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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Facebook will no longer be fact

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Speaker 1: checking Donald Trump. We have an interesting show today. Ambassador

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Speaker 1: Gordon Somlin stops by to talk to us about his

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Speaker 1: time under Trump and his new book, The Envoy. Then

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Speaker 1: we're joined by Nick Turner, President and Director of the

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Speaker 1: Vera Institute, who will talk to us about crime and

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Speaker 1: the effect it had on the mid terms. And lastly

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Speaker 1: we are joined by the one and only George Conway

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Speaker 1: for our moment of Fuccory and to talk about former

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Speaker 1: President Trump's stay at a jail run for President gambit.

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Speaker 1: But first we are joined by editor in chief of

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Speaker 1: The Recount, Slade Sommer. Welcome to Fast Politics, Slade. It

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Speaker 1: is always a pleasure to be year and I cannot

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Speaker 1: wait to discuss some stories with you. We are giddy

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Speaker 1: today because we had the mid terms. The Republicans do

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Speaker 1: they even yet officially control the House? I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's official, but you're stuck at to eighteen, I think right,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't think it's official, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's as as solid as can be Yeah, they're going

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Speaker 1: to control the United States Congress by two three seats, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably three or five seats. But I will say something

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Speaker 1: we did at the recap yesterday. These things fluctuate within

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Speaker 1: each Congress. It is entirely possible that with some reservations

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Speaker 1: and some debts and you know, all that kind of

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Speaker 1: maccab you never know, special elections, there was no red wave.

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Speaker 1: Very disappointing. Turns out, shockingly, those very right wing trafogar

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Speaker 1: poles done by the guy with the mustache and the

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Speaker 1: bow tie, those were not very good pole, not very

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Speaker 1: good calls at all. It's pretty wild. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I saw that he had Peter Welch in a runoffof

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Speaker 1: like heat. You'll remember Peter Welch being the congressman from

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Speaker 1: Vermont running for the non Bernie Sanders the Pat lay

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Speaker 1: He Senate seat. It was not even close. Yeah it was.

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Speaker 1: I think he was off by thirty seven points, but

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Speaker 1: who's counting. Yeah, you don't look that that's close enough.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the whole idea is just to

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Speaker 1: get close. It's been a rough time for them. They

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Speaker 1: did not win, They did not win back the Senate.

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Speaker 1: They did not now they're going right now, the Senate

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Speaker 1: is uh. Democrats have fifty seats, Republicans have forty nine seats.

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Speaker 1: On December six, we're gonna see a run off off

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Speaker 1: in Georgia between herschel Walker heard of him, perhaps you've

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Speaker 1: heard of him, and Reverend Warnock herschel Walker. If he

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Speaker 1: gets all of his children to vote for him, it's

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Speaker 1: still not enough. Oh, I don't know. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: with the landslide, I don't think so. Yeah. And and

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Speaker 1: it looks like Mitch McConnell's not going to be spending

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Speaker 1: a bunch of money there or any money. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of private money coming in

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But this seat is necessary. And

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Speaker 1: the number of times I've been seen people on Twitter

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere saying like, well, as long as we have

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Speaker 1: the fifty, we should be fine. It's like Kirsten Cinema

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Speaker 1: is in an election year. She's now in an election cycle.

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Speaker 1: She did not come out to a single Arizona event

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Speaker 1: supporting anyone in the Democratic Party. She has been seen

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Speaker 1: cavorting with Republicans. You absolutely need that Georgia seat, like

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Speaker 1: I think anyone who's complacent about this is crazy. But

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Speaker 1: there's also even more minutia, which is that if you

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Speaker 1: have fifty one seed, two have more power on the committees.

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Speaker 1: To absolutely absolutely there's I mean, I think the number

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Speaker 1: of people who fully understand discharged position petitions and committee

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Speaker 1: gamesmanship is one. Yeah, Like, I think that's such a

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Speaker 1: low number. Suffice it to say, you want that fifty

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Speaker 1: first seed, you really do. Yeah, So let's talk about

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Speaker 1: what's happening. So we got this runoff, it's happening in

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Speaker 1: a little more a little less than a month. Then

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Speaker 1: we have this incredible contest. Now Republicans are there trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out who to blame for what happened, because

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Speaker 1: they're very into blaming. Here are the choices Trump, right,

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Speaker 1: Some of them are blaming Trump voters. A lot of

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Speaker 1: them are blaming voters not scared enough about crime. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you saw Jesse Waters saying that single women were

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Speaker 1: to blame. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we we blew that up absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You know, him saying that that single women were captured

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Speaker 1: by the Democratic Party, I think is the way that

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Speaker 1: he said it. We gotta wife those people up, amazing, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it one might think like a normal party

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Speaker 1: would stop and say, like, I wonder why people hate

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Speaker 1: our policies, but that is not what's happening here. No,

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Speaker 1: and then the last person I would put on that

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Speaker 1: list is also Mitch McConnell, taking a lot of smoke

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Speaker 1: from the MAGA wing. And you know, the funny thing

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Speaker 1: about that is like they're kind of right, but not

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Speaker 1: for the reasons that they think. Like Mitch McConnell did

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Speaker 1: everything he could to get Republican candidates across the finish line.

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Speaker 1: He actually was a bit of a savior at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day. The problem with McConnell is he's

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Speaker 1: the guy who ram through a couple of Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: justices that pushed through Doubs. But you know, he's now

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Speaker 1: in a kind of cold war with the guy who

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Speaker 1: we name. We don't say because we don't want to

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Speaker 1: get suited, no, but it rhymes with that's my spiel.

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Speaker 1: Good call. Yeah, yeah, No, I certainly will not say that.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's probably drinking the blood of twinks as

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Speaker 1: we speak. The thing I thought of, and I never

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Speaker 1: tweeted this because I didn't want to get in trouble,

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Speaker 1: but I'll say it here because you know, I do

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Speaker 1: want to get in trouble. Was that I did think

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Speaker 1: Blake Masters, who is eleven years old, looked a lot

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Speaker 1: like a blood boy. Yeah, he very much had that

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Speaker 1: like Nicholas Holt from mad Max Fury Road thing going on. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's just he is a blood bag what

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Speaker 1: guy Masters? And I'm like, like, this is the poster

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Speaker 1: boy for every kind of under I don't know how

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Speaker 1: old is he? Forty something? Yeah, like you know every

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Speaker 1: under forty kind of towing the line between maga ridiculousness

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Speaker 1: and like libertarian techno libertarian bullshit. It's quite wild. And

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Speaker 1: you know, the blame game is fantastic. I'm enjoying the

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Speaker 1: out of this. One of the really interesting speaking of

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Speaker 1: Blake Masters data points is so in Arizona, Blake Masters

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Speaker 1: did not win, and neither did everyone's favorite election denier

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Speaker 1: Filtered former local news anchor Carrie Lake, and so now

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Speaker 1: Republicans instead of being like, wow, ore swing state candidates sucked,

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Speaker 1: they're like, which I think a normal party was there,

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Speaker 1: Like you're seeing so many of these MAGA people being

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Speaker 1: like they were really talented candidates. I hope they run again, really,

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Speaker 1: I hope they run again too. Yeah, I I certainly

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Speaker 1: hope they run again. You know, it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things where, like the other Mitch McConnell thing here is

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Speaker 1: that he's very on record as saying, you know, candidate

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Speaker 1: quality matters, and everybody really told them to shut the

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Speaker 1: hell up, even liberals, you know, even you know, even

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Speaker 1: people on the left who were saying, like, you know, no,

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Speaker 1: like uh uh, like it doesn't matter. You know, everyone's

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Speaker 1: just gonna vote across party line if they have an

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Speaker 1: R next to their name. I think I said that

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Speaker 1: too on this very podcast a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, thankfully you know a

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Speaker 1: bunch of these cases, you know that that didn't play out,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the Republican civil war that is gonna

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Speaker 1: unfold over the next you know, two to three weeks, uh,

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Speaker 1: if not longer, when Trumpet to Santa's getting to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the big boy fight. Um, this is really

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Speaker 1: fun to watch. You know. We we should get into

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Speaker 1: the fact that Rick Scott another kind of blood bag

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Speaker 1: seeming gentleman, you know, Rick Spott, he's now fully entering

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Speaker 1: the challenge to McConnell race, the minority leader race, and

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Speaker 1: to bring this back to our Pat Lahey in vocation

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Speaker 1: before Pat Lahy was in all the Batman movies. I

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Speaker 1: am sitting over here with full Joker Heath Letterer Joker paint, saying,

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Speaker 1: away we go. I want to quote young Tommy Tuberville,

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Speaker 1: who is right now the dumbest member of the Senate.

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Speaker 1: That can all change in December if herschel Walker gets elected.

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Speaker 1: But Tommy u Fill supports McConnell but wants to wait

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Speaker 1: until everybody. We have everybody here, we don't know whether

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Speaker 1: herschel Walker is going to be here or not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you, like, amazing, amazing, amazing that they're all

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Speaker 1: kind of saying the same thing, which is, you would

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Speaker 1: be disrespectful to herschel Walker. And it's like herschel has

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Speaker 1: no idea what a Senate leadership election. He literally there's

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Speaker 1: no chance that herschel Walker is like, I feel disrespected

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Speaker 1: by you guys having this without me. He's probably like,

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Speaker 1: you know what happens if I win? But I put

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Speaker 1: my feet up on this desk, like there's just not

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Speaker 1: each chance that he has any idea what's going on. Well,

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Speaker 1: and also I think it's been very clear that herschel

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Speaker 1: Walker is going to vote however they tell him to vote,

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Speaker 1: which is why they want him in the first place. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's just amazing the idea that

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Speaker 1: we're gonna wait for herschel Walker decide the leadership um.

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Speaker 1: But I would also like to just point out for

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Speaker 1: a minute that you have Rick Scott, who is I mean, again,

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Speaker 1: we don't know the internal machinations of what happened. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there will be more reporting, but he's certainly from

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Speaker 1: the outside, he looks like he did a terrible job, right.

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Speaker 1: And then we have Mitch McConnell, who right, you know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't like the he doesn't like Trump World, but

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Speaker 1: he's been very effective. And now we're going to have

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Speaker 1: the two of them face off. Yeah, and it's big,

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Speaker 1: big let them fight energy. I don't really quite understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, where Rick Scott gets off thinking that he

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Speaker 1: deserves anything in this life. They lost a seat in

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Speaker 1: an election with an unpopular Democratic president. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: enough for you to be shunned from the party for

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Speaker 1: a lifetime, let alone you thinking you deserve higher leadership capabilities,

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Speaker 1: especially after it came out that you were sitting on

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Speaker 1: a yacht, you know, as a hundred something million dollars

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Speaker 1: was being squandered. I just like, whatever you think about

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, he should have

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Speaker 1: zero support, less than zero sports Brettiston ellis less than

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Speaker 1: zero time. I fully just don't really understand. Like it's

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Speaker 1: one thing for a lot of mediocre white guys like

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Speaker 1: myself to fail up privately, it's to fail up publicly,

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Speaker 1: like to be in the public eye, and fail up

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Speaker 1: is such an accomplishment. So I don't know. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: giving him less credit than he deserves. I guess the

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Speaker 1: lesson here is that Medicare fraud is easier than Republican politics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so. I think so. I mean, it's a

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Speaker 1: good gig if you can get it right exactly. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: House Republicans met on Tuesday. It seems like Republicans voted

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Speaker 1: one eighty eight to thirty one to nominate McCarthy for

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Speaker 1: speaker over Andy Biggs. So that sounds like McCarthy's got it.

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Speaker 1: McCarthy will now be the slave of Marjorie Taylor Gren

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Speaker 1: And I say this as as nonpartisanly as possible for

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Speaker 1: someone as dumb as Kevin McCarthy. Yeah, because they're Republicans.

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Speaker 1: Seemed great. I definitely want in on that's right, go on. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just think that Kevin McCarthy is not a very

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Speaker 1: smart guy, and he's not a very talented politician, and

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Speaker 1: I don't really quite understand how he's made it this

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Speaker 1: far handsome, and I do not envy him, Like his

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Speaker 1: next two years are going to be freaking hell on

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Speaker 1: Earth as he tries to placate you know, he was

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Speaker 1: not easy for Nancy Pelosi to have a very big

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Speaker 1: tent around a lot of issues and corral every single

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Speaker 1: Democrat to do what she wanted, which she did. McCarthy

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Speaker 1: only really has two wings at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: and that's like establishment rich tax cut Republicans and mega

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Speaker 1: rich tax cut Republicans, and like, I still don't know

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Speaker 1: that he's gonna be able to corral all those people.

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Speaker 1: I was looking forward to some sort of big challenge

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Speaker 1: that went completely chaotic and ended up with Tulsie Gabbert

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Speaker 1: as speaker. Well, they would like Trump as speaker, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's always I think my favorite process story

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Speaker 1: in all of politics is when you get that story

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Speaker 1: about which non sitting member of the House should be

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Speaker 1: the speaker because nobody could agree. And I saw Tulcie's

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Speaker 1: name floated and I laughed for two hours. Low steaks,

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Speaker 1: that would be the funniest political story of our lifestymes

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Speaker 1: every day. Yes, I agree, but the real speaker will

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Speaker 1: be Marjorie Taylor Gran I know, yeah, I mean, look

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Speaker 1: that the best thing that Marge ever did was figure

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Speaker 1: out how to raise a lot of money, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of airtime, and you know, she

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Speaker 1: would be relegated to the dustbin of history if you know,

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Speaker 1: if she weren't such an effective fundraiser and shameless communicator.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, he's got whatever the right word

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Speaker 1: is for the Freedom Caucus, because it's certainly not freedom.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's gonna have a real, real tough time

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Speaker 1: raining these people in Gates came out for Jordan yesterday,

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Speaker 1: who then immediately turned around. It was like no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm with McCarthy. So so some wires got

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Speaker 1: cross there. If Jordan's mounted a serious challenge, I do

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Speaker 1: think this would have gotten interested. Jordan's obviously is a

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Speaker 1: very smart guy and he wants to be I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say Obviously, Jordan is a smarter guy than he looks

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Speaker 1: and he sounds. And I do think that him knowing

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Speaker 1: that he's going to be the chair of the Judiciary

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Speaker 1: Committee is a way easier and better job than speaker.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I give him a lot of kudos

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Speaker 1: for that. But you know, I don't know, like I

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Speaker 1: think Kevin McCarthy, who has been over his head for

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Speaker 1: years is going to absolutely sink in the next six

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Speaker 1: to twelve months. Oh yeah, even a talented politician wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be able to do this, So yeah, totally. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I will say, for all Pelosi's faults, and

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Speaker 1: I do think that she has faults, I do not

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Speaker 1: think that Nancy Pelosi is nearly as infallible as a

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Speaker 1: lot of the folks who made the memes of her

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Speaker 1: clapping are. But you know, at the same time, like

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Speaker 1: she was able to corral that Democratic Caucus in a

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Speaker 1: way that I I have not seen in a really

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Speaker 1: long time. I mean, I think we're gonna look back

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Speaker 1: at the one Pelosi era as like, holy fucking shit,

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Speaker 1: how did she do that? Yeah, she's been very effective.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about Rona McDaniel Romney, when you said ron

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Speaker 1: I was like, are you gonna go Johnson to Santas

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Speaker 1: or no? McDaniel on this one. I can't believe ron

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Speaker 1: Ann got re elected. Rhonda, Rhona McDaniel, mcdonna, Romney. She

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Speaker 1: really not great, not great. Anytime you can sit there

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Speaker 1: and lose the Senate and a couple you know, lose

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Speaker 1: the mid term election in two eighteen, lose the presidential

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Speaker 1: election in lose the mid term in two and then

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Speaker 1: have the goal to reach out to people and say

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Speaker 1: please congratulate me online, which is something that she did

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Speaker 1: according to reporting. Just unbelievable, just unbelievable. Yeah, it's such

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Speaker 1: a weird time for these Republicans, and they really are.

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Speaker 1: They seem to be kind of more like you know,

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Speaker 1: they're the people who are trying to kind of like

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Speaker 1: back way slowly from Trump without him noticing, right. And

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Speaker 1: then there are the people you know you're seeing, like

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Speaker 1: since I saw Cynthia Loomis from Wyoming, right, a state

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Speaker 1: with seven people. Um, she I'm sorry. If you're a

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Speaker 1: Wyoming person, I'm sorry you have hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: people in your stadum. Sorry, but but she was sort

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Speaker 1: of backing away slowly. You're seeing some of that, but

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Speaker 1: then you're seeing at least Stephonic, a very ambitious woman,

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Speaker 1: has already indorsed Donald Trump even though he hasn't announced. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was crazy to me. I mean, especially because when

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Speaker 1: at least Stephonic got elected, she did present herself as

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Speaker 1: like a rational person who wasn't going to, you know,

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Speaker 1: go full right wing. She wanted to work in a

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Speaker 1: bipartisan way. That first impeachment she just saw the light

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Speaker 1: and went for it. And the fact that she endorsed

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Speaker 1: before it was even a reality, I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: right now. I know, just is Craven. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just craven. But you know, with Ronald McDaniel. Oh and

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Speaker 1: by the way, I should say, it's Cynthia Lummis. And

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Speaker 1: the only reason why I know that, the only love

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Speaker 1: that is because she had like they get to know

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Speaker 1: me thing in the Senate where she did a rhymes

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Speaker 1: with hummus and brought out hummus, which was an incredible

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Speaker 1: side story. And that's Cynthia because I went and did

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Speaker 1: like lumus pronunciation once and it's like her holding a

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Speaker 1: bowl of humus, and I was like, Okay, this woman

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Speaker 1: is amazing or crazy amazing. I know she's very into

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Speaker 1: crypto too. Man, good week for her, then, that's right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just unbelievable stuff. I mean, look, the one thing I'll

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Speaker 1: say is if if you want to put a bow

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Speaker 1: on this conversation, you know, the one thing I will

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Speaker 1: say is that everything we just laughed at, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything that we think is crazy, everything that we think

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Speaker 1: is off the charts absurd, will come back to bite

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Speaker 1: us in the s you know there were in six months.

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Speaker 1: The tide will turn, something will happen all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: Republicans will be in favor of it again, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna look like absolute clowns for for laughing at this.

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Speaker 1: Let's hope. I don't hope, but I agree. It's the

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Speaker 1: law of punditry is said, sooner or later this will

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Speaker 1: be used to uh ends. Gordon Sandland is the former U.

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Speaker 1: S Ambassador to the EU and author of the Envoy

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Speaker 1: Welcome Too Fast Politics. Ambassador Gordon Snlon, are you still

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Speaker 1: called ambassador or honorable? Well, I'll tell you a better story.

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Speaker 1: When I first got the title ambassador, after I took

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Speaker 1: the youth of office, the first person who addressed me

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Speaker 1: was my then wife who said, Mr Ambassador, would you

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Speaker 1: please take out the fucking garbage? It doesn't help. Right,

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Speaker 1: You're apparently accorded the title for life, but it's up

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Speaker 1: to you if you want to use it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny because it's like, you were so instrumental in

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Speaker 1: that first Trump impeachment. You were a witness, you were

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Speaker 1: really interesting part of that, and then now we've come

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Speaker 1: back to that whole story has really dominated the new cycle.

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Speaker 1: So let's first talk about that first impeachment. How do

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Speaker 1: you even get there? Well, I think this conversation is

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Speaker 1: about the new book I just released. Yes, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about that. So in the Envoy you talk about this,

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Speaker 1: but talk to us our listeners who may have not

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Speaker 1: read the book yet, about how exactly you got there. Well,

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Speaker 1: I got there because apparently someone listened in on the

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Speaker 1: conversation between President Trump and President Zelenski and decided to

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Speaker 1: take it upon him or herself to create a whistleblower

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Speaker 1: sort of framework in that they thought that the conversation

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Speaker 1: was highly inappropriate, which then ultimately resulted in the impeachment

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Speaker 1: inquiry and the impeachment without a conviction of President Trump.

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Speaker 1: My own feelings based on having been deeply involved in

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Speaker 1: the process, including the benefit of hindsight, that nothing that

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Speaker 1: happened at that time warranted an impeachment. That was a

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Speaker 1: ballot box issue. I think the issue was well aired.

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Speaker 1: The transcript of the call was made public, and the

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Speaker 1: voters could decide in whether they wanted to re elect

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Speaker 1: President Trump or not based on that and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other things that he did or didn't do. You

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Speaker 1: felt like that conversation between Trump the this is the

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Speaker 1: famous conversation was not impeachable. Explain it was not impeachable.

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Speaker 1: It was not perhaps appropriate. He was conflating two different

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Speaker 1: things in that call. What to things? Well, he was

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Speaker 1: obviously at the you know, once the call became public,

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Speaker 1: he was conflating concern about his opponent and his opponent's

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Speaker 1: son with a discussion with a foreign leader about a

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Speaker 1: meeting in the Oval office. And I didn't think it

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Speaker 1: was appropriate the way that call was handled. Was it

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Speaker 1: an impeachable offense? Was it a high crime and misdemeanor?

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Speaker 1: In my view, this is my personal view, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I'm curious, So you think it's okay for

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Speaker 1: presidents to do stuff like that. I didn't say that Molly,

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Speaker 1: I said, I wouldn't have handled it that way. I

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Speaker 1: also understand the gravity of taking a duly elected politician, Democrat, Republican, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and impeaching them every time they do something that we

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Speaker 1: think as an appropriate or we don't like. I don't

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Speaker 1: feel that way about January six. I do believe that

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Speaker 1: January six was impeachable. I did not think the Ukraine

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Speaker 1: situation was. You had already been this ambassador to your

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Speaker 1: pen union, you had been on many calls like this.

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Speaker 1: But had you ever heard a president sort of say like,

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Speaker 1: if you do this, I'll do that. I just heard

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden say it to the Saudis, please don't reduce

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Speaker 1: oil production until after the mid terms. Well, alright, Molly,

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Speaker 1: it's completely equivalent. I heard President Obama speak with President

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Speaker 1: Medvedev and say I will have more flexibility after the election.

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Speaker 1: I've heard many, many, many presidents conflate their own political

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Speaker 1: aspirations with US foreign policy. I did not think that

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Speaker 1: President Biden or President Obama should be impeached on either

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Speaker 1: of those conversations. I think they were inappropriate. However, so

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Speaker 1: you think the trying to keep gas prices down is

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Speaker 1: the same as trying to get on your opponent. I

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Speaker 1: do really. Yeah, what you're doing is you're basically taking

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Speaker 1: an asset of the United States, which is the leverage

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Speaker 1: that you have with a foreign country, and saying this

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Speaker 1: will help me in my election or in the election

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Speaker 1: of my colleagues. If you artificially do something differently than

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Speaker 1: you normally would do for my benefit, and then after

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Speaker 1: the election transpires, then do what you have to do. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it's equivalent. I can't believe you don't see it that way. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I also believe that Opek is price fixing schemes,

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Speaker 1: so I don't think that lowering gas prices. I don't

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Speaker 1: disagree with you that he wasn't lowering gas prices, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying to make a case for lowering gas

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Speaker 1: prices when Americans were suffering at the pump. It may

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Speaker 1: eventually benefit Biden, though it may not. Write. We saw

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Speaker 1: the voters didn't really care about gas prices in this election,

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Speaker 1: and they certainly could have, and most predictions where they

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Speaker 1: would have. Let's get back to the real point here,

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Speaker 1: which is when does one use impeachment in the House

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Speaker 1: and then a conviction in the Senate to deal with

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Speaker 1: polite call disagreements or even disagreements of propriety versus what

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Speaker 1: I think the Framers wanted impeachment used for which was

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Speaker 1: a high crime and misdemeanor. You can shoehorn almost anything

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Speaker 1: into that if you wish. I really like settling these

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Speaker 1: things at the ballot box. I don't think when January

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Speaker 1: six occurred and we didn't properly turn the keys over

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Speaker 1: to Biden and the election was questioned when it was

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Speaker 1: clear that the election. Even though yes, I think there

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Speaker 1: was some election fraud, I think Biden was the dually

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Speaker 1: elected president. I don't think whatever election fraud occurred rose

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Speaker 1: to a level that changed the outcome of the election.

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Speaker 1: And I think the insurrection and violence at the Capitol,

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Speaker 1: the treatment of the vice president were despicable, and I

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Speaker 1: do think that was an impeachable offense. I just want

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Speaker 1: to get back because you have a really interesting story

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. You have Jewish parents, you

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Speaker 1: grew up in Washington State, very ambitious. Remind me of

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Speaker 1: a lot of people I know in my life. Donor

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Speaker 1: to Jeb Bush, I know a lot of people like that,

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Speaker 1: to giving money, getting in a bassadorship. I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of friends who've had that experience. Somehow during this

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Speaker 1: process you went MAGA or you went along with MAGA,

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Speaker 1: And so I'm curious, like, how does that happen? No, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no no. First of all, my first political donation

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Speaker 1: was to Senator Henry Jackson, a Democrat. I served under

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Speaker 1: Governor Ted Kolanowski for two terms as the chairman of

424
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: his Video and Film office, a Democrat. No, I'm making

425
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: a case that you are that you come from a

426
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: very middle of the road Republican party. I come from

427
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: a centrist place. My candidates were George Bush forty three,

428
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: John McCain, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, and then finally the

429
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: one that got elected at a time where I was

430
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: able to serve because I was not able to serve

431
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: as an ambassador when George Bush was president it was

432
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: too soon in my career. It happened to be Donald Trump.

433
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was the Republican elected president. And if you're

434
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 1: gonna get an ambassadorship, you don't say no, you take,

435
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, because you never you never know when it's

436
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: going to come along again. Was I a member of

437
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: the MAGA movement. I was never a member of the

438
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: mega movement. I don't even own a mega hat. Well,

439
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: that's probably good. An ambassadorship is amazing. I mean, it's

440
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: just an incredible opportunity. But I'm curious to know where

441
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: you like. But I have to do it with this

442
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: president where you like? I can't, you know, I mean

443
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: Jeb Bush was not a Trump fan. Well, let me

444
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: tell you something. The more I got into the job,

445
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: and the more I understood where we were visa v

446
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: the EU and I understood the specifics of what I

447
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: had to do, I supported a great deal of President

448
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: Trump's policies. I continue to support President Trump's policies like what,

449
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the list is endless. Just to be clear,

450
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: what I don't support, and I've said this publicly, is

451
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: I don't support President Trump being the nominee. I think

452
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: those policies can be ably carried forward by one of

453
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: the six or seven or eight candidates that are out

454
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: there on the Republican side, who I think are all

455
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: qualified to be president and could hit the ground running,

456
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: many of whom would use those policies. But what about like,

457
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: I mean, like, for example, you're the ambassador to the

458
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: European Union for a president who hate NATO. He doesn't

459
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: hate NATO. I mean, I can find a bunch of

460
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: things he said about NATO. He does not like NATO.

461
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't you find that kind of crazy? Do

462
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: you want to tell me what he likes or do

463
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: you want me to tell you my experience. I want

464
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: you to tell me your experience. My experience was that

465
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: he correctly observed that we were picking up the lion's

466
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: share of the bill, allowing the other NATO members to skate.

467
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: And he was the first president, all the presidents brought

468
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: this up quietly and privately. He was the first president

469
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: to say, this is bullshit. We're here, we're your friends,

470
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: were your allies, Do your part, write your checks, join

471
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: us in defending yourself. And frankly, even the Secretary General

472
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: of NATO told me in a quiet moment, best deuced

473
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: collector we've ever had, because he publicly prodded, particularly the Germans,

474
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: who were terrible on this, to step up and do

475
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: their part. But then what about like Trump discusses pulling

476
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: us from NATO, Like, I mean, you think he was

477
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: just joking, I mean, what do you think that was? No?

478
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: I think he was I think he was doing what

479
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: any negotiator does in any negotiation, and that is something

480
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: again that we're not used to seeing in a politician.

481
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: It's very counterintuitive and it's very contrariant. He was saying, Look,

482
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: I have to find points of leverage in order to

483
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: get people to do things that are in the United

484
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: States interest. And everyone does that. And the way I

485
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: do that is by threatening to pull up my marbles

486
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: and go home. Was he ever really going to do that? No,

487
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: I don't think he was, but I'll tell you it

488
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: had the intended effect on those sort of recalcitrant members

489
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: of NATO who are getting by with murder frankly for

490
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: the last twenty years in terms of their payment history.

491
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: So your feeling is that Trump was doing three dimensional chess. Really,

492
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: that's a bold, bold statement. I'm curious, then, like Trump's

493
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: relationship with and you've talked about this and you've written

494
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: about this, Rudy Giuliani, does that fall into the three

495
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: dimensional chess mill? You? No, thanks for the mill? You

496
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: I like that. I'm fancy You're fancy. No. No, Rudy

497
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: Giuliani was brought into this Ukraine thing over the strenuous

498
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: objections not only of me but of Ambassador Kurt Volker

499
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: of Secretary Perry. We thought that Rudy Giuliani had no

500
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: business being involved in this at all, but Trump insistent

501
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: he's the president, and our choices were very simple. We

502
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: had gone to the inauguration of Zelensky, We spent a

503
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: lot of time with Zelensky, and we thought Zelenski was

504
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: really someone that the United States could do business with.

505
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: And we were very disappointed that Trump sort of dismissed

506
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: it off hand and said, I don't want to deal

507
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: with this. Talk to Rudy. And we all looked at

508
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: each other and said, what did Rudy have to do

509
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: with this? He's your lawyer, He's not a member of

510
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Unfortunately, Rudy was involved and he shouldn't

511
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: have been. Did you try to ever talk to Rudy

512
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: and what was it like? Well, I don't know Rudy.

513
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: There was this There was these stories going around that

514
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: Rude body and I were off cooking up deals or

515
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: this or that. I never even met Rudy until August

516
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: of that year, long after we had met with President Trump,

517
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: and I only met him by text. How are his

518
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: text I mean, he's like famous for calling journalists, and

519
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: you know, you've been very frank about a lot of things.

520
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: What was your hot take on Rudy. I don't think

521
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: Rudy was effective in what we were trying to do,

522
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: which was simply to get an Oval Office meeting for

523
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: Zelenski with Trump without any preconditions. But Rudy went to Ukraine, right,

524
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: Rudy was doing all kinds of things that we were

525
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: not aware of. Rudy was intersecting his work for Trump

526
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: as Trump's lawyer, his own private business, and god knows

527
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: what else. That was the problem with having anyone like

528
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: a Rudy involved in a serious diplomatic initiative. You're very generous,

529
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: as I think, well you should be with a lot

530
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: of these career public servants in the Foreign service, and

531
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: one of the things we saw after the impeachment was

532
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 1: at a bunch of them really got the wrong end

533
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: of Trump is um? I mean, how do you swear

534
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: that like a Marie Ivanovitch or I mean, you know,

535
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: some of them went on to be more political, others

536
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: did not. What was your take on that? Well, again,

537
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: all I can speak to is my own personal experience

538
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: with any of these people. I'm not going to comment

539
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: on news reports are on third party views. No, but

540
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean you liked Maria Ivanovitch. You thought she was

541
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: very talented, and then her career ended. No, I said,

542
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: both in my testimony and in my book, I dealt

543
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: with her on a limited basis. I went to Odessa

544
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen. She was the sitting ambassador at

545
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: the time, and she had a role to play. She

546
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: was just great. She was hospitable. She gave us some

547
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: good insight as to poor Ashenko, who was the sitting

548
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: president at the time. I spent some time with Porschenko.

549
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: She called me a couple of times after I after

550
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: that trip, uh, and my dealings with her were fine.

551
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: They were very professional. She wasn't a friend. I didn't

552
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: like her. I didn't dislike her. I mean, she was fine, right,

553
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: But how do you square that with that she sort

554
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: of had her career smushed by Trump? Is um? I

555
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: can tell you that in the transcript if you read

556
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: the transcript of the call that Trump made was Zelensky.

557
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: Zelensky wasn't very happy with her and told Trump that, yeah,

558
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: but tit doesn't make the rules. Well, Molly, Molly, Molly, Molly,

559
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: come on, you're smarter than that. You have the leader

560
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: of a country telling the President of the United States,

561
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: I don't think your ambassador that you've put here is

562
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: very effective. That's gonna resonate with the President of the

563
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: United States, and he has the prerogative, just as Joe

564
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: Biden does right now, to say I'm gonna make a

565
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: change and put someone there that that's going to be

566
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: more effective in representing my interests. Again, I'm not suggesting

567
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: that Maria Ivanovitch did anything wrong, but Trump certainly has

568
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: the right to do that. So do you think Trump

569
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: fired her because of that? Because that's the inference you're making. No,

570
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: I don't know why Trump fired her. But it's interesting

571
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: that when you become an ambassador, just under just remember this,

572
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,479
Speaker 1: When you become an ambassador, you have to pass what's

573
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: called a Grammont. Do you know what that is? No,

574
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: tell us. When you're nominated your host your country. In

575
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: this case, the United States sends a letter to the

576
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: host country saying we are thinking of nominating Molly john

577
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: Fast to be the ambassador of x France. That's a

578
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: really good one. Yeah, yeah, I know, because you want

579
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: to sit in equiscent, I got it. I mean, no,

580
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: it's just a very good ambassadorship. And you know it's

581
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: or Italy. I'll take Italy. It's a great ambassadorship. So

582
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: the letter goes to the President of France, the head

583
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: of state, not the head of government, the head of state,

584
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: and they take anywhere from one to four weeks to respond,

585
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: and they can say we decline this person, and they

586
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: don't have to give a reason. They generally don't. They

587
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: generally don't. They generally accept whoever is put forth, or

588
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: we can accept them. And then once they've been accepted,

589
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: then that person goes through all the vetting that the

590
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: US government does, the Senate confirmation, the security clearance, all

591
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: that stuff. If they don't even get to square one

592
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: with their host country, their name is withdrawn. So clearly,

593
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: had Marie Ivanovich is named been put forth to Zelenski,

594
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: she was already the ambassador, so Zelensky really, you know,

595
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with this issue. But had she

596
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: been a new ambassador and had her name been put forth,

597
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: based on what Zelensky said on that call, he may

598
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: very well have rejected her before Trump had a chance

599
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: to fire her. And again I'm speculating, who knows you

600
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: are speculating. This was very interesting. Tell me one last thing.

601
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: Do you think, now that we're ensconced in this situation

602
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: in Ukraine, how do you think this is going to

603
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: play out? Well, I'll tell you. Boris Johnson just wrote

604
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: a terrific op ed in the Wall Street Journal. His

605
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: op ed argues, and this is where I'm fully supportive

606
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: of the Biden agenda in this case, which is to

607
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: put the pedal down and end this war. We need

608
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: to give the Ukrainians full support, our allies need to

609
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: step up, and the war needs to end. There is

610
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: no negotiated end, as Boris Johnson argues, and I agree

611
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: with him completely. There is only a negotiated end when

612
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: there's a military end, and the only military end is

613
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: the eradication of the Russians that don't belong there from Ukraine.

614
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: So I agree with what President Biden is doing right now.

615
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: I wish he would do more, and I wish he

616
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: would do it more intensely, because that's what's protracting this conflict.

617
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: But he is on the right track, Thank you so much.

618
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: Nick Turner is president and Director of the Vera Institute

619
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: as well as head of VERRA Action Welcome to Fast Politics.

620
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: Nick Turner, Thank you. I could not be more excited

621
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: to be here. So first, Nick, I need you to

622
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: tell us what VERA is and what it does. So

623
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: the VERA Institute of Justice is a national organization works

624
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: to end over criminalization, so reduce the rests of people

625
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: in this country and then to reduce mass incarceration. And

626
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: we work with impacted communities all around the country and

627
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: leaders of government who are committed to making the same

628
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: kinds of changes that we're seeking to make. This is

629
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: like the absolutely the worst thing I've ever heard. There

630
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: used to be a ban on PELL grants for incarcerated students.

631
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: There did explain to us what PELL grants are and

632
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 1: how this works. So PELL grants are are federal financial

633
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: aid for UM for students in in need, so for

634
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: low income students. And back in Congress past bill that's

635
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: referred to us, I'm bill that eliminated the use of

636
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: PELL grants for incarcerated students. And what that did is

637
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: that essentially ended all of the revenue streams that were

638
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: necessary for colleges to run programs in prison. So like,

639
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: if you do that before and after, like right up

640
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: until that moment, they're about seven hundred programs in college

641
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: programs in prison, and then there were only eight after

642
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: that action took place. So back in December, Vera with

643
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: a broad coalition, actually worked to put those PELL grants

644
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: back in place and got Congress to allow them. And

645
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: so we're right now on the process of getting colleges

646
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: and prisons ready. It's actually in forty eight different states

647
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: around the country. There two hundred three colleges that are

648
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: already serving students, and then that number is going to

649
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: really grow once the PELL grants turn on in full

650
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: in July three. So that's a great example of the

651
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: kind of work that we do. So so important because

652
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: we have a large number of incarcerated people and they're

653
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: just you know, this is an opportunity for them to

654
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: get back into the world. It's an incredible thing. I mean,

655
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: it's a it's like the kind of smart, common sense

656
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: bipartisan justice reform that you know that we're seeing all

657
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: around the country where it works well for people who

658
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: have paid their dues to society. They're ready to come

659
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: back to their families, to earn an income, to get

660
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: a job. And what we've seen is that the you know,

661
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: the the mere investment of PELL grants to give these

662
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: to give incarcerated students a chance, increases their opportunities, you know,

663
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: to get a job, to have a higher income. It

664
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: reduces sas recidivism exactly like, so they you know, and

665
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: and helps them to you know, be the kind of

666
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: role models that they want to be for their for

667
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: their kids, and to reduce the likelihood of their kids

668
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: going into prison. So it's like a win win, win,

669
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: win win, and just the kind of thing that we

670
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: need to see in the justice system. So one of

671
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: the things that Fox News spent a lot of time

672
00:40:53,400 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: talking about this election cycle was crime and how crime crime, crime, crime, crime.

673
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: There's even a video who people screaming crime. I don't know,

674
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: I believe it right again, I don't know why what

675
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: explained us how Democrats? Because it does seem to me

676
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: like everything they're thinking about is just explain to me

677
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: what is happening here? Yeah, you know, I mean what

678
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: you observed is is right. And there are these you

679
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: know here in New York where you and I are,

680
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean the Republican candidate, you know, Zelden. I remember

681
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: seeing ads on TV of just these montages of security

682
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: camera videos showing violent acts taking place. He obviously ran

683
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: on you know, tough on crime platform and said that

684
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: hocol was really soft on crime. But the but the

685
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: point that you made about Fox News and sort of

686
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: the media infrastructure of the right is totally true. And

687
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: what we saw in Republican campaigns, I think Republicans spent

688
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: more money on crime ads, like it was over a

689
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: hundred fifty million dollars then they spent on you know,

690
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: the Democrats are messing up the economy ads, which I

691
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: think they spent around a hundred dollars and a hundred million.

692
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: And the reason that that happens is that people were

693
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: worried about safety and security. Crime has risen in the

694
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: past two years, and it's a way to sort of

695
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 1: like tap into what I describe as like the lizard

696
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: brain of people like you. People are fearful, so like

697
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: tap right into that. That's been an old political ploy

698
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: for years and years and years. And you you probably

699
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: remember this, but goes back to Willie Horton. And it's

700
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: not assume I'm many older than I am, but yes,

701
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: I do remember, yes, and never ever yes, yes, But

702
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: I think that's a good point. Let's like deep down

703
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: dive on this, like Republicans do feel like and we

704
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: see in the mainstream media a lot like Republicans have

705
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: the lock on crime people want, But what what is

706
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: the Republican plan on crime? That's a great question. And

707
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: and you would think with the kind of spending and

708
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: the push that the Republicans made all of the what

709
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: I will say is sort of inaccurate and inflammatory direct

710
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: in the you know, in the campaigns that they would

711
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: in fact have a lock. But one of the things

712
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: that we saw in the camp post election was actually

713
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't a referendum in favor of the Republicans. Voters

714
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: pretty much said across the country as we want something different.

715
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: Yes we want safety, and safety is important for all

716
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: of us, and it doesn't really matter what the color

717
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: of our skin is or like where we live. We're

718
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: concerned about that, but we don't believe in the zero

719
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: sum game that you're peddling, because basically what the Republicans

720
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: peddled in the election was Democrats aren't keeping you safe.

721
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: You know, we need to be tough on crime, we

722
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: need to lock people up. The problem is all of

723
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: these reforms that Democrats have put into place, whether it's

724
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: bail reform or you know, progressive prosecutors around the country

725
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: and we're gonna and we're gonna toughen things up. But

726
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: but people generally didn't didn't buy into that. You know,

727
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: I could give you a few examples, but I think

728
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: the really important thing to note is that on some level,

729
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: what the campaign argument was was you want safety, you

730
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: can't have justice. And what we know the American people

731
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: want is we want safety, but we believe we can

732
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: have justice too, and we demand it. So there can

733
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: if I can, just you know, allow me to sort

734
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: of nerd out here a little bit. Yeah, please, that's

735
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,959
Speaker 1: what we do here. Verra Action did an exit poll

736
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: and it showed that sixty percent of voters of actual

737
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: voters said that crime was one of their top issues.

738
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: But another really important poll that came out also showed

739
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: that sevent of likely voters thought it was really important

740
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: to reduce jail and and and prison populations and supported

741
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: justice reform, and that included a high percentage of Republicans

742
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: and independence. So what people are calling for, what voters

743
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: are calling for, is not this lock them all up.

744
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: We feel unsafe, but we feel unsafe, But what we

745
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: want our on a solutions. We don't want to go

746
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: back to the old police jail's prisons are the thing

747
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: that keeps us safe because we don't believe in it,

748
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: right well, And it is also I mean, it's interesting

749
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: to see this because we here, we are in this

750
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: country where a lot of Americans, and I mean, even

751
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: like the don or class, which tends to be very

752
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: slow in certain ways, has decided that like mass incarceration

753
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: doesn't serve anyone, right right, I mean, and you know

754
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: you're seeing like the Koch brothers are you know, so

755
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's also i mean, besides that, it's

756
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: also very expensive. It's like not a great thing to

757
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: do to people, and it doesn't help them, it doesn't

758
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: rehabilitate them, and it's also very expensive. So I'm curious

759
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,479
Speaker 1: to know, like, what do you think the Democratic Party

760
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: should be doing in order to message crime better? That

761
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: is such an important question. I'm really one of the

762
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: reasons why the why we saw Republicans investing so heavily

763
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: and using this, you know, the inflammatory rhetoric and putting

764
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: all of this money into making Democrats look soft, is

765
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: that when you look at voters as a general matter,

766
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: voters tend to trust historically Republicans more than they have

767
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: trusted Democrats. So the Republicans have preyed upon that sort

768
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: of soft label. What we need from Democrats, and this

769
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: is really important, We need it from democrats, We need

770
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: it from anyone who believes in justice and fairness and

771
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: wants to advance reform is a really solution based response

772
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: to people's concerns about crime and safety. And by that,

773
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, what I mean is that it's a mistake

774
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: to be silent about it. You know, what we saw

775
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: some candidates do. Republicans would attack them and then they

776
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: would quickly deflect and talk about something else. Let's talk

777
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: about January six. And so what that told voters is like, hey, like,

778
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: this is a kitchen table thing. I'm nervous about this,

779
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: and I don't hear you addressing it. So the first

780
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: thing that I think is really important for Democrats to

781
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: do is to address people safety and concern issues and say, yes,

782
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: I hear you. Everyone has a right to be safe

783
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: and secure, and we have the solutions. What we don't have,

784
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: what we're not interested in doing is is applying scare

785
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: tactics and uh, you know, and hyperbole. But hear what

786
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: the solutions are, you know, and there are strategies that

787
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: really the work to deliver safety. That to invest in

788
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, UH, mental health specialists to handle nine one

789
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: one calls when someone is having a breakdown, UM, you know,

790
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: rather than sending the cops. To invest in uh something

791
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: called restorative justice, which victims appreciate, UM. And to invest

792
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: in re entry programs so that when people are coming

793
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: out of prison they are given the kinds of supports

794
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: that they need to be successful and to and to

795
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 1: not as to you know, as you said earlier, like

796
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: to recitivate. Democrats have to have to address that safety issue.

797
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: I think we have been a little hesitant to do. So.

798
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: It's funny because I'm thinking a lot about Val Demming's

799
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: who I've had on this podcast in a number of times,

800
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: and who was a police chief and a member of

801
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: Congress and married to a mayor of Tampa, Florida, and

802
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: he was a policeman too. She is as pro police

803
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: as you can get. And her message was like, there

804
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: are some places that you shouldn't send the police, right

805
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: like that you need to, you know, when with the

806
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: mental health stuff, and we've seen think of all the

807
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: videos we've seen of the police killing mentally ill people, right, like,

808
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: those are not the times to call the police. And

809
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: then there are times to call you know, like there

810
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: there's a place for social workers in crime, yeah, or

811
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: quote unquote crime. That's exactly right. Look, I mean there's

812
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: this fact. I mean, if you look at arrest that

813
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: happened in the country, that around ten million arrests every year,

814
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: and if you break them down, five percent of them

815
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: or for violent crimes, yes, the police are the appropriate

816
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: responders for that. But then if you like eight of

817
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: those arrests are for conduct that relates to poverty or

818
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: mental illness, or homelessness or substance use. And so just

819
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: the point that you're making, and that you know, Demmings made,

820
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: that we have available to us other responders mental health specialists,

821
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: homeless you know, and housing specialists for homeless people who

822
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: might be in the you know, in the subway here

823
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: in New York or elsewhere, or substance use specialists, and

824
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: to use not only not just rely as we have

825
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: in this country on sort of traditional law enforcement, but

826
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: to rely on the public health system to provide some

827
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: of the responses that ultimately keep the community safe. I

828
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: think there's one, you know, one of the things that

829
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: I think is really hard for Democrats. And I understand this,

830
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: and I understand it also as a as a reformer,

831
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: and why we've sometimes it's been hard for us when

832
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: we see UH people or when people talk about crime

833
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: and safety. We don't want to engage the conversation so

834
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: much because public safety has always been used as the

835
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: argument like public safety for whom it's always been the

836
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: argument for more police, more jails, and more prisons. But

837
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: the important thing for us in the reform community and

838
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: for anyone who supports justice to recognize is that our

839
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: communities demand safety just as much as so. I'm black

840
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: and Filipino, and I remember conversations with my uncle uncle Clyde,

841
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: you know here in Brooklyn, who I would talk a

842
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: lot about the justice reform to this organization that my

843
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: organization VERA was doing, and he was and he would

844
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 1: always ask about, well, is that going to keep me safe?

845
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: Am I gonna be safe walking on the sidewalker or

846
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: in the subways? And I didn't do a good job

847
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: of answering that initially, and I and I recognize that

848
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: that's really that that's a fundamentally important thing for us

849
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: to to answer. But what I also know about my

850
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: uncle Clyde is that he didn't believe in the same

851
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: old solutions of stop and frisk or you know, or

852
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: or more jail in prison. He just he wanted he

853
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: wanted a solution. And black communities in this country, right

854
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: do want a solution for crime, do want a solution.

855
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: But there's been hesitance to acknowledge that. Yeah, And I

856
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: think that that is, you know, we have no mental

857
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: health system for these people, so it's like jail is

858
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: where they go. And I think that that it's such

859
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: an interesting time in American life because like, these are

860
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: people who don't I mean, like the person who is

861
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: sitting on my you know, block is not a criminal,

862
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 1: but they do need you know, they're they're probably in

863
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: need because it's very cold out, you know. And that's

864
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: the thing we don't have, you know, a great way

865
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: to look at this problem that's both compassionate and we

866
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: we haven't traditionally. But you know, I have to say

867
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: that I I think we despite everything that we saw

868
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: in the election and all the at the video that

869
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: you talked about, I think that that we are making

870
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: progress and and so you know, I so you know,

871
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: I see all around the country their municipalities that are

872
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: that are starting to respond in the exact way that

873
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: you just mentioned. In Denver, in Albuquerque, here in New York,

874
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: in West Hollywood, and lots of different places are hiring

875
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: mental health specialists, safety ambassadors, so not necessarily relying on

876
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 1: cops who are getting out of their car with side

877
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: arms to address a matter that is really not a

878
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: criminal matter. It's a different kind of need. So we're

879
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: seeing that in many, many places around the country. And

880
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: we're seeing, like we just talked about when we were

881
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 1: discussing pal you know, forty eight states around the country

882
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: that are saying, look, we've got to do something smart here.

883
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: People have paid their debt and we want to help

884
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: prepare them to succeed. A college education is hugely important

885
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: force getting gaining employment now, and so so the rhetoric

886
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 1: is something, but the American people want something different. And

887
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: all around the country we're seeing a pretty profound movement

888
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 1: to get the kind of stuff done that we've been

889
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: talking about. And I'm and I'm really hopeful about that.

890
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us. This

891
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: was so interesting and I'm really glad that we go

892
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 1: to chat about this. Thank you, Molly. I'm really grateful

893
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: to be able to chat with you about it too.

894
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: George Conway, what h I'm sorry, I just woke up.

895
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: Something put me, something put me to sleep. George is

896
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: here for our special post Trump announcement recat. I need

897
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: some coffee. Whoa that was? That was? That was me?

898
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: He made Jed Bush look like a nuclear power plant.

899
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: That was so low energy. I mean, do you think

900
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: MAGA now stands for make America groggy again? He was

901
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: teleprompter Trump and it was that sleepy not you know,

902
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: he's bored when he can't say something to I'm reading

903
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: this and can't say mean things about Ron the sanctimonious.

904
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: And also the crowd wasn't the typical queue and on

905
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: Crazy's it was so low energy as well. The guy

906
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: who wears the wall suit was there. You know that's

907
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: the only wall he ever really Bill, Yeah, that guy

908
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: when he is an incredible mustache. I was there, right,

909
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: Pillow guy was there. Ivanka was not. Maybe this was

910
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: just a pillow advertisement. That's it. That makes now, it

911
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: makes sense. The top lines that I saw and CNN

912
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: did twenty five minutes, and they got so bored with

913
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: it they you know, they went back. They cut it off.

914
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: Even Fox I heard cut it off for five minutes. Yeah, no,

915
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 1: you gotta make it's short and sweet and punchy. And CNN,

916
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: I mean, CNN did have Daniel Dale onto fact check.

917
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: Daniel Dale. Man, he's he's he's back in business, exactly,

918
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: back in but we saw him on the strategic Daniel

919
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: Dale was making excuses for Trumps is there are not

920
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 1: as many lies as his normal speech because he's reading

921
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: off teleprompter. But there's still a lot of lies, and

922
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: let me go through them. But that thing that's interesting

923
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: about Trump, even at his best behaved, he's still like

924
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: stuck on all of these ninety nineties things. So he

925
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: complained about how the American people don't spend enough time

926
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: worrying about nukes, which I think we do, and then

927
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: he said that Biden emptied the strategical petroleum research is

928
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: essentially he actually did as well, It's actually true that

929
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: the strategic petroleums went down apparently during Trump's time in office.

930
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: And then, I mean, it feels like silly to fact

931
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: check him because because he's it's like what you expect

932
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: me to actually say say accurate things. We don't. Although

933
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: he said the missile struck fifty miles inside Poland, it's like, no,

934
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: four miles, everybody said four miles. You know, somebody should

935
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: just send him the classified information so that you will

936
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 1: have the accurate information. Well, I mean, I think either

937
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: way you send him the classified information, you send him

938
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: the unclassified information. Either way he's going to have it wrong.

939
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I had like a little bit of

940
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: an existential crisis while I was watching it, because I

941
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: was like, we've been fucking doing this since two thousand

942
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: and fifteen, Like those hours of my life I will

943
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: never get back. I'm going through Twitter now seeing quotes

944
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: from parts of the speech that I didn't see because

945
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: CNN cut away and I fell asleep. Um, Maggie Haberman

946
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: saying that he said I'm a victim. I'm such a

947
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: victim that one. Yeah, I didn't see that, but yeah,

948
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: I mean I think that it does feel like, I mean,

949
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: it's just the same thing he always does. Now. The

950
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: question is, I think the million dollar question for all

951
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: of us is like, will the Republicans come to their

952
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: senses this time? Or will they just you know, they

953
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: bought the ticket. Are they going to take the ride? Yeah, yes, ma'am.

954
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: What do you think I think that he's going to

955
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: win the nomination because I don't think there's anybody gonna

956
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: be taking it away from him. I don't think the

957
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: Santis is going to run. I don't think Pence can

958
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: do it. You know, I just think he's going to

959
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: walk to the nomination even if he gets indicted. The

960
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: party is going to vote for him no matter what.

961
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: And that's more than enough to win, particularly in a

962
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: in a multi party, multi candidate race, and so and

963
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: then he just loses again and then finally that does it.

964
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: But it's not going He's not going to lose quietly.

965
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: He is going to, you know, if he gets indicted,

966
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: he is going to incite problems. And he's even said

967
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: he's going to do that. I mean, he said there

968
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: will be big problems if I'm ever invited. He's basically

969
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: said that in substance. I mean, he's basically we're gonna

970
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to basically it's going to be

971
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: a call to arms again. And he has no compunction

972
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: about causing violence as we've seen, so that's not really,

973
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: I'm not really hopeful of you know, I don't think

974
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: he's gonna win, but I think we're we're in for

975
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: a rough, you know, for a rough two years. That's

976
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

977
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: and Friday to your the best minds in politics makes

978
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

979
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

980
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.