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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zaren.

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Speaker 3: Oh Hey, hey, sorry, I was just napping on my bike.

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Speaker 2: That's not a bike, that's the intern.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Mickey, Hey, what's up? Mickey's kind of cool, it's.

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Speaker 2: So warm, temporary intern.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Mickey rud dude, Yeah, I like it. Yeah, your buddy, huh.

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Speaker 2: I borrowed a dog for the week, and I'm feeling

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Speaker 2: good about it.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 2: You know, I missed my dog.

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Speaker 3: Emotional support, a.

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Speaker 2: Little dog sitting, and I just I have to have

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Speaker 2: them with me all the time.

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Speaker 3: I get it. I totally get it.

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Speaker 2: Those are the rules.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, mama, Mama makes rules. Why do you have all

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Speaker 3: the geese?

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Speaker 4: Do mask?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: I saw it on the back and I was like,

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Speaker 3: those are Elizabeths, totally mine.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what's articulars?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yes. Do you ever heard of people say, oh,

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Speaker 3: you only use ten percent of your brain? Yeah, right, totally.

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Speaker 3: That's total nonsense, right right, so I figure you know that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's another one. W people say like, oh, you're ninety

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Speaker 3: percent bacteria.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard that. I've heard like your ninety percent

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Speaker 2: water or something.

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Speaker 3: Roughly seventies in the high sixties, yes, but uh, sometimes people.

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Speaker 2: Say ninety percent bacteria. Yeah, that's also wrong, I would say,

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Speaker 2: so who says that.

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Speaker 3: It was a common science pop side thing? Right? So

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Speaker 3: apparently if you count up all the bacterial cells, there's

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Speaker 3: been a recent rather scientific and I will say just scientific.

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Speaker 3: I'm putting the rather on there because I'm sure it'll

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Speaker 3: be wrong later. Yeah, but you know, anyway, fifty six percent,

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Speaker 3: that's the new estimate. You, Elizabeth, are fifty six percent bacteria?

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Speaker 2: Oh, me Zarin, fifty six percent bacteria, Dave forty six.

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Speaker 3: No, he's fifty seven. He's got an extra one for.

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Speaker 2: Fifty eighty six.

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Speaker 3: Now, by by by weight, you know, like not by volume,

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Speaker 3: but by weight, you would be ninety nine point seven

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Speaker 3: percent human cells and only zero point three percent bacterial

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Speaker 3: cells by weight, So they're not taking up a lot

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Speaker 3: of your your you know, sense of who you are,

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Speaker 3: got it? That makes still fifty six percent.

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Speaker 2: That's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, that is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: How's your moonwalking pneumonia doing? You're ready to rock this one?

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Speaker 2: Oh buddy, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll see, we'll see how it plays out.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's all I got for you, so we hit it.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what else is ridiculous? What canoeing into

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Speaker 2: the great beyond? But not really who This is ridiculous

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Speaker 2: crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous caper's heis and cons.

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Speaker 2: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I know you don't heard that.

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Speaker 2: You know. The Darwin Awards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, being dumb, Well, it's like nominating.

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Speaker 2: Charles Darwin and it's a riff on survival of the fittest.

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Speaker 5: Yea.

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Speaker 2: So the project says, quote in the spirit of Charles Darwin,

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Speaker 2: the Darwin Awards commemorate individuals who protect our gene pool

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Speaker 2: by making the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives. Darwin

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Speaker 2: Award winners eliminate themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby

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Speaker 2: improving our species chances of long term survival.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like the MacArthur Genius Awards and they

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Speaker 3: give you like a a million dollars, a half million

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Speaker 3: dollars or whatever it is. I've actually been given three

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Speaker 3: Darwin Awards and you.

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Speaker 2: Get you can't because you have to die to get them.

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Speaker 3: You don't know about my pastors. You we have to

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Speaker 3: die for a little while. I see you can come back.

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Speaker 2: Darwin. Ords are like dumb ways to die basically, and

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Speaker 2: there are some parameters.

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Speaker 3: I've done some dumb stuff. You were like, you didn't

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Speaker 3: die well.

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Speaker 2: Accidental self sterilization also qualifies for an award, so exactly

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Speaker 2: why Yeah, but it's actually you know, it's usually awarded posthumously.

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Speaker 2: The candidate is just qualified. Though if quote innocent bystanders

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Speaker 2: are killed the process the spifuse, they could have like

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Speaker 2: helped the geneop who have been some of.

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Speaker 3: The winners, who have been some of the winners.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for asking. Gary Hoy, who fell from the

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Speaker 2: twenty fourth story of the Toronto Dominion Center while trying

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Speaker 2: to demonstrate to a group of students that the windows

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Speaker 2: were unbreakable.

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Speaker 3: All the one throws himself against the glass and then

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Speaker 3: the glass goes out, and everyone's like, well, I guess

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Speaker 3: he was the wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, John teacher, dude, Like, imagine your teacher throw against

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Speaker 2: the How traumatic I shouldn't last. John alan Chow, who

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Speaker 2: on his own behalf tried to convert an isolated indigenous

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Speaker 2: group in on the North Sentinel Island to Christianity and

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Speaker 2: then they killed him recently, like the.

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Speaker 3: Last few years. He went out there and everyone's like,

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Speaker 3: don't go out there, and he's like, I'm going with Jesus.

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Speaker 3: They're like, it are coming back.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's dark stuff, dark stuff. But what would happen if

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Speaker 2: a guy whose last name was Darwin did something to

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Speaker 2: earn himself a spot.

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Speaker 3: Oh double Darwin, double Darwin.

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Speaker 2: John Darwin is the guy's name.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 2: He got in a kayak and he paddled out into

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Speaker 2: the ocean, only to never return. It's not a foolish

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Speaker 2: way to go. It's tragic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But here's the thing I want to play off a

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Speaker 2: quote from the great Eli Cash from one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite films, The Royal Tenebouce. All right, well everyone knows

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Speaker 2: John Darwin died off the waters of County Durham in England.

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Speaker 2: What this podcast presupposes is maybe he didn't. Wild Sarah,

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Speaker 2: we got ourselves a good old fashioned faked death.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So John Darwin. John Darwin is a boomer born around

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifty. He studied biology and chemistry in school, and

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three he married a woman named Anne Stevenson. Anne.

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Speaker 2: He was a science and math teacher for eighteen years,

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Speaker 2: and then he worked at a bank, and then he

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Speaker 2: became a prison officer, a CEO at I guess it's

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Speaker 2: his majesty's not her majesty's now, but at the time

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Speaker 2: it was her majesty's prison home house.

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Speaker 3: That's a strange paths ole teacher, banker, ceo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. His wife was a receptionist at a doctor's office.

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Speaker 2: Those two had another side hustle. They rented out rooms

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Speaker 2: or bedsits to people. And they had twelve houses at

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Speaker 2: one point, and so they'd rent these rooms out to people.

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Speaker 2: One of the houses was even attached to the one

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Speaker 2: that they lived in.

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Speaker 3: So basically they were running a little Airbnb.

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Speaker 2: Empire completely, but like more long.

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Speaker 3: Term Yeah, sure, I mean more dignified.

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Speaker 2: In two thousand, they bought two houses in Seaton Carew. Okay,

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Speaker 2: and that's where the trouble started.

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Speaker 3: In relation to Rod Carrow.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's the town.

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Speaker 3: Is his father, I mean, maybe pronounced that wrong. It's

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Speaker 3: Rod Carew Carew, Seaton Carew.

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Speaker 2: On lots of debt, debt, debt, debt, debt, I don't

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Speaker 2: want debt. Yeah, the couple they overextended themselves. They couldn't

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Speaker 2: keep up. They were about to start bankruptcy proceedings and

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Speaker 2: there didn't seem to be a solution. And then John

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Speaker 2: John Darwin he had ideas.

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Speaker 3: She's like, what if there was one less John Darwy.

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Speaker 2: Thursday March twenty first, two thousand and two, he figured

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Speaker 2: that was the perfect day to disappear. Okay, Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: four times during the day he calls his wife Anne

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Speaker 2: at work, and you know, she's at a receptionist job,

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Speaker 2: and one of the calls he tells her this is

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Speaker 2: it pick me up later. And so he's at work too,

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Speaker 2: at the prison.

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Speaker 3: So he's like whispering, he's calling a prison line.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So when he gets off his shift, he goes

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Speaker 2: home to Seaton Carew Seaton Carew seatan honestly, I don't

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Speaker 2: even know. So at about four point thirty in the afternoon,

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Speaker 2: he goes to a storage shed and he gets out

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Speaker 2: his red kayak called the Orca. And please note that

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Speaker 2: this is a kayak, not a canoe.

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Speaker 3: Yes and closed top.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So he takes the Orca and he heads down

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Speaker 2: to the beach in front of the house. Six o'clock

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Speaker 2: at this point, and it's dark and she was now

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Speaker 2: home from work. She meets up with him as a

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Speaker 2: race near this beach, Northgere. It's a long sandy beach.

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Speaker 2: There's like low sand dunes and beach grass and it's

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Speaker 2: at the mouth of the River Tees where it meets

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Speaker 2: the North Sea. So it's popular with bird watchers and

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Speaker 2: like the marsh land behind the beach just comes alive

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Speaker 2: with wild flowers in June and July. Yeah, it's lovely

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Speaker 2: and so it's understandable that someone would want to kayak

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Speaker 2: out in the little mini bay off your beach at night.

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Speaker 3: Let's see a photographer going for moonshots.

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Speaker 2: Who knows so Anne, she rolls up to the beach

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Speaker 2: and her bitch in Scota. She got a little scuz

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Speaker 2: skit John. He's standing there in jeans, a black jacket

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Speaker 2: and a black hat and he's got on a backpack

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Speaker 2: full of supplies. He turns away from Anne and gives

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Speaker 2: his empty kayak a little push out into the sea

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Speaker 2: and then they hop in the car and drive forty

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Speaker 2: minutes away to the Durham railway station. It's way out town,

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Speaker 2: away from many more convenience stations. He needs to get

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Speaker 2: out of the area, so he tells, Anne, when you

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Speaker 2: get home, call the prison and ask to speak to me,

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Speaker 2: just like she normally would. And that's what she did.

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Speaker 2: Like they she calls up, they say you know what

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Speaker 2: he left already. She's like oh, So she calls the

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Speaker 2: cops and she reports him missing. When everyone discovered that

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Speaker 2: the kayak or later as the press is going to

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Speaker 2: keep referring to it as a canoe, but friend, it

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Speaker 2: was a kayak. I have seen the picture. That is

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Speaker 2: not a canoe. Whatever. I am very upset. They look

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Speaker 2: and they see the kayak with a canoe is missing kayak.

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Speaker 3: I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say canoe because that's where it goes from.

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Speaker 2: It is fun canoe can ayak. So they find out

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Speaker 2: it's missing from the shed. So the rescue crews from

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Speaker 2: the police, the coast guard, they head out to the beach.

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Speaker 2: They put on their red shorts. They start running John John,

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Speaker 2: They're yelling. They go up and down the coastline and

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Speaker 2: they're out in boats. They find a single paddle on

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Speaker 2: the beach, but nothing else, and then the search gets

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Speaker 2: called off the next night, so they searched all through

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Speaker 2: the night the next day. Then they're like you know

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Speaker 2: what where was John? Where is mister d Thank you

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Speaker 2: for asking. He was hiding out in the lake district.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's a beautiful place to hide out.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful and knew where he was. He called her on

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Speaker 2: the regular to get updates. Are they still looking for me?

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Speaker 3: And then what.

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Speaker 2: Are the locals saying about all this? She's like, well,

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Speaker 2: I was still at the tea shop, and so she's

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Speaker 2: telling him, you know how people are all reacting about this.

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Speaker 2: Then the two of them, they think the coast is clear.

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Speaker 2: So she goes to Koumbria to pick him up. And

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Speaker 2: it had only been about two weeks, that's how long

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Speaker 2: he stays a way. And apparently this man's beard game

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Speaker 2: was strong, because he comes out sporting a full beard

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Speaker 2: that apparently he didn't have when he left town. Weeks. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he's wearing totally different clothes and he's doing this

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Speaker 2: whole like I'm an old man who limps and uses

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Speaker 2: a cane. Like, sure, let's say he was disguise. Yeah, choices.

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Speaker 2: So a quick trip down the motorway John's home. A

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks later, his canoe kayak, all bashed up,

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Speaker 2: washes up on a nearby beach. Oh no, And and

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Speaker 2: she's playing the distraught wife and she's like, well, my

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Speaker 2: husband's remains ever be recovered? And they're like you don't

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Speaker 2: think maybe? Okay, you jumped there. Okay, Remember how I

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Speaker 2: told you that one of the homes that the couple

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Speaker 2: rented out his bedsits was attached to their home. They

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Speaker 2: were at number three the cliff And the cliff is

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Speaker 2: the name of the street. Oh yeah, wow, number three,

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Speaker 2: the cliff.

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Speaker 3: So, and that's your address, Like you get your mail

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Speaker 3: at number three, number.

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Speaker 2: Three, the Cliff.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 2: And she's in the family home at number three, and

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Speaker 2: so is John. He'sn't the house, but like when people

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Speaker 2: would come over, he used a secret passageway to sneak

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Speaker 2: into his hiding place in number four, right next door

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Speaker 2: through a secret garden. He's like a little rat, scurrying

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Speaker 2: back and forth. Rat like he even there. There was

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Speaker 2: one of the passageway parts had wooden floorboards and they

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Speaker 2: were creaky, so he paved it over with concrete so

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Speaker 2: that it wouldn't make any noise.

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Speaker 3: That's an answer. How would have gone with carpeting?

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, he didn't just limit himself to numbers three

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Speaker 2: and four. Of the cliff. He had a disguise. Baby.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, we just limped all over town, like he

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Speaker 2: would walk down to the beach the scene of the crime.

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Speaker 2: And then he even went On April twenty second, two

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Speaker 2: thousand and two, just one month after his disappearance, he

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Speaker 2: went to the library and got himself a library card.

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Speaker 3: Why he just needed books. Yeah, I guess I couldn't

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Speaker 3: have his wife.

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Speaker 2: See you'll see why he gets it.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, I mean that's new identity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's like he's in this little fishing village.

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Speaker 3: I forgot people can.

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Speaker 2: Like seven thousand people in town.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I figured that was not going to be a

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Speaker 3: big population.

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Speaker 2: And you think that like strolling around would be a

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Speaker 2: little dicey.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking some of these people know well enough that

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Speaker 3: they could smell him, you know, like that smells like

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Speaker 3: John Darwin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know he, like you were saying,

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Speaker 2: he's working on getting this new identity. So he poked

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Speaker 2: around some graveyards and like checked out headstones. He went

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Speaker 2: through the local newspaper archives looking for a man who

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Speaker 2: was born around his birth year and died as a child.

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Speaker 3: So that wouldn't be a man, a boy, a boy child.

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Speaker 2: He's looking for a male.

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Speaker 3: You want to pick someone who doesn't didn't get a car, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, well, bingo John Jones. Okay, so you find someone

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Speaker 2: also named John. The real John Jones was born the

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Speaker 2: same year as John Darwin, but twenty five miles away

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Speaker 2: in Sunderland, and he died when he was only five

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Speaker 2: weeks old from enteritis perfect at the city's Hospital for Infectious.

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Speaker 3: Diseases an ideal candidates.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, buried nineteen fifty. Okay, So John Darwin takes the

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Speaker 2: kids information, goes to get a duplicate birth certificate. He

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Speaker 2: got a black and white picture of himself sporting that

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Speaker 2: big old beard, took it to the library for the

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Speaker 2: librarian to sign with a statement that he was a

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Speaker 2: regular customer. Yeah. Then he took all the new documents

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Speaker 2: and he went to get a passport. So that's why

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Speaker 2: he got the library card.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, got it.

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Speaker 2: The address on the passport h number three the cliff.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't as undoing though, that's just bold, that's

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Speaker 2: just access bold. A year later, April of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and three, he gets declared dead.

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Speaker 3: Okay that part.

301
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So and she takes the death certificate. She takes

302
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Speaker 2: the evidence from the police. The whole smashed up canoe

303
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Speaker 2: thing goes to the banks. She did not carry the

304
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Speaker 2: smashed up canoe with her to the bank. And at

305
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Speaker 2: some point a body washed up on the beach and

306
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Speaker 2: we know it's not John. The cops they were like, oh,

307
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Speaker 2: and it goes around town. A body's on the beach.

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Speaker 2: So they're like, okay, we gotta be really careful. Treadslight

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Speaker 2: with Anne. Of course, they identify the body is not John,

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Speaker 2: and so when they're sure of it, they go to

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Speaker 2: tell Anne, like, I know you've heard. She gives the

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Speaker 2: performance of a lifetime. Really Oh yeah, she turns it on.

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Speaker 2: She is Emmy.

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Speaker 3: Worthy, Susan, watch out, you're losing again.

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Speaker 2: She breaks into tears. She's wailing in sorrow, and you're thinking, well,

316
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Speaker 2: that's not John, right. She's like, I just wish it

317
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Speaker 2: were him so that I could finally have some closure. Barry,

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Speaker 2: I just am the not knowing.

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Speaker 3: She just seems reasonable.

320
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know who else thought John was dead?

321
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Speaker 3: John his two sons.

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Speaker 2: He had two adult sons.

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Speaker 3: They're not good actors. I don't think they can commit

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Speaker 3: to the bit.

325
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Speaker 2: They had two adult sons that were not in on it,

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Speaker 2: and she later admitted that lying to her sons was

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Speaker 2: quote something that I will live to regret for the rest.

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Speaker 3: Of my time, you think as a mother.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Anne, she uses the death certificate to claim

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Speaker 2: her husband's twenty five thousand pound life insurance policy.

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Speaker 3: Okay, there you go. He's got some fraud is.

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Speaker 2: Twenty five thousand pound teacher's pension. Okay, his fifty eight

333
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Speaker 2: thousand pound prison service pension, four thousand pounds in payout

334
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Speaker 2: from the Department of Working Pensions, and then another one

335
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Speaker 2: hundred and thirty seven thousand pounds from a Norwich Union

336
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Speaker 2: mortgage insurance policy.

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Speaker 3: She's just cashing out. She's like, let's leave this casino.

338
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she gets two hundred and forty nine k out

339
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Speaker 2: of it. So now John Darwin is John Jones. He

340
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Speaker 2: has a new identity, He's got a lot of cash.

341
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Speaker 2: What's next.

342
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Speaker 3: I hope it's we leave England and go live somewhere

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Speaker 3: nice off of this money.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's really interesting. You should mention though, let's take

345
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Speaker 2: a break. When we come back, we'll find out about that.

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Speaker 3: Where were we We were about to leave England hopefully

347
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Speaker 3: and go somewhere tropical with all this money.

348
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Speaker 2: So we're talking about John Darwin aka John Jones aka

349
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Speaker 2: Canoe Man. He doesn't have to go to work. He

350
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 2: can't leave the house that much. So like, what's the

351
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,359
Speaker 2: guy to do? He hops online? He hops online and

352
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Speaker 2: he plays interactive role playing games, one in particular called

353
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Speaker 2: Asheron's Call.

354
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 3: Oh actually I know.

355
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. He goes like deep in and according to the

356
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 2: game's website, it is quote where thousands of players and

357
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 2: having a beautiful three D fantasy world to make friends

358
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Speaker 2: and seek out perilous adventure.

359
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 3: Yes, I they call a massively multiple online role playing game.

360
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Speaker 3: And I had a front and a roommate actually who

361
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Speaker 3: played it. And he used to like going off and

362
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Speaker 3: like get like a shield or a sword or whatever

363
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Speaker 3: and then sell it to strangers.

364
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Speaker 2: On em exactly. So Anne was like, que, we made

365
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,200
Speaker 2: a ton, and says the people that played it became

366
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Speaker 2: characters in this world. They had money, they could buy

367
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Speaker 2: and sell things, they could buy and sell property, and

368
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Speaker 2: they can cast spells on one another.

369
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 3: But he also turned it into real world cash, like

370
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 3: I'll meet you at this tree and give you my store,

371
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,639
Speaker 3: and the verse is like I'll give you five hundred

372
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Speaker 3: dollars us.

373
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and things like you're saying, it turns into real world, right.

374
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: So John his character is a druid of course. And

375
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 2: then on there he interacts with this forty year old

376
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,399
Speaker 2: woman who's been married three times. Her name is Kelly

377
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 2: Steele and she lives in Kansas City, Missouri, USA. Y.

378
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:23,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

379
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 2: So they start with like on the game, and then

380
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 2: that moves to emails and then internet calls and he's

381
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 2: keeping this a secret from Ann. So they're like using

382
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,600
Speaker 2: the phone over the internet. Yeah.

383
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 3: Wow.

384
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 2: So John send money to Kelly. Oh no, and he's like,

385
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: use this money and go buy me a rundown ten

386
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 2: acre farm just outside of Kansas City, and she's like,

387
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 2: will do. Then he takes his John Jones passport and

388
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,679
Speaker 2: he flies to the States. He tells Ann, you know what,

389
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,000
Speaker 2: I just need a break from what.

390
00:18:59,160 --> 00:18:59,400
Speaker 3: Bak.

391
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,920
Speaker 2: I ended a sit and you play video games. He's like, well,

392
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: I'm also there's a possible business venture there. So it's

393
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 2: like fine, whatever, go. Things didn't go so great. He

394
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 2: got out there and the relationship immediately fell apart with Kelly,

395
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 2: so he goes back to the UK.

396
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 3: She's like, I thought it was the accent it's not

397
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 3: the excent no.

398
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 2: And she's like, oh, you're not really a druid. And

399
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 2: so then he comes back. He's like, Ann, i just

400
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 2: lost thirty k in my business venture. I'm not getting

401
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 2: it back. Yeah, because Kelly was like, get out of

402
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 2: here and I'm keeping the cash. So he goes back

403
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 2: to his room next door and he gets back online

404
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 2: and like he's kind of going stir crazy. So when

405
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: it was really cold out, he could put on his

406
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,960
Speaker 2: disguise and like limp around town.

407
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 3: Ok.

408
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's just a little fishing village, but

409
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 2: in the summer months it's crowded and like you can't

410
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: put a bunch of clothes on to hide yourself.

411
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,880
Speaker 3: Now are people talking about how his now widow has

412
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 3: got a new man on the side.

413
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 2: Well, no, they never see them together.

414
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 3: He's oh, they don't see him limping into the property.

415
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 2: He probably looms out of number four, not at us.

416
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 2: So they think he's just a weirdo. But he did

417
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 2: get recognized in two thousand and three, like a former

418
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 2: coworker of his sees him and then tells the cops

419
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 2: and then but you know, not a friend and to

420
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 2: the rescue. But they questioned her, and she's like, look,

421
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: this is a huge mistake. John has a cousin who

422
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 2: looks exactly like him, and the cops were like, oh, okay,

423
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 2: that clears it up.

424
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 3: That's fine.

425
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: Then a tenant in number four, another renter, recognizes him,

426
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 2: stops him and says, aren't you supposed to be dead?

427
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: And John just like growls at him, is like, don't

428
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 2: tell anybody. The guy keeps his mouth closed because you

429
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 2: don't want to upset your landlord.

430
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 3: I guess.

431
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, so his brushes with Discovery, they're stressing in out

432
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,399
Speaker 2: and she starts souring on the whole setup. She's just

433
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 2: not into it.

434
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 3: She can't even have her kids come around.

435
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,959
Speaker 2: She told the Sun newspaper quote, I lost all interest

436
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: in our sex life, leaving John, who never seemed to

437
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 2: stop thinking about sex, angry and frustrated. So like, they

438
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 2: need to get away, They need a change of scenery.

439
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 2: Maybe that'll help.

440
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 3: They should have gone away the first.

441
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 2: Time, I know. And they had dreamed of doing just

442
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: that when they had the fake death. So in two

443
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 2: thousand and four they moved to Cyprus, okay, and they thought, well,

444
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: you know, we'll buy some land here. Yeah, this is

445
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: what Anne said, quote, We only went for a week

446
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: and we looked at quite a few properties, but it

447
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 2: just seemed to take so long to do anything over there,

448
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 2: just like they're just not efficient.

449
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 3: Very Mediterranean in the middle of the Mediterranean.

450
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: Honey, I think you're in the wrong place. Two thousand

451
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 2: and five, John was like, hold on, I'm going to

452
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: go inspect some things. He goes to Spain and Gibraltar

453
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: and he.

454
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 3: Went over it run away for money, right, I'm.

455
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 2: Like, oh, you won't find any British people in Spain.

456
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: He goes there to check out a sixty foot catamaran

457
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: worth forty five thousand pounds. Yeah, and it was owned

458
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 2: by this this boat dealer, Robert Hopkin. And notice he

459
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: goes to an English boat. Of course, this guy said

460
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 2: quote the sort of boat he was looking at was

461
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: definitely a boat you could happily go long term cruising on.

462
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 2: I'm talking about possibly around the world and certainly disappear

463
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: from society if you wanted to. It's quite easy to

464
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 2: do on a large boat like that.

465
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 3: Could I reach the South Seas?

466
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? So the catabaran didn't really float their boat though?

467
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, also does see anything about sailing that's a

468
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: pretty big boat. If you don't know what you're doing,

469
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 3: you know, maybe he does.

470
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: He lives like you're up in a fishing dough.

471
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: I'm open.

472
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 2: They put on to sail the seas and like drift

473
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: above Davy Jones's locker. They went back to the plan

474
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: to buy land in a foreign country, like you were saying,

475
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: and later told The Daily Mirror quote, he was forever

476
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 2: looking at new things and new places on the Internet,

477
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: and one day he just came up with Panama, Panama, Panama, Panama.

478
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: It was I would recommend beliefs.

479
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: Why Panama?

480
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, right speaking, I speak the languages as you do.

481
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: Why Panama because of all the weird extradition pretty.

482
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 2: Much well, an accountant told The Times newspaper quote, it

483
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 2: is very simple. You pay tax in Panama only on

484
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 2: income which is judged to have arisen in Panama. And

485
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: then it's also really hard for trusts and companies set

486
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: up there to be investigated by foreign authorities.

487
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 3: It's like one of those holes.

488
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

489
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: So John, he reached out to a relocation agent named

490
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: Mario Vilar, and he used Ann's email address for this.

491
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 2: He got information about some properties that they liked and

492
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: then they took off to Central America. This is in

493
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: July of two thousand and six. Four years they fell

494
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: in love with the country. Oh, they're back in law

495
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 2: exactly the country, It's exactly what they were looking for.

496
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: So they sold their two properties on the cliff and

497
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 2: they were ready to buy. So they're in Mario's office

498
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,959
Speaker 2: and they make a big mistake. Mario asked his wife

499
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: to take a photo of him with the Darwins or

500
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 2: the Joneses, and so it all happened so quickly they

501
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: didn't have time to say, no, click, are taken. That's

502
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: going to come back to them, A picture taken in Panama.

503
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: So John he stays in Panama and goes back to

504
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: England to finalize the details of their move. He emails

505
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 2: her constantly and he always made sure to tell her that,

506
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 2: like in the email I'm writing to you while sitting

507
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: naked on the balcony, that's just that's like his thing.

508
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 3: Third, yet again, I'm a dangling in the tropical heat.

509
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: In my fifth email of the day, so.

510
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 3: Still naked, still on the balcony.

511
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: And An's quote about this, my husband appeared to be

512
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: becoming more insane by the time you think has bugs break, right,

513
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: So he had his sights set on buying like a

514
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: huge piece of land and when he got there, he'd

515
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: build a house and then develop like an eco resort.

516
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 3: That's what he wanted to Yeah, at the time, that's

517
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 3: probably the move.

518
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. So she flies back to Panama and they're working

519
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: on their plan. But then something happened. Panama changed its

520
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 2: immigration laws. Yeah, and so in order to formally relocate

521
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: and get permanent residents, John had to get a letter

522
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 2: from the British police attesting to the fact that he

523
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: was quote a person of good character. Yeah, he could

524
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: have just moved to another country start again. Whatever reason.

525
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: He's like, No, Panama, Venezuela comes to mind. He's like,

526
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 2: I think it would be best if I went back

527
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: to the UK. No, I have a plan, no wild one.

528
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: No, what about Western Australia. I got a wild one

529
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: for you.

530
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 2: Here's this story, the plan. She hears it, and she says, quote,

531
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: I told him he was crazy, but as usual, he

532
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: didn't listen. He was sure he knew best. Yeah, you're

533
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: never going to guess what the plan is, zaren close

534
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 2: your eyes. Yes, I want you to picture it. It's

535
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: December first, two thousand and seven. You're a police constable

536
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: assigned to the West End Central Police Station in London.

537
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: It's early evening, around five thirty or so, and the

538
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 2: station is buzzing as usual. You're posted up at the

539
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: front desk, sipping tea and making notes for the book

540
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 2: you're working on. It's a biography of the most famous

541
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: member of the Scotland Yard Flying Squad, Dcipickles. A man

542
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: walks into the station off the street. This is a

543
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: little unusual. Generally it's other coppers who waltz in it out,

544
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: but this guy's a civilian. He's tan and he looks

545
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 2: a little smug. You dislike him immediately, even before talking

546
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: to him. You feel bad about this, and you're about

547
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: to chastise yourself for it. But then you stop and think.

548
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: Dcipickles always followed his instinct. He always trusted his gut.

549
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: That's how he found the Missing World Cup. What would

550
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: DCI Pickles do in this situation? You nod at the

551
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: man as he approaches the counter. Can I help you, sir?

552
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: You ask, I think I'm a missing person? He says,

553
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: oh boy, you think a nutter. You ask him his

554
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: name and he tells you John Darwin. You tell him

555
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: to have a seat while you go and fetch the sergeant.

556
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: You pick up the phone and dial an extension. The

557
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: sergeant comes out and sizes up the man. These in

558
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: his late fifties, you'd say. Upon questioning, John Darwin tells

559
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: you both that he thinks he's a missing person because

560
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: he doesn't remember the last five or six years of

561
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: his life. The last he can remember is early two

562
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: thousand and two. You reach over to your computer keyboard.

563
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 4: You get to work.

564
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: The sergeant asked John Darwin where he's from. Seat in

565
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: Caro Cleveland. You start tapping away up pops a report

566
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: about a man who died at sea, his kayak being

567
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: all that remained of him. You had a canoe, The

568
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: sergeant says it was a kayak, says John Darwin. The

569
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: sergeant looks at you. You tell John Darwin to have

570
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: a seat. A media firestorm is about to catch flame.

571
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: So somehow, and I'm not saying it was You's Aaron

572
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: the UK tabloid press got wind of this amazing canoe man.

573
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: I've got a gambling problem Elizabeth.

574
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 2: Who turned up after being decre dead. And you know

575
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: how the tabloids are as soon as soon as they

576
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: had his name, they began their investigation.

577
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what I'm waiting for. And the Daily Mail

578
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 3: boys on.

579
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 2: It faster than you can say, Jack Robinson. They tracked

580
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: and a Panama and then you know Panama model citizens

581
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: zero discipline. And when they found Anne, they also found

582
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: that picture from Mario, the real estate agent's office. He

583
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 2: had posted it on his website, so there was a

584
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 2: caption identifying Anne and John, but no last names, and

585
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: the press went nuts. Detective Superintendent Tony Hutchinson said, quote,

586
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: that is one line of inquiry we will be following.

587
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: But he added photographs can be doctored.

588
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's usually what happened. You guys are like, I'm

589
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 3: going to spend my money on a photoshop of this

590
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: lovely British couple exactly.

591
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 5: So.

592
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: Hutchinson also said police had no immediate plans to extradite

593
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Anne or go to Panama to interview her. He said

594
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: Darwin's appearance had raised a lot of questions. Quote, we

595
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: need to speak to on Darwin. Clearly, it's only right

596
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: and proper that we spoke to him under caution, and

597
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: he said that you know, he was going to be

598
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 2: medically examined. He may have been suffering from amnesia for

599
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: five and a half years.

600
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: There's like no amnesia test now. It was just like

601
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: these two doctors both agree.

602
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: I guess yeah. So the Hutchinsony makes this public appeal

603
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: for information. He tells reporters we want to piece together

604
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: exactly where he's been since he went missing in two

605
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: thousand and two, and then asked whether the investigation was

606
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: being led by the media. He said journalists had more

607
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: quote latitude than the police, and he added the press

608
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: have certainly been providing us with a lot of information.

609
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: To the UK, He's like, you.

610
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: Do the leg work. That's great. So with a nod

611
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: from the cops. The press chase is on the Splash

612
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: News and Picture agency. They were the first to find Ann.

613
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: They tracked her down to Panama City and other tabloids

614
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: hot on their trail. They persuaded her to go into hiding.

615
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: They did, yeah them, right them.

616
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: And they said, if you give our reporters and photographers

617
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: exclusive accents. As her story unraveled into global news, the

618
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: agency just had like scoop after scoop.

619
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: This is like a nineteen twenty story in America.

620
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: I love this because their clients were the Daily Mail

621
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: and the Mirror.

622
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah of course, oh yeah, the big ones.

623
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: And so the competition like they can't keep.

624
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 3: Us, The Sun's losing it. Oh yeah.

625
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: The rumors that Anne was in Panama prompted the Mail

626
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: to contract David Lee, who was a former Mirror news

627
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: editor and was now chief of Splash's Miami bureau, to

628
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: fly to Central America. Okay, right after his arrival, the

629
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Mirror finds out Darwin's address in Panama, said the Mail.

630
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: They had a team on the ground, but no address.

631
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: The Mirror has the address, but no team. So they

632
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: made a deal. The Mirror would hand over the address

633
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: and then they would share the scoop. Both papers denied

634
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: paying her directly, but Splash may have paid her the

635
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: news agency. So Splash takes her to the airport for

636
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: a flight to Miami and that's where the agency has

637
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: a base, and from there they get her back to

638
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: the UK. And this is when the press starts calling

639
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: John Darwin canoe man and it's open season at this point.

640
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: So and she gets back to England and she has

641
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: to confront more than the tabloids. She has to face

642
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: her sons. Oh right, right, remember them, Anthony and Mark.

643
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: So they issued a joint statement saying that they were

644
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: quote astonished that their mother could have let them believe

645
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: that their father died, and she's begging their forgiveness. Quote

646
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: who can blame them? I lied to them, my own sons.

647
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: What sort of mother am I? That's what she tells

648
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: the Daily Mail. Oh yeah, my sons are never going

649
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: to forgive me, she said, quote they thought John was dead.

650
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: Now they're gonna hate me. They'll be devastated and we'll

651
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: probably want nothing to do with me again.

652
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 3: Probably, yeah, probably.

653
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: I think you're about right so far.

654
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: You're like this kind of analysis you could have used earlier.

655
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: So they're like the Daily Mails like tell us more. Quote,

656
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to live my life as a fugitive.

657
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: I'll have to go back because I won't have any

658
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 2: life here. Never have listened to John, but he can

659
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 2: be very persuasive. Of course, I'm to blame too. I

660
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: know I've done wrong. I just wish i'd told the

661
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: boys when I found out. I'm sure they would have

662
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: talked some sense into me. But I didn't. I didn't

663
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: tell anyone, and one lie led to another yeah, yeah,

664
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: there it is, Anne and so the SUNS. They released

665
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: this joint statement. Quote, in this short space of time

666
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: following our dad's appearance on Saturday, we've gone through a

667
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: rollercoaster of emotion. If the paper's allegations of a confession

668
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: from our mam are true, then we very much feel

669
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: that we have been the victims in a large scam.

670
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: How could our ma'am continue to let us believe our

671
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: dad had died when he was very much alive? How

672
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: could you, ma'am? So the statement added that they had

673
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: had no contact with either of the parents since John,

674
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: you know, walked into the place. I do you do? Yeah?

675
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: I do is I'm as they start to protest a

676
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 3: little too much, I'm starting to be a little suspicious.

677
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: No, I believe them, Okay, leave him. It came out though,

678
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: that the investigation into John didn't start when he walked

679
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: into the police station. What Yeah. It was actually reopened

680
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: three months prior in September, because a coworker of Anne's

681
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: at the doctor's office told the cops that she'd overheard

682
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: a series of suspicious phone calls in hushed tones. Why

683
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: she waited that long years earlier years and the time time,

684
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: so weird. But Tony Hutchinson, Detective Superintendent. He said, quote,

685
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: there was some information which was reported to us three

686
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: months ago to suggest that perhaps there was something suspicious

687
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: with regards to his disappearance.

688
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: I wonder if she caught something else, you know, or

689
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: whatever till he came to light and then she just

690
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: went and.

691
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: But don't forget Anne went back to She went back

692
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,719
Speaker 2: to the UK to do the property settlement. And so maybe,

693
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: like she was in the doctor's.

694
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: Office, maybe she's also still in contact with people, and

695
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: maybe she just offended this woman on some totally unrelated score,

696
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: like her biscuits are really dry. I'm going to the police.

697
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: Her scones were exactly.

698
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 2: So let's take a break. When we come back, we're

699
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: going to see what the law has in.

700
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 4: Store for the Darwins.

701
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: John Darwin would yeah, the man accused of faking his

702
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: own death in a canoeing accident aka Kayak and Darwin

703
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: his long suffering wife. So they get busted after John

704
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: strolled into the cop shop says he has amnesia, might

705
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: be a missing person. Everything fell apart. They wind up

706
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: charged with a series of fraud related offenses that added

707
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: up to like two hundred and fifty pounds.

708
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like all the money they had.

709
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. John pleads guilty to seven charges of obtaining cash

710
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: by deception and a passport offense. Just plead skillt He

711
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: denied nine other charges of using criminal property, an offense

712
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 2: related to the money laundering. Okay, And the prosecutors are like, okay,

713
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 2: the ones that you denied, you're not going to face trial,

714
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: you know, We're just gonna let it lie. And she

715
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: denies the deception charges and nine of the using criminal property.

716
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: So she went to trial in court and described John

717
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: as like domineering, manipulative, just always got what he wanted. Yeah.

718
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: She said that once she thought about leaving him after

719
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: finding out that he'd had an affair, but then she

720
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: couldn't contemplate life without him.

721
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 3: Oh I would have held the like he forced her somehow,

722
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: like he can't be like, oh I decided to stay

723
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: with him.

724
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: I think he did. I think he forced her.

725
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: I would have played if I would have made that

726
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: part of my narrative.

727
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: Then, when she was asked about like how she was

728
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: playing the grieving widow, she said, quote, I honestly felt

729
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: like a grieving widow. I'd lost my husband, not the

730
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: sense he was lost, but he'd left me. I felt desperate,

731
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: I felt ashamed about what was happening. The emotions I

732
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: showed were genuine emotions.

733
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 3: That's well for her.

734
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 2: She said that the strain of keeping up that deception

735
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: was so hard that one time she ran out of

736
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: the house and went to the beach, and she said

737
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: that quote, I sat on the beach looking at the sea.

738
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: I wish that John had drowned at sea. I considered

739
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: walking into the sea. I got so desperate, but I

740
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: couldn't do it because of the effect it would have

741
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: had on the rest of the family, particularly Mark and Anthony.

742
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: I think this is right now, You're thinking about the

743
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: boys totally.

744
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 3: I think that is why Gary Betzner hypnotized his wife

745
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: before he went off and faked his death was somewhat alleviator.

746
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: This concerns the psychic damage, or maybe not. Maybe he

747
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: just wanted her to pull Maybe.

748
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: It was not fun so and since she had no

749
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: idea how bad the debt was before he, you know,

750
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: staged his death, that he had always kind of dealt

751
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: with all the finances. Her court case was followed doggedly

752
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: by the press, every detail examined.

753
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: Not the British tabloid.

754
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: So she gets found guilty. She gets sentenced to six

755
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: years three months. John had gotten the same thing.

756
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 3: Okay, she gets more time than him. I'm gonna lose it.

757
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: They got exactly the same and then they later appealed

758
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 2: those decisions.

759
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm good for her.

760
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's not a good crime and it's not

761
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: a good ridiculous criminal if there's no book involved.

762
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 3: Oh yes, please, the book club needs it's new books.

763
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: While in jail, John wrote a memoir detailing his scam

764
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: and like in graphic detail his affairs.

765
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: He's like, memoirs, those can be partly fictional.

766
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he tries to smuggle it out of his jail.

767
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: I like he's like a lot of sex. He's like,

768
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I'm a sexy guy and you need to

769
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 3: hear my story. This is central to understanding the Darwin.

770
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: He got to know if you want to know me.

771
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: Extracts from the book were published in the tabloid The Sun.

772
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, get in on this.

773
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: Like John, he teamed up with this dude, this like

774
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: fraudster that he met in jail, and I posed as

775
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: his lawyer. After he got out, so his other scam

776
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: artist friend gets out of jail then says, oh, yeah,

777
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: I'm his lawyer. And that's how they could exchange uncensored

778
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: material under Rule thirty nine, which allows for correspondence between

779
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: prisoners and their legal advisors to be treated as confidential.

780
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 3: So in the US, they don't have like show me

781
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 3: your legal card, like you're he's lawyer.

782
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: He just like walks out of the prison, puts a

783
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: blazer on. Yeah. So the prison Service, I mean the

784
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 2: prison Service, obviously they don't. They don't carry out any

785
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: checks that they should have. And the reason for the

786
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,959
Speaker 2: upset about this is that the Ministry of Justice said

787
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: that it's wrong for convicted criminals to profit from their crist.

788
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: So the memoir, he called it The Canoe Man, Panama

789
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: and Back. It's a terrible title, terrible, terrible. He talks

790
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: about how he contemplated suicide the face of his mounting debts,

791
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: but then he realized it wouldn't solve his financial because

792
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 2: you know, you can't collect life insurance, and he worried

793
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 2: what effect it would have on his wife, which like,

794
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: I don't believe on that, he said quote, not only

795
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: would I think I was a failure in the eyes

796
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 2: of Anne, but also in the eyes of my two sons,

797
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: as I would have lost the Faily home, lost absolutely

798
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: everything that Anne and I had worked for.

799
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 3: So instead he fakes his death, makes his wife lie

800
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 3: to the kids, his dad. He's like, that's the answer,

801
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: that's the good one.

802
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: He calls the moment that he came up with the

803
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: idea to fake his own death a eureka moment. He

804
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: didn't want to take the Oprah's aha. He said, quote,

805
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: if we couldn't die, then my crazed brain reason I

806
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: could pretend to die. Not a job for Anne. She

807
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 2: may fluff it completely and end up really dead. For

808
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: my part, I no longer had a choice. I'd made

809
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: up my mind to do it for real. After all,

810
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be the first man to kill himself because

811
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: of financial pressures. The only difference in this case was

812
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 2: that it would look like an accident. A suicide would

813
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: be useless. The insurance company wouldn't pay it out, so

814
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 2: he serves half his sentence. He gets out in January

815
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: twenty eleven and is released a couple of months later

816
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 2: the Crown Prosecution Service. They recovered assets, including their apartment

817
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 2: in Panama City, and then like the piece of jungle

818
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: that they bought. Oh yeah, they were gonna like open a.

819
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: Bread breath right resort.

820
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And so they combined that with the cash

821
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: that was left over the other assets, and prosecutors are

822
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: about to get back almost half a million pounds. The

823
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: news reports. Some said that they made off with two

824
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand pounds and others said six hundred

825
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: thousand pounds. It was just a lot.

826
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 3: Whatever it was, there's somewhere in the hundred.

827
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just gets loose. The crime spurred another crime.

828
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: Sky News admitted that one of its senior executives authorized

829
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: a journalist to conduct email hacking on two separate occasions

830
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: that were in the quote public interest, even though you

831
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: know it's violating the computer misuse, We got it.

832
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 3: We really need to know the answer of about those Darwin.

833
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 2: Hard tub the Sky News Northern England Correspondence. He hacked

834
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: emails belonging to John Darwin while Anne was on trial.

835
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: So he hacked John's emails. He built up a database

836
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 2: of emails that he thought would defeat her defense. Yeah,

837
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: and so the charges against him get dropped because prosecutors

838
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: said it would not be in the public interest to

839
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: prosecute him because the emails were accessed with a view

840
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: to providing that a criminal offense had been committed. So

841
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: it's like, basically like you're kind of helping the prosecution.

842
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: They said that. They said a number of the same

843
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: emails they later got the police later got them lawfully

844
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: and were used in trial, and.

845
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: They were actually from Megan Markle, right.

846
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 2: So they're like they were going to come out anyway.

847
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 2: So whatever, it's cool. It doesn't seem right, but who

848
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 2: am I to say? But this wasn't the end of

849
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 2: Canoeman John Darwin.

850
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 3: What happened to Canoeman John Darwin Elizabeth twenty thirteen?

851
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: He gets arrested for violating his parole after he traveled

852
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: to Ukraine.

853
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 3: Why okay, twenty thirteen was he washing money?

854
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 5: Now?

855
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: Under the terms you'll find out when he was washing

856
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 2: over there? Under the terms of his release, he wasn't

857
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: allowed to leave Britain without authorities on that. He didn't care.

858
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: He went to the town of Subi in Ukraine to meet.

859
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 3: A woman a resort town.

860
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: Sum Yeah, he was spying himself a bride buying a

861
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 2: bride because he and Anne. They were divorced at this point.

862
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: I was hoping that she had left him finally.

863
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it falls through with the Ukrainian no h

864
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: and Ann's retired. She lives alone in the north of England.

865
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: She reconciled with her boy.

866
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: Every time he goes to a new woman and when

867
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 3: they meet him, they're like, oh no.

868
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: No, no, They're like, an he's your problem to goad.

869
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: So she makes up with her kids, Mark and Anthony.

870
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 2: They had disowned her like completely, and she's able to

871
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 2: be a part of her grandchildren's life.

872
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 3: So they became parents and that kind of softened their stands. Yeah,

873
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: mistakes are made.

874
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes theirs are like, you know, she has It's fun.

875
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 3: How that helps becoming a parent You suddenly judge your

876
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 3: own parents differently. Yeah, I say that as a non parent,

877
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 3: I still got to judge my total.

878
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: While she was in prison and wrote a book if

879
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: she worked with journalists David Lee on a book called

880
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: Out of My Depth.

881
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: You can't finish your book, go to prison, the journalist

882
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: will come and help you.

883
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: Give us another book. She talks publicly a lot about

884
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: her involvement in the scam, but she still says that

885
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 2: she was controlled by John the whole thing.

886
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 3: I do believe that.

887
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. John. When he got out, he returned to his hometown,

888
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: the Staine Cliff Hotel. There has a canoe bar and Darwin.

889
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 3: Restaurant banking on you knew me when well, no.

890
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: He didn't do it.

891
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 3: They just.

892
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 7: Wow.

893
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, you know, talk of the town. He

894
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: tried to sell that memoir and was not successful. No

895
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: publishers bought it. So then he moved to the philomen.

896
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: And publishers agree about him.

897
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: He moved to the Philippines, Oh god, and he married

898
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: a woman named Mercy May, who was twenty three years

899
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 2: his junior. Mercy May, he lives there now. They run

900
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 2: a market stall together. Really yeah, outside she does.

901
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 3: All the work. I'm kissing. He's not out front, of course.

902
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: This is what Mercy May said. Quote. I know what

903
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: he did. He knows, and he paid penalty. He doesn't

904
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: need to be reminded.

905
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 3: Oh I'm glad. He's got a very supportive and royal wife.

906
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 2: So he made the news in twenty twenty two, what

907
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: for when Mercy told the tabloids that he was willing

908
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: to travel to Ukraine to fight what he was seventy

909
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: one at this in the war. Yeah, in the.

910
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 3: War, I was like really hoping to be like an

911
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: exhibition boxing match and not in the war. Be a

912
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: bad idea.

913
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: War Mercy told the Mirror quote, yes, dangerous for the

914
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: Russian when he shoot them. Oh no, yeah. She said

915
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: that he had good life insurance. Quote, he will have

916
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: a bulletproof vest and good life insurance. Good for me.

917
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 3: I made the bulletproof ess myself.

918
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: Fan's crazy out of the market stall stuff.

919
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: No, it's like it may work.

920
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: Why why was she talking to the tabloids in twenty

921
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: twenty two.

922
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 3: And why was she trying to send her husband off

923
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 3: to warn talking about the answer.

924
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: That I understand. I get it to the tabs because

925
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: ITV released a four part drama series called The Thief,

926
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: His Wife and the Canoe.

927
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 3: Oh like I got it.

928
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: Here's the cast. Eddie Marson is John Darwin. You know

929
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: that actor he was like in He played the boxing

930
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: brother in Ray Donovan and I know you'll recognize.

931
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 3: Him if you see your name sounds familiar.

932
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: Monica Dolan is Anne Darwin, Mark Stanley is Mark Darwin.

933
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: Not Mark Stanley.

934
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: Dominic Applewhite is Anthony Darwin, and Carl Pilkington as DC

935
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: Phil Bailey. You know Carl Pilkington. He is the like

936
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: dimlit buddy of what's his name that I can't stand,

937
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: the original office guy, the original Office guy gerv Rickey Gervais, right, okay,

938
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 2: Ricky Gervas. He has a show with his pal Carl

939
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: Pilkington and they travel and Carl is such a dimwit,

940
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 2: but I love him so much. He's hilarious. And Steven

941
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: Merchant he's funny, he's involved anyway, Carl Pilkington, of all

942
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 2: people is DC Phil Bailey.

943
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 3: That's a big mood in like the UK. I've noticed

944
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 3: is that we take one guy post likely funny, and

945
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 3: then we have him travel places like there's a lot

946
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: of shows.

947
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a bunch of shows like that. So

948
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: you can watch this on brit Box, which hypothetically, if

949
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: I were.

950
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: Someone are you sponsored by?

951
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: If I were someone who watched TV, I would one

952
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: have a brit Box subscription, And if I were the

953
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: type to watch TV, which I don't because it's totally

954
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: beneath me, I would wait until I finished recording this

955
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 2: episode to watch the series because I wouldn't want the

956
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: fictionalized version to tape my research version.

957
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 3: Huh.

958
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 2: Like if I were to watch Yeah so Zaren.

959
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 3: When is called The Midwife on BritBox, it's.

960
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: Not well, I watched it through PBS. I mean I would.

961
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: I would hypothetically watch it through TuS passport and I

962
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 2: would hypothetically watch things like Father Bros. Hypothetically hypothetically or

963
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: you know, just Silent Witness. I heard that's I don't know.

964
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a show or not.

965
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: I sound like it would be good if it were

966
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 3: me or likes.

967
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

968
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: I don't watch TV. I appreciate this.

969
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: What's your ridiculous takeaway.

970
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 3: The well? I mean he didn't deserve her, so like

971
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 3: it shouldn't have worked out, but like you make it,

972
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 3: you get away. Your wife helps you fake your death.

973
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 3: She pulls off the hard work of like the month

974
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 3: of like convincing everyone you're dead. You're supposed to then

975
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 3: take her on a vacation or move somewhere nice and

976
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: he doesn't knew anybody. He's like, instead, I'm going to

977
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 3: the Midwest. I got myself a gamer wife. I mean, like, bro,

978
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: what the hell this room?

979
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: Play video game? Like mobile around town.

980
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: Early in his first idea is like, well, I've been

981
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: online a while, yeah, and the world, what's yours? Elizabeth?

982
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: I he's a horse's ass, ye, I can't stand it.

983
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: And Anne is a doormat and I feel for her same,

984
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: And I'm glad that things have resolved themselves from me.

985
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 2: And I feel bad for Mercy May but I kind

986
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: of don't because I feel like.

987
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: She maybe she seems at opportunity.

988
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: She might smother him in to sleep.

989
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, does.

990
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: Hypothetically allegedly. Let's see, Oh, Dave, do we do we

991
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: have any talkbacks?

992
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 3: I think I can wrestle one up?

993
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, freshy, Oh my god, I want.

994
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: Hi, Elizabeth and Barren.

995
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 7: I just listened to your episode about all the stake universities,

996
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 7: and my favorite part was all the dogs and cats

997
00:48:54,560 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 7: getting their degrees. I think that's awesome. And I think

998
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 7: that y'all should make a T shirt that says Rude

999
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 7: University because I would totally love a bogus degree from

1000
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 7: rudu University.

1001
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 2: I would buy that all right, bye, yes university.

1002
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: We got two ideas, start a fake university and sell mercer.

1003
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,919
Speaker 2: We should sell diplomas from Rude you know, what I'm saying.

1004
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 3: We get, of course, get in on the diploma, and

1005
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 3: then we also want.

1006
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 2: Do you want like a doctorate in criming?

1007
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: I told you I'm working on that. I'm going to

1008
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 3: get the legitimate one, and then I'm going to get

1009
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 3: a fake one just in case of the legitimate one.

1010
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: Does we could we could just put them up on

1011
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: the website and people could print them off.

1012
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: For I'm charitable, yes, tell them donate to our local

1013
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: charity and you get one of these. Even have to

1014
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 3: give us proof.

1015
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 2: You just hack the mainframe and get in there. That's it.

1016
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 2: That's all I have for today. You can find us

1017
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: online at ridiculous crime dot com. We're also at ridiculous

1018
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: Crime on both Twitter and Instagram. Email ridiculous Crime at

1019
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: gmail dot com, download the iHeart app, and please leave

1020
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 2: us a talk back reach out and keep us leazy.

1021
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Sarah Burnett,

1022
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: produced and edited by houseboat Guy Dave Cousten. Research is

1023
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: by pontoon Boat Human Marissa Brown and jet Ski individual

1024
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: Andrea song Sharpened Tear. The theme song is by Trawler

1025
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: person Thomas Lee and wakeboard Dude Travis Dutton post wardrobe

1026
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 2: is provided by Botany five Hundred. Executive producers are Ben Sloop,

1027
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 2: John Bolan and Barge Buddy Noel.

1028
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 5: Brown, Ridicus Crime, Say It One More Times

1029
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: Crime Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Four more

1030
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1031
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.