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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three sixty six of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors. Why do friendship

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Speaker 1: exploring all of these questions and so much more in

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Speaker 1: my book, Sisterhood Heels, now available in paperback at your

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Speaker 1: local independent bookstore our at sisterhood Heels dot com. Grab

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Speaker 1: a copy for you and your girls, and let's talk

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Speaker 1: about it some of you may know that July is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite months of the year, and that's

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Speaker 1: because it's when Therapy for Black Girls observes Minority Mental

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Speaker 1: Health Awareness Month. This year, we've chosen the theme Holding

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Speaker 1: Space for Healers, putting the spotlight on the therapist and

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Speaker 1: all those who dedicated their careers to holding space for others.

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Speaker 1: All month long, you can expect conversations centered around the

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Speaker 1: experiences and perspectives of mental health professionals. To kick the

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Speaker 1: month off, you're sharing a compilation of some of the

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Speaker 1: greatest gyms, tips and insights from our three part Becoming

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Speaker 1: a Therapist series. You'll hear from my accomplished and brilliant

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Speaker 1: colleagues Josephine and Paul Green, doctor Kimberly Applewhite, doctor DeAndrea Jackson,

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Speaker 1: and doctor Donna Oriowoe as they share their advice on

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Speaker 1: navigating the licensure process, doing the internal work necessary before

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Speaker 1: seeing clients, some of the practical and financial concerns involved

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Speaker 1: with being a therapist, and what it looks like to

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Speaker 1: take care of yourself outside of your work as a therapist.

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Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please

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Speaker 1: share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG

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Speaker 1: in Session, or join us in the Sister Circle to

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Speaker 1: talk more about the episode. You can join us at

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Speaker 1: community dot therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation.

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Speaker 1: If there's the hardest part about becoming a therapist, then

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Speaker 1: the licensing process just might be top three, from the

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Speaker 1: number of steps to the different rules required in different states.

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Speaker 1: We know that it can be a grueling and discouraging experience.

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Speaker 1: Starting us off with some affirmations and advice or doctor Applewhite,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Orioo, Doctor Jackson, and Josephine, as they discussed their

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Speaker 1: experiences in becoming licensed therapists. Take a listen. So I

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Speaker 1: know that we all know the grueling process that is

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Speaker 1: often that of licensure.

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Speaker 2: So this listen.

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Speaker 1: Josephine, your eyes rolling all the way back in your head.

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Speaker 1: It's just so many steps and so this is the

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Speaker 1: thing that it feels like had the most energy when

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Speaker 1: we talked about it on social just because I feel

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Speaker 1: like a lot of us did not know what we

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Speaker 1: were in for in terms of like you think you

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Speaker 1: go to school and it's like okay, well I'm good,

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Speaker 1: but no, they are all these like post degree licensure

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Speaker 1: supervision hours, and like y'all have already talked about, sometimes

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Speaker 1: we have to find people to pay to do those.

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Speaker 1: So let me just read you a couple of other comments.

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Speaker 1: So Crystal George RD wrote, transitioning from a trainee to

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Speaker 1: an associate is a mental hurdle. One minute, you're an amateur,

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Speaker 1: and then when you get a job and you're expected

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Speaker 1: to be the expert. It takes a lot of grounding

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Speaker 1: and self acceptance to know that you're still an amateur

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Speaker 1: that will always be growing and learning through the field.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of imposter syndrome that comes to as

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Speaker 1: you deal with more difficult cases, but eventually, as you

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Speaker 1: become more competent, it passes. Sarah Phoebe wrote the required

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Speaker 1: three thousand hours are a pain off, and then State

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Speaker 1: of Mind Journal wrote, I wasn't prepared for all of

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Speaker 1: the stigma. I also wish someone would have told me

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Speaker 1: that most of the costs came out of your pocket

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Speaker 1: beyond just the degrees. Every licensee in North Carolina wants

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Speaker 1: me to pay their rate by the hour for my

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Speaker 1: supervised hours. They only allow a small group of students

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Speaker 1: and to graduate school where their supervised hours are a

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Speaker 1: part of their degree. I should have gotten a bachelor's

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Speaker 1: in social works so that I could still be making

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Speaker 1: an income while I'll wait, but lessons learned. So talk

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Speaker 1: to me a little bit about your licensure process, Josephine.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you're still having a bit of a

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Speaker 1: licensure process as you work to become a supervisor. And

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Speaker 1: some of the things are words of wisdom that you

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Speaker 1: would offer to people who are kind of in this journey.

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Speaker 3: Now you are so right. Yes, my eyes definitely went

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Speaker 3: all the way in the back of my head what

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Speaker 3: you said licensure, because i finished my licensed clinical social

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Speaker 3: work hours three three hundred and sixty of them, and

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Speaker 3: that I'm doing the hours for the MFT, which is

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Speaker 3: another two thousand, and then I'm doing the hours for

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Speaker 3: the license Addictions Counselor, which is another two thousand. So

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Speaker 3: I have found that when it comes to licensure, it

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Speaker 3: is a journey that I think it makes me a

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Speaker 3: stronger therapist, like gives me real thick skin in terms

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Speaker 3: of being able to handle the oppressive systems that we

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Speaker 3: operate within. And the silver lining of it is it's

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Speaker 3: really open the opportunity for me to meet other professionals

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Speaker 3: that I don't think I would have otherwise been able

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Speaker 3: to work with. My experience in becoming a licensed clinical

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Speaker 3: social worker was unique in the fact that I was

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Speaker 3: working in many different places at the same time, so

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Speaker 3: I was trying to collect all of these hours, which

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Speaker 3: meant that I had the opportunity to learn from so

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Speaker 3: many different professionals. I implore folks working towards relicentshire to

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Speaker 3: not amount their worth as a therapist to the license.

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Speaker 3: There's a huge and at least in my experience, I

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Speaker 3: thought I was less of a therapist because I didn't

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Speaker 3: have the LCSW yet, But that's just simply not true.

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Speaker 3: You're getting these hours so that you're able to get

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Speaker 3: more experience. But there's a reason why you got into

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Speaker 3: graduate school. Let's start there. There's a reason why you

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Speaker 3: got whatever employment that you got, or if you're in

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Speaker 3: private practice, there's a reason why you're doing that. So

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Speaker 3: there's so much that you can offer and that you

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Speaker 3: can give while you're on your way there and when

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Speaker 3: you get there. I threw myself a whole party when

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Speaker 3: I got all of my hours, because it is a

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Speaker 3: huge accomplishment doing it once doing it twice, doing three

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Speaker 3: times for me, And it's so crucial to know the

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Speaker 3: steps and know exactly what the licensing agencies are looking

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Speaker 3: for and being aware of what changes happen, because in

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Speaker 3: Colorado the licensing requirements for social work have changed about

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Speaker 3: three times over since I started with trying to get

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Speaker 3: my license in twenty twenty and now working to be

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Speaker 3: a supervisor. Luckily there aren't a ton of requirements for that,

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Speaker 3: but those things keep changing. So I always imploor folks

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Speaker 3: to really keep your eyes open, subscribe to whatever newsletter

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Speaker 3: your licensing agency has so that whenever there's an update,

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Speaker 3: you're always up to date on it. So those are

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Speaker 3: a couple of things I fly thank.

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Speaker 1: You for that, and I think it is important to

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Speaker 1: talk about. So as therapists, we are licensed in individual states.

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Speaker 1: So as of yet, though there is some movement to

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Speaker 1: talk about, like okay, can we have national licenses, like

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Speaker 1: is there really a need to have this, But as

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Speaker 1: of right now, we are licensed in each individual state.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to see clients in Georgia, where

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Speaker 1: I am, then you have to have a license from

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Speaker 1: the border social work, border psychology, border marriage, and family

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Speaker 1: therapy to be able to see clients. And if you

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Speaker 1: want to do that, then in North Carolina you have

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Speaker 1: to have a different license, right, And the states don't

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Speaker 1: all have the same requirements. So some states have like

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Speaker 1: this verbal thing that you have to go and do.

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Speaker 1: Most states have like a test that you have to take.

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Speaker 1: But there are lots of different requirements. So that's a

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Speaker 1: great point, Josephine, is to kind of make sure that

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Speaker 1: you know the requirements, especially if you're somebody who's going

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Speaker 1: to be like applying in different states at the same time.

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Speaker 1: You want to make sure you don't miss something because

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Speaker 1: one state requires fifteen hundred hours versus two thousand. So

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Speaker 1: I think that is important to kind of point out

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Speaker 1: what about you, Doctor Orio will talk to us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your process.

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Speaker 2: This is such a long time ago because.

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Speaker 4: Right, so, like I walked across the stage with a

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Speaker 4: license because I took my test before I graduated, because

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Speaker 4: you're allowed to do it so many months ahead of graduation,

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Speaker 4: sophen ahead, and I was like, well, might as well

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Speaker 4: go ahead to take it to one.

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Speaker 2: If I failed, then I got a little grace period.

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Speaker 2: I can do it again.

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Speaker 4: But I will say this the number one strategic thinking

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Speaker 4: is my strength, and that was part of my strategy.

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Speaker 4: If I can walk across the stage with my license,

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Speaker 4: then that's one last thing for me to have to

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Speaker 4: worry about when I got my degree in hand, because

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Speaker 4: I will walk across the stage knowing that I'm licensed.

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Speaker 4: And when it came time to do the clinical licensure,

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Speaker 4: the way I was studying, I was just like, we

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Speaker 4: study a little bit at a time.

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Speaker 2: We don't cram.

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Speaker 4: I took my time, I read books, but I probably

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Speaker 4: did things in a way that some people don't. I

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Speaker 4: took a practice test first before I began studying. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: there's no point in me studying for things that I

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Speaker 4: already know, so let me let the test tell me

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Speaker 4: what I already know. Then I could study to my

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Speaker 4: weaknesses and not study to my strengths. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: was still gonna get those strengths anyway, but that was

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Speaker 4: part of my strategy.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have to do what you do for you.

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Speaker 4: And same thing when I was doing ASEX certification, just

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Speaker 4: making sure that you understand exactly what the requirements are.

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Speaker 2: Just like Josephine said, like, don't be planed around.

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Speaker 4: You're gonna find yourself in the world to hurt, not

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Speaker 4: knowing what it is that you're doing and for where

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Speaker 4: you're doing it, and knowing that certain licenses do not

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Speaker 4: just automatically transfer, because I think that a lot of

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Speaker 4: people thought that you could just apply and be given reciprocity.

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Speaker 2: New York.

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Speaker 4: Don't play those games. California. Don't play those games in California.

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Speaker 2: You gotta take a law class. Stop playing. In New York.

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Speaker 4: They require very specific classes as well that a lot

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Speaker 4: of states do not require. So you're gonna have to

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Speaker 4: get that first. And if you want to transfer that license,

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Speaker 4: it's ten years. You have to do ten years already

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Speaker 4: as a clinical social worker, because I'm a social worker

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Speaker 4: in order for that joont to even go over there.

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Speaker 2: So I think that a lot of people.

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Speaker 4: Are not looking when they're doing this thing, and sometimes

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Speaker 4: we're in such a rush to get the thing that

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Speaker 4: we're not sitting down to look at. Okay, whether the requirements,

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Speaker 4: what do I need to do, What is the best

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Speaker 4: order for me to do this in as opposed to

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Speaker 4: let me just start and hope I don't have to

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Speaker 4: double back.

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Speaker 2: I find that that is a.

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Speaker 4: Beautiful, delicious, tremendous waste of time and taking the time

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Speaker 4: to sit down and consider what you want where you

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Speaker 4: want it, and also bringing in the why, because I

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Speaker 4: don't think that all of us are fully entrenched in

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Speaker 4: our why. I know some therapists that I look at them,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, Wow, you better than me. They got ten

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Speaker 4: ten licenses in ten different states, and for the life

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Speaker 4: of me, I cannot figure out why, Like, what was

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Speaker 4: the purpose behind ten licenses in ten states? And if

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Speaker 4: you don't know your why, then maybe pause, figure out

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Speaker 4: the why, make sure it's an alignment with what it

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Speaker 4: is that you're saying that you want, and then move forward.

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Speaker 4: Because I'll say this, I did consider licensing in New

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Speaker 4: York and California and Georgia, and then I remember that

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Speaker 4: baby girl been full since twenty eighteen. I've been full

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Speaker 4: since twenty eighteen. I'm not hurting for clients. Why would

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Speaker 4: I get that license in these other states? When I

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Speaker 4: can't see nobody, I'm like, could I hire somebody else?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Or just throwing this out there right, Or I can

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Speaker 4: focus on where I am because I love my sisters

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Speaker 4: here in the DMV and we still need stuff. I

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Speaker 4: can let people who are in New York handle New

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Speaker 4: York and I can handle the DMV. So just throwing

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Speaker 4: that out there as well, because I see everybody going

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Speaker 4: for all fifty states and I'm just like, better you

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Speaker 4: than me, because when it comes time to pay the

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Speaker 4: piper on those renos.

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Speaker 2: Not I.

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Speaker 1: So we already know that becoming a therapist takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of work, from school to licensing to clinical hours. Well,

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Speaker 1: one type of work that is overlooked is self work,

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Speaker 1: interrogating your own internalized biases and traumas that could potentially

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Speaker 1: show up in your work with clients. Here's a snippet

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Speaker 1: from Becoming a Therapist, Part two. We respond to a

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Speaker 1: community member's story about learning about wounds they didn't even

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Speaker 1: know existed until working with clients, So something we didn't

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Speaker 1: get a chance to get to in Part one of

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Speaker 1: this conversation was of the personal development piece that is

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Speaker 1: required to become a therapist. So one of our community

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Speaker 1: members wrote on Instagram at Jump for Joe, she said,

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Speaker 1: I definitely didn't expect the healing it forced me to

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Speaker 1: do in places I thought were already healed. It has

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Speaker 1: made me a more attuned human so that I'm able

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Speaker 1: to properly show up, not just for my clients in

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Speaker 1: the therapeutic space, but also for myself and loved ones.

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Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear from both of you a

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Speaker 1: little bit about like your own personal development and like

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Speaker 1: what kinds of things have you learned about yourself or

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Speaker 1: had to attend to in your work as a practicing clinician.

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Speaker 5: Well, I got a lot of feedback in internship. I

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Speaker 5: was a fixer when I first came in, and so

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Speaker 5: I just wanted to dive right in there and try

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Speaker 5: to give my clients the answers as opposed to accompanying

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Speaker 5: them on the journey of building insight and developing that

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Speaker 5: sense of self awareness and that mindfulness of what it

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Speaker 5: is that they're dealing with and helping them put those

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Speaker 5: puzzle pieces together. So on the outside I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 5: I see this, and let's do this, and we can

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Speaker 5: at this and we can do that. And that was

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Speaker 5: sometimes not helpful for my clients and internship because they

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Speaker 5: didn't learn from the process. So I had to learn

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Speaker 5: to hush myself in session. And I also had to

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Speaker 5: learn to monitor my nonverbals. I think that was really

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Speaker 5: another one for me, because my face will speak before

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Speaker 5: I have an opportunity to and with all my black

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Speaker 5: girl energy that I was trying not to bring to

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Speaker 5: the military space because it didn't seem like a warm,

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Speaker 5: welcoming environment. For that that used to be a challenge

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Speaker 5: for me. I also, upon embarking on treating trauma, had

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Speaker 5: to learn to work through my own stuff that I

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Speaker 5: thought was healed but was not. And especially in the

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Speaker 5: context of providing manual based therapy like cognitive processing therapy

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Speaker 5: or prolonged exposure, those kind of things can really have

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Speaker 5: an impact, especially once you start doing it regularly with

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Speaker 5: multiple clients. And so sitting with that and working through

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Speaker 5: your own stuff, getting your own counselor and continuing to

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Speaker 5: see your own counselor so important in the process of

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Speaker 5: becoming a therapist.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree with so much of that. And I

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Speaker 6: was thinking about to how when I was in graduate school,

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Speaker 6: do you think you made it right, especially like on

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Speaker 6: a doctoral level, you're like, man, like I've gotten an

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Speaker 6: American dream or whatever. And then when I came to

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Speaker 6: do and I can remember clearly a time where we

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Speaker 6: were talking about the idea of stereotype threat. I went

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Speaker 6: to NYU. They were doing a lot of that work

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Speaker 6: at NYU went at the leads On that was still

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Speaker 6: a professor in the Steinhart School, so I was familiar.

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Speaker 6: But then I learned that the other person, Claude Steele,

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Speaker 6: was a black man, and in my head I thought

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Speaker 6: that Clode Steele was a white woman, like I guess

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Speaker 6: I had the Danielle Steel books in mind or whatever.

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Speaker 2: So that was the first thing.

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Speaker 6: And then at the time that I was in graduate school,

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Speaker 6: Norm Anderson was the CEO of APA, and he is

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Speaker 6: also a black man who graduated from North Carolina Central University.

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Speaker 6: And you know, I mentioned I'm from the South, but

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Speaker 6: I'm from North Carolina specifically, and I went to boarding

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Speaker 6: school right down the street from NCCU and didn't really

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Speaker 6: seriously consider going there because of really all of this

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Speaker 6: internalized racist stuff, frankly, that I had growing up as

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Speaker 6: a black kid in the South. And so when I

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Speaker 6: realized that, and I noticed my surprise about that, Hey,

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Speaker 6: these are really successful people and they're you know, they're

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Speaker 6: black people and they grew up similar to me, I

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Speaker 6: was like, oh crap, Like what am I assuming about

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Speaker 6: myself and my own likelihood of being successful in graduate school?

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Speaker 6: If it's really this surprising to me that there's black

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Speaker 6: people out here doing this, and to think that not

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Speaker 6: everybody that gets a graduate school is going to have

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Speaker 6: those emotion skills to be able to pinpoint something like that.

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Speaker 6: And so yeah, as long as it's undeveloped, like, realizations

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Speaker 6: like that are really jarring and difficult. And then when

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Speaker 6: you get into kind of your passions or and when

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Speaker 6: I've gotten into my passions and things that you know,

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Speaker 6: I feel strongly about caring for black youth, tending to

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Speaker 6: racially stressful and traumatic events in the community, and then

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Speaker 6: you have people kind of devalue those things, people that

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Speaker 6: you think should know better because they're all in the

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Speaker 6: mental health fields. It continues to bring up things that,

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Speaker 6: like doctor Jackson was saying, really do require what you

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Speaker 6: be in your own work, like that you have a

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Speaker 6: space to process those things. One of the reasons that

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Speaker 6: I like being a DBT therapist so much is that

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Speaker 6: there is a little bit of room, well, there is

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Speaker 6: lots of room in the model to be more self

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Speaker 6: disclosing because in DBT, a lot of times people have

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Speaker 6: experienced invalidating environments and that's where they learned a lot

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Speaker 6: of the ways that they are coping with the world,

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Speaker 6: and so it's important to be genuine and appropriate ways.

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Speaker 6: And so then I really like being able to be

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Speaker 6: genuine and expecting that the type of relationships I build,

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Speaker 6: people will call out what seems like it's therapy interfering

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Speaker 6: and give me that chance to process it, but that

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Speaker 6: I don't have to put on certain types of language

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Speaker 6: or put on a front to be a certain thing

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Speaker 6: that I'm not. But yeah, you really do learn a

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Speaker 6: lot of treatment paradigms say, you know, practice the skills

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Speaker 6: on yourself, and it's all kinds of things like practicing

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Speaker 6: skills of self compassion, emotion regulation. I can't come into

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Speaker 6: work tired, not having eating and yet I have these realities, right,

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Speaker 6: I have two kids at home, I have all of

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Speaker 6: these things that I'm doing in the community, and so

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Speaker 6: really have to practice the skills to be able to

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Speaker 6: do what I'm doing on a daily basis and then

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Speaker 6: to be able to share that with clients. When we're

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Speaker 6: working with skills, it's like, man, you might want to

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Speaker 6: call BS on a lot of this because the implementation

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Speaker 6: is difficult and I'm doing it like we're doing it together.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, you really do learn so much more from.

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Speaker 1: Our conversation after the break, but first a quick snip

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Speaker 1: of what's to come next week on TBG. I'll say this,

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Speaker 1: I was so scared that I would be recognized. And

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Speaker 1: actually every semester I did get recognized by one person

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Speaker 1: in each class, but they wouldn't say anything until like

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Speaker 1: maybe the middle of the semester or at the very end.

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Speaker 1: One classmate wore the Reds T shirt like wore our

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Speaker 1: merch and I was like, Okay, you ain't have to

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Speaker 1: do that, you ain't have to do that. But the

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Speaker 1: people who did recognize me were very low key about it,

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Speaker 1: very cool. Even at graduation, a girl came up to

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Speaker 1: me and was like congrats, and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: just need you to not tell nobody. Just don't tell

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Speaker 1: nobody until the ceremony is over, because I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to do this program anonymously. This July Therapy for Black

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Speaker 1: Girls is bringing our yearly Minority Mental Health Month celebration

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Speaker 1: in person to Atlanta, Georgia when us Thursday July eighteenth

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Speaker 1: and Friday July nineteenth, as we shine a light on

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Speaker 1: mental health professionals and all those who dedicated their careers

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Speaker 1: to holding space for others. Our inaugural holding space for

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Speaker 1: Healers Therapists Summit will gather some of our favorite voices

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Speaker 1: in the field for workshops, seminars, and opportunities to connect.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to miss this, so secure your ticket

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Speaker 1: to wellness by visiting Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Healers.

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Speaker 1: We don't traditionally think of therapists as business owners, but

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Speaker 1: deciding to begin your own practice is indeed starting a business.

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Speaker 1: It isn't easy trying to navigate the world of social media,

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Speaker 1: marketing and financial planning. So I'm glad that my colleague

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Speaker 1: could join me to discuss some best practices and advice

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Speaker 1: around this topic. Here's a clip. So you both have

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Speaker 1: thriving private practices and so this, I know, is the

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Speaker 1: thing that nobody teaches us in grad school. The surprise,

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Speaker 1: I feel like more schools are adding in some of

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Speaker 1: these kind of business like or opening up a practice,

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Speaker 1: but for a very long time, there has been no

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Speaker 1: instruction on what to do after your actually licensed. Like

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Speaker 1: there's lots of preparation about how to seek clients, but

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Speaker 1: nobody teaches you how to actually run a practice. And

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Speaker 1: so some of the comments that we got online so real.

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Speaker 1: Nicole wrote the business side of having your own practice.

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Speaker 1: If you desire to have your own practice, learn about business,

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Speaker 1: engage with console groups, get connected with local counseling groups

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Speaker 1: and the state board, and then sharing Moseley at the

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Speaker 1: fit Talk road. You need to understand the business side,

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Speaker 1: not just therapy, which I think both of you would

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Speaker 1: agree with. So talk to me a little bit about

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Speaker 1: how you actually learned how to have a business and

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Speaker 1: what suggestions you would offer two sisters who are interested

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Speaker 1: in opening a practice.

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Speaker 3: I found that it is not only important to learn

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Speaker 3: the knowledge for yourself, but also know who are the

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Speaker 3: experts of the things that you don't know. So, for example,

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Speaker 3: I have an incredible bookkeeper and an incredible attorney who

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Speaker 3: I turn to and I say, hey, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how this works, so help me figure out how it works.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that owning a business is about being

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Speaker 3: the expert of everything. I think owning a business is

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Speaker 3: about knowing who to ask for help in the things

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Speaker 3: that you are not an expert in. I focus on

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Speaker 3: the therapy, I focus on the consulting, I focus on

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Speaker 3: the curriculum, writing, and all those things that I was

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Speaker 3: trained in. But when I'm able to extend and ask

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Speaker 3: for that help. That also prevents burnout from me. I

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Speaker 3: think another piece of running a private practice is trial

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Speaker 3: and error. Knowing that there is a huge part of

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Speaker 3: knowing that things that you try in the beginning don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily have to be what you stick with in the

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Speaker 3: long haul. Like if you want to see twenty clients

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Speaker 3: a week and you change your mind, you say you

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Speaker 3: want to say fifteen clients a week, and the math

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Speaker 3: maths up, then do it if you realize, okay, I

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Speaker 3: have capacity to see more, Like no one in private

436
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: practice should feel like just because they started doing something

437
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: one way, they have to continue doing it that way.

438
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: Like the way that I run a private practice now

439
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 3: being an LCSW is not going to be the way

440
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: I run a private practice when I'm in a doctoral program,

441
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 3: which we'd love to talk to you all about mentorship boom.

442
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: It's a thing right in the moment, and the way

443
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 3: that I do it after I have a PhD is

444
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: going to be very different. So knowing that as we

445
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: grow and evolve as humans, our needs are naturally going

446
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 3: to change and that's okay. And knowing who the experts are.

447
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: There are tons of folks even on Instagram, on Facebook,

448
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: on TikTok, who know and share a lot of knowledge

449
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: of things that we can prevent if we look out

450
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 3: for the resources. And as business owners, it's important to

451
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 3: know that answers are not going to come to us.

452
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 3: We have to go and find them.

453
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: I know you got a lot to say. They're doctor Will.

454
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 4: Doctor Jetta Robinson. I joined at the time it was

455
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 4: called Private Practice Academy, and.

456
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: I learned what I needed to learn right there. It

457
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: had a built in community feel.

458
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 4: She was already an expert right with like seven or

459
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 4: eight figure private practice.

460
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 2: Who else finn to teach you?

461
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 4: And the way that she teaches, she thinks about what

462
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 4: it takes for you to actually learn this information and

463
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: for you to do this in a way that is

464
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 4: going to be sustainable in.

465
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: The long run.

466
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 4: Because let's be real, some of these private practices out

467
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 4: here that sprung up in COVID are not private practices.

468
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: They are a therapists who just happened to practice privately.

469
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 4: Your business is not a business boo. It's not a

470
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,239
Speaker 4: business boo. And looking like some people are running around here,

471
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 4: not ANLC to be seen. Just the name and the

472
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 4: money is depositive into their private account while they don't

473
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 4: have any insurance.

474
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, all this is gonna.

475
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 4: Take is one client one to suit you and they

476
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 4: get to take everything out your bank account because you

477
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 4: don't have a business account. I'm saying those basic business things.

478
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 4: These are not things that grew up just knowing.

479
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: Nor is it just.

480
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 4: Things that we just got out of our social work

481
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 4: or mental health counseling programs.

482
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: They didn't teach us how to be business owners. They

483
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 2: taught us how to do therapy.

484
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 4: And remembering that you still need someone that has expertise

485
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 4: that is different from yours means that you go find

486
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 4: the people who have business acumen. Don't just be asking

487
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 4: you know your friend who also don't have an LLC

488
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 4: and who is putting money in their bank account or

489
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 4: telling their clients to just cash at me. Look, I

490
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: done heard and sink some things right. So I found

491
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 4: that being a part of the Private Practice Academy really

492
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 4: helped me to number one, get my foundations right, so

493
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 4: that when I decided I was going from a solo

494
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 4: practice to a.

495
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: Group practice, it one no thing.

496
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 4: And I definitely agreed with what Justpine said. I have

497
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 4: people who know what they are doing, so my accountant

498
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 4: knows what she is doing. They focus on private practices actually,

499
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 4: so I've been able to just be like, all right, cool,

500
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 4: this is what I want to do next. They're like, well,

501
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 4: if you want to hire this thing, you're gonna need

502
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 4: to figure out this thing first. I'm like, bebbee, you

503
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 4: ain't said nothing but what I'm gonna figure that out

504
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 4: and I'm gonna talk to an expert so that i

505
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: can do what I need to do. So, if you're

506
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 4: having a business, you're gonna reinvest into your business the

507
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: same way that you invested into the knowledge base that

508
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 4: you have to be a great therapist. Don't be shy

509
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 4: about that money coming out that account when it's time

510
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 4: to learn his business stuff. I'm not saying you have

511
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 4: to go get an MBA, but certainly you have to

512
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 4: be willing to put up more than fifty dollars a

513
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 4: month to get the thing that you needed from these

514
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: other people who have an expertise too. I had found

515
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 4: that people be wanting something for nothing. They don't want

516
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 4: to put time in, and they don't want to put

517
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 4: money in, but they still want to be able to

518
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 4: reap all the benefits and get where they want to go.

519
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 4: But I will say that I feel like I got

520
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 4: my money back from what I invested with doctor Jetta

521
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 4: and her crew simply because of the way that they

522
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: sort of outlined everything. That's what really worked for me. Now,

523
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 4: I had tried some other ones. I'm not going to

524
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 4: name them because you know, and try to hurt nobody's feelings.

525
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 4: But I did try some other ones, and for me,

526
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 4: those were I call that lesson learned money as and

527
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: I learned me some lessons. I learned that you're not

528
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 4: the one for me, that your approach does not work

529
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: with what I need, and I needed to do a

530
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 4: better job of vetting according to what I knew about

531
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 4: me and not just what I know about this program.

532
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 4: And I will say that this is lifelong learning. As

533
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: your business grows and changes, you have to be willing

534
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: to continue to invest in that way. So right now

535
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: I'm a part of two men or minds that are

536
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 4: focused on business. I'm also in one that is focused

537
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: on marketing. This is how I am learning so that

538
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 4: I can continue to pour into my practice in a

539
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: way that doesn't take things away from me. If you

540
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: want your business to be a business and.

541
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: Not a hobby and be gone by. I mean what

542
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: they say we in a recession.

543
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: Recession proofing yourself also requires you to have some business acumen,

544
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 4: and that means that you're gonna have to put some

545
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: money up or you're gonna have to shut up.

546
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: So I feel like it's a running refrain when I

547
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: talk with other therapists about this, like there's so much

548
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: we don't learn in grad school about like actually either

549
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: operating a practice or even being in private practice. I

550
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: know there's probably so many things, but what is one

551
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: thing that you feel like you did not learn in

552
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: grad school about either being in a private practice or

553
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: owning your private practice that you would love to share

554
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: with other people that you've been able to kind of

555
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: figure out on.

556
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 5: Your own establishing a business plan. And I can't even

557
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: say that I figured that out on my own. I'm

558
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 5: blessed to be married to a man who has an

559
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 5: MBA Harvest did that knowledge from him, and he's also

560
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 5: in finance. But there's so much about stepping into the

561
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 5: space of running your own practice that you have to

562
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 5: be knowledgeable about business plan and marketing strategies and marketing

563
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 5: analyzes and slide analysis, so that you can recognize what

564
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 5: it is that you want to do, how it aligns

565
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 5: with your values, but also how it makes business sense. Right,

566
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 5: So I hear doctor Applewhite saying that it just didn't

567
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 5: make good businesses and the systems not working for all parties.

568
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 5: I absolutely agree with her on that. And so having

569
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 5: a solid business plan, understanding your business model, identifying how

570
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 5: you can work into your business plan, these alternative streams

571
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 5: of income so you're not grasping at straws. I think

572
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 5: it's so important, and it's not something that a lot

573
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 5: of academic programs are offering. So once clinicians get out

574
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 5: into the space of establishing their own practices, a lot

575
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 5: of times we're like clueless and don't even know where

576
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 5: to start. And then once we get a little bit

577
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 5: of taste of that information is very overwhelming in terms

578
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 5: of of all the things that need to be accomplished

579
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 5: and the boxes that need to be checked. So I

580
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: would say establishing a solid business plan is necessary to know.

581
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 6: I hope that people coming through grad school now the

582
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 6: training is different, but I feel like the importance of

583
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 6: technology was under emphasized in school, and of course in

584
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 6: this pandemic and post pandemic world, it's become more important

585
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 6: than ever to be flexible to the needs of clients

586
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 6: and use technology. The older I get, and you know,

587
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 6: I'm thirty four, but I try to see teaen clients

588
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 6: and I don't know what's going on with them, because

589
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 6: like technology has just advanced. And you know, I tell

590
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 6: people I had kids in graduate school, so my knowledge

591
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 6: of pop culture is kind of limited and perhaps dead.

592
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 6: It's limited to like the time my first kid was born,

593
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 6: Like all of my music knowledge is mainly from before

594
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 6: twenty fourteen, Like.

595
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 4: It's just dead.

596
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 6: But then when you're working with clients, like there is

597
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 6: a need to stay relevant and stay connected to what

598
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 6: people are talking about. Like it's come up that TikTok

599
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 6: has advanced or I don't know if you call it advanced,

600
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 6: it certainly has put out there a lot of talk

601
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 6: about mental health. Some of it is accurate, some of

602
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 6: it is effective, some of it is not. You got

603
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,239
Speaker 6: kids run around thinking they have DD and they're like,

604
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 6: what D ideas only in like I don't zer point

605
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 6: five percent of the population or something like what's the

606
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 6: prevalence of that? Or you know, people say, ADHD is

607
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 6: this ADHD is that, And I'm like, maybe you've got

608
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 6: some other things going on, like maybe you needed an evaluation.

609
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 6: But as long as we're kind of constrained to offices

610
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 6: and not regularly engaging with technology, then we won't be prepared.

611
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 6: Then the next pandemic or that kind of event will

612
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 6: come around, then you won't know what to do. Like

613
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 6: doctor Jackson was doing telehealth before telehealth was cool in essence,

614
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 6: before that, you know, all kinds of shape was like, oh, yeah,

615
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 6: telehealth didn't work as well, even though the evidence was

616
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 6: there that it did, or like, oh, you're gonna be

617
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 6: disconnected from this, that, and the other if you go

618
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 6: tell health. And then we all had to do it.

619
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 6: So some of us were able to like continue to

620
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 6: grow and develop that being connected to technology. And sometimes

621
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 6: I think we can pull ourselves into thinking we only

622
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 6: have to be connected to the work, but the work

623
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 6: is technology. We'll get left behind if we're not keeping up.

624
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So one of the questions that we have

625
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: not been able to get to that I really want

626
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 1: to spend some time talking about is the idea of

627
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: marketing yourself as a private practice therapist or even if

628
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: you're not in private practice, you still want a caseload, right,

629
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: And this is definitely one of those things that they

630
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: did not teach us in grad school. I don't know

631
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: if grad schools are teaching this now, but definitely when

632
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: I graduated, there was no marketing, like how do you

633
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: even get your first client? So what did you do

634
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: or what are you currently doing to market yourself? And

635
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: what would you like other therapists to know about different

636
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: avenues or different opportunities they might have to market themselves

637
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: as a therapist.

638
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: One thing I.

639
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: Used with social media, especially when I was getting started,

640
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: I needed people to understand what it was exactly that

641
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: I was doing as a therapist that may not meet

642
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 4: whatever they think a therapist is supposed to do, right,

643
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 4: So as a sex and relationship therapist, but with a

644
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 4: focus on colorism and texturism.

645
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: A lot of the work that I was.

646
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 4: Doing is let me educate you about what this thing

647
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 4: is and why you might need this thing. So educating

648
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 4: from that perspective in social media was a really great

649
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 4: help because it opened the door for people to understand

650
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 4: exactly what it was I was doing, why I was doing,

651
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 4: and why they might.

652
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: Want to come and see me.

653
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 4: Specifically, because despite what they say profile on psychology today,

654
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 4: therapy for black girls and whatever, a plethora of other

655
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 4: spaces is not enough. That's more passive, and I wanted

656
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 4: to be more active. So in addition to that type

657
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: of marketing, I talked to therapists in this area, like,

658
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 4: who are the people who see my people who might

659
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 4: at some point be on overflow and need somebody to

660
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 4: service backup?

661
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: Like me, pick me, choose me, love me. So that's

662
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: what I was, especially when I started.

663
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 6: I feel like so many of those points were so wise,

664
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 6: Doctor Donna, because I was just talking to somebody on

665
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 6: the phone before I got on here. So my background

666
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 6: is in child psychology, but I don't do a lot

667
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 6: of assessments now, so I'll pretty much only do them

668
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 6: for BIPOD clients or when one of my black clindician's

669
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 6: colleagues refers them to me, because I really do not

670
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 6: like report writing.

671
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: It's like anti marketing.

672
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 6: But I was telling this parrot because they were talking

673
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 6: about how hard it is to find black therapists, especially

674
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 6: here in Utah, where I'm based, and I'm like, I

675
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 6: think we've got this underground railroad situation where we know

676
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 6: who will do what and so I do think it's

677
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 6: so wise to talk to other therapists in the area.

678
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 6: It may seem like competition, but because we're all doing

679
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 6: kind of different things, even if we have the same

680
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 6: focus on audiences, we might have a different flavor, different priorities,

681
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 6: and so it's not competition. And I would love to

682
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 6: decolonize competition, like I think there's enough for all of

683
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 6: us if we're working together. And so I really just

684
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 6: value a lot of what you said, and also just

685
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 6: the value of social media. That was something that I

686
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 6: was taught on one of my post fellowships that was

687
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 6: public health emphasized. Like all of the doctors, all of

688
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 6: the fellows, they were all on social media. And that's

689
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,479
Speaker 6: how a lot of times you get to see what's

690
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 6: going on in the world, what other people are saying,

691
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 6: to exchange ideas, and then that becomes it's own marketing

692
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 6: across the country, especially for psychologists who have siepacked capability

693
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 6: if you apply for sypack, which means that you can

694
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 6: see people in many states over thirty states, So people

695
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 6: who were just limiting their marketing to their state. I

696
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 6: also have just looked at how being careful about how

697
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 6: I am describing myself. Our company takes lera client. Salaria

698
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 6: is a third party contractor. It works with a lot

699
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 6: of employee assistance programs. But for like pretty expansive companies,

700
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 6: and on those platforms, you only get so much space

701
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 6: to describe who you are, and so then it's important

702
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 6: that how you communicate things has the flavor of who

703
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 6: you are too, and not just what you do. Because

704
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 6: I work at an evidence based place, that's how it

705
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 6: markets itself. Then my first profile sound a little bit

706
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 6: like an evidence based robot, like I do I do,

707
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 6: and I'm like I read them all recently. I'm like,

708
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 6: this is not even who I am anymore, Like I'm

709
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 6: just a therapist. You could kick it. And so just

710
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 6: being able to communicate that stuff in your language, I

711
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 6: think is important if you're going to go those traditional

712
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,479
Speaker 6: marketing routes, because you are still a brand, like even

713
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 6: if you're fresh out of school, you're a brand.

714
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 7: Like doctor Donna said, people who already have the audience

715
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,479
Speaker 7: that you're looking for. And if I'm looking to work

716
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 7: with black women's that I'm gonna be talking to hairstylists

717
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 7: about what it is that I do and how I

718
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 7: can offer support to them and to their clientele, because

719
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 7: you know, we've said in this the Larne chair and

720
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 7: we get to talking and people will talk about their

721
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 7: problems and does the lat is not always a place

722
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 7: to get the skills and the resources. So just being

723
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 7: a walking marketing opportunity for yourself talking to anyone who

724
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 7: might have your clientele as a captive audience, I think would.

725
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: Be I think that there's so much good that has

726
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: been said. What I would add is that even though

727
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 3: there are all of these traditional sort of ways of marketing,

728
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: like social media or I guess social media is becoming

729
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: a bit more traditional, talking to other therapists, talking to

730
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 3: other doctors. I have personally found that working with other

731
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: agencies that are full and overflowing has been a really

732
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: great way to also get in the door. And I

733
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: find that talking to many different folks who are not

734
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 3: necessarily in the mental health world or connected to the

735
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: mental health world tend to really not have a strong

736
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 3: understanding of what we do. So I find myself even

737
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 3: there was a time at the airport not too long ago,

738
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: or ended up like explaining what it means to be

739
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: a trauma therapist, and it opened up this whole conversation.

740
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 3: I was even able to get a referral from that,

741
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 3: So I think it's really important to remember that our

742
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 3: referrals can come from even very obscure and peculiar places.

743
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. It's a therapists

744
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: entire job, the whole space for the feelings of others,

745
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: but doing that work can take an emotional toll. And

746
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: let's be real, not all of us are practicing what

747
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: we preach when it comes to making time for our

748
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: own self care as therapists. So if you're looking to

749
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: find more ways to take care of yourself outside of

750
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: your work as a therapist and aren't sure where at

751
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: to start, here's some guidance from Josephine and doctor Oriowo.

752
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: You talked about it a little bit, doctor oriwell in

753
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: terms of the toll of like just trying to keep

754
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: track of all of this stuff. But I think the

755
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: other thing is the mental health told of just being

756
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: a therapist, right, So again, I think that's a lot.

757
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: We don't always know what we're getting into when we

758
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: become therapists, and a part of training is like teaching

759
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: you how to like undergo these difficult conversations with clients

760
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: and like how to not take it home and like

761
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: all of these different kinds of things. Though some of

762
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: our social media comments included so asked Bianca Sig wrote

763
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: how exhausting it can be and that sometimes I just

764
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: don't want to talk, which I think is a very

765
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: real you hear a lot of therapists say stuff like that.

766
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: Kindly beat It also wrote I didn't expect to have

767
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: so much counter transference and to feel the pain as

768
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: I've struggled with compartmentalization. So I think it is important

769
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: to remember, you know, we are actual humans who are

770
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: operating as therapists. We're not like therapeuticals. And so some

771
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: of the times stuff that our clients say like we

772
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: may have personally experienced with right, And it really is

773
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: a process of kind of learning how to separate your

774
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: stuff from your clients stuff so that you can be

775
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: there to support them. Doctor Orriowell, can you talk a

776
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: little bit about some of the mental health impact and

777
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: like what kinds of things future therapists need to be

778
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: aware of how to take care of themselves as they

779
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: also hold space for clients.

780
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 4: I am a person that believes that proper self care

781
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 4: comes with great self knowledge.

782
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 2: If you don't know yourself, it.

783
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 4: Is very difficult to take care of yourself because you

784
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 4: don't know you well enough to know what you need.

785
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: Sometimes we learn by trial and error, but sometimes you know,

786
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: they say no, better, but we don't do better. Right,

787
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 4: We know better, but we don't change up what we're doing.

788
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 4: So one thing that I learned is that I had

789
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 4: to cap how many clients I was actually seeing in

790
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 4: a day and in a week. There was a magic

791
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 4: number where I felt good about what I was doing

792
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: and not overtaxed. I had to get some better bouts.

793
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 4: I was not emailing or looking at stuff, and had

794
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 4: a quiet time at the time that I needed it.

795
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 4: I don't like seeing morning clients first thing in the morning.

796
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: I'm looking line.

797
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to talk to nobody at seven and

798
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 4: eight am, And yet some of these therapists out here

799
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 4: they be doing that. I'm like, that's your ministry, that's

800
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 4: not my ministry. So for me and for mine, the

801
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 4: day started at noon until recently, because now I'm like, oh,

802
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: I like a nine am every other Monday, not every

803
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 4: single Monday. But I use that knowledge of myself to

804
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 4: create a schedule that felt good for me and so

805
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 4: that I wasn't drained, And I definitely agree with what

806
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 4: you said. I'm a person first, so some of that

807
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 4: has been making sure that I'm actually properly fed and hydrated.

808
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 4: Some of it is making sure I'm appropriately rested, and

809
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 4: sometimes looking at the chaos. If there is chaos in

810
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 4: my life, I have to determine am I really in

811
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 4: the best position to be doing the work that I'm

812
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 4: doing right now to in this moment?

813
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: Do I need to reschedule people? Do I need to

814
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: move people?

815
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 4: So for me, I like seeing clients on Monday, and

816
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 4: I'm at a point in my practice now where I

817
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 4: only see Monday clients. I don't do therapy the rest

818
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 4: of the week. I cap my day at seven. Once

819
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 4: I start getting into that eight nine territory, don't feel

820
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 4: good no more. And after every two to three clients,

821
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 4: I have an hour break. So yeah, it might take

822
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 4: me the entire day to do the therapy day, but

823
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 4: I'm taking regular breaks for my mental and emotional wellbeing.

824
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 4: I talk to black women, so if something touches me

825
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 4: a little extra close, I modulate what I'm going to

826
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 4: say next, and I have to ask myself is this for.

827
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: You or is it for them?

828
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 4: I ask that question and that helps me every single time.

829
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 4: But I would also say that another way to simply

830
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 4: just modulate, And I'll give it with a baby story.

831
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 4: Back when I first started private practice, I took any

832
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 4: client that would have me. So I was seeing children,

833
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 4: I was seeing adults, I was seeing people of color,

834
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 4: I saw black people, I saw white people, right, I

835
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 4: was seeing everybody. And it wasn't until I niched that

836
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 4: I stopped feeling so drained. Because the point is I

837
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 4: didn't like working with kids. The kids were not the problem.

838
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 4: I didn't like that they came with parents. Didn't like

839
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 4: working with their parents because it required extra work and

840
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 4: extra energy that was often not paid for right, and

841
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 4: it felt like there was no real return other than

842
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 4: to say, hey, you keep.

843
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: Undoing the work that I do in the therapy room with.

844
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 4: Your kid, like, please stop. So I stopped seeing kids

845
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 4: because I knew that wasn't my ministry. I did not

846
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 4: want to spend an abundance of my day seeing white

847
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 4: folk and trying to get them to understand that you

848
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: saying the N word to me might lead to us

849
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 4: having to fight, right, Because in that moment I am

850
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 4: a therapist. I'm not your therapist. We go, we could

851
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: get down with the get down, call me a in

852
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 4: one more time. So I had to realize that I

853
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 4: needed to niche in. This is unpopular opinion in some way,

854
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 4: but I believe that my clients also pour into me

855
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 4: as I pour into them. I believe that there is

856
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 4: reciprocity there, and that the reciprocity does not come with

857
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 4: the payment, but it comes with how they show up

858
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 4: and see you as a person and you are seeing

859
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 4: them as a person. Right, the therapeutic relationship should be

860
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 4: a reciprocal relationship. It should still be mostly heavy sided

861
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 4: on one end, but it shouldn't feel like I'm a

862
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 4: dumping ground either. I do not do dumping ground therapy.

863
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 4: I am not your place to lay all your stuff

864
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 4: and leave. I'm a processing center, as in, you put

865
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 4: it down, We're gonna process it, but I'm gonna give

866
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 4: it back. That stuff is not mine and having to

867
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 4: make sure that I remember that it is not mine.

868
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 4: But niching down helped me to also feel a lot

869
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 4: less strained in doing this work.

870
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. What about you, Josephine.

871
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: This is a.

872
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: Lesson that I am learning as I'm going along, because

873
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: I think that with getting all of these hours done,

874
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: I wanted to get them done as quickly as possible.

875
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 3: I did not want to be working on these hours

876
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 3: for years and years and years on end. So I

877
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: burned myself out getting those hours done. Colorado is one

878
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: of the few states where you can open a private

879
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: practice before you're fully licensed, as long as you have

880
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 3: a supervisor. So I was working in my private practice,

881
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 3: working in a bunch of different environments, seeing anyone, well

882
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 3: mostly anyone who would come in the door, because I

883
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 3: wanted to get those hours done. I highly recommend that

884
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: that not be the process, because once I got to

885
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 3: the LCSW, I was barely able to enjoy it because

886
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: I was so tired from what I had put myself

887
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 3: through in those last two years. So I think in

888
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 3: terms of not burning out or being able to make sure,

889
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 3: I definitely agree with doctor Donna that niching is so important,

890
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: and also knowing that just because someone else's client load

891
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: looks one way does not mean that it has to

892
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 3: look that way for you, especially in.

893
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,399
Speaker 2: The environment that I am in.

894
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: I see some white clients, but they have to be

895
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: a really good fit for me, like they have to

896
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: really be feeding into the work that I do. And

897
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: I say straight up to my clients, if you say

898
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 3: anything racist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islam, if there's a phobic or

899
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: an ism at the end, you are not going to

900
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: work out because I have to protect my energy and

901
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: I have to protect my well being as a therapist

902
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: in order to be able to serve everyone else that's

903
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 3: on my caseload along with you. So I think for

904
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: black women who are coming into being therapists, there is

905
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: nothing wrong if you just want to see black women. Frankly,

906
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 3: if I could go back and do it all over again,

907
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 3: that's probably the way I would go back and do it.

908
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: I also think that there's a lot of worth in

909
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 3: being able to learn how to say no, not only

910
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: say no in terms of clients, being able to say no.

911
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 3: If you're working in an agency, or if you're in

912
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 3: a training and there's something that is actually harmful or

913
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 3: another professional says something that actually is more harmful than helpful,

914
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: being able to say that is not okay with me.

915
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: So I think that's how I protect a lot of

916
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 3: my energy now is by learning how to say no

917
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 3: and being able to hold that space and really prioritize

918
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 3: what's important to me. I find that teaching brings me

919
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 3: a lot of joy. Before being a therapist, that was

920
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: a teacher. So coming back in and teaching at the

921
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 3: graduate level, I find that brings me a lot of

922
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 3: peace and a lot of joy. So I'm going to

923
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 3: put more time into that then to put my time

924
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 3: into trying to fill up my caseload. So I would say,

925
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 3: especially if folks are working toward hours, like the hours

926
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 3: can't come before the mental health and the well being.

927
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 3: If it takes you two and a half years rather

928
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 3: than it taking two years, it takes you four years

929
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: rather than two years, that's fine because the hope is

930
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: that you're able to get to the finish line in

931
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: one piece and able to continue doing the work after

932
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 3: you've finished the hours. Because if you get to that

933
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: point where you're so burned out that you can't even

934
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 3: continue after the out, then what was then what was

935
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 3: the point of doing the thing? So I find that

936
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: a lot of times I have to remind myself that

937
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 3: it's not okay for me to burn myself out and

938
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: I'm worth taking care of to the point now where

939
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 3: I stick almost pretty strictly to fifty five minute sessions,

940
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: so that I have five minutes to go to the restroom,

941
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 3: grab a bite to eat, stand outside for a few

942
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 3: seconds before I come back in because I know as

943
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 3: a person I have to replenish myself. I can do

944
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: eight in a row. That's not a big problem for me,

945
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 3: but I need that forty minutes that is comprised into

946
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 3: those five minutes to be able to decompress, breathe before

947
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 3: I go into the next one.

948
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: I want to think Josephine, doctor Apple White, doctor Jackson,

949
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: and doctor Oriole will once again for joining me for

950
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: these episodes. To learn more about the work that they're doing,

951
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: be sure to visit our show notes at Therapy for

952
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot Com Session three sixty six, and don't forget

953
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: to text this episode to two of your girls right

954
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: now and tell them to check it out. If you're

955
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist

956
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And

957
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic or

958
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: just be a community with others, come on over and

959
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner

960
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: of the Internet design just for Black women. You can

961
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

962
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: and if you want to check out all the other

963
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: programming we have in store for Minority Mental Health Awareness Month,

964
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash

965
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: mm HM. This episode was produced by Alice Ellis and

966
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all

967
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look

968
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

969
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: Take good care.

970
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: What's