1 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This 2 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: is Cow's Week in Review with Ryan cal Callahan. Here's Cal, Hey, 3 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: welcome to Cal's Week Interview. This is your host, Ryan 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: cal Callahan. I'm sitting here with Jordan Sillers, and we 5 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: have a special guest on this week for a special 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: drop interview episode, Doug Austin, who is a fellow at 7 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: American Fisheries Society. What is American Fishery Society, you may ask, Well, 8 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: that's why we have Doug on to inform us the 9 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: root of our interview, I guess the impetus. The reason 10 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: why is we are trying to figure out for selfish reasons. 11 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: Jordan's going fishing tomorrow. I love spring fishing, from big 12 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: trout to walleye that start moving around in our rivers, 13 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: and you know, they're just in more accessible spots for me, 14 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: who is not a good walleye fisherman, but I like 15 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: to eat them. And we're trying to figure out for 16 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: us our selfish reasons and for all of you what 17 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: all of these government funding freezes federal layoffs mean for 18 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: us for our selfish outdoor recreation and the idea that 19 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: if you are a conservationist in America. You want your 20 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: fish right now, but you also have signed up to 21 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: ensure that those fish and those fishing opportunities as you 22 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: know them, are around, not just for the next generation, 23 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: but the generation after that and after that. So please 24 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: welcome Doug Austin of American Fishery Society. Doug, would you 25 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: mind letting us know who you are and why you're here? 26 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 2: Great, Well, Callen Jordan, thanks for the opportunity to visit 27 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: with you guys and your audience here. Really appreciate the 28 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: opportunity to talk about this topic. AFS the American Fishery Society, 29 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: which I just retired from a little bit ago, so 30 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: I'm a retiree and I'm going fishing tomorrow too. 31 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: I'll have you know. 32 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: It's a society of professional fishery scientists, managers, people who 33 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: are involved in the fisheries process. So we're about seven 34 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: thousand members international, but most in the US. It's all 35 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: the state agency people, federal people, researchers at universities, nonprofits, 36 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: all those folks that get together to talk about how 37 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: to manage fisheries and keep this profession alive. It's a 38 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: group of people that has a national conference. We met 39 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: in Honolulu, LESSI, We're meeting San Antonio this fall. We 40 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: have chapters. I live in Pennsylvania, there's a Pennsylvania chapter, 41 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: the chapters in almost every state. And this is where 42 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: those biologists who work for you, all the licensed buyers 43 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: and others joined together to talk about how to do 44 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: their job better, the cutting edge science managem approaches all 45 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: those sorts of things. We published journals, books, a lot 46 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: of professional development things like that to help ensure that fishing, 47 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 2: quatic resources, freshwater, and marine are the best they possibly 48 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: can be. And the US, as you guys know, we 49 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: have a pretty darn good system here, one of the best, 50 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: if not the best, in the world for managing our 51 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: natural resources. And it's because of all the work that 52 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: you and many others have been doing for decades to 53 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: build this system. And that's what we want to talk 54 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: about today, is what's happening to the system that's going 55 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: to affect you all absolutely. 56 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: And I think what folks really want to know right 57 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: off the bat is, you know, are our tax dollars 58 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: just going to places where you academics can stay in 59 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: school and write papers, or are they actually providing us opportunities. 60 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that's that's a good question. And you 61 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: know the thing that the way fisheries is funded. But 62 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: let me let me just step back a second here. 63 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: You know this, you mentioned this whole issue right now. 64 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: Conservation has always been a bipartisan issue. You know, Republicans 65 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: and Democrats like to fish and hunt as much as 66 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: anybody else. People with the mega hats love to get 67 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: on the outdoors and fish just as much as tree 68 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: tree hugging liberals do. I mean so, And most of 69 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: the bills that have been passed over the years have 70 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 2: been bipartisan bills. So this isn't a Republican a Democrat issue. 71 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: This is a unique situation that we're in right now 72 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: that we've never seen. I've been in this profession for 73 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: forty years. I've talked to people been in there longer 74 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: than I have, and nobody can recall a situation like this. 75 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: But you know, by the money, so state agencies, when 76 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 2: you got a fishing tomorrow, you know, you get on 77 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: the waters. And when I'm out most of the fishing 78 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: recreation side of things, most of that is done by 79 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: the state agencies in my case is fish and boat Commission. 80 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: I used to be the director of that agency fifteen 81 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: years ago. Wherever you're fishing, state asans, they're the ones 82 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: who generally do the stocking, They're the ones that put 83 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: up the regulations, They're the ones that do that sort 84 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: of work that gets you on the water, unless it's 85 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: on federal lands. What's happening in the federal government now 86 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: is part of the system at the larger level. If 87 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: you're fishing out west or in the National forest in 88 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: the east, which a lot of us do, that's on 89 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 2: national forest land, but it's the fisheries itself is managed 90 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: generally by the state agency, so as a partnership between 91 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 2: the two, and you knock off the feet of one 92 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: of those partners and the other one is going to 93 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: eventually fall down. It's the way we work together with 94 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: the state agencies, the federal agencies, and the many nonprofits 95 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 2: that do have an interest in this that work collectively 96 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: to ensure that we have good fishing and good hunting 97 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: and good aquatic resources, those sorts of things. So what's 98 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: happening at the federal level as a huge impact, and 99 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: I can talk a little bit about that, but it 100 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: has ramifications at the state agency level and nonprofits in 101 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: major ways. That's going to impact maybe not right away 102 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: you're fishing tomorrow, but it will impact down the line 103 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: what your access you know, potential will be impacts of 104 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: diseases and danger species have to that all sorts of 105 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: things that are intertwined in this whole sort of conservation 106 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: program that we have in the US. 107 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: And I definitely want to get into some examples because 108 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like you take something really big, well, 109 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: it's the national debt. National debt doesn't mean a darn 110 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: thing to anybody. It's not it's not household debt. How 111 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: do we take an example like that and and bring 112 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: it down to a tangible level for the American hunter 113 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: and angler? Right? And so okay, go ahead. 114 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: You guys all have heard about silver carp right, the 115 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: fish that jump in the air and boats and all 116 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: that sort of crap. 117 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: I mean, shot them, I've eaten them. Yeah, I've seen 118 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: some pretty high numbers. 119 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're they're they're incredibly invasive species. And they're 120 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: in the Illinois River, the Kentucky Ohio, Ohio. They're knocking 121 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: on the door of getting the Great Lakes, you know, 122 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: right up in Illinois or other in Illinois, they're also 123 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: working the way up the Hillo River to eventually in Pennsylvania. 124 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: When these fish get into these systems, the rest of 125 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: the fishery collapses because they take over the population. The 126 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: work being done to respond to these fisheries, a lot 127 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: of the primary research and funding is coming through the 128 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: federal government, the US Fish and Walleye Service, US Geological 129 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: Survey of the corp of Engineers. The states themselves are 130 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: involved in this definitely, but without the partnership with the 131 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: federal agencies who are developing things like potential toxins, genetic issues, 132 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: things like that, helping to work a trans state across 133 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: state boundaries. Without that role, those those invasive species are 134 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: can continue to roll out into other places where we 135 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: don't want them. When they get there. Yeah, you can 136 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: shoot them with an air bow and arrow and have 137 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: all sorts of cool things like that. But your walleye fishery, 138 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: your best fishery, everything else, it's decimated because those fish 139 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 2: take over such a high abundance in those systems. Another example, 140 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: if you guys ever fish in the Great Lacery, remember 141 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: see lamp rays. It used to be that lamp rays 142 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 2: would attach to the lake trout and the other salmonids, 143 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: and they would both make an ugly scar but they'd 144 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 2: also kill a lot of them. For the last couple 145 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: of decades, the federal government has been using a lamp 146 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: recide called TFM. They put it in the tributary streams 147 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: of the Great Lakes to kill the young, young lamp rays. 148 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: One fifth of that program was laid off right away, 149 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: right up front. Two offices in Michigan closed or almost closed. 150 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: If we can't have people out there doing that work, 151 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: those lamp ray populations are going to come back up, 152 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: and people fish in the Gray Lakes and start seeing 153 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 2: lamp rays attached to their salmonids, both as you know, 154 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: dead salmon as a result of that, and as scarredfish 155 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: that they'll pull in on their lines. So those are two, 156 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: you know, right up front examples. There's a number of 157 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: others that will show people how this will impact them 158 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: immediately within the next year or two in terms of 159 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: these programs being diminished and as a result of them, 160 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: things happening that we're not gonna be able to do 161 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: anything about. 162 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: And yeah, two good examples right of of aquatic eva 163 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: invasive species AIS because those lamp ray in the Great 164 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: Lakes system. Those are are not a native lamp ray 165 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: like we have out here in like the Snake River system, 166 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: which is a great example of something that also gets 167 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: federal assistance and should be in the system. These are 168 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: things that should not be in the system and also 169 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: have the ability to reproduce at super high high rates. 170 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: For folks who don't remember, and it's going a long 171 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: way back, we used to do a lot of talking 172 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: about silver carp invasive carp and what they They have 173 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: the ability to affect all other species because they feed 174 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: throughout their whole lives on zoplankton and zoplankton is is 175 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: that that first step on the ladder to growing any fish, 176 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: including our game species that we really like to talk to, 177 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: we'll talk about yeah, but to go on that that 178 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: same example, right, we have quagga muscles zebra muscles, two 179 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: examples that transform fisheries, uh by removing filtering food out 180 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: of the system and in some cases I would say 181 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: transform fisheries because they can clear the water so much 182 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: that sunlight penetrates deeper and and you get different. You're 183 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: not fishing your lake the same way you used to 184 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: or for the same species in some cases, and then 185 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: those muscles also attached to infrastructure in ways that cause 186 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, millions and millions of dollars worth of damage 187 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: to water filtration systems from your little half horse water 188 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: pump that you used to water your lawn if you're 189 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: on a lake or river and you got a little 190 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: share a share of water from the local water board, 191 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: all the way to your your city water supply. Boat motors, 192 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: list goes goes on and on. So what other examples 193 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: do you have, Doug. 194 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: Well, So you're out in the Pacific Northwest, I mean 195 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: there's a lot of work being done out there by 196 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 2: NOAH National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration. Within NOAH is National 197 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: Marine Fishery Service. They are the ones responsible for a 198 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: lot of the work on some models. They also across 199 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,119 Speaker 2: the federal government as a whole. What these federal agencies 200 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: provide to the states is capabilities that the states often 201 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: don't have. For example, genetics labs. A lot of states 202 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: don't have the ability to look at the genetics of 203 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: the fish because they don't have the capacity. The state 204 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 2: agencies simply don't have the funds. They have their own 205 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: genetics lab So we rely upon the federal government to 206 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: put those in place that we can use across multiple states, 207 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: and we'll cast share it with them. Things like dam 208 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 2: removal and fish passage, highly technical type of things, really important. 209 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: Just in Pennsylvania, we have over six thousand low head dams. 210 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: These are all. 211 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: Artifacts of old mills and things like that. Most of 212 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: them are negative impacts, almost all of their negative maximum fisheries. 213 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 2: But to remove those dams and to restore those habitats, 214 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: you need technical expertise, and a lot of that comes 215 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: from the US fish and lycerous engineers who do this 216 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 2: around the region and also around the nation. So there's 217 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: those sort of services that we rely upon. Earlier you 218 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: mentioned academics and things like that. All those researchers, those 219 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: wonky researchers are sitting universities. One of the really important programs, 220 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: and I'm not sure you guys know about, it's called 221 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: the Cooperative Fish and Wilife Research Units. It's a it's 222 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: an organization within the US Geological Survey. It's a partnership 223 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: between the USGS and universities and the state agency to 224 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: put researchers on university campuses. And there's they have these 225 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: and forty one of the states, and these researchers focus 226 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: on things that the state agency says is our biggest 227 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: issues in managing fish and wildlife, things like you know, 228 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: chronic wasting disease, invasive species you know, quiga muscles, zebra 229 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: muscles of things, movement of invasive species, you know, migratory 230 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: issues of big game in the West, and how you 231 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: get them across highways without them killing you know, themselves 232 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: and vehicles. So these units are often the major resource 233 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: agencies research arm because the states and again a lot 234 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: of states don't have the money and have their own 235 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: independent research bureau. Some states do, but most don't, so 236 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: they rely upon these units. And these are federal units. 237 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: These are within USSH, which has taken a huge hit. 238 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: In fact, twelve of their new staff and people who 239 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: got promoted were just let go right up front. These 240 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: are researchers who are doing workforce state agencies for you 241 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: and I and others on issues that are you know, problematic. 242 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: They're they're going to hurt us if we don't get 243 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 2: them resolved, or they're finding new ways of dealing with 244 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: things like invasive issues and genetics and all those sorts 245 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: of things. So, so those academics are the people. And 246 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: this is also where we train our new biologists. Five 247 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: to six hundred graduate students are in that program. These 248 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: are the people who are going to be hired by 249 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: agencies to be the next fisheries manager, wilife managers to 250 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: work for us. If we lose them, we lose our futures. 251 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: Like taking the Triple A Ball you know, program out 252 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: of a major League baseball team, just telling you, guys, 253 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: we don't need anymore. Where's where's our next group of 254 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: players coming from? I mean, you've cut off the source 255 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: of all your talent when you're starting to hurt these 256 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: sorts of programs, like the coop units. So the problem 257 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: is that when this Doge group came in, they just 258 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: started axing things everywhere, and they took the two lowest 259 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: hanging fruits. One is new hires because they're on a 260 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: probationary period, and the other is people who got promoted 261 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: because you're also on a probationary period. So think about that. 262 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: You got you let go of the people you're promoted. 263 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: You prone bonted these people because of what Because they're 264 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: your best people. You want them to be your next leaders. 265 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: You lost them, and then you're also losing your new blood. 266 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: The new people are bringing in ideas or bringing an energy. 267 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: They're the people that are going to manage our resources 268 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: in the future. So you've lost two really important parts 269 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: of these federal agencies that it's going to impact us 270 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 2: for a generation to try to rebuild these sorts of things. 271 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 2: It's so easy to destroy. It's hard to build because 272 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: it's taken years to build these programs that we all 273 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: collectively have been asking for and trying to get legislation 274 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 2: put in place for things like abandoned mind drainage, this 275 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: invasive issues work habit that restoration, dam removal, fish passage. 276 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: All these culverts, thousands of culverts that were put in 277 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: on roads in the Northwest is a perfect example this. 278 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: These culverts that are under engineered. A flood flow comes 279 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: through that are getting worse all the time, takes out 280 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: the culvert, takes out the road. You got to replace those. 281 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: If you just replace them with what was there before, 282 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 2: it's going to blow out again. So you have the 283 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: engineers the biologists all working together to create fish passages 284 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 2: that will both deal with the damage to the roads 285 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 2: but also allow fish to move up and down these 286 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: stream systems like they used to. It helps the systems 287 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: restore themselves and make them more healthy. So all these 288 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: things are part of where these federal agencies that are 289 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: being cut are so important for helping us with these 290 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 2: natural resources issues. So it's across the spectrum. 291 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: You know, I think like a good way for people 292 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: to understand this, at least if you're you came from 293 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: the trades or have ever had a house built, right, 294 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: It's like it's very very rare to build a house 295 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: completely by yourself anymore. Meaning you're doing the concrete work, 296 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: you're doing the rebar work, you're doing the electrical work, 297 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: you're doing the plumbing work, you're building the trustes, you 298 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: are installing the windows, the sighting all the finishes on 299 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: the inside, which is a very different job, moves a 300 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: lot slower than doing the framing, the fun part of 301 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: throwing up walls and robes and ceilings, and and if 302 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: you've hired yourself an awesome, super efficient general contractor, they 303 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: are not pouring the concrete and doing the plumbing and 304 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: doing the electrical work and and et cetera. Those are 305 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: all subcontractors. And and there's some awesome subs out there, 306 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: just like there's some awesome general contractors out there, and 307 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: all of those communicating well, coming together, they can make 308 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: a great structure and a short amount of time and 309 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: come in under budget. Sometimes they can't, right, But that's 310 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: kind of what you're describing here. 311 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: Is that's a great that's a really good characterization kel 312 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: all these things were dealing with. They're complicated. I mean, 313 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: you pull out a dam, for example, and there's all 314 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: sorts of issues of water quality. There's sediment. You know, 315 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: are there PCBs or mercury or metals in the sediment? 316 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: What's going to happen to the hydrology downstream? You got 317 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: to revegetate the banks, You got to get all the 318 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 2: permits in place, you got to get funding in place. 319 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: Your metaphor is perfect there and that you know. It 320 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: takes a team of people and money from a variety 321 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: of sources to make these sorts of things happen. Local 322 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: groups that know the community, that can work with the 323 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 2: people who may love that dam because it's been there 324 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: for fifty years, but it's now a dead dam. People 325 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 2: die in these dams. It takes federal moneies to fund it, 326 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: It takes engineering it takes state permitting. All those groups 327 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: work together to make these sorts of things happen. That's 328 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 2: just one example. If you pull out a big component 329 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: to that, like the federal part of it, it collapses. 330 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: You don't have the drywall done when the electricians are 331 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 2: coming in. You don't have whatever it is you know 332 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 2: that actually want to have the electrics done before the 333 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 2: drywall people come in. So I had that backwards there. 334 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 2: But anyway, you know what I mean, Yeah, yeah, you 335 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: lose a huge part of this which is going to 336 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 2: hamper states. And I think the other things important to 337 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 2: know is that and you guys all know this is 338 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 2: these programs, fishing, wilid programs, conservation programs have never been 339 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 2: funded at the level that they really need to be funded. 340 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: It's always been trying to do as much as we 341 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 2: can with the limited resources that we have. So you know, 342 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: everybody's stretched thin, everybody's trying to do multiple jobs. You 343 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: got people who are trying to, you know, cover a 344 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 2: lot of these bases that they know they're not maybe 345 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: the best at, but they have to do it because 346 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: you know, there isn't the resources there. You know, unlimited budgets. 347 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: You know, a state agency. Getting a license fee increase 348 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 2: in a state ation le You guys know that it's 349 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 2: not easy thing to do. You know, as they go 350 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: for for sometimes decades without getting license fee increases. No 351 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 2: business would ever do that. 352 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: You know. 353 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: You need to make your your thing work, your business work. 354 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 2: So when you pull out a big piece of this 355 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: which is a federal side, or diminish it, it really 356 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 2: does hamper everybody else along the process. It just it's 357 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 2: like that preferbiable throwing the stone in the pond and 358 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: seeing the rings go out. It doesn't effect everything else 359 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: in one way or the other. And agencies that are 360 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: already stretched thinly will have to be stretched even more 361 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: thinly to try to deal with these issues. 362 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Does like one little bit of experience that I have, right, 363 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: It's like when we would go do a project for 364 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: the Forest Service or USGS and it was on grizzly bears, 365 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: and you're all geared up for grizzly bears, and you 366 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: would all before you went into the field, you would 367 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: also get a sheet of also be on the lookout 368 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: for all these other projects that are going on frogs, salamanders, bats, 369 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, field observations. This is how you you also 370 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: get the data that we need for all these other 371 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: projects that are going on at the same time. But 372 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: we're only going to get them done if anybody who's 373 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: going out into the field can help us collect this data. 374 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: And I you know, I think where in your mind? Right? 375 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: Because we talk about and I believe that the outdoors, 376 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: public lands, public wildlife is a non partisan thing that 377 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: we should be able to come come together on. I 378 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: also think unless you have like a and I think 379 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: this does exist us like this strong economic theory that 380 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: government waste, you know, increases our growth domestic product in 381 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: relation to to our debt. But I also think, like 382 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: a non person belief is you know, if we look, 383 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's had this experience as a kid, right, 384 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: Like you get your first job, you get your first paycheck, 385 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: and you go, oh my god, did is that much 386 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: money really being taken out of my paycheck? Like we 387 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: want that cash to be used wisely and efficiently, and 388 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: ultimately we would love it to also be used in 389 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: the stuff that we really care about and we really see, 390 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: which is pie in the sky on the just use 391 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: it for what I want it to be used for. 392 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: But where, like, where is the like the waste fraud 393 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: inefficiency in our fisheries. 394 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: Well so, and I think that's that's a really good question. 395 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: And I think people are always concerned about government spending 396 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: and you hear this mantra you know, all the time 397 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 2: right now, you know, waste fraud and whatever else they're saying. 398 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 2: You know, I've been in this business for forty years, 399 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: and within the fish and wife spectrum, because we are 400 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: so thinly spread, there's not it's going to be hard 401 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 2: to find some of that. What actually, what happens with 402 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: almost all these projects is that what you have to 403 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: do is you have to show the benefits of the 404 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: work you're being doing. You're doing so uses uses diam removal. Example, 405 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: you invest money in damaryable or culverts is another perfect example. 406 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 2: You invest money in those things and the end product 407 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: not only improves the fishery, brings in tourism, which brings 408 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: in people on the water, you know, buying food at 409 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 2: the restaurant, buying tackle. It addresses an infrastructure issue, which 410 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 2: is roads blowing out. So the bang for the buck 411 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: on almost all these projects is very positive. It's often 412 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 2: a multiple order, you know, three four, five times in 413 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: terms of benefits from the investment in that sort of work. So, 414 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: and you can go project by project throughout a lot 415 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: of these things. Or is preventing bad things from happening. 416 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: Use the Asian carp issue, the silver carp issue. You know, 417 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: those get into the Great Lakes. You know, they're knocking 418 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: on the door of Lake Michigan for example, right now 419 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: through the Kelsa Canal, you know, part of Chicago. There 420 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 2: they get into Lake Michigan. The fishery in Lake Michigan 421 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: is a billion dollar, multi billion dollar fishery. And if 422 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: that goes down because of these these silver carp getting 423 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: in there, a big head carp or the black carp, 424 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: that's going to have huge implications on the economy of 425 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: the area, jobs, you know, all the things that go 426 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 2: off from that. So when I talk about you know, 427 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: improving our natural resources, the work on habitat, restoration, stocking fish, 428 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: you know, disease prevention, chronic wasting disease. If you know 429 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 2: people don't deer hunt because they're afraid of chronic wasting disease, 430 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 2: that's going to have all sorts of implications in terms 431 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 2: of lost hunter dollars. You know, habitat, you know, deer 432 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: in urban areas and suburban areas are a huge problem. 433 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: Car vehicle you know, vehicle collisions, those sorts of things. 434 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: All these things have an economic value, a benefit to 435 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: come from them. 436 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: You know. 437 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 2: These we're not building things that have no purpose. We're 438 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 2: not restoring habitats that people don't use. These are things 439 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 2: that almost always have a net positive return on the economy. Jobs, 440 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: and in a lot of the cases, these are rural 441 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 2: jobs and areas that are depressed. So oftentimes the the 442 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: greatest source of income and jobs in these rural areas 443 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: is travel tourism, fishing, hunting, hiking, camping in these areas. 444 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: That's what's bringing people and that's what's supporting jobs in 445 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 2: a lot of these areas, and that's a tremendously important 446 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: thing to keep going. These sorts of cutbacks are going 447 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: to have direct implications on those jobs. Not just the 448 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 2: agency people who are being lost because of it, but 449 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 2: they're reduced attendance and parks when they have to close 450 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: a park or reduce a number of visitor days or 451 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 2: reduce services, or campgrounds don't get maintained, or trails aren't open, 452 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: whatever it might be. All those sorts of things are 453 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: going to have a negative impact upon these local economies. 454 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: And I think we're just starting to see as especially 455 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: rural towns in the West, are saying this is not good. 456 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: They see the implications of these sorts of things, and 457 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 2: they're starting to rise up and say, we didn't sign 458 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: on for this. We didn't understand what the implications of 459 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: this would be. But now we're starting to understand that. 460 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: You know, they're contacting their congressional members and saying, let's 461 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 2: let's slow down a little bit here, Let's take a 462 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: look at this and make sure that what you're doing 463 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: is in fact not waste and not fraud. But this 464 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 2: this is a good investment of federal dollars because we 465 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: see the benefits of it. And that's really important is 466 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: that this program has gone so fast, you know, the 467 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 2: chainsaw metaphor, going to just cut things without really understanding 468 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: how these are going to impact you and us and 469 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: all these people in these areas around the country who 470 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: are depending upon or value the opportunity to go outdoors 471 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: and enjoy these national parks and national forces and blm 472 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 2: lands where you're hunting on and everything else. That's our 473 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: that's our future, that's the places that we want to go. 474 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: You know, next next year, I'm going to go on 475 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 2: my first elk hunt in Colorado. It's going to be 476 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: a National forest land. And if those trails aren't open, 477 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: if I can't have access, or if you whatever a 478 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 2: reason that access is denied because of lack of staff 479 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 2: in the Forest Service, that's going to be a really 480 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: big hit. And multiply that by thousands of other people 481 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: or hunt on National forest land or beyond land out west. 482 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 2: That's going to have a huge impact upon our own 483 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 2: personal recreation and our friends and colleagues, but not on 484 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 2: the industry as a whole, you know, just you know, 485 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: just to make this even crazier, think about Terrace, you know, 486 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: Terrace on aluminum, and a group called the American Sports 487 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: Fishing Association, which is all the tackle manufacturers, just put 488 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: out a warning or a notice that you bring in, 489 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 2: you know, fishing reels and stuff that are made or 490 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: parts are produced elsewhere that use illumine, which almost all 491 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 2: of them do. All of a sudden, the prices on 492 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: all of your tackle and probably arrows and other things 493 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: is going to go up because all those are either 494 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 2: sometimes made abroad, use materials abroad or other things, and 495 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: part of that network of manufacturing that we rely upon 496 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: within the US for these sorts of things. So it's 497 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 2: all these sort of weird, unexpected implications of this that 498 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 2: people are just starting to realize now and getting very 499 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: concerned about. 500 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's not something the general contractor, in our metaphor, 501 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: was able to predict when you bid your house, right, 502 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: And that is I guess to lean on this metaphor 503 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: and hopefully not exhausted. Right, Like the reason that your 504 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: general contractor one of the many reasons that your general 505 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: contractor is not also the electrician, the concrete person, the trustmaker, 506 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: the drywaller is you know, that's a lot of expertise. 507 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: When you specialize in it, you can be efficient and 508 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: do it really well. But it's also a lot of 509 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: equipment that needs to be maintained, needs to be stored somewhere, right, 510 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: heavy equipment for moving earth. You need all the concrete forms, 511 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: you need the insulating blankets. You need a crew that 512 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: understands how to take care of ship maintain that stuff. 513 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: Same for electricians, same for plumbers, same for your framers, 514 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: your roofers, all all the way through. What is the 515 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: ability for ability and plausibility of state agencies their their 516 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: fisheries department. Two take care of the gaps that the 517 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: federal agencies are going to leave vacant. 518 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's you know, that whole web of 519 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: how we all work together is what you're talking about. 520 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: And you know, when you when you break one part 521 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: of the web, can the other one sort of hold on? 522 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 2: And that's going to be really hard because states are 523 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 2: not in the position to expand their agencies. I mean 524 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: unless they get some more money somewhere, they can't hire 525 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 2: new people just without having the budget for it. And 526 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 2: a lot of the state agencies are are funded you know, 527 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,959 Speaker 2: by two or three different ways, by licensed dollars and 528 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: by this federal reimbursement of funds. That what you've probably 529 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: talked about your folks before, the Digeal Johnson funds or 530 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 2: the Pittmam robbers and is the excise tax on phishing tackle, 531 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: most motors hunting gear that goes into the states. They 532 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: don't get a lot of state tax dollars. Most state agencies, 533 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 2: fishing walf agencies are on their own in terms of 534 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 2: licensees and this federal money, so the ability of them 535 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 2: to grow to fill in these gaps is very limited. 536 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: What we often do, though, is and I'll give you 537 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: an example of the sort of this network talking about tonight. 538 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: I'm talking to a Trodden Limited chapter in Pennsylvania, and 539 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: Trodden Limited is basically like a contractor to the federal 540 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: rent in states. In a lot of cases, money flows 541 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: from the Feds to tu to do habit at restoration 542 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 2: work because they can then be very nimble and hire 543 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 2: contractors to do the earthwork, you know, to get an 544 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: excavator in a stream. You know that people that know 545 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: how to do that is not easy to do, and 546 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: they can do those sorts of things and work with 547 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: local engineers and others to do those sorts of design work. 548 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 2: But that work, which is jobs in these rural areas, 549 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 2: is dependent upon the federal dollars flowing to them, sometimes 550 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: through the states or in partnerships with the states, to 551 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 2: make that sort of thing happen. If the federal money 552 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 2: goes away, those contractors are out of a job. So 553 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: it has another spin off effected this sort of things. 554 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: And this is a lot of work on everything from 555 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: in our area of bandoned mind drainage work where we've 556 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 2: had these old you know, deep mines or even surface 557 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 2: minds that are running off acid, lots of other you know, 558 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 2: bad things in there too, habit that restoration work, dan removals, 559 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 2: you know, working out west with water, you know, ensuring 560 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 2: that there's enough water in the streams to keep the 561 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 2: fish and and aquatic life together, all those sorts of things. 562 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: Immediately, too much water isn't diverted for agricultural or even 563 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: even city yes, right. 564 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, water out west is is clearly the big 565 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 2: issue these days, and how to deal with that is 566 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 2: going to be very, very challenging. 567 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I this is going a little bit in 568 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: a direction that that I wasn't thinking we'd go. But 569 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, we had a young guy 570 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 1: on our Meteor Meat Eater Radio Live podcast who's brand 571 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: spanking new BLM range Land ecologist. It was a position 572 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: that the district that he ended up in and in 573 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: Colorado had had to open for three years and he 574 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: finally got to a point where he could apply, applied, 575 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: got the job, and I think it was a seventy 576 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: two or seventy five thousand dollars a year job. And 577 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: I asked him specifically what he was getting paid, which 578 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you can find this stuff out. It's it's 579 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: public information because he's in a town of fifteen hundred people, 580 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: and all the economists that I've spoken to, it's it's 581 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: a fact that a federal dollar spent is considered a 582 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 1: multiplied three times on the local economy. So when you're 583 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: in a town of fifteen hundred people and you have 584 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: a this is an agriculture based job, but not in 585 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: the agriculture sector, I would say, and you have a 586 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: consistent paycheck of a yearly salary of seventy two grand 587 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: a year, that's a really big impact on a small town, right, 588 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: And we have I think one of the things that's 589 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: at stake here to just kind of like let my 590 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: bias be known, is because I interact with these these 591 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: younger folks all the time. I was just just came 592 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: back from a Pheasant Fest and Quail Classic, and I 593 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: love those organizations because of how they implement knowledge and 594 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: dollars on the ground for our egg communities. Right. They 595 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: employ more farm bill biologists than anybody other than the 596 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: US government. And it's to implement that habitat work on 597 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: the ground and make sure that these folks in the 598 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,240 Speaker 1: egg community who don't always have the time to sit 599 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: and go through government websites, which are aggravating to go 600 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: through a lot of times where you can actually get 601 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: access to these programs to improve your ground your bottom dollar, 602 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: and that's going to have some benefit to wildlife as well. 603 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: We have all these people that believe in civil service, 604 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: noble profession. They're willing to go out into rural communities 605 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: that have way fewer amenities, make not a lot of 606 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: money because they want to do these jobs and they 607 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: believe so strongly in the fact that they're they're a benefit. 608 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: And I really do worry right now if we are 609 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: going to teach these people before they can can even 610 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: do the job, that is not worth it. Because nobody 611 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: likes to call. 612 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 2: If you talk with this gentleman, you're saying, man a 613 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, when he got a job with 614 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 2: him last year, there's a high likelihood that this person 615 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 2: does not have a job anymore. You should check up 616 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 2: with him because that you know, as we talked earlier, 617 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 2: these new hires, they're on probation for twelve months, and 618 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 2: a lot of those probationary staff were the first group 619 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 2: of people to be let go because you know, they're 620 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 2: easier to get rid of. Is what the what the 621 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 2: government or which the doge in the White House was saying, 622 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 2: So that young person who's been working to get this job, 623 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 2: probably as a master's degree, because most people to get 624 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 2: these jobs to have master's degrees, you know, is now 625 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 2: and I don't know if that's the case, but I 626 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 2: know lots and lots of other people because I've talked 627 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 2: with them, or you know, we were collecting stories of 628 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 2: these people who are in this position talking about getting 629 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 2: this job or being promoted and doing this incredibly important 630 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 2: work that creating hunting. You know, you know, this guy's 631 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 2: working on land restoration work or habitat it's probably quail 632 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 2: habitat or pheasant habitat or whatever it might be. You know, 633 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 2: it's a fisheries person. They're let go and that job 634 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 2: is gone, that income is gone, and it's not only 635 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: a disaster for their family, but it does have impacts 636 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 2: on the community. These small towns, like you say, we're 637 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 2: a good solid job like that is important, and that's 638 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 2: that's you know, in these rural areas, these little towns 639 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 2: you're talking about, that's really going to be a hard issue. 640 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: You know. 641 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 2: Along with this, offices offices are being closed. There's this 642 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 2: huge listing of facilities being shut down by the Feds. 643 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 2: In Pennsylvania where I live, we have state water offices. 644 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 2: These are the offices where staff manage these stream gages. 645 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 2: You talk about going fishing, and I'm going fishing tomorrow. 646 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 2: I'm looking at the stream gauge, that hydrological gage. It 647 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 2: says how much water is in that stream, and I 648 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 2: use that to tell me it is the stream too high? 649 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 2: Should they just not even go there? Spring flow they're 650 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 2: coming down? 651 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: Or whatever it is. 652 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 2: Three of the four offices in Pennsylvania are targeted to 653 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 2: be closed that manage that network of gauges. I don't 654 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 2: know what we're going to do if we don't have 655 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 2: that information, you know, selfishly from the fishing side, but 656 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 2: flood people use that for understanding when they need to 657 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 2: get people out of the floodplains. What are quality people 658 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 2: use it to know, you know, when things are happening 659 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 2: with their filtration system, their treatment plant, and what's the 660 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,399 Speaker 2: impacts of that. All sorts of things like this are 661 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 2: going to start unwinding in all these areas and cause 662 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 2: problems that clearly aren't being known by the people who 663 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 2: are making these cuts. And that's that's I mean, that's 664 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 2: what I'm trying to do now is help people recognize 665 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 2: that these cuts are being made without thinking, they're being 666 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 2: made without people understanding the ramifications of these these cuts. 667 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,280 Speaker 2: And that's what your audience and others need to recognize 668 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 2: is that, yeah, everybody can be concerned about government waste 669 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 2: at all levels, just as if there's and there's as 670 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 2: much waste in the private sector. I know that as well. 671 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 2: Don't don't elude your delude yourself and think the private 672 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 2: sector doesn't waste money. 673 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 1: Well, to go back to our metaphor, but anybody who's 674 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: been on a crew of any kind, we we know 675 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: there's folks who bust their ass, and we know there's 676 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: folks who cost. 677 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 2: There's people that power people too, right, Yeah exactly. But 678 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 2: but yeah, so I mean that that's you know, letting 679 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 2: people know that what's happening now is not only good 680 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 2: for your your individual enjoyments and your kids and grandkids. 681 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 2: You can have all these other effects, the spinoff effects, 682 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 2: economic impacts, you know, quality, environment impacts, water quality, public 683 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,919 Speaker 2: safety that people aren't taking into account that people need 684 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 2: to understand. And you know what I'm trying to do 685 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 2: is get people to say, this isn't what we want. 686 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 2: You need to let your congressional members know that this 687 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 2: is not going in the right direction. You need to 688 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 2: stop this and think about this before moving ahead with 689 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: any of these sorts of things, because it's going to 690 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 2: have impacts upon us for years, if not generations, And 691 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 2: I'm not kidding about that. It could be years for 692 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 2: these sorts of things to fix get fixed if we 693 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 2: let them continue to go on. 694 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Doug. You know, I think this 695 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: has been great. If folks want to take action, we 696 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: encourage you to do so. And remember, just because you 697 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: want healthy fisheries and fish numbers and the ability for 698 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: the next generation to go out there and have access 699 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: to public waters, public wildlife, that doesn't mean that you 700 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: also then hate the dude who's in office or hate 701 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: everything they're doing. This is America. We get a pick 702 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: and choose. You can have your cake and eat it too. 703 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: You can love, love what our elected officials are doing 704 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: on certain issues, and you can not complain but inform 705 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,320 Speaker 1: them on how to do a better job when dealing 706 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:29,359 Speaker 1: with other issues. And write an email, make a phone call. 707 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: It's absolutely within every citizen of this great country's purview 708 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: to even have an in person meeting with your elected officials. 709 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: They owe that to you, that's why they're in that office, 710 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: and go do it. It's very eye opening. Doug, thank 711 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,800 Speaker 1: you very much. I really appreciate your time today and 712 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate you going out and volunteering and talking with 713 00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: these other groups too. 714 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 2: So McKellen Jordan, I really appreciate the oportuny to visit 715 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 2: with you guys, and yeah, this is important and I 716 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 2: appreciate your helping folks understand the issues. 717 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: Awesome. Thanks a bunch, Thank you all. M