1
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,000
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Wide Open with Ashland Harris.

2
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 1: I'm so excited today to introduce our guests. Coco Rocha,

3
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thank you, beautiful talented supermodel as

4
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 1: we all know, but there's so much more to you

5
00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: besides what you do. You're a co founder of you

6
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,320
Speaker 1: in your own model agency, Nomad, and you have your

7
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: own modeling.

8
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,520
Speaker 2: Camp correct that I.

9
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: Really can't wait to talk to you about because I

10
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 1: can I sign up.

11
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,080
Speaker 3: Yes, of course I have to stop calling it model camp.

12
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,879
Speaker 3: It started off models, but really it is kind of

13
00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 3: like life coaching, life coaching, and I really love it watching.

14
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 2: Your videos in the way you move. Do you take

15
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 2: a bad photo?

16
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 3: Is my friend? I mean, like, I don't believe in

17
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 3: a bad.

18
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 1: Photo, clearly not. I've never seen a bad photo of you.

19
00:00:58,680 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 1: That must be a gift.

20
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 3: There you go. No, I mean, I come from dance background,

21
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,120
Speaker 3: and so to me, it is a performance. I never

22
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 3: thought this was something I was going to do, so

23
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 3: I just kind of challenge the creative space of movement

24
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 3: and dance, and I think of it as a stage.

25
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 3: So I don't take it as seriously, I guess as

26
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,560
Speaker 3: some people might think. Models do. We're not living some

27
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:24,120
Speaker 3: Zoolander experience. So it's just it's fun. And if someone

28
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 3: picks a photo I don't like it, well I guess

29
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 3: they thought we express something I don't see. And I

30
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,760
Speaker 3: always say I see the vision, meaning I might not

31
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 3: necessarily love it, but I get I understand it enough.

32
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 3: And to that point I started to have more and

33
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 3: more confidence. And that's really it. It's like, do I

34
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 3: agree that every photo looks good? No? But do I

35
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,920
Speaker 3: have the confidence to just go ahead and just take it? Yeah?

36
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 2: What I love so much about what you just said,

37
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 2: is it.

38
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 1: I don't take it so seriously because I say that

39
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 1: all the time and people are like, oh my god,

40
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 1: the pressure of this and that, and I'm like, I'm

41
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,920
Speaker 1: not cureing cancer.

42
00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,440
Speaker 2: No, I feel no pressure.

43
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,280
Speaker 3: It's exactly what I say.

44
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 1: I'm a performer. Yeah, I'm out here having fun. But

45
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,320
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I want to know who Cocoa was as

46
00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: a young girl from Yeah, you're from Canada. You know

47
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: you have this incredible background. So I've danced my.

48
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 3: Dance a dancer, but not any kind. I was an

49
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 3: Irish dancer, so you know, I was like cool kids,

50
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 3: go clearly, no, about when I was when river Dance

51
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 3: came out, I started it, and then years later I

52
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,919
Speaker 3: was scouted at a dance competition. So there was this

53
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 3: model scout just there. At first I thought he was

54
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,679
Speaker 3: a predator because I'm fourteen, yes, and I have no

55
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,919
Speaker 3: understanding of fashion. I mean, we don't have Google Search

56
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 3: at this point. We just have like wind up Internet.

57
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 3: So I'm not younger than me.

58
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 2: Be easy, yeah, I mean like we.

59
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 3: Are just two years girl. But it was it was

60
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 3: not an era where I could like search what is

61
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,800
Speaker 3: a model? So for this individual to come up to me,

62
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 3: I just thought strange. But just so we all get

63
00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,559
Speaker 3: a little background. His daughter danced tens, why he was okay,

64
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 3: and he kept approaching my mom and me a few

65
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 3: dance competitions in and I just kept laughing, thinking like,

66
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 3: out of all of us, out of all these girls,

67
00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,079
Speaker 3: this tall, dangly human is the one that you keep

68
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 3: saying should model. So my mom I remember saying, fine,

69
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 3: well we'll try it out, just like a little session.

70
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,520
Speaker 3: And I have those photos. I look at them, going

71
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 3: who saw anything? Still? But lo and behold those were

72
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 3: the photos that I came to New York and no

73
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,800
Speaker 3: one wanted me, No one wanted. I got signed, but

74
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 3: no one else wanted me.

75
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 2: Find that very quarantine.

76
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 3: She was just a tall like unaware of And there

77
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 3: was this very famous photographer named Stephen Mazel. If no,

78
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 3: if some people not understand the industry, he is what

79
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 3: we call the model maker. He really helped and founding

80
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,320
Speaker 3: sort of the supermodel era. And I had a casting

81
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 3: request if I were to I had returned back to Canada,

82
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 3: and they said, if I ever come back to America,

83
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 3: I'll I get to meet this individual. But again me

84
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,600
Speaker 3: being me, being like okay, well cool, don't know what

85
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 3: that means. But funny enough, I wasn't allowed to ever

86
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,039
Speaker 3: return back to America because I got a stamp saying

87
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 3: like you're no longer allowed to come here, because they

88
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,919
Speaker 3: had realized I had crossed the border maybe too many times,

89
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 3: and young me, just listening to the adults in the room,

90
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 3: I did what I was told. So I was actually

91
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,359
Speaker 3: sent off to Asia for many months to work on

92
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 3: my book. What we wait? Wait?

93
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 2: How old?

94
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 3: I was fifteen, just turned and my mom. I love

95
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,800
Speaker 3: my mom, she's taking care of my kids right now. However,

96
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 3: she sent me. She came with me to Taypei, and

97
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 3: she was like, looks good, I'm out. And for two

98
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 3: months I stayed in Taipei. I worked every day. I

99
00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 3: would do double booking, so I'd work in the morning

100
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 3: and I would work in the e and then I

101
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:01,799
Speaker 3: would get my Sundays off.

102
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,440
Speaker 2: I made money, oh yeah.

103
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 3: But I also learned hard work. I've never experienced work

104
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,839
Speaker 3: like that, because it was just like, you're here only

105
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 3: two months, We're going to work as much of these

106
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,719
Speaker 3: hours as humanly possible. So when I returned, I was

107
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 3: then sent to Singapore and that is where I learned

108
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 3: the art of like beautiful imagery. So I learned work,

109
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,719
Speaker 3: and now I learned imagery. And finally I was allowed

110
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,800
Speaker 3: to come back to America with the write papers and

111
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 3: I got to have that meeting with Steven okay, and

112
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,480
Speaker 3: it wasn't a meeting. I was immediately going to shoot

113
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,839
Speaker 3: Italian Vogue in LA with all these other top models.

114
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,400
Speaker 3: But again, knowing nothing, I just went. But my background

115
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,479
Speaker 3: now was I was a catalog model, and the way

116
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,600
Speaker 3: we move is just these very quick movements.

117
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's just click click, click, clicklick.

118
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 3: If you've seen on YouTube, it's like there's this famous

119
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 3: Asian model that like and they can just move so fast.

120
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 3: And Stephen saw that that me was like, Okay, we're

121
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,239
Speaker 3: gonna hone in on this weird thing that you're doing,

122
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,119
Speaker 3: but I'm gonna help you with it. And so after

123
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 3: my six months exclusive with him, I was allowed to

124
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,040
Speaker 3: work with the rest of the world. And because they

125
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 3: had in their mind this is a Stephen model, they

126
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 3: see that I work this certain new way of movement.

127
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,679
Speaker 3: I've never been told from that day like I should

128
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 3: not pose this way. Of course you don't like my style,

129
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,680
Speaker 3: but they can't hold it against me that it is different,

130
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 3: and they usually bring it to Stephen.

131
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,359
Speaker 1: And the only way I can connect and correlate is

132
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:41,840
Speaker 1: playing a sport. So many people always suggest doing dance

133
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,359
Speaker 1: because of the fluid movement, and you become so in

134
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 1: touch and in tune with your body and how it

135
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: moves and how it looks and all these different angles,

136
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,040
Speaker 1: which I assume made you such a standout at such

137
00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,839
Speaker 1: an early age, because usually I'm one of them.

138
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:00,799
Speaker 2: I didn't dance.

139
00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,039
Speaker 1: I just started like dancing after I retired because I

140
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 1: wanted something to do. But you always talk about touching

141
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,080
Speaker 1: your body is such a crutch, like try to pose

142
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 1: just freely and moving and don't even like do the

143
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 1: hand on the hip or touch this hand in the pocket.

144
00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: I am a hand on the pocket kind of girl

145
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 1: on the red carpet. I need to go to your

146
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 1: coaching because I'm like, I get so uncomfortable for some

147
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 1: reason just on the red carpet. Yeah, you can shoot

148
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: me all day in production and I have no issue,

149
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: but I'm like, what do I do? I'm in a suit.

150
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 1: This looks awkward, like do I oh, do I put it?

151
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 3: I get it? I don't know what to do. For years,

152
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 3: red carpet it was funny. I was already known for

153
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 3: the model that can move, but then on red carpet,

154
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 3: I was like I thought there was rules, like this

155
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 3: is how we had to portare ourselves. But over time

156
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 3: I think it was probably Can Film Festival, like the

157
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 3: Red carpet is a beast, that one's scary, and I

158
00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 3: was like, you're already known for the one that moves,

159
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 3: to just go go ahead and move and no joke.

160
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 3: Since then, like every time I go in the red carpet,

161
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 3: it's it's you know, the team of photographers for sure,

162
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,840
Speaker 3: but they just like Coco's coming. Yeah, and then I'm like,

163
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,480
Speaker 3: I feel like Mickey Mouse, do your thing. So I

164
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,760
Speaker 3: get it because there's a strange like we have to

165
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 3: come off eloquent, like you know how in your speech

166
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 3: you you have to speak a certain way in your interviews. Yeah,

167
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 3: it's also our movement and our body movement and red carpets.

168
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 3: We feel like we have to hit these poses. So anyways,

169
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 3: I realize have fun. Clearly we're all trying to do

170
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 3: something here to business. We're trying to create some photos,

171
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 3: and these photographers deserve something fun. And from that I realized, like,

172
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,720
Speaker 3: go for it, so hand in pocket or not in pocket?

173
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: Now getting my wheels turning, I'm like, can you imagine

174
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 1: if I started hitting, all.

175
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 3: These people will be talking.

176
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 2: They would be those photographers that they do.

177
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 3: They would be like thank you. Well.

178
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,319
Speaker 2: Also, there's some screaming this way this night I turn

179
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:56,679
Speaker 2: this way.

180
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I'm like, can everyone bring it down the

181
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:06,319
Speaker 1: little bit now, because you're stressful, like when you're literally

182
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: like that's what I love so much about editorial, which

183
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,040
Speaker 1: clearly nowhere near what you've done, but like it is

184
00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: so calm, which people don't realize. It's so safe, Like,

185
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 1: especially when you have the rate right photographers, they just

186
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 1: they make it so calm and cool where you really

187
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 1: can just like bring your best self to the table

188
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 1: and do what you do best. And I can imagine

189
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 1: not all photographers are like that.

190
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely some egos they get involved. I always

191
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 3: just at camp when I'm training the models, they will

192
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 3: express stories and tell us things about like what they

193
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 3: are dealing with, and it is so frustrating that one

194
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 3: of the things is they just don't feel safe on

195
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 3: their photoshoots. And that's the place that you should. I mean,

196
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,960
Speaker 3: if I'm going into a room full of people that

197
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 3: are are creative and love what they do, no one

198
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 3: should make me feel overwhelmed or scared or unsafe. So yeah,

199
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 3: when I work the people I'm surrounded by, I'm like,

200
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 3: you're the best. You're so good at makeup, hair and nails, photography, lighting,

201
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 3: the lighting guy. Oh, and everyone deserves like credit. But

202
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 3: no one should feel uncomfortable in a room. No, And

203
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 3: it's sad to say that there are still a lot

204
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,640
Speaker 3: of models that find themselves in a room that they

205
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,719
Speaker 3: shouldn't be in based off of just assuming because it's

206
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 3: a modeling job that it's all going to be okay.

207
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you know, you grew up in the

208
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,680
Speaker 1: industry and you grew up and it's so young in

209
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 1: the early two thousands, and it was a completely different

210
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,040
Speaker 1: landscape because there wasn't social media there.

211
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 2: There wasn't this huge digital you know, need for.

212
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:51,160
Speaker 1: Constant content like now. It's just like people want content,

213
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 1: content content. I was a little girl, I wanted magazines, magazines, magazines.

214
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to flip throughom flip flip, flip, flip flip,

215
00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:58,679
Speaker 1: like I needed to touch it.

216
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 2: There was something so unique and special about thou.

217
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,440
Speaker 1: There's so much work that goes into what you do

218
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: to bring these campaigns, these the wardrobe, the fashion to life,

219
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,040
Speaker 1: like you know, you have all these creators and directors

220
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,960
Speaker 1: and lighting and photographers, but it's really up to you

221
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 1: to bring the vision alive to us who are consuming it.

222
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: And I don't think models get enough credit for it,

223
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 1: Like that's a lot of responsibility.

224
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 3: I'm usually the opposite with the girls. Sometimes that's the

225
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 3: you know, they they come with a bit too much

226
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,960
Speaker 3: belief that it's all on them, Like they might come

227
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 3: thinking like, well, my ideas and what I believe in

228
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 3: and what I want should be the first and foremost.

229
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 3: And I remind them like you are just a canvas.

230
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 3: Like in the end, they can either paint Picasso on

231
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,000
Speaker 3: you or then the Mona Lisa. But it is up

232
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 3: to them to decide which direction we're going. The only

233
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,560
Speaker 3: thing we get to to bring forward is our morals

234
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,319
Speaker 3: and values. If I don't feel okay, I'm going to

235
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: speak up. But other than that, I got to take

236
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 3: this piece of art that they've created and sell it

237
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 3: to the world or just to leave in a museum

238
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 3: for the people to see. And I think this day

239
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 3: and age, what's different from our day and age was

240
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,320
Speaker 3: that they assume they're playing themselves, that they get to

241
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 3: dictate what's going on, and they're not the art directors.

242
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,720
Speaker 3: We are not. And I say they us as models

243
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 3: are not the art directors. We are not the clients.

244
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,320
Speaker 3: We come here with the job and responsibility of taking

245
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:37,080
Speaker 3: all their ideas and creating this hopefully beautiful image. And

246
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 3: so I always remind people that our sole purpose is

247
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 3: just to make people feel something. And if someone looks

248
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,800
Speaker 3: at my images and goes, eh, and like we did it,

249
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 3: we did something. Because at this day and age, like

250
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,160
Speaker 3: you said, it's not flip through a magazine and think

251
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 3: about it. It swipes, swipes, swipe, swipe, and then they're

252
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 3: not thinking about it.

253
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,679
Speaker 1: When you go back to your younger self between fifteen

254
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 1: and probably twenty three, because you know, at.

255
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 2: Eighteen, you were already in vogue.

256
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you're already with the most incredible brands

257
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 1: out there. I mean everyone wanted you so compared to

258
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,880
Speaker 1: where you're at now teaching these new models, what do

259
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,520
Speaker 1: you think about that early beginning of your model career

260
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: where it was so sexualized. It was so about skinny, skinny, skinny,

261
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:31,439
Speaker 1: one size, that's it.

262
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 2: You like, you have to look this way, you have

263
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,319
Speaker 2: to be tall, you have to like there was so much.

264
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 1: Negativity when it came to different types of body types.

265
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 2: Yet we all uniquely are so different.

266
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,960
Speaker 1: And I'm curious when you think back to your younger self,

267
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,520
Speaker 1: how has the industry changed and how did you find

268
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 1: your voice to say, I'm not doing that.

269
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 2: I'm not selling my soul to the devil.

270
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 1: That is absolutely not what I'm about and I'm not

271
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,559
Speaker 1: going to compromise who I am, what I'm about, how

272
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: I show up to sexualize something that doesn't feel true

273
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:11,840
Speaker 1: to me.

274
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,840
Speaker 3: So when I started, I heard plenty full of people

275
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 3: saying that if you want this, you'll say yes to

276
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 3: whatever was the yes, and I didn't really understand that

277
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 3: quite at that time. I just thought, well, yeah, I

278
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 3: mean like, I'll do whatever I'm supposed to do because

279
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 3: I'm the kid, you're the adult, so duh. But I

280
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,800
Speaker 3: remember the first scenarios where like, okay, take your top off.

281
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, this is what yes meant. They meant

282
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 3: I will remove clothing that I felt uncomfortable to do.

283
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 3: And when someone had said to me, if you want this,

284
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,200
Speaker 3: you'll do whatever, I remember just saying did I say

285
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 3: I wanted this? It was more of an opportunity. It

286
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 3: was just kind of a summer thing, I thought at

287
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 3: one point. Then it was that one time in Asia,

288
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 3: and then the second time in Asia. It was never

289
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 3: like this is it you need this or else? So

290
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 3: to me, there wasn't the pressure of I have to

291
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 3: have this. But then once it started to be successful,

292
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 3: they switched it to we aren't you just so lucky?

293
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 3: So do not ruin this because you you know, you've

294
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,040
Speaker 3: been given an opportunity and you're gonna waste it based

295
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 3: off of what your morals and values. And yes, I

296
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 3: grew up in a family where morals and values mattered.

297
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 3: Whatever was mine were there mine, and I'm allowed to

298
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 3: have that. And I was now in an industry where

299
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 3: I was looked as like ridiculous, but it was some

300
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 3: very powerful people, including Steven Misel no joke. I remember

301
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 3: that first shoot someone said the stylist said I was seventeen,

302
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 3: and he said, okay, you're going to take your top up.

303
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,000
Speaker 3: This was the stylus, but they didn't ask how old

304
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 3: I was either, so nothing against them, but it was

305
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,160
Speaker 3: just more like, okay, here we go, shoot time. And

306
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 3: I was mortified because I remember everyone saying if Steven says,

307
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 3: you do, and little me going, I really don't want this.

308
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I've been told this is

309
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 3: not an opportunity everyone gets. So I just remember being

310
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,360
Speaker 3: my robe and Stephen before this shot was coming, he

311
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 3: said how old are you? When I was like seventeen,

312
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,640
Speaker 3: and he screamed at the room. He was like, how

313
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 3: dare you all? She's underage? What do you think you're doing?

314
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 3: And I thought, oh my goodness, if this powerful man cares,

315
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 3: don't anyone else beneath him. I don't care if I

316
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 3: displease him, like he showed me that my age mattered,

317
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 3: but also just like he could tell I was uncomfortable.

318
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 3: And so from that point on I tried really hard

319
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,359
Speaker 3: to speak up for myself. Now are there photos? I'm like, eugh, yeah.

320
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,320
Speaker 3: But then there was at a certain point where she

321
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 3: needed someone to speak to the CFDA as a model

322
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 3: at the time and say like, what's happening backstage? What

323
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 3: do we need to work on now? Don't forget this

324
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 3: is the time where I was considered the plus size model.

325
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 3: What I was the range of what was bigger at

326
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 3: the time, doping call a plus size model because that

327
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,640
Speaker 3: word didn't exist. It was just the fat model. And

328
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 3: not that she came with that intention. She just knew

329
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 3: I was already dealing with a lot. So she was like, well,

330
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 3: you'll go and talk to all the designers in America.

331
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 3: So in a room. This wasn't a press conference thing.

332
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,120
Speaker 3: It was just me standing there saying this is what's

333
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 3: going on with me, and like let's all do better.

334
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 3: And it was things like I spoke about that I

335
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 3: was on diretic pills at the time, that I had

336
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 3: lost my period for a year already at that point

337
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 3: that people in that room had got me to this point,

338
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 3: And why can't you just change your double zero standard

339
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 3: to a two or a zero at least. And because

340
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 3: she gave me that platform, every time I would go

341
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 3: to fittings or something, she would be you know, around

342
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,400
Speaker 3: I don't know why I always around it my fin

343
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 3: and she would remind me, be like, remember you remember

344
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 3: what you stand for. Remember what you were talking about now? Yes,

345
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 3: when you spoke to her about like we need range,

346
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,399
Speaker 3: this was a time where all you saw was a

347
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 3: white model age fourteen five ten. Most of us had

348
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 3: an Eastern European descendant. They called it the whitewashing of era.

349
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 3: There was like a black modeled tokenism where you'd see

350
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 3: one in a range of seventy in the in a show.

351
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 3: So it was a backwards and again to remind you,

352
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 3: I was only maybe fifteen pounds heavier than I am

353
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,160
Speaker 3: now and I was considered the girl that was being

354
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 3: used as a token for being bigger.

355
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,919
Speaker 2: And how did that like hearing that?

356
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: Because I like, I think back too to the time

357
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 1: when we were growing up and like diet pills were

358
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: such a big thing and they like had these caffeinated

359
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,959
Speaker 1: diet pills that were uppers, and everyone was I mean,

360
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 1: you can go to seven.

361
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,959
Speaker 2: You could go to a gas station and get it.

362
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: What crazy measures because of the pressure that these people

363
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: put on you at such a young age, like at fifteen, seventeen, eighteen,

364
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: Like you don't even know yourself right, so like how

365
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 1: can you even and stand up for the things you

366
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 1: think are right or wrong? Like you're still learning in

367
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 1: real time what that means. And now you're professional and

368
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: now everyone wants you like how did that affect how

369
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: you felt about yourself and your body.

370
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,719
Speaker 3: I think what's very lucky for me is that I

371
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 3: started off with no and people like this can't be wrong.

372
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, I was a dancer through and through, Like

373
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 3: all I did was train and then that was it.

374
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,439
Speaker 3: So I wasn't looking at my body being like I

375
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 3: don't like this. It was just dance. Like I had

376
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 3: to feed the body. I needed to work the body,

377
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 3: and I was it so to come into the industry

378
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,679
Speaker 3: and then people like you're amazing. I'm like thanks, okay,

379
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,879
Speaker 3: And then actually, or not quite quickly, I was like,

380
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 3: oh what do you mean? Like now I started to

381
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 3: be like, oh, I see what you see. But I

382
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 3: don't think a young teenager now entering in with such

383
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 3: self aware could have dealt well. They still do deal

384
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 3: with it, but it was such a different, strange thing

385
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 3: because now we can, like we can go on social

386
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,719
Speaker 3: media and talk about whatever some just said to us.

387
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 3: We can we can blast the world and tell them.

388
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 3: Then there was no way for me to communicate like

389
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 3: hey that backstage that was creepy and that just happened

390
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 3: to me over here. So it was all kept and

391
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 3: bottled in. We didn't even talk as models. I only

392
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 3: one or two of my friends. I remember just sobbing

393
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 3: and we were just cry about like how people were

394
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 3: treating us. But then you just put it back in

395
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 3: and then you smile the rest of the day and

396
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 3: it's now affecting us. I talked to these models we're

397
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 3: now doing like a show together. I'm like, wow, did

398
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 3: you just get triggered by seeing that person? And like

399
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 3: didn't you just feel that when that just happened. So

400
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: it's not fixed. Clearly we were broken then, but we

401
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 3: didn't realize it much. We just dealt with it because

402
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 3: that's how society works.

403
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because we normalized women would shut up and

404
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: just do their job and they would suffer in silence,

405
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: and we didn't want to take up too much space.

406
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 1: We had to feel grateful for every opportune.

407
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

408
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: I went through it, you know, with terrible standards in soccer.

409
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: It was always, well, be grateful you have this platform,

410
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: be grateful you're making money, be grateful you have access

411
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 1: to these things. And it's like, oh, but actually you're

412
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: treating me like shit, and this is like very problematic.

413
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 3: And I try to remind models, like, personally, I don't

414
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 3: shoot lingerie, so clearly I'm not going to get a

415
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 3: Victoria's Secret campaign, but my besties did and do I

416
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 3: you know, look at them and go ugh no, I'm

417
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 3: like proud that you could get something that you feel

418
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 3: comfortable doing as long as you've always felt comfortable doing it.

419
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 3: And then people go, oh, so you don't need to

420
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 3: want the Victoria's Secret campaign or the whatever, like, you

421
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: can also have other things like it's not the epitome.

422
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, what is it that speaks to you

423
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 3: and whatever that is, then find those projects and then

424
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 3: let someone else have that platform because they're gonna love it.

425
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: I think nowadays, yes, we are outspoken. We talk about it,

426
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: but it still shocks me at model camp. How many

427
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,479
Speaker 3: models say to me, but do I have to whatever

428
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 3: the thing is, I'm like, no, I told you.

429
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: And that's interesting, right, because so much like we grew

430
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: up idolizing Victoria's Secret Angels like that was I mean,

431
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: I remember everyone would turn it on TV and there

432
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: would always be performances and it was just.

433
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 2: Like such a vibe.

434
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: And you're right, not everyone feels comfortable walking that runway

435
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: with lingerie or nothing on barely at all.

436
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: Did they come knocking at your door?

437
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: Ah? I did have a few projects with them, Yeah,

438
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 3: but of course they knew me, and like Coca doesn't

439
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 3: do lingerie, so what do we do? So I did

440
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: pajamas and I remembered them just we. I worked with

441
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 3: one of my besties Bahati Prince Lou and she is

442
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 3: a or it wasn't is an angel and they tried

443
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: to Paris together. It's just so funny. Your bestie doesn't

444
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 3: mean that you can shoot well together. She was just

445
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 3: the girl that was the VS girl and I and

446
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: people think when I say this that I I'm not

447
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 3: secure as myself. I'm super secure, So it's okay, but

448
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 3: I'm the girl that you put five hours of hair

449
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 3: and makeup. I transform. But the VS models I always

450
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 3: joke that, like you put some spit in your hand

451
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: and you rub it on a face ANDVA they're like great.

452
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: So I remember the shoot and they were like this

453
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 3: two things don't go together. And I would just remember

454
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 3: being like, sometimes it's just not for you, like me

455
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 3: selling pajamas and they were like, what do we do

456
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 3: with her? I remember the photo is me jumping over

457
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 3: a street cone because they were like, what does go go? No?

458
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 3: So I was just like all happy and bubbly, and

459
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: Bahati was all like giving her her stuff. And it

460
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 3: just made me realize that we can't force something even

461
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: though it's not something for me. So yes, I love Dearly,

462
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 3: the girls that work with them and the team that

463
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 3: they're around. It just never fit because one they don't

464
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 3: do lingerie, but the other parts components to it. It

465
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 3: didn't work either, So I bow out. I let let

466
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 3: other people do it. But yeah, I'm the model that

467
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 3: you bring in to literally transform. Like if you have

468
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 3: an idea, you want to bleach my eyebrows, you want

469
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: to make me look alien, you want to put me

470
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 3: on mars. I'm all for it. I'm the one that

471
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: you bring in. But usually the one the way you're like,

472
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 3: no makeup, your hair's beachy, and you just walk on

473
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: the beach. Probably not your girl. I'm I'm not it.

474
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: I highly doubt that, but I'm laughing because you're just like, listen,

475
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: I've been in this for a long time. I know

476
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: what I'm good at, I know what I'm not, but

477
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: like that ain't.

478
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: Evering it just for some reason, it just like doesn't

479
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: click with everyone. I'm the one that they give me

480
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 3: the characters that they're like, is she evil? Is she weird?

481
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 3: Is she sexy? Who knows?

482
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.

483
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

484
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: People don't realize how technical it is, Like your job

485
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: is so technical.

486
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 3: I agree, But it is funny how like someone asked

487
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 3: questions like how do you take a good picture? And

488
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, you just stand there in.

489
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: Confide either you kind of either have to have it

490
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 2: or you don't.

491
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: Right. I just think again, like weirdly, how we understand lighting,

492
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: we understand concept, we understand what the video or the

493
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: camera is getting and not getting. But then again, it's

494
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: just it's all a team effort.

495
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: Like, it's just it's not as easy as people think.

496
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: And all of the lighting you're looking into all day.

497
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: My head, I'm like, oh my god, it's gonna explode.

498
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: Like I can't keep doing this my mouth, my face,

499
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: my body.

500
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know.

501
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: I'm trying to like flex and like suck in and

502
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: like hit that angle. And I'm like, what the I

503
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: just you're just over here dancing and free and beautiful,

504
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Dan, damn, that's what it's.

505
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: Supposed to be. Like thanks. Yeah, it's an odd Yeah,

506
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: it's an odd thing. Again, it's like a performance in

507
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: the The goal for me is everyone in the room,

508
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: and sometimes the production can have I remember I had

509
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 3: a team full of two hundred and fifty people. What

510
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: were they all doing? I'm not sure, but I wanted

511
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: one to at the end of that, just like applaud.

512
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: I want them to cry. I want something or they're

513
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: just like I've never experienced that before. That was the

514
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: coolest thing. Uh, And you know that's why you are you.

515
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 3: That is always the goal. So some models, some people,

516
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 3: even celebrities, I always say to them, what is the

517
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: main goal out of your photo shoot. And they'll say,

518
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 3: like the photo, the photo needs to look really good,

519
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, it's too late at that point,

520
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 3: Like the goal should have been the room. Think of

521
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: this as a Broadway performance. And what did you get

522
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: from the room. Were they losing their mind at the

523
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: end or were they like, let's go home at the

524
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 3: end of it. And if they felt so good, the

525
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: photo will be whatever it is. But they chose that

526
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: because that was the one that spoke to them so much.

527
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 3: And then that doesn't matter to you because you did

528
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 3: so well. So I compete. I'm sure you were very

529
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: and still are very competitive to yourself. Yes, I dancers sports.

530
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: I'm super competitive for myself, so I won't compete with

531
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: my fellow model, but I will compete to myself. And

532
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: if I thought my performance on a shoot with it,

533
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: then next time it will be better. And if it

534
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: was better, oh it has to be even better so

535
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: that I don't lose two people just tell me I'm amazing,

536
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: because I have a hard time hearing all the time

537
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: on a shoot, Oh, you're so good, and I'm like,

538
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's even real anymore. And you

539
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: were saying, like, you're starting to dance to do something different.

540
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: Maybe you tell me, but in your world of sports,

541
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: did you ever feel like you got to a point

542
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: where you're like, I'm good and people tell me over

543
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: and over and over and over I'm good, and you're like, okay,

544
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 3: I am, But like I'm also, like your podcast, I'm

545
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: also good at other stuff. Yeah. To me, I'm at

546
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 3: that point in my career where, if I hear one

547
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 3: more time, I'm very good at modeling. I need to

548
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 3: prove to myself I'm good at something else because it

549
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: has now gotten to a point where I don't know

550
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 3: if it's just they think a placebo effects.

551
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, But what the difference for you, Cocoa is you

552
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: have like the air is so thin at the top.

553
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: And I say this often that you have to like

554
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: to stay at the top as long as you have

555
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: and to be so relevant in the space for as

556
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean like two decades now, I don't

557
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: even know.

558
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 2: That is not easy.

559
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: But what you do really well is you continue to

560
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: raise the bar and you bring your personality you the

561
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: way you your brand. I mean, you're stomping down the

562
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: freaking runway. You're doing the Irish jig. Like it's so

563
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: beautiful to see you have a personality through your work,

564
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: and you don't see that much with models, Like you

565
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: just see them like their performers, their robots. They're doing

566
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: their job and they're done. But like you make it

567
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: so fun and like it doesn't feel like a chore.

568
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like you know someone is it like

569
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: you're a puppet or an animal in the zoo that

570
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: people are just staring at.

571
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: It's like, I.

572
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: Guess it feels like that. So sometimes you know, like

573
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: where you feel like they're just like dance, monkey dance

574
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 3: or do that mickey most thing that you do and

575
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: you're like, okay, but I also like don't have to

576
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: and it's like no, no, no, do that. But to just

577
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: segue somewhere here is where I just finished Couture season

578
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: a few few weeks ago, and that is in our industry,

579
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: It's like that's where the people with money come to

580
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: sit front row and they buy that one dress that

581
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 3: you're wearing. So I do a lot of coature stuff

582
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: because again I create a little performance. The person's like

583
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: that's amazing, I need that dress. And it's great to

584
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: be known as the model that can do kutu, but

585
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: this particular show this the client love them. They paid

586
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: me to do me do the cocoa thing, and don't

587
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: have to. I don't have to go out there and

588
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 3: do that thing. It's just I'm usually That's why i'm there,

589
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: and I expressed, is that what you're looking for? Do

590
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: you do? You want me to go down there and

591
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: do the whole coco shi bang? Yes? Please, please please?

592
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: And then also I was pulled aside by this casting

593
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: director and was like, don't you dare? And I was like, ca, boy,

594
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: what do you mean? And it was don't you dare

595
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 3: do the outdated thing that you do. It's pathetic. And

596
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: so I said again, as the client was still standing there,

597
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: I was like, do you want that? As you are

598
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 3: the one paying, not this individual, I was like, of course.

599
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: And this person screamed at me. Seconds before I went

600
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: out on the runway and I went back to fourteen

601
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 3: year old Coco. In the video you can see that

602
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: I went from one one of the I had two outfits.

603
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: One of the outfits you see me, I'm like in

604
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: the second you just see that. I I just lost it.

605
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it. Anymore. And it was actually Lisa

606
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 3: Rena was sitting front row and gave me the biggest

607
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 3: smile and I was like, I'm gonna get it, get

608
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: out of your head. And it just at that moment,

609
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm still not good enough for some

610
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: of these people in this industry. You've created some weird

611
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: puppet show. This isn't the real stuff, whereas most people go, oh, Coca,

612
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: that is so great. So I'm still dealing with years

613
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: of this, Like what people love about me is the

614
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: thing that a lot of people in the industry actually despise.

615
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying the whole industry is one person,

616
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: but it is shocking that I had this moment again.

617
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, fourteen year old Coco, You're still around. You

618
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: still have to deal with the same people that will

619
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: not accept you. They do not like that you're here

620
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 3: doing it your way. I cried for three days during

621
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 3: Couture Fashion Week. Like Lisa saw me at an event.

622
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: I was sobbing and she just knew like what I

623
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: had just dealt with, and it's again sob story. But

624
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: it was shocking that all of that tiny cocoa stuff

625
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: was just coming back and to say all the stuff

626
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: I have done to help this industry, a lot of

627
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: people hate it. In twenty thirteen, we changed a law

628
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: for underage models just to make sure that no one

629
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: had to deal with stories like mine where we were

630
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: not protected, We were in rooms that we should not

631
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: have been in, that we should have been paid, that

632
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 3: abuse should not have been happening. We changed that in

633
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, which has if you've noticed, to this day,

634
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: we are skewing older models. When I say older that

635
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: are of age or older we have We're uncomfortable seeing

636
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 3: a fourteen year old in clothes that should not be

637
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: on them thanks to that law. But yet there's still

638
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: people that find stuff like that that we try to

639
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: do better, like we were the problems, and so dealing

640
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: with that is something I realized I'm never not going

641
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: to deal with. That is my issue in this industry.

642
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: So when people say like wow, like you're loved, you're

643
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: praised to a point, and then there's this other No,

644
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: there's this dark side that does not They're like, you

645
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 3: have pass goo too many times.

646
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: I also think you know you're in the public eye,

647
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: right and you're successful, and you're successful at bringing something

648
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: different to the table, and I think that bumps up

649
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: against people because they're envious. They want that freedom, they

650
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: want that freedom to show up exactly who they are

651
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: at work and bring joy to people, even though it's

652
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: not your typical standard of what is expected. I always said,

653
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: being a professional athlete is a twenty four hour job.

654
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: My body matters the way it looks, the way it optimized,

655
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: like it has to be at optimal peak performance at

656
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: all times, recovery, how much I sleep, if I have

657
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: bags under my eyes, like my energy level.

658
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: That is exactly what you deal with as well.

659
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: And I think for women in our industry, there's always

660
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: this big question mark around pregnancy. Will she come back

661
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: and look the same, Will she be the same, will

662
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: she move the same, Will she be as fast?

663
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: Will she have stretch marks? Will you know her boobs

664
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: not be as perky? God, I don't know.

665
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: The list goes on, like women suffer so much from this.

666
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: I adopted my children because I was like, oh, I

667
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: can't risk that. I can't risk my livelihood and how

668
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: I make money and the potential of maybe not coming

669
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: back and being the same. I imagine you deal with the

670
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: same thing, and here you are. You've had three children,

671
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: and you're rocking it. You're smoking, and you're like showing

672
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: people like, you know what, I can do it all

673
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: and I can damn good doing it.

674
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was it like growing up and making.

675
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: The decision, because it must have been really scary to

676
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: do that.

677
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: I don't think the first one. I actually did an

678
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 3: homework to know that that was a real thing, because

679
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: the moment I found out I was pregnant and they

680
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: were like safe to tell people. I told the world

681
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 3: and it was a whoops and I wouldn't say sorry,

682
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: And it wasn't a whoopsie in the sense that to

683
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: have a kid. It was more like the jobs just

684
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: stopped immediately the moment I mentioned it, because in their heads, well,

685
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 3: she's pregnant, so there's a bump, so there's we don't

686
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 3: do maternity. And I guess I didn't know that most celebrities,

687
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 3: and hence I now realized on like baby two and three,

688
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 3: is that usually people announce it and then they have

689
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: a baby right like they have secretly held this sort

690
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: of bump without anyone knowing. And it made total sense

691
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: because I wouldn't have lost so many opportunities because the

692
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: bump didn't show till like months seven eight, Like it

693
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: was very and they're all of a sudden a bump

694
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: and I didn't know. I even knew mom. I was

695
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: just excited to tell the world. But yeah, there was

696
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: all of a sudden this like cannot work with you. You

697
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 3: you just there's no way you have We're not in maternity.

698
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, you don't see anything. Baby two prolonged it

699
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 3: a little, and then baby three was during COVID. But

700
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 3: I wouldn't. I would never say that. My worry was

701
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 3: the recovery. Here's my one thing when we were talking about,

702
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 3: you know, like knowing our bodies and all that. At

703
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: age eighteen, I retired modeling. In my head, I was done.

704
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 3: I had gone through so much, already been told from

705
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: the press that I was too fat for the runway.

706
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: I was on the cover of a newspaper here in

707
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: New York saying like this is the body of a

708
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 3: fat model.

709
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: It was a lot of takeout.

710
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 3: It was. It was a lot. And we didn't talk

711
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 3: about mental health back then, so I just held it

712
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: all and I was done. So when I had that

713
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 3: done moment and I said, forget it, screw you all.

714
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 3: I'm leaving. I did return. I was now dating a boy,

715
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: now my husband, and he made me feel amazing. I

716
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: never heard someone say like, You're gorgeous, and I'm like, wait, like,

717
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 3: of course I heard people say I'm gorgeous, but to

718
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: believe them or with it not having an undertone other meaning.

719
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: I was amazed and smitten at this human that I

720
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: was adorable and cute, and I was like, I'm never

721
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 3: going to do this anymore to my body. It meant

722
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: that I stopped working out. It's meant that I started

723
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 3: eating whatever I wanted. These these are not good things.

724
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: This is just how my rebellious moment was, and I

725
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 3: guess it kept going when I started to have babies.

726
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: I was not going to allow an industry to decide

727
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: and dictate that if I come back, I wasn't good

728
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: enough anymore, because I already did that for them, and

729
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 3: I was never successful. Every time I tried to fit

730
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: a dress, to work out a certain way, to eat

731
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 3: this certain whole thing, at the time, I was still

732
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: not good enough, and so this was not going to

733
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: happen this time around. I was going to do whatever

734
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: I wanted for this baby and for myself. But I

735
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: wasn't going to hear any of this, like that's you're

736
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 3: just not it right now. And I think again, probably

737
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: a very confident moment in my life where it just shifted.

738
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 3: But I did need that other person had nothing to

739
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: do with our industry to say, yeah, what are we

740
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 3: talking about? You're good And that was probably when we

741
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: talked about mental health talking to people. That was when

742
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: looking back was my moment I started talking to someone James,

743
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: explaining how I felt and to here his other perspective,

744
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, this is making way more sense

745
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 3: than what they're saying. So no, I really didn't deal

746
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 3: with that. But had I been like some of my

747
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: peers where they were like I need to go back.

748
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: I have that job. I have to do it now.

749
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: That was the other thing I had to decide when

750
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 3: I was returning, like, yeah, it's a business. My husband

751
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 3: is my manager. We work together, so if I don't work,

752
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 3: he don't work. So it was like, okay, so when

753
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 3: we're coming back, and it was roughly two months. I

754
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: gave myself two months and I returned back to work. However,

755
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: my form of work, I get to bring my kids wherever,

756
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 3: right like I bring them on sets, they sit and

757
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: watch photographers, they see the seamstresses create dresses. We get

758
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 3: to experiences as models motherhood if we so wish a

759
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 3: very different way than most moms in any other celebrities space.

760
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: You remember that this is the one area where women

761
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 3: are paid far more than men, and only one other

762
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 3: in the world. So it is we are.

763
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 2: That's so true.

764
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 3: It is considered a very valued space for a woman

765
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: to be a model. So she gets to dictate if

766
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 3: she brings her children, she's going to breastfeed, You're gonna

767
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 3: give her a break, she needs a nanny on set.

768
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 3: So all the things we all want and demand for

769
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 3: all these other spaces, models do already have that if

770
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 3: if you're at a certain.

771
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 2: Of course level level.

772
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: But even so, I know many up and coming new

773
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: moms and models, I say, just speak up, just say

774
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: my baby needs to eat, and my baby's coming, and

775
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 3: most of the creative teams that they're worth supported saying yeah,

776
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 3: of course, we'd love for you to work and for

777
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: your baby to be okay, no wonder. So it's different.

778
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 3: So when I say, two months in, I was ready

779
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: excited to like this new life with a new baby

780
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 3: in this industry that I now curate who I like

781
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 3: to work with. It was going to be a very

782
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: special place.

783
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: And by the way, your children are beautiful thing.

784
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: Not like I'm surprised your your husband's so handsome, and

785
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: clearly you're stunning.

786
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: I mean these babies, they're cute. We like them.

787
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: They I mean, I bet did you after having your

788
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: your children? Did you have like what was your I like,

789
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: how did you feel?

790
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: Because your body goes through a.

791
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: Lot of changes, right, and and I don't know what

792
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: it's like. I did not give birth to my children,

793
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: so I'm curious because I am so connected with my body.

794
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: How like what was that feeling like to come back

795
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: into the industry to like, I mean women who give birth.

796
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: I mean that is like going to war.

797
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: I mean literally, I don't know how to sugarcoat it.

798
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: And then y'all have talk about short term memory. You're like, yeah,

799
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: one another, one another.

800
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: You just went to battle with your own body, bless

801
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: But did you have a different Clearly you show up

802
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: differently as a parent. We all do.

803
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: It's the most beautiful thing in the world. But how

804
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: did you feel within your skin, like with this new

805
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: body and this this you know, you you have these

806
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: beautiful kids. Did it change the way you saw yourself?

807
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: Uh? Interestingly, no, I'd worried. When I had IONI I

808
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, well, my body's gonna stay this size

809
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 3: and this is it and you know, gonna be a

810
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: different category and modeling is just as it is. And

811
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: then no joke, a few weeks in, body was exactly

812
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 3: as it was before without working out. This sounds like,

813
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: you know, I'm like, haha, this is me. When that

814
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: is it, It's g for sure. However, you know, the

815
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 3: sad part was I had new mobs. That was great.

816
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 3: I love that. I was so excited for those, But

817
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 3: four months into breastfeeding, I couldn't. I couldn't produce enough anymore,

818
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: like for for her amount that she needed, I couldn't

819
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 3: create more milk for her. And that was the one

820
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 3: first time where I was like, my body is not

821
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: showing up for me. And I did what I was

822
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: supposed to do. I listened to everyone that was like,

823
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: you gotta work harder here or here at the pressure

824
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: of creating milk. I never knew it was going to

825
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: be a thing, and it was like, what a bad mom.

826
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: There's one of my first but one of my first

827
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: posts of motherhood, I was showing I was in Hawaii

828
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 3: and I was giving I only a bottle. This just

829
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: came back in my memory, by the way, and I

830
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 3: was just saying, like, look this, this company can send

831
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 3: me even milk in Hawaii in the most obscure place.

832
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: Like I was trying to say, like, how cool is

833
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 3: this one company that it could do something like this.

834
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 3: The world destroyed me for having a bottle in her mouth,

835
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: not knowing I had already been like personally suffering that

836
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 3: I couldn't give her any more, and now I was

837
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 3: hearing it from tens of thousands. When I arrived at

838
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: my final destination, I was at a news anchor. The

839
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 3: first question was why do you choose a bottle over breastfeeding?

840
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: And I remember being like, well, my body sucks, Like

841
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: why can it? Because some moms can go two years,

842
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 3: three and on, and yet I'm I must it must

843
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 3: have been me. I messed up, and so baby too.

844
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 3: I tried harder a month four. It's not a dry up.

845
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 3: It's just I can't make more that the baby needs,

846
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 3: and my body like literally shrivels back to its size.

847
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: Like I in my head I'm not a doctor, but

848
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 3: in my head, I was like, they're taking all my nutrition,

849
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: like anything I had was now like yours. But I

850
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 3: couldn't give them more. And then baby four, I just knew.

851
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 3: I was like, at four months, that's going to be

852
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 3: your number. And I even like got ready, being like,

853
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: it's just it, and so I maybe even gave up

854
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 3: that four. I was like, I'm not able. But it

855
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 3: was shocking to hear people tell me it was my fault.

856
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 3: And that was probably the first time I felt like,

857
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 3: what's wrong with my body?

858
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: Well, there's just so much shame and stigma of women

859
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: in general. And I'm curious because you know, your daughter

860
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: right has an Instagram account?

861
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: They all do, Yeah, they all do.

862
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: I love it.

863
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: But do you worry because you are in the public

864
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: eye and with that comes a lot of hatred and

865
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: judgment and living up to this standard, ridiculous standard that

866
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: no one you know, we're not perfect humans.

867
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: How do you protect specially your daughter?

868
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, so all my kids Ione, who's my oldest girl.

869
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 3: Then we have a boy either who's six, and Ili

870
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: who's four. All of them have Instagram, but none of them. No,

871
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 3: don't really have anything to do with it, except they'll

872
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: be like, can I see that Instagram account? So to clarify,

873
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: they're not like on it searching themselves. But the reason

874
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: that we started was the first time I took her out.

875
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 3: I was on a conference. I was not a conference.

876
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 3: I was on a panel, and it was like the

877
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 3: Clintons were there. I don't know why I was talking

878
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: and the Clintons were talking, but we had something to

879
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 3: talk about, and there was enough paparazzi for them. But

880
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 3: all of a sudden they saw, Oh, Coco is out

881
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 3: with her baby, and someone put a camera right in

882
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 3: her little bassinette and just went nuts. And we thought,

883
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 3: we don't know those Now they get to do whatever

884
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,479
Speaker 3: they so wish with that, and he did. He said,

885
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: freedom of the press. I get to have these. And

886
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 3: it was such a strange sort of encounter so that

887
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 3: we thought, wow, don't we just take some photos. We

888
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: put it out there so that there's enough that no

889
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: one needs more photos, and not to say I'm some

890
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 3: Beyonce or you know, Britney Spears that I'm being hounded,

891
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: but it was interesting enough that we now we take

892
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 3: our photos when we go on our holiday, take one

893
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 3: or two it's all like we see the photo, we

894
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: put it to the world and like, look at us

895
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: having a great time together, and it's they kind of

896
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 3: leave us alone. No one's kind of like I need

897
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 3: a photo, I need to be It's just kind of like, oh, well,

898
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 3: we already have stuff of cocoa in the family, so

899
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 3: leave it alone. That was that. But when it comes

900
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 3: to like, how do I now navigate this industry that

901
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 3: is so obsessed with our outer appearance and for me

902
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: to now go tell my kids, yeah, but mommy doesn't

903
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: care about her out appearance. Mommy only cares about her

904
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 3: inner And they're like, yeah, but you're in an industry,

905
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: that multi billion dollar industry that it's all about. I

906
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 3: needed to figure out what's the the how do I

907
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: go down this path? And so at home, our rule

908
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 3: one is no one is allowed to talk about anyone's

909
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: how they look in a negative way. Find better descriptive

910
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 3: words than fat or ugly whatever that is. So even

911
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 3: the cat, they're like, the cat is looking fantastically and larger,

912
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 3: whatever the word is. Find something else because I can't

913
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 3: stand those words. Those are kind of like my trigger

914
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 3: words to hear, like a young Coco hearing you're ugly

915
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 3: and you're fat, you're not good enough. Don't want to

916
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 3: hear my kids saying stuff. So I would never talk

917
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 3: about my body in a negative way, even to myself.

918
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: I actually do not look at it and go eh,

919
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 3: like the only times I'm like, okay, those boobs that

920
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 3: were so great, they're kind of gone. But my kids

921
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: do not hear like mommy talking about her body in

922
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 3: a bad way. So that's a huge thing. My mom

923
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 3: and my mother in law come from the generation of

924
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: you did talk about your body in a bad way,

925
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 3: and they sort of do still. But they're learning too,

926
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 3: because they come over and they're like Grandma's looking a

927
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 3: little and then you can hear them thinking and they're like,

928
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: I can talk about this. I around like fantastic whatever.

929
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 3: She starts switching in and I'm like, good for you,

930
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: Like you're learning to stop talking about that for you,

931
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 3: but you know you're doing it for them. And when

932
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 3: it comes to their understanding of this industry, they know

933
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 3: that I'm in it to one to better. So they

934
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 3: come to model camp. They're always at model camp, and

935
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 3: at first, when they're very young, they're like, what is this?

936
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: And I say it's a talent show. I love it,

937
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: and we perform and we show off. But now I

938
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 3: only's at enagle. She just knows that I'm there to

939
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 3: boost everyone's confidence so that they can just proudly walk

940
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 3: into a room and sell whatever it is they're trying

941
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: to sell and be proud of it even if they

942
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 3: don't win. And she knows that now, So at nine,

943
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 3: we're already like she gets it, and does she probably

944
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 3: look at her body or something, I'm sure, but we're

945
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 3: so open in communication. She knows that, Like I will

946
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: never judge her for talking about herself, but I have

947
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 3: never caught her ever being like ugh. She proudly is like,

948
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: look amazing, I am so much. So then like bring

949
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 3: it down a notch. But I'd rather that I work

950
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 3: with seven year olds and younger who deal with with

951
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 3: bardy dysmorphia. And I'm like, what has happened that you

952
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 3: are at this point at seven? Though you can't be

953
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: happy with yourself. Ione's nine, and she kills it. She

954
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 3: thinks that everything's a runway, everything's a stage, and I

955
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 3: hope the other two can follow notice her success in

956
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 3: that that they have their own their home theater stage

957
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 3: where they get to proudly show off.

958
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: Well, I think we also have an important task ahead

959
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: and we're all doing it now in our different industries

960
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: and really leaning on each other because I know in sports,

961
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: by the age of fourteen one and every two, young

962
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: girls are dropping out due to body composition issues. That

963
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 1: is so problematic to me. And I can't even imagine,

964
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: you know what your industry goes through on how we

965
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: show the world of what beauty looks like. And we

966
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: have to be better and we have to do better.

967
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 1: And I always you know, one of my biggest rules

968
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: in my house is kindness is currency, and my four

969
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: year old can't always say it, so we say kindness

970
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: is contagious. But it is important how they show up

971
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: because how they see themselves. They can go show that

972
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: to their friend groups and like spread joy and love

973
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: and laughter instead of what the media is doing to

974
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: these young women who are just absolutely tormenting them, shaming them,

975
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: making everything look a certain way. And you know, it's

976
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: just we can't continue doing this to these young children

977
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: because they're so vulnerable.

978
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 3: I do say to model campers, how like our generation

979
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: really messed you up, Like we were the ones that

980
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: just didn't speak up for ourselves. I thought I was,

981
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: but clearly not enough. And to then see like this

982
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 3: next generation Alpha come in and just like own it,

983
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: like IONI when I ask you, like, does that it

984
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: is it hard to do this? This? And this is?

985
00:50:58,520 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: No?

986
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 3: Not really, And I'm like we're how because you know,

987
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm like, oh that was overwhelming and she's like, no,

988
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 3: that's that's an easy thing and this other thing is

989
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 3: my issue. But I maybe because I'm worried that the

990
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 3: children of Coco, who is so I don't know if

991
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 3: you know, people will say to me, goodie two shoe,

992
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 3: Just what a goodie two shoe you are? You've always

993
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: just been like trying to be so sweet. I would

994
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 3: hate that they would look to my kids and be like,

995
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: where can I find a flaw? And that's where I

996
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 3: get very nervous. So when we are out and about

997
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 3: when they come to model camp, I'm like, remember, like

998
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: this is mummy's work. But they're also looking if I

999
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 3: am actually speaking or I am doing as I say,

1000
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 3: and I have to be able to lean on you,

1001
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 3: hoping that you can prove to them. So I feel

1002
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 3: kind of guilty because like they're going to make their

1003
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 3: own mistakes. But at the same time, people are like,

1004
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 3: but can you produce children the way you're saying you

1005
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 3: can produce And that's why I always get a little like, oh,

1006
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 3: you know, they shouldn't have to deal with this. But

1007
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 3: at the same time, the iver got an award from

1008
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 3: school and it was only a few little kids got

1009
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: it in front of the whole school for kindness and

1010
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 3: was just like he won because he was the nicest one.

1011
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 3: Or Ione the teacher said to me, like, she's the

1012
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 3: one you bring into the group that is having a

1013
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 3: hard time and she'll get them back on track and

1014
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 3: she will get them excited. So I've never cared about

1015
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 3: as I do not care. Like fail pull, you won't

1016
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 3: care because we'll learn it one day, you'll memorize it.

1017
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: But those sort of attributes where people are like, I

1018
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 3: can remember that kid in school that was so nice

1019
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: to me, the kid that helped me, the kid that

1020
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 3: never bullied me. That is the kid that I That's

1021
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: the kid I want working at Model Cat. That's the

1022
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 3: person I want working for me because textbooks, that's that's memorization.

1023
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 3: But to be actually these thoughtful children, like that's all

1024
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 3: I really care about and it's the same when it

1025
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 3: goes to what I'm training to models. I don't care

1026
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 3: what you look like. I really don't. I think we

1027
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 3: can get a hair, makeup and a stylist could help

1028
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 3: you in looking as whatever, but you as a person,

1029
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 3: I can't really physically change that. And that's usually the

1030
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 3: thing that everyone remembers.

1031
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.

1032
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 2: We'll be right back. It is so.

1033
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: Important to just really really dive into being present for

1034
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: our children and making sure we're raising really good humans.

1035
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: And with that, I always ask everyone on this show,

1036
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: what was the moment in your life or in your

1037
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: career that really split you wide open, that changed everything,

1038
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,959
Speaker 1: whether in your profession or in your personal life. What

1039
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: was that moment and how did it define the rest

1040
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: of your career or your personal life.

1041
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 3: This might sound super cliche, but it would have to

1042
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: be the moment I decided to get married. I was

1043
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 3: twenty one, okay, and we're still together fifteen years later.

1044
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 3: But I had been a child model. Let's be real,

1045
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 3: Although in the fashion industry and I was being treated

1046
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 3: as an adult, I was a kid and I leaned

1047
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 3: on all the adults in the room to tell me

1048
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 3: exactly what's supposed to happen. True, but at a certain point, like,

1049
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 3: if you're going to make me so adult, I should

1050
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 3: just be an adult then. And there were certain points

1051
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: when and I love my mom adorable. However, she could

1052
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 3: not let go of the reins of taking control of

1053
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: Cocoa and Coco the company in a way at eighteen nineteen,

1054
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: now we're twenty. Now we're twenty one, but still treating

1055
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 3: me like the kid that started at fourteen and everyone around,

1056
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 3: because there wasn't like a graduation day where I was like, ah,

1057
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 3: you're an adult, eighteen, off you go, move out of

1058
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 3: the house. I was out, So no one really gave

1059
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: me this like when from child to an adult, when

1060
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 3: when were they going to say it's your return to

1061
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 3: take the lead. So from the moment I pick a boyfriend,

1062
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: I was my mom my agents, everyone were like, who's this?

1063
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 3: Get them out? And it was not even as much

1064
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 3: as people like to say, well, it's just you know,

1065
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: they were concerned. It was more of a we're not

1066
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: in control anymore. We don't have the control that you're

1067
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 3: now trying to take so much of it away from us.

1068
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 3: And now you're trying to share it with someone else.

1069
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 3: That's how it felt to me, And it was very

1070
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 3: much this moment of like, I'm not in control. I

1071
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 3: don't have any mechanism to just say enough is enough.

1072
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 3: I was always leaning on anyone else, and I think

1073
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: the day I got married, my mom apologized at my wedding,

1074
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 3: being like, I'm sorry for you know how I treated

1075
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 3: James and how I treated this relationship, and moving forward,

1076
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 3: we will move forward. But it was then where I

1077
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 3: was like, well, now James is the head of my

1078
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 3: She's a low, old fashioned he's the head of my family.

1079
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 3: Now he's the one I will lean on. This is

1080
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 3: the one that I will, you know, like come to

1081
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 3: with my sorrows and my problems. It won't be agents,

1082
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 3: it won't be Mom, It's going to be him. And

1083
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 3: I think everyone that first two years of like learning

1084
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 3: that Coco's she has grown up, maybe because she's literally married,

1085
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 3: but it's not as it was. And from that point

1086
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 3: we did everything together. We A year into my marriage,

1087
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 3: I had a manager stealing from you, So James quickly

1088
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 3: took that job. Yeah, and thinking we'll give it to

1089
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 3: someone else. And he's been my manager for fourteen years

1090
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 3: and everything is a business together. Everything we do is

1091
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 3: a choice together. But it was that moment where I learned,

1092
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: like that is all where my career stepped up all

1093
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 3: of a sudden. We did things differently. That's when this

1094
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 3: guy was like, hey, why do you have to take that?

1095
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 3: Why do you have to not speak up? Why can't

1096
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 3: you do these things? And I was like, wow, who

1097
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 3: was this magician? Why are you so good at this?

1098
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 3: That was a big part but also a learning curve

1099
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 3: for me to just be like, you all have to stop.

1100
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 3: I am no longer fourteen. And it wasn't even a

1101
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 3: case of like you shouldn't get married. It was just like, ooh,

1102
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: she's not leaning on us anymore. And that scared everyone,

1103
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 3: and it scared me because they were telling me things

1104
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 3: that I out of fear. They were just saying things

1105
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: that I didn't want to hear. That was a big

1106
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 3: time and it did, Like I said, it changed the

1107
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: course of my career. I was the outspoken model. I

1108
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 3: started to do things differently, and to this day, I'm

1109
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 3: still known for like this moment in my career where

1110
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 3: they're like, use social media and you start speaking out.

1111
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: It was that time I love that you know, you

1112
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: have the camp, you have the agency, you have your

1113
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: own brand.

1114
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: Who's coco Outside? So do you have time for Cocoa outside?

1115
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 3: That's the question that when I was trying to explain

1116
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: a little is like this is the thing I'm so

1117
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 3: well known for. It's like, what else can I bring

1118
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 3: to the tables? Sometimes is the thing I reflect about,

1119
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 3: Like I loving mom's and I know people say, don't identify,

1120
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 3: don't save it too, and I'm like, no, it is

1121
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 3: the coolest, most special thing. Again, maybe because we started

1122
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 3: so young and I don't know your relationship with your parents,

1123
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 3: but like I wanted to just do things slightly different,

1124
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 3: and I'm sure that's always the answer. And I love

1125
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 3: this thing called mom. So when people are like, yeah,

1126
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 3: but what else, I'm like no, Like if you said,

1127
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life, you have to pick

1128
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 3: one thing and that's the only thing you get to do. Oh,

1129
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 3: let me be a mom, just a mom twenty four

1130
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 3: to seven all the time. Like I said, I brought

1131
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 3: one of my daughters or here in town. We don't

1132
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 3: live in the city, but I was like, I want

1133
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: the train ride, I want to hang out with you.

1134
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 3: So Grandma You're coming all the oway the city. You

1135
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 3: guys do some fun stuff and we're going to hang

1136
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 3: out again. My obsessionism, so to me, is family life

1137
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 3: the only thing I care for. And maybe because I've

1138
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 3: done so many fantastical things, I've lived this crazy life

1139
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 3: that the simplest stuff that maybe people take as mundane

1140
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: or just boring is the thing I'm like, That's what

1141
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 3: I live for, is to have dinners with my kids,

1142
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: to have my besties and the family we've created around

1143
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 3: us too. Are the people that we work with literally

1144
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: are also our besties. They take care of my kids,

1145
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 3: they take my photos, they do my hair, but they

1146
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 3: sit and do homework with one of the kids that

1147
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 3: I love the community we've created that I get to

1148
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 3: just spend time with them. So as cliche or boring,

1149
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 3: that answer is this really is like my favorite thing

1150
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 3: to do is just chill time with the people I

1151
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 3: like to be around, and that is Coco. If you

1152
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 3: can make me laugh, I love you.

1153
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: I say this as cliche as it is for me.

1154
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: I've won a lot of titles in my life.

1155
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: Mom is the top the coolest, coolest title I've ever

1156
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: been given. And I also don't take it lightly, so

1157
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't I couldn't agree more. And I appreciate how

1158
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: hard you have fought and advocated for a lot of

1159
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: these women. So I'm curious because you, you know, you

1160
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: do coach these young children and younger generation through a

1161
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: really hard profession. And I'm curious what you would leave

1162
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: with some of our viewers and listeners. What would be

1163
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: one of the things that you could leave with us

1164
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: to help someone maybe a young girl or however you

1165
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: identify struggling with who they are and what they look like.

1166
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 3: I think the one thing is to focus less about

1167
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 3: the physical and sort of like I remember were saying,

1168
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 3: what's the take away on a shoot? So what's a

1169
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 3: takeaway when it comes to life experiences instead of so

1170
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 3: much about this like how do I look? And I

1171
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 3: tell the models, like I know that maybe your goal

1172
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 3: is fame and fortune. To you, that might mean success,

1173
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 3: and it might mean like they finally accept me, and

1174
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 3: so I accept me, And I say it's I've never

1175
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 3: met a famous, wealthy person that said, oh, thank goodness,

1176
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 3: I'm wealthy. Yeah, and thank goodness, I'm famous. It rarely

1177
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 3: is the goal, but I would love the goal for

1178
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 3: these models to be a muse. If you could hear

1179
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: someone say you were my muse, it means you've done

1180
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 3: something so special, and it doesn't have to be a

1181
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 3: model taking a photo. It can literally be what you

1182
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 3: stand for that photo, maybe once in your career, what

1183
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 3: you've done in your community. If someone says that to you,

1184
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 3: to stop and reflect that moment because you have finally

1185
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 3: done it your way, because there is no way that

1186
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 3: you get to be amused. And this is one of

1187
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 3: my favorite sayings is you have to stop being a

1188
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 3: second rate version of someone else. And I what great

1189
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 3: lady said that. I can't remember. It was like Eliza

1190
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: Minelli or Elizabeth Taylor, but someone said it, and it's true.

1191
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 3: There's too many of us copycats, too many people looking

1192
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 3: at Instagram feeds and saying, the grass is greener if

1193
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: only I look like her, if I had her skin,

1194
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 3: her height, her weight, her age, I would be better off.

1195
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 3: And it just never has worked that way. But the

1196
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: muse is true. Muses they have their flaws and things

1197
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 3: they don't really appreciate about themselves, but ultimately they are

1198
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 3: proudly themselves. And I too speak to any model that

1199
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 3: is up and coming. You start this career for yourself.

1200
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 3: It's a very self absorbed sort of career. I want

1201
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 3: to do it for me, but you start to recognize

1202
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 3: that it's not just for you anymore. There will be

1203
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 3: an individual that says, you have my skin color, you

1204
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 3: have my body size, you speak for me now, and

1205
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 3: do you do it great? Or are you failing at it?

1206
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 3: And that right there will indicate what they will start

1207
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 3: feeling about themselves just that moment. And so then again

1208
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 3: the pressure is on, not that you have to love yourself,

1209
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 3: but it is very important for these individuals to have

1210
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: a mold, a model that is worthy to be called

1211
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 3: a muse to them. And so my last thing to

1212
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 3: most models, once they do start to have these careers

1213
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 3: that they so thought they deserved and wanted, I remind

1214
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 3: them that it's not a lifestyle. It is a business.

1215
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 3: But the one thing that most models that are at

1216
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 3: the top and doing very well is because this quote

1217
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 3: again last one, I promise, but it's one that I

1218
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 3: truly believe is true. It's nice to be important, but

1219
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 3: it's important to be nice. And so many models come

1220
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: to this time in their life where they think I'm

1221
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: the most important the room, I'm the one that they

1222
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 3: need and want and desire, and they lose all that

1223
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 3: loveliness that they grew up with. And if they could

1224
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 3: keep that up, if they could continue to be lovely

1225
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 3: and of course I'm sure gorgeous. Wow, they're going to

1226
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 3: have such a high success rate. And so anyone I've

1227
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 3: ever met who's good at what they do, they are sweet.

1228
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 3: They're the nicest people I've ever met, and they have

1229
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 3: no ego because they just know I am good at

1230
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 3: what I do. But you are also good at what

1231
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 3: you do. And there's enough space at the tables that

1232
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 3: we don't need to shove anyone out. And so again,

1233
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 3: it's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice.

1234
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you, Coco, and thank you for

1235
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 2: coming on the show. Thank you for being wide open.

1236
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for the work that you give to this world,

1237
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: because you really have changed the landscape. And I'm really

1238
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: grateful for our time today.

1239
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 3: Thank you. I love also that you never looked at

1240
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 3: those cards, just like you know what, you had it down.

1241
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're incredible.

1242
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 3: Though.

1243
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: It's easy to have a conversation with someone who just

1244
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: gets it, and you're one of those people.

1245
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 2: You're a unicorn. Thank Hobsolute, Coco, You're a unicorn. Thank

1246
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 2: you for coming on the show.

1247
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 3: Having Selena Goma's next guys, Selena.

1248
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: Where are you now? I'm kidding? Thank you so much

1249
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:06,919
Speaker 2: until next time.

1250
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 3: Until next time, see you.

1251
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 2: On another episode of Wide Open.

1252
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.

1253
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 2: You can find us on the iHeartRadio.

1254
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our

1255
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: producers are Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones.

1256
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,

1257
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan

1258
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder and I'm your host Ashlan Harris