1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, we recently did a couple of episodes that 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: related to Irish mythology. And as we were looking through 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: these various accounts of various heroes and monsters and tales 7 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: too often to dan and and so forth, UM, I 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: was reminded again of of a motif that I remember 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: coming up briefly, at least when we were looking at 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: the hero Cocolin, and that is um, Irish heroes that 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: are depicted as having either multiple pupils or multiple irises 12 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: within their eyes. That is a strange detail, especially because 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: I can picture multiple pupils, I have a harder time 14 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: picturing multiple irises. So, of course, basic anatomical note, the 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: pupil is the black dot in the middle of your eye, 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: and the iris is the colored ring around that dot. 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: So multiple pupils I'm seeing, Okay, multiple dots, multiple irises. 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that that just what like, how would 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: you tell where one iris began or ended? Well, I 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: guess you'd have to have like multiple irises and pupils 21 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: in that department, and and is we'll get into. One 22 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: of the things is that some of these accounts will 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: say pupils and other versions of that same account will 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: say irises. So you know, I'm not I'm not sure 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: exactly how uh you know, the term maybe gets confused 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: over time or it's lost in translation. Um so, but 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: it kind of adds to the mystery of of not 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: being exactly sure what we're talking about here when these 29 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: details come up. Well, so, how did these details go? 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: Like what's an example? Okay, so, um taking for example, 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Coucolon since we've we've just got to him before. The 32 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: The Irish hero a warrior hero, a demi god uh, 33 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: possessed by the ability to enter the warped spasm during battle. 34 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: Lots of wonderful tales and about this character, and he's 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: he's prominently featured in the early Irish epic The Cattle 36 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: Raid of Coolie or the Tane as it goes sometimes called. 37 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: But one of the other you know, interesting facts about 38 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: this hero is that he's sometimes described as having seven irises, 39 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: as translated from the epic by Joseph Dunn's I believe 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen translation quote seven jewels of the eyes brilliance 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: was either of his keenly eyes, seven toes to either 42 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: of his two feet, seven fingers to either of his 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: two hands, with the clutch of hawk's claw, with the 44 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: grip of hedgehog's talent in every separate one of them. 45 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: I love how that's all majestic and fierce until you 46 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: get to the hedgehog. I don't know. Hedgehog's talent sounds 47 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: pretty the intense to me, even if I can't quite 48 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: picture what that would be. Maybe I don't have enough 49 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: experience with hedgehogs though. I Also this struck me because 50 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: I love stories where beings have a strange, recurring, specific 51 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: number of body features. It reminds me of visions in 52 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: the Bible, like particularly the visions of the Dragon and 53 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: the Beast in the Book of Revelation. And if you're 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: not familiar, the Book of Revelation is is the last 55 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: book in the Christian New Testament. It is mostly describing 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: a vision that the author, someone named John says was 57 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: given to him by Christ. And it's a book where 58 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the number seven has great significance. It's used in a 59 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: number of ways throughout the apocalypse, there are messages sent 60 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: to seven church congregations there and then within the vision, 61 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: seven seals are opened, seven trumpets are sounded, and so forth. 62 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: But they're also these wondrous beings, both great and terrible, 63 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: with seven of something. So, for example, in chapter twelve, 64 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: verse three, it says, and there appeared another wonder in heaven, 65 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and 66 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: tin horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Uh. And 67 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: I always wondered if that meant okay, So he's got 68 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: seven heads and then seven crowns on his heads, but 69 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: does that mean seven crowns per head or just one 70 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: crown per head? I'm not sure. One of the seven 71 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: heads is wearing seven crowns, staff and top for each 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: other that had a real dick. They fight over the crowns. 73 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: But then later also the beast is said to have 74 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: seven heads and tin horns quote end upon his horns 75 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: tin crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 76 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: And so I like these these specific numbers. It's not 77 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: just like, oh, this beast has two heads. It's got 78 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: seven heads. And of course, in Jewish and Christian traditions, 79 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: seven is a very significant number. It's a holy number 80 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: and one that most of the time seems to be 81 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: associated with wholeness or completion or fulfillment. You know, God 82 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: rested on the seventh day in the creation story, after 83 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: creating Earth in six days, rested on the seventh, So 84 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: it's sort of like the finishing of a of a 85 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: good and wholesome cycle of something. Uh. Though, I guess 86 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: in this case it's interesting because this is a sort 87 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: of unholy seven. It's the opposite of God. And there 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: are other beings in Jewish literature described with various specific 89 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: numbers of features. For example, there is a vision described 90 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: in the Book of Isaiah where the prophet sees the 91 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: Lord sitting upon a throne and he's surrounded by angels 92 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: called seraphim, which literally means the burning ones. And the 93 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: Seraphim are said to each have six wings, and there's 94 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: a reason given for this. In the vision, the wings 95 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: are each doing something, so Isaiah says that with two 96 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: of the wings he covered his face, with two of 97 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: them he covered his feet, and with the other two 98 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: he did fly. Though I wonder if the number six 99 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: is also showing a different significance in that these beings 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: are sort of the second highest beings in the heavenly 101 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: hierarchy without being on the level of God himself. So 102 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: seven is holy perfection and fulfillment. Six is one level 103 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: under that. Oh wow. So first of all, I love 104 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: how this actually is finding way to tie back to 105 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: our recent episodes on the days of the week. Uh, 106 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, the seven day week, and yeah, all these 107 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: there's something about examples like this where we're dealing with 108 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, literary motifs and symbolism and you know, mythic beings. 109 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: But we take these non biological numbers and though they 110 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: sort of bleed through their imagined bodies and and we 111 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: instantly enter this zone of of of just of fantasy 112 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: and in myth um. You know, it's the it's the 113 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: sort of thing that I think, you know, today we 114 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: would we would classify this sort of thing is like 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: you know, visionary art or you know, some sort of 116 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: a psychedelic notion um. But but clearly we've you know, 117 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: we've been dreaming of these these things throughout human history. 118 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, and you're right to note that seven 119 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: is not a very biological number. Yeah, I mean, usually 120 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: in animals with bilateral symmetry, there tend to be even 121 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: numbers of things. There are some interesting exceptions, but that's 122 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: that's most most often the case. We'll get to one 123 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: exception within the human body later on that that I like, 124 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, so is so. I don't know exactly why 125 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: you'd get these myths later on of like say, yeah, hero, 126 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: who's got seven irises in his eye or seven pupils 127 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: in his eye? But I would be surprised if it isn't, 128 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: if it isn't part of a tradition, if it isn't 129 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: all downstream from this ancient line of thinking that says, hey, 130 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, this monster doesn't just have two heads. It 131 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: has seven heads. And not only does it have seven heads, 132 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: the fact that it has seven heads means something. This 133 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: is like the ultimate bad monster because there's seven of it. 134 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: Seven is kind of like a siren. It means whenever 135 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: there's seven or of something, it's it's incredibly meaningful. It's 136 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: intensely significant. And with with with Collin's it's it's really 137 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: hard for me to to picture it, like I guess 138 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: I end up picturing like this just sort of ring 139 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: of pupils um and then when I try and picture 140 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: seven irises in there. It doesn't really come together for me. Uh. 141 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: Here a couple of other translations. Um Thomas Kinsella Translations 142 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: says seven hard heroic jewels are set in the iris 143 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: of Colan's eye and then done, also translating another section 144 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: of the work. Here from a poem prophecy quote seven 145 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: gyms of champions, brave deck the center of his orbs. 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: Naked are the spears he bears, and he hooks a 147 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: red cloak round. And I've seen the Yeah, I've seen 148 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: these described as as pupils as irises, and there's a 149 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: there's one version that reads, quote there were seven pupils 150 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: and k Colin's royal eye and two of these pupils 151 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: were squinting. The pupils were squinting, yes, And um, yeah, 152 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: this this is another area where I haven't found I 153 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: haven't found much to really you know, break down what 154 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: this means. And and that that just makes it more enticing, 155 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: Like what what to imagine looking into this, uh, this 156 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: hero's eyes and then like first of all, they're like 157 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: seven pupils in there, and then and then to make 158 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: things even weirder, to make that moment even weirder, two 159 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: of them are squinting. A two of the pupils are squinting. 160 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: But pupil I mean, so pupils do, of course contract. 161 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that as we go on. That's one 162 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: of their main anatomical functions. But I don't think that's 163 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: usually what people mean with the words squinting. With squinting, 164 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: I think of squeezing of like the muscles around the 165 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: orbital you know, your face. Yeah, that was We'll discuss um. 166 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: Pupils do weird things. Uh so, so maybe by the 167 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: time we roll through some examples from the the animal world, 168 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: we'll have a better idea of what this could conceivably 169 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: look like. But cal Colin is not the only character 170 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: in Irish tradition who has has mysterious eyes. Uh There's 171 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: also a character by the name of fedom Or. I 172 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: think the modern version of this is Fidelma. And this 173 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: is she. She's a member of the two Offended don 174 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: and she's a prophet, a poet. She's mentioned in the 175 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: Ulster cycle, and I've also read that she Some um 176 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: critics and historians think that she may be connected to 177 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: later traditions of the Banshee um, which again, the Banshee 178 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: one of its whole things is that it is it 179 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: haunts a place, It wales in anticipation of death. So 180 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: it is it is, in its own way, a profit, 181 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: the profit of of one particular thing. She appears in 182 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: the Tane as well. And she has described as having 183 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: three irises in each eye, triple irises. Uh, and she 184 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: this is. This gets really interesting because she's described at length, 185 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: and I'm just going to read a part of it, 186 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: translated by Donne quote weaving lace was she, And in 187 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: her right hand was a bordering rod of silvered bronze, 188 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: with its seven strips of red gold at the sides, 189 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: A mini spotted green man toll around her, a bulging, 190 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: strong headed pin of gold in the mantle over her bosom, 191 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: a hooded tunic with red interweaving about her. A ruddy, 192 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: fair faced countenance. She had narrow below and broad above. 193 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: She had a blue, gray and laughing eye. Each eye 194 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: had three pupils. Dark and black were her eyebrows, The 195 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: soft black lashes threw a shadow to the middle of 196 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: her cheeks. Red and thin were her lips. Shiny and 197 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: pearly were her teeth. Thou wouldst believe they were showers 198 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: of white pearls that had rained into her head. And 199 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: I have to say, I love how I mean, it's 200 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: all beautiful, but the three pupils in the eye just 201 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: gets like this brief description. But then the author is like, 202 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: and let me tell you about her teeth. Right, yeah, 203 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: I had the same reaction. So then again, I'm thinking 204 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: about the historical setting from which this story would have emerged, 205 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: and maybe at that time seeing somebody with really clean 206 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: teeth was even more rare than I with three pupils. 207 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: So um, so okay, So we already have a couple 208 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: of examples here cocullen um and we have we also 209 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: have Fedom here, and Fedom Fedom is very much a 210 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: seer and she has eyes of prophecy. So it's easy 211 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: to to see where one interpretation here is that her 212 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: eyes are unnatural because she has unnatural vision she can 213 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: see into the future. Makes sense right, sure, But as 214 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: as several different commentators have pointed out, this is what 215 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: this is. Another level where it got even more interesting 216 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: is that commentators have pointed out that, um, these are 217 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: also signs of beauty. So think to this passage I 218 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: just read, so, uh you know, yes, again, she is 219 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: a seer, but she's described as as being as not 220 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: being beautiful but possessed with weird eyes. Her triple pupils 221 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 1: or iris eyes are listed as part of her beauty 222 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: um though you know undeniably this connects to her attributed 223 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: powers as well, so it's listed along other along other 224 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: things like having long, lustrous eyelashes and pearly teeth, things 225 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: that in a lot of other literature would be just 226 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: clear markers that are supposed to mean beauty. And here 227 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: it's also like and three people died. That is one 228 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: of those things, right, we all know that thing. Yeah, yeah, 229 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: And this is this is I think something that makes 230 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: it so fascinating to read as a modern uh reader 231 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: of the text because obviously, if you had, you know, 232 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: a modern work of fiction that was referring to a 233 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: character like this, everything would go in reverse, right, you 234 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: would have all that you would say, oh, she was beautiful, 235 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: and she looked totally human, a beautiful human, except woe 236 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: those eyes, three pupils in each one. It was a 237 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: bit weird. So one of the sources that I was 238 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: looking at about this is Jacqueline Boors the Evil Eye 239 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: in early Irish literature and Law two thousand three published 240 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: in Um Celtica twenty four. It provides a lot of 241 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: of insight into the literary mote of the eye in 242 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: Irish literature. Uh. So she brings up, first of all, 243 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: a different creature with a unique eye, and that is 244 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: the one eyed giant Ngsil Case or eng Sol the Terrible, 245 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: who is described as this great giant, uh something of 246 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: a pirate I think with possible like English origins of 247 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: the time. So you know, into the in this wee 248 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: get like the idea that maybe if there is some 249 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: sort of historical basis for this figure, maybe he was 250 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: just some sort of a pirate rater from that region. 251 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: But in the mythic connotation he becomes this, this this 252 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: great big giant who not only has just this single 253 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: eye in his head. He's not only a cyclops, but 254 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: it is a solid black eye. And that solid black 255 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: eye has seven pupils within it. Uh though I've also 256 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: read descriptions where he just has three pupils. How would 257 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: it have pupils if it's solid. The pupil is the 258 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: black part of the eye. So that's thoroughly confusing. Yes, 259 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: So he's known for the destruction of Daderga hostel. Uh, 260 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: there's a whole story about this. And so the author 261 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: here is discussing ng Soul's I and she connects it 262 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: not only with Colin, but also with the High King 263 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: of Ireland, Cormac McCart who is also said to have 264 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: had seven pupils in each eye. Um, she's so again, 265 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: it's just driving home that this is a recurring motif. 266 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: It's not like a one time thing that you know it. 267 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: It clearly meant something and was worth repeating in the Cannon. 268 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: But but she points out that, uh, you know, in 269 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: the cases of these two heroes, quote, this is explicitly 270 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: qualified as a sign of beauty. And furthermore, she says 271 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: that the squinting ink Collin's pupils is also seen as 272 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: adornment rather than disfigurement. And then she also comes back 273 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: to Fedom, the female seer of the Tuath, to Donnan 274 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: and says, quote, there is no explanation offered of this 275 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: characteristic the triple I with with fedelm. It could be 276 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: a sign of beauty and it could be a sign 277 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: of her supernatural site. The latter is more probable because 278 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,239 Speaker 1: the characteristic is separated from the description of her looks 279 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: by the mention of the weaver's beam, the weaver's beam 280 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: has been interpreted as a supernatural tool for prophecy. The 281 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: triple pupils could therefore very well be a symbol of 282 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: her clear of lance. And yeah, so I'm not if 283 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken here the weaver's beam, this is part 284 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: of a loom. Uh, And so we're getting into the 285 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: idea that like here, this, this piece of technology also 286 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: had mystical connotations for divination. Alright, what about ing Sol though, 287 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: the giant or pirate who has a single eye which 288 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: is entirely black and also has either three or seven 289 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: pupils in it. Well, she she's She says that, Okay, 290 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna look at these other examples and try and 291 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: figure out eng Sole will say, first of all, he's 292 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: definitely not beautiful. This is not a sign of his beauty. 293 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: He's a rough and horrible monster. She she know. She 294 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: points out some of the terms that are used to 295 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: describe him. But his sight is described as being sharp. 296 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: He can make out every detail of the hostile at 297 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: a glance. And Boor says that he also might connect 298 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: to the legendary evil eye of Balor the king of 299 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: the Fomorians, whose great eye when opened and when his 300 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: great brow could be raised up in some accounts, two 301 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: warriors have to stand on either side of him. Put 302 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: a woman wouldn't beam beneath his big, saggy brow and 303 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: lift the brow up so that the evil eye can 304 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: see out an unleashed destruction on the battlefield. Um, it 305 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: could be connected to that ballor by the way, is 306 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: eventually killed by his grandson Lug of the Tifata done 307 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: and and there are multiple versions of the battor myth 308 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: as well. Sometimes his destructive eye is described, you know, 309 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: more or less like the single single eye of a cyclops, 310 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: and other times it's depicted as more of a third 311 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: eye in the center of the head alongside two ordinary eyes. 312 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: So there's just a taste of the triple or sevenfold 313 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: eye in uh in in Irish mythology and again and 314 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: having you know, research to the bed and and and 315 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: laid it out in the in the outline here, it's 316 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: still just overwhelmingly mysterious and on inspiring to me. And 317 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: uh we're gonna come back to some other traditions, some 318 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: other ancient writings that refer to mysterious eyes of this nature. 319 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: But at this point we're gonna we're gonna shift into 320 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: the scientific world and and hopefully this will be a 321 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: fun case where the science and the myth will sort 322 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: of play off each other and each one will make 323 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: the other more fabulous than Alright, well, since we're talking 324 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: about eyes, I think we do need to do a 325 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: quick overview of eyeball anatomy. So picture and eyeball, Robert, 326 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: you doing it? Can you can see that eyeball in 327 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: your mind's eye burning like the eye of sorrow. Okay, well, 328 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: that actually connects to something, because the eye of Saron 329 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: you picture that that that's not just floating out in space, right, 330 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: it's sitting in a tower, that's right. And so of 331 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: course our eyeballs needs some some structural scaff holding as well. 332 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: So the eyeball of humans, it's within a bony socket 333 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: called the orbit, and the outer layer of the eyeball 334 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: itself is a tough white tissue made of collagen that's 335 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: called the sclera. This this is the white part of 336 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: the eye that you can see. And then the pupil, 337 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: of course, is the black dot in the middle of 338 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: the eye, covering the pupil on the outside is a 339 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: clear layer of cells known as the cornea, which both 340 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: protects the eye. It protects the the iris and the pupil, 341 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: and it also helps to focus incoming light into the pupil. Actually, 342 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: there are two parts of your eyes that do focusing 343 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: of light rays. The cornea does the majority of it. 344 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: I think it does about two thirds of the focusing. 345 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: And that's the first layer. And actually, if you've listened 346 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: to our episodes on tiers that we did I think 347 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, you know there's something even 348 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: to the outside of the cornea, which is that thin 349 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: layer of tier film that covers the eye. It's secreted 350 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: by the lachrymal glands. Actually has multiple parts that the 351 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 1: the watery part of the tier film is secreted by 352 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: the lacrym mole glands, and then there's an oily part 353 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: of the tier film that comes from the base of 354 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: the eyelids. Now coming to the pupil. While it's tempting 355 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: to think of the pupil as a thing, the interesting 356 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: truth is that the pupil is really an absence. The 357 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: pupil is the whole or the opening through which light passes. 358 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: So light comes through the cornea and then is directed 359 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: through the pupil, and then is focused again a second 360 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: time after the cornea by a clear structure on the 361 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: inside of the eye, the inside of the pupil that's 362 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: called the lens. And then finally, after it is focused 363 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: through the lens, the light is reflected onto the layer 364 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: of sensitive cells on the back of the inside of 365 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: the eye known as the retina, and then the sensing 366 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: cells of the retina transmit the information about the light 367 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: via the optic nerve all the way to the visual 368 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: cortex in the back of the brain, where the information 369 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: is made sense of in a way that we experience 370 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: as sight. So I think what we should say is 371 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: that sight happens in the brain, which is why there 372 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: are so many things that can that can affect what 373 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: we see when we look at the world. You know, 374 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: it's not just like a video camera feed. There's there's 375 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: some post processing that goes on that can be affected 376 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: by all kinds of things from uh, you know, from UH, 377 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: from biases and little little tricks of of how the 378 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: brain works, to drugs and so so. So sight happens 379 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: in the brain, but of course light has to go 380 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: through all these stages within the eye before it is 381 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: turned into the experience of vision in the visual cortex. 382 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: You know. I just think you were talking about how 383 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: about the pupil being an absence and not a thing, 384 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about, um, you know, the various 385 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: there's of course the Chinese story of the magic paint brush, 386 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: and I think there are different variations on this, but 387 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: there's one in which the paint brush, whatever you paint 388 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: with it comes to life, but only after you have 389 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: have added the eye. So I think perhaps that the 390 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: uh you know, adding the pupil uh slash iris of 391 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: the eye, because depending on the detail of your illustration, 392 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: like the people in the eye are just gonna be one, right, 393 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: Like if you're painting an eye, drawing an eye, you 394 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: create the white and then you put that black dot 395 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: in the middle to complete it, and it kind of 396 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: brings life to something. But on the other hand, I 397 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: think to the world of of miniature painting and off there. 398 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: If if anyone's never seen this, you should look it 399 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: up because it can be hilarious. Um. When people are 400 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: just figuring out what they're doing with miniatures, they'll often 401 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: want to complete like this, you know, we're talking like 402 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: a small scale uh um, you know, soldier or something, 403 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: and they'll want to put eyes on it, so they'll 404 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: create the white dots and then they'll go to throw 405 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: those little black dots in there as well. Often with 406 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: just hilarious results. You'll end up with just the completely 407 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: ridiculous googly eyes that that are you know, look too 408 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: big for the head, and one eyes put looking off 409 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: in one direction and the other in another direction. Um, 410 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: but we have that compulsion. Were like, we it's not 411 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: real until I add you know, the pupil iris. We 412 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: can't just have white there, we can't just have dark there. 413 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: We have to have both. Well, yeah, I think there 414 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: is actually a strong biological reason why why having both 415 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: is very important to us. You know, we've looked at 416 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: research before on how humans are very sensitive to noticing 417 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: gays direction in other humans, to monitoring the movement of 418 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: other people's eyes to understand where they're looking. That is 419 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: very socially relevant information and we keep close tabs on 420 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: it even when you don't notice you're doing it. Yeah. 421 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: So if you're just see a representation of a human 422 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: and and they like don't have pupils in their eyes, 423 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: this is very disturbing because it's like, well, I can't 424 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: tell where they're looking and that you know that that 425 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: doesn't feel good at all. And this is probably why 426 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: you know it's it's very popular in films and TV shows. 427 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: If you need a character to have a very very 428 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: other worldly air to them, just simply give them completely 429 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: black eyes or completely wide eyes and uh and you 430 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: know they'll have this angelic or dem on a hair 431 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: about them. Oh yeah, absolutely. The one thing I do 432 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: want to come back to when I said that the 433 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: pupils are an absence and I said not a thing. 434 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, it depends on what you mean 435 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: by thing, but I mean, you know there they are 436 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: the pinhole in a pinhole camera. Without the whole, the 437 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: pinhole camera doesn't work. So they're very important. You've got 438 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: to have them. But what they are is an opening. Yeah, 439 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: there's another weird thing. You ever think about the fact 440 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: that your eye has muscles. I don't know, maybe this 441 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: is one that everybody else is just fully metabolized and 442 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: it's sitting with them just fine. But thinking about my 443 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: eye muscles makes me a little woozy. But obviously it's true. 444 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: I mean, in fact, your eye has multiple levels of muscles, 445 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: and here's we're gonna come back to uh creatures with 446 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: seven of something, So arranged around the back of each 447 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: of your eyes on the attached to the sclera, there 448 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: are seven muscles is the extraocular muscles, and these are 449 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: muscles that move the eyeballs into some degree the eyelids 450 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: as well, certainly the superior eyelids. So when you look 451 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: up down side to side up at an angle, when 452 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: you're trying to remember something, you're flexing these muscles. Do 453 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: you think Colin had seven of days or did he 454 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: have forty nine muscles under balls? Wait? Did he have 455 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: different eyes or I know, I mean I think he 456 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: only had two eyeballs. He just said seven irises or 457 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: eye So these are apportioned according to eyeballs, not pupils 458 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: and irises. Didn't know how how deep into his anatomy 459 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: the numerology went. But to get even weirder, there are 460 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: also muscles within the eye. There are muscles in your 461 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: eyes responsible for changing the diameter of the pupil of 462 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: that opening. So remember the pupil is basically a hole 463 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: in the function of the pupil is to allow light 464 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: to pass through the lens and onto the retina, and 465 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: the eye has to adjust the size of the hole 466 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: to help control light exposure and to focus the image. 467 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: A very easy example to see for yourself. Everybody probably 468 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: did this in elementary school at some point, but if 469 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: you never did, check it out sometime watch your pupils 470 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: in a mirror. When you're turning the lights in the 471 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: room on and off. Your pupil will dilate in a 472 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: dark room to allow more light in, to become more 473 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 1: sensitive to less data, and when the light comes on, 474 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: the people will contract to allow less light in. Now, 475 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: I was reading about what function the people serves because 476 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: I think the expansion and contraction of the people is 477 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: not only for controlling for the amount of light in 478 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,239 Speaker 1: the environment, and I think it also helps control uh 479 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: focus of the image that you're trying to to turn 480 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: your gaze onto. So I was reading about this in 481 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: a paper by Sebastian Methote called pupil lometry, Psychology, Physiology 482 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: and Function in the Journal of Cognition and Mythote writes quote, 483 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: Although people responses likely serve many functions, not all of 484 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: which are fully understood, one important function is to optimize vision. 485 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: Either for acuity, small pupils see sharper and depth of 486 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: field small pupil will see sharply at a wider range 487 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: of distances. Or for sensitivity, large peopils are better able 488 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: to detect faint stimuli. And then finally says that that is, 489 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: pupils change their size to optimize vision for a particular situation. Uh. 490 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: And probably all of these are familiar to people who 491 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: have ever had to work the aperture of of a 492 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: film camera, because you manipulate the aperture not just to 493 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: respond to different light conditions and to avoid overexposing or 494 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: under exposing, but you also do it in order to 495 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: control things like depth of field, like do you want, 496 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, things that are both close and far away 497 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: in sharp focus, or only what's up close in focus 498 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: and so forth. But to come back to those muscles 499 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: within the eye, what causes the expansion or contraction of 500 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 1: the pupil is actually the set of muscles within the iris. 501 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: This is what your iris is for. And so here's 502 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: a wonderful anatomy fact that everyone should know. When you 503 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: hear a good love song or a poem about eye color, 504 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: you know, my love, how how I long to gaze 505 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: into your big brown eyes. The singer is technically longing 506 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: to gaze into two sphincters. What certainly makes you rethink 507 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl, that right? Yes? Uh, speaking 508 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: of which Irish singer, why why not? Why brown eyes? 509 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: Instead of triple or seven pupil dies missed opportunity? Brown 510 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: Eyed Girl is a song all about the appreciation of beautiful, 511 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: glassy sphincters glinting in the sun. Okay, So the iris 512 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: is composed of two types of muscle. Uh, You've got 513 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: the dilator muscles, and these are long muscle fibers. Uh, 514 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, relatively long within the eye. At least that 515 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: caused the people to expand when they contract, So you 516 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: can kind of think of muscles like pulling and opening 517 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: wider by by pulling at its edges. And then the 518 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: second type within the iris is the sphincter muscle. This 519 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: is a ring of muscle tissue around the inner edge 520 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: of the iris that shrinks the pupil when it contracts. 521 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: And so the term sphincter is of course most famous 522 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: for referring to the muscle that controls the anus, but 523 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: it actually just means any ring of muscle that works 524 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: to open and close a tube in in an animal body. 525 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: So you actually have multiple sphincters throughout your body, not 526 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: just in the anus, not just in the anus and 527 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: the irises, but also internally controlling the openings of the stomach. 528 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: By the way, we do have what at least a 529 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: couple of episodes about the evolution of the anus that 530 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: we did a few years back. So if anyone is 531 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: interested in more information on that, uh, then I send 532 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: you to the vault to seek those episodes out. Oh yeah, 533 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: I recall that being great fun. But but but I 534 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: wanted to say, believe it or not, this tidbit about 535 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: sphincters is, uh, the sphincters of the eyes is not 536 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: just an amusing digression. This will actually play into what 537 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: I'm about to talk about, which is an extremely rare 538 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: medical condition in which human beings do sometimes have multiple 539 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: pupils in the same and this is a condition known 540 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: as polychoria. So it's very very rare, but multiple pupils 541 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: per ide does exist in the real world. And so 542 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: as a source on this, I was looking at a 543 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: book called The Handbook of Pediatric neuro Ophthalmology published by 544 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: Springer in two thousand six by Kenneth W. Wright, Peter A. H. Spiegel, 545 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: and Lisa S. Thompson. According to the authors here, there 546 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: are actually two different conditions known as polychoria, though both 547 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: are referring to conditions where there is more than one 548 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: opening in the iris. They say these additional openings tend 549 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: to be due to what they call local hypoplasia of 550 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: the iris stroma and the pigment epithelium. So these are 551 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: the layers of tissue within the iris. Uh the iris 552 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: stroma is the bigger middle layer and the pigment epithelium 553 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: is a layer that is what gives eyes their color, 554 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: the pigment on the back of the irises and so 555 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: hypoplasia within those tissues would mean a lack of cells 556 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: or an incomplete formation of the cells within those tissues. Now, 557 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: regarding the two varieties of this condition, there is true polychoria, 558 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: in which there is more than one pupil and they 559 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: each have their own iris sphincter muscle with the ability 560 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: to contract. Then there is false polychoria or pseudo polychoria, 561 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: in which there are multiple openings in the iris, but 562 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: only one has the sphincter muscle so the sphincter muscle 563 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: is what makes the difference. The having the sphincters around 564 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: your extra pupils is what makes it true polychoria. Both 565 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: conditions are rare, but true polychoria is much more rare. 566 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: They write that in almost all clinical situations the correct 567 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: diagnosis is pseudo polychoria, and given how rare polychoria is, 568 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to be a ton of accessible medical 569 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: literature on it. Most of what I did find was 570 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: pretty old. I found one report from recent years, and 571 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: this was an article publish in Jamma Optimology from by 572 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: Antoine Safie and Shalenburg and Aki Kawasaki called poly Choria 573 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: and a Young Girl. This was a case report of 574 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: a nine year old girl in good health who was 575 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: in for a regular check up with her doctor when 576 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: the doctor noticed that she had two pupils in her 577 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: left eye, one regular sized pupil in the middle and 578 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: then another much smaller hole in the iris just the 579 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: side of the primary robb. I've attached a picture for 580 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: you to look at here, but this case was one 581 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: of the extremely rare documented cases of true polychoria, because 582 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: both pupils in the same eye would contract simultaneously when 583 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: exposed to light, meaning they both had functional sphincter muscles 584 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: surrounding them. And one of the proposed causes of true 585 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: polychoria is what the authors call quote a sneering or 586 00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: pinching off from the margin of another pupil, and that 587 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: would seem to make sense of why there would be 588 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: a sphincter muscles surrounding it. So if you picture the 589 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: pupil surrounded by this ring of sphincter muscle, and then 590 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: you picture part of that pupil by just uh, some 591 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: kind of quirk of how the cells are growing, part 592 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: of the people getting pinched off and separated from the 593 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,719 Speaker 1: other one, like the irish cells around it kind of 594 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: just come together and grow together and pinch off part 595 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: of it that would still it would still be surrounded 596 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: by those sphincter muscle cells. By the way, and a 597 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: lot of times we'll say, definitely go do an image 598 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: search so you can see what we're talking about here. 599 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: I have to advise if you're doing a search for polychoria, 600 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: you will invariably turn up some actual images, but also 601 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: a lot of doctored images and like clickbait images. Uh 602 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: that that that don't represent anything that's actually happening, uh 603 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,719 Speaker 1: in in the in real biological world. If you definitely 604 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: want to see a real photo, you can look up 605 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: the article I just mentioned again that was in jam 606 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: optomology called polychoria in a young Girl. It just as 607 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: close ups of the pupils and you can see them 608 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, these images are quite impressive, though, of 609 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: course I have to say that anytime you have a 610 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: close up image of the inner workings of an eyeball um, 611 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: you're getting into weird territory because he quickly becomes this 612 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: strange alien world than now you might be tempted to wonder, 613 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: whoa if somebody has two pupils in the same eye, 614 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: how does that affect vision? Like do they see two 615 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: images out of that eye or something? And the answer 616 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: to that is no, because what's what's creating the what's 617 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: sending the light data back to your visual cortex is 618 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: the retina. So what tends to result from polychoria is 619 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: usually just some impairment of vision in that eye. But 620 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't tend to, at least as far as I've read, 621 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: create any extravagant unusual effects. More likely, if it has 622 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: a vacs on vision. It's probably just some uh, some 623 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: reduction in the function of the eye or impairment of vision. 624 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean you kind of come back to the same 625 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: place where we've we've been here before, where you you 626 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: you talk about site uh, and it's something that we 627 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: know most of us take for granted. But then when 628 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: you start thinking about what's actually happening, you know that 629 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: you have these not one, but two different eyeballs functioning 630 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: and uh and then this data is then um, you know, 631 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: reassembled and created into this uh, stitched together into this 632 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,919 Speaker 1: the simulated model of the world inside our heads. Uh. 633 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty crazy. Well yeah, and especially because as 634 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: we said earlier, you know, vision happens in the brain. 635 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: It just makes use of data gathered with the eyes, 636 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: so the brain can actually do a lot of compensating, adapting, 637 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: and adjusting based on what's going on in the first 638 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: part of the process. Right. It also reminds me of 639 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: talking to David Eagleman. You know, one of the things 640 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: he points out is that we're basically Mr potato Heads 641 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: and the more sensory tools that you plug into the brain, 642 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: like it's just going to be integrated into the model 643 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 1: so you know, it's like one eyeball, two eyeballs. Um, 644 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: if you if you were to add additional eyeballs or 645 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: additional things, that's that that fed in additional data like 646 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: that would be consolidated into the whole. Yeah, he's pretty 647 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: from what I understand, he's pretty bullish on plasticity, right, 648 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: And I guess there are differences of opinion among experts 649 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: on this, like how adaptable is the adult brain, how 650 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: many types of new sensory information could a brain make 651 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: use of? But yeah, I think he's more on the 652 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 1: end of like we we would be shocked how much 653 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: the brain can adapt to, right. Yeah. But then again, 654 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: just coming back to the idea that, yeah, your vision 655 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: is not the thing your eye does. Your vision is 656 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: the thing your brain does using the eyes, right. All right, 657 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: So we're gonna be back in the next episode. We're 658 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: gonna have more ancient ideas about multi lobed eyes. We're 659 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: gonna have We're gonna we have some more science at 660 00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: this time from the animal world and some of this 661 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,399 Speaker 1: strange pupils going on out there. Um. I did want 662 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: to mention though, briefly, that yeah, you do have some 663 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: some pretty neat pop culture examples of multi pupil, multi 664 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: irist eyes. Um, I was trying to think of think 665 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: of them. I feel like the ones that came to 666 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: mind or are all kind of loosely connected to each other, 667 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: or they all feel like they're very much within the 668 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: same sort of genre of sort of weird horror themed 669 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: visionary art. I was like, Rob, is it going to 670 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: be Tool? Yeah, well it has to be Tool, right, 671 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: So like and because I guess these were probably my 672 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: first exposures to this kind of of imagery, even though 673 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: again it's it's you know, it's clearly been around with 674 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: us for a very long time. But there's the Adam 675 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: Jones of Tool. His art for the The ep Opiate 676 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: features something like, you know, eyes with multiple pupils and 677 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: or eyes undergoing mitosis or their figure eight pupils. It's 678 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: you know, hard to figure out exactly what's happening in 679 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: a stationary image. There's also the cam de Leon album 680 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 1: art Ocular Orifice for Tool album Onema, featuring an eye 681 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: with two or more irises and pupils, And that's one 682 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: that I believe is is animated as well, so it 683 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: gets this, you get this idea of the eye turning. 684 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: Was that an album that had some release where you'd 685 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: like turn it in the light and it would move. Yeah, yeah, 686 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: you can. Yeah, some of the images could be placed 687 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: so that they're you know, they're looking out the front 688 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: of the CD case and it creates this this this movement, 689 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 1: uh really masters of the physical release, the horror movie 690 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: you talked about with the VHS box with the light 691 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: up eyes. Yeah, yeah, they're very very much And and 692 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: then I mean they're still putting out albums with that 693 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: kind of gimmick rick, which which I love. Um. Now, 694 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: a film that comes to mind, there's John Carpenter's in 695 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: the Mouth of Madness, which I know you you saw 696 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: in the last few years. Anyway, there's a scene in 697 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: which a deranged killer, uh like you know, crashes through 698 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: the the store for unt this cafe front with an 699 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: axe and then you get a close up of his 700 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: eyes and he seems to have they're either like conjoined 701 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: irises or perhaps irises that are undergoing mitosis, that are 702 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: coming together or splitting apart, or something is going on there, 703 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: and it's like a super creepy moment. And then he 704 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,439 Speaker 1: starts talking about Cutter Kane um and then of course course, 705 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: you know that's a film that's often talked about in 706 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: terms of the lovecrafty and influences. There's a great madness 707 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: line at the end of HP Lovecraft's story The Haunter 708 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: of the Dark that reads, I see it coming here, 709 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: hell Win, Titan Blur, black wings, yog So thought save me, 710 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: the three lobed burning I I mean, frankly, after all 711 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: this talk of seven lobed burning eyes, I feel like 712 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: that's what the same is not that impressive. I can 713 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: easily imagine the three lobe burning, seven lobed Yeah, that's 714 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: too mad to even right about. Yog So thought arrives 715 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: on Earth after millions of years is like I have 716 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: come to conquer runs into Kucullen colins, like I have 717 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,879 Speaker 1: so many more irises than you. And that's right, Yeah, 718 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: I have a cocolin could could totally WHIPIOK, sotha, no, no, 719 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: no question about it. All right, Well, we're gonna go 720 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: and close it out there, but we will be back Thursday. 721 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,280 Speaker 1: There'll be more um I related wonder, more I related science, 722 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: So tune in. Uh. In the meantime, we'd love to 723 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: hear from everyone, though. If you have thoughts about this episode, 724 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: if you have thoughts about Irish mythology, um, other tales 725 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: and involve um multiple pupils or multiple irises in the 726 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: same eye. Like I said, we're gonna mention some in 727 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: the next episode, but it's very likely. I mean, it's it's, 728 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: it's it's I'm definitely missing something. There's there's some sort 729 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: of detail from some other folklore, mythology or certainly pop culture, 730 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: and we would love to hear about any of those examples. 731 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: So right in and let us know. Um those episodes. 732 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 1: Of course, core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind 733 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesday we do 734 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: a short form artifact or monster fact. On Monday we 735 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: do listener mail, and on Friday we do Weird How Cinema. 736 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: That's our time to set aside most serious matters and 737 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: just discuss a strange film. Huge thanks as always to 738 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would 739 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: like to get in touch with us with feedback on 740 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for 741 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: the future, or just to say hello, you can email 742 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: us at contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 743 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I heart Radio. 744 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My heart Radio, visit the i 745 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you're listening to 746 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.