Speaker 1: To on the move, going deep, speed wins peast Hellas.
Speaker 2: From the Baptist Health Studios inside the Baptist Health Training Complex.
Speaker 3: This is Drivetime with Travis Wingfield.
Speaker 2: He's my advands in the playoffs. What is up, Dolphins
Speaker 2: and welcome to the Draft Time Podcast. I am your host,
Speaker 2: Travis Wingfield. And on today's show, we get Smarter about
Speaker 2: quarterback play. Jordan Reid from ESPN joins us to talk
Speaker 2: not just about this year's class, but about the evaluation
Speaker 2: process of teams and gms in twenty twenty four and
Speaker 2: how that's changed over the course of years, the disconnect
Speaker 2: between arm talent and actually playing the position of quarterback,
Speaker 2: and a whole lot more. You don't want to miss that.
Speaker 2: Plus we'll talk about the class and finally a new signing.
Speaker 2: I'll break down all things tape and what you need
Speaker 2: to know about Tier Tart From the Baptists Health Studios
Speaker 2: inside the Baptist Health Training Complex. This is the Drive
Speaker 2: Time Podcast. My apologies for not having the Tier Tart
Speaker 2: breakdown on the Monday episode of Drive Time. That would
Speaker 2: have been the original plan, but last Monday I ate
Speaker 2: a damn starburst and pulled the crown of my tooth
Speaker 2: off and come to find out that crown had been
Speaker 2: misplaced in some way, and so over the course of
Speaker 2: like eight years, a amount of decay build up on
Speaker 2: that tooth, and so I've made several trips to the dentist.
Speaker 2: Just had the root canal on Monday at ten am
Speaker 2: and was recovering all day, so didn't have a chance
Speaker 2: to come update that for you guys. We are on
Speaker 2: the mend, we are feeling better, and we are watching
Speaker 2: football tapes. The Dolphins add Tir Tart. What a name
Speaker 2: that is, by the way, one of the best names
Speaker 2: in football since we last talked. And stop me if
Speaker 2: you have heard this part before. Former UDFA super super quick,
Speaker 2: first step plays with urgency and power. I mean the
Speaker 2: theme on the type of player that the Dolphins have
Speaker 2: been adding since the arrival of Mike McDaniel. Just go
Speaker 2: read up on Tart in his time with the Titans,
Speaker 2: an early fan favorite that won the hearts of the
Speaker 2: fan base by hitting immediately in camp in preseason in
Speaker 2: year one as a UDFA out of in our second
Speaker 2: player from the school, now another Florida International University panther
Speaker 2: here with the Miami Dolphins. His final year there in college,
Speaker 2: he had ten and a half tackles for a loss
Speaker 2: which led the team, and one and a half sacks.
Speaker 2: But how about this though his high school that he
Speaker 2: went to in the Philadelphia area didn't have a football team,
Speaker 2: and a local football coach saw him on the hardwood
Speaker 2: well the black top, playing hoop and said, yeah, I
Speaker 2: need that on my football field. I remember, like in
Speaker 2: the nineties or I guess this would have been two thousand,
Speaker 2: so that's not the same thing. But like you know,
Speaker 2: in the old days, you could just like walk around
Speaker 2: be like, oh, that guy looks like I can play football.
Speaker 2: I can probably get him to come play football for
Speaker 2: my school because there's no like, you know, he's not
Speaker 2: being recruited by social media yet or whatever.
Speaker 3: That's I digress.
Speaker 2: Anyway, he transferred schools he didn't want up at Asa
Speaker 2: College in New York.
Speaker 3: What's that?
Speaker 2: Who knows, but quits after six games, in which he
Speaker 2: recorded five sacks in those six games because of a
Speaker 2: death of a family member heartbreak. Like hardship Man, he
Speaker 2: eventually wound up at Ellsworth CC in Iowa, May Toro
Speaker 2: Meniscus after two games. Like McDaniel talks about this all
Speaker 2: the time. How guys are hardened by their experiences, how
Speaker 2: they're shaped by their experiences. A lot of the guys
Speaker 2: that come through this locker room, McDaniel looks for guys
Speaker 2: who kind of had a similar route as himself. What
Speaker 2: was the league that McDaniel was in, the AFL or
Speaker 2: the UFL or the btc.
Speaker 3: FL like who cares?
Speaker 2: It was a league that no one cared about, and
Speaker 2: he had to work his way back into the NFL.
Speaker 2: And the reason that I wanted to bring this background
Speaker 2: up and he went to FIU in twenty eighteen, the
Speaker 2: reason I wanted to bring up the background was I
Speaker 2: noticed this on his tape and this from NFL dot
Speaker 2: COM's Lance zerline and his scouting report. Compact three technique
Speaker 2: who plays with explosive power to make up for his
Speaker 2: average quickness. Tart isn't slow or on an athletic, but
Speaker 2: he doesn't have the first step quickness to be a
Speaker 2: disruptive gap shooter or consistent pass rusher. He can be
Speaker 2: a little inconsistent with the timing and placement of his hands,
Speaker 2: but he has the power and leverage to control single blocks.
Speaker 2: With better technique, Tart can be a slow starter, but
Speaker 2: a strong finisher from rep to rep. His upside and
Speaker 2: brand of nasty could give him a chance to find
Speaker 2: NFL work at some point. What's really interesting to me
Speaker 2: about that entire collection of words, But really the first
Speaker 2: sentence is that it's already wrong twice in that first sentence.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it was wrong then. But Tart doesn't
Speaker 2: play a lot of three technique. He's almost always in
Speaker 2: the nose, and he's not slow off the football like
Speaker 2: at all. A good reminder the players can change and develop, right,
Speaker 2: But what else do you notice about that report? Some
Speaker 2: nasty to his game. I've read that about Brewer, Driscoll, Gallimore.
Speaker 2: It seems like there's a prerequisite in the trenches down
Speaker 2: here in Miami to be kind of a tough SOB
Speaker 2: and looking at the report, like being inconsistent and getting
Speaker 2: better technique. He has done that because you watch his
Speaker 2: tape and it's all over his tape, consistent reps, consistent
Speaker 2: wins with his hands, good grip strength, the ability to
Speaker 2: deconstruct blocks. In that same NFL dot Com report, an
Speaker 2: anonymous coach in the NFC so he didn't think that
Speaker 2: his team would draft Tart because of the pandemic and
Speaker 2: the lack of a medical report for him, but that
Speaker 2: he could become a player in the league one day
Speaker 2: just makes you think if he had had a shot,
Speaker 2: if not for his final season and being twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: during the pandemic, and what a crazy time that was
Speaker 2: for a lot of players who you know, coming from
Speaker 2: a small school from CC like those are the kind
Speaker 2: of guys that kind of got screwed that time of
Speaker 2: our crazy, crazy universe. Here some numbers on him. Played
Speaker 2: a career high five hundred and twenty snaps in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two last year was right around his sophomore season
Speaker 2: total three seventy eight and three forty four alike, he
Speaker 2: played a buck fifty five as a rookie. That's nearly
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred snaps and they have been split with a
Speaker 2: fifty four percent rate against the As a pass rusher,
Speaker 2: it's actually the exact same career pass rush rate as
Speaker 2: Benito Jones, who I think is a better run defender
Speaker 2: in his game, then I think Tart's better both run
Speaker 2: and pass rush. But for Benito, I think the his
Speaker 2: strength is the run game, whereas Tart maybe it's a
Speaker 2: little bit of both. I don't know, but he has
Speaker 2: forty three pressures, two and a half sacks, fourteen quarter hits,
Speaker 2: seventy nine tackles, seven passes defense, He made sixteen TFLs.
Speaker 2: When he wins, he wins fast, forty eight stops and
Speaker 2: a pick, And that twenty twenty two season produced nick approximate.
Speaker 3: Value of eight.
Speaker 2: He was a four last year and a four and
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one he was a one as a rookie,
Speaker 2: So that twenty twenty two tape is really damn good.
Speaker 3: You go back and plug that on.
Speaker 2: The first thing that jumps out to me is the
Speaker 2: first step quickness, Like That's why I laughed about the
Speaker 2: report originally. From there, he just continues to pick up
Speaker 2: and build speed. He's super quick and shifty. He uses
Speaker 2: that jittery side to side action with a lengthy wingspan
Speaker 2: and very good technique to shift and move and contort
Speaker 2: his man to get the advantage on him. Regardless of
Speaker 2: the angle that he rushes with, the Titans would usually
Speaker 2: line him up as a one shade of some sort,
Speaker 2: think of either shoulder of the center. He's off of
Speaker 2: that either left or right shoulder of the center, playing
Speaker 2: either a gap, and when there's a backside run or
Speaker 2: when he's on the backside, I should say where it's
Speaker 2: the weak side of the formation, less players to that side.
Speaker 2: He would align at this forty five degree angle where
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't have a care about getting a
Speaker 2: rib shot from the left guard right here. I'm going
Speaker 2: to go stab the center and control this block this
Speaker 2: backside a gap so I can detach no matter what
Speaker 2: happens with the center, and then he would work to
Speaker 2: get that displacement or knock back. Usually shocked him and
Speaker 2: took him back a couple of steps or so towards
Speaker 2: the strong side, and then if the play would roll
Speaker 2: out strong, he has the ability to work to get
Speaker 2: over the top with that.
Speaker 3: Hand placement, with that swim.
Speaker 2: You can't engage and swim over the top if you
Speaker 2: don't have really good initial hand striking, and that's what
Speaker 2: he has, and he has a good array of moves
Speaker 2: to do it, and the most notable is that swim
Speaker 2: with a quick swipe to the ribs, swim over the
Speaker 2: top and get yourself in pole position and then use
Speaker 2: the quickness to outrun them. But then he could also
Speaker 2: play the backside cut, back lane and has such good
Speaker 2: eyes and feel for when to hold the block, hold
Speaker 2: the block, hold the plot, get off and go make
Speaker 2: the play. Very very good smart player that way. Then,
Speaker 2: of course, other times he's aligned to the strong side
Speaker 2: of the formation and his ability to penetrate the a
Speaker 2: gap from there would then force backs to either extend
Speaker 2: their track and bubble. And if back bubbles, that's what
Speaker 2: you want, man take more steps backwards, allow our cavalry
Speaker 2: three steps down to arrive. Because of that, he would
Speaker 2: do that on the front side runs or if they
Speaker 2: kept it to the backside. He has the angle kind
Speaker 2: of ability to you, kind of like an edge rusher
Speaker 2: who bends the arc to get upfield quickly, penetrate when
Speaker 2: immediately across your man's face, and then wind it back
Speaker 2: and flag it back down on the backside. Extremely quick
Speaker 2: plays through power in the lower half.
Speaker 3: Of his body.
Speaker 2: He's just a squatty body, dumpy type of player, utilizes
Speaker 2: a very nice wingspan that he offers to deconstruct those blocks.
Speaker 2: And if you go back and watch the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two tape, he and David Long had quite the propensity
Speaker 2: for getting off blocks of much much bigger players. I'm
Speaker 2: really curious see what his role here is going to be.
Speaker 2: He played mostly zero and one technique with the Titans.
Speaker 2: There was some three technique in there, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine he plays the nose too frequently because
Speaker 2: that's just not Weaver has done in the past. He's
Speaker 2: always had three hundred and thirty pound plus guys in
Speaker 2: those roles. I would imagine he plays a lot more two, two,
Speaker 2: y and three technique here, and that's definitely you know,
Speaker 2: your nose pass rusher on nickel rushing downs again, super
Speaker 2: quick off the ball. Perhaps a platoon with Benito and
Speaker 2: then additional snaps as a two or three in base
Speaker 2: downs might be kind of the role I carve out
Speaker 2: here for tier Tart in Miami. It's obviously tough to
Speaker 2: stack up double teams when you're flat out outweighed, but
Speaker 2: damn it if he doesn't give centers one on one,
Speaker 2: just a world of headaches with a nice combination of
Speaker 2: speed and power. So maybe he can play that nose
Speaker 2: tackle lot. I don't know's I'm conflicted there. I think
Speaker 2: he figures to serve something of an Adam Butler role
Speaker 2: as a nickel rusher. Do you guys, remember Adam Butler.
Speaker 2: He was so fast off the ball that really would
Speaker 2: help stack up gaps and create runs for the linebackers.
Speaker 2: And the blitzing scheme of Flores and Boyer and Tart
Speaker 2: has that kind of quick and ability to open up lanes,
Speaker 2: and that combination of skills is what makes him so effective.
Speaker 2: He can load up a bul rush and take you
Speaker 2: right to the quarterback that way, then the next snap
Speaker 2: he can swipe and swim and you're over your skis
Speaker 2: because you committed to initiating contact originally, try to cut
Speaker 2: him off at the pass and not let him get
Speaker 2: that power and that lower half extension into you. If
Speaker 2: they double and down block him, he probably doesn't really
Speaker 2: do much for you in that regard. That's kind of
Speaker 2: the weakness I think here. That also happened with the
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollar man in the cold game in
Speaker 2: Kansas City last year too. Like not to be disparaging,
Speaker 2: but no player wins every time, and those types of blocks,
Speaker 2: when executed well by the offense, are very tough to
Speaker 2: get around. But that's really the negative I saw on
Speaker 2: his tape. Maybe gives some ground on doubles, which is
Speaker 2: why he probably gives up his spot on obvious rundowns
Speaker 2: in heavy personnel, Like if it's twelve thirteen personnel, twenty
Speaker 2: one personnel, probably get a bigger body in there to
Speaker 2: play for Tartan he can come back on when they
Speaker 2: go to eleven personnel. I don't know, guys, I sound
Speaker 2: like a broken record here with this stuff. But these
Speaker 2: kind of free agent signings that good teams make, these
Speaker 2: are it. That's what they do. They don't go out
Speaker 2: and make a splash at the top of the market.
Speaker 2: They just continue to stack up good quality football players
Speaker 2: for affordable cost value, not paying out the nose for
Speaker 2: one player, continuously building your depth. I just think we
Speaker 2: are such a deeper football team than we were a
Speaker 2: season to go. And I look at this D line
Speaker 2: rotation and look like they're still the draft and udfas
Speaker 2: and post June one and cut down day in August.
Speaker 2: There are multiple avenues ahead to adding to the roster.
Speaker 2: But look at this D line, Like, ideally Phillips, Chubb
Speaker 2: and Seiler all play eight hundred snaps, right, but who
Speaker 2: knows what two and fifteen are ready for? But healthy ideally,
Speaker 2: which is what you anticipate getting at some point this year,
Speaker 2: at some point in the season, for discussion sake, we'll
Speaker 2: call it eight hundred snaps. And if you need five
Speaker 2: thousand snaps out of five spots like Shaq Barrett's good
Speaker 2: for a solid five or six hundred, give or take.
Speaker 2: And then I think that tart is another five hundred
Speaker 2: plus level player, which takes us to like thirty one
Speaker 2: hundred snaps. So nineteen hundred snaps for Benito, Gallimore, Hand Harris,
Speaker 2: and Cam Good and then whatever comes of the draft slash,
Speaker 2: the rest of the offseason and the roster additions there.
Speaker 2: That's a very, very one on one way of looking
Speaker 2: at it. But you certainly created a situation where someone
Speaker 2: could step forward and sees a bigger role, or you
Speaker 2: do now have the fallback option of making it up
Speaker 2: in the aggregate. I think about it all the time,
Speaker 2: how fortunate we were to not have injuries last year
Speaker 2: to guys like Seler and Wilkins, because almost nobody else played.
Speaker 2: What would you've done, It would have been Brandon Peelely
Speaker 2: and Deshean hand those roles. Now you have guys that
Speaker 2: can step in and fill those roles and feel a
Speaker 2: lot more comfortable and confident about it. So that's the
Speaker 2: tr Tart skinny. I think we'll hear from him in
Speaker 2: the media eventually this week. I'm not sure when that's
Speaker 2: going to happen, but we'll keep your posts on that.
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take our first break right here.
Speaker 2: Come back on the other side and hear from the
Speaker 2: fantastic Jordan Reid of ESPN. That's next Draft Time podcast,
Speaker 2: your host Travis Wingfield, brought to you by Auto Nation,
Speaker 2: joined today by one of my favorite recurring guests on
Speaker 2: the show. I say that for all my guests, but
Speaker 2: I meet it once again today, Jordan Reid, ESPN. Jordan,
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking some time today out of your busy schedule.
Speaker 1: Man, No problem, thanks as all ways, there's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: It feels like we're doing this every year now at
Speaker 1: the combine and now here with just underw a month
Speaker 1: until the draft now, so spun time is definitely for
Speaker 1: the Dolphins now too.
Speaker 3: I'm very routine based, Jordan.
Speaker 2: I'll like have to just do things a certain way
Speaker 2: and stick to that routine as best I possibly can.
Speaker 2: Before we start talking about these quarterback prospects in this
Speaker 2: draft class, I wanted to ask you are you getting
Speaker 2: any sleep this month?
Speaker 3: I imagine for you.
Speaker 2: I know you're a father of two beautiful girls. With
Speaker 2: the month of April ramping up the draft process, do
Speaker 2: you sleep at all during April?
Speaker 4: No, not at all.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know this as being the
Speaker 1: father of toddlers, kind of have to keep one eye
Speaker 1: open when you do go to sleep, just because there's
Speaker 1: draft and news that happened all different times of the
Speaker 1: night and during the day. So it's kind of like
Speaker 1: the lead up to Christmas. And that's what I compared
Speaker 1: when I talk to everybody. So Christmas is always on
Speaker 1: the twenty fifth. Then the draft is on the twenty
Speaker 1: fifth this year, so once that month of December hits,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the lead up to Christmas. For me.
Speaker 3: Well, I can't wait for it either.
Speaker 2: And we have Jordan on the podcast at the scouting
Speaker 2: Combine to give you kind of a Dolphins overview. But
Speaker 2: today I wanted to ask Jordan on the podcast to
Speaker 2: talk about the quarterback class because white Frankly, Jordan, we
Speaker 2: don't spend much time on that here, which I think
Speaker 2: is a very beneficial place for an organization to be in.
Speaker 3: I remember for a long time for the Dolphins.
Speaker 2: Every year you had to examine all the quarterbacks and
Speaker 2: I review all options because since Marino had retired, they
Speaker 2: didn't have one for a long time. But now we
Speaker 2: do have a pretty good guy into a tongue by Lowis.
Speaker 2: I wanted to start here and ask you a general
Speaker 2: a couple of general philosophy questions about just how you
Speaker 2: viewed scouting and also a very intricate question about this
Speaker 2: year's class and what I want to go to here
Speaker 2: is kind of a two part question, but I'll start
Speaker 2: with this. I wanted to ask you who is the
Speaker 2: best anticipatory thrower going back to tow a tongue bai
Speaker 2: looa in this year's class, Like who do you think
Speaker 2: it is? Because in correct me if I'm wrong here, but
Speaker 2: when I watch the tape on a lot of these guys,
Speaker 2: a lot of the throwers will see it and then
Speaker 2: rip it. I'm curious if you think that's accurate. And
Speaker 2: who do you think is the best in playing on
Speaker 2: time and in rhythm in this year's quarterback class overall?
Speaker 1: I actually would say Bo Nicks of Oregon for this question,
Speaker 1: just because of all the guys who I thought was
Speaker 1: the most decisive and then also attaching what I call
Speaker 1: their eyes to their feet, so everything moving in motion
Speaker 1: and in rhythm. I would go with bow Knigs just
Speaker 1: because everything is just so easy for him, especially in
Speaker 1: the shorts of intermediate areas.
Speaker 4: And he's really polished.
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy at a seventy seven percent completion
Speaker 1: percentage last year, which was the tops in the country.
Speaker 1: He has a lot of experience too. I think that's
Speaker 1: another fact of that he has over every other college
Speaker 1: quarterback or quarterback coming out in this just class. He
Speaker 1: plays sixty one career games, which is a lot retal quarterback.
Speaker 1: That is a wealth of experience for a college quarterback,
Speaker 1: something that we have never seen before. As far as
Speaker 1: that meeting, you're that high number of starts, and he's
Speaker 1: a player that's really reinvented himself. When he first started
Speaker 1: his career at Auburn, a lot of people rolled him
Speaker 1: off after that, and then he goes to Oregon and
Speaker 1: he looks like a completely different player.
Speaker 2: Now that's really interesting because and this is a fall
Speaker 2: up to the first part of the two part questions.
Speaker 2: So forgive me for getting off off the rails already here,
Speaker 2: but you know, I see these mock drafts and should
Speaker 2: buy him you consider a bow Nix or a Michael Pennox,
Speaker 2: And I keep thinking to myself, like, you know, Tua
Speaker 2: came out and he was twenty one years old, and
Speaker 2: these guys are twenty three, twenty four years old. They're
Speaker 2: going to be that age come this summer. I'm curious
Speaker 2: is that a knock on prospects that have played that
Speaker 2: many games in college? Like you mentioned that he ranmited
Speaker 2: this game, But is there a sense in scouts minds
Speaker 2: that sometimes like he should dominate these twenty year olds
Speaker 2: because he's twenty three, twenty four year olds? Like how
Speaker 2: does the age play into Michael Pennox and both next
Speaker 2: as value?
Speaker 1: I actually get that question a lot, and I've asked
Speaker 1: general managers, I've asked executives and people that actually work
Speaker 1: inside of the league. And the only time age becomes
Speaker 1: a bad thing, and usually it's called a red flag
Speaker 1: I'm on team's draft board, is when they're turning twenty
Speaker 1: five going into their rookie season. So as long as
Speaker 1: they're not twenty five going into their rookie season, it's
Speaker 1: not considered red flag. Now, I haven't talked to every
Speaker 1: team in the league. Every team is going to be
Speaker 1: different based on how.
Speaker 4: They view it.
Speaker 1: But the teams that I have talked to, the only
Speaker 1: time they usually red flag of prospect for their ages
Speaker 1: when they turning twenty five going into their rookie season.
Speaker 1: And I've never seen experience being bad thing, and not
Speaker 1: just talking about football but in life in general. The
Speaker 1: more experience that you can get, the more reps that
Speaker 1: you can get in college, I've always seen that as
Speaker 1: a valuable thing, just because what you always worry about
Speaker 1: with these young guys, whether they're twenty one or twenty
Speaker 1: four entering in their first year in the NFL, is
Speaker 1: how are they going to adjust to the speed of
Speaker 1: the game. Well, the more experience that you have, the
Speaker 1: more of those in game reps that you have is better.
Speaker 1: It's got a better prepare you for the NFL game. Now,
Speaker 1: everybody is different, everybody has different slopes as far as
Speaker 1: how long it takes to adjust for the speed of
Speaker 1: the game. But those reps, they definitely are significant, especially
Speaker 1: you have some guys like a bow Knicks that may
Speaker 1: have been in a different system or maybe I've just
Speaker 1: not been up to par done the earlier years of
Speaker 1: their career, but the back end of their career thinks
Speaker 1: click for them, So that's not always what you want
Speaker 1: to see. When did it click for these prospects, Sometimes
Speaker 1: with in their fresh run of the sophomore season, then
Speaker 1: they go on to finish their career strong, or other
Speaker 1: times there's like a Joe Burrow that had a monumental leaper,
Speaker 1: even a Jayden Daniels that had a monumental leap during
Speaker 1: their final season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you know Zach Wilson, Trey Lance would
Speaker 2: love to have had two more years of college utic
Speaker 2: experience to get themselves better prepared for the NFL, because
Speaker 2: when you don't work out early in the NFL, you
Speaker 2: take the kind of that backup role and you have
Speaker 2: to work your way back in the way like Baker
Speaker 2: Mayfield did for us, and so very fascinating stuff, and
Speaker 2: that kind of provides a good segue into my next question,
Speaker 2: which is the original part two of the first question.
Speaker 2: I was curious again your philosophical thought here because to
Speaker 2: that point about Zach Wilson our Trey Lance, you can
Speaker 2: have all the traits you want in the world. And
Speaker 2: this goes back to the anticipation anticipation question as well.
Speaker 2: But if you can't see it, you just can't play.
Speaker 2: Like I remember Josh Rosen down here in training camp, preseason,
Speaker 2: regular season. It was the same every time. It was
Speaker 2: just late, late, late, and so it didn't work out
Speaker 2: for him. So my question is, how do NFL scouts
Speaker 2: approach a player who has all this physical talent but
Speaker 2: we haven't really seen them, you know, for lack of
Speaker 2: our term, actually play the quarterback position. Does that make sense? Like,
Speaker 2: how would we how should a scout? How should we
Speaker 2: scout a traitsy quarterback without some of the polish for instance,
Speaker 2: like you talked about there, like your top of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty class tu had that polish, right Burrow the end
Speaker 2: of the year, at the end of his career had
Speaker 2: that polish. How do you view these quarterbacks that have
Speaker 2: that high end talent but the polish isn't there yet.
Speaker 1: That's a really good question. How much time do we
Speaker 1: have as long as you want brothers? There's so many
Speaker 1: layers to this question. I ultimately think it comes down
Speaker 1: to patients with development and then just the situation that
Speaker 1: they're entering, and a lot of times what we see
Speaker 1: with the young quarterbacks is that they're getting rushed into
Speaker 1: a lot of situations and they're not ready. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you have a plus physical talent or
Speaker 1: physical traits across the board. If you don't have the
Speaker 1: proper development and the proper infrastructure and surroundings, you could
Speaker 1: attend somewhat ruin that quarterback. And that's not to say
Speaker 1: the forty nine is ruined Trey Lance or the Jets
Speaker 1: ruined Zach Wilson, but I just don't think they were
Speaker 1: ready when they were rushed into action or when they
Speaker 1: had to go into the game, just because those lack
Speaker 1: of reps and then also just the impatience with their development.
Speaker 1: We've seen this with Mac Jones a little bit too
Speaker 1: do in their earlier parts of his career, where he
Speaker 1: had I think a decent rookie season and then after
Speaker 1: that the infrastructure around it, they just weren't able to
Speaker 1: build it up for him. So a lot of it
Speaker 1: is tomline as far as with coaches and gms, how
Speaker 1: long do they have to be patient with those quarterbacks
Speaker 1: and also what is the developmental curve or.
Speaker 4: Circumstances that they're entering into.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times with the NFL teams, they
Speaker 1: just don't have the patience all the time to develop
Speaker 1: those guys. So if you invest that time in your
Speaker 1: patient with those guys, you really could.
Speaker 4: Reap the fruits of your labor.
Speaker 1: And a great example of that is Austin Jackson, who's
Speaker 1: already on the roster right now, just because you have
Speaker 1: to have that patience, and not just talking about Austin,
Speaker 1: but just in general of where they were patient with him.
Speaker 1: He was I believe he was drafted at twenty or
Speaker 1: twenty one years old, was labeled as raw as far
Speaker 1: as a pass protector, but run blocking was another area
Speaker 1: of where he needed to improve. But those reps and
Speaker 1: just that patience with him and those in game reps
Speaker 1: were so valuable of where he ends up and he
Speaker 1: goes on to be a solid starter for the Dolphins now.
Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of having patience with them,
Speaker 1: not rushing their development. But everybody isn't able to benefit
Speaker 1: from that, just because there's a different timeline as far
Speaker 1: as the leash, as far as these coaches and these
Speaker 1: gms are on, So there's a lot of times where
Speaker 1: they feel pressure to where they have to rush those
Speaker 1: guys into action.
Speaker 2: There's an interesting dynamic there among those two quarterbacks, Lance
Speaker 2: and Zach Wilson, and also Austin Jackson, because I was
Speaker 2: thinking about this as you're answering that question. Those quarterbacks
Speaker 2: both were part of like the pandemic era quarterbacks, right,
Speaker 2: They had a year that was abbreviated because of the
Speaker 2: pandemic that cost them games and starts and valuable experience,
Speaker 2: especially in the case of Trey Lance who had his
Speaker 2: entire season wiped out that year. And for Austin Jackson
Speaker 2: missed a big chunk of his career because of the
Speaker 2: bone marrow transplant with his sister. So it makes sense
Speaker 2: that these guys missing those college reps maybe takes a
Speaker 2: little bit longer to develop into the pro game. Jordan Reid,
Speaker 2: ESPN my guest today. I have another two part question
Speaker 2: for you. Jordan's what I'm doing. You're on the podcast
Speaker 2: today apparently, but I want to let you know ahead
Speaker 2: of time because you can answer it as you see
Speaker 2: fit with both questions posts. So my question at the
Speaker 2: top is how you stack this class. Everyone has their
Speaker 2: own rankings top five or however far you want to go.
Speaker 2: But I'm also wondering who you think is that fifth
Speaker 2: quarterback assuming you do have Williams, Daniels, May and McCarthy's
Speaker 2: your top four, maybe you don't, But who is that
Speaker 2: fifth quarterback? And what's the range where that quarterback might
Speaker 2: come off the board after those first four?
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's between two guys.
Speaker 1: We've already touched on one already in both Nicks of Oregon,
Speaker 1: who had a magical season last year, and then also
Speaker 1: Michael pennockx Junior of Washington who's had a really good
Speaker 1: past two seasons after facing a ton of adversity during
Speaker 1: his first four years of his career while he was
Speaker 1: at Indiana before coming over to Washington.
Speaker 4: It's tough to get a gauged on where those guys
Speaker 4: are going to go, just.
Speaker 1: Because there's so many mixed opinions about him, factoring in
Speaker 1: the age, and then also the injury concerns and the
Speaker 1: mobility with Pennix, and then also just how much left
Speaker 1: is there to uncover with the development of bo Nicks.
Speaker 1: That's a big question mark about him. Has he really
Speaker 1: it is silling as far as who he's going to
Speaker 1: be on the next level, and then how much how
Speaker 1: much further does he have left to go as far
Speaker 1: as how much left is left to uncovered with his development.
Speaker 1: So that's the big question mark about both of those
Speaker 1: two guys right now. But depending on who you ask,
Speaker 1: there's some people that believe Knicks could go as high
Speaker 1: as twelve to the Broncos, while there's some other people
Speaker 1: that are a little bit more comfortable with him in
Speaker 1: the back end of the first round or the early
Speaker 1: second round. I have him as an early second round
Speaker 1: pick right now, as well as Pinnis. I have both
Speaker 1: of those guys as early twos. But also there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that the medical situation with Pennix came back.
Speaker 1: He came back with a clean bill of health and
Speaker 1: he didn't receive any red flash or anything like that.
Speaker 1: For those of you that don't know, he's at two
Speaker 1: ACL surgeries and then also two shoulder operations as well,
Speaker 1: so that's why he missed those first four seasons when
Speaker 1: he was at Indiana, and then last the last two
Speaker 1: years at Washington. He's basically been healthy, So we do
Speaker 1: have to give him credit for that. You saw the
Speaker 1: high end traits with Pinnix in that Texas game. That
Speaker 1: really was a lot of people's introduction to Michael Pennocks.
Speaker 1: But then we saw the opposite end of the spectrum
Speaker 1: with him against Michigan of where you saw some of
Speaker 1: those glaring weaknesses come out with him. So it's going
Speaker 1: to be really interesting to see where they do end
Speaker 1: up going. But I feel comfortable with four guys going
Speaker 1: in the first round right now, with those other two
Speaker 1: guys being toss ups right now?
Speaker 2: Do you go Williams and then how do you stack
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you go Williams first. How do you stack
Speaker 2: May and Daniels and McCarthy.
Speaker 1: So I have it Williams, May, Daniels, and then McCarthy
Speaker 1: after that, and you know that quarterback too. Discussion as
Speaker 1: far as what Washington is going to do, it's going
Speaker 1: to be really interesting, just because I like putting myself
Speaker 1: in the shoes of the general manager as well as
Speaker 1: the head coach when there's debates about a prospect. And
Speaker 1: I went back and forth a million times with myself
Speaker 1: and even my colleagues about who they're going to predict
Speaker 1: as far as who's going to be the second pick
Speaker 1: right now, and I just go back to the dan
Speaker 1: Quinn success with Matt Ryan and their.
Speaker 4: Super Bowl run before they ultimately fell short. Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: He's had experience with Dak Prescott, and then Adam Peters
Speaker 1: has had experience with Brod Peridy and then also Jimmy Garoppolo.
Speaker 4: So those guys are more in the mold of Drake May.
Speaker 1: Drake May is a little bit more mobile than all
Speaker 1: those guys, but as far as the prototypical pocket passers
Speaker 1: that are consistent with winning inside of it and then
Speaker 1: also have those A level traits that we talked about
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier, So that makes me favor that
Speaker 1: they could go May.
Speaker 4: But also putting myself in Dan.
Speaker 1: Quinn's shoes as a former defensive coordinator, which quarterback would
Speaker 1: give you the most trouble when you're game planning for
Speaker 1: those types of guys, And I just go back to
Speaker 1: Jayden and Daniels potentially being more of a headache from
Speaker 1: a game planning standpoint, just because the added in mobility
Speaker 1: and then just his improved pocket patients from inside of
Speaker 1: the pocket, So it could go either way.
Speaker 4: I just went back and forth with it right there.
Speaker 1: So it is a really really tough decision decision, but
Speaker 1: I do have May ranked slightly higher than Daniels right now.
Speaker 3: Well, That's why I wanted to have you Ax.
Speaker 2: I love the level of nuance of your show for
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what teams might prefer that way.
Speaker 2: And my last question before my final Dolphins quarterback question
Speaker 2: here is just real quick with with Jayden Daniels, like
Speaker 2: that real of him taking big hits at his size,
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of alarming. Do do teams are they
Speaker 2: are teams worried about that? Are they going to teach
Speaker 2: you ab how to play the game differently? Because I
Speaker 2: can't imagine he survives taking hits like that at the
Speaker 2: next level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he has to learn, and I just
Speaker 1: think it's a matter of his competitive desire just trying
Speaker 1: to get every single yard on every single scramble. So
Speaker 1: the big thing that Jayden has to lear and what
Speaker 1: I want to see him develop in his game is
Speaker 1: that when he does decide to run, he's tucking it
Speaker 1: to become a runner automatically. He's not looking down the
Speaker 1: field to see which defenders engaged on him and they're
Speaker 1: running up to him and they're leaving his guys wide
Speaker 1: open just because on tape and you see there's plenty
Speaker 1: of times with him when he touched the ball to run,
Speaker 1: his eyes dropped down immediately and he touched the ball,
Speaker 1: and he immediately becomes a runner no matter what. So
Speaker 1: the next layer to uncover of his game is running
Speaker 1: to make plays as a passer.
Speaker 4: That's where I think he becomes really really dangerous.
Speaker 1: And this is something that Lamar Jackson also added into
Speaker 1: his game a couple of years ago of where he
Speaker 1: became really lethal just because you don't know when he
Speaker 1: touched the ball.
Speaker 4: He could reset and reset his eyes and reset his feet.
Speaker 1: To become a passer now as well once the defense
Speaker 1: engages on him. So not only does Jaydon Dames have
Speaker 1: to learn to slide or get out of bounds and
Speaker 1: protect himself, but also there's some times of where you
Speaker 1: can indicate that you are a runner, but also go
Speaker 1: ahead and reset, get your eyes up and become a
Speaker 1: passer because there's so many guys that are open just
Speaker 1: because there everybody in the stadium has you circled when
Speaker 1: you tuck to run the ball. But once he resets
Speaker 1: his eyes and he becomes a passer once again. After that,
Speaker 1: that's when he becomes really really dangerous and unpredictable. Once
Speaker 1: he toucks the ball.
Speaker 2: And those sam LA football players can typically be the
Speaker 2: ones that's the spring, the big one, the big touchdown,
Speaker 2: the changes the game will go ahead and close. Here
Speaker 2: in a similar vein that we opened with, because you
Speaker 2: and Matt Miller just published a really cool dual article
Speaker 2: on ESPN Plus where you guys alternate landing spots for
Speaker 2: the quarterbacks throughout the entire class, not just the first round,
Speaker 2: all seven rounds, and again never asserting the draft. If
Speaker 2: you try to assume something's gonna happen, you're probably gonna
Speaker 2: be wrong. But I do feel pretty confident saying the
Speaker 2: quarterback is probably off the menu for Miami at twenty
Speaker 2: one fifty five and the next pick is not until
Speaker 2: one fifty eight in the fifth round. Jordan, I have
Speaker 2: another two part question for you. Give me a quarterback
Speaker 2: you like in that range, and the second part is
Speaker 2: bonus points. If there's a guy that you think fits
Speaker 2: that Mike McDaniel, the Kyle Shanahan, the Matt Lafleur, the
Speaker 2: Sean McVay who fits this system the best as a
Speaker 2: potential developmental quarterback.
Speaker 1: Well, one I think they're gonna be big fans of
Speaker 1: is Michael Pratt of TWU Lane. He had a lot
Speaker 1: of buzz coming into the year, but he battles some
Speaker 1: injuries last season and scouts really hated that he missed
Speaker 1: that Old Miss game. I believe it was their second
Speaker 1: game of the season. A lot of evaluators had that
Speaker 1: one circled as what I call a resume game for him,
Speaker 1: just to see how he would play against an SEC opponent.
Speaker 1: But he unfortunately missed that game. But if you go
Speaker 1: back and watch the USC tape a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: he was phenomenal in that game. And he's a prototypical
Speaker 1: pocket passer about a six three, two hundred and fifteen pounds.
Speaker 1: Ken really does a really good job but decisive of
Speaker 1: being decisive from the pocket, really accurate. But he's just
Speaker 1: not a mobile guy at all. So being in Mike
Speaker 1: McDaniel's system, in a system that really puts an emphasis
Speaker 1: on the middle of the field, RPO, some play action
Speaker 1: here and there, I think Prat could really do well
Speaker 1: in that type of scheme.
Speaker 4: And not saying he's going to turn.
Speaker 1: Into this guy, but it really reminds me of Kirk
Speaker 1: Cousins when he was coming out of Michigan State.
Speaker 4: Kirk ended up being a fourth round selection.
Speaker 1: I think Pratt could go somewhere in that fourth or
Speaker 1: fifth round range that could end up out playing his
Speaker 1: draft spot down the road.
Speaker 2: Really really good stuff. Jordan Reid ESPN. You can find
Speaker 2: his work there. Check out that story on ESPN plus Jordan.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Was always at Jordan Underscore read on social and where
Speaker 2: you're gonna be on Draft night?
Speaker 3: Man, You're going to be in Detroit, Rock City.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll be in Detroit.
Speaker 1: I'm getting there a day early this year so i
Speaker 1: can get settled in and just focus on draft, on
Speaker 1: my draft board and studying and seeing how it all
Speaker 1: turns out. I'm excited to see how it all shakes out.
Speaker 3: Appreciate you man, You're the best. Thank you, Jordan.
Speaker 4: Thanks as always, Travis.
Speaker 2: And the way he goes always good stuff there with
Speaker 2: Jordan Reid from ESPN. We will be doing these every
Speaker 2: episode as we go along here, getting you guys ready
Speaker 2: for the draft, which now is just a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks away. I think it's what fifteen days as of
Speaker 2: this podcast coming out away from the twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: NFL Draft, our first first round draft pick in three
Speaker 2: years as well, assuming we stay in that spot. We'll
Speaker 2: find out what happens come draft night, all right before
Speaker 2: we get out of here. Masters this week again, right,
Speaker 2: one of the best weekends of the year for the
Speaker 2: golf fan. I'm taking Jordan Speith. I know it's probably
Speaker 2: a bad pick, but he's kind of my favorite to
Speaker 2: watch because my friends always call me the Jordan Speath
Speaker 2: of our local golf troupe here in that I'm a
Speaker 2: bit of a head case. If I hit a couple
Speaker 2: of bad shots, I've never played golf again. If I
Speaker 2: hit back to back birdies or bars, I'm probably gonna
Speaker 2: make the tour. So Jordan Speith, I side with Jordan
Speaker 2: Speith and the mental gymnastics and up and downs that
Speaker 2: he has throughout the course of a given round. Cannot
Speaker 2: wait to watch that tournament. Also, the Premier Card coming
Speaker 2: out here soon. If you guys are South Florida based
Speaker 2: and you're a golfer, let me know because my Premier
Speaker 2: Card troop, which is get you good green fees, cheap
Speaker 2: green fees to all the nice courses in South Florida,
Speaker 2: one of my guys in the troop is no longer
Speaker 2: part of that troop, and so I need more people
Speaker 2: to play golf with to maximize the amount of golf that
Speaker 2: I want to play. So, if you are a golfer
Speaker 2: in South Florida with the premier card, get at me
Speaker 2: in the meantime, that is going to be my time.
Speaker 2: You all, please be sure to subscribe to the podcast,
Speaker 2: leave it to writing, leave us a review, follow me
Speaker 2: on social at Winkle NFL. The team at Miami Dolphins.
Speaker 2: Check out the fish Tank Podcast with Seth and Jews
Speaker 2: and Nolan Cala. Episode just put up yesterday. Very good
Speaker 2: stuff there from those guys. Check out the YouTube channel
Speaker 2: for all the free agent chats, media Availabilities Dolphins Today,
Speaker 2: which Yo Boy is hosting for the first time in
Speaker 2: my career. You don't want to miss that.
Speaker 3: Also Miami Dolphins dot com.
Speaker 2: Until next time, Fin's up, Carolina, Cameron Daddy, He's coming home.