1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and 2 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, November eighteenth, twenty 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in LA. 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: He's in New York, and Vridy has reporters around the 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode, we'll 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: talk with Friday's Gene Mattis about the rapid growth of 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: microdramas a production activity in LA and other areas of 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: the US. It's involving a whole lot of workaday actors 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: and sag After wants to have something to say about that. 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: And then we'll hear from Variety's Elsa Caslasi from Paris 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: as she digests the week that she just spent in 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: Rainy Century City covering the American film market. But before 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: we get to that, here are a few headlines just 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: in this morning that you need to know. The alphabetsu 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: loop of shuffles among major PR firms is not slowing down. 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: RNCPMK is being absorbed by Michael Nyman's Acceleration community of companies. 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: Nyman has been assembling a portfolio of some specialty pr, 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: marketing and branding firms since twenty nineteen. Now some seventy 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: seven rn CPMK alums we'll move to Nyman's acc to 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: form PMK Entertainment. RNCPMK leaders Cindy Berger and Alan Eurob 22 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: will transition to the roles of CEO and President of 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: PMK Entertainment, respectively. The jockeying for position around Warner Brothers 24 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: Discovery continues as the soft deadline for early bids approaches 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: later this week. Saudi Arabia's Sovereign Wealth Fund PIF is 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: seriously hovering around the deal, perhaps in partnership with Comcast. 27 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: The Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad Ben Solman is meeting with 28 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: Donald Trump in the White House as I record this. 29 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: The message couldn't be much clearer, and we know m 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: MBS really really wants to build out Saudi Arabia's media 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: and entertainment infrastructure. Roadblocks is taking steps to toughen up 32 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: its child safety procedures under increased pressure from marketers and 33 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the threat of regulation. The popular online gaming platform will 34 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: launch facial age checks as a requirement for all users 35 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: who want to access the communication features of the platform. 36 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: Starting in December, Roadblocks has also implemented what it calls 37 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: chats to limit communication between miners and adults. All of 38 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: these stories and so much more can be found on 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: Variety dot com right now. Now it's time for conversations 40 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: with Variety journalists about news and trends and showbiz. Today 41 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: we'll hear from Gene Madis, Variety's senior media reporter, on 42 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 1: the macroeconomic issues around microdramas, short form content, vertical series, 43 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: whatever you call them, they should not be dismissed as 44 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: a flash in the pan. That's based on the volume 45 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: of activity that Gene's reporting has uncovered. Gene Mattis, thanks 46 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: for joining me. 47 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: Happy to do it. 48 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: You are one of our best diggers on staff, and 49 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: we have sent you out to really understand what is 50 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: going on with microdramas, short form content verticals, whatever you 51 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: call them. Everybody's talking about them. You wrote a terrific 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: story for us that ran in the November twelfth print 53 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: edition of Variety and on Variety dot com. You looked 54 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: into the union issues and all of the business issues 55 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: that are emerging around microdramas. My first takeaway from that 56 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: is this is not something that's coming for the US industry. 57 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: This is here you quote a number of US actors 58 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: that are making these ultra low budgets, super short episode 59 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: shows in the US as we speak. Did it surprise 60 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: you as you did your reporting? 61 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. I mean, honestly, this is not the kind 62 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: of thing that I watch, and I think a lot 63 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: of people who work in the industry also don't watch this. 64 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: But clearly somebody's watching it because it's definitely doing well 65 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: and taking off and growing really fast, but otherwise really 66 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: sort of bleak period for the industry. It's really one 67 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: of the few bright spots, one of the few things 68 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: that's that's really growing. And they're being filmed in Los Angeles. 69 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: Everybody's talked about production is fleeing Los Angeles. These are 70 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: being shot in LA as we speak. 71 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: Can I ask just in the mechanics are you getting 72 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: casting breakdowns? Does this production go through the traditional process 73 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: of casting breakdowns, open calls, all of that, or is 74 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: there a micro network for micro dramas if. 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: You go on the platforms to actors access that kind 76 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,119 Speaker 2: of thing that you could find casting calls for these 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 2: for these kinds of things. The trick is, if you're 78 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: in SAG AFTRA, you cannot work on these These are 79 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: non union projects, and so it's really a great opportunity 80 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: for people who are not yet in the union, or 81 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: maybe you haven't gotten enough work on union projects yet 82 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 2: to actually be a fully fledged member. And if that's 83 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: if that's you, then you're eligible to work on these things. 84 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: If you're in the union, you're not allowed to work 85 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: non union. That's global rule one under SAG After. So 86 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: it's really been an interesting ecosystem that's grown up without 87 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: any union activity at all. 88 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, if you log a 89 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: number of hours or work credits on micro dramas, that 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: won't accrue to your sag after membership because these aren't 91 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: union to begin with. From what you've reported, how do 92 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: you think they're going to deal with that right now? 93 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: Both the producers of micro dramas and the SAG After union. 94 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting is if you're in SAG or honestly, 95 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: if you're in the WGA and you look around and like, 96 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: where are the jobs at right now? This is a 97 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: place where there are an increasing number of jobs, but 98 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 2: you're not eligible to take them because you're in the 99 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: union and their non union jobs. And so what some 100 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: people are doing is either resigning from sag After going 101 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: FI Corps or just simply doing the job and not 102 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: telling the union about it, right, And another option is 103 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: you could do it under a fake name so that 104 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: they can't find out about it. And that's stuff that 105 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: apparently people are all doing because this is where the 106 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 2: work is. So so that's obviously if you're sitting in 107 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: the position of sag After, that's not a healthy circumstance 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: if your members are hiding from you the fact that 109 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: they're working. And so you want to figure out, like, okay, 110 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: if our members want to work in this space, is 111 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: there a way for us to make that happen under 112 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: union terms? And that's what sag after is trying to do. 113 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 1: It came out about a month ago. They were very 114 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: early into coming out with a proposed here's our low budget, 115 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: here's our proposed contract to work within this ultra low 116 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: budget framework. But from what you heard from producers, what 117 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: they're asking for is still a budget busting request for 118 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: healthcare and the baseline protection that sag After has fought 119 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: for almost one hundred years to achieve. You can't blame 120 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: the union for asking that. But again, at the budgets 121 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: of two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand per series that 122 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: runs about fifty minutes but might be twenty five two 123 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: minute episodes, producers are saying, we just can't do this 124 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: or do you sense is there room for comprom here? 125 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: Do you think the union's going to take a hard 126 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: line potentially? 127 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: I think the producers are very open to having this conversation, 128 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: but there's some things about the model that they've created 129 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: that resist unionization. I mean a key one is just 130 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: the amount of process in paperwork that going with a 131 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: SAG production would require. And you can't wait around for 132 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: SAG to approve your deal in microdramas, like people find 133 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: out about a project on Friday and they're shooting it 134 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: on Tuesday. It's a real quick turnaround type thing. And 135 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: that's a big concern In terms of the cost. It's 136 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: not that the daily rate that SAG is requiring would 137 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: be that high. I mean it's like two hundred and 138 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: fifty dollars or something a day, which is not much funny. 139 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: It's more I think they feel like, okay, we have 140 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: some SAG actors, some non SAG actors, and I'm paying 141 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: pension in health for the SAG actors, but now I'm 142 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: also paying pension in health for the non SAG actors. 143 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: And why is that? Because those people aren't actually going 144 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: to qualify for healthcare under this project, and yet I'm 145 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: still paying their pension and health contributions. Like why am 146 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: I doing that? 147 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: Well? 148 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: For SEC That's going to be a pretty hard line, 149 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: because you know, pension and health is pretty fundamental to 150 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: what unions are all about. 151 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: Do you have any sense of the volume of production. 152 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: I know it's hard to put a number on it, 153 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: but your sense is that these that this is really ramping. 154 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there are studies that throw out numbers. 155 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: I don't know how anyone could know for sure what 156 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: the actual number is, but just anecdotally, people are certainly 157 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 2: doing a lot of work in this space and hearing 158 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: about a lot more work. And it's you know, if 159 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: you cover this industry, everybody you talked to the last 160 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: three years has been talking about how there's no work, 161 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: there's no work. And this is the first conversation that 162 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: I've had in any genre where people are talking about 163 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: just there's so much work that we have to turn 164 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: it down. So something's happening out there. This is actually 165 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: a growth business, and so it makes sense for PSAG 166 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: to try to get in. 167 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Is it your sense that a lot of this is 168 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: happening in LA, in New York, in big production hubs. 169 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: It's diffused around the country. 170 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: LA New York as well, but primarily LA. And it 171 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 2: goes against that whole narrative that we've heard about jobs 172 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,599 Speaker 2: are fleeing LA and there's not enough tax incentives Like 173 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: these are not incentivized projects. These are not getting tax 174 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: rebates from the state of California. They're just super low 175 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 2: budget projects. And part of the way that they are 176 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: super low budget is they're working non union. There's a 177 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: number of factors when we talk about the decline of 178 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: production in Los Angeles, incentives and other places overseas, et cetera. 179 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: One of those factors is cost, and everybody talks about 180 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: how costly it is to shoot in LA. Well, these 181 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: folks have figured out how to do it for cheap, 182 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: and so that's an interesting conversation to have. I mean, 183 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: these are tiny, tiny budgets, right, like two hundred thousand 184 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 2: dollars for what they would turn like a feature film, 185 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 2: so eighty or ninety minute thing they'll shoot for two 186 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars and then they'll chop it up into 187 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: ninety second segments and distribute that. 188 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: Did you get any sent from the companies that are 189 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: producing these? Is there about the larger business model? Are 190 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: these produced specifically to exist in these streaming apps in 191 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: which they are? Some are subscription and some are supported 192 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: by advertising, some both? But is there a larger play? 193 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: Are ambitious producers saying, look, I'm going to make this 194 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: these two minute episodes stringing together to fifty minutes for 195 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: an hour, but my goal is to sell a version 196 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: of this show to NBC or to Bravo or to 197 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: Apple TV. 198 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: The way the model works is it's super low cost 199 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: and then you can hopefully turn a profit through in 200 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: app purchases. And so you have your app, and if 201 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: people want to see the next episode, they have to 202 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: pay you five bucks or whatever it is, or they 203 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: can pay to see the whole rest of the show. 204 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 2: And so it's a low cost, low revenue type model. 205 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: And potentially down the line, you could see if one 206 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: of these titles becomes popular IP on its own, then 207 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: it could become spun off in a number of different formats, 208 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: but right now, this is the format that people are 209 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: focused on and trying to make this work. 210 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: Okay, Geene, So let me ask you, now, this is 211 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: a tough question. I know you watched several of these. 212 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: I know that there's a bit of perils of pauline 213 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: quality to it. You've got to end on a cliffhanger 214 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: if you want to get that dollar ninety nine or 215 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: whatever you pay for your next episode. What did any 216 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: of the titles that you perused anything impress you with? 217 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting how they'll put extra production values 218 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: into the pre paywall scene. If you're going to spend 219 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 2: money in microdramas anywhere, that is the place you want 220 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 2: to spend it. But the guy I talked to with 221 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: features end of the story, his name's Nick Rotaco, and 222 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: he's done like forty of these in the two years, right, 223 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: And he's a journeyman actor who started in New York 224 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: and did guest spots here and there, and all of 225 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: a sudden his career is just taking off. He plays 226 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: the brooding, handsome lead in all these things who sweeps 227 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: the angenu offer feet and it's a formula obviously, but 228 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: it's a formula that appears to be working. 229 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Gene, thank you for putting your smarts into this area. 230 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: And of course there's other unions that have a stake 231 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: in this, the writers, the directors, the crew. So this 232 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: is certainly not the last that we will be talking 233 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: about an evolving business model for micro dramas, at least 234 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: in the US. 235 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: YEP. 236 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, and now we'll hear from our one and 237 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: only international editor, Elsa Caslassi in Paris. She spent the 238 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: past week in the bowels of the Century Plaza hotel 239 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: covering the American Film Market. That is, the annual bazaar 240 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: of films of all kinds, from slasher picks to costume dramas. 241 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: Elsa and Variety's London bureau chief Alex Ritman covered the 242 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: heck out of that market. I recorded a segment with 243 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,359 Speaker 1: her thoughts on the big themes of AFM on Saturday 244 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: while she was waiting at lax to hop a flight 245 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: back to Paris. I love some ambient noise on this 246 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: podcast that demonstrates how reporters really operate in the world, 247 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: but even for me, the sound quality was too rough. 248 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: So after Elsa reacquainted herself with her son and her apartment. 249 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: She hopped on a video call with me to talk 250 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: about all that she learned and took away from her week. 251 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: Elsa Caslassi back in Paris. What were you thinking about 252 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: on the plane as you flew home to Paris after 253 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: a week at AFM. The independent film sector is struggling. 254 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: AFM always is a really interesting bell weather of where 255 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: the market is. 256 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: Of course, genre and animation are always very popular at 257 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 3: the AFM. They were also like prestige packages being sold 258 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: and these included Bad Bridgetes, the Revenge Shriller, set in 259 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 3: the nineteenth century from the filmmaker of Kneecap and starring 260 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 3: Daisy Edgar Jones and Emilia Jones, sold by Film Nation 261 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 3: and WM Independent, and there was. 262 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: A lot of buzz about it. 263 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 3: The problem with that package is that it's really expensive 264 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 3: from what buyers we're talking about, Like I heard roughly 265 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 3: ten million for the US and twenty million for international. 266 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: That's what the asking prices are. 267 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: And it's really prohibitive for most buyers right now because 268 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 3: the box office isn't great and it's really a tough market, 269 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 3: so it's difficult for independent distributors even bigger ones to 270 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: carvet that much money to buy a project. Lionsgate was 271 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,239 Speaker 3: selling Mel Gibson's two part feature There Is a Resurrection 272 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: of the Christ, which drew some interest. 273 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: And you had a great scoop about a new project 274 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: from Mark Rufflow. 275 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 3: Yes, it's a French company, Playtime that launch sales and 276 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 3: it's an independent project from a French utter, bertram Bonello, 277 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: who is best known for directing Saint Laurent, you know, 278 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 3: the biopic of the French designer, and he is going 279 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 3: to make his next movie in which Mark Ruffalo is 280 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: going to play an investigator at the Vatican. Biggest biggest 281 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 3: news that broke during the AFM was not really AFM related, 282 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: but it was Lucky Chap launching an international division and 283 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: partnering up with Media One to have a London office 284 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: and a London production company. That was a big news. 285 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: Big trends going on of American companies setting offices and 286 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: production companies in Europe. 287 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: You said the attendance was really strong. Was it mostly 288 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: sellers mostly buyers? What was the mix of people? 289 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: There were two eighty five exhibitors from thirty five countries 290 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: and that's on par with last year and buyers were 291 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 3: also out in force. The US was the biggest contingent 292 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: of buyers, but you also had a lot of people 293 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: from South Korea, Germany, the UK, France and Italy. These 294 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: were the strongest representation. But you know, the Famont also 295 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 3: had a cute little French restaurant inside that, so it's 296 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: called the Lumier Lumier Restaurant. I was like, wow, the 297 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 3: French are everywhere. 298 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: They are being right across the street from Caia. They 299 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: know what market they are serving, so the Lumier makes sense. 300 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: But let me ask you, Elsa, how was the food. 301 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: The food was pretty good. 302 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 3: Actually, I give my French stamp to the food at 303 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: the Fermont. 304 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: A frenchwoman would not lie. Elsa. As always, thank you 305 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: for working hard. 306 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: My pleasure, and I hope next year the sunshine will 307 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 3: be there to make it even more enjoyable. 308 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you a bottle of Vitamin D to 309 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: make up for it. 310 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. 311 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things 312 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: we're watching for. Here comes hit Makers, Variety's annual celebration 313 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: of the music industry insiders behind the biggest songs of 314 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: the year. Our big brunch Bash will be held December 315 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: sixth in Los Angeles. This year's special honorees include Tate McCrae, 316 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: The Marias, Buddy Guy, Alex Warren, and of course, K 317 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: pop demon Hunters. HBO will unveil It's Never Over on 318 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: December fourth. The documentary chronicles the rise and tragic early 319 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: death of musician Jeff Buckley. It's part of HBO's Music 320 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: Box docuseries. It looks to be thoroughly researched. This is 321 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: some good news. Hollywood's beloved Cineramadome is one step closer 322 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: to becoming a movie palace again. On Monday Night, the 323 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: Central Hollywood This Neighborhood Council offered a unanimous vote of 324 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: support for the ArcLight Hollywood and Cineramadome's conditional use permit 325 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: to serve alcoholic beverages before we go. Congrats to Dave 326 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: Benneger and Kristin Kurowski. They've both joined Michael Ellenberg's Media 327 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: Res Production Banner as senior VPS. Bnneger will work on 328 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: scripted development. Korowski is in business and legal affairs. Bnneger 329 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: was most recently at Jacks Media. Kurowski was with MRC. 330 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. This episode was written and reported by 331 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Gene Maddis and Elsa Caslasi. 332 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: Listen to the very end here after the sign off 333 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: for an example of Elsa's dedication to her job. It's 334 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: a snippet from our first real recording at the Airport 335 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: stick Snick's hig picks. Please leave us a review at 336 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune in 337 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety. There were some. 338 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 3: Deals, you know, as I mentioned on animated film that. 339 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: Enter the plane. Oh Elsa, Elsa, I'm gonna let you go.