WEBVTT - Bloomberg Technology: TikTok Latest, Tech Deals 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:05.320 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:10.880 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:12.360 Caroline Hyde and. 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:28.720 Ed Louvelow live from New York. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.360 This is Bloomberg Technology. We are getting straight to our 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:32.000 top story. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:32.800 Out of Washington. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.080 TikTok is at the US Supreme Court fighting for its future. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:38.320 Justices are hearing. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.639 Arguments only nine days before a federal law is set 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.360 to ban TikTok in the United States if it isn't 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.640 sold by its Chinese parent company. Bloemberg's Tyder Kendall standing 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.400 by at the court and remind us Tyler, the key 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.600 questions for the court is it national security versus free speech? 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:53.800 Here? 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.480 Yeah, hey, Caroline or all arguments here at the Supreme 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.920 Court now just reaching about their one hour mark. Lawyers 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.080 for TikTok started their opening arguments by saying that this 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.119 is a First Amendment issue, arguing that if that band 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.119 does go into place, it could potentially curtail the freedom 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.160 of expression of it's more than one hundred and seventy 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.920 million US based users. The lawyer for TikTok, arguing today, 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.160 Noel Francisco, also added that the timeline for the ban 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.200 is unrealistic and quote very difficult, asking the Court at 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.200 the very least to delay the ban going into place. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:26.399 Now. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.080 On the other side of this is what you mentioned, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.040 the national security concerns. In a brief submitted to the 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.160 Supreme Court today ahead of today's arguments, the US federal 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.440 government says this is not about freedom of speech, since 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:38.959 there is still a viable path on the table for 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.399 TikTok to operate if they divest. Rather, they're not trying 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.840 to restrict freedom of speech. They're trying to restrict what 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.600 they call foreign adversary holding, considering bite Dance's connections to 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.840 China and what that could mean to national security. Now, 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:54.720 that appears to be the thread that we're seeing the 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.080 support the Supreme Court justices pull on here, potentially expressing 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:03.200 some skepticism when it comes to TikTok's arguments. For example, Caroline, 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.960 the first question out of the gate from Justice Clarence 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.760 Thomas was whether or not TikTok was trying to convert 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.239 a potential restriction on byte Dance's ownership of TikTok into 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.400 a restriction onto the freedom of speech of TikTok and 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:17.000 its users. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.399 Tyler Kendall, We thank you so much. 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.200 And look, just reading the tea leaves here shares of 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.840 snap Meta on the higher side. It doesn't seem as 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.600 though thus far the arguments are going in TikTok's favor, 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:29.639 as has been on our tea live blog on the 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.799 Bloomberg Frank McCord is with us to keep the conversation going. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.920 Executive chairman of the Court Global and founder of Project Liberty, 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.120 which just made a formal offer to acquire TikTok. You 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.120 call it the people's bid. Why is Project Liberty and 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.560 your consortium the right owners if indeed bite Dance says 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:47.520 it will divest. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.399 Yeah, Hi, Carolyn, how are you good? 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:50.359 Good? 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.760 It's I think we're the right buyers because we have 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.600 put all the pieces together. We have the funding, we've 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.880 worked through all the legal issues, We've put a formal offer, 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.720 as you point out, right in front of Biteden, so 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.160 they have something now to react to. And most importantly, 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.920 we have the clean American tech stack to move the 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.400 user base over to. And we don't need or want 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.760 the Chinese algorithm. And so I think that the algorithm 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.520 is something that China's very very beholden to and has 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.960 it said clearly that they're not going to be selling it. 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.560 We don't need it or want it, as I point out, 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.680 So I think we're particularly unique bidder and well positioned, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:29.880 and I think as a matter of fact, we have 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:30.919 the leading bidder right now. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.320 We were just seeing some of the share price reactions 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.560 of rivals out there. From your reading into what's happening 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.680 in Washington right now, does it look to be going 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:40.720 in the favor you'd want to see, because would you 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.040 actually like a delay to proceedings to be able to 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:43.800 go forward with a. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.960 Bit, Well, we'd like to buy us TikTok, that's what 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:49.600 we'd like to see as an end result, and move 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.320 the user base over to this clean American stack. And 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.360 I think that it's no surprise that the argument is 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.040 going well for the government because this is a real 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.000 national siksecurity issue, a strongly bipartisan piece of legislation that 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.840 was passed by Congress upheld by the appellate court. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:07.640 So I think the. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.480 Conventional wisdom is that the government's position will be upheld, 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.040 the legislation will will stay in effect, which means on 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.080 January nineteenth, Byte Dance has to decide are they going 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.520 to shut it down or sell, and in order to sell, 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.880 they need to enter into an agreement, which is why 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.279 we put a formal offer in front of them in 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:27.479 the last twenty four hours. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.240 What is the price tag of that formal offer. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.680 So what we've said to byte Dance is we're not 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.160 going to be talking about terms of the deal until 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.240 we get into a formal conversation with them. And we 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.599 want to be very very respectful of byte Dance because 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.040 it's a very sensitive time here. We know they're arguing 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.400 in front of the Supreme Court. We've given them space 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.200 to do that, and at the point in time where 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.839 we engage in an active negotiation, we'll be happy to 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.680 share details once we sort things with them. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.479 Have you spoken to any of the current investors in 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.560 byte Dance who are United States based, General Atlantic, Susquehanna. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.640 We also known that Sequoias involved KKR. There's a lot 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:07.039 of them. 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.160 Yeah, there are, and I believe we've spoken to all 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.960 of them and they've indicated an interest in rolling over 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.760 their investment. Why not, I mean, they don't want to 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.440 lose their entire investment in us TikTok. We've put a 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.680 real proposal forward which gives them value for us TikTok. 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.839 Having said that, they too. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.680 Are waiting to see what byte Edance decides to do 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:33.479 before committing. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.239 I'm really interested in the fact that investors are interested 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.480 in rolling over. What value will you reccreate for the 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.440 business going forward? Because you want as you've articulated a 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.440 totally different tech stack, how will that change the use 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.440 of TikTok? How will you monetize it as well? Because 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.680 you want a different form of social media. You don't 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.360 want us as content for the ultimate users and being 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:57.240 advertised against. 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:02.000 Yeah, well they'll be advertisement advertising on the new TikTok. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.000 Let's call it TikTok two point zero. 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.320 But we see an Internet evolving where, rather than an 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:13.520 attention economy, meaning algorithms designed to keep us addicted and 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:17.400 online in a very unhealthy fashion, why not an intention 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:22.240 economy where we just let people know we're interested in 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.080 buying something or reading something, our information on something, and 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.919 then we get that from the business or the advertiser. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:34.440 And inference is much less valuable than intention. So rather 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.560 than have algorithms that surveil us, scrape our data, and 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.479 then guess that we might want something, why not you 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.279 and I just be very clear, you know, verify that 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.359 we're a human being, and be very clear about what 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.400 we want and then receive it On the Internet. We 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.800 have technology available now that didn't exist twenty five years 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.880 ago that enables you and I to actually control our identity, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.880 our data, and our relationships. So let's put people in 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:06.360 charge of their data. Our data is very valuable, as 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:07.080 it turns. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.720 Out, I mean, and that's why so much value has 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.440 been accrued on a private market basis, at least to 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.360 byte dance and to TikTok. But ultimately by not making 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.320 these things quote unquote addictive, do you lose. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.600 Some of that value? And is that the right compromise here? 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.800 Well, there are other factors here, right in the case 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.560 of this Supreme Court hearing and the legislation that's being discussed. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:31.360 There are national security risks. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.640 There's also issues around safety to children. There are issues 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.040 about a viability of our democratic system with such polarization. 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:45.440 So the algorithms may be powerful, that doesn't mean that 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.360 they're good or constructive. We just have an Internet technology 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:54.480 that's evolved into one that's attention based, which means these 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.640 platforms scrape our data. They aggregate it, and to do that, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.760 they're actually surveilling us, right, and then they profile us. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.760 And this is the problem with what's going on with TikTok, 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.360 because it's not only the surveillance and the information on 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.440 one hundred and seventy million people, it's that ByteDance can 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.440 then provide what they want to feed to the one 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:17.840 hundred and seventy million people. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.600 So it's an influence device as well. 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.600 So I think we're all learning together that the current 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:30.600 architecture which takes advantage of people is not the best architecture. 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.920 It's leading to some very poor outcomes. This is just engineering. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.760 It's just it can be designed differently to work differently. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.720 We can get all the benefits we get from Internet 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.680 technology without the harms. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:45.080 And it's interesting that this. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:51.400 TikTok problem could actually be the way forward to a 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.560 much bigger solution to having an Internet that's much healthier 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:55.120 for all of us. 0:08:55.360 --> 0:09:00.240 How has that got ramifications on meta on snow, which 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.720 on the day are doing well because people feel okay. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:07.360 If TikTok loses this argument, it's out and then the viewers, 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.800 the followers, the users just go to these other rival platforms. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.360 The money the advertising money goes to these rival platforms. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.680 Why are analysts like Morgan Stanley that have pointed this 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.400 out not saying there's a legitimate bid here and we 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:20.400 think this could be a whole new dawn future for 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:21.000 social media. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.520 Why aren't people not taking that seriously? 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.120 I think they'll begin to now. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.160 I think that BYT Dance has been playing out their 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.559 legal strategy and it's coming to an end. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.560 Has been a good legal strategy from your perspective, Sorry, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.360 hasn't been a good legal strategy from your perspective. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.000 From the vantage point of looking at the legislation and 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.839 how it was passed strong bipartisan legislation and the real 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:50.520 national security risks. I think that the Byte Dance pursuit 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.280 of a legal strategy was an uphill battle from the 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.720 very beginning. And I think, as I say, it's coming 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:00.720 to an end now that that's that path is closing 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.760 down on them. Now they're confronted with January nineteenth, So 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.520 we're talking about not nine days and something has to give, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.480 so either that it's going to be shut down or 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.200 there'll be a transaction. That's why we put a formal 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.400 offer in place so there's enough time for them to 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.959 process that, and we hope they do because we want 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.200 to see TikTok stay alive. 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.199 We want to see it lit up. We don't want 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:25.720 to see. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.240 It banned or shut down, just like President Electrump does not. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.240 We want to see about President Electrump and ultimately what 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.840 January the twentieth means for all of this and the 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.400 request he's made of the Supreme Court to just delay facts. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.520 Well, I think the legislation will operate. It will be 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.040 the legislation and it's a hard and fast date of 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.040 January nineteenth. So the timing here is very interesting, isn't it. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.320 President Biden will still be president. It doesn't get to 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:56.320 President Electrump unless the ninety day of the three month 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:02.760 extension kicks in. So it's a Biden administration decision to 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:08.439 extend the timeframe for Bye Dance in TikTok, and then 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:09.199 it gets coot. 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.520 To allow some sort of delay, which many don't think 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:11.920 will happen. 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.400 Yeah, I'm assuming in answering your question that that won't happen. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.200 If it does, it's a different ballgame. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:18.040 I understand that. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.040 But you know, when you step back and think about this, 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.319 why wouldn't Bye dance accept an offer. If it doesn't 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:31.160 include the algorithm, they win. President Trump wins because it's 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.679 not banned. The shareholders that you mentioned win they get 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.160 value as opposed to getting nothing for us. TikTok Us 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.920 citizens win because our clean stack will protect them. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:43.720 The national security risk has gone. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.480 And of course TikTok users win because the app stays 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:48.240 in business. 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:50.600 Why aren't there competing bids. 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.959 The legislation requires that you have a clean stack. If 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:02.880 this be independent of by dances technology, that's not an 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.160 easy thing to do. If we hadn't been working on 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.079 the technology and invested a half a billion dollars over 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.400 the last five years, we wouldn't be in a position 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:16.200 to bid. It's very serendipitous in a way that the 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.719 work that Project Liberty has been doing to reimagine how 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.079 the Internet works just so happens to be right place, 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.480 right time to actually be the winning bidder for TikTok 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.240 keep the app going, move the user base to a 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.839 clean stack, and at the same time demonstrate to people 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.400 that there's another version of the Internet where they're in 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.679 charge of themselves. They own their data, they own their relationships, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:42.920 they can get value for it. 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.040 They can parse out and permission. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.920 Its use as opposed to being surveilled and having the 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.640 data be in the hands of someone else who's deciding 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.280 what to feed them, what to tell them. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.760 Briefly, next steps for you. 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.080 You've kind of given us your time today, But what 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.000 happens after we start the arguments finish at the Supreme Court. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.720 I think we're all anxiously awaiting the Supreme Court to 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.960 make their decision, and then we'll look forward to a 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.720 conversation with ByteDance and see if we can. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:11.520 Get something. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.920 Completed prior to the nineteenth so that the Biden administration 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.680 can get it this Roe month extension. 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.120 Please come back if that conversation happens. Frank McCourt, executive 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.320 chairman of McCourt Global, Founder of Project Liberty, and the 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:26.800 beard on. 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.520 The table for us TikTok. 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:30.920 Coming up, we'll take a look at some of the 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.520 tech themes dominating the deal sector in twenty twenty five. 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.280 Maybe this is a deal we need to talk about, 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.840 potentially a purchase of US TikTok with Barack ravin Is 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.400 of Ey America's that's next. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.960 This is blue Meg technology. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:53.960 A quick check on the market, so look broader benchmarks 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.800 are down today because the job's numbers were so hot. 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.920 Once again, we question whether the rake cuts will come 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.080 from the Federal Reserve or off by two percent on 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:03.599 the NASDAP. But we want to shine a light on 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.880 the key story in the Supreme Court today. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:07.720 TikTok fighting for its future. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.200 Meta platforms hire by five tens of percent, snap up 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:11.240 seven point seven percent. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:12.760 This as investors tried to. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.400 Descend the Actually, some of the oral arguments thus far 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.040 don't seem to be going in TikTok's favor. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.720 Let's just dwell on TikTok a little bit more, because 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.239 couldn't it be a deal. 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.440 To watch for twenty twenty five as we hear those 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.800 oral arguments over in the Supreme Court, as we discern 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.680 the future of TikTok and the United States tech deals 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.480 continue to be really impressive as they were in twenty 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.200 twenty four. Remember US volumes werep thirty two percent. Bak 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.360 Revied is the man to ask ey America's strategy and 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.520 Transactions technology sector leader joining us Now, Barak, I know 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.520 you can't tell us about the intricacies of whether it 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.800 or not we actually get a deal out of us TikTok, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.720 But have you been thinking through that particular deal. Is 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.200 the deal outlook for tech a strong one? 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.400 Yeah, Caroline, thank you for having me appreciate it. The 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.000 outlook is actually very strong, and we feel generally pretty poor, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.360 I think on you know, you're obviously you're talking about 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.320 TikTok today and it's a it's it's capturing a lot 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.640 of the imagination. But you know, when we think about 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.040 this deal, obviously we can't talk about it specifically, but 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.960 if you think about any large transaction, obviously it gets 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.600 very complex. And this is the kind of stuff that 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.000 generally tends to move the market and tends to show 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.960 that other M and A is possible and really can 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.000 help ignite the market if it was to happen. But 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.040 I do think that, you know, if we were to 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.880 go through this, when we talk to our clients about 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.160 complicated and complex carve outs, typically we talk about months 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.400 and quarters in terms of timelines to getting it done, 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.960 not you know, not generally not days or weeks, And 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:42.760 so you know, to the extent that some of that 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.280 work has been going on, that's that's fantastic. Depends on 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.040 who the buyer is in terms of what the stack 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.800 actually looks like, and how how capable they are to 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.680 receive it. All of that, you know, will will drive 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.600 the timeline here no matter what happens, and obviously you 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.320 need willing buyers and sellers. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:05.440 Ultimately, this is a geopolitical discussion that drives the potential 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.320 sale of TikTok. How much is geopolitics going to play 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.640 into M and A into carve outs as perhaps relationships 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.040 between the US and China become ever more tense. 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.600 Yeah, that's a great question, Caroline. It's impossible to underestimate 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.120 the impact that it already has had, in the chilling 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.720 effect it has had, particularly when you think about big tech, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.800 particularly when you think about the semiconductor space, I think 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:33.800 anti trust enforcement in the US, I think tariff wars 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.000 or skirmishes or battles. However you define those between the 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.720 US and China and potentially the EU and other countries, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.560 suddenly adds complexity to that. So when you think about 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.840 big tech and semiconductors and social media getting caught in 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.440 that crosshet, it really is a big has a big 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.560 chilling effect on M and A More broadly, Now, if 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.320 you think about the market more broadly than that ninety 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.320 something percent of the market, it isn't really involved in 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.560 that doesn't get caught up in that. So it's only 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.120 the US anti trust enforcement which will matter to them. 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.560 And if that kind of easies off under an incoming 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.359 Trump administration, I think that's generally a nice tailwind for 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:14.880 M and A going into twenty twenty five. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.679 And you said, of course there need to be willing 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.240 sellers and willing buyers. What's interesting is we're talking with 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:26.160 frant McCord is. He's got other in his combined concilidation 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.320 of people coming forward to want to buy it, private equity, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.199 family offices. For you, who are the willing buyers? Is 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:34.440 PE a big player here? 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:35.800 Yeah? 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.280 Pe, when you know, thinking more broadly about the market, 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.040 PE definitely has a role to play, I think, whether 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.800 it's in this deal and more broadly, you know, they're 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.200 experts at getting deals done. They've seen all the most 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.000 difficult deals, they've seen the easy deals, they've seen it all. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.800 They add balance sheet, they add availability of capital. So 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.800 they are fantastic owners to be part of any kind 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.320 of bid, particularly as a It's very complex, and I 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.719 think the industry has a lot of experience in you know, 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.159 looking at carve outs come you know, this would be 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.160 effectively a carve out, and so looking at big carve 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.000 outs coming out of you know, large enterprises. I think 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.159 private equity has a very large role to play in that, 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.200 whether it's this still specifically or more broadly, I think 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.400 in general, PE is very interested in items that get 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:26.399 carved out of larger take enterprises. Generally, their viewers that 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.800 these are you know, these have been unloved a little bit, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.120 they're potentially undermanaged. This isn't obviously the TikTok example we're 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.040 talking about here, but this is more broadly, and they 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.600 do see it as an opportunity to create value and 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.000 and and drive shareholder it time. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.359 You can have a busy year. Thanks for fitting us in. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.360 Eric Ravid of Ey America. 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.320 I just want to check in on in video Stock 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.399 right now because the company has been criticizing what we 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:03.080 expect to be new export restrictions coming from the Biden 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.000 White House ahead of any announcement that we expect later today, 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:09.919 and video is saying it's trying to undercut the incoming 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.280 Trump administration by imposing last minute rules. Bloomberg's Mike Shppard 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.639 joins us a more in video setting off three percent. 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.159 More to do with the macro jobs data, I'm sure, 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.640 but tell us a little bit about what also could 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.720 be a key headwind in terms of selling their devices worldwide. 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.200 Well, this really would be a headwind, and it would 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.280 come on top of other restrictions on AI chip sales 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.960 in China and Video is already facing from the US. 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.240 Those were imposed about a year and a half ago 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:41.080 by the Biden administration. In this new set of proposed 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.480 restrictions that could come in the next few days, this 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.080 would add a velvet rope to the world where the 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.320 US would be controlling access to these chips. It would 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.920 be capped. Your access would be capped on a company 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:59.000 and country basis, and the closest US allies, say Europe, 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.119 the UK, Pan Australia, they would have the most and 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.160 easiest access. Most of the rest of the world would 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.520 face tougher restrictions. They would have to meet security requirements 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.760 and also human rights requirements as well. And then there 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.800 are a handful of US adversaries, namely China and Russia 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.000 that would face the most restrictions in the least likelihood 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:22.159 of having access to this sophisticated AI technology. That is 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.160 coming from the US and principally from Nvidia. 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.520 Mike, what is so fascinating is it hasn't even been 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.439 announced yet and we've heard this strong response. I'm not 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.560 aware of how often we tend to hear these strong 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.119 rebuttals coming from companies, and video usually keeps relatively quiet 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:38.479 about these political changes. 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.080 You know, Carolyn, I'm glad you framed it that way, 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.359 because this was a really unusual comment from Nvidia, and 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.640