1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Although I'm welcome to say your production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Stuff Media. I'm Annies and I'm Lauren Vocal Bam. And 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: today we have an interview for you with one Elizabeth 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: pres And uh, this is one from our New Orleans trip, 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: which was just about a year ago. It will a 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: bit more now, Yeah, I was right before Thanksgiving. Gosh right, okay. Um. 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Here's um is a drinks historian, Um who lives 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: in New Orleans and has this amazing podcast called Drink 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: and Learn, which is also a tour. She she will 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: take you on tour around New Orleans and talk about 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: some of the classic cocktails and ingredients that you will 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: find in the bars there. She's also the author of 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: Drink Debt New Orleans. UM. This is a book that 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: is a guide to the best cocktail bars, neighborhood pubs, 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: and all night dives. Yeah, and you probably if you 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: listen to our New Orleans mini series, you probably will 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: recognize her voice. For used put a bit of her 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: because she was just a wealth of fantastic information. It's 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: delight to talk to you, oh so much so. Yeah, 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: and particularly like New Orleans is a place that's very 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: famous for its drinking culture right now. Um. But also 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: alcohol has really shaped a lot of the industry there 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: for the entire time that New Orleans has been a thing. Yeah, 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: and it's a really unique drinking scene from probably anywhere 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: else in the United States. Absolutely, Um, for reasons that 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: that Elizabeth gets into an amazing, fascinating, bizarre detail. Yeah, 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: we could have kept going and talking to her forever, 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: but we had such a pack schedule. I just remember 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: at the end being like, but wait, you can you 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: can tell me about the water and she's like, yes, 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: you have to. Yeah, yeah, and right this this was 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: one that went on way longer than I think we 33 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: intended for it to, um, but was not long enough. 34 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: So many of our interviews could be described that way. Lute. Yeah, 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: but yeah we will at former Lauren and Annie and 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: Elizabeth take it away. I'm Elizabeth Pierce. I'm a drinks 37 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: the storian here in New Orleans. Good story, right, Yeah, 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: it seems obvious and then people say how did you 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: how did you end up here and not New Orleans? 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: But you know, like how did you start doing this? 41 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: And do you want to hear it's a It's a 42 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: super short story. Even if it were a long story, okay. 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: So I helped to create and open the Southern Food 44 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: and Beverage Museum. I was the founding curator there, despite 45 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: having no academic background in museums or history. A strong 46 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: liberal arts education prepares you to do anything, which I 47 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: bet both of you, all of you who might agree 48 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: with right absolutely so um. I worked with Lois Williams 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 1: for four years um learning how to make something out 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: of nothing, and that mattered because the museum opened in 51 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: early two thousand eight, and of course that year ended 52 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: with the Great Financial Apocalypse. Funny dried up, everybody got 53 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: laid off. I went on unemployment, drank heavily, and dated 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: a musician, which is the holy trinity if you just 55 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: need to shift your professional path. So two thousand nine 56 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: was the last year. It was a year there were 57 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: no jobs. It was the year that I learned that 58 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: both unemployment and musicians run out after six months. My 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: favorite joke, even though we're both still friends and the 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: museum stayed open through volunteers, that I needed a paying gig. 61 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: So I decided to take all of the programming that 62 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: I had been presenting that I had written and presenting 63 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: with the museum and I began to sell that to 64 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: convention and meeting planners. So it was the history of 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: New Orleans through food and drink, And after a couple 66 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: of years, I saw which way the wind was blowing. 67 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people in this town that 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: can talk about gumbo, but very few were grounding the 69 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: narrative of the city through its drinks. Thus was born 70 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: drink and learn what a what a drink? And learned 71 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: to drink and learn attempts to um, to ground the 72 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: narrative of a place through its drengths in the same 73 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: way that we're all pretty comfortable understanding history through war 74 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: is very grim um or politics or religion, um or 75 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: even art. Uh. And now I think even food people 76 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: are much more comfortable with um consuming culture or or 77 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: under framing culture. You know, in terms of food, the 78 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: drinks thing is always a surprise. But the thing is 79 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: it's there even when it's not there. So even when 80 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: it's illegal, it's still part of the story. And when 81 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: I say drinks historian, because I'm in New Orleans, everybody 82 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: assumes that means booze, but it doesn't. Necessarily I can 83 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: talk about the non alcoholic stuff, and frankly water. The 84 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: story of like drinkable water is um is fantastic and 85 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: important and um and obviously still not available in parts 86 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: of the world. So it is Uh. It's the history 87 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: of commerce and sanitation and of despair, enjoy and prohibition 88 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: and consumption and all of those things are are in 89 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: our drinks. Um. I'm stopping myself from going on a 90 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: giant water radical rate. That sounds incredibly Yeah. I just 91 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: put it over there. Yeah yeah, how however long you 92 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: have to talk with us, I'm going to come back 93 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: to it. But UM, but so how did how did 94 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: New Orleans become the I mean so many drinks started here? Um? 95 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: What environment let that happen? So I'm gonna answer a 96 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: slightly larger question than that, which is like why New 97 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: Orleans and drinking? Because that is that is how people 98 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: and New Orleans and drinking is how many people understand 99 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: my city. UM. Some people come for the architecture, and 100 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: they totally should. We have beautiful architecture, we have amazing 101 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: food and music. But there are other cities that also 102 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: have these elements. But somehow or additionally, UM, people come 103 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: here and they expect to drink a lot, or they 104 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: expect to see a lot of people drinking, even if 105 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: they're not drinking, and they will either look upon in 106 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: amusement or judgment or horror. Um. But the expectation is 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: always there. And it's actually part of the reason that 108 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: I ended up kind of focusing on the drinking, because 109 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: I felt like it was a distinguishing element about the city. 110 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: Like you cannot understand New Orleans unless you understand it's drinking. 111 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: You're not required to participate in it, but you listen, 112 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: need to know what's going on. And um, I think, well, 113 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: there are a lot of factors, but you gotta go 114 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: all the way back to the founding of the colony, 115 00:06:54,640 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: and we were pretty much left alone by Frozen. You're 116 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: founded by France. We were left alone by France because 117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: they couldn't figure out a way to make money from 118 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: New Orleans. Tried indigo, didn't really work, furs would spoil 119 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: unlike UM. I mean, there's some some tanning that went on, 120 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: but not like Canada where anything's freezing like forever furs 121 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: um cotton. Cotton will grow here, it's too wet, and 122 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: they hadn't figured out sugar. And plus they had all 123 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: of these colonies in the Caribbean, Santa Bang in particular, 124 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: so sugar they had, and not long after, you know, 125 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: they had the colony, but they were not really taking 126 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: care of it, which meant that boats were not coming here. Um, 127 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: the food was not coming on the regular. A lot 128 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: of people that were sent here were not people who 129 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: could necessarily take care of themselves in a swampy environment, 130 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: like thieves and prostitutes and criminals in general. Um. The 131 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: illustrative quote about that is there was a governor, our 132 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: last French governor, Carolac. He was sent over to kind 133 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: of clean up the town and he told Louis whichever 134 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: Louis it was fourteen fifteen suthing like if I sent 135 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: home all of the criminal elements of New Orleans or Louisiana, 136 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: there would be no one left. So but what that 137 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: what that means is, um, you had people who were 138 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: already stewed to not entirely respect the law and then 139 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: had nothing to support the thought that they should. So 140 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: smuggling begins quickly, um with primarily the Caribbean, because it's 141 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: like right there, although things are also coming down the 142 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 1: river on Mrsimi River and you're getting um, you know, 143 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: basic food stuffs, but you're also getting liquor because liquor keeps. 144 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: People wanted wine wine from France if they could get it, 145 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: but wine on a sea voyage unless it's fortified like 146 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: port or Madeira, it's not showing up in the best 147 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: of state. UM. So like from I think seventeen forty 148 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: seven forty two because when you have the first taverns 149 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: that open licensed by the crown, and the fees to open. 150 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: These taverns supported uh the charity hospital and a and 151 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: like and also assisted orphans. So I love this. From 152 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: the very early states, we were drinking, you know, for 153 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the sick and the children. Um. But but it's because 154 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: like we're in a swamp. Life was hard, the government's 155 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: ignoring you. Things are goind of crappy. Then like you 156 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: you drink, right, this is what people do and people 157 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: continue to do in difficult situations. And you can contrast 158 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: that with another colony that is growing around the same time, 159 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: and that would be in New England. But the people 160 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: who settled in New England, we're not thieves, criminals. They 161 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: were very earnest, they were hard working. They believed in um, 162 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: you know that that God had brought them to this 163 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: new place and the way that the pilgrims drank was 164 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: they drank beer because that was safe, you know, safe 165 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: safe drinking instead of water. Um, and being a drunk 166 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: was was viewed as something that could be very detrimental 167 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: to the colony. If you're drunk, thing you can't plow, 168 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: can't build a cabin or whatever. It wasn't only about 169 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: the morality of intoxication. It was about the logistics of 170 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: the colony. And that was not around here. That was 171 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: not an issue. It was a very independent streak um. 172 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: And also way more men than families. The women come later, um. 173 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: And so you have you have a lot of single 174 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: men in a pretty crappy situation with unreliable food. Maybe 175 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: you know, hunting, maybe the Native Americans are going to 176 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: give you something. But like the one solid the one 177 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: through line is rom doesn't spoil um or brandy if 178 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: you could get it. And this continues even as New 179 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: Orleans grows and we become prosperous because we get into 180 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: the sugar industry, which I think Jessica might have talked 181 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: with you all about a little bit like the influence 182 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,239 Speaker 1: of the Caribbean and Santa may So the city flourishes 183 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: in the eighteen thirties, So now we have families and stuff. However, 184 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: who is coming here to unload their raft from Kentucky? 185 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: These like wild drinking, They were called kane. Tuck's just 186 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: still a word we toss around it right now and then. 187 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: And you know, it's like a jug of whiskey chained 188 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: to the rudder you're pulling down the river. You arrive, 189 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: you sell whatever it is you're selling, and now you're 190 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: a single man in a port town with money in 191 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: your pocket, and you multiply that by the thousands. So 192 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: it is this. It isn't the only thing that's happening here, 193 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: but it is happening for a considerable amount of time 194 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: that New Orleans is a party town. And in fact, 195 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: even when we were still a French colony, like the 196 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: news back in Spain which just kind of talk about 197 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: New Orleans as this like exotic other we were always 198 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: framed kind of in terms of the way that the 199 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: Caribbean was, but we didn't have the place intation economy yet. Um. 200 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: There were people of color were enslaved, some free also, Um, 201 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: So it was this zotic locale, but not in the 202 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: same way that Santa Me wants um. But anyway, so 203 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: all of these like facets contribute to an identity, and 204 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: that one of the pillars of that identity is about 205 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: cutting loose, and drinking is an integral part of that. 206 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: Eventually that is like woven into how people understand New Orleans. 207 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: And the food is coming into because of France, you know, 208 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: like French, just like you're what you eat is a 209 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: part of who you are. And and then we you know, 210 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: we've become Americans, like a particular kind of a folks 211 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: coming down the river, and and then you know, and 212 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: then here we are, and everything that gets sort of 213 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: created or tied onto that reinforces this very very early 214 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: iteration of the city's sensibility. There's a really great book 215 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: that you will not have time to read, and it 216 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: is called Accidental City and it gets to you to 217 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: eighteen o three, the Louisiana Purchase. And I read that 218 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: book and I was like, like, that's my city. Like 219 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: we had we were who we were by eighteen o three, 220 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: and then it just continued. Now, oh, when did the 221 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: bar scene develop kind of kind of what it is 222 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: like like sort of what you see to today, which 223 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: is actually a very large question. I suppose because there's 224 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: a lot of different bars around the room. Game. Yeah, um, 225 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: so I think that again the the So there's this 226 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: Southern sense of hospitality, and that comes from the fact 227 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: that most of the South was a grarian and rural 228 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: So this is like going back to the Greeks and 229 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: stuff like, you have to be hospitable to the stranger 230 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: because they've probably traveled very far and there's nowhere else, 231 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's no else to go. And so that 232 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: Southern nous is something that becomes a part of New Orleans, 233 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: even though we are a city. So hospitality is like 234 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: in there, and that translates to a plus, like how 235 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: can you make money. We have a lot of people 236 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: coming here and they're thirsty or they're hungry, and so 237 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: bars open in places where they're going to be successful, 238 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: which means you need a thriving economy or you need 239 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: enough economy to sustain it. So by the eighteen thirties, 240 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: New Orleans is becoming very, very wealthy. And while fortunes 241 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: dip after the Civil War, they don't entirely because we're 242 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: a port town. In contrast to um parts of the 243 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: South that were completely depended on cotton and like that's 244 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: all they had or something. Um. And we were a 245 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: tourist town and we didn't you know, we weren't burned. 246 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: And people people keep coming here. UM. So places are 247 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: open because they're going to be able to stay open 248 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: because people want to come here. And by by the 249 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, everybody was like, oh, it's a fun 250 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: place to be. So I think you you draw entrepreneurs um, 251 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: whatever that means, to places to open a business that 252 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: they believe it will be successful in. And New Orleans 253 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: has like there are there are things were not very 254 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: good at. But one of the things we are good 255 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: at is showing showing people a good time, and so 256 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: you want to It's kind of like what happened in Nashville. 257 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: It's like it starts with one brewery and then you're, oh, 258 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: the brewis goes not so bad, and then let's have 259 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: another brewery, and then you know, and then it grows 260 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: and grows. And so I would say the the quantity 261 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: of the bars is you know, sort of comes up 262 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: out of that long line of like knowing I'm an 263 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: open there's a lot of people They're gonna come drink. Also, 264 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: locals drink because the summer's summer slow, and so you 265 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: need the locals to keep you open when it's not 266 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, tourist season. However, um, I would say over 267 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: the last well, like since Katrina, definitely, but maybe over 268 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: the last twenty years or so, the city has been 269 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: um embracing external trends, like we never quit serving cocktails, 270 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: but the consoles were pretty like basic, like a you know, 271 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: the old fashioned in the Manhattan. The standbys never went 272 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: away because people drink like their parents and their grandparents here. 273 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: I think the rest of America by the sixties and 274 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: seventies people are like, screw the old man, whatever he's doing, 275 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. But here people would 276 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: continue to go to restaurants and bars that they their 277 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: parents have gone to grandparents, and you order sort of 278 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: the same thing. The old fashioned never died. But eventually 279 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: you have other people who come in and say, there's 280 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: this craft movement like fresh Juice and you know, and 281 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: all of that, and you know, I mean got Neil 282 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: Bodenheimer at Cure. He really was like he's a homeboy, 283 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: and he went away and then he came back and 284 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: he opened here and he said, he's like this is 285 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: gonna be This is a New York bar, This is 286 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: not any Warleans bar. And and he actually uh ended 287 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: up kind of anchoring and a neighborhood that has been revitalized. 288 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: Uh So he saw that opportunity and he kind of 289 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: could see ahead too that this could be a town 290 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: that can embrace not just an older way of drinking, 291 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: but a newer way of drinking. Why do you think 292 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: that sense of tradition um exists here? And where you know, 293 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: every time we do an episode about a park tale 294 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: like we're like and then there was a dark time 295 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: of the nineteen eighties, Yeah, where everything sacks on the 296 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: beach and um, what what do you think that that's 297 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: as a traditions instrum here? Well, I mean I think 298 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: that we are a city whose sportunes have been built 299 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: on presenting an ideal that people arrive here expecting that 300 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: simultaneously we also believe in so like if no one 301 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: ever came to listen to a jazz musician ever again, 302 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: people would still like learn to play instruments because that 303 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: is a part of our cities culture. But we and 304 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: I it's like as New Orleanians, but especially those of 305 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: us who work in the hospitality industry. We are performing 306 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: New Orleans for you. And so these elements, this like 307 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: cocktail culture or drinking culture, actually let's call it drinking culture, 308 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: was defined early on, like late nineteenth century, like these, 309 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: these the satarak, the old fashion in Manhattan, like these 310 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: things have just been part of the through line, this thread, 311 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: and so we just kept doing the same dance over 312 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: and over. Plus we like them. They're delicious, uh, I mean, 313 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: there are historic cocktails that nobody drinks anymore because they're disgusting, 314 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, like the good ones, the good ones emerge. 315 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: We have some more for you of our interview with 316 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: Elizabeth the First we have a quick break for word 317 00:20:50,320 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. We're back, Thank you sponsor. Let's get 318 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: back into the interview. So I do want to tell 319 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: you something though, because I think you're your listeners would 320 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: be interested in knowing why we have open containers, right absolutely, yeah, 321 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: all right, So you're going to get a very short 322 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: history of drinking in public in America. Looks like five 323 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: centiss So, drinking in America in public was legal until 324 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: about the nineteen sixties. What was illegal was public drunkenness, 325 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: and that goes like the pilgrim thing that I told 326 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: you about. So in the nineteen fifties, there was an 327 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: alderman in Chicago who had been hearing from the police 328 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: that they were struggling with this thing that was called bottles. 329 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: So it's a group of singlemen, indigence or homeless or whatever, 330 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: and they pull their money and they buy one bottle 331 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: liquor stand on a corner, passing around. Eventually there'd be 332 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: a fight, would be some sort of trouble, and the 333 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: cops said, we want to stop this before it starts. 334 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: How can we do this? And so the city council said, okay, 335 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: no more drinking in public. Now you don't have to 336 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: wait for somebody to be drunk or to cause a 337 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: fight or whatever. We're gonna nip this problem in the button. 338 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: Over time, other cities began adopting this because vagrancy laws 339 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: began to be tossed out as um unconstitutional. You can't 340 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: arrest some money just because they're hanging around, and so 341 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: this was a way for cities to get in front 342 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 1: of a homeless problem, what I can call the hobo factor. 343 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: And of course there were some people who were targeted 344 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: in some people who weren't people of color, You're core 345 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: and um these laws are enacted piecemeal cities, counties across 346 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: the country, and then of course if one county does it, 347 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: then the county next to it will do because then 348 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: people are just moving right, So eventually it becomes pretty 349 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: much illegal to drink anywhere in public in the United 350 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: States by like the mid nineteen seventies. In the meantime, 351 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: the Orleans had a vice district prior to World War One. 352 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: It closed actually because of World War One, because all 353 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: of these soldiers were getting STDs, and the U. S 354 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: Government was like, if you want to be a port 355 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: and embarkation, you have to um not have all the 356 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: free love. So uh, this Vice district was also a 357 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: home of jazz. Story Bill and like Louis Armstrong play 358 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: the Storyville King all or all these great musicians. So 359 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: that gets shut down and then it's prohibition, which like 360 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: everybody Charlie durned during Prohibition. But the clubs are you know, 361 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: less um less accessible, less uh less reliable because there 362 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: were still raids and things. And it's not until World 363 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: War two when we become a port of embarkation again 364 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: and you have tens of thousands of single young men 365 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: with money in their pocket coming through here looking for 366 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: a good time. And Bourbon Street was a commercial street. 367 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: It was not an entertainment district. But a lot of 368 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: these clubs that had closed before World War One kind 369 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: of begin reopening. You create this new district. And so 370 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: it's not until after and there's this it's actually I'm 371 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: pulling this information from a book by Richard Campanella, which 372 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: is Bourbon's Bourbon's Street, a geography. Um so he he 373 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: did all the hard work on this, and so it's 374 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: not until after World War two that you really begin 375 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: to see Bourbon Street showing up in like travel magazines 376 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: or tourism things. And again it's clubs where people go 377 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: inside to listen to music, to eat, and it's it's 378 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: like going to Vegas and going to see a show, 379 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, and locals went there. It was classy, where 380 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: your gloves you had, you know. So unfortunately, many of 381 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: these places were owned by the mob, and they were 382 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: money laundering. There was prostitutional gambling happening in the back. 383 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: And eventually we get an earnest d a who's like, 384 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: I'm gonna shut all this down, conducting lots of raids, 385 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: and it becomes this quote of seedier and seedier locals 386 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: don't want to go um. If you don't have vice money, 387 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: then you can't keep up the the shine the inside 388 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: and little I little these clubs UM they either close 389 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: or they're barely staying open, and nobody wants to go in. 390 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: And so one bright day, an unknown employee opened a 391 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: window and sold a drink through that window. You don't 392 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: even have to come in my club. I'll just sell 393 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: you a drink right here. And soon a lot of 394 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: people started doing it, particularly on Bourbon Street. The city 395 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: council tried to shut it down. Um the vall was 396 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: overturned as being like too vague because I think they 397 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: wrote it hastily. But then by then everybody's making a 398 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: lot of money and people really like it because you 399 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: can't do it anywhere else in the United States. Initially 400 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: the plan was to just keep it in the French Quarter, 401 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: and they decided it would be too confusing for tourists, 402 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: which is actually what Savannah did. Savannah kept it in 403 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: a historic district, but not the rest of the city. 404 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: But even pushing it, everybody's pushing it because if you're 405 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: like one block over. Why can't I do that? You know? So? 406 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: Uh so here we are, so that is why it 407 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: is legal to walk around with a drink here. But 408 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: I really I always encourage visitors to try to drink 409 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: in the open like we do, which is it's not 410 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: a desperate, forced march where you have to arrive at 411 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: a destination of profound intoxication in a very short time. 412 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: But instead it's just like we pour a go cop 413 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: as we call him, go cup. My husband and I 414 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: poor a go cup and we walk our dog, or 415 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: if we're walking down the street to a friends for 416 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: dinner a couple of blocks away, poor a go cup, 417 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: which is frankly, I think a lot of people do 418 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: in in this country, but they put it in a furnace, 419 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: you know. Um we I have had beer at children's 420 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: birthday parties in public, you know, on the on the levee. 421 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: And it isn't this unlike the rest of the country 422 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: where drinking in public is now associated with vagrancy and 423 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: poverty and it's seedy or vulgar um. Here it just 424 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: is it's just a delight. It's very civilized and it 425 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: isn't hasty. And if you have a drink in your hand. 426 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: And this is true for coffee too, but you have 427 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: a beer, it'll kind of slow you down and makes 428 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: you pause, kind of look around, like, oh, I had 429 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: noticed that house in my neighborhood before that balcony, stop 430 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: and listen to a musician, Like it alters the way 431 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,479 Speaker 1: that you interact in public space. And the other thing 432 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: that I think it does, and this is stretching it 433 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: a little bit, but like go with me, Okay, when 434 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: you are in a restaurant, we all were all at 435 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: a table and if someone came and joined us, we 436 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: would look askance at them. That is weird because this 437 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: is like our area and it's like we planted a 438 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: flag right safer. But if you're at a bar where 439 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: people sit next to you and they will talk to you, 440 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: and you do not think there is anything amiss with that. 441 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: Now you may not talk back to them, or I 442 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: maybe creepy or whatever, but the the interaction is publicly 443 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: sanctioned and it often leads to some really delightful encounters unexpected. 444 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: You know, you meet people in a bar, you don't 445 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: meet in a restaurant the same way. And so I 446 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: believe that the walking with the drink and carry the 447 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: spirit of the bar, which that it makes you just 448 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: a little more open to the chance encounter the possibility. Um. 449 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: Yeah too engage with the world around you. Yeah. And 450 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: if it's not, I mean a lot of other a 451 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: lot of other cultures in America, I think think of 452 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: drinking as like a way to get drunks and it 453 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: has to be No. I mean it does, it does, 454 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: and it can and we do. Um. But the other 455 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: thing is, in general, I mean, let's all acknowledge like 456 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: alcoholism is an illness and it is a problem. There 457 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: are a lot of but there are a lot of 458 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 1: problems that are around. So I'm not condoning anybody who 459 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, struggles with that. Having said that, Um, we 460 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: live in what was in a country that is governed 461 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: by a very profound Protestant ethic. Um. You know, how 462 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: many listicals about productivity can there possibly be? You think 463 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: you're you think you've seen them all, and there's there's 464 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: just more and books about getting things done right. And 465 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: that is not a It's not high in the list 466 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: of values of New Orleans. It doesn't mean that we 467 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: don't It doesn't mean that we don't accomplish anything, but 468 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: we value you know, interaction and family and friends, you 469 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: know all that. And so because of that, if you 470 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: have too much to do and you wake up hungover, 471 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: as long as you have not bothered anybody, then no 472 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: one is shaking their finger at you and saying, oh, 473 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: you wasted. You know, at the time, it's like this happens. 474 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: Trying not to make it happen too regularly. Um, but 475 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: like this is what it is to be human. It 476 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: is one of the things. And it goes like way back, 477 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: just so far back that you know, as early as 478 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: there was alcohol, there was toasting. And it's this way 479 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: to create an engage with community. And no, you don't 480 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: have to have it, but for some reason it helps 481 00:32:51,000 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: I tast No, I guess I say cheers. Yeah, it's 482 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: also my I signed my emails cheers. And it's how 483 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: Abigail and I end our podcast. Yeah. So now that 484 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: I think about it, they say, chairs, yeah, it's a 485 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: good one. Um. Do you do have a favorite cocktail 486 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: stories from most of those some of the big ones 487 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: in the class? Bo uh? I mean, you know, you 488 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: get I'm sure that most of them come down to 489 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: I was born at my bar and bourt things into 490 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: a glass but are there are there any really really 491 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: good works? Okay, So I'm not going to give too 492 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: much away about the Sazarak because I would encourage your 493 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: listeners to check out the Drink and Learn podcast and 494 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: listen to the Sazarak episode. UM. And the reason that 495 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: you should do that is because Um, Abigail and I 496 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: tell the entire history of New Orleans using only the 497 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: ingredients and a Sazerak cocktail. So the Sazarak is the 498 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: official cocktail of New Orleans. In two thousand eight, the 499 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: easy in a legislature passed a resolution making the Sazeract 500 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: the city's official drink. And that sounds like a joke, 501 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: but in fact it is. It is just rounded in 502 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: the story of the city and every component of it 503 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: was either invented here, found a home here is illustrative 504 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: of people who came here, whether it's French, Caribbean, American, 505 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: all of these forces that kind of combined to um 506 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: to inform the evolution of the city. UM. So that's 507 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of it's it's a story I 508 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: tell a lot because I, uh, because I get hired 509 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: to do it. Um. But but yeah, they and I 510 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: think really more than any cocktail I can think of. 511 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: There's so much just literally in the glass. I like, 512 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: I listened to y'all's Manhattan, which tends to be more 513 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: representative of other cocktail histories, and it's like they're started 514 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: to be the seven. There was a new product Vermouth. 515 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: People are trying to figure out how to use it. 516 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: Maybe it happened here, maybe it happened there. It got 517 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: this great name of a place that was has a 518 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: lot of people. So everybody's like, hey, let's drink in Manhattan. UM. 519 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: And I have I've read Phil Green's book. It's great, UM, 520 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: but particularly because he talks about like what Vermouth did 521 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: and how it changes, how it so the Manhattan occurs 522 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: on a continuum of drinks starting with the original cocktail, 523 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: whiskey cocktail, UM, and it becomes called an old fashioned 524 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: because people begin doing all kinds of stuff with this 525 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: very basic thing. And then you have what I like 526 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: to call old man who shakes fists at skuy, who's like, 527 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: I want my whiskey cocktail the old fashioned way, And 528 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: eventually that is that's how it becomes called that. So 529 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: many cocktails the story that they tell they can be standalone, 530 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: but they're more interesting in looking at the continuum, it's 531 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: like what came before? How did this evolve? And it's 532 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: rarely about one guy um And I think that if 533 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: there's any takeaway here, you are never inventing a cocktail 534 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. And all of your environment and all 535 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: of the history of drinking is like informing you. So 536 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: whenever people talk about like who invented the dacri, it's 537 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: like the Caribbean invented the dacori because you have rum, 538 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: and you have a lime, and you have sugar and 539 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: they're all there. And so people have been drinking dacris 540 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: like forever and then eventually it's like, oh, it's in 541 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 1: Cuba and there's this room and this sugar and this look, 542 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: this is the name of a place and I'm drinking 543 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: it here and I'm a white guy who you know 544 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: is gonna go back and tell my story. But so 545 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: that's like I guess. But when I say, like, when 546 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: you asked me like for a good story, that's that 547 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: to me is like the better story. And that's what this, 548 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: That's what drink and Learn is about. It's like if 549 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: you've got them all in a line, got all the 550 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: like all the cocktails you would get like the World 551 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: World History, and everyone says they wish that I were 552 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: their American history teacher, and I say it whiskey helps, 553 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 1: but but it's true. Um, I will tell you this 554 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: is probably not gonna make it in there, but I'm 555 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: going to tell you one of my favorite stories of 556 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: somebody making a drink. My friends Stevia Mata, who works 557 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: at Latitude twenty nine, fantastic TV bar, super talented bartender. 558 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: Um kind of made his way, worked his way, did 559 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: a lot of catering gigs withky soda, rum and coke 560 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Didn't know anything about uh cocktails, and 561 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: so he parleyed a job into parleyed like this past 562 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: catering experience when I think he was underage, you know, 563 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: and the eventually gets a job at Bubba Gumps. So 564 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: somebody orders an old Fashioned and he doesn't know what 565 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: that is, and so we asked the bartender. It was 566 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: like a little guy, It's like, how do I make that? 567 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: What do I do? Because there was no internet? There's 568 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: not on your phone right like there was probably a 569 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: Mr Boston's or something. So he says, grab the bottle 570 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: with the paper on it. Meaning the bidders just make 571 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,439 Speaker 1: it to put some put some whiskey and sugar, mush 572 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: up a cherry and then the bottle. At the paper 573 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: Steve made an old old Fashioned with Worcester sauce, and 574 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: it was it was not sent back. He made four 575 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: of them that night, presumably for the same person who 576 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: thought was an interesting I mean, like at its essence, 577 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 1: it is a bitter product, you know. Ummi. But yeah, 578 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: so that's my favorite, Megan a drink story, you know, 579 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 1: had Steve. If this makes it in there, it's not 580 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: anywhere else story. I don't think maybe he was here. 581 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: I've never thought about it, but I think that like 582 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: that anchovy note and risty she would it could actually 583 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: be really good with whiskey. Yeah, you have to have 584 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: a very little bit that I feel like he was 585 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: blug blug yeah. Um. Speaking again about the sense of 586 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: community around here, how does a lot of cultures are 587 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: a little bit jealousy close with their uh with with 588 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: some of their their cultural elements, you know, like or 589 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: or that they have a hard time I'm welcoming strangers 590 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: into participating. But food, it's rarely like that. Most people 591 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: want to share food and dream um and be that 592 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: is not what New Orleans is about? How uh can 593 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: you speak a little bit about that? So I grew 594 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: up an hour from here. My mother would would say, 595 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: would tell you that I am not from New Orleans. 596 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: And if you all live in Atlanta, you understand the 597 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: South is very It's like where are you from? It 598 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: means where you're born. And for a very long time, 599 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: if you said that you are from New Orleans and 600 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: somebody would say, where'd you go to school? And they 601 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: then high school so they can organized understand you in 602 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: terms of this city. Um, throughout all that time, we 603 00:40:52,239 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: were offering, we were selling our cities culture. Um, happily 604 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's a good's pretty good way to make 605 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: a living and or you know, offering hospitality people come 606 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: and visit. But I do think that there was and 607 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: in some ways continues to be, and it's probably true 608 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: in a lot of cities there's two cities. There's the 609 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: city that you get to experience when you come here, 610 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: that we offer to you or sell you or show you. 611 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,399 Speaker 1: And then every now and then you have little moments 612 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: where you get to peek into the other city is 613 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: the city where people live. And sometimes it's less glamorous 614 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: because like we have to do laundry and sometimes there's 615 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: something that's just very honest. I really I prefer not 616 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: to use the word authentic um that because like what 617 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, what like what is offen? Everything is real, 618 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: nothing is fake. You know, you can touch it. But 619 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 1: is um a view that is lived a little more 620 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: lived in and it can be in some ways more 621 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: magical and in some ways more raw or disappointing. So 622 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: prior to Katrina, that was like the model of the 623 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: two cities, and there was a very big line even 624 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: if you moved here that I think you were not 625 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: of here. And since then, um, you know, of the 626 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: city flooded. It's just that's a damn lot and it's 627 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: a thing that people um forget. Like if your house burnt, 628 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: so I hope it doesn't, you would still have a job, 629 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: you would still have a post office and a grocery, 630 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: you would have community to support you. But if everything burned, 631 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: it's like then what like it? It was very hard, 632 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: and it was harder for some people than others who 633 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: had resources not just financial but just like social cultural resources, 634 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: and we needed people's help. And so people came and 635 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people came and they were like, there's 636 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: something that's really special about this place, what they value, 637 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: what you can kind of be yourself here, or for 638 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: some people they could either their selves and they're like, 639 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: I want to I want to stay here, And a 640 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: lot of people stayed, and since then, more and more 641 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: people have been coming as they discovered this great place. 642 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: This is the same thing with ash Um, because they're 643 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: looking for something real. Just thinking about the babies and beer. 644 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: We were half that although people have children here, we 645 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,439 Speaker 1: have like schools and stuff. You know, it's the city 646 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: of families, and so there's been a loosening of this divide. 647 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: But it's also been kind of fraught because people worry about, oh, 648 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 1: the people moving in, But I'm like people have been 649 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: damn moving in since the cane touch showed up. You know, 650 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: like it's it does, isn't. It isn't to say that 651 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: city planning isn't important. There shouldn't be an awareness of 652 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,839 Speaker 1: like how can things change and people getting priced out 653 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: of neighborhoods or gentrification, which sometimes gentrification just means fixing 654 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: up a house that looks like crap before, and you know, 655 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 1: like there's there's a lot of words. There's a lot 656 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: of things in that. But um, since Kashrina, since the storm, 657 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,720 Speaker 1: so that's what we call it here. You only reads 658 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: people say in storm. Um, there has been more tolerance 659 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: of like where are you from? And like I and 660 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: now in the circle because I'm from southern Louisiana. My 661 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: husband's from Lafayette apparently that's which is like two and 662 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,320 Speaker 1: a half hours away. That's close enough to um so. 663 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: But I think this is true of a lot of 664 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: places that depend on tourism. I had some women from 665 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: on my tour from Hawaii and we had a really 666 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: long talk about that. How you do a thing that 667 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: is a part, integral, integral part of your culture, like 668 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 1: the hula dance, and you know what it means in here, 669 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: and you do it for people who say that's pretty 670 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: and it means nothing, but it doesn't mean that. You're like, 671 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: I'm not showing you ma hula dance too bad? So 672 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: I you and you give like this little that. We 673 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: have second lines here, so many wedding second lines, and 674 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: all these people are going around and I know I 675 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: had to dance because they're self conscious because they're like, 676 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,439 Speaker 1: I'm in a parade and everyone is staring and maybe 677 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: I should dance. I don't know. And that is not 678 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: how second lines happen in other neighborhoods. But do I 679 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: feel like, no second lines unless you are a real 680 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,959 Speaker 1: New Orleans. No pay the musicians, pay the cops. Everybody's broke, 681 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I mean the musicians are often broke, 682 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: and so are as those are a police force. You know, 683 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: Like it'd be great if if the wedding planner who's 684 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,840 Speaker 1: like putting this together, could say, hey, this is what 685 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: this means. This is the origin of this thing that 686 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: you're doing. But I've also kind of come to a 687 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: place a piece with this because do you know why 688 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: we feed each other cake at a wedding? Why why 689 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: the bride the room feed each other know, and we 690 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 1: all do it, and so you'll have sweet words in 691 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: your mouth. You start your marriage with with sweetness in 692 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: your mouth. You have sweet words, right. Body knows when 693 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 1: we do that. Nobody knows the garter is because you're 694 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: gonna go. Nobody knows about like you know, like I know, 695 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: that's not mean anything. It's like that's what I mean. 696 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: You know, we just do these things and we and 697 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, that sounds that sounds good. I want 698 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: to parade. Okay, so I got off the drinking thing. 699 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: But it's all I connected. It really is. Everything is connected. 700 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: And this interview is not over yet. But we have 701 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,320 Speaker 1: first one more quick break for a word from our sponsor, 702 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor, and back to the interview. 703 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: That's a lot of those beautiful things about I mean, 704 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: like you're saying way back in the beginning, like the 705 00:47:54,440 --> 00:48:00,440 Speaker 1: stories of mere wheat lives have been determined by and 706 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: certain of water. Um usually was because you know, we 707 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: have we have made here before, we had parts with 708 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,879 Speaker 1: real like me infant with alcohol before. Yeah, I feel 709 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: like this is just a work priority priorities. Also beast 710 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: of bacteria. Uh. I wanted to ask what what experiences 711 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: with food and drink did you have growing up? Oh, 712 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: my mother was a very adventurous cook at a time 713 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,839 Speaker 1: when people opened a lot of hands, and she um 714 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 1: like took cooking classes and uh we made like homade, pizza, 715 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: pasta and Chinese when that was only like one you know, 716 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 1: there was no Mandarin or uh there or our various 717 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,759 Speaker 1: regions and you know, so you like American Chinese rood, 718 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: but like we made our own roll and in thy 719 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 1: seven that was pretty was pretty cool in a very 720 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: small town. Um. My mother is a tremendous fan of 721 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 1: the old fashioned, and my dad used to make them 722 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: for her. We went out to dinner a lot with 723 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: my grandparents, and I was the only grandchild, so um, 724 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 1: I always brought a book. But I learned how to 725 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 1: how to eat and drink out, to like to behave 726 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: yourself in a restaurant, and to enjoy myself. And uh, 727 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what this means about where I ended 728 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: up now, but there was. My grandfather owned a feed 729 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: store for over forty years. He and he and my 730 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 1: grandmother owned this and UM, a lot of times my 731 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: my mom and dad would would work there sometimes on 732 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,800 Speaker 1: the weekends. Can't kind of help out, And so we 733 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,640 Speaker 1: would all go out to this the local fancy place 734 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 1: in Covington, and we had a waiter, Mr Jack, and 735 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: he knew everyone's streetquarder. Grandmother would get a glass of chardonnay, 736 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: grandfather got crowned on. My dad would usually just get 737 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 1: jacked anials in the rocks. My mother get an old 738 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:09,240 Speaker 1: fashioned not too sweet, and I would say the usual please, 739 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,720 Speaker 1: which was orange juice in crediting, not a Shirley temple 740 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: in a rocks glass like everybody else. And so I 741 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: learned like the pleasure of the whole for dinner cocktail 742 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,560 Speaker 1: and that everybody would enjoy this. Nobody's getting hammered, you know, 743 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 1: like it's like this, it's this part you have a 744 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: cocktail and then you have you know, soup, soad or whatever. 745 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,040 Speaker 1: And yeah, I just kind of think that that U 746 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:46,400 Speaker 1: And when we traveled, Um again, my my parents were 747 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: both um, very not adventurous in the sense of like 748 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:57,120 Speaker 1: climbing mountains, but um, we would seek out like what 749 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: what was of the place and and recognizing that the food. 750 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: Let I would say, less the drink because that was 751 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,920 Speaker 1: a sort of a harder thing in the seventies and 752 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,759 Speaker 1: early eighties. Um, but yeah, like what's the food here? 753 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,279 Speaker 1: What do we eat here? And so learning that food 754 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 1: and drink is um part of cultural personality. This was 755 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: something I learned really early on. Thanks Mom, and I 756 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:35,799 Speaker 1: don't I don't think we've covered this. How how did 757 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: you decide to make cocktails and their history your your career? Oh, 758 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: so it was from working with the Food Museum and 759 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,920 Speaker 1: I was doing food and drink and then it it 760 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:58,400 Speaker 1: was a combination of immersed a bit of mercenary attitude 761 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:05,359 Speaker 1: and also know my own shifting interests. The very first 762 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,840 Speaker 1: exhibit I did for the Food Museum with Liz Williams, 763 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 1: she like, I had known Liz for a while and 764 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,920 Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to work in food and drink stuff. 765 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,719 Speaker 1: I was teaching at the University of New Orleans, and 766 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: she said, do you want to curate an exhibit? And 767 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant, so I said yes, 768 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: and she said, we have a donated location. It's gonna 769 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 1: be on the drinks of New Orleans, and like that's 770 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,399 Speaker 1: what she gave me, along with a couple of people 771 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: to call. And so I made an exhibit in nine weeks. 772 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,840 Speaker 1: And I didn't know I could do that, but she 773 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 1: hoped I could, I guess. But then after that I 774 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,759 Speaker 1: got into like we did more more food stuff. Um. 775 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,800 Speaker 1: But as I so, when I worked at the museum, 776 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,799 Speaker 1: I was doing food and drink without I would say 777 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 1: more food because it's sort of more sets, more southern story. 778 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 1: But then when I got laid off off and I 779 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: started doing demos for conventions all around the city. It 780 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,759 Speaker 1: is way easier to tote a bag of liquor than 781 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,040 Speaker 1: like a burner and pots and make gumbo. So it 782 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: was a little bit of bad um, But also it 783 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:23,279 Speaker 1: was just a recognition that, um, I think, like the drink, 784 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,120 Speaker 1: drink culture, drink history, this is still new relatively speaking, 785 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: even if you're just looking at like the books that 786 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,920 Speaker 1: people are writing. Um, there's a lot more food culture 787 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: being covered than drink culture. Tons of cocktail recipes, so 788 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 1: many cocktail books, but not a lot really looking at 789 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: um history and culture in place and anthropology and all that. 790 00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 1: And and I just thought, like I lived in this town. 791 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a drinks but overtime now because I 792 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,680 Speaker 1: do some work at the Sazarat liquor company, so I've 793 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: been learning a lot more about whiskey and a mayor 794 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,000 Speaker 1: in history. And then and then I get asked to 795 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 1: do things. So like you all talked to Amanda at 796 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 1: the h n OC they did it rum symposium and 797 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: can tell you all about Louisiana a round now. And 798 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,759 Speaker 1: you know, so this is how these things have been. 799 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,600 Speaker 1: You get somebody says, can you give a talk and 800 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,239 Speaker 1: you've never researched it at all? You lie you're like, 801 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,160 Speaker 1: of course they can give a talk about that. How 802 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 1: long does it have to be? And then you learn it? 803 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,839 Speaker 1: And so now I got all that in my back 804 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:32,279 Speaker 1: pocket and for you know the future. Yeah. Um, where 805 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 1: where can people fund your podcast? So? Um, the Southern 806 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 1: Food and Beverage Museum has is sort of a host. 807 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,960 Speaker 1: Uh if you're looking for the like a website. Does 808 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,960 Speaker 1: anybody listen to podcast on a website? I don't know? Yeah, 809 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:56,479 Speaker 1: what's conspiracy people? Okay, So you can find the Drink 810 00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:01,040 Speaker 1: and Learn podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts, and uh. 811 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,239 Speaker 1: You can also find me at Drink and Learn a 812 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:05,960 Speaker 1: Drink and Learn in all the ways, Drink and Learn 813 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: dot com and Drink and Learn on Instagram. I drink 814 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 1: you know all the drink and learn. Um. I do 815 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,239 Speaker 1: have a book out which I don't know if you 816 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 1: all Nope, Nope. It's called Drink Debt, which is a 817 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,000 Speaker 1: guide to the bars of New Orleans. I visited them 818 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 1: all so you don't have to, and it gives you 819 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,879 Speaker 1: kind of insight into the sensibility personality of each bar. 820 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,960 Speaker 1: It's not a review, it's just because people ask me 821 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,680 Speaker 1: all the time, what's the best bar in New Orleans, 822 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,960 Speaker 1: and I say, you know, did you just get engaged 823 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,319 Speaker 1: or do you want to drinks to forget your name? 824 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:46,880 Speaker 1: Cheap very different places? Yeah? Oh and come take it 825 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 1: to work right, yes? Yes, yes, I don't know if 826 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna say, like, how you'll introduce me or we're 827 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,759 Speaker 1: like because I know you, because you all talk about 828 00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,080 Speaker 1: other stuff, eating up to and whatever. Yeah, I should come. 829 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,759 Speaker 1: This brings us to the end of this interview. We 830 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:08,279 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed doing it. Yes, yes, uh. 831 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,160 Speaker 1: And if anyone's working on some interesting cocktails around this 832 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,520 Speaker 1: this season, we would love to hear about those, oh 833 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 1: absolutely always yes. And also I have a lot of 834 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: friends actually that are going to New Orleans, mostly for 835 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,520 Speaker 1: New Year's Okay, yeah, so if any of you listeners 836 00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,719 Speaker 1: are going that way, are you live there and you 837 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: want to tell us your cocktail tales, Yeah, we would 838 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,359 Speaker 1: love to hear them. We would or or a book 839 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: a tour with Elizabeth with a Drink and Learn. Yes, yes, um, 840 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,560 Speaker 1: and we would love to hear from you. If you 841 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,879 Speaker 1: would like to emails, you can. Our email is Hello 842 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,520 Speaker 1: at savor pod dot com. We're also on social Media. 843 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at 844 00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: Savor pod and we do hope to hear from you. 845 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,879 Speaker 1: Savor is a production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media. 846 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit 847 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,879 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 848 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,719 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super 849 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,680 Speaker 1: producers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, 850 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,319 Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 851 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:06,719 Speaker 1: your way.