WEBVTT - Amazon Rises as AWS Unit Shows Signs of Stabilizing 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.440 gloom O Business Finance and tech news the Bloomberg Business 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:19.000 Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:28.720 Just all right, folks, were staying with the markets, and 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.520 actually really two particular names, because as we just talked about, 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.600 we've got stocks near their lows, some nervousness, the S 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.600 and P ten percent down from its peak in July. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.360 But if you look at something like an Amazon, which 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:42.800 makes up about five and a half percent of the 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.360 Nasdaq one hundred, nearly three point four percent of the 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.560 S and P five hundred earlier, helping send stocks hire 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.360 in the session, you've got Amazon really rallying in a 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.200 big way and holding on to tim most of its 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:55.080 gains today. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.480 Yep, seven percent as we speak, help sending stocks overall 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.000 higher at least earlier. In this from Carol, although the 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.920 broader market has slipped since then. Intel is also higher 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.320 on the day today. The company in the midst of 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.720 attempted to turn around, in which the CEO Pat Gelsinger 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.520 commented on saying the chipmaker is quote clearly coming back. 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:13.920 We're gonna spend this time right now taking a look 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.440 at both of these two very closely washed companies in 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.360 the tech world. Let's start with Amazon. 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.600 Let's do that and with us right now is Punam Goyle. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.959 She is Bloomberg Intelligence Senior analyst for e commerce at Leisure, 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.319 off Price Retail on Zoom from New Jersey. Punham, I'm 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.640 so glad we have you here. As we always do 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.560 when we want to talk to Amazon, you focus on 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:33.400 the retail side of this company, but to be fair, 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.880 you look at it holistically. What was the impressive or 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.840 what impressed you about the earnings and the color on 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.720 the business when it comes to Amazon. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.520 Yes, thanks Carol. So there were really two things. You know, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.520 Amazon has two really big businesses. One is the cloud 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.160 business and one is the retail business. And let's start 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.720 with the retail business. I think the retail business it 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.160 particularly well built. On the one PE and three P side. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.640 Sales are much stronger than expect did and that's a 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.800 really good sign going into holidays, because we know that 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.520 the consumers are clearly stretched for their dollars, but they're 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.160 finding value in Amazon. Amazon's able to push this value 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.360 again to them through crime days and deal days that 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.840 they'll have I think throughout the Christmas season with Black Friday, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.640 Cyber Monday, etc. So we think that's good going into holiday. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.959 And then on the AWUS side, the fact that they 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:31.160 were more optimistic than their peers on the cloud business 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.520 thing strength with stabilization was really encouraging to hear on 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.680 the call, and we are very positive on the cloud 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.520 business longer term. The margins there thirty percent plus were 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.320 obviously nice to see too, and we do think that 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.560 cloud business in the longer term with scale will be 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:49.480 over forty percent. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.320 So put them Why did sales for AWS just missed expectations? 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.040 And I was a little confused by this move yesterday 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.000 I said it on air. I thought AWS was kind 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.600 of everything, and that's you know what either it beat 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.880 or missed was what moved the company's stock. Why are 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.200 you optimistic and why are investors still pushing shares higher 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.520 even if there was that miss on APUs? 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:11.680 I mean, I guess it depends on how you look 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.640 at this, right, So twelve percent versus the twelve point 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.480 four percent estimate, in my eyes, isn't really a bigness 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.280 it was in line with what they did last quarter, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.240 meaning the second quarter. So the twelve percent gains relative 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.080 to what we heard at both Google and Microsoft wasn't 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.920 that bad. And I think really the icing on the 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.040 cake here is on the call when Andy Jazzy came 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.320 on and he spoke about how that they're seeing stabilization 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.480 from those trends even into the fourth quarter. I think 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.240 that was just really encouraging. We all know that spending 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.120 will pick up in a matter of time. Businesses have 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.600 to move towards integrating more cloud into their network as 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.000 well as they need to spend more on AI. So 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.280 Amazon is very well positioned for AWS growth in the 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.640 longer turn. And the fact that they are stabilizing was 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.360 good news to us and I think that's how the 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:04.280 market received it too. 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.440 Can you make the Amazon Ai connection here? I think 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.040 a lot of people might not be familiar with why 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.240 you know boush and AI will help AWS. 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.560 Yeah, so boost and AI helps not only a WS, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.520 but it also helps the retail text business. So when 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.839 you think about what AI does, it basically helps build 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.039 the models and interpret data and models for businesses. So 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.760 the fact that AWI can lean on new AI technologies 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.600 and embed that into its infrastructure. It's going to help 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.000 companies use that and leverage that in their own businesses. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:35.640 The retails side. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.159 Oh keep going, no, no, no, keep going. 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.040 Keep going. On the retail side, you know, AI has 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.640 been doing phenomenal things, especially generative AI, where it's helping 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.400 you predict demand, it's helping you streamline inventory, and it's 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.600 helping you personalize, which is describing conversion higher and industry 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.320 that typically, especially online, it's very low conversion rates. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.000 So does it make sense that I always think about, 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.160 you know, when we first learned about AWS and they 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.120 start breaking it out right because of all the streaming 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:05.800 that was going on, and you're like, I don't really 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.640 care who supplies the content. We're just making sure we 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.800 have the pipe to get it to you basically, right, 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.039 And that's what AWS was just so involved in the 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.240 early days. Is that kind of akin to with AI 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.560 that people are going to need the infrastructure, the backbone, 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.440 and are they going to be involved in that part. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:28.760 So it's software, right, So AI basically it's software that's 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.919 powered through AWUS and that they're integrating and embedding into 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.600 the cloud platform. So as businesses need to become more 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.159 agile and move on to the cloud. AI can only 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.640 be done on the cloud, so you need that, you 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.039 need that support. And for businesses that don't have it, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.679 which money don't, they will need to either tap into Amazon, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.880 Awus or Google or Microsoft in one of them. But 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.040 keep in mind Amazon is the largest cloud rider of 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:55.520 the thirty. 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.599 All right, good stuff, as always, so appreciated, Have a 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.080 great week and put them Goil Bloomberg Intelligence, Senior analyst 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.719 for e Commerce at leisure and off price Retail on 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:04.800 zoom from New Jersey. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.680 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.080 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.159 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.240 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:20.680 Well going on in the world of crypto this week 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.479 Sam Bakman freed testifying at his own fraud trial. He 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.760 says a lot of people got hurt over FTX, so 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.760 that he's not entirely sure about the FTX. Alameda Fund flows. Alameda, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.440 of course, is the hedge fund, and then there's also 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.760 the actual crypto market. Carol Bitcoin enjoying a solid week 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.320 up roughly twelve percent, and you know you got you 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:39.680 got to kind of throw that number out there with 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:40.800 six two thousand one. 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:42.800 Oops, that was Yeah, that was the past. 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.480 You gotta throw that number out there with the understanding 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.479 that it trades twenty four to seven. So if you 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.240 say that number and you know you gotta, you ought 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.839 to always be looking at it. It's all happening amid 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.640 hopes of fresh demand from the possible approval in coming 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.000 weeks of the first US ETF investing directly in bitcoin. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:58.880 Gotta tell you, we got a live blog that's tracking 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.440 the testimony and what's going on in the courthouse today. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.680 Let's get to it though. We've got our weekly check 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.200 on the world of crypto. We have with us Terrence Yang, 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.000 managing director of Fintech, Law, Tech Privacy at Swan Bitcoin. 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.760 It's a platform that allows people to buy bitcoin, including 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.200 in iras, and he is joining us on Zoom from 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.200 Los Angeles, California. Terran's nice to have you here with us. 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.080 I feel like the world of crypto is focused and 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.480 maybe rightfully so, on what's going on with SBF and FTX. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.800 What about the trial and the testimony are you watching 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.960 very closely? And maybe what it means potentially for the 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.240 crypto world going forward. 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:42.960 I am watching closely. Great to see again, Carol. Bottom line, 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:48.400 I think a couple of things. Defense finally present their case. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:56.240 When they do the cross examinations right, it's usually to 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:02.320 create doubt about the credibility of the prosecution witnesses. It 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.360 is not to present their case. And now they're doing that. 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.840 I think Sam got very lucky and the defense countcil 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.239 got very lucky to have sort of this mock trial 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:17.040 profit yesterday with a judge, and now Sam seems to 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.000 be doing a better job. He has a tendency to 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.640 me under, but he's getting the point across. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:25.480 Do you know him, Terrence, You're you're kind of you're 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.440 talking to You're using his first name and whereas a 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.000 lot of people you know use his initials. Do you 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:30.000 know Sam Bankman freed? 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:31.520 No? 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:32.079 No, I do not. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:33.880 But how are you following the trial? 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.240 I follow through X They have a lot of goods, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.840 good information, but also at Bloomberg dot com and some 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:44.360 other sites. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.720 I agree about Bloomberg dot com. There's some great stuff there. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.680 Our lifelog is really really good. Now I'm just curious 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.720 because it's you know, we we're not getting We have 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.920 to rely on you know, reporting from there, whereas in 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.520 so many other instances we can actually watch live feeds 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:00.360 from what's going on in the courtroom, and you know, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.880 we rely on court sketches and impressions Carol from our 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.920 reporters who are there. So it's you know, it's a 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.280 different experience I think for people who are observing you 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.800 don't you know, you don't necessarily see the way he's feeling, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.160 at least according to our own interpretations. So talk more 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.600 about about what you're seeing and what you're reading from 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:18.120 the trial. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:18.679 Terrence. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.480 Yeah, sure, So based on what I'm reading and seeing, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.079 the defense is presenting a case since presenting the case 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.199 that Caroline is basically the one to plane did not 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.800 hedge he had doubts about her abilities right, and its 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.360 thinking of shutting down Alameda and other things. So you 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.120 just need really one juror to get a hung jury. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.680 One jur who thinks there's reasonable doubt does not cave. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.400 So someone who's a little bit strong minded, because it 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.040 would be eleven to one. But that can happen, and 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.640 then on retrial, what might happen with the black rock 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:59.200 and fidelity ATF's happening. Arguably, we're in a bull market 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.360 FTX with John Ray, who's excellent in my opinion, at 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.640 this sort of thing, clawing back assets, maybe doing a 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.200 turnaround and so forth. You could have a situation where 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.880 maybe people don't care as much because, for example, the 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:20.440 investment anthropic and other things mean that everybody gets paid, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:25.400 or at least the FTX investors get paid whole kind 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.320 of cents on the dollar that's possible by the time 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.719 they retry, and so that might be how he gets off. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.080 See it as kind of a two step process, just 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.160 because there's so much evidence against him. 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:37.720 Terrence. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.680 What's productive though for the crypto industry here in terms 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.000 of the outcome of this trial specifically. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.640 So I part ways with my crypto friends, some of 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.280 them are friends with in real life even today, but 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.960 I am bitcoin only and I think that there needs 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.560 to be and there will be massive cleanup in crypto. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.920 You see that with Senator Lummis and others kind of 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:09.120 asking the government to the DOJ to the side kind 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:14.480 of get off the block or not and just issue 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.880 indictments or make a decision on CZ and finance. But 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.920 also tether I think Tether's okay, but I don't want 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:24.840 to get into that. I think the main point is 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:30.200 we have massive tailwinds for bitcoin because of Blackrock, Fidelity 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.559 and two other trillion dollar plus asset managers all applying 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:40.520 for a spotpitcoin ETF and that looks like it's going well. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.520 On the other hand, you have crypto which has destroyed 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:48.280 many Americans, especially poor and middle class, of their life 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.240 savings through these pump and dumps, these digital penny stops, 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.400 that these casinos are basically underregulated, casinos are basically shilling 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.880 on the American public, and that does not looks so good. 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.239 I think that's less promising because of all the securities 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:12.520 violations and allegedly crimes against committed by SBF potentially as 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.360 cz in Binance will see a fee. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.480 Actually, are you worried about the implications of people changing 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.000 the way they're thinking about crypto because of SBF and 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.160 other people who are in the crosshairs of law enforcement 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:28.800 Terance that people are saying, Okay, I'm just gonna throw 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.079 in the towel, because well, look look at the performance 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.800 and two sure and two look at the people who 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.360 we thought were reputable. I mean, they named stadiums and 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:38.520 had Super Bowl ads. 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.440 I am not. The reason is because I'm a long 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.720 term believer in bitcoin. I think five to ten decades 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.360 out bitcoin should be very valuable. There are other threats 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:54.439 to it, with Finsen and other things that the government's 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.079 doing that's not good. It's under reported for now. I'm 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.880 sure Bloomberg will fix that and others. But bottom line, 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:06.040 I'm not worried because look, there's been a mess, was 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.560 a massive bubble in twenty twenty one and crypto and 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.280 bitcoin and the fallout from the bear market and the destruction, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.960 and there needs to be a cleanup. I think it's 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.880 really naive to think that, you know, this is bad 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:25.640 for bitcoin, because bitcoin has enduring values and it doesn't 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:26.200 have a CEO. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.840 It's not a security Hey, terms, forgive me for jumping in. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.280 We've just got a couple of minutes left here. But 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.480 I'm thinking, you know, there might be people listening or 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.800 watching are broadcast right now listening to you and say, yeah, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.679 I get it that there needs to be a cleaning out. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.880 That makes sense, right. We certainly saw that in the Internet, 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:44.600 you know, in dot com bust, right, there were some 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.160 things that really made sense and there are a lot 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.280 of things that didn't. Having said that, you know, you're 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.360 at SWAN Bitcoin and you're of course going to say 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.640 bitcoin is the one to follow, and that has legs here. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.960 So what would you say to somebody like that that 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.160 you're basically forgive me, for lack of better words, talking 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:02.640 your book. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.840 No, no, I am talking my book. I think you 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.640 do want people to talk their book and reveal it 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:13.040 and explain it. I used to be in crypto. I 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.679 was retired when Corey Klipston, our wonderful founder and CEO, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.240 pulled me like made a job offer to come out 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:19.760 of retirement. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.400 So a lot of time, you're two younger. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.080 I was paid on Wall Street. I'm older than I look, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.240 and I was overpaid on Wall Street. And I was 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.880 living frugally taking care of my aging parents. But anyway, 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.120 so bottom line, I would say at SWON, we have 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.920 people on a mission to help other people get bitcoin 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.000 before Wall Street and government supply on the bitcoin. If 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.520 we're right, and I think we are, that this is 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:48.400 the ultimate hard money asset for the future because it's digital, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.640 it's bare, it's very hard to stop, very hard to 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:56.040 confiscate and take away and incredibly finite at only twenty 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:01.720 one million bitcoin. So in my view, it's okay to 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.960 be have a view, but you have to reveal why 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.520 and you have to justify it, like defend your position right. 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.440 Transparency is going to be crucial. But I still try 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.440 to get my head around this idea of the purity 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.760 of what bitcoin and maybe blockchain are supposed to be. 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.360 You know, but then are you opening up doors to 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.040 a lack of oversight and then problems? So then how 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.120 do you balance that with some kind of oversight that 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.160 really makes it safe and secure. But that's going to 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.760 be something we have to hold for next time and 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.520 a future conversation because we do have to run. Terrence, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.280 thanks for spending time with us. Terrence yang Maaging director 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.160 a fintech law tech at Privacy over at Swan Bitcoin, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.480 as we said, a platform that allows people to buy bitcoin, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.400 including their iras, which would really open it up to 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:48.000 a lot of people. 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.520 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.560 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.040 the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.240 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:19.400 Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.120 All right, it's hard to believe that a year has 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.000 passed since Elon Musk bought Twitter. It seems like three 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.800 years to be honest. Anyway, since then, he has made 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.320 the social media service smaller in almost every way. About 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.080 thirteen percent fewer users signed on each day in September 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.280 compared with the last October. That's according to some data 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:37.440 from aptopia. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.600 Yeah, also, Carol. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.280 I don't like it anymore? Can I just put it 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:42.680 out there? 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.880 Yeah, that's fair. I think that's fair to say. The 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.520 company employs about fifteen hundred people yep, down from seventy 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.040 five hundred days that Musk bought it. And this is 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.920 probably perhaps most relevant in my life. I was relatively 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.440 early on Twitter, and it was like such a place 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.960 for journalists, such a place for media professionals, news junkies. 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.480 And Elon has totally deprioritized news. It's like a place 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.199 for I don't know what, the hustlers and I don't know. 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:09.080 And then there's the name. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.560 Yeah it's called X now I guess. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.000 Yeah, I'm not going there, so let's. 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:15.560 Get to it. Yeah, I should count as a social media 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.879 reporter for Bloomberg News. He writes for Business Week about it. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.520 Elon Musk's year of owning X made a mess of 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.960 Twitter's business. She joins us on Zoom from San Francisco. 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.200 Check out her story. It's online at Blomberg dot com, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.440 slash business Week and also on the Bloomberg terminal. Also 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.440 here is the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Joel Webber. 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.720 He's in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Joel. This was 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:32.440 the longest year. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.320 That's definitely one way to describe it. So, yeah, this week, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:42.480 it's been one year since it became official and Elon 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.880 walked into the place with the sink memorable way to begin. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.280 I remember that, Yeah, we didn't we didn't forget, and 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.640 you know, look like this has been something It's been 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:59.159 something right and there were many things about the Twitter 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.840 business that weren't successful. But what we're looking at now 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:08.080 is kind of a shell of itself. That doesn't mean 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.320 that it won't change yet and that maybe he's cut 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.440 so far to bone that there's a growth opportunity that remains, 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.840 but that is you know, this has been a different 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.160 experience than I think most people when they look at 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.240 what Elon has built. You know that he builds things, 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.400 and it doesn't feel like it's necessarily off to that 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.320 start here I issue right, Yeah, as. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.439 You mentioned, it's just a very different place. It's a 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.280 very different feeling. I feel like the types of content 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.320 that are promoted or at least that I see in 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.320 my feet are different than they were, you know, a 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.359 year ago. Right, Like there's more information. I feel like 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.000 there's more hate, Like I get a lot more spam 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.200 in my dms, and like people commenting hateful stuff on 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.040 stories or posts that I put. So it's totally totally different. 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:58.840 It's a totally different feel, which is kind of sad 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:00.640 in a lot of ways. And then I honestly could 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.240 never get used to calling it X. I feel like 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:03.840 I still call it. I hate it. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.520 I can't or I'm like you really feel careful. It's 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.359 just like because every time we do it like X, 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.320 well you know we mean Twitter, Like it's just crazy. 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.120 But I do you think like if you're if you're 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.600 Elon and you've and you bought this thing and you 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.359 want to change the conversation, not unlike you know, his 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.560 cage mask match Nemesis over at that place Facebook or 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:30.720 meta changed. Change the conversation. And one way that you 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.520 can do that is to take the name. And you know, 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.080 we still call Google Google, but you know, technically it's 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.480 alphabet and like look again and again and again. There's 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.280 a playbook for this, and you change the conversation. But 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.760 you know, X is not Twitter, and you know we 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.199 I think it's reflected, but I what I search for 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.679 it on my phone. I can serve Twitter and it 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:51.280 pops up. 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:55.960 Still, right, Wow, that's maybe because I downloaded it recently. Yeah, yeah, 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:57.560 because I try to always give it up a little bit. 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.120 I'm just sorry you were you were going to jump 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:00.240 in there, go ahead, please. 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:01.760 I'm just going to say the same thing. Even on 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.800 the web, right, you look up Twitter and it pops up, 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:06.919 and even some of the links that they post to 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.399 like their policies, it still says like Twitter dot com, 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.719 slash whatever. So I feel like they're still sort of 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.399 I mean that the name brand right of Twitter is 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:16.760 just so strong and so powerful. 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.760 Well, maybe there's a chance that it comes back still, 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:23.200 so what is you look like the numbers there were 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.720 staggering in terms of the number of employees. It's kind 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.199 of cuts, right, yeah, and look like you remember the 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.640 ones that remain, those fifteen hundred. I'm assuming they clicked 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.760 that button that was like we promised to be hardcore, 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.399 you know, like that whole incident. But but what do 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:40.280 you what do we think? 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:41.240 Are you sure? 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.520 Like what does it look like when he gets on 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:44.360 the other side of this? 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.280