1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, will you be cooerat with police? 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: With her attorney right beside her, Michelle Traconas kept quiet 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: while turning herself into State police this afternoons anything about 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: the new Just like her boyfriend Photus Dulos, who was 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: arrested yesterday, Traconaz is also now facing an additional charge 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: of tampering with evidence. Remember that Michelle is presumed innocent, 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: and she should be. We're prepared to let judgment in 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: this case rest on a jury's hands. According to the 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: arrest warrant police released yesterday, investigators found a blood like 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: substance containing Jennifer's DNA inside the work truck they say 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Photus Dulos drove to New Canaan the day Jennifer disappeared. 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: Photus and Michelle were later captured on surveillance cameras at 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: an Avon carwash getting that same truck detailed. When questioned 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: by detectives as to why Dulos would need to have 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: the truck clean shortly after his estranged wife's disappearance, Raconis 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: allegedly replied, quote, well, obviously, all the evidence says, because 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: you showed me the picture of the blood in the door. 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: It's because the body of Jennifer at some point was 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: in there. This morning on the Vinie Penn Project a 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: nine to sixty w ELI, Norm Pattis, who was representing 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: Fotus Dulos, had this to say, we were somewhat surprised 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: by some of the allegations. It appears that his girlfriend 23 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: has changed her tone yeah to the police and is 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: now recanting on the alibi, which we're stunned by. We 25 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: don't know what leverage the state used against her to 26 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: get her to change your testimony, and we'll find out now. 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: In a statement this afternoon, Pattis added, quote, our hearts 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: go out to mister Konis. We are confident that she will, 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: in the end tell the truth at trial. The state 30 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: is a terrifying enemy, but a clean conscious is a 31 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: powerful ally. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank 32 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: you for being with us. You are listening to our 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: friend I at w FSB. Matt McFarland, the husband of 34 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: a missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, quote is 35 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: in a fight for his life as damning new evidence 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: stack up against him. In the last hours. His girlfriend, 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: his lover, Michelle Traconis is arrested again. Everybody, thank you 38 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: for being with us today on crime Stories. Let's go 39 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: straight out to Alexis to Regis Chut with Radar Online 40 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: dot Com. Alexis, I want to start off with, I'm 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: nine one than Yeah, I'm worried about my wife and 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: kids because they left to go to New York and 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: I haven't been able to get in touch with. Okay, 44 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: where they were run to York? What's the license late 45 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: on the car? What's the license late on the car? I? Okay, 46 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: what's who's the car registered to? My wife's name is 47 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: Jennifer dulus Now there you hear, Alexis to Reschut Fotus Dulos. 48 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: Now this is the day before his wife files for divorce. 49 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: That was twenty seventeen. Fast forward, Jennifer Doolas drops her 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: children off at a Ritzy's school and the drop offline. 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: She drives away like she always does every weekday morning, 52 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: but she starts missing appointments starting around eleven am. Her 53 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 1: car found abandoned, her SUV found abandoned. Bring me up 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: to day. The most recent thing that has happened is 55 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: that Fordyce's girlfriend was arrested again in the case. Police 56 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: have said they have even more evidence that she was 57 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: tampering from the beginning. She and Fordyce were arrested together 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: very soon after Jennifer went missing, the two of them together, 59 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: because there is video of the two of them all 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: around town after Jennifer went missing, and police believe that 61 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: these videos show that they are dropping bags of bloody clothes, 62 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: possibly even body parts of Jennifer in thirty different places 63 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: around town. And this crime. He said she dropped that 64 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: Jennifer dropped the kids off in the morning at school. 65 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: She did. It was about eight o'clock in the morning. 66 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: All five for children, two sets of twins were dropped off. 67 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: They believe that this crime is committed very quickly in 68 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: the house. It's amazing that there are twenty to thirty 69 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: locations where police have found bloody sponges and clothing in 70 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: the last hours. For those of you just joining us 71 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: here at crime Stories. The girlfriend Jennifer Dulos, the missing 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: Connecticut mom of five, the girlfriend of her husband Fotus Dulos, 73 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: has been arrested not on murdered, not on kidnapping, but 74 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: on tampering with evidence charges. That really tells me a 75 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: lot because Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense attorney. They're 76 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: not arresting the next door neighbor. They're not arresting the 77 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: pizza delivery guy for tampering with evidence. They keep arresting. 78 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: This is the second time they've arrested the husband, Fotus 79 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: Dulos and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, for tampering with evidence. 80 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: What does that tell you, Daryl Cohen, It tells me 81 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: they are right around the corner from arresting them for murder. 82 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: The more they push them, the more they just squeeze them, 83 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: the more they're hoping that they're going to give up. 84 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: Where she is, what happened to her, and who did it? 85 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: They must be waiting on a body. But can Michelle Traconis, 86 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: the lover of Jennifer's husband, Fotus Dulos, provide that Take 87 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at ABC. This is wit Johnson. 88 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: Jennifer disappeared on May twenty fourth after dropping her kids 89 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: off at school. Authorities believe she was the victim of 90 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: a serious physical assault, discovering bloodstains in her garage. A 91 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: couple was locked in a vicious divorce and custody battle 92 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: Jennifer claiming in twenty seventeen court documents, I am terrified 93 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: for my family's safety. He is dangerous. Fotis Dulos strongly 94 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: denying any threatening behavior. Fotis and his living girlfriend, Michelle 95 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: Traconis both out on bail after pleading not guilty to 96 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: charges of evidence tampering and hindering prosecution. According to arrest warrants, 97 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: surveillance video from the night Jennifer went missing captured two 98 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: people police suspect to be Fotis and Traconis, tossing bags, 99 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: including a bloodstained sponge, into trash cans around Hartford, Connecticut. 100 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: I don't get it, Alexis terres Shuck, investigative reporter with 101 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: Radar Online dot Com. If they cops really have Fotus Duelos, 102 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: the estranged husband and Michelle Traconis his lover on video 103 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: throwing out items and they follow them video to video 104 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: to video, different trash cans, and I guess dumps and 105 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: they pull out the missing mom's bloody clothes and bloody 106 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: sponges that match up to DNA Jennifer Dulos. Why no, Orest, 107 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: What do you know, Alexis? There is no body Jennifer's 108 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: body has never been found and the two, these two 109 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: together have been silent despite the fact there is apparently 110 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: that Michelle has changed her alibi too. She originally said 111 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: the chain Votus took a shower together on that morning 112 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: that Jennifer went missing, saying they were together, they took 113 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: a shower, and then she backtracked and she changed her story. 114 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,119 Speaker 1: She said, Okay, we didn't take a shower, that's not true, 115 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: but she didn't say I know that Fotus was with 116 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer and he killed her. And here's where the body is. 117 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: They don't have a body. They want a body, so 118 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: that this is an iron cloud kick. Oh wait, wait, 119 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: wait wait, so Alexis Terres Chuck, you know you've covered 120 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: a lot of murder investigations. But Karen Smith joining me, 121 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting, Karen Smith, we've 122 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: done a lot of cases together. So what Fotus Dulos, 123 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: if he's guilty, is going to get a gold star 124 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: or extra credit because he managed to get rid of 125 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: the body where we can't find it. So we're just 126 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: not going to be a prosecution. So what every murderer 127 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: out there knows? Oh, just let me dismember the body 128 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: or stick it in acid, or somehow hide it forever 129 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: where it can't be found, and I'll never be prosecuted. 130 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: So that's the state of affairs Care and Smith. What 131 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: can we do about it? We can do a lot 132 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: about it. Nancy, Listen, you and I both know it's 133 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: better to have the body to go to prosecution, but 134 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: you don't have to have it. There is so much 135 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: evidence pointing to these two people at this point. You 136 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: have blood in Jennifer Dulos's garage in a number of 137 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: different places, and we're going to get to that because 138 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: that is key. You have bloody clothing, blood on the bags, 139 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: you have bloody sponges and mops. You have blood inside 140 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: of a vehicle that was used apparently to transport the body. Listen, 141 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: this evidence is not just circumstantial, it is directly linked 142 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: to these two people. And frankly, I don't understand why 143 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: charges haven't been brought other than the fact that they 144 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: just haven't found her body yet, and I hope they do. Tampering. 145 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: Tampering tampering the only charges we've got, but we have 146 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: insight into the knee you warrant listen to Fox sixty 147 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: one day policy. Shout your coonas said nothing as she 148 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: walked into Connecticut State Police Troop G to turn herself in. 149 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: How you guys here today? Does it have anything to 150 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: do with the August thirteenth interview in which police say 151 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: you lied? Accompanied by her attorney Andrew Bowman, Traconis talked 152 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: to police for the first time since August thirteenth, a date. 153 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: State Police say in a recorded interview that Traconis admits 154 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: she had not been truthful, according to her newly released 155 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: rest warrant. During the interview, she told police that she 156 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: did not physically see Photus Dulos at four Jefferson Crossing 157 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: from the time she woke at six forty am to 158 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: one thirty in the afternoon to day Jennifer Dulos was 159 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: reported missing. Previously, she had said that they were together 160 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: that morning. Police say she also told investigators that on 161 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: the afternoon of Jennifer's disappearance, she witnessed Photus cleaning the 162 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: backseat of a two thousand and one Toyota Tacoma for 163 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: what Fotus described as a coffee spill. The same Tacoma 164 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: can be seen here, and surveillance photographs parked along Lapham 165 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: Road in New Canaan that morning, the same area where 166 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: Jennifer Chevy suburban was abandoned. That last thing analyzed that 167 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: for me at Luxus Terres shut Rater online dot com 168 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: investigative reporter what did they say they saw? Said that 169 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: they saw them at a car wash, that Michelle and 170 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: Photus were at a car wash together. And the reason 171 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: she said they were at a car washes because he 172 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: told her they were cleaning up a coffee stain. And 173 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: she even said police have said that she said it 174 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: did not smell like coffee because it wasn't coffee. It 175 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: was blood Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Surveillance images showed 176 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: Dulos taking the truck to get washed and detailed his 177 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: project manager, who owns the Toyota, told investigators his boss 178 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: kept pressuring him to replace the vehicle's passenger seats. Quote 179 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: he told him to switch out the seats so that 180 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: they would not be found. His attorney says his client 181 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: did do that, but kept the old ones just in case. 182 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: My client was smart enough to know that something might 183 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: be a miss here, so he held out to the 184 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: seats and when the police came with a warrant, looking 185 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: for his truck. He handled all the seats as well. 186 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: DNA testing on a blood like substance from the seats 187 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: match Jennifer's what does he think now? I think he 188 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: thinks what everybody thinks when you see you see the evidence. 189 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: I mean, if you read this warrant, there's a strong, 190 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: circumstantial case could be made in that warrant for murder. 191 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: How bad does it seem right now? For focus? I'm concerned. 192 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: I still think he's a defendable case. I think he's 193 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: engaged in some conduct that is questionable but not necessarily 194 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: guilt guilt worthy. And that's just the kind of argument 195 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: that we've made if the case goes to trial. Welcome back. 196 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace, Jennifer Dulos, mother 197 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: of five and the wealthy enclave in New Canaan, Connecticut, 198 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: now missing for months. A strange husband, Fotus Duelos, with 199 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: his lover Michel treconis ostensibly caught on video throwing out 200 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: bloody clothes, bloody sponges at multiple stops, multiple trash kens, 201 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: twenty to thirty of them caught on surveillance, and now 202 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: in the last hours that girlfriend, the lover, Michelteras re 203 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: arrested for tampering with evidence. Now this is after she's 204 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: already admitted and given a statement reportedly that she lied 205 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: in her first statement, she cannot alibi boyfriend Fotus Dulos. 206 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: On the morning Jennifer wife Jennifer goes missing. You were 207 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: just hearing our friend at NBC four, Sarah Wallace describing 208 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: how she is no longer no longer ali bying Fotus Dulas. 209 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: Let's take an listen to the attorney. This arrest warrant 210 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: suggests Dulos took an employee's red Toyota truck to New 211 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: Caanan on May twenty fourth, and was lying in wait 212 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: for his estranged wife, Jennifer, after she dropped off the 213 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: couple's five children at school. The theory is that Dulos 214 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: drove away with her body, abandoned her Chevy Suburban nearby, 215 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: and got back in the Toyota. His girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, 216 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: who originally gave Dulos his alibi, has now backed off 217 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: that story, saying she had not been truthful. She confirmed 218 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: she was with him later when he dropped garbage bags 219 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: into trash receptacles in West Hartford, but the warrant says 220 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: she claimed to have no knowledge of what Dulos was doing. 221 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: You use strong words. You called her a lying lover. 222 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: I did you believe that? I wouldn't have said it. 223 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: If I don't. I spoke to Duelos as attorney exclusively 224 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: this afternoon. Is she flipping on him? I've read the 225 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: warrant as you have. I have no additional information. Reading 226 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: that warrant, it sure looks like it. You were just 227 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: hearing again our friend at NBC four New York reporter 228 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: Sarah Wallace, and she is speaking to Dulos's lawyer, Pattis, 229 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: who claims that lover michel Terconez is just a lying 230 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: ex lover Daryl Cohen. Here's the deal. She's in it 231 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: up to her eyeballs because if what I hear, alexis Turez, 232 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: Chuck is telling me. If I'm hearing it correctly, she 233 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: the girl fram a Shelter Konis followed in a separate vehicle. 234 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: The husband photus to Dulos to the car wash, because 235 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: apparently they're both seen on video. Isn't that what we heard, 236 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard? They're boas seen on video at the car 237 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: wash while he is detailing his project managers Toyota, Tacoma. 238 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: Then he orders the employee to get rid of the 239 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: back seat because he thinks that one of Jennifer's hairs 240 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: may be on it when police come looking. Hey, I'm 241 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: not worried. Police, come look at my beat up minivan. 242 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: Have at it. Clean up while you're in there, So 243 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't concern me. So not only does he tell 244 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen the employee to get rid of the back 245 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: seats and the employees Tacoma all right, he then insists 246 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: the employee use his Photus Dulos Porsche back seats. Now, 247 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: what would you say, Daryl Cohen if somebody comes up 248 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: and tells you don't don't you drive a fancy sports car? 249 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: The money comes and rips the back seat out of 250 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: your car and says, here, use my back seat from 251 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: my other car. First of all, just somebody saying my 252 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: other car. You know, I know a few people have 253 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: more than one car, and I'm very suspicious of them. 254 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: You better not be one. I'm Daryl Cohen. But long 255 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: story short, wouldn't that concern you? Darryl? I mean that 256 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: right there to me shows that something's very very wrong 257 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: ripping the back seat out of somebody else's Tacoma and saying, hey, 258 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: use my back seat. No, of course that guy saved 259 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: the back seat. I think it's very kind of them 260 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: to ask to use a different back seat. Of course, 261 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. There's no way that's hold on. Let me 262 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: throw a very technical legal term on you. John David 263 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: taught it to me. It's ridoculous. Okay, this is so 264 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: far fetched. It's it's crazy talk. It's ridiculous. It resembles 265 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: that remark. This is people that are guaranteed you. Now, 266 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: you need to get with it. Darryl is ridonculous like 267 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: a donkey, not doctor, like a document No, ridonculous. You 268 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: got to work on that. I mean right there. You 269 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: don't think a jury would convict him right there on that. 270 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: And he's worried. Jennifer has left a hair from when 271 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: he hugged or what are they doing in the back seat? 272 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: They're estranged. She's not hopping in the back seat with 273 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: Fotus Dulos. No, he's hopping in the back seat to 274 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: do something that he shouldn't have done. He's hopping in 275 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: the back seat, and that seat has got to disappear 276 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: because there's blood, there's DNA, there's other type of trace 277 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: evidence that's got to go, and it's got to go quick. 278 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: So you're right, it's ridomculus, another legal term, another legal term. No, Sherlock, Yeah, 279 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: he's doing something back there, did I tell you? Speaking 280 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: of Sherlock. The twins are obsessed with Sherlock Holmes, and 281 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: they tear apart every mystery possible, and this one certainly 282 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: doesn't take Sherlock Holmes. Alexa's terrest Chuck with me right 283 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Karen Smith, forensics expert and 284 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: Bare Bones Consulting founder, along with former prosecutor now gone 285 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: to the dark side, defense attorney Darryl Cohen. Hey, take 286 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: a listen to this is NBC Sarah Wallace again talking 287 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: about those back seats. Nothing good happens in the backseats. 288 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: Surveillance images showed Dulos taking the truck to get washed 289 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: and detailed. His project manager, who owns the Toyota, told 290 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: investigators his boss kept pressuring him to replace the vehicle's 291 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: passenger seats. Quote. He told him to switch out the 292 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: seats so that they would not be found. His attorney 293 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: says his client did do that, but kept the old 294 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: ones just in case. My client was smart enough to 295 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: know that something might be a miss here, so he 296 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: held out to the seats, and when the police came 297 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: with a warrant looking for his truck, he handed all 298 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: the seats as well. DNA testing on a bloodlike substance 299 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: from the seats match Jennifer's What is c think now? 300 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: I think he thinks what everybody thinks when you see 301 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: the evidence. I mean, if you read this warrant, there's 302 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: a strong, circumstantial case could be made in that war 303 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: for murder. How bad does it seem right now? For Photus, 304 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: I'm concerned. I still think he's a defendable case. I 305 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: think he's engaged in some conduct that is questionable, but 306 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: not necessarily guilt guilt worthy. Wow. Okay, back to Alexis 307 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: red shot right oar online dot Com investigative reporter. What 308 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: more do we know about the work project manager? That's 309 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: a key witness, And I really believe Cops her onto 310 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: something something very critical when Michel Chakonis, because I think 311 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: she knows more. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't 312 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: have a very good idea where the body is? And 313 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: another thing everybody wants to know online all the time, 314 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: where are the children. The children, all five of them 315 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: are with Jennifer Dulos mom in Manhattan, and the husband, 316 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: Photus Dulos, is driving her insane. The other day he 317 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: hit her with a demand to have her mentally evalue, 318 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: waited the grandma. You know what, Okay, that's a whole 319 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: other can of worms. So let's stress, Chuck, tell me 320 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: what we know. So you were right. The coworker, the 321 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: man who works with him, he was very suspicious. He 322 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: has told police from the get go. He says that 323 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: Fotus had you know, they'd switch cars and he wanted 324 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: to keep the other car, and the co workers said, no, 325 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: you have to give it back to me. And then 326 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: when he brought it to him and he said that 327 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: he needed to switch out the seeds, he knew immediately 328 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: that this was something that was very suspicious. So instead 329 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: of throwing them out or doing I think, he kept them. 330 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: He knew that this was something that the police were 331 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: going to come to him with, and they did. And 332 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: what it also does is that it sets up the 333 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: timeline to contradict the alibi that Fotus and Michelle first 334 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: have floated she, as I said, is backtracking on it, 335 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: but this is also going to contradict it because of 336 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: the co workers timing with the car. This is going 337 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: to show that Fotus had the car that Jennifer likely disappeared. 338 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: In Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The warrant show surveillance 339 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: photos of a red Toyota Tacoma that was seen in 340 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: the same area where jennifer suburban was abandoned, not long 341 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: before it pulls into eighty Mountain Springs Road at twelve 342 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: to twenty two PM. That home is owned by the 343 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: four group and has been in the sight of police investigations, 344 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: and according to the warrant, police accused Potus of taking 345 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: the truck to the car washing avon to get his 346 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: truck detailed. The worker was asked to replace the seats 347 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: and get rid of them, but that remarker kept the 348 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: originals without Fotus's knowledge and gave them the abilities to 349 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: be examined. Lab results of the seats tested positive for 350 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: Jennifer's blood. And now Fotus has already been charged with 351 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: tampering and hindering a prosecution. He's pled not guilty to 352 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: those charges and will be in court in Norwalk on 353 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: the twelve. You were just hearing more information regarding that 354 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: Toyota Tacoma. We know that there are photos in the 355 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: warrant in the area where Jennifer's abandoned suburban was found. 356 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: That Toyota Tacoma just happens to be where her abandoned 357 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: suburban is found. Photos show that Tacoma at a home 358 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: owned by Dulos's construction company. The Tacoma seats test positive 359 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: for Jennifer's blood. You were also hearing Fox sixty one 360 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: reporter at Dave Pouglisi, he just told me something I 361 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: didn't know, Alexis to investigative reporter water online dot Com. Alexis, 362 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: I did not know. He tried to keep the Tacoma 363 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: from the employee and not give it back, and when 364 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: the employee insisted, he gave it back minus the back seat. 365 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: Now did I get that right? He gave it back, 366 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: but actually asked the employee to swap out the seats, 367 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: and so he wanted the seats swapped out with a 368 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: Toyota Tacoma. Do you know what kind of cart seats? 369 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: One of them switched out with his Porsche seats, so 370 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how a Porsche back seat 371 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: fits into a Toyota to come up, but I don't 372 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: think it looks the same at all. Well, let me 373 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: ask you a question. I thought I heard you say 374 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: he photos Dulos tried to keep the Tacoma. He told 375 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: me about that because I guarantee you if if Jennifer 376 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: Dulos was in that car and her blood has been 377 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,239 Speaker 1: found on the seats, okay, he would probably if I 378 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: had killed somebody, I would go and torch the car. 379 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: I wouldn't wait for it to get stolen on a 380 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: busy street. I would torch it. I would get rid 381 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: of it. I would make it look like not that 382 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: I would ever do this, but make it look like 383 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: it was stolen, and then torch it. I didn't know 384 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: he tried to keep the car, Alexis. That's what the 385 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: employee said, that he tried to keep it, and the 386 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: employee said, no, I have to have it back at 387 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: I need to have my car back. Oh what a 388 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. 389 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: I love saying that to Jerry's I don't think he 390 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: had the same effect on Darryl Cohen. One more thing, 391 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: alexis toures check you told me, and I want you 392 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: to explain this because this is very critical that the 393 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: co worker or the employee, whichever one he is. He's 394 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: a work project manager of Dulos. Story about the vehicle 395 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: the Tacoma Torpedoes Photus Dulos first alibi explain Well, Photus 396 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: and his girlfriend are saying that they were together at 397 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: home and that they had shower ago. She changed that. 398 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: But the employee can then talk about when Photus contacted 399 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: him about the car and how he wanted to keep it, 400 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: and so he has told investigators that this is something 401 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,479 Speaker 1: that was very, very very unusual. This wasn't normally what 402 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: he would do, and that's why he wanted the car back. 403 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: He thought it was so strange that he wanted to 404 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: keep this car and then he brought it back. But 405 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: you're saying it ruined the alibi. How does that ruin 406 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: photos Dulos alibi because he said he was just home 407 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: with Jennifer, not doing anything, but it said he's out 408 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: driving this car. How do you know he was driving 409 00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: the car at the time of the alibi? I mean that, 410 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: I mean he could have just had the car parked 411 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: at home. How does that ruin the alibi because he's 412 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: then on the camera at the car wash. Ah okay, 413 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: wait all right, hold on, there you go. It's not 414 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: that photos Dulos called and wanting to keep the car. 415 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: You're telling me that the time Dulos and a shelter 416 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: Conas say there at home all loved up, they're spotted 417 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: on video cleaning out the Toyota Tacoma. Is that correct? 418 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: That's very critical of oasis? Is that right? Yes? To 419 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor and the same office where I 420 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: learned to try cases, the Fulton County District Attorney's office 421 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: in Inner City Atlanta, now defense attorney Daryl Cohen. You 422 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: know what Jerry's love, Daryl. They love video. They love video, 423 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: and when you put it to a jury, they say 424 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: they're at home and they're jammys having mimosas and waffles, 425 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: but instead they're at Quick Clean d telling the employees 426 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: Tacoma at the car wash. M. I hate to steal 427 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: from McDonald's, but I'm loving it. I Yeah, they did 428 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: a great job there. You always tell a nice lie 429 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: that video will show is a lie, as soon as 430 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: you do that, juries love it. The more video evidence, 431 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: the more DNA evidence, the more I saw it happen evidence, 432 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: the more they dig their grave even deeper. And we're 433 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: just waiting for that arrest, just waiting with bated breath. 434 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: And Michelle Tracona is the lover. Was it worth it? 435 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: Was it worth dating a married man with all the 436 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: men in the world. Yeah, I have to day a merryman. 437 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: There's that's nothing but problems. It ain't worth it. Ladies, 438 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: When Shell Tracona's dates Photos Dulos, and now she is 439 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: being brought in for a third interview a double array, 440 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: take a listen to Fox sixty one's Tony Terzi. On 441 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: August thirteenth, according to an arrest warrant released following Photos 442 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: Stulos's most recent arrest, yesterday, State police conducted their third 443 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: recorded interview with Traconis. Police say she admitted that during 444 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: her two previous interviews she lied. She allegedly told investigators 445 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: during that August interview that she had not physically seen 446 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: Photos Stulos during the morning of May twenty fourth, the 447 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: day on which Stulos's a stranged wife, Jennifer, was reported missing, 448 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: but Prior to this August interview, cops say she said 449 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: that she and Dulos had showered together that morning. Also 450 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: in August, Traconis said that on the afternoon of May 451 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: twenty fourth, she witnessed Dulos cleaning what he described as 452 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: a coffee spill inside of an employee's two thousand and 453 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,239 Speaker 1: one Toyota Tacoma, which police believe is the vehicle that 454 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: Duelos used in the commission of the supposed crime. A 455 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: shower with photos of Dulos ill. Why did I have 456 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: to hear that detail? You know, its little details like that. 457 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: Darryl co and former prosecutor now defense attorney the Atlanta jurisdiction, 458 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: they come back to bite you in the neck. A shower, 459 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: I can just see you. Think of all the bubble 460 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: bath and the SuDS and the loofah blah blah. He's 461 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: out detailing the blood out of the back seat of 462 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: his employees car. Anything but a shower. Water wasn't involved, 463 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: that's true, but it was at a car wash. Well, 464 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: the car wash was certainly giving the shower credibility. An 465 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: you were going to say that, just so you know, 466 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that. Going for 467 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: a place for the shower. The car was taking a 468 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: shower down. Why is it when you tell a lie? 469 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: You know, I love it when defense tell a lie, 470 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: But it can't just be a lie we were at home. 471 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: It has to be a really extravagant lie, rich in detail. 472 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: Like we were at home and we were having a shower, 473 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: were together. It was so romantic, and then we had 474 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: tea in the backyard. Watch the sun come. I mean, 475 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: it goes on and on. I mean, it's not just 476 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: a lie, it's a whopper, Daryl. Why do people do that? 477 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: Because they forget that when you tell a lie, you 478 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: have to remember what you said. And the more you lie, 479 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: the more you have to remember, the more you have 480 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: to concoct the story. And oh my gosh, did I 481 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: say that? Well, I guess I did. So it never works, 482 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: It just doesn't. I tell people all the time, don't 483 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: tell a lie, tell the truth. You don't don't say anything, right, Yeah, 484 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: just don't say anything, you know what, Nancy kyd bms. 485 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: That means, keep your damn big mouth shut. And if 486 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: they had kept their mouth shut, life would have been 487 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: just a little bit different. But we're going to see 488 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: a little story here, Words to Live by Daryl Cohen, 489 00:28:52,640 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: Words to Live by Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and 490 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: when questioned about the towel, Dulos used that he asked 491 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: her to throw away. Triconis admitted that the towel did 492 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: not smell of coffee. The following week, when Dulos went 493 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: to get his employee's truck detailed and washed at an 494 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: Avon car wash, Traconis initially allegedly told police he just 495 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: called her to pick him up there, but when pressed 496 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: during the August interview with surveillance photos, she admitted to 497 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: following him to the car wash, and when Traconis was 498 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: asked by investigators why she thought Dulos would be washing 499 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: the Tacoma, her reply was quote, well, obviously, all of 500 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: the evidence says because you showed me the picture of 501 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: the blood in the door, it's because the body of 502 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: Jennifer at some point was in there. Another fact we 503 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: are just learning. You are hearing right there. Fox sixty 504 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: one reporter Tony Terzi. Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of 505 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: Beer Bones Consulting, Karen, I just learned any fact. The 506 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: blood is not just on the back seat, The blood 507 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: is on the door, according to the girlfriend, and she's 508 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: recounting what she sees in police photos. That gives me 509 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: a really good idea of what happened. Explain, there is 510 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: blood everywhere, Nancy. It's not just on the door, it's 511 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: not just on the seat. It's in Jennifer Dulos's garage. 512 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: And the way police described it in the affid davit 513 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: was spatter, not just a blood scene. Spatter. Spatter doesn't 514 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: just happen. That is indicative of a violent event happening 515 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: in that garage. Not only was it on the floor, 516 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: not only was it on other surfaces. There was a 517 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: second car parked in that garage, and there was blood 518 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: spatter on that car, which tells me that either a 519 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma event or possibly a gunshot depending on 520 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: the type of that was found. That's what we're dealing 521 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: with here. So you have the garage, you have the 522 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: car in the garage, you have the Toyota Tacoma with 523 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: the seats that were removed that had blood stains on them. 524 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 1: I'd like to know the type of blood stains, how 525 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: deep it went, how large the stain was, what type 526 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: of blood stain it was. Was it spatter, was it 527 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: a pooling, was it a dripping? All of those things, 528 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: Plus you have the blood on the clothes that we're 529 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: found in trash cans and all of the other items 530 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: in there as well. So we're dealing with lots and 531 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: lots of blood and lots of different places, and every 532 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 1: single bit of it points right back to Michelter Konas 533 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: and Bodis Dulos. She'd been her watch out. She goes 534 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: to catch herself from accessory and murder charge if she 535 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: doesn't come clean and I mean totally clean. Back to you, 536 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, Beer Bugs consulting forensics expert. You have very 537 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: carefully reviewed the facts as we know them now. If 538 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: you could recount where Jennifer Dulos, a mom of five, 539 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: blood has been found. They found blood. They went to 540 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos house and they found They did DNA testing 541 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: and they found her blood in the garage of her 542 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: own rented home. They also did forensic testing in DNA 543 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: testing on blood stains found in the Toyota to come 544 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: up pick up the seats that were removed by the employee. 545 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: That blood came back to Jennifer Dulos. They did forensic 546 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: testing on Jennifer Dulos's twenty seventeen Chevy Suburban that was abandoned, 547 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: and the blood on the exterior and interior of that 548 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: vehicle came back to Jennifer Dulos. They did forensic testing 549 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: on clothing and items found in bags that were deposited 550 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: all over the place, and that blood as well, all 551 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: came back to Jennifer Dulos. They are so much evidence 552 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: in this case, it's incredible to me. You mentioned a 553 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: second car in the garage. Yeah, there was apparently another 554 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: car parked off to the side in the garage, and 555 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: they found blood stains on that car, which tells me 556 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: a violent event occurred. Nancy, blood breaks up commensurate in 557 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: size with the amount of force impacted upon it, so 558 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: it doesn't spatter, doesn't just happen. A force has to 559 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: create that, and it has to take more than one 560 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: strike for it to be created. So that tells me 561 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: and the police that a very violent event occurred in 562 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: that garage that's likely the primary crime scene. Take a 563 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: listen to CBS two's Hazel Sanchez. The warrant states the 564 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: owner of the borrowed truck went to police, telling them 565 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: fotus Dulos and his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, used his truck 566 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: on the day Jennifer Dulos disappeared and got it cleaned 567 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: five days later without his permission. He also claimed Fotus 568 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: Dulos insisted he swap out the truck's seats. The warrant 569 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: says a blood like substance was found in the truck 570 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: and when police asked Dulos's girlfriend why they had the 571 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: truck cleaned, she allegedly answered, you showed me the picture 572 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: of the blood in the door. It's because the body 573 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: of Jennifer at some point was in there. Police are 574 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: revealing new theories and evidence after Fotus Dulos, the estranged husband, 575 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: and his lover, Michel Traconis, were arrested for a second 576 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: time in connection with the disappearance of Mama five Jennifer 577 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: Dulos for a second time. In the last days, police 578 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: arrest not only Fotused Dulos, but Michelle Traconis as well. 579 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: Dulos is a luxury home builder. He was arrested at 580 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: his Farmington home. Triconis. The girlfriend turned herself into state 581 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: police in Bridgeport when she found out there's another rest 582 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: coming down. They're both free after posting bond, and they 583 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: are set to reappear in Superior Court in Stamford later 584 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: this month. Now there's a forty three page arrest affidavit 585 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: and it outlines a host of evidence in theories regarding 586 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 1: Dulos's whereabouts the day Jennifer goes missing and attempts, Police 587 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: say Dulos and Triconis made to get rid of evidence. 588 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, what happens when you help get rid 589 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: of evidence in a brutal murder? Well, I think that 590 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: we're looking at Houdini because I think we're going to 591 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: have a girlfriend that's going to change her spots and 592 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: because she's going to get a deal. She is not 593 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: going to be prosecuted for murder. If not, she's going 594 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: down with her boyfriend that they can just go have 595 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: a shower together in the state prison. Yeah, it'll be 596 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: in a nice group shower behind bars, you know. Using 597 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: surveillance video and other evidence, cop say Dulos went to 598 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: the wealthy enclave of New Canaan, and he went there 599 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: that morning while his wife Jennifer was in drop off. 600 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: They claim he was quote I'm quoting from the affidavit, 601 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: lying in wait at sixty nine Wells Lane for his 602 00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: wife to return home. The last images of her shows 603 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: Jennifer driving back home after dropping her children at school. 604 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: That was on a neighbor's security camera home surveillance video 605 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: at eight o five a m Wow. Investigators are convinced 606 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: a violent crime happened in Jennifer's home between eight oh 607 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: five and ten twenty five. Why because jennifer Chevy suburban 608 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: was seen on surveillance camera leaving the home around ten 609 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: twenty five am. We're learning all of this from the affidavit, 610 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: so they see her going in at around eight to five, 611 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: her vehicle leaving at ten twenty five. I just wonder, 612 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, if they can make out him driving the vehicle. 613 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: That's gonna take some doing, But apparently they have some 614 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: really good footage of him, not necessarily inside of that car, 615 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: but they have footage of him inside the Toyota Tacoma 616 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: at a bank, leaning out of the driver's window and 617 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: Michelle Turkonis is in the passenger seat. That video is 618 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: clear as day he was inside that Toyota. He was 619 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: at the bank getting money to pay for the car wash. 620 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: So even though they might not be able to place 621 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: his face inside of that vehicle driving away from her home. 622 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: There is so much other circumstantial evidence pointing directly to 623 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: these two. I don't know how they're going to get 624 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 1: around it. You know, I can't. I realize this. Alexis 625 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: tres chwriter online dot com when we were covering the 626 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: Sarah Stearn case and I was speaking, you know, the 627 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: team that goes Missing from New England, and her so 628 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: called best friends had murdered her to steal her mom's money. 629 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: The mom had left her about ten grand and I 630 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: found out that you could see her car coming in 631 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: and out of her house through the neighbors surveillis, but 632 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: you couldn't see who was driving it. And I'm wondering 633 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: if that's true here, Alexis. It seemed like the police, 634 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: well the police have said they believe he was driving it, 635 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: but I don't think that you can actually see who 636 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: was driving. It might be the angle of the camera 637 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: and the neighbor's house was so just you cannot see 638 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: the driver, but you can see the car. And you know, 639 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,399 Speaker 1: even if so, let's say fast forward, you know, she 640 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: never comes out of this house again, and she never 641 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: shows up anywhere else again so somebody did something bad 642 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: to her and it was most likely excellent, Well, they say, 643 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: just as you say, Alex is correctly. The affidavit says, 644 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: quote Doulos is believed to be operating Jennifer's vehicle, and 645 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: that that vehicle is carrying Jennifer's body and another of 646 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: other items associated with the cleanup which occurred in the 647 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: garage of that residence. And of course Karen Smith forensics expert, 648 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: they can look with luminol and see if there's a 649 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: cleanup of blood. Absolutely to me, it sounds like if 650 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: there was spatter, they didn't get it at all. Nanthew, 651 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: You and I know you're not going to get every 652 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: drop of blood outside of a crime scene. You're not 653 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: going to clean it all up. You're gonna miss something. 654 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 1: And somebody with a keen eye and something as simple 655 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: as a magnifying glass, we're gonna find it. I would 656 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: crack my knuckles to get inside that garage because I 657 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: would find it, and I know the police did too. 658 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, another piece of evidence we've totally overlooked. I'm 659 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: drinking from a fire hydrant here. There's too much, too fast. 660 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: Cellular data, according to the affidavit, shows Jennifer's phone moving 661 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: from Wells Lane to Lapham Road where her car was 662 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: found abandoned during that ten twenty five am time period, 663 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: which means she had her cell phone with her in 664 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: the car which she dropped her children off and it 665 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: was still in the car and her killer didn't know that, 666 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: and the cell phone traveled with the car to where 667 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: her car was abandoned. We wait as justice unfolds Nancy 668 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,