1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: we're looking at the future again. That's weird. It's like 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: we're letting our futurist flag fly again. Yeah, well we 6 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: have to. I mean that we're talking about going to 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: the edge of what's possible, and the edge of what's 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: possible generally lines up with the edge of what has 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: happened and what's going to happen in the future. So 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: I have a question for you. Yes, are you ready 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: for the neo evolution? I don't know, that's a really 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: intimidating question. Yeah, especially when I say it like that. Huh. 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: I would probably yell ya if it was like, you know, 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: like a DJ yelling it, because it sounds like the 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing you would hear, like, are you ready? Yeah? 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: Are you ready for the neo evolution? And then everybody 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: goes yeah, but yeah, are the Beatles? Yeah? Are you 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: ready for evlution? All right, so obviously we're gonna be 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: talking about evolution today, specifically new evolution as defined by 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: one guy. But before we get to that, let's talk 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: a little bit about what is evolution. Yeah, let's go 22 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: ahead and hammer this out, um. And I'm drawing from 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works own article how Evolution Works, which is 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: a great read, especially if you don't understand evolution, or 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: if you find yourself in the familiar situation of thinking 26 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: you understand something that is so talked about, but but 27 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: you're not really sure on the the finer points of it. 28 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: It lays it out really nicely, like most How Stuff 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Works articles handle a topic, but basically it breaks down 30 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: to three essential parts. First part is that it's possible 31 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: for the DNA of an organism to occasionally change or mutate, 32 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: And a mutation changes the DNA of an organism in 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: a way that affects its offspring, either immediately or several 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: generations down the line. So that's the first condition, right. 35 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: The second one, the change brought about by a mute patient, 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: is either beneficial, harmful, or neutral. I think I've hammered 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: on this before, but the whole the word de evolved 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: or devolved, like the idea that oh in a post 39 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: apocalyptic movie, people devolved in the monsters and Chud's and 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: they did not go backward. Right, there's evolution doesn't go backwards. 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: Evolution always goes forward. It's possible cases very rare. But yeah, 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: but but but evolution does. But no, evolution doesn't really 43 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: go backwards. It's like it'll it's it's altering, but it's 44 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: it's moving forward like it's well for adaptation is what 45 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: I'm talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's moving forward and adapting, 46 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: all right. So, yeah, it can be beneficial, it can 47 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: be harmful, it can be neutral. It's still evolution. If 48 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: the change is harmful, then it's unlikely that the offspring 49 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: will survive to reproduce, so the mutation dies and goes nowhere. 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: If the change is beneficial, then it's likely that the 51 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: offspring will do better than the offspring uh, then the 52 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: other offspring, and it will reproduce more and and through reproduction, 53 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: the beneficial mutation spreads and eventually becomes dominant and the 54 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: bad mutations disappear. Um all right. And the third thing 55 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: is is as mutations occur and spread over long periods 56 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: of time, they cause new species to form. So over 57 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: the course of millions of years, the process of mutation 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: and natural selection, which we cover in the first two points, 59 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: have created every single species that we have in the 60 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: world today, from the simplest bacteria to you know, elephants 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: and dogs and cats and reptiles. And yeah, yeah, I 62 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: mean we're talking about his variation, selection and heredity, right 63 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: and um and you think about it, even with us, 64 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: there are about twenty five species of hominids that came 65 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: before us, right, and we just happened to have the 66 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: ability to adapt to our environment. Um and and we 67 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: have done so pretty successfully. But there is a medical 68 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: ethicis named Harvey Fineberg. He has a talk on ted 69 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: dot com and it's called are We Ready for a 70 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: New Evolution? And he has talked about this this specific 71 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: conditions for us evolving as humans, not necessarily talking about 72 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: our animals or bacteria or anything else. Um. And he 73 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: wants to talk really about what our future might hold 74 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: in terms of evolution. He says that there are three 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: different ways we could go. Yeah, because it basically comes 76 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: down to these three key facts of evolution that we discussed, 77 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: whether or not they're still relevant in modern human culture 78 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: or if we've managed to sort of elbow them out 79 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: of the conversation. Yeah. So, um, Like, one basic idea 80 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: is if if we have through medicine managed to preserve 81 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: a lot of genes that would otherwise otherwise be selected out, 82 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: in other words, harmful mutations or or or just traits 83 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: that would that we would eventually improve upon and and 84 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: would be again elbowed out of the evolutionary conversation. Yeah, 85 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: he's talking about the possibility that we might not evolve anymore, 86 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: right because as you say, we have, we've sort of 87 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: tinkered enough that we've, um, we've sort of flatlining as 88 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: a species, right right, Um. And then he's also talking 89 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: about how we have made our environment adapt to us 90 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: rather than us adapt to it. Right. It's the idea 91 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: that it's like, oh, the world's getting hot, or let's 92 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: create air conditioning or let's you know, we even in 93 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: our more drastic, hilarious and tragic examples where we talk 94 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: about geoengineering or planet hacking, things like like like you know, 95 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: tinkering with the atmosphere to reverse global climate changes, right, right, 96 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: even with China and the Olympics, right when they were 97 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: trying to change the weather by shooting. Um was it 98 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: wasn't missiles, but it was some sort of munition up 99 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: into the air that would make it rain. So yes, 100 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: we're we're um, we're manipulating our our environment all the time, right, um. 101 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: And then uh. He also says that we're so interspersed 102 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: that there's very little isolation and populations now that would 103 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: allow for the conditions of evolution. It's kind of like 104 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: a Richie Rich scenario or something like the kid who 105 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: has everything and doesn't have to grow up and maybe 106 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: confusing involve and grow up arrested development as as sort 107 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: of yeah, I guess you know. It's Um, it's the 108 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: idea that, no, we don't have to adapt to the 109 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: world around us because the world around us doesn't touch us. 110 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: We're insulated in this bubble Umchi rich. Yeah, and it 111 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You know. It's like I'm not that smart, 112 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: but I got all this money, right, so you know, 113 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm good to go, right. And then the second thing 114 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: he talks about this, the second route we could take 115 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: is just the traditional evolution. In other words, evolution is 116 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: a juggernaut. You cannot stop it in somewhere or another. 117 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: It's going to continue. And he says, particularly if we 118 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: colonize planets, right, yeah, we're sending people to other plant 119 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: and of course we could really go off in a 120 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: tangent here. But instead we'll just say see the episode 121 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: titled the Werewolf Principle that we did about adapting humans 122 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: for space, because yeah, there's this whole idea as we 123 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: send people out to colonize distant worlds. We certainly have 124 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: the the sci fi storybook idea of terraforming planet to 125 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: make it just like Earth, which is it, which is 126 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: again ties back into that hole. Let's change an environment 127 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: to fit us, But realistically there's going to be at 128 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: least a little us changing to fit that environment, whether 129 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: we want it to happen or not. Right, And he's saying, like, 130 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, obviously if we tried to call anize Mars 131 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: for example, which you know, this is what we've been 132 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: proccupied with a lot in terms of um, you know, 133 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: science technology. Um, you know, those are the conditions. You've 134 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: got the isolation, you have this environment that is new 135 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: to us, so you know you'd have to evolve in 136 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: someone like and at the very basic level, if there 137 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: were minimum physical requirements to colonize another planet, you're automatically 138 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: selecting for those minimum requirements. Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. And 139 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: then the big one, which is obviously the one that 140 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: he's very interested in talking about is called new evolution, yes, 141 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: which we are going to get to right after this 142 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: quick break. This presentation is brought to you by Intel 143 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: sponsors of Tomorrow. All Right, we're back and we're ready 144 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: for the neo evolution. Okay, we are finally ready. Let 145 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: the evolution begin. All right? What is he talking about? 146 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: This guy? That's hard you fine, Bert. He's talking about 147 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: new evolution as being UM guided and chosen by us. 148 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: So what he's saying is that we are at a 149 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: point technologically where we can begin to tinker with our 150 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: own genes and select for ourselves, so we no longer 151 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: need this randomness. We we can sit there and say, okay, 152 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: self directed evolution, let's do this. Um. And he's even saying, 153 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: you can see this in very basic ways, where people 154 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: are choosing to have more females than males. Right because 155 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: we know we can do this, we can choose the 156 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: gender of a child. Um. And he's saying, like, let's 157 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: let's look at this in a more specific way. Let's 158 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: look at genetic changes. Let's talk about taking out diseases 159 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: like diabetes and cancer in your genes so that your 160 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: children's genes could be a better, a little bit more 161 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: fit for their environment, um they would be healthier. And 162 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: then he's talking about something called the one thousand dollar 163 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: human genome, which I think is really an interesting concept. 164 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: We all know about the Human Genome project. This was 165 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: like a twelve year project UM two point seven billion 166 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: dollars and they were able to um decode the human 167 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: genome and it's had huge implications all over the place. 168 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: But he's saying that today today you can have a 169 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: complete sequence of the three billion base payers of the 170 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: human genome for just twenty dollars in one week. I mean, 171 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: you're talking about the comparison there. And this is what 172 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: we're seeing here is that technology, just like your TV right, 173 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: becomes cheaper over the years. So what he's saying basically 174 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: is and no time at all, the costs will be 175 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: down to a thousand dollars. You can sequence your own 176 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: human genome, and then after that pretty much becomes available 177 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: to anyone. So I can go in sequence my human 178 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: genome and or my genome and see what might be 179 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: in my children's future or what I might even be 180 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: susceptible to and start to tinker with that. Now it's 181 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: or to treat that those diseases now, which is really interesting. 182 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: So this is what he's talking about in terms of 183 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: neo evolution, is that we are genetically driving the ship 184 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: here rather than nature. Right, we are taking the steering 185 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: wheel away from natural selection and all these other properties. 186 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: Not to personify evolution done in the past a little bit, 187 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: just sort of in the in the name of storytelling. Well, 188 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: you know, metaphors help us understand, right, so at least 189 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,359 Speaker 1: it does for me. Um. So he's saying that technology 190 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: can make this happen. He's talking about doctors Francis Arnold 191 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: and Willem Stemmer and the fact that they have been 192 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: able to create desirable properties in proteins and cells. And 193 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: this again is this directed evolution, um, and which they 194 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: synthetically harness the power of natural selection to evolve proteins 195 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: or rna to again create desirable properties not found in nature. 196 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: And then he points to another person named Shinya Yamanaka, 197 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: who in two thousand and seven discover how to tinker 198 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: with human skin cells so that they behave like embryonic 199 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: stem cells. This is huge because that could potentially morph 200 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: into things like heart and nerve cells. You could repel 201 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: repair yourself on a number of levels just with these 202 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: human cells and this and this, and instantly flows into 203 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: a number of ideas we've discussed before, such as the 204 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: idea of defeating death or at least putting it off 205 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: for nine centuries. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And the podcast 206 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: nine Birthday Candles, we talk about this guy named Aubrey 207 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: De Gray who is a biogenerontologist, and in a very 208 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: similar way, he's saying that it's very possible for us 209 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: to extend our lives. We can very now, very it's 210 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: very possible for a fifty year old man now to 211 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: be able to extend his life significantly, maybe even five 212 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: hundred years, if we are able to use these therapies 213 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: that are available to us. UM, So all be de Gray, Um, 214 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: Harvey Feinberg, they're talking the same thing, really, but just 215 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: different ways. Harvey Feinberg is just bringing a bigger question 216 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: into the picture, which is evolution, which is, you know, 217 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: are we going to get to the point where we 218 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: can so well manipulate our environment and ourselves that it 219 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: becomes we become the evolution, but we become the catalyst 220 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: for it, which is an interesting question, it is. And 221 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: and also just like what is the end picture, because 222 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: when when I think of us changing ourselves to meet 223 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: our own ends, I instantly think of of like people 224 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: have had tremendous amounts of plastic surgery, you know, and 225 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: and granted hopefully you would have more of an ethical 226 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: guidance system when it comes to choosing our genetic destinies 227 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: and the genetic destiny of the of the species. Well 228 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: we're talking about here is like a utopian version or 229 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: a dystopian version, right, or just a really mismanaged version 230 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: where you know, where people make sort of you know, 231 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: surface level choices that have severe ramifications. Well, I mean 232 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: the question is for me, I thought, well, okay, you 233 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: can you can probably uh steer the ship so to speak, 234 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: for a certain amount of time. But evolution, particularly in 235 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: um bacteria viruses, those are gonna going to continue to mutate. 236 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: This is what I think at least. But then I 237 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: saw that there's an article UM that was talking about 238 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: professor Floyd Romesburg and he looked at superbugs resistance to 239 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: antibotics like E. Coli, and he actually found that you 240 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: can you can stop evolution in certain strains, which is 241 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: really interesting. He was, I mean, in order to evolve, 242 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: organisms have to mutate, right, uh So they turn on 243 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: the mutation process when they're threatened with extension. We see this, 244 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: that we see this. This is why cancer cells are 245 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: so aggressive sometimes, right, because they're they're turning on this 246 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: sort of ancient pattern and trying to vanquished the disease um, 247 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: they're actually ending up splitting more and more self. Uh So, 248 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: Romesburg reason that since mutations can be turned on full force, 249 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: perhaps they could be shut off as well, and doing so, 250 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: he says, would put a halt to evolution. Wow, an 251 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: interesting prospect. Because mutation is responsible for evolution, are the 252 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: underlying causes of cancer and aging. So he says, evolution 253 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: is not an unstoppable force. There is a biochemistry underlying, 254 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: and it is subject to intervention. So I mean, can 255 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: we be all The question is could we be all 256 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: over evolution all the time in order to control every 257 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: single variation um instance out there. So I don't think 258 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: that you you could, as a species control evolution. This 259 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: is my take on it. Yeah. I mean it just 260 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: also sound like anytime we talk about controlling of evolution, 261 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: I mean we're still talking about either keeping it, keeping 262 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: things as they are, or we're basically tweaking things as 263 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: they are to become an idealized version of what they are, 264 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: like a best guest, best case scenario for for the 265 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: species as it is today, instead of allowing the continued 266 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: evolution of the species like that, you know that I 267 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: don't think we should necessarily look at ourselves as a 268 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: finished species. Well, I don't think that. Harvey Feinberg, the 269 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: guy he's talking about new evolution, is really talking about 270 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: us as as a finished species. In fact, what he's 271 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: saying is that, I mean, his his real argument is 272 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: that you could take this one hundred thousand year process 273 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: of evolution that you see in humans and boil it 274 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: down to one hundred years, and so you begin to 275 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: select for traits like you could have the fast twitch 276 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: muscle if you wanted to, and your child which would 277 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: allow you to run faster and longer. Um that there 278 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: are certain things that we can twinker tinker with, But 279 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: the problem for me becomes the question of like are 280 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: we talking about trans humanism or are we talking about eugenics? 281 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: Um it can get a little dark, indeed, And I 282 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: mean also it's like, I like I think of things 283 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: like like what if the next phase of actual evolution 284 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: would be the the consciousness, uh, the illusion of consciousness 285 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: fades away. Then you know, then what are we doing 286 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: by preventing that? Maybe that we would be better off 287 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: if that was allowed to take place. But of course 288 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: we've talked about I mean, if you're saying the illusion 289 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: of conscious this is what has driven us quite a 290 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: bit species, right, because we always need a story, um, 291 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: and there's this the mystery, right right. So yeah, so 292 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: maybe it's preventing us from from just turning into smoke. Yes, 293 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: from on a semantic level anyway, Um, yeah, I mean, 294 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: and I mean a lot of the utopian and dystopian 295 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: ideas pretty much speak for themselves, like the idea of 296 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: us becoming uh, you know, twisted monsters, or or are 297 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: we becoming this perfect you know race of of idealized 298 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: twenty one century humans, right, we'll become just um, taller 299 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: and nicer. Yeah, it's a possibility. I instantly think to 300 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: the work works of both Richard K. Morgan and Ian 301 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: and Banks. They both have sci fi stores in which 302 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: they have individuals who, through science have virtually don't have 303 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: to worry about disease anymore. But they get bored so 304 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: it's like among the sort of uh risk taking set, 305 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: they'll they'll intentionally um get the flu just so they 306 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 1: can experience it. Almost like we're a recreational drug. Well 307 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: exactly recreational drug. It's kind of like the last high 308 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: left to them is to well, I'm going to contract 309 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: this flu and and to see what it's like flu 310 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: for fun. That's fascinating. Yeah. So, I mean there is 311 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: the the idea that that humans need, you know, we 312 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: need strife. We need strife to to feel compassion and 313 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: to and to to make us, you know, do the 314 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: things that make us great. And I'm pretty sure that 315 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: viruses are always going to be there to help us. 316 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: Without the viruses are not going to stop evolving. No, 317 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: So there's that there's that factor to consider as well. 318 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: That's right. Well, there you go. We've got some new evolution. 319 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: Are you ready for it? And are you ready for 320 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: some listener email? Yes? Well I do have some listener email. 321 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: Actually these are not emails. These are from our Facebook 322 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: page where more and more people tend to comment there, 323 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: and both methods are valid, but here're a few. Rachel 324 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: writes and says, hey, guys, I'm halfway through your podcast 325 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: you're so ain earth links so she had to stop 326 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: halfway through the contact. And I like that. And one 327 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: of you brought up the theory that we may be 328 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: living in a matrix type type world. Isn't it the 329 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: case that if at every point of our lives we 330 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: are dreaming, then the word dream becomes synonymous with reality 331 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: and we are simply playing a semantic game. For a 332 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: dream to be a dream, we have to eventually become 333 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: aware that it is a synthetic reality. So if we 334 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: live inside a giant illusion, say the matrix that we 335 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: never wake up from, isn't the matrix just plain old reality? 336 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: The question is the red one or the blue one? 337 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: Which one do you want? I forget which one he took, 338 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: but now these are these are valid questions. It's really interesting, um, 339 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: And I like the idea that someone would yeah, because 340 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: part of what we do with these episodes, I feel 341 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: like is we're stirring the imagination through science, through ponderings 342 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: about trying well. I think we're doing it, stir in 343 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: my mind and stirring these listeners mine. Um. We also 344 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: heard from Thomas. Thomas writes in to say I just 345 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: listened to the Day of the Dolphin podcast, not one 346 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: mention of Douglas Adams The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 347 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: not one exclamation point at captain by the way, I 348 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: love the podcast and it is awesome on fifteen and 349 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: I live in Texas and I listen all the time. Sweet. 350 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: Yeah that we did. Yeah, we kind of missed the 351 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: missed the boat. I'm making a Hitchhiker's Guide reference. I 352 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: love that we have younger listeners too, and they always 353 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: have really interesting insights and good critiques. Yea that my 354 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: main experience with fifteen year olds just uh through the 355 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: ones that are our listeners, and it makes me think 356 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: that all fifteen year olds are pretty smart and pretty cool. Yeah. 357 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: We also heard from Edmundo, and Edmundo writes and to 358 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: say just listen to the Math Invention or Discovery podcast, 359 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: and I was sort of surprised you didn't cover what 360 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: Dan Everett had to say about the Paraha and the 361 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: apparent difficulty in teaching them how to do basic mathematical equations. 362 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: Their language only has two numbers, one and two, but 363 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: even that is in dispute, as there is a strong 364 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: argument that they just indicate a quote small amount versus 365 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: a quote bigger amount. Is this indicative of mathematics being 366 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: a human construct or that the Paraha language socialization restricts 367 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: innate mathematical capabilities to such a degree that reacquiring such 368 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: a capable capabilities is extremely difficult. That's an interesting question, 369 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: particularly since we're looking at it through the lens of 370 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: our language, in our system of calculations. So you have 371 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: to wonder for for that culture, is it a problem 372 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: at all? Do you know what I'm saying? If that, 373 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: if that's their reference material, Um, yeah, I don't know. 374 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: There's there's something there that we need to scratch out. 375 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: I think it's an interesting way of looking at the 376 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: world around you though, that everything is perhaps either a 377 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: small amount or a bigger amount. It's kind of like 378 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: only viewing films as Coen Brothers films and other films. 379 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: It makes things a little simple, and we know that 380 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: makes happiness when things are simple, right, and we that's 381 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: one of the reports out there. I don't know. Yeah, well, 382 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: let me make it simple to our listeners. If you 383 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: want to uh touch base with us about virtually any 384 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: topic that we've covered UH or might cover in the future, 385 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: or just some cool science that happens to be popping 386 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: around your your your headspace. Then drop in at Facebook 387 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: or Twitter. We are blow the Mind on both of those, 388 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: and you can always drop us an email at blow 389 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: the Mind at how stuff works dot com. Be sure 390 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 391 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most 392 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.