 3: sure she had dolls that looked like her. So that 464 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: was my purpose and that was so much that it 465 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 3: drove me, Like I said, through the bankruptcies, and you. 466 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 2: Know that was what continued to drive me. 467 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: Had I been driven by money, just as an example, 468 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: I would have given up and going back to being 469 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 3: a professor because it's making way more money than I 470 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 3: was as an entrepreneur for many, many, many, like decades. 471 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 3: Literally I would have made more money as a professor. 472 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: But it wasn't about the money for me. It really 473 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 3: was about making a difference in kids' lives. 474 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: That makes total sense because I think about this in 475 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: so many ways. And I was having this conversation with 476 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: I think doctor Key Holman from the Village Market in Atlanta, 477 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: and we were talking about why it's again, I don't 478 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: shop at certain certain stores. I just shop at just 479 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: because they have what I need. But I don't know 480 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: much about you know, what the mission is, if there's 481 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: a mission that they promote. But I wonder, at what 482 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: point can we just create a Tanka toy without it 483 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: having to be you know, this is because we don't 484 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: have black trucks in black bulldozer toys built for black kids. 485 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to say, is at what point 486 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: can we get there? 487 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 3: We'll get there when there's more of us doing it 488 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: for purpose because the fact is there is nothing right, 489 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 3: there is nothing, so other companies can just make a 490 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: tonka because there's like tons of red and blue trucks 491 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 3: out there for us, there are no trucks that apply 492 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 3: to us, so we got to make a truck for us. 493 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 3: Then once there's so many of trucks for us that 494 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 3: it's like, well. 495 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: I just want to make a helicopter. I don't care. 496 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: I just want to make a helicopter. 497 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 4: That makes sense. 498 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 2: That's I think. 499 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I think we're in the infancy, 500 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 3: and in terms of our community and manufacture, I think 501 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 3: we're in the emfancy. 502 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 2: But we're going to move out of that. And then 503 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 2: you're right, it's just going to be an economic decision. 504 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: Because you see so many toys as part of your 505 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: board role and you just being out there, are there 506 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: unique things happening created by black toy designers and black 507 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: toy makers that we should be paying attention to. 508 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 3: You know, I think the toy industry is probably one 509 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 3: of those unknown, slash forgotten industries for black creatives. Unfortunately, 510 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: I don't see a lot of black creatives and toys. 511 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 3: I hope again to change that. I mean we give 512 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 3: scholarships to colleges, we do internships. I'm always mentoring students. 513 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: So it is my hope that we are not only 514 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 3: creating dolls for children and that's going to continue generations, 515 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 3: but we are also helping to educate and invite other 516 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 3: diverse talent into the toy industry because there's a wealth 517 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 3: of opportunity. We just need to attract the talent. 518 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: Do you think you have a responsibility then to be 519 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: visible and yeah. 520 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, and not only to be visible, but my 521 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: entire company to be representative. So in my company we 522 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: are one hundred percent diverse. 523 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And. 524 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 3: That's important because we're creating dolls for Asian children and 525 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 3: black children. And I'm not Asian, so I would never 526 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: to do an Asian doll, right, That'd be inauthentic. But 527 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 3: if I have a great talented Asian creative, then yes, 528 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 3: we can work together as to create this amazing product 529 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 3: for all children. 530 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 2: And that's what we do. So yes, I do feel 531 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 2: I have a responsibility to. 532 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 3: Be seen, to be heard, and not only embraced, but 533 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 3: to welcome, welcome in the next generation. 534 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that you know you don't see 535 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: and I've to be honest, I have not heard about 536 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: many toy makers who are black people. To your point, 537 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: we don't see enough of us doing this. And I 538 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: wonder if, having seen you now and more people becoming 539 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: aware of your story, if our creativity finds its outlet 540 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: in that way, because maybe we thought we were supposed 541 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: to deploy that creativity in one direction, but toys is 542 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: a better direction or another direction that we should consider. 543 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 2: I agree toys. 544 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 3: The annual revenue for toys outstrips the entertainment industry. We're 545 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 3: talking about must hundreds of billions of dollars in toys. 546 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 3: But I don't think we recognize it as a community 547 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: because we have the talent. Oh my gosh, have you 548 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 3: seen the artists in our community. Oh, just breathtaking. So 549 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 3: they just need to understand that there's another avenue to 550 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 3: express that creative juice, right, and it's in toys. 551 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 4: So what are some of the first steps. 552 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: Let's say, you know, I'm an artist and I was 553 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: thinking where we had Gracie's Corner on here a couple 554 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, an animation series on Big Big on YouTube. 555 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: And there are other animators out there and designers and 556 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: et cetera. What are some of the easiest ways to 557 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: create those demo toys or those you know, sample toys. 558 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm talking about from a manufacturing perspective, like, what do 559 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: we need to get started on the road of doing this? 560 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 3: So let me make sure I clarify because there's two 561 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 3: different I hear two different questions. How do we get 562 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: into the industry or how do we manufacture product? 563 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 4: What's the first steps? 564 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: So I've got, you know, maybe the design that I draw, 565 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: and I want to make this superhero cartoon character. 566 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 4: I have a toy. What do I do next? 567 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 2: Got it? 568 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: Okay, So the first thing you do is you trademarket. 569 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 3: Let's get what you created, right, So, let's get your 570 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: lawyer go online, figure out how to trademark your IP 571 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 3: number one. Then after that, make contact with If you're 572 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 3: very first time out, you want to make a contact 573 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 3: with a factory, and so maybe the best way of 574 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: doing is working through a sourcing agent. 575 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 2: And a sourcing agent. 576 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,479 Speaker 3: Can help you do a lot of things that can 577 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 3: help you identify a factory. 578 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 2: They can even help you develop terms with that. 579 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 3: Factory, and they may have avenues with retailers perhaps, And 580 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 3: so after you have your product made, you get a 581 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 3: prototype of that, and then you knock on retailers doors 582 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 3: and you take your research of hey, I walked your stores. 583 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 3: Here's what I see you're missing. Here's how my product 584 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 3: can satisfy it at a reasonable cost, and this is 585 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 3: how I can deliver. And most importantly, here is my 586 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 3: marketing plan of how I'm going to help you Walmart, Target, 587 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 3: Maycy's to help move my product off the shelf, because 588 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: that's the key, right we can all get product. 589 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 2: On the shelf. 590 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 3: And no, people think that's really hard, and it is. 591 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to say it's not. It's incredibly difficult 592 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 3: to get product a mass retail incredibly well, what is 593 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 3: really harder, if you will, is to get it off 594 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 3: the shelf, meaning getting that consumer to walk in looking 595 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 3: for your product and buy it. So having a great 596 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 3: marketing plan is also what's needed. And then you just 597 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: need to have great supply chain to get the product 598 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: to the retailer, and then a great analyst to analyze 599 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: your sales. What product is working well, what product isn't 600 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 3: working so well, how do we improve the one that 601 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 3: isn't working so well, and even suggest a replacement for it. 602 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 2: If it's really not performing and. 603 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 3: Just keep a partnership relationship with your retailers. 604 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't do that. 605 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 3: A lot of people think when they're working with the 606 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 3: big box retailers, it's like, well, I'm working with Walmart, 607 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 3: I'm working with Target. 608 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: They got more than enough money. I'm just gonna shave 609 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 2: a little. 610 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 3: Bit off here, take a little bit off here, and 611 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 3: not necessarily be a true partner to really succeed. Whether 612 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 3: it's in retail or whether it's really in life, it 613 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 3: is about being an ethic, integral supplier that will honestly 614 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 3: work together as partners with the retailer to actually move 615 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: product and to get your product into the hands of 616 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 3: the consumer. 617 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: So you went to school for logistics, your doctor there 618 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: first PhD from the Ohio State University of black woman 619 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: African American period, not even just black women to have 620 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: a PhD in logistics from the Ohio State University. And 621 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: I heard you say a couple of things in your 622 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: tutorial there on how to come from idea to execution 623 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: on toys. I'm assuming some of your logistics background helped 624 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: you speak the language. 625 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 3: Yes, it did, particularly when it came to the manufacturing 626 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: and the shipping and going and shipping internationally and the warehousing. 627 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: And yes, it absolutely did. 628 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 3: But I will tell you I wrote books on logistics 629 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 3: and supply chain, I wrote articles on it. 630 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: I did a dissertation thesis on it. 631 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: Nothing really prepared me until I actually did it. 632 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: You know, it's one thing to study it and to 633 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: write about it. 634 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 3: It's a whole nother ballgame to really get your feed 635 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 3: in there and start doing it. But yes, having that 636 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 3: background did help because I could, to your point, speak 637 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 3: the language, or I knew enough to know what I 638 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 3: didn't know, and I knew where to go out and 639 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 3: get the information. And that's also very helpful. You don't 640 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 3: have to know every answer. You're not actually you're not 641 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: supposed to know every answer, but two things. You need 642 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 3: to know how to find the answer, and you have 643 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 3: to be humble enough to work with people who are 644 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 3: smarter than you. I love that, because that's how you're 645 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 3: gonna learn. If you're hiring people that know what you know, 646 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 3: then you know, y'all, y'all not gonna proceed. But if 647 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 3: you say you know what, I know this much, I 648 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 3: need to hire somebody who knows this and I'm not 649 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 3: intimidated by the fact that they know more than I 650 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: do in this particular area. 651 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: Now we can both grow. 652 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: So I want to hear the I've heard you discussed 653 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: before the benefit of not having a ton of experience 654 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: in a particular industry category. And so often when we 655 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: do have experience, we come in with defaults and assumptions 656 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: on how things are supposed to go. But when you 657 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: don't have experience, that can be a benefit as well, 658 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: because because you can take roads people with experience won't 659 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: take because they already made assumptions about it. 660 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 4: Can you talk more about that that. 661 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: It was one of the greatest revelations that I had. 662 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 3: That question, right, there has so many jewels in it. 663 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 3: What you just said, Yes, when I moved it to toys, 664 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 3: as I said, I had no mentoring, I had no money, 665 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: I had no internship, no experience, nobody to help me, nothing, 666 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: literally nothing, And for so long, literally longer than I 667 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 3: care to admit, probably a year or two, I kept thinking. 668 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 2: That was a disadvantage, like I don't know what they know. 669 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 3: They've been doing it longer they went to school for 670 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 3: But one girlfriend told me one day as I was 671 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: sitting there lamenting about it. 672 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: I don't know this bill, sorry for yourself, right flyssory 673 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: for myself. 674 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: But what I don't know? 675 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 3: And she said to me, because you don't know what 676 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 3: you just said, Well, you don't have any perceived a 677 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 3: concept of how this is supposed to work. You know, 678 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 3: you can start and look at things fresh. And I did, 679 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 3: and that's why I have custom Blenda Skintnes. Nobody else 680 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 3: did that because they knew there was a book you 681 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 3: could go to. 682 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: Well I didn't. I had to create. 683 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 3: Those colors myself, which it ended up being more accurate. 684 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 3: And that's what we're known for now. So had I 685 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 3: had that preconceived notion, Oh, just go to this Pantone 686 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 3: book how we do business, the authenticity would have been 687 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 3: very different. So yes, I come into this not knowing, 688 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 3: and so I break all the barriers. I break the 689 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 3: rules because I don't. 690 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 2: Because I don't know any betre, I don't know. This 691 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 2: can't be done right. 692 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: No one told me you can't move from being a 693 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 3: professor over doing toys and interacting with people and China 694 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: around the world because you don't have the knowledge and 695 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 3: background all the money to do it. No one told 696 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 3: me that, So I didn't think it was impossible. 697 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: I literally saw a TV show and thought I can 698 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 2: create a dog company me. 699 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I did, And I did because I didn't 700 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 3: believe I couldn't. 701 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: So there are three overarching highlights from this interview for me, 702 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: and I'm going to ask you after I repeat them 703 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: for me. 704 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 4: One, you came from a. 705 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: Very successful previous career and you decided to give that 706 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: up to pursue this. Two, there's not enough of us 707 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: creating toys or seeing toys as an option, and we 708 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: should see it as an option. And three, you know, 709 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: the stop feeling sorry for yourself when you don't have 710 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: as much experience, because that can be a benefit. Those 711 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: are three takeaways for me, and I wonder if you 712 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: could give us some of the best advice you've either 713 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: formulated because of your experience or that you've received to 714 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: help us to reach the kind of successes that you've reached. 715 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 2: There's two pieces of advice. One is I heard someone say, gosh, 716 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 2: there's so many. Now there's three pieces of advice. 717 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 4: Just give us all give us all of it. 718 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: Okay. 719 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 3: So even for me, I remember serving on the board 720 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: at Walmart and I was a young entrepreneur. 721 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: I mean young as in five years with young entrepreneur. 722 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 3: And I was in the room with these women that 723 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 3: literally one of them had a companies had that was 724 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 3: worth a billion dollars, others had seventy eight million, another thirty. 725 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: And I'm sitting there and I realized that no, they 726 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 3: weren't black women, but there were women, and that they 727 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 3: had to change, you know, thirty seventy eight, one hundred 728 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 3: billion dollars, billion dollar company. And I'm like, they're no 729 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 3: different than I am. So it was representation for me. 730 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 3: So representation counts. 731 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 2: It matters. 732 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 3: I don't care if it's skin tone, I don't care 733 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 3: if it's ethnicity, or for success in business, you need 734 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 3: a role model to know that it's possible. 735 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: So that's one. 736 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 3: The other is I always like to say to people 737 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 3: that when you're doing something lived by your heart, it 738 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 3: may seem crazy to other people, but ignore it. It's 739 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,959 Speaker 3: kind of like, you know, if you're looking at people 740 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 3: who are dancing and you can't hear the music, they 741 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 3: actually look insane. When you can hear the music, it 742 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 3: all makes perfect sense and it's all orchestrated. So that's 743 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 3: how I look at my life and I think, you know, 744 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 3: for those who couldn't hear the music, like, why is 745 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 3: she leaving a successful career where she's known all over 746 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 3: the world and doing something she knows nothing about. Well, 747 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 3: that's because they couldn't hear my music. So I looked 748 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 3: insane to them. You know, fast forward twenty years, you 749 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 3: know now I think they're hearing my music. 750 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 5: Right. 751 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 2: So you have to follow your heart and listen to 752 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 2: your music. Others will give you great. 753 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: Advice, but always always listen to it with a temple 754 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 3: of your music, meaning does this make sense for me? 755 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 3: And another thing I'd also say, one other piece of 756 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 3: advice I learned, don't play us so safe in life. 757 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 2: Really, don't we have one life. Live it to the fullest. 758 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 3: Don't sit there and say I can't because I'm scared 759 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 3: or I don't want. 760 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: I'm scared. I want to do it, but I'm scared. 761 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 3: Take the step in faith and watch and see what 762 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 3: it will happen. Because that's what I did, and it 763 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 3: wasn't easy. I just I described it was not an 764 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 3: easy process. But as I took the faithful steps, every 765 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 3: step got easier because my faith grew. And as my 766 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 3: faith grew, myself awareness, my self worth grew and as 767 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 3: that grew, then I was making decisions that felt more empowered. 768 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: And then I wasn't intimidated by the big companies anymore. 769 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 2: It's like, well, I'll make as good a doll as 770 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 2: they do. 771 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, they got you know, three hundred thousand employees and 772 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: I got three. But you know, we're doing the same thing. 773 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 3: I'm in the retailers. There in the retailers, I'm manufacturing. 774 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 3: I have factories, they have factories. So it's just the 775 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 3: thing about scale. But as you grow in your faith, 776 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 3: as you grow are seeing your successes, then you. 777 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 2: Become more confident. 778 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 3: As you become more confident, your company goes from one 779 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 3: million to twenty million, thirty or fifty to sixty million. 780 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 5: That's just how it works. 781 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afrotech 782 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: on the Black Effect podcast Network and I Heart Media, 783 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas. 784 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: The additional production support by Sarah Ergan. 785 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 4: And Rose McLucas. 786 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis. Someone That's a Serrano, 787 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: Mayamol Drew. Learn more about my Guess and other technis 788 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: up there's an innovatives at afrotech dot com enjoying black. 789 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 4: Tech, green money. Share this with somebody. 790 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 1: Gon't get your money. 791 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 4: He's in love.