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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the

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Speaker 2: show that brings you the secret history is in lone,

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Speaker 2: fascinating facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV

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Speaker 2: shows and more. We are your two Texan blues shouters

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Speaker 2: of trivia, your hate Ashbury Heites of Hote hypocrypha, You're

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Speaker 2: Holding Company of Holy crap. Those guys are annoying. I'm

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Speaker 2: Alex Heide, your hate Ashburyites of Hate. I mostly meant

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Speaker 2: we're annoying, not like, oh, the hate Ashbury types were annoying,

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Speaker 2: although they were.

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Speaker 1: You're Jordan and I'm Jordan. Run Talk, Thank you and Jordan.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking about an album that is a bit

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Speaker 2: of an odd man out in the world of San

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Speaker 2: Francisco Capital t Capital s the sixties music, mostly because

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Speaker 2: the majority of people who made it were eventually subsumed

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Speaker 2: wholly into the larger story of their powerhouse singer. That

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Speaker 2: is right, we're talking about Mungo Jerry's No We're talking

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Speaker 2: about cheap y rills by Big Brother and the Holding Company,

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Speaker 2: who are today sadly mostly known as Janis Joplin's first band.

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Speaker 1: Sadly I don't think sadly eh, Okay, So let's get

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Speaker 1: into it.

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Speaker 2: Big Brother and the Holding Company were indeed a band

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Speaker 2: before the summer of nineteen sixty seven. They had years

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Speaker 2: of gigging, They had independent San Francisco fans, they had

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Speaker 2: their own full length record like already out there. But

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Speaker 2: they were left in the dust by one of the

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Speaker 2: most singular and powerhouse live performances of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 2: Janis at Monterey Pop in June of nineteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 2: Janis herself would describe the weekend as one of the

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Speaker 2: highest points of my life, and it was a similar

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Speaker 2: high point for the San Francisco music scene. It was

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Speaker 2: when the music industry at large took notice of what

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Speaker 2: was happening a little further up north in San Francisco

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Speaker 2: and basically launched most of the canonical sixties bands with

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Speaker 2: like the exception of the Dead. Is that fair to say?

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Speaker 2: And I guess Jefferson Airplane were already pretty big going

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Speaker 2: concern in San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: But is that accurate? Yeah, I mean canonical North Bay band.

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Speaker 3: But then you know a lot of the acts that

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Speaker 3: were playing there were from England. I mean, you got

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Speaker 3: the who they famously broke through in America at Monterey

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Speaker 3: and then everybody thought Jimmy Hendrix was an English band

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Speaker 3: because he had to go over there to make it

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Speaker 3: big and then come back here, right.

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Speaker 2: I forgot, Yeah, sorry, I forgot it was the Who

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Speaker 2: and that Jimmy Hendricks was also considered an English band

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Speaker 2: at that point.

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Speaker 3: So basically it was just the new vanguard of pop music.

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Speaker 3: The Thamesman era of pop bands were on their way out,

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Speaker 3: and then you had this new radical psych rock hippie

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Speaker 3: ish crew coming in.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of a pat way to say it, but

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much true.

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Speaker 2: But you know, sadly, for Big Brother, this meant that

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Speaker 2: they were going to become the quintessential overnight success gone awry,

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Speaker 2: and within a year, the searing spotlight that had subsequently

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Speaker 2: been trained squarely on Janis Joplin would much like No Doubt.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the no Doubt story, right, Like You've

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Speaker 2: got this dynamic front woman and then the guys.

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Speaker 1: I'm just one of the out of focus guys. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But also I'm.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I know going to get into it, but this

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Speaker 3: is a rare example where I'm going to be a hater.

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Speaker 1: Shush, a shush, shush, a shush.

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Speaker 2: I have so much more intro to get through. Before

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Speaker 2: all that happened, they were able to turn out Cheap Thrills, which,

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Speaker 2: whatever else you think of, it is a accurate snapshot

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Speaker 2: of a certain sound that happened at the time, while

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Speaker 2: also being a wonderful, pitch perfect example of the commodification

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Speaker 2: of the fading hippie dream, which was by itself already

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Speaker 2: in the.

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Speaker 1: Review mirror by the time it hit the national stage.

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Speaker 1: You know. O.

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Speaker 2: Sensibly, Cheap Thrills is a document of those magical wild

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Speaker 2: San Francisco nights that the rest of the nation was

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Speaker 2: hearing about and subsequently migrating towards. But it was actually

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Speaker 2: crafted in a studio run by the largest record manufacturer

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Speaker 2: on the planet, with an industry veteran at the helm.

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Speaker 2: It dropped during the Capital Y Capital O Capital U

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Speaker 2: Year of Unrest in the sixties nineteen sixty eight. A

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Speaker 2: Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun.

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Speaker 1: One day we'll retire that bit, but today's not the same.

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Speaker 2: Nope, Well, I think so, I might just switch over

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Speaker 2: to all along the watch Tower instead of instead of

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Speaker 2: fortunate son in there. So, oh whatever, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of in here that you wrote that is pretty good.

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Speaker 1: So do you want to just take over? Thank you? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I mean the fact that Janis recorded a mournful version

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Speaker 3: of Gershwin's Summertime on this album that came out in

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight really kind.

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Speaker 1: Of little on the nose. Huh yeah, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the summer of sixty seven was the summer love. The

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Speaker 1: summer of sixty eight is sort of the summer of hate.

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Speaker 1: A week after this album's release, police would beat up

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Speaker 1: demonstrators at Chicago's Democratic National Convention.

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Speaker 3: Earlier that summer, RFK was assassinated. That spring, Mark Luther

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Speaker 3: King Junior was assassinated. Not a great time, shall we say,

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Speaker 3: And then a month later the end of the summer,

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Speaker 3: Janice would leave Big Brother in the holding company. And

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Speaker 3: then a little over two years after that, Janice would

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Speaker 3: be dead and Big Brother a footnote in one of

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Speaker 3: the so called twenty seven Club's earliest members lives.

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Speaker 2: So all in all, a bummer Yeah, yeah yeah. Jordan

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Speaker 2: her thoughts on Janis, I think we're actually quite I

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Speaker 2: think the only thing we're actually going to differ in

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Speaker 2: this episode is sort of the respective talents of the

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Speaker 2: band Big Brother, but you know hit me.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, I've always had an affinity for Janie.

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Speaker 3: I feel for her in the same way that I

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Speaker 3: do Amy Winehouse. She was a sweet and vulnerable person

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Speaker 3: made hard by the world, specifically the world of showbiz

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Speaker 3: that her talent led her into. I'm hard pressed to

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Speaker 3: name another singer who so clearly embodied the archetype of

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Speaker 3: somebody who sought an audience as a substitute for love

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Speaker 3: that she'd felt she'd been denied early in her life,

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Speaker 3: and it's heartbreaking. I had the chance to speak with

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Speaker 3: Janis's brother and sister younger brother and sister a few

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Speaker 3: years back when they were publishing a scrap book that

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Speaker 3: Janis kept during her rise to fame from nineteen sixty

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Speaker 3: six to nineteen sixty eight. Scrap booking was very big

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Speaker 3: in the Joplin household, which I find very cute.

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Speaker 1: That is very cute.

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Speaker 3: Her younger brother, Michael, pointed out the way that Janie

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Speaker 3: walked off stage after a starmaking performance at Monterey after

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Speaker 3: striking this hardened blues MoMA pose. After this gutbucket version

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Speaker 3: of ball and chain. She does a little jubulant skip

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Speaker 3: off stage. Janis's brother Michael told me Janis nailed it,

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Speaker 3: and she knew it. That little dance is so sweet

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Speaker 3: and innocent. It's like I did it. I love it

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Speaker 3: because it makes her so human and approachable. Anyone can

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Speaker 3: relate to it. Even though she's a stranger from another

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Speaker 3: decade who lives a different lifestyle. You can recognize that

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Speaker 3: emotional moment. It's a beautiful thing. And the notes that

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Speaker 3: Janet's read to her family, which are included in the

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Speaker 3: scrap book, are just adorable. They're charmingly childlike because she's

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Speaker 3: just so clearly giddy as she's ascending into rock royalty.

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Speaker 1: Firstborn's really doing great in the music business. Starts one.

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Speaker 1: Did I tell you about all my reviews? Can I

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Speaker 1: tell you again? This is all so exciting to me.

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, Yeah, I know, it's painfully sweet. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, as predisposed as I am to dish out

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Speaker 2: a lot of hate for this era, I have none

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Speaker 2: of it for Janis. You know, she was part of

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Speaker 2: that generation that was force fed on us by the

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Speaker 2: boomer nostalgia industrial complex, as I've referred to it so

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Speaker 2: many times, and I just never took any issue with her,

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Speaker 2: and I still kind of remember the moment that it

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Speaker 2: like crystallized for me was like after all the clips

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Speaker 2: of her like catterwauling and doing all the bullshit, like

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Speaker 2: all the history onic not but doing all the historyonics

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Speaker 2: and all this stuff that like Capital J Janie, it

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Speaker 2: was when I was first listening to Pearl and that

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Speaker 2: Mercedes bands and just it just went. It opens with

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Speaker 2: her just going I can do this one one take?

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Speaker 4: Is it tape moving? I could do this one a

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Speaker 4: one take?

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Speaker 2: And it's just so like there's these little moments of

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Speaker 2: like humanity that you get with certain singers. My favorite

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Speaker 2: one for Lou Reid is in like the interminable Middle

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Speaker 2: of Street Hassle, which is his like eleven minute multi

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Speaker 2: sweet ode that has like a Bruce Springsteen spoken word track.

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Speaker 2: It's a really amazing song, but it is also like

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Speaker 2: peak Lou in that it's this like high concept thing

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Speaker 2: that is like clearly he's like, I'm doing my poetry thing.

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Speaker 2: I studied with Delmore Schwartz. Did you know that rock

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Speaker 2: and roll can be poetry?

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Speaker 1: Did you know that?

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Speaker 2: But there's a moment in there when he just delivers

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Speaker 2: like the most emotional thing I think I've ever heard

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Speaker 2: him sing, which is like the line is like come

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Speaker 2: on baby, let's slip away, and you just hear him

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Speaker 2: like every ounce of ironic detachment and misanthropy and trauma

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Speaker 2: that ever weighed on him, like just fall away and

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Speaker 2: he just goes, come on baby, and it just crushes me.

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Speaker 1: Come on, slib.

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Speaker 4: Come on baby, Why.

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Speaker 1: Don't just live away?

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Speaker 2: You know, there's so much artifice and show business and

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Speaker 2: there's so much nonsense, but like I still carry with

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Speaker 2: me every time something like that breaks through, and so

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Speaker 2: with Janie, that's in pearl for me, and you know,

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Speaker 2: even just but like the more the lie of the

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Speaker 2: sixties is kind of peeled back, and as the more

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Speaker 2: you dig into it, it really pisses me off how

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Speaker 2: poorly women were treated. That's coming to the four a

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Speaker 2: lot more. But when we were growing up and reading

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Speaker 2: about it, there was such a male slant to take

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Speaker 2: on it, where it was like, ah, you know, but

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Speaker 2: women were liberated because they could have sex, and nobody

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Speaker 2: talks about how like this whole communal living thing was

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Speaker 2: basically born on the expectation that women were still going

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Speaker 2: to do all the domestic work, and that even the

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Speaker 2: women who were ostensibly liberated and breaking this mold, Grace

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Speaker 2: Slick and Janice, were still at the absolute bottom of

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Speaker 2: every pecking order that they could find themselves in at

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Speaker 2: that time.

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Speaker 1: And in Janis's case, it broke her.

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Speaker 2: Like I mean, you can argue that she was predisposed,

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Speaker 2: she did not have the best coping mechanisms to enter

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Speaker 2: into the music industry, but we're ultimately talking about someone

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Speaker 2: who got kind of on for twenty five years and

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Speaker 2: had a two and a half year career and died.

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Speaker 1: And that's heartbreaking. And that's all I have to say

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm because it'll it'll, it'll, it'll just break me up,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's curely in the episode for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean the fact that a very similar,

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Speaker 3: if not the same thing happened to Amy Winehouse forty

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Speaker 3: years later, almost exactly in about the same time span.

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Speaker 1: I guess she had a slightly longer career public career.

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Speaker 3: I should say, Yeah, that's pretty scary that that still

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Speaker 3: goes on. I would like to say that in the

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Speaker 3: last ten years or so, we've gotten better in media

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Speaker 3: specifically but general as a culture and knowing how to

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Speaker 3: recognize and treat people who are going through those issues.

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Speaker 1: And just treating women better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just another big thing for me

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Speaker 2: that was like not actually part of this boomer thing

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Speaker 2: was reading in Uh Please Kill Me, which is like

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Speaker 2: such a foundational tone. It's like Legs McNeil's oral history

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Speaker 2: of proto punk and sort of classic generational punk, and

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Speaker 2: it's just still like even the MC five, who actually

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Speaker 2: have a connection to this story because they knew big

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Speaker 2: Brother guitarist James Hurley from Detroit, but like even the

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Speaker 2: MC five who were like, oh, white Panthers, you know,

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Speaker 2: like we're with the struggle and everything. Like everyone in

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Speaker 2: that band was like the only reason that they were

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Speaker 2: able to be a band was because they just treated

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Speaker 2: women like unpaid help in their like communal house. And

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Speaker 2: they were just like, yeah, you guys just do everything

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Speaker 2: and will like foment insurrections by playing loudly and smoking

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Speaker 2: a lot of weed. Same with the Stooges, like same

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Speaker 2: with any time of band is like in kind of

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Speaker 2: a communal setup or communal living institution in this in

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Speaker 2: this and as modeled as some kind of a utopia.

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Speaker 2: The quiet part out loud is always that there there

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Speaker 2: were romantic partners who were expected to do all the work,

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Speaker 2: and it just drives me up.

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Speaker 1: A goddamn wall.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I have a note here that says change to

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Speaker 2: much brighter tone of voice. So from the house that

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Speaker 2: launched the hate Ashbury to the securitiest route Janis took

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Speaker 2: to becoming a San Francisco icon, to the technical limitations

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Speaker 2: of Big Brother, to Janis's final departure from the band.

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Speaker 2: Here's everything you didn't know about Big Brother and the

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Speaker 2: Holding Company's cheap throats.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, did you want a Big Brother yet? No, we'll

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Speaker 1: get to it. We'll get to I'm sure I'll find

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Speaker 1: the place. I bet you will. Okay.

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Speaker 2: The story of Big Brother actually begins in the late

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Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, when not long before an earthquake and fire

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Speaker 2: would reshape much of San Francisco into what it is today.

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Speaker 2: The Big Victorian House at ten ninety Paid Street was

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Speaker 2: built by either a habitdasher or a furniture merchant accounts ferry.

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Speaker 2: It was quite modern by the standards of the day.

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Speaker 2: It had speaking tubes, a doorbell that rang on each

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Speaker 2: floor and gas lighting sconces on the walls where the

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Speaker 2: electricity went out most germane to this story, the house's

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Speaker 2: basement was a full size ballroom with a stage in

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Speaker 2: one alcove, which naturally became a jazz speakeasy during prohibition.

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Speaker 2: By the nineteen forties, however, it was no longer a

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Speaker 2: private residence and was functioning as a twenty two room

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Speaker 2: boarding house, with a period where it may have also

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Speaker 2: been a brothel somewhere in there again accounts very hilariously enough.

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Speaker 2: It was also featured in a nineteen sixty one Life

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Speaker 2: magazine article charmingly titled the Irish in America, which featured

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Speaker 2: a large spread of thirty quote typical Irish working stiffs

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Speaker 2: and the then landlady and Missus Minton leaning out of

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Speaker 2: ten ninety pages windows. Not long after that photo was

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Speaker 2: taken in the spring or summer of nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 2: the Beatles, etc. At Sullivan, Rodney Alban's uncle bought it.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Rodney's uncle originally wanted to convert ten ninety page into

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Speaker 2: federally funded senior housing, but his nephew convinced him that

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Speaker 2: it would be faster and easier, not involving as much

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Speaker 2: red tape. To turn it into student housing, Rodney guaranteed

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Speaker 2: him at least six hundred dollars a month that would

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Speaker 2: be coming in from San Francisco State students like himself,

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Speaker 2: and Rodney's uncle was convinced. Rooms started at fifteen dollars

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Speaker 2: per month, and in relatively short order, ten ninety Page

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Speaker 2: became one of San Francisco's original hippie houses. Rodney's brother,

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Speaker 2: Pete Albin, who is the bass player for A Big Brother,

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Speaker 2: was staying at ten ninety Page naturally, and also living

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Speaker 2: there was an experimental filmmaker named Lauren Means, who, one night,

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Speaker 2: inspired by the jamming and musical activity that often took

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Speaker 2: place in the basement of the building, decided to screen

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Speaker 2: one of his films there. Peter pitched the idea of

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Speaker 2: having it accompanied by improvisatory live music, which actually makes

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Speaker 2: this contemporaneous to Andy Warhol and the exploding plastic inevitable

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Speaker 2: in New York which birthed the Velvet Underground, So that's

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Speaker 2: kind of an interesting bit of cross coastal synchronicity. Peter

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Speaker 2: had just gotten an electric bass and he knew a

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Speaker 2: quote unquote surf style drummer, which I assume just means

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Speaker 2: just surf music, so hilariously limited and yet so beloved.

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Speaker 1: Oh I can see you loving it.

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Speaker 2: I love Dick Dale because Dick Dale was also like

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00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to get a black belt in martial arts

300
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,000
Speaker 2: and do nunchuck ro gines on stage. Aside from playing

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00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,000
Speaker 2: like ungodly loud. You know, the Ventures have some cool

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00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 2: arrangements in terms of like their virtuosity and stuff, but

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00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 2: I ultimately think it's about as funny as people who

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00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 2: like fetish eye like Andrew's Sisters pop, or like extremely early,

305
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 2: extremely early like let's go to the hop fifties rock

306
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 2: and roll, where I'm like, this is such a quaint,

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00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 2: incredibly limited form of music, and people lose their minds

308
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Speaker 2: over it, especially in the guitar in the gear industry,

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00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 2: Like there is so much the GDP of like retro

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Speaker 2: surf style effects that are all essentially aping like the

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00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 2: guts of three or so years of Fender amps and

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00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 2: specific Fender guitars. Could it's probably more than like Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's just insane that people are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: surf music that was the thing for like three years.

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Speaker 2: I will dedicate my life to this. That said, I've

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00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 2: seen some really amazing surf bands. There's dikaiju Our Hoous

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00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn. Seth Applebaum and Greg Hansen had a band

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Speaker 2: called Mad Doctors that had some it was like surf punk.

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Speaker 2: I also saw the surfer Jets a few months ago

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco. That was the band that is most

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Speaker 2: famous for doing the surf cover. It's all female band.

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Speaker 2: They do a surf cover of Toxic that went really viral.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he killed it. I have to say like

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00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 2: they were extremely sick musicians. All of their arrangements were

325
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,679
Speaker 2: like pitch perfect and finally tuned, but it's still dumb.

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Speaker 2: It's I'm sorry, it's it's like it's like a skiffle band.

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Speaker 2: It's like being a skiffle band in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Uh Anyway, digression over. Pete called his pal

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Speaker 2: Sam Andrew, who lived a block away, and then, in

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Speaker 2: this period of the day before you had dedicated bassing

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Speaker 2: guitar amps, they just both plugged into one channel of

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Speaker 2: one Gibson amp. Sam Andrew is an interesting character. He

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00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,919
Speaker 2: was twenty three at the time and he'd been playing

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Speaker 2: in bands since his teens as he was an army

335
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 2: brat in Okinawa, and he also studied languages and philosophy

336
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 2: at both the University of San Francisco and the Sorbone

337
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 2: friend of the pod the Sorbonne, proving that even er

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00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 2: hippies weren't averse to capitalism. The three of them along

339
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 2: with chet Helms, who is a promoter and man about

340
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,919
Speaker 2: town who is sometimes referred to as the father of

341
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 2: the Summer of Love for his role in managing Big

342
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 2: Brother early promoting shows around San Francisco. I believe he's

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Speaker 2: also credited with having the first live like oil light projection.

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Speaker 1: Oh the Joshua Light Show or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I

345
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: don't know, fulsating lava lamp on stage kind of deal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hippie shit.

347
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 2: They decided to turn this into a recurring event with

348
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 2: themselves as the house band and charge fifty cents for

349
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 2: people to come in and jam or sing or play

350
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 2: harmonica over them or whatever. It got popular enough that

351
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,919
Speaker 2: they started charging seventy five cents sellouts, sellouts.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: Eventually this scene was infiltrated by the non peace and

354
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 2: Love crowd and the evenings faded away. Of course, I'm

355
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: alluding to drugs and you know, nom well, you know

356
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 2: these things happened. But Chuck Jones, Peter Rubin, and Sam

357
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 2: Andrew decided to stay at trio with Helms managing them.

358
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 2: Helms brought in another guitar player into the fold. Who

359
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 2: is this self taught guitarist named James Gurley from Detroit,

360
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 2: who an alarming number of people seemed to hold up

361
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 2: as like like I've heard multiple people referred to him

362
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 2: as like the father of psychedelic guitar, which is stupid.

363
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 2: That's a stupid thing to say. The whole log line

364
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 2: on him is that, like everybody in this period of

365
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 2: the sixties, all of these guitarists had suddenly heard late

366
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 2: Coltrane and Albert Eiler and Ornett Coleman, and they were

367
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 2: all like, ooh, how can.

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00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: I do that on guitar?

369
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: Naturally, lacking the chops, they would just play as loudly

370
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 2: and fast as they could. This is you hear this

371
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 2: on aload of Velvet Underground recordings at the time. Lou

372
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 2: Reed had this crazy guitar. I think it might have

373
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 2: been a silver tone that had a bunch of on

374
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 2: board effects. You can actually still find these They have

375
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 2: like a tremolo circuit built into the guitar that you

376
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 2: can flip on.

377
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: So what Lou would do.

378
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: Is flip that on, crank it as high as possible,

379
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 2: and then just scramble his hands around the fretboard.

380
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: He was like, it sounds like we're Nott Coleman.

381
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 2: There's actually a quote where in like early Velvet Underground coverage.

382
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: I think you can find this in like the Rough

383
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 2: Guide to the Velvet Underground book where he calls it

384
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 2: quote the fastest guitar playing ever, which is so stupid

385
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 2: and anyway you can tell. As a jazz dork, I

386
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 2: have feelings about guitarists being like, oh I saw him

387
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 2: a cold train by just being like anyway, the second

388
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: of my diversions over God, I'm two grafts in. It's

389
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 2: gonna be a long seventeen pages, folks. They got a

390
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 2: loan from none other than San Francisco Music. I had

391
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: gone Philmore owner and all around impresario Bill Graham for

392
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 2: new equipment and now suitably amplified. They practiced in the

393
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 2: basement until Rodney Albin, of all people, their landlord, essentially

394
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 2: kicked them out over the racket. But the band played

395
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 2: it's first gig in January of nineteen sixty six and

396
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: got a new drummer out of the audience at that gig.

397
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 2: Chet Elms then installed them as the house band at

398
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 2: his club, the Avalon, where he was booking. They were

399
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 2: playing like these long, meandering instrumentals, because again, they were

400
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: doing this thing where they're like, oh, we're hip to

401
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 2: Ceciar Taylor, We're hip to Albert Isler, We're hip to

402
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: or Nick Coleman, We're hip to son Raw. Never mind

403
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 2: the fact that Cecil Taylor is like one of the

404
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 2: most sweet, generous geniuses of the twentieth century on keyboard.

405
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 2: Never mind the fact that Son Raw has a universe

406
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 2: unto itself. Of course, these white nerds just garbling bullshit

407
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 2: on their guitar.

408
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: We're like, we're doing that too, So why are you

409
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: fighting me on my opinion that this is a terrible band,

410
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: minus Jennis.

411
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,479
Speaker 2: Because I don't think they're a terrible band. My issue

412
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,199
Speaker 2: is with this era of white guitar player.

413
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 1: It's Heigels woke corner.

414
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 2: There's a constant through line with white musicians, and your

415
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 2: beloved Paul McCartney is not exempted from this of being like,

416
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I've heard al but Ida now, so he's

417
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: going in. He's we'll put them a bit of him

418
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: in the new Insultant Peppas. No you're not okay. I'm sorry.

419
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 2: Any guy plugging into Gibson amp and just scraping his

420
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 2: fingers across the strings as fast as possible is not

421
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: in the same universe of understanding of John Coltrane. So

422
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: I just want to put that fly to bed. At

423
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: least Jerry Garcia, God loved him, was like I played banjo,

424
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: he was, I mean, like, he did not have this

425
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: rhetoric about being able to play free jazz, although or

426
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: any jazz, even though the Grateful Diad did play with

427
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: Fornette Coleman. It's a very specific trigger for me. It's

428
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 2: just this white, middle class musician patronizing attitude that I

429
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 2: just despise from this generation, especially because a lot of

430
00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 2: black guys were coming back from World War Two as

431
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: a Tuskegee airman or whatever and going to college on

432
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: the GI bill, and that's why we had such a

433
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: generational explosion of jazz talent following the war. So now

434
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: all these in middle class student losers are like, oh yeah,

435
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: I heard John Coltrane, and now I play like John

436
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 2: Coltrane on the guitar.

437
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of white people doing the blues. Janice Lynn Choplin.

438
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 3: She was born in the oil refinery town of Port Arthur, Texas,

439
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 3: on January nineteenth, nineteen forty three, apparently coming into this

440
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: world on the wrong foot, as you write, where she

441
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 3: stayed until the end of her tragically short life.

442
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: She just did not get a change. I know, so sad.

443
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: It just kills me.

444
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 3: It's a big part of Janis's legend that growing up

445
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 3: in Port Arthur sucked, and it did, but not just.

446
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: For the reasons you'd expect it being Port Arthur, Texas.

447
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, but also she was Janis Joplin and never the

448
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: Twains shall meet. I said in Texas, I was a beatnik,

449
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 3: a weirdo, and since I wasn't making it the way

450
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: I am now, my parents thought I was a goner.

451
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: She's talking to Rolling Stone and nineteen sixty eight.

452
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 3: Texas is okay if you want to settle down and

453
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: do your own thing quietly, but it's not for outrageous people.

454
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: And I was always outrageous. I got treated very badly

455
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 3: in Texas. They don't treat beatniks too good. In Texas,

456
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 3: Janis was bullied for nonconforming, among other things. She was

457
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 3: very vocally opposed to segregation, and she took solos among

458
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: other outcasts, one of whom introduced her to blues records

459
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 3: by the likes of Bessie Smith and Mal Rainey. She

460
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: began singing blues and folk music with friends at Thomas

461
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 3: Jefferson High School, but was ostracized and bullied over her

462
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: weight and acne, which left her with deep scars which

463
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: required derm abrasion. They put me down, man, those square

464
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 3: people in Port Arthur.

465
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: Janis later said in a way that probably sounded a

466
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: lot cooler than I just said it.

467
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: I have to admit I have been mocking big brother

468
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: white hippie speech in every single one of these subject headers.

469
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you read them every time? Yeah?

470
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: Okay, we're currently intersection that is titled hey, come on, mama,

471
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 2: I got demoed. Shouldn't be talking like this blues again.

472
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 2: The previous one was okay, Mama, let's boogie or whatever

473
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: stupid shit they would have said.

474
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: We will shout these out.

475
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: As the episode continues, Janna said, they put me down

476
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: those people in Port Arthur. They called me a slut,

477
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: they threw rocks at me in class, But all I

478
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 3: was looking for was some kind of personal freedom and

479
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: other people who felt the way I did. Yeah, there's

480
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 3: this great interview with Janis on the Dick Cavett Show

481
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: where she tries to convince Dick to accompany her to

482
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: her high school reunion, and he, without missing a beat, goes, well,

483
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 3: I'd love to, but I don't think I have many

484
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: friends in Port Arthur, Texas, and.

485
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: She immediately replies, well, neither did I.

486
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: They laughed me out of class, out of town, and

487
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: out of the state, and now I'm going home. And

488
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: she has this little, like mischievous, almost impish look in

489
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: her face, and the crowd in the audience at the

490
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 3: TV studio loses their mind.

491
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: It's like, it's very very sweet. I urge you all

492
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: to look this up.

493
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: She was on the Dick Cavit Show a number of times.

494
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 3: I can't remember which one this would have been, but it's.

495
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: Look them all up. They're all great. I also heard

496
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: a story, and I don't know how true this is,

497
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: that she and Dick Cabot had a little like affair together,

498
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: which I find adorable. Yeah, I mean, I'm such a

499
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: little like square. Yeah. I mean I didn't.

500
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: Put a ton of bout Janis's entanglements in here.

501
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: No, no, nor should you. But I just like their

502
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: relationship because he's such a little nerd and he clearly.

503
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: Like adores her and deeply respects her. I want to

504
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: say he had her on a show like many many

505
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: times now.

506
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: I think my favorite was just when I was reading

507
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: the when I was having my Dead phase in college,

508
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: and I read the Dead biography like they were she

509
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: pops up in there because they were just like in

510
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: the in the day house in hate Ashbury, they were

511
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 2: just like Yeah, that period when pig pen Ron McKiernan,

512
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: the original grade for Dead keyboardist and Janis were dating

513
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: was especially terrible because they were just get wasted and

514
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: sing the blues and have sex in like the back

515
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: corner of the house and it was just like the loudest, grossest,

516
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: Like I know, it smelled crazy in there, but it

517
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: was like Bob Weird full less like everyone else in

518
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: the house was just.

519
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: Like that was a rough couple of months.

520
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: Was this before or after she broke a battle over

521
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: Jim Morrison's head for being a jerk.

522
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm not familiar with that, but god, lover

523
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

524
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: I have to look those up very quickly.

525
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 3: Hang on, They're at a party in Hidden Hills, Los Angeles.

526
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 3: Producer Paul Rothschild, who worked with the Doors, suggested that

527
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: they both arrived at the party sober so they could

528
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 3: remember meeting one another. The drinks began to flow, and

529
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: roth Child remembers Morrison becoming quote a cretn, a disgusting drunk,

530
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: and was just generally obnoxious.

531
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, no precedent for that. Yeah.

532
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: Morrison apparently made some advances to Joplin which she did

533
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: not appreciate, and she ended up trying to leave. And

534
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: then Jim grabbed Joplin by the hair and tried to

535
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: pull her out of her car when she was leaving.

536
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 3: Oh boy, Janice, acting instantaneously grabbed the bottle of Southern

537
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 3: Comfort and promptly hit Jim across the head, sending him

538
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 3: sprawling to the ground.

539
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: That's shock.

540
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: We didn't get to that in the Doors episode. I

541
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: actually don't think i'd heard that.

542
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah cool. I think they might

543
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: have made up years later. I think kind of in

544
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: the circuit. It's also I never mind, Oh well, it's

545
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: also believed that the drug dealer, the same drug dealer,

546
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: is essentially to blame for both their deaths.

547
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: Oh right, I forgot. That's one of your one of

548
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: your cottage theories. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

549
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: I wrote about it for people.

550
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: It was some kind of Moroccan ne'er do well rich

551
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: fail son.

552
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: He was a count. He was a French count. Yeah,

553
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: I was close, and he was young.

554
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: He was like yeah, he was like a jet setting

555
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: fail Son and he was He made money selling heroin

556
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 3: that he just didn't test.

557
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: Essentially, he had no real quality control over it.

558
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: And so, for example, when Janis died in October in

559
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy, there were like some phenomenal number of heroin

560
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: overdoses in that same area the weekend she died because

561
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: this guy sold heroin that was like dangerously pure because

562
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: he didn't test it.

563
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: Count Jean de Portrial is his name, Rick, and it's

564
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: believed that he also sold Jim Morrison the lethal dose

565
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: of heroin a year later, and he himself died of

566
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: a an overdose, I want to say, in nineteen seventy two,

567
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: throwing a scarfer in my neck going and that's the

568
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: end of that chapter. Who's the nineteen twenty star who said,

569
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: all right, my friends said, now I shall go off

570
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: to glory. As she like left the party and she

571
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: had a huge scarf on, and right after she said that,

572
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: the scarf like got caught in like a car door

573
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: that was daser to or a duncan you're referring to. Yeah,

574
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: I think so.

575
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: I did not realize that that was her her last words.

576
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: All right.

577
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: Then her silk scarf dripped around her neck, became entangled

578
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: in the wheel well around the open spoked wheels and

579
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: rear axle, pulling her from the open car, breaking her neck.

580
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: Her last words were, farewell, my friends, I go to glory.

581
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: We're getting there anyway, We're getting there. Okay, where the

582
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: hell was I? Oh? Yeah, So Jennis was trying to

583
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: get Dick Cavitt to go with her to her high

584
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: school reunion now that she was rich and famous. Apparently

585
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: it didn't go. This is sad to me. She did

586
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: end up going to her high school reunion and like

587
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: they still didn't accept her or like her now that

588
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: she was rich and famous. Yeah, I was.

589
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we get into this at the end, but

590
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: it was her last public appearance.

591
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, Janis. She was an interesting kid. Her family

592
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: actually wasn't.

593
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: There's this picture painted of her as like, you know,

594
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 3: prototypical hippie in the fifties and sixties with square parents.

595
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: Her parents were actually kind of cool. They were both

596
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: frustrated artists.

597
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: Their dad went to art school and was forced to

598
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 3: get a day job, and their mom was actually an

599
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: operatic soprano whose vocal cores have been wrecked by an

600
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: operation as a young woman, and so she wasn't able

601
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: to pursue her dream of.

602
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: Being a singer. Jesus Christ.

603
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Michael Joplin, Janis's younger brother, told me that

604
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 3: their parents were quote cut off from their passion at

605
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: a young age, so they allowed us to experiment and

606
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: I think this is cute. Instead of buying them store

607
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: bought games, for example, the Joplin children were handed blank paper, crayons,

608
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 3: and pieces of wood and encouraged to make their own

609
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 3: goals and rules. And that's basically how Janie and the

610
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: rest of the Joplin kids approached life. It was a

611
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: very literate household. The highlight of each week was a

612
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 3: trip to the library, and as a teen, Janis shared

613
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 3: her ideas through writing. She won an award for English.

614
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: Journalism in junior high and she even wrote letters to

615
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: the editor of Time magazine.

616
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: When she was a student, which I think is really cool.

617
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: She started singing around the house on Saturdays because that

618
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 3: was cleaning day, and so when the family were all

619
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: doing their chores, they would put on a record and

620
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 3: all just sing along to it. Janis's mom preferred show tunes,

621
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: and she instilled in Janice a lifelong love of the

622
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: Gershwin classics summertime. She mentioned earlier that would become a

623
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: staple over concert repertoire. Her dad's tastes ran towards the classical,

624
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: and Jani's sister Laura told me he would say, sit down,

625
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: sit down, listen, just listen. He would play a particular

626
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 3: phrase on a classical LP and then he would look

627
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: at you with this question can you feel it?

628
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: Can you? And like for a dad in the fifties,

629
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: like that, are you feeling it now, mister crabs? I

630
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I just think that's like a cool, like

631
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: a weirdly advanced thing for like a dad in the

632
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: fifties to do. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

633
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 3: Janis's mom was more focused on the mechanics of singing.

634
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: She taught her daughter about how important was to sing

635
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 3: from her diaphragm and an enunciate.

636
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: So I just think that's really cool. You've got like

637
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: the emotional component of music coming from her dad and

638
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: all the technical mechanical stuff coming from her mom. I

639
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: just think that's really interesting. The Port Arthur music scene

640
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: wasn't as horrible as you might expect. Go on Michael Joplin.

641
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: Her younger brothers would say.

642
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: There was music everywhere at every night club. The Johnny

643
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: Winters brothers played every other Saturday at the roller skating rink,

644
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: and zz Top played my high school prom.

645
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: I didn't forget zz Top were like a band before

646
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: the Beatles. Oh that's I mean, that's an exaggeration, but

647
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: like they were.

648
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: They were around for a long long time.

649
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: Those guys were like came out of the earth in

650
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: Texas playing playing blues.

651
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: I mean, Jimmy Hendrick's famously said that Billy Gibbons was

652
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: his favorite guitarist.

653
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: Do you think I have no No, But I have no.

654
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 2: Idea who that actual quote is about, because that quote

655
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: is said about it Terry Cath from Chicago.

656
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: Terry Cath from Chicago, Roy Clark, Robbie Robertson, uh Ry

657
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: Gallagher Like, I don't know the actual source of that quote.

658
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to Snopes it right now anyway.

659
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: But yes, but do you think they cross paths like

660
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: on the Chitpland Circuit or down in Texas when Jimmy

661
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 3: was back in like the Isisley Brothers or little Richard

662
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: that scans.

663
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm pretty sure the zezy Top guys knew.

664
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 2: They knew like thirteenth floor elevators too. Janie also knew, right,

665
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: so chance was going to be in the thirteenth floor

666
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: elevators At one point I thought, yes, so yeah, I mean,

667
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, Texas, Texas is not that. Texas

668
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: isn't a big place. I like, I think like the

669
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: musical parts of Texas are small commune. I don't know,

670
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: I'm talking about keeper, shut up, don't look at me.

671
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: Port Arthur in the late fifties was still racially segregated

672
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: as we touched on earlier, and whites were not welcome

673
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: in venues that catered to black patrons. So Janis and

674
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: her like minded friends ventured across state lines to Louisiana,

675
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: sneaking to blues and Cajun clubs while under age. These

676
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: illicit late night trips across the border drew the attention

677
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: of local police on at least one occasion, which solidified

678
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 3: a reputation.

679
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: As a quote bad girl and an outcast.

680
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: Janas spent most of her adolescence ostracized by her community,

681
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 3: and she resented it.

682
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: For the rest of her life. Michael Joplin told me,

683
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: we all wanted to get out of Port Arthur immediately.

684
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: It was hell. Our parents even said you need to

685
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: leave as soon as you can. It was just nasty.

686
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: I got beat up because I wore bell bottoms. It

687
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: wasn't good. I'm Phillian new a new enemy of the

688
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 1: Pod coming on, But poor.

689
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: Arch Texas, Port Arthur, Texas Enemy of the Pod, Port

690
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 2: Arthur tech Sis.

691
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: Okay, here's that Snopes thing. Okay.

692
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: When someone asked Eric Clapton what it was like to

693
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: be the greatest guitarist in the world, he responded, I

694
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 2: don't know. Ask Prince. That sprung up in the wake

695
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 2: of Prince's death in April twenty sixteen.

696
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: Really, well, that's how recent that was Oh I thought

697
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: that was like an old no.

698
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: But there, But you know, Snopes has correctly identified it

699
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: as a quote that is allegedly asked to Jimmy Hendricks,

700
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: and apparently Jimmy Hendricks was on The Tonight Show one

701
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: time in the late sixties. Johnny Carson asked h how

702
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: it felt to be the greatest guitarist ever. Hendricks quickly

703
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: responded with, I don't know. You'd have to ask Phil Kegy.

704
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 3: Jimmy Hendricks was on the Tonight Show. I know he

705
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 3: was on Dick Cavin. I cannot imagine he was on

706
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: the Tonight Show.

707
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, Phil Kegy is a Christian guitarist. At that time,

708
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: he would have been playing it as a member of

709
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: the band Glass Harp.

710
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 3: Oh wait, it was a night when Johnny wasn't there,

711
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: and the guest that was was Flip Wilson. Okay, that's

712
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 3: kind of cool.

713
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 1: That is correct.

714
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: Yes, the amp blew up on Jimmy and he walked

715
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: off stage, leaving a session drummer and bass player alone

716
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: on stage. Hendrix did sing the praises of Billy Gibbons,

717
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: who is then in the moving sidewalks during a Dick

718
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: Cavitt Show, so at least he did. He did say

719
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: it about Billy Gibbons, but it has also been attributed

720
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: to Jimi Hendrix saying that about Irish guitarist Rory Gallagher,

721
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 2: who is a heat Like if you think Eric Clapton

722
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 2: is a good blues guitarist and I don't know, but

723
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: listen to Roy Gallagher.

724
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: Roy Gallagher.

725
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: Is everything that Clapton wishes he could be and can't

726
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: and isn't and never will be. John Lennon supposedly said

727
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: after seeing Rory Gallagher, I've seen the future of rock

728
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 2: and roll and it is Roy Gallaher. So anyway, there's

729
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: another bullsh thing that we maybe learned more about.

730
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: That's the stinger on every episode. That's all. We're gonna

731
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: close every episode now.

732
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: Jane has graduate from high school and night teen sixteen

733
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 2: attended Lamar State College of Technology in Beaumont, Texas, and

734
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: then later the University of Texas at Austin, UT hookem horns.

735
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: Are they the aggies?

736
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 2: I hate Texas? Sorry, we have listeners there, presumably, what

737
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: are they gonna do? Get sunburned at me?

738
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 4: Well?

739
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: Friend of the pod, Dora, Oh no, sorry, shouts to

740
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: friend of the pod Dora who is in Texas, and

741
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: also Willie Nelson. There's cool guys for Texas. My cousin Cameron,

742
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: Jordan's cousin Cameron and the rest. If you live in Texas,

743
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 2: you listen to those shot get in touch.

744
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you.

745
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: We're not talking about you when I say Texas sucks,

746
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: but having driven through Texas on tour, Texas sucks.

747
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: Friend of the pod Dora sent me a postcard from

748
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 3: the Texas school Book Depository Museum where Kennedy was assassinated

749
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: from alleged lee and wrote on it because he was

750
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: driving down Elm Street, and she wrote on it talk

751
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: about a nightmare on Elm Street. And I can't believe

752
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: that joke never occurred to me and I just need

753
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: to share that publicly and a truly amazing, irreverent joke.

754
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: I told my dad that joke and he laughed, and

755
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: he's a tough audience. You know. We we have great fans.

756
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: We have wonderful fans, and some of them live in Texas. Yeah. Anyway.

757
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: The newspaper of The Daily Textan ran a profile of

758
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: Janis in their July twenty seventh nineteen sixty two issue,

759
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: headlined she dares to be different?

760
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: Is that where Devo got their thing? Uh? Just kidding,

761
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: they didn't. But there's a dare to be stupid anyway,

762
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: that's weird. Al is there to be stupid? He's weird?

763
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: Al doing Devo parody?

764
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, I'm so tired. She goes barefooted when she

765
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: feels like it, wears Levi's to class because they're more comfortable,

766
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: and carries her autoharp with her everywhere she goes so

767
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: that in case she gets the urge to break into song,

768
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: it will be handy. Her name is Janis Joplin. Campus

769
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: journalism in the sixties, you get what you pay for.

770
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 3: Only one of those things is remotely different. Now, carrying

771
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: an auto hoop around is sort of a weird move,

772
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: but surely there are apps on your phone, so you know,

773
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: in a way, we all carry an auto hoop around

774
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 3: with us in case we get the earage to break

775
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 3: into song.

776
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, whither the auto harp?

777
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: I know it never really, you know, it never delivered

778
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: on the promise that mid sixties folk pop bands really

779
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: set up. I mean, eleven Spoonful had one. Surely there

780
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: are others.

781
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: I think Carter Family, Dolly Parton played one. It was

782
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 2: a big country thing too.

783
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But it wasn't all getting autofile auto harps

784
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: and getting profiled by her college newspaper because she wanted

785
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: to wear jeans and go barefoot when she felt like it, which, honestly,

786
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

787
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: If my like college newspaper just did a profile on

788
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 3: me because I was weird and then stuck it on

789
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 3: the front of the paper, I would be kind of mortified.

790
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: Like I know, in retrospect, there's a poignancy to you know,

791
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 3: that she dares to be different headline.

792
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: But that's kind of horrifying. I really don't like that.

793
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: But this is even worse. This is a famous bit

794
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 3: of Janie's law. I'm sure that some of you have

795
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: heard before. I'm sure you've heard or Heigel. She was

796
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: nominated by the frat boys she went to school with

797
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 3: for their annual Ugliest Man on Campus competition, and this

798
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 3: is sort of in janice law is positioned as the insult.

799
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: That pushed her to pursue stardom, the inciting incident.

800
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 3: Some in her life later insisted that this didn't really

801
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: affect her, and even her sister Laura said, I think

802
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: it was easily within the realma possibility that Janis nominated

803
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 3: herself as ugly man as a joke. But Janis's mother

804
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 3: recalled to a biographer that she received an anguish letter

805
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 3: about the incident from Janie and a male friend. Speaking

806
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: in a twenty sixteen PBS American Master's documentary, burst into

807
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: tears recalling the incident, saying that the sight of a

808
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 3: wounded Janice was quote the saddest thing I ever saw.

809
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: That's a tough part of that documentary. I think it's

810
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: called Little Girl Blue. It's a great American Master's documentary

811
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: on Janis. So yeah, Savagery continued against this poured on

812
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: conformist soul.

813
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: And Texan frat boys. You know they're probably all in

814
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 2: fortune five hundred CEOs right now. Damn we're dead. Well

815
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: one is better than the other.

816
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

817
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: Uh.

818
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: Jana Is saying folk music piled around with the staff

819
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 2: of the campus humor magazine shows that recorded her first song,

820
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: What Good Can Drink and Do to tape in December

821
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: of nineteen sixty two at another UT student's home.

822
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 4: This is a song called What Good Drink and Do

823
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 4: that I wrote one night after drinking myself into a

824
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 4: stupor what good Candering, What good Candy?

825
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: Allan and recorded.

826
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 4: But the nexttid there's a glass on the table.

827
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: This is Gonni's on.

828
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: This is another thing that I think people don't necessarily

829
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: know about Janis is that she had one unsuccessful dry

830
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: run at San Francisco before she became Miss San Francisco,

831
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: along with you know, Grace Slick. She went there in

832
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: January nineteen sixty three, accompanied by the aforementioned father of

833
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: the Summer of Love and big brother manager Chet Helms.

834
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: This did not go particularly well. She cut some blues

835
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: standards with Yorma Kacannon, who is Jefferson air playing guitars

836
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: and a fantastic traditional blues guitars. He studied with the

837
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 2: Reverend Gary Davis, who is you know, makes him a

838
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: primary source to like that actual pre war generation of

839
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: blues and musicians where a lot, a lot a lot

840
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 2: of sixties blues musicians weren't. But yeah, your mccona, tremendous

841
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 2: fingerstyle player listened to Hot Tuna.

842
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

843
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: Anyway, Janis was arrested for shoplifting the same year she

844
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: moved there, and she spent the next two years injecting

845
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: methamphetamine and developing her trademark fondness for Southern comfort. She

846
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: was down to a horrifying eighty eight pounds when her

847
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: friends eventually raised her in a bus fare to get

848
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: home to Port Arthur. Back in Port Arthur, Janis did

849
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: a one to eighty. She quit meth and drinking, She

850
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 2: got a beehive hairdoo, and re enrolled in college. She

851
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:36,959
Speaker 2: was still driving out to Austin to sing. She would

852
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: accompany herself on guitar. She even got engaged to a

853
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: guy that she met in San Francisco. He worked for

854
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 2: IBM in New York, but he visited her frequently enough

855
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: that they proposed, though he did break off the engagement

856
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: not long afterwards. Jani's also attended counseling sessions like psychiatric

857
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 2: counseling sessions in Beaumont, where she spilled to her therapist

858
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: that she feared she wasn't going to be able to

859
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: pursu sue a career as a singer without falling back

860
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: into drug and alcohol abuse pause for minor key turn

861
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: in backing music. He reassured her that that wasn't a

862
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: foregone conclusion, and in nineteen sixty five, she recorded seven

863
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: songs accompanying herself, singing on acoustic guitar. So Big Brother

864
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: manager chet Helms had seen Joplin perform at these gigs

865
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: in Texas and floated her as a front woman for

866
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: the band. This is what's hilarious to me is that

867
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: he literally just sent a buddy to Austin and was like,

868
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: go find Janis Joplin and bring her to San Francisco

869
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: and bring her to me.

870
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, bring me the head and body of Janis Joplin

871
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: and Laryx and there. Yeah.

872
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: That was supposedly when she was mullying joining the thirteenth

873
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 2: Floor Elevators, which honestly kind of would have preferred that. Yeah,

874
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: like not that I Don't Love You're Gonna Miss Me

875
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: and Kingdom of Heaven and like three other great thirteenth

876
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 2: Floor Elevator songs. But imagining a world where Janas was

877
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: fronting like the single greatest Texas garage rock band ever

878
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: and maybe Rocky Ericson didn't get institutionalized for ten years

879
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 2: is a fantastic what if. But yeah, so this guy

880
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: kidnapped and or coerced Janis to drive back from Austin

881
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: to San Francisco, which is like a fifteen to seventeen

882
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 2: hour drive, I'm guessing, and off they went. Janis told

883
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: her parents that she was still living in Austin, and

884
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 2: they only found out otherwise when she wrote them after

885
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 2: her first performance with Big Brother a year later in

886
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen sixty six. Chet Helms's decision to

887
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: push Janis Joplin on Big Brother was in no small

888
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: part due to the success of Grace Slick and the

889
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 2: Jefferson Airplane. As people have occasionally insisted on Colin, I

890
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 2: always love that when people add the extraneous s. There's

891
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: like old interviews where you can hear people talking about

892
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 2: like like you know, what the Cream were doing with

893
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: their extended improvisations, or like what the Black Sabbath was

894
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: doing with their down tuning. Anyway, the Pink Floyd, The

895
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd guitarist Sam Andrew Brother guitaris Sam Andrews in

896
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: two thousand and six interview that we were doing this

897
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: woman in favor to even.

898
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: Let her come sing with us. That's man too, there

899
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: we go.

900
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, she came in and she was dressed like a

901
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: little Texan. She's saying, real, well, what it was, but

902
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: it wasn't like, oh, we're bowled over. It was probably

903
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: a pretty equal meeting. She was real intelligent. Janis was,

904
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 2: and she always rose to the occasion. She sang the songs.

905
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 2: It wasn't like this moment of revelation that you would

906
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: like it to be like in a movie or something.

907
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,479
Speaker 2: It wasn't like, oh my god, now we've gone to heaven.

908
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 2: We've got Janis Joplin.

909
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: But you did.

910
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 2: I mean, she was good, but she had to learn

911
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 2: how to do that. It took her about a year

912
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 2: to really sing with an electric band. That's the most

913
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: fair statement that I think is in there. I mean,

914
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, dude, how would you feel? They were

915
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 2: the house band of the Avalon. They had like a

916
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: whole thing, and then like this woman shows up from

917
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: Austin that their manager kidnapped. Was like, here's your new singer.

918
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you be mildly miffed?

919
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: I would be until I heard her sing? Right, But

920
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 3: we don't have any either. Have you heard some of

921
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: those early ties. They're really good, the acoustic stuff. Yeah, yeah,

922
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 3: I have no doubt of that. But I agree that

923
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 3: learning to sing with an electric man is an entirely

924
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 3: different thing. Okay, especially back in those days when everyone

925
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 3: was just winging it this live sound.

926
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: You know.

927
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: The one thing that I've heard about Janis that was

928
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: a bit of a knock on her was and this

929
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 2: is just a just a complete digression. I didn't think

930
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: of anywhere to actually stick this was. Forget who was

931
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 2: talking about it. It might have been John Simon actually,

932
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: who was like early on she came off a little

933
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 2: bit too studied.

934
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it was him or someone else who was.

935
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: Talking about her in the studio when they were recording

936
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: Cheap Thrills or otherwise with some of the other bands,

937
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: where she would be like, it would come time to

938
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: do like a scream, and she would be like, well,

939
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 2: here's how Tina Turner would do it, or here's how

940
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 2: Bessie Smith would do it, or here's how Big Mama

941
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: Fulton would do it, and people were like, just do

942
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: it like Janis would do it.

943
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: You know. So there's a bit of a thing there

944
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: that I can like, I can understand. I mean, she

945
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: was finding her footing.

946
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 4: You know.

947
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: But yes, obviously the we were doing her a favor

948
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 2: doesn't smack particularly well.

949
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 3: No, No, I love that her parents didn't even know

950
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 3: that she left Texas and it had gone out there.

951
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 3: When eventually they did learn, they took a like a

952
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 3: family trip out there. I think they drove out there

953
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 3: in the summer of sixty seven, like mom, dad, brother, sister,

954
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 3: and her brother and sister told me about like how.

955
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: Fun that was. Her sister said, Dad just wanted to

956
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 1: make sure she was all right.

957
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: And Michael, her little brother, said, I remember thinking it

958
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 3: wasn't strange is here up on stage. They went to

959
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 3: go see her perform at the Avalon Ballroom, which was

960
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 3: like the other ballroom that wasn't the film r in

961
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: San Francisco and in the mid to late sixties, watching her,

962
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 3: it just seemed perfect.

963
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: It seemed like it's fitter and it did. At last,

964
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: she belongs. People were listening to her. I love this part.

965
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: This is my favorite, party said. I remember turning around

966
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: and watching the audience more than watching Janis. We'd heard

967
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: her sing a million times, so that wasn't an unexpected event.

968
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: But looking around, I thought, oh my god, she's really

969
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: reaching these people. The way she touched the rest of

970
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: the audience was very moving to me, as her brother,

971
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: imagine having Janice Joplin as your older sister. He would

972
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: talk about how cool it was as a kid like

973
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: struggling to be a hippie in Port Arthur, Texas, to

974
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: have Janice to look up to. And she really encourages

975
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: artistic side by sending him San Francisco concert posters, you know,

976
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: the crazy Wes Wilson swirly psychedelic graphics. And when he

977
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: painted a mural for a local youth club and sent

978
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: her a picture of it, she sent this like really

979
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: effusive letter back, Honey, just congratulations. I'm so proud. I

980
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: have so much love for you and your work. And

981
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: you can see this is in the scrap book that

982
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: they published a few years ago. It's just really really sweet.

983
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: And then for her younger sister, she was recommending books

984
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: like Rosemary's Baby or different Tolkien stuff and offering like

985
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: sisterly style tips from hair and makeup. I don't know,

986
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: I love that stuff. I love to hear about Janice

987
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: Joplin big sister. Yeah, that's that's a very heartwarming to

988
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: mention of her. Sometimes I wish I had a big sisters.

989
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 1: Is that a weird thing to admit on air?

990
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: No, all the big sisters that I knew were very

991
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: physically abusive though, like you were their siblings both, well,

992
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 2: I guess not all, but I'd like no, I had

993
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: one like big sister friend, like of a friend who

994
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: would just wail on us. I mean she was like

995
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 2: not even that much older, but she would just frequently

996
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 2: beat the shit out of me.

997
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: No wonder I was in love with her. Yeah, yeah,

998
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: I was in love with my friend's older sisters too,

999
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: but I went about it in a very different way. Anyway.

1000
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: As you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

1001
00:51:41,640 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: more too much information. After these messages, Big Brother and

1002
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: Janis reinstalled themselves in Laginitis, now the home of a

1003
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 2: famous microbrewery with a wide range of impressively discussing IPAs,

1004
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: where in Sam Gurley's guitarist Sam Gurley's words, they quote

1005
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: got into country living. He continued, it was a growing

1006
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 2: together thing for all of us. The rest of us

1007
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 2: were still new to each other, and Janis was a catalyst,

1008
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: brought people out, made it really easy to talk. Janis

1009
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: added to Rolling Stone in nineteen sixty eight, Chet told

1010
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: me the Big Brother was looking for a chick singer,

1011
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 2: so I thought I'd give it a try. I don't

1012
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: know what happened. I just exploded. I'd never sung like

1013
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: that before. I stood still and I sang simple. But

1014
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 2: you can't sing like that in front of a rock band,

1015
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: all that rhythm and volume going. You have to sing

1016
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: loud and move wild with all of that and back

1017
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 2: in you. It happened the first time, but then I

1018
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 2: got turned onto Otis Redding, and I just got back

1019
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: into it more than ever.

1020
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: Now.

1021
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 2: I don't know how to perform any other way. I've

1022
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: tried cooling myself off and not screaming, and I've walked

1023
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 2: off feeling like nothing. The band and Janis initially progressed together.

1024
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 2: Janis honed their rambling improvisations into more structured songs, and

1025
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: the band, largely through volume, helped her become the full

1026
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: fledged shower that people came to know her as things

1027
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: were off to her quick I'll be a bumpy start.

1028
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: Shortly after Janis joined, the band went to Chicago for

1029
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: four weeks of shows in August of nineteen sixty six,

1030
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: but found themselves literally stranding when the promoter, having not

1031
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 2: made enough from the engagement, couldn't pay them. Imagine being

1032
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 2: stranded in Chicago for a month in the sixties when

1033
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 2: you didn't like you had at best ten phone numbers

1034
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: that you had to pay and like a po box

1035
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: number to navigate the world with, Like how much would

1036
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: that suck? Chicago where they were gonna beat people's skulls

1037
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: in two years later and you're like from San Francisco.

1038
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: Good lord.

1039
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 2: So as a stopgap solution, Big Brother in Janis signed

1040
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: with Bob Shadd's record label, Mainstream Records. They recorded for

1041
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 2: the label in Chicago in September, again after being essentially

1042
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: alone in this city for a month.

1043
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: That's one way to get a record label. Please, we

1044
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: have no money? Who were stuck? Please? I need to eat? Yeah,

1045
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 1: they said it was not.

1046
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: I haven't actually listened to that because why would I.

1047
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 2: But they said it was a really bad fit because

1048
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: Bob Schad was like a jazz guy and he was like, what.

1049
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: Are you doing?

1050
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 2: Stop this at once. But eventually they got back to

1051
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 2: San Francisco and they resumed gigging. They eventually recorded two

1052
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: tracks in LA that were released by Mainstream Records as

1053
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: a poorly selling single, and then they went back to

1054
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: Los Angeles to record ten tracks in December of nineteen

1055
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: sixty six, which appeared on the band's debut album in

1056
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: August of nineteen sixty seven. Now, of course we move

1057
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: on to a section that I've titled hey Hey now

1058
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: now Mama, just hey hey now now a little little Mama.

1059
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: I listened to the Big The Cheap Throws album actually

1060
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 2: like earlier today, and I remember one of the things

1061
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 2: that I find so annoying about it, which is that

1062
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 2: the other guys in the band are just constantly yelling

1063
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,439
Speaker 2: something like a bunch of people watching like a bunch

1064
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 2: of drunk guys watching Janice sing on TV and ca.

1065
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: It sounds like they're in severe intestinal distress, is really

1066
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: the main Yeah, now we've got to talk about the Monterey.

1067
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 3: Pop Festival in June nineteen sixty seven. Smack at the

1068
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 3: top of the Summer of Love as you write, and

1069
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 3: that's one way I've never heard that described smack.

1070
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: Because of the heroinclaim so many lives. No, I actually

1071
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 2: didn't write that, but we were talking a lot about

1072
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: heroin overdoses earlier.

1073
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 3: So organized in a scant seven weeks by John Phillips

1074
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 3: or The Mamas and the Papas, record producer Lou Adler,

1075
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: event producer Alan Parsier, and Beale's publicist and Beach Boys publicist,

1076
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 3: I might add Derek Taylor. The festival is planned on

1077
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 3: the site of the long running Monterey Jazz Festival, an

1078
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 3: attempt to, as you say, graft some of that legitimacy

1079
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 3: onto rock, soul and psych music. Nason psych music, we

1080
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 3: should say, although it's now remembered as a watershed moment

1081
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 3: in the Capital t capital s the sixties, responsible for

1082
00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 3: breaking and showcasing hot quote unquote new musicians, Rabbi Shankar.

1083
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: Who is not actually new, in fact, he was in

1084
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: his forties he was performing there.

1085
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: My favorite thing about Monteri Bob is that everyone was

1086
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: so like earnestly, like knew that they should be into

1087
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 2: Rabbi Shankar, and it was like, oh, you know, he

1088
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: like indie music is very hip right now, dig get baby,

1089
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: that's my bag. That they were just tuning on stage

1090
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: and people like tentatively like started applauding the tuning of instruments.

1091
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: And didn't he say, like, if you like that, you'll

1092
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 1: love the real song.

1093
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, you know he couldn't keep it

1094
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 2: in his pants. And he was a god awful father

1095
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: to many many women. But he was well aware of

1096
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 2: what was happening to him at the moment.

1097
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: I yes, say yes.

1098
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 3: And then of course Jimmy Hendricks is there too, who'd

1099
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 3: been like grinding it out on the Chiplin circuit for

1100
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 3: what five.

1101
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: Years at very least by that point, So yeah, probably

1102
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: got ran out.

1103
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: It probably got literally chase playing. Little Richard's band in

1104
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: the Deep South was probably literally chased out at gunpoint

1105
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: from a lot of the cities.

1106
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the Who was huge in England for years.

1107
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, all these bands that were allegedly discovered at

1108
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 3: Monterey have been around for a while.

1109
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: I mean, same with you know, same with Freakin' well

1110
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:12,240
Speaker 1: sorry we oh yeah.

1111
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 3: Otis Redding was I mean Otis Reading I thought was

1112
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 3: fairly big already when he performed there.

1113
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: But well, but there's the question of I mean, what

1114
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: the the unspoken part of this is is literally always

1115
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: just new to white people. Yeah, because we're not that

1116
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 2: far from having a separate billboard chart for race records

1117
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: at this point in time. So like, obviously Otis Redding

1118
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 2: would go into you know wherever Georgia and sell out,

1119
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 2: but he had to perform in front of a bunch

1120
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: of white people in northern California for people to suddenly

1121
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 2: be like.

1122
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 3: Oh, Steve Miller bands, Jefferson, Airplane, he Mesa Keila, Country

1123
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 3: Joe on the Fish, cant Heat and the Birds also

1124
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 3: were there.

1125
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: Country Joe on the Fish are so damn funny to me.

1126
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

1127
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: Like people talked about that band like they were the

1128
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: fucking second. They're all over this era of music and

1129
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: day were like they did that stupid fixing to Die song, right,

1130
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: I mean, seriously, what is am I missing something about

1131
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: Country Joe and the Fish.

1132
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. I don't think so. Anyway,

1133
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: what can we say about uh, Steve Miller fairly serious

1134
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: blues guitarist. I know. Again, That's why I don't.

1135
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: I would be to say about Steve Miller Man Millers like, yeah,

1136
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: come on, dude. First of all, I love him because

1137
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 2: he's like, those songs are stupid, but they are also

1138
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: like some of the purest expressions of stupidity, and that's

1139
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 2: an art form.

1140
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: And he hates the rock and roll Hall of Fame. Yeah,

1141
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: can I hate him? Yes?

1142
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 3: My favorite Sea Miller story is Paul McCartney was recording

1143
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: with the Beatles. They're making Abbey Road, and it was

1144
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 3: right when everything was starting to come apart and they

1145
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 3: had a big fight in the studio about business stuff

1146
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 3: and everybody, but Paul stormed out and he was really depressed,

1147
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 3: and he was like slinking around the studio always and

1148
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 3: he just like heard in a studio like music and

1149
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 3: he popped his head in because he's Paul McCartney. And

1150
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 3: that's the kind of thing you can do if you're

1151
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 3: Paul McCartney, just pop your head into other people's sessions and.

1152
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: People are really happy to see you. And it was

1153
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: Steve Miller.

1154
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 3: He was recording in England in late nineteen sixty nine

1155
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 3: or like the summer of sixty nine, and they ended

1156
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: up doing a song together. They ended up just like

1157
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 3: jamming and recording a song called My Dark Hour with Paul.

1158
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: On drums and uh, and it's not bad. It was released.

1159
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: I think I'm sure it's bad.

1160
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: And they stayed friend Paul McCartney, fucking handsome millionaire to

1161
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: the stars.

1162
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: Ooh my dog.

1163
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 2: This live to Jonty Soul and that sounds a bit

1164
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 2: like the good old music holl Days my youth.

1165
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: It's called My Dog Hour. Blink like all right, it's

1166
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: not bad. It's got like. The drums are good.

1167
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 3: I almost think that the riffs from Fly Like an

1168
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 3: Eagle originated in that song.

1169
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: I could be wrong. I haven't heard it in a while.

1170
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 2: Its fin Like an Eagle Ghost fucks so hard, those

1171
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 2: fucking mogues like ugh, that's like I want to listen

1172
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 2: to that remastered in like an him Fox Hide point one.

1173
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: I just want the Maxell commercial.

1174
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: I want to be the guy in the chair while

1175
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: the since from Fly Like an Eagle rearrange of my guts.

1176
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: All right, give me a second, Liens. It's not bad. No,

1177
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: it's a cool jam. Where the fun were we?

1178
01:00:59,680 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 4: All right?

1179
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 3: So we talked earlier about how the Monterey Pop Festival

1180
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 3: was sort of a sea change in pop music.

1181
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: In Oh No, you know you had this whole the

1182
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: also ran the no shows. Yeah, that's what getting in them.

1183
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 2: Okay, Jesus Christ, I'm so sorry you had me chasing

1184
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 2: down B sides with Paul McCartney.

1185
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: Damn, let me live partially.

1186
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 3: You had, like we just mentioned, all these bands that

1187
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,919
Speaker 3: white kids from northern California you'd never seen before.

1188
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: But also notable were the huge stars of the day

1189
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: that were no shows.

1190
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 3: You know, they always say that this was the time

1191
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 3: in the sixties where the headquarters of American music shifted

1192
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 3: from Los Angeles to San Francisco. And probably the best

1193
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 3: example of that is the fact that the Beach Boys

1194
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 3: backed out at the last minute of the Monterey Pop Festival.

1195
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: This was supposed to be their big.

1196
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 3: Hour, coming into their own as a serious pop band.

1197
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 3: That because Brian Wilson had been hard at work on

1198
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 3: his Smile album, which was going to be his follow

1199
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: up to his Pet Sounds Orchestral Meister work, and he'd

1200
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 3: spent I think at the time more time than anyone

1201
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: had ever spent recording this album in a modular style.

1202
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 3: They just had a huge hit with good vibrations that fall,

1203
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 3: which was assembled in the way that like movie directors

1204
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: put films together, instead of just doing what most musicians

1205
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 3: at the time, they would just sit down and get

1206
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: in the studio and play a song while the guy

1207
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 3: up behind the glass press record. He was recording little

1208
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 3: like ten second fragments that he would just assemble together

1209
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 3: at the tape desk, recorded in something like some phenomenal

1210
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,959
Speaker 3: number of studios when I say, like six or seven

1211
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 3: studios in La and no one had ever done that before.

1212
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 3: That seems like kind of a standard thing to do now,

1213
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,919
Speaker 3: especially in a post hip hop world where you weave

1214
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 3: together all these sounds from disparate times in different places

1215
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 3: and different mediums. But now he was the first one

1216
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: to do that. It was hard enough with one song

1217
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: with good vibrations, with the most expensive single ever made,

1218
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 3: and it took a months to do it, something like

1219
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 3: six months to try to do it without the eight

1220
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 3: of any kind of digital software to help them like

1221
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 3: arrange all this stuff over the length of a full

1222
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: album almost killed Brian. I mean, that was what basically

1223
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 3: led him to have it sidelined him pretty much for

1224
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 3: the rest of his life. I would argue that was

1225
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 3: kind of the last time he ever tried one hundred percent.

1226
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 3: And it was supposed to be issued around May of

1227
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 3: sixty seven, and their appearance the Monterey Pop Festival was

1228
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 3: going to be their big like you know, this was

1229
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 3: worth it, their coronation, their coronation as like the Hippus

1230
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 3: band in America. And when he pulled the plug on

1231
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 3: his album Smile and basically retreated from the spotlight, the

1232
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 3: band backed out of their performance at Monterey and their

1233
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 3: reputation really never recovered.

1234
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 2: And he ate a lot of burgers, and he ate.

1235
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: A lot of burgers, a lot, a lot of burgers.

1236
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1237
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 3: So the Beach Boys were probably the most consequential no

1238
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 3: show of the Monterey Pop Festival, Brian, although he was

1239
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 3: on the board of the festival.

1240
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 1: You have people like Paul McCartney.

1241
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 2: That's the kind of the funniest thing to me about

1242
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: it is that like, uh, no, I was recording I've

1243
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 2: recorded a teenage symphony to God.

1244
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: Okay, that's nice, but okay, man, just well frustrated.

1245
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 2: How frustrating it must it have been for like black

1246
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: people and women to deal with any straight white man

1247
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 2: who is an artist in the nineteen sixties. Okay, man, sorry,

1248
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 2: your symphony to God didn't work out or whatever. I

1249
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 2: guess we'll all just pick up the pieces like we

1250
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 2: always do. I know he's your boy, his sadness, teenage

1251
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 2: symphonies to God.

1252
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: He had lots of problems. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1253
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: I know. Jesus Christ's where Iikle tells Brian Wilson, some

1254
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: people have real problems.

1255
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, come on, sad man in a sandbox in a

1256
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 3: baby cranp piano.

1257
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry, you were at the top of a food

1258
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 2: chain in an era of unprecedented prosperity in the music industry,

1259
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 2: and and what you couldn't get the thereman sounds right,

1260
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, retreat out of public life for twenty years, sure, man,

1261
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 2: but no, totally.

1262
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: It's great. So glad I have to keep hearing about

1263
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: you because of it. That was mean. There's a new book,

1264
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: oral history, the Making of Smile, that just came out

1265
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: by the great Beach Boys historian David Leif just came

1266
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: out like that.

1267
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 2: Job you can have. Never mind the fact that libraries

1268
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 2: don't get funded. The NYPD gobbled up New York's entire

1269
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 2: library budget, But no, Beach Boys and historian.

1270
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: Is a job you can have. He's old, He's sorry.

1271
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: I smell a downvote coming, not even a downvote. I

1272
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 2: smell a one star review coming.

1273
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: We got a lot of five star reviews for oops,

1274
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: all digressions. I did hear that.

1275
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, folks, Glad you liked that.

1276
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: Very very kind, very very kind. Sees.

1277
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 3: The Beach Boys didn't appear at the Monterey Pop Festival.

1278
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 3: Neither did Donovan for some reason of drugs.

1279
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was the funniest thing is that like Donovan,

1280
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 2: these all these other three guys like these Lovin, Spoonful,

1281
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: Donovan both missed it because of drug investigations. And the

1282
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: Kinks really got.

1283
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: Over the US. Yeah, oh yeah.

1284
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: The Rolling Stones had it so bad that they had

1285
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 2: to go become tax exiles. The Kinks were banned by

1286
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 2: the American Musicians Union for like two years during the

1287
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 2: peak of British Mania, like over what. I don't even

1288
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 2: remember what the inciting incident it was. It was just

1289
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 2: they were too British, they were too mean, Like what

1290
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: got them banned?

1291
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 3: I think it was related to the fact that their

1292
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 3: managers were really inexperienced, and I think they may have

1293
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 3: inadvertently pissed off the union, yeah basically, And I don't

1294
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 3: know the specifics of it, but I think it had

1295
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: to do with the fact that their management quite possibly

1296
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 3: just didn't grease the right palms. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Anyway,

1297
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 3: So anyway, those people did not play at Monterroy Pop

1298
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 3: the they brother in the Holding Company featuring Janis Joplin.

1299
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: Did twice twice.

1300
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 3: Bill Graham, the legendary godfather of the San Francisco music scene,

1301
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 3: who ran the Filmore Auditorium and Winterland, and I'm sure

1302
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 3: he had his fingers and all sorts of other I

1303
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 3: wish I didn't use that phrase.

1304
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I think he was the manager for Jefferson

1305
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: Airplane too. He was evolved in all. He was an octopus.

1306
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: The man was an octopus. The man was an a.

1307
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 3: Yes, he remembers Janis being obsessed with Otis readings, he

1308
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 3: told Rolling Stone after she died. Otis was there for

1309
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 3: three nights at the old Filmore Auditorium, and all the

1310
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 3: local groups wanted to play with him. We we had

1311
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 3: a different group each night. But the thing about Janis

1312
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 3: was that each night she asked me ahead of time.

1313
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 3: She said, Bill, please, can I come to early before

1314
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 3: anybody else so I can be sure to see him?

1315
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 3: Because she idolized Otis. And every night she had come

1316
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 3: into the ballroom at six o'clock and sit herself down

1317
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 3: on the main floor, right in the middle, right in

1318
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 3: front of the stage. She was there before we even

1319
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 3: opened the building. So just Janis in an empty auditorium

1320
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 3: watching Otis Redding do sound checks at the film wore

1321
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 3: That's adorable. I love that Janis and big Brother in

1322
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 3: the Holding Company apparently followed a tepid canned heat canned lukewarm.

1323
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 1: Ah, God, it was right there, yeah.

1324
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 3: Who opened the festival's Saturday performances as filmmaker Da Pennybaker,

1325
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 3: who was on hand to document the weekend remember the

1326
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 3: Rolling Stone in twenty nineteen. The first time I saw

1327
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 3: her was when she came out for the first time

1328
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 3: and sang, Paul and Chain, We've been told we couldn't

1329
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 3: film it because her agent wanted money or something.

1330
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: Sam Andrew, one of the members, a big brother in

1331
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 1: the Holding.

1332
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 3: Company, who I don't care to learn what he played,

1333
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 3: because I don't think they're a good band, reinforced this

1334
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 3: in a two thousand and six interview. Our then manager,

1335
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 3: Julius Carpen was telling us, no, he's our manager. So

1336
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:51,879
Speaker 3: we said, let's go ask Albert Grossman. He knows everything.

1337
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: He manages Bob Dylan, Peter, Paul and Mary and Joan Biaz.

1338
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 1: He knows. So he went to him and said, Albert,

1339
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: what should we do?

1340
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 2: And the air suddenly got colder in the room, and

1341
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 2: the darkness started encroaching in at the edges of their vision.

1342
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 2: As Albert Grossman turned his horrific gaze upon them, and.

1343
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: He said, you should be in the film. Definitely. The

1344
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: kids should stay in the picture. We haven't done it.

1345
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: We haven't done a cigar chomping executive in way too long.

1346
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna be talking about it. We're gonna be

1347
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 2: talking about Clive Davis.

1348
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: And Albert Grossman. Albert Grossman is truly one of the prototypical.

1349
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 3: He's up there with Louis b. Mayer in terms of

1350
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,759
Speaker 3: industry scumbags. He said, you should be in the film, definitely.

1351
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 3: So after their initial afternoon performance, Janis and Big Brother

1352
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,719
Speaker 3: performed again, this time for the benefit of Da Penny

1353
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 3: Baker's cameras, and they were in the final documentary go on, Oh,

1354
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 3: this is.

1355
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: The best part. Favor one of my favorite parts. I

1356
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 1: actually sent this as a reaction gift to somebody recently.

1357
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 3: After Janis performs, they cut to Mama Cass in the

1358
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 3: audience just murmuring wow.

1359
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: And it's great.

1360
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I think occasionally throughout the performance they just

1361
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 3: cut to her and her mouth is just hanging wide open.

1362
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 2: It must have been so cool to get those moments

1363
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 2: in like a pre you know. Now I look at

1364
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 2: my phone and there's forty six of those moments queued

1365
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,759
Speaker 2: up for me. Yeah, but like imagine just like getting

1366
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 2: that in real time and being like uh oh, like

1367
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 2: I such a mix of like we're boned and also

1368
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 2: like complete mutual at like just be like artistic respect

1369
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 2: and just being like like this tectonic shock of just

1370
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: being like holy shit, would I just watch you know?

1371
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 1: It's funny.

1372
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 3: I don't know if Mama Cass and Janie had much

1373
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 3: of a relationship or a friendship, like I would assume

1374
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 3: they were very different.

1375
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:42,759
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, did you read the next paragraph?

1376
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 2: Oh?

1377
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: Emphasizing the Los Angeles San Francisco divide, Pennymaker said that

1378
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: quote Janis was the most interesting to shoot because I

1379
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: had not been prepared for her at all.

1380
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 3: She was from San Francisco and I've been hanging out

1381
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 3: with the Las. There was this thing between them. They

1382
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 3: had to sniff each other out of litle little bit.

1383
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 3: There was a feeling that they weren't really good friends.

1384
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 3: It was wonderful to watch them sit and watch each

1385
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 3: other play. When she first stood there and belted that

1386
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 3: thing out, I thought, Jesus, this is incredible.

1387
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1388
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 3: I think it was like a I mean especially with

1389
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 3: Janis in particular. I think it was like an acid

1390
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 3: culture and a drinking.

1391
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: Did you read the following paragraph?

1392
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 2: No, because this was.

1393
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 1: How diould you read the following paragraph?

1394
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 4: Well?

1395
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: I just so rarely get to pull that one on you.

1396
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 1: It's funny that it happened all this from something I

1397
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: wrote originally, so I didn't think I had to tend

1398
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: to add it about ten pages. Anyway, you did.

1399
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 2: Guitarist Sam Andrews said as much in a two thousand

1400
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: and six interview. The big story in Monterey was there

1401
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 2: were all these people from LA who were really professional.

1402
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: They're really slick, and they've got a lot of money,

1403
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 2: and they know what's going on. They know everything about

1404
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 2: show business, like John Phillips with the Mamas and the

1405
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 2: Poplar Papa's and Lou Adler.

1406
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 1: They know everything.

1407
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 2: And they thought, what are these people doing up in

1408
01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: San Francisco. There's something going on up there. We keep

1409
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 2: hearing about it. Maybe we should humor them and have

1410
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 2: this festival near them and invite them down. We'll be professional,

1411
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 2: we'll show them what a professional event is. We'll show

1412
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 2: them what's going on. Andrew continued. They patronized, well, this

1413
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 2: is a bit of an idiosyncratic phrasing. He says, they

1414
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 2: patronized the south of California towards the north, so maybe

1415
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 2: that there's like an air in Comma that should be

1416
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 2: They patronized Comma the south of California towards the north.

1417
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: He said that southern LA people.

1418
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 2: Were patronizing towards northern California people. Jesus Christ quote. They

1419
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 2: came up and put on this festival. They said, oh,

1420
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 2: here's a big brother. We'll put them on in the

1421
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 2: daytime when it doesn't really count. Yeah, but the mamas

1422
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 2: and the papas, they are going to play at night

1423
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 2: when all the spotlights are on. We went on, and

1424
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 2: the other San Francisco bands went on, and the Los

1425
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,560
Speaker 2: Angeles people were just stunned and astounded. They had no

1426
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 2: idea what we've been doing. And then they saw it

1427
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: in front of them on stage. They saw they were

1428
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 2: going to have to change their whole thing. They were

1429
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,719
Speaker 2: playing with these kind of little nursery songs, and Janis

1430
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 2: totally astounded them. That is a s yeah, because that

1431
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 2: is mama's the papa's compared to Janis. That's what she

1432
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 2: makes them sound like.

1433
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of the supposed headliners were studio bands.

1434
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 3: I mean, Mama's and Papa's were probably, next to the

1435
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 3: Beach Boys, the best example of an LA studio band

1436
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: that I can think of, and it didn't really translate

1437
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:23,839
Speaker 3: to a live performance. Sure, Yeah, Mama's and the Papas

1438
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 3: following Jimmy Hendrix.

1439
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, that pairing is sort of sums it

1440
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 1: up for me.

1441
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean this is what does get me. Like,

1442
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 2: this is why I still have some vestige of affinity

1443
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: for like this San Francisco thing, because, like you know,

1444
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 2: before it became this commodified and packaged product, it was

1445
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 2: such a breath of fresh air for these people who

1446
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 2: were like, uh, well, you know you kind of you

1447
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 2: make bands in the studio, and then they completely I

1448
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 2: mean that's sort of the big crazy innovation of not

1449
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 2: innovation because obviously black people have been doing it for decades,

1450
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 2: but like that was sort of what San Francisco did

1451
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 2: that really flip the script on live music in the seventies.

1452
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,680
Speaker 2: Was it was like not suddenly about, well, we have

1453
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 2: a record to sell, so we might as well perform live.

1454
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 2: It was suddenly about there's this incredible live energy happening

1455
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 2: how can we make money off of that in a.

1456
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,640
Speaker 1: Way that how can we get control of that?

1457
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 2: You know, because it was I mean we've talked about

1458
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:22,680
Speaker 2: this before on the show, where it was like at

1459
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 2: certain phases of the record industry, man, they didn't even

1460
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 2: care if the guy who sang the song was the

1461
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 2: one performing it. They would literally be like, you're in

1462
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, like get out there and sing this song

1463
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:37,600
Speaker 2: and will lie you know. So this idea of rejiggering

1464
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,320
Speaker 2: the entire structure of the music industry around live performance

1465
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 2: and around like things that were happening in the moment

1466
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 2: and dragging it back into God help me, the Jim

1467
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 2: Morrison like Dionysian theater like aspect of it. That was

1468
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 2: That is really what's so groundbreaking about It wasn't the

1469
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 2: music warmed over blues and noodlely bullshit. It was just

1470
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 2: this idea that you could you suddenly replacing these live

1471
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 2: moments before a little piece of plastic that you went

1472
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 2: down to the shop and bought every week, you know,

1473
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 2: you know, man, like really they were innovators, man.

1474
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 3: But I mean The Grateful Dead is the prototypical example

1475
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 3: of like, yes, San Francisco and like name three songs

1476
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:22,679
Speaker 3: that they record.

1477
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, oh that first Grateful Dead record is

1478
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 2: a atrocity. Yeah, and the very first self titled one.

1479
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 2: I mean that's why they don't even you know, it's

1480
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 2: so they're so fascinating because like Live Dead is sixty

1481
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 2: nine or whatever, and that's like the first like that's

1482
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,759
Speaker 2: like the er text of like Grateful Dive live documents.

1483
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 2: But pig Pen doesn't even play keyboards on that. Like

1484
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 2: this Tom khn Stanton who then wasn't in the band

1485
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 2: as they progressed, you know, I don't think he plays

1486
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 2: on American He might play on American Beauty. I don't

1487
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 2: know that he plays on working bands. And then by

1488
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 2: the time it's Live seventy two, it's a completely different

1489
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 2: It's it's Godow, the Godhaws have already moved in. So

1490
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 2: it's just like to their detriment, they never even caught

1491
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 2: up with what the live's on record. The live of

1492
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 2: the record's never even caught up remotely with what was

1493
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 2: happening live.

1494
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1495
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 2: I think that's just an interesting read that doesn't get platformed.

1496
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 2: So much of this idea that like the suits were

1497
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 2: put on their back foot by what was actually happening,

1498
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 2: which should happen more often? And then Clive Davis came

1499
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 2: in and waved a bunch of money around everything up.

1500
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 3: Yes, it was in Monterey that Janis would meet two

1501
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 3: people who would become her surrogate father figures who would

1502
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 3: also contribute to her death.

1503
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: So your mileage may.

1504
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 2: Faery whichever side of the death arrows drive if you're

1505
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 2: a Freudian, if you're Youngian in.

1506
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,480
Speaker 1: Our way, don't all of our surrogate fathers almost.

1507
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 2: Kill us sometimes literally your real father?

1508
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, talked about Marvin Gay on the show, right, Yeah.

1509
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this leads us into a section I've decided

1510
01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 2: to call Come on, squares, now, get up and boogie

1511
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:01,639
Speaker 2: to this old boogie downjive heat boogie.

1512
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: Lady.

1513
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:05,759
Speaker 2: Albert Grossman belongs to a mount rushmore of cartoonishly evil,

1514
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:08,679
Speaker 2: if effective rock and roll managers. Next to Colonel Tom Parker,

1515
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 2: led Zeppla manager, Peter Grant, an Eagles manager, and ex

1516
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 2: ticketmaster CEO Irving angis off about whom Don Henley, of

1517
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 2: all people, once said he may be satan, but he's

1518
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 2: our satan. Grossman most famous for repend Dylan who dumped

1519
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 2: him after he found out that Grossman had servetipitiously assigned

1520
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 2: fifty percent of Dylan's publishing rights.

1521
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 1: Oh Albert was a brutal negotiator.

1522
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 2: Who fearlessly went to bat for his clients against promoters

1523
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:37,879
Speaker 2: and record label executives, while also similarly fearlessly helping himself

1524
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 2: to the largesse, fringe benefits, and liquid assets of his

1525
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 2: artists whenever he could. Aside from launching Peter, Paul and

1526
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 2: Mary and at some point John by his aunt Jernis Joplin,

1527
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,640
Speaker 2: Grossman also managed John Lee Hooker, Odetta Todd Rudgren, the

1528
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 2: band Gordon Lightfoot, and the short lived but influential Electric Flag, who,

1529
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 2: as you correctly note, whip Yeah they're great. Honestly, in

1530
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 2: a more just world, would have had the career that

1531
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 2: the Cream had. Yeah, Electric Flags, interracial band. Everybody slapped

1532
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 2: in it. Buddy Miles went on to.

1533
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: It.

1534
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Bloomfield, the Jewish intellectual guitar hero that this

1535
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 2: country should have had instead of Eric Clapton listened to,

1536
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 2: never listened to the I think it's actually might be

1537
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 2: at Monterey when when Bloomfield's doing his like wrap to

1538
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 2: the crowd where he's like very obviously wired on speed,

1539
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: but just like so excited to be there, and he's like, yeah, cats,

1540
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 2: you know this is your happening it and you.

1541
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: Gotta dig it because it really does like it's a trip.

1542
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 2: Man Like it's just so enthusiastic. And then they go

1543
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 2: into a tune called Spodiodeo drinking Wine. But he is

1544
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 2: he whips man. I mean, Bloomfield is one of the

1545
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 2: true like undersung electric guitarists of that generation. Again like

1546
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 2: should have everything Eric Clapton does, minus the Dead Kid.

1547
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:06,799
Speaker 1: He backed, he backed Dylan at Newport.

1548
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 2: He's, well, he's on parts of Highway sixty one, but

1549
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 2: he backed Dylan at Newport.

1550
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,879
Speaker 1: Famously, I think he's on Michael wrong Stone too. Yeah yeah, yeahah.

1551
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 2: Anyway, by the time Grossman got to Janie, he had

1552
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 2: been a manager for nearly ten years, and the sort

1553
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 2: of narrative around this part of his career that he

1554
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 2: was spreading himself a little thin. That, however, did not

1555
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:28,519
Speaker 2: stop him from latching onto Janis after her performance and

1556
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 2: promising her the world starting in motion the chain reaction

1557
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 2: of her leaving big brother and eventually dying. The pair

1558
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 2: did have a cute relationship at first. Big Brother guitarist

1559
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 2: Sam Andrew wrote in two thousand that Albert and Janice

1560
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 2: developed a tender relationship. They touched each other a lot,

1561
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 2: in a very loving and unself conscious manner. She would

1562
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 2: give him a massage when there was a lot of stress,

1563
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 2: and he would often have his arm around her. But

1564
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 2: Japlin confidant Maya Friedman, author of the Janis biography buried alive,

1565
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 2: told Musician magazine after Grossman's death that Albert had been

1566
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 2: quote unwilling to give Janis the kind of direction that

1567
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: could have made a difference in saving her life. She

1568
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:07,679
Speaker 2: added to Rolling Stone after Joplin died that the capital

1569
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:11,679
Speaker 2: J Janis image she sometimes cultivated and sometimes had forced

1570
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 2: on her by people like Grossman and yes, Clive Davis,

1571
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 2: this wild and fancy free no given blue showder was

1572
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:22,720
Speaker 2: not entirely accurate. Myra said, I think Janice knew that

1573
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: wasn't really where she was at. Maybe part of her

1574
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,599
Speaker 2: believed that, but I think the most honest part didn't.

1575
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 2: She wasn't a conservative girl, That's ridiculous, but she had

1576
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 2: a lot of needs that were just like everyone else's.

1577
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 2: I had met her at the Chelsea Hotel. J always

1578
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 2: stayed there. When she was in New York, she'd been

1579
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:37,719
Speaker 2: reading a book.

1580
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: I saw.

1581
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: It was Look Homeward Angel by Thomas Wolfe. She told

1582
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 2: me she read it a lot. But don't tell anybody

1583
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 2: what is.

1584
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 3: Reading Being literate at to do with being like a

1585
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 3: badass wild and free blues showder that makes me send,

1586
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 3: I know.

1587
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 1: Such was the tenor of the times. Yes. The other

1588
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:01,679
Speaker 1: complicating factor in Janis's professional life, Clive Davis, also appeared

1589
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: at Monterey.

1590
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Clive Davis. Yes, yes, how many bodies

1591
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 2: on old Clive? Wait, we'll get there, Okay, Sorry chomping

1592
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 2: at the bit a little.

1593
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,640
Speaker 1: Clive told Music Connection in twenty nineteen at Monterey, I

1594
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: was really just getting my feet wet when Janis took

1595
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 1: the stage. It was an unknown group.

1596
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 3: To me, totally big brother in the holding company, and

1597
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,759
Speaker 3: right from the outset it was something you could never forget.

1598
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:31,840
Speaker 3: She took the stage dominated and was absolutely breathtick, hypnotic,

1599
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 3: compelling and soul shaking. You saw someone who not only

1600
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 3: had the goods, but was doing something that no one else.

1601
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: Was doing, And I thought I could make a lot

1602
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: of money off that.

1603
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 3: He continued so I quietly obviously had to negotiate the

1604
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 3: Big Brother contract out of Mainstream Records, the record contract

1605
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 3: they signed when they were.

1606
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 1: Stranded into Chicago. It wasn't that Albert Grossman was their

1607
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 1: manager at the beginning.

1608
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 4: He was not.

1609
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 3: He ultimately came in as their manager. But it was

1610
01:21:57,840 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 3: after he came in that we came up with a

1611
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 3: solution buying their contract. He added a billboard in twenty nineteen,

1612
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 3: I bought their contract for two hundred thousand dollars. We

1613
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 3: agree that half of it would be unrecoupable by Columbia

1614
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 3: and half would be repaid through the band's royalties. In

1615
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 3: that same article, the musician Johnny rivers Are also performed

1616
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,760
Speaker 3: that Monterey said it Monterey, I saw Clive Davis jump

1617
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 3: out of his seat. I was standing in the wings

1618
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 3: of the stage. And after that, man, he was on

1619
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 3: Channis like a cheap suit.

1620
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Clive added to me in twenty twenty two that

1621
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 1: after hearing.

1622
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 2: Janna, I want to go ahead and say give I'm

1623
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,560
Speaker 2: giving you an out because Clive Davis.

1624
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,719
Speaker 1: Knows who you are and where you live. It's fine.

1625
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 1: I don't think he knows where he lives at this point. Oh,

1626
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 1: I have no reason to assume that he is in

1627
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 1: ill health right now.

1628
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 2: I mean, he's one hundred and seventy years old and

1629
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:52,840
Speaker 2: evil i've him. I don't care like if he is.

1630
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:56,120
Speaker 2: And I did I tell you what I remember your

1631
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 2: Clive Davis story, Yes, but I don't know if you've recounted.

1632
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: It on this I don't think I have. So.

1633
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,920
Speaker 3: Clive dam was, for some reason I've inexplicably interviewed like

1634
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 3: maybe seven times.

1635
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: I don't know why. That's He's probably the person I've

1636
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: interviewed the most.

1637
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 3: They're always offering him to me, and I'm like, cool,

1638
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 3: tell me the Whitney story again. First time I interviewed him,

1639
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 3: it was him and Aretha Franklin on stools in front

1640
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 3: of me, which was crazy, but to be honest with you,

1641
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 3: Aretha kind of took up my view. I wasn't looking

1642
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:26,599
Speaker 3: at Clive when Aretha was right there.

1643
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 1: She sang to me. She sang a little bit of

1644
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 1: Rolling in the Deep by Adele, which is weird, which

1645
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting.

1646
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 3: Well, she was covering it at that way she was covering,

1647
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 3: but it was she was like demonstrating a point, and

1648
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 3: to demonstrate that point she sang a line or two

1649
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 3: from it, like, you know, six feet away from me,

1650
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 3: which was which was fun for me.

1651
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it was over. I think I was

1652
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 1: interviewing her.

1653
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 3: It was like a thing on camera and I was

1654
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 3: behind the camera reading questions, and it was over. Clive

1655
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 3: like waves me over, and I approached him and he

1656
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 3: waves me to come closer, and I do keep coming closer.

1657
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 2: Jordan thinking some great secret about that. Clive recognizes him.

1658
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 2: He's like, Jordan, you've put so much work into interviewing me.

1659
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 2: At this point, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you some

1660
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 2: advice about this this filthy world, this music industry.

1661
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: He keeps. So this happens like three or four times,

1662
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 1: Come closer, Come closer, Come closer, And I'm like, I

1663
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 1: literally put my head down because I think he's gonna

1664
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 1: like whisper something to me. And he uses me as

1665
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: a human crush, and he puts his hand on my

1666
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: shoulders so we can get off his stool, and then

1667
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 1: he pats me on the back literally and walks away.

1668
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:39,519
Speaker 1: No words were exchanged, but then I entered a bunch

1669
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 1: after that, So now you know how it felt to

1670
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,839
Speaker 1: be a woman. Yeah, Wow, yeah maybe, yeah.

1671
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 2: In his management, yes, yes, anyway, how many bodies does

1672
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 2: Clive have on him?

1673
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? Talk about this woman. I don't think I realized.

1674
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 1: I never really put this together until listening to you.

1675
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know this fucker has has the music

1676
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 2: industry like you know, stranglehold. I mean, there's all this

1677
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 2: important to remember that, you know, he was also Ditty's buddy,

1678
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 2: which by literal virtue of Clive as Davis being like,

1679
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,560
Speaker 2: I don't know where I am. He's successfully managed to

1680
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 2: avoid any of that. But trust me, that fucker knows

1681
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:18,720
Speaker 2: enough to land him in bars. But yeah, so if

1682
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 2: we're buying, if we're accepting this idea that, you know,

1683
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 2: this sort of loosely constructed narrative that Clive signs Janis

1684
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 2: and then quickly becomes more obsessed with Aretha, And we're

1685
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 2: also accepting the narrative that Clive signed Whitney and then

1686
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:36,840
Speaker 2: stop paying so much attention to her when she became

1687
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 2: inconvenient for him. And we're also accepting the notion that

1688
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 2: Clive got TLC signed to Arista and more or less

1689
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:54,560
Speaker 2: blacklisted them and was responsible for their bankruptcy. And we

1690
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 2: could probably throw Lisa left Eye's body on there as well.

1691
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,719
Speaker 2: That's a but you know, just do yourself a favorite.

1692
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:09,479
Speaker 2: Google things like Angie Stone, Clive Davis, who maybe was

1693
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 2: blacklisted by him for not towing the party line entirely.

1694
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:15,640
Speaker 2: If you look up a lot of his dealings with

1695
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 2: as part of Arista when he was running with Babyface

1696
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 2: and a lot of the R and B guys, it

1697
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 2: doesn't really paint the best picture of this rich white

1698
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:26,479
Speaker 2: guy swornen around.

1699
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson had a lot to say about him that

1700
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 1: wasn't nice. I don't have anything. Do you have? Do

1701
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 1: you have that?

1702
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:33,720
Speaker 2: I mean, someone literally called him I forget. I think

1703
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: it might have been God. What was this woman's name?

1704
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 2: I was doing some research about this. Yeah, Angie Stone

1705
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:42,720
Speaker 2: cut him off because of how she alleged that he

1706
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 2: treated Alicia Keys when he signed her. He made Kelly

1707
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 2: Clarkson cry yes allegedly, yes, yes. She said that he

1708
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 2: didn't think she possessed the ability to write songs. She

1709
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,799
Speaker 2: wrote a song for her second album, Breakaway, called because

1710
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,400
Speaker 2: of You, and she said in an interview with Variety,

1711
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 2: I was told that was a song because it didn't rhyme.

1712
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:06,720
Speaker 2: A group of men thought it was okay to sit

1713
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 2: around the young woman and bully her. I was told

1714
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:10,639
Speaker 2: to shut up and sing five.

1715
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 3: Davis in his memoir described her as bursting into quote

1716
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 3: hysterical sobbing over their disagreement on including Since You've Been

1717
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 3: Gone on her second album. Clarkson rejected the notion that

1718
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 3: she was hysterically sobbing, and she wrote on a blog post,

1719
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 3: I refused to be bullied, and I just have to

1720
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 3: clear up his memory lapses and misinformation for myself and

1721
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 3: my fans. It feels like a violation. Growing up is

1722
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 3: awesome because you learn you don't have to coward to anyone,

1723
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:35,759
Speaker 3: even Clive Davis.

1724
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this woman n Jaguar Wright, who's a songwriter. I mean,

1725
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 2: she lumped him in with Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein. She

1726
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 2: called him one of the most dangerous people she's ever met. Oh, sorry,

1727
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 2: that was ditty she called that. But she said that

1728
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 2: Clive Davis was largely responsible for protecting Diddy for thirty

1729
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 2: years or so. The guy she said that too, called

1730
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:02,240
Speaker 2: her a conspiracy theorist. But I think she did call

1731
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 2: him the devil. Clive Davis. Yeah, I don't know, man.

1732
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 2: A lot of it's not actionable. A lot of it's

1733
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 2: hush hush, but it's here's a okay. But let's just say,

1734
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:15,839
Speaker 2: let's keep it in the boardroom, let's keep it professional.

1735
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 2: Let's keep it to things that have actual government investigations

1736
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:24,120
Speaker 2: into them, such as cocaine and heroin trafficking and being

1737
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 2: in bed with the mob. Did you know that Clive

1738
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:31,559
Speaker 2: Davis was once fired from Colombia three years after Janis died.

1739
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 1: I knew that.

1740
01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:34,759
Speaker 3: I thought it was because he was accused of taking

1741
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 3: corporate money to pay for his son's barmits. There was

1742
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 3: some trumped up thing that he later claimed was rejected. Well,

1743
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 3: that's exactly right. That is one thing that he did do.

1744
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 2: But this was related to investigation of one of his

1745
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 2: buddies at Columbia, a guy named David Winshaw, who is

1746
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 2: vice president of AR at Columbia, Winshaw was referred to

1747
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 2: as Clive's royal procureur slash Clive's pimp slash doctor fuel Good.

1748
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 2: So basically, in February of seventy three, there was a

1749
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:12,799
Speaker 2: reported fifteen million dollar drug bust in Montreal that involved

1750
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 2: this woman named Francine Berger, who was a receptionist at

1751
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 2: Columbia and a guy named Pascali Falcone forty one, who

1752
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:25,719
Speaker 2: was identified himself as a manager of two Nashville based

1753
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:30,639
Speaker 2: Columbia acts. Falcone has ties to the Genovesei crime family

1754
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 2: and was supposedly in possession of papers that implicated this guy,

1755
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 2: David Winshaw in like essentially international drug dealing facilitated by

1756
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,559
Speaker 2: Columbia records in the music industry. That's all in Neila Times,

1757
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:46,840
Speaker 2: that's all in Rolling Stone. That's all just out there.

1758
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 2: But here's an illustrative and hilarious anecdote from this Rolling

1759
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,559
Speaker 2: Stone arcle I got all this from. So again we're

1760
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 2: recapping Clive Davis's fixer at Columbia was part of the

1761
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 2: Genevezi crime family and involved in a a international drug

1762
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 2: smuggling operation along with a Columbia receptionist.

1763
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: So continue.

1764
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:08,560
Speaker 3: I just want to say, I'm sorry, but in the

1765
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 3: mid to late sixties and early seventies, if you have

1766
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 3: to have a corporate fixer, I would argue that there

1767
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 3: is a greater than fifty percent chance that said fixer

1768
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 3: became a fixer because they were involved with the underworld.

1769
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 1: And that's cool.

1770
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 2: No, all I'm saying is that there is a lot

1771
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:34,040
Speaker 2: of money floating around, and some of it was apparently

1772
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 2: connected to dealing heroin, a thing that a lot of

1773
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 2: people died from, including one of Clive's siginees. Any who,

1774
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:46,759
Speaker 2: here's an illustrative anecdote from that Rolling Stone investigation. Paul Simon,

1775
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 2: of all people, was so turned off by Clive's arrogance

1776
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 2: that he once strode into a sales meeting at Columbia

1777
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 2: in April of nineteen seventy three and slammed a copy

1778
01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 2: of the book The Light of Krishna, about the Guru

1779
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 2: Jake krish Namurdi, published in nineteen seventy one onto a

1780
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:05,560
Speaker 2: table in front of Davis, telling him, you need to

1781
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 2: read this book more than anyone I know.

1782
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: I've never heard, so it's amazing. So I don't know.

1783
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 2: Maybe Clive Davis kills women if you'r Diddy's buddy in

1784
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:22,639
Speaker 2: the record industry. Let's see, how would the New York

1785
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:24,679
Speaker 2: Times report this if he were a young black teenager

1786
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 2: killed by a police.

1787
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 1: Clive Davis was no angel. Also, Albert Grossman was a

1788
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 1: piece of shit.

1789
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:33,719
Speaker 2: When Albert Grossman signed Janis and Big Brother in nineteen

1790
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:36,480
Speaker 2: sixty seven, he said he would not tolerate any intravenous

1791
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:38,559
Speaker 2: drug use, and all five of them agreed to abide

1792
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:41,519
Speaker 2: by the rule. However, upon discovering in spring of nineteen

1793
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 2: sixty nine that Joplin was injecting drugs anyway, Albert Grossman

1794
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:46,200
Speaker 2: did not confront her.

1795
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 1: Guess what he did.

1796
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 2: Instead tell us he took out a life insurance policy

1797
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 2: on her, ensuring that he would receive two hundred thousand

1798
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 2: dollars in the event that she died in an accident.

1799
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:58,320
Speaker 1: His yearly premium was thirty five hundred dollars, which.

1800
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 2: Meant that he stood to gain quite a profit about

1801
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 2: one hundred and twelve thousand dollars actually in nineteen seventy

1802
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 2: four money when Janis died and after the litigation where

1803
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 2: the insurance company was attempting to prove that her death

1804
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 2: was a suicide not an accident. So then Grossman, as

1805
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,760
Speaker 2: part of the testimony, lies and says that he had

1806
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:20,240
Speaker 2: never known the extent of joplin substance abuse when she

1807
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 2: was alive, and that he secured her accidental death policy

1808
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:26,519
Speaker 2: quote with air crashes in mind.

1809
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:29,839
Speaker 3: I'm in no way shape or forum siding with insurance companies,

1810
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 3: right now, I'm actually surprised that they count drug overdose

1811
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 3: as an accidental death.

1812
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: You're missing the forest for the fucking trees here, buddy,

1813
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 1: he took out an insurance policy, or after he found

1814
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 1: out she was shooting up, I'm instead of putting her,

1815
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:46,320
Speaker 1: instead of putting her in rehab.

1816
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 3: The scumbaggery of the music industry doesn't surprise me. The

1817
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:53,719
Speaker 3: fact that there is a loophole in the insurance company

1818
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 3: that surprised.

1819
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 1: Yes, that does.

1820
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let's let's change the mood a little

1821
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 2: bit lighter, moving on to a section I like to call, Hey, y'all,

1822
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 2: let's have a good time and get down and boogie

1823
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 2: to some real old time, get down, good time boogie.

1824
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:14,400
Speaker 2: For Janis, a major label contract was the culmination of

1825
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 2: a lifelong dream, and she went to show Davis her

1826
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,759
Speaker 2: own unique brand of gratitude. In his two thousand memoir,

1827
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 2: if I did it, I would have no Sorry, it's

1828
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 2: called soundtrack of my life. Other people's talent, the soundtrack

1829
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 2: of my life.

1830
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:32,000
Speaker 1: I don't think I realized you hated him this much.

1831
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:34,720
Speaker 2: Who else other than him is like up there as

1832
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:39,680
Speaker 2: far as like having this gilded Mitus touch. Yeah, but

1833
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,680
Speaker 2: I'm at Erdigan was like ten years younger than him

1834
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:45,720
Speaker 2: and legitimately like a music fan.

1835
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, I agree.

1836
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 2: I don't disagree that Clive Davis likes music, but this

1837
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:54,240
Speaker 2: idea that like an executive is anything other than a

1838
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 2: bank that like, why are we all participating in this,

1839
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:03,439
Speaker 2: this laundering, this reputation law, especially now with this ditty

1840
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 2: shit out, Like, oh sorry, this is gonna be a

1841
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 2: tough edit. I know you're trying to get this back

1842
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:12,600
Speaker 2: on a Wednesday. In his twenty thirteen memoir Soundtrack of

1843
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,719
Speaker 2: My Life, Davis recounts a surprising phone call from Abbert

1844
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 2: Grossman on behalf of janis. She's talked about meeting you,

1845
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 2: Grossman supposedly told him, and she thinks it only fitting

1846
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 2: and proper that she balled you to cement the deal

1847
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:27,559
Speaker 2: for all of his business acumen, Davis was at a loss.

1848
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:30,160
Speaker 2: I think it was a little too formal just to

1849
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 2: sign a document to say we'd be working together. So

1850
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 2: she has to sleep with me to make it more personal,

1851
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:36,879
Speaker 2: he reflected in a twenty fourteen interview with the Guardian.

1852
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 2: I took it as a big compliment, although I turned

1853
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 2: it down. He ultimately agreed to a kiss.

1854
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like him telling that story.

1855
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: Good Yeah.

1856
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:51,479
Speaker 3: For their first major label appearance, it was felt that

1857
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:53,639
Speaker 3: a live album would be a better showcase for Big

1858
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 3: Brother's abilities. John Simon, the album's producer, said in twenty

1859
01:34:57,200 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 3: fifteen they had a reputation for inspiring a level of

1860
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 3: excitement in their audience that was as much of a

1861
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 3: part of their show as their performance. In order to

1862
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 3: capitalize on that excitement, they were eager to record a

1863
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:10,720
Speaker 3: live album, so they rented a remote recording console and

1864
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:14,639
Speaker 3: recorded two shows at the toy It's Grande Theater beginning

1865
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 3: on March first, nineteen sixty eight.

1866
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:20,120
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, they hit a series of snags off the bat.

1867
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:22,840
Speaker 3: The ear splitting volume of their live performances pushed the

1868
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 3: recording meters permanently into the red. What's more, the audience

1869
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 3: response was effectively non existent. Engineer Fred Cateros had an

1870
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 3: Alice Ecoles Janis Joplin bio Scars of Sweet Paradise. They

1871
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 3: never heard a woman's sound like that. Every time she

1872
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 3: finished a song, people were just like huh.

1873
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:43,080
Speaker 1: There was no reaction.

1874
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:47,639
Speaker 3: Even more troubling for producer John Simon, the band's quote

1875
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:51,599
Speaker 3: avalanche of energy couldn't mask the quote mistakes of plenty

1876
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 3: that he heard. The producer decided to move sessions to

1877
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 3: a formal recording facility, Columbia Studio B in New York,

1878
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 3: where bumnotes wrong on chords or fluff lyrics could be

1879
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:06,280
Speaker 3: remedied with surgical precision. But retreating to the studio presented

1880
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:10,320
Speaker 3: another problem, albeit one of a non musical variety. Word

1881
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 3: had spread and already a live recording a big brother

1882
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:15,560
Speaker 3: of the holding company was enthusiastically expected.

1883
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 1: Some recalled I.

1884
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 3: Didn't want their fans to be disappointed, so instead they

1885
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:24,639
Speaker 3: endeavored to make a studio album that sounded live, which

1886
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:26,640
Speaker 3: is like kind of revolutionary.

1887
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 2: I think, well, no, Cannibal Atterly did it with a

1888
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 2: record called record. I think it's called Live at the Club.

1889
01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:42,559
Speaker 1: You're doing the Peter Griffin thing. It's like, I can't

1890
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 1: think of it.

1891
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:46,479
Speaker 3: I can't think of Cannibal Latterly's live album, Cannibellatterly Live

1892
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:47,799
Speaker 3: at the Club.

1893
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:49,759
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's okay.

1894
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 2: First of all, you I love Cannibell Adlely, greatest alto saxophonist.

1895
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: This live album that I butchered. The title of is

1896
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:01,360
Speaker 1: because it is so hilariously long.

1897
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 2: It's called Mercy, Mercy, Mercy, exclamation point live at in

1898
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:10,000
Speaker 2: quotes the club the liner notes said that it was

1899
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:12,639
Speaker 2: recorded at this club in Chicago, but it was recorded

1900
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 2: at Capitol's Hollywood studio. They just invited an audience and

1901
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:18,680
Speaker 2: put up an open bar. So it is like one

1902
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:21,599
Speaker 2: of the most live sounding jazz records of all time.

1903
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 2: It came out in sixty seven, and it's just like

1904
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 2: you literally hear people will be like like like yelling,

1905
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:31,719
Speaker 2: like at Jozavinol, who's in Weather Report and wrote actually

1906
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,080
Speaker 2: the title cut and a couple other great ones from

1907
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:36,599
Speaker 2: when he was in Cannonball's band. You know, he starts

1908
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 2: playing and you just hear somebody like, go ahead with it, Joe.

1909
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 2: It's like you look at Joe's Avinol and he's this

1910
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 2: very straight laced, like white Austrian man, but he was

1911
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 2: just so obsessed with like black what he called black

1912
01:37:48,800 --> 01:37:53,639
Speaker 2: American music. Anyway, it's a great record, but it's one

1913
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:59,040
Speaker 2: of the first fake live records, so you these white

1914
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 2: boomers didn't do it first.

1915
01:38:03,439 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 1: Sorry, that'll be fun. In the edit, where were we

1916
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:07,520
Speaker 1: well recreating.

1917
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:10,720
Speaker 3: The excitement of a swirling San Franciscan's Psychedelic Odyssey and

1918
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 3: an airless and sterile midtown Manhattan recording facility would pose

1919
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:19,360
Speaker 3: a challenge. The methods of studio tracking ran counter to

1920
01:38:19,439 --> 01:38:21,600
Speaker 3: the way Big Brother and the holding company preferred to

1921
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:25,360
Speaker 3: make their music. That is to say, loose and sloppy

1922
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:29,680
Speaker 3: and up and untrained bassist Peter Album observed in the

1923
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:33,080
Speaker 3: books Scars of Sweet Paradise. Everything's fairly isolated. You have

1924
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,320
Speaker 3: headphones on. The vocalist is in a soundproof chamber. The

1925
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,839
Speaker 3: drummers baffled in like crazy. It's a very non together

1926
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 3: way of recording. That's true. That's why it sounds good.

1927
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 3: In the hopes of improving the overall vibe, a stage

1928
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 3: was assembled in a live room, complete with lowered curtains,

1929
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 3: a spotlight, and even the band's PA system, in an

1930
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:57,880
Speaker 3: effort to mimic the idea that they were playing at

1931
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 3: a club and not in an airless studio in mid

1932
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 3: tamp Manhattan. To enhance the effect on record, though, producer

1933
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:08,760
Speaker 3: John Simon created tape loops of fake audience reactions with secretaries, engineers,

1934
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 3: and assorted members of the group's entourage enlisted as the crowd.

1935
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:15,920
Speaker 3: We gave them tambourines and whistles and stuff and said,

1936
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:18,759
Speaker 3: can you stand out here and whenever you feel like reacting,

1937
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:21,240
Speaker 3: just whoop and holler and shake your tambourines and blow

1938
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 3: your whistles. People at clubs don't have tambourines and whistles.

1939
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:29,000
Speaker 3: That's the fatal flaw in this plan. Okayed in San

1940
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:32,960
Speaker 3: Francisco right well. The album credits claim that the live

1941
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:36,840
Speaker 3: material in quotes was tape that Bill Graham's legendary Filmore auditorium.

1942
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:38,760
Speaker 1: The Soul concert.

1943
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 3: Recording, a nine minute version of Ball and Chain with

1944
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 3: a new guitar solo trek in the studio was made

1945
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 3: at Graham's other local stronghold, the Winterland Ballroom. Later, sight

1946
01:39:48,760 --> 01:39:52,760
Speaker 3: of the Last Waltz starring the band and co John

1947
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 3: Simon was good. He came up with a real concept

1948
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:58,280
Speaker 3: for the album that worked. Drummer Dave Getz said it

1949
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 3: created a picture for people who had and been in

1950
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:04,640
Speaker 3: the San Francisco ballrooms. Even the intimate Turtle Blues was

1951
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:08,080
Speaker 3: treated with ambient noise, recorded at Barney's Beanery, a bar

1952
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:11,599
Speaker 3: on Hollywood Santa Monica Boulevard that was one of Janis's

1953
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:15,960
Speaker 3: favorite watering holes. She famously carved her name into her

1954
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 3: favorite table, and following her death, I don't think you

1955
01:40:20,120 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 3: get to this later she had left money in her

1956
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 3: will to throw a party for her friends at Barnes

1957
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 3: after she died, and they sent out invites to it

1958
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 3: that said drinks on pearl with the date and the dress.

1959
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 1: Yes, and that table is still there. It's not on

1960
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:37,559
Speaker 1: the floor.

1961
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 3: They have it like hanging from the ceiling upside down

1962
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 3: so you can see Janis's name carved into it.

1963
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:43,719
Speaker 1: But it's still very nice.

1964
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:47,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, not to take that away, but I

1965
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 2: don't think they used that recording. Sam Andrews said in

1966
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,560
Speaker 2: two thousand that they returned to the studio, collected some

1967
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:56,880
Speaker 2: pals like Bobby Newarth, Howard Hessman, and John Cook, and

1968
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 2: proceeded to just get drunk for the microphone. Bobby Neworth

1969
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:03,920
Speaker 2: smashed a bottle of Southern Comfort in trash can. Janis

1970
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 2: cackled away over the whole scene, and I laughed so

1971
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:08,560
Speaker 2: hard as out of breath. This became the background of

1972
01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:10,800
Speaker 2: the quote live version of Turtle Blues.

1973
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:14,080
Speaker 1: Bobby Newarth, a Dylan associated right mid sixties.

1974
01:41:14,040 --> 01:41:17,479
Speaker 2: Eat the document right yeah, I think I don't know.

1975
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 2: Oh you just SI Bobby Neworth.

1976
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:23,679
Speaker 1: Wow, I do know. If he's in hell, you would

1977
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 1: probably know better than name.

1978
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:26,960
Speaker 2: I don't have nothing to say about him. Three of

1979
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 2: the seven tracks on Cheap Thrills were covered that, in

1980
01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:33,280
Speaker 2: bassist Peter Abby's words, been Big Brother Eyed Jordan might

1981
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 2: charitably refer to them as made worse.

1982
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:41,800
Speaker 1: They're not a good band. They're fine if you I'm

1983
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 1: giving them a pass. I know. I can't blame Shackle

1984
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 1: and Charming because I don't.

1985
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:49,519
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, man, I only get annoyed when bands

1986
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:52,840
Speaker 2: are acting above their station. Aside from the whole father

1987
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:55,760
Speaker 2: of psychedelic guitar thing, I don't think Big Brother ever

1988
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 2: actually worked.

1989
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,000
Speaker 1: Jana should be feel lucky to have sang.

1990
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 2: With using words in his mouth. What he said was

1991
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:05,519
Speaker 2: we were doing her a favor, which is ostensibly true

1992
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:10,040
Speaker 2: for an established four piece band with a house residency

1993
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 2: auditioning an unknown folk singer from Texas. Fun anyway, Fine,

1994
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:25,759
Speaker 2: that's all fine, anyway. Among their covers were the previous

1995
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:29,920
Speaker 2: mentioned of Summertime, minor key reimagining of Big Mama, Thornton's

1996
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:34,439
Speaker 2: ball and Chain stretched out to psychedelic lengths, which means

1997
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:37,680
Speaker 2: long after anyone should be paying attention. Chief among these, though,

1998
01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:39,760
Speaker 2: is Piece of My Heart, the two that would become

1999
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,880
Speaker 2: the band's first and only top twenty hit. The song

2000
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 2: had been written by producer and Bang exclamation Point Records

2001
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:50,080
Speaker 2: founder Burt Burns and his collaborator Jerry Ragovoy. Burt Burns,

2002
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 2: another person who is in record industry, Hell initially passed

2003
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:55,320
Speaker 2: it along to Van Morrison, who was then in his

2004
01:42:55,520 --> 01:43:00,639
Speaker 2: famously abusive Bang exclamation Point Records contract then and declined

2005
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:02,320
Speaker 2: one of the stupider.

2006
01:43:01,960 --> 01:43:02,639
Speaker 1: Things that he did.

2007
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:05,760
Speaker 2: I feel like because this is when he was writing

2008
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 2: like Bedbug Blues and like I've got the cooties and

2009
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:10,679
Speaker 2: to get out of the contract, right.

2010
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, he burned through his contract because I think it

2011
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:14,920
Speaker 3: was he had to produce a certain number of songs,

2012
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:17,040
Speaker 3: so instead of making them, the contract didn't say they

2013
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:18,920
Speaker 3: had to be good songs, and we wrote songs about

2014
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 3: like was someone that was like I want to bagle

2015
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:21,160
Speaker 3: or something.

2016
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2017
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:25,320
Speaker 2: But so I'm saying, like maybe he should have kept

2018
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:27,479
Speaker 2: one of the ones that was a hit for somebody else.

2019
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 3: But I mean, I'm sure he probably had a really

2020
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 3: terrible royalty deal in that label, and he probably didn't

2021
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 3: want to hit that he was going to get like

2022
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,200
Speaker 3: next to nothing for and gonna make the other person rich.

2023
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:39,400
Speaker 1: That's fair. All people should know a thing or two

2024
01:43:39,439 --> 01:43:41,519
Speaker 1: about spikee Choices, That's true.

2025
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:47,400
Speaker 2: I should, and Van Spiite choices. Yeah, I was gonna

2026
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 2: say Van got a lot further with that than I

2027
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 2: ever did. Anyway. The track went from Van Morrison to

2028
01:43:53,120 --> 01:43:56,280
Speaker 2: Irba Franklin, Aretha's elder sister, who had all but retired

2029
01:43:56,280 --> 01:43:59,160
Speaker 2: from music after a string of unsuccessful singles earlier in

2030
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 2: the decade. By nineteen sixty seven, she was working as

2031
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:05,120
Speaker 2: an administrator for IBM when Burt Burns coast her back

2032
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 2: with this new composition.

2033
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:08,840
Speaker 1: What if she was working for the guy who jilted

2034
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 1: Janis who worked at US?

2035
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,400
Speaker 2: I was going to say, what if she was catfishing Janis?

2036
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 1: Anyway?

2037
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:19,600
Speaker 2: The piece was originally something of a calypso feel, but

2038
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 2: it was given a sort of big, strident soul treatment

2039
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:24,639
Speaker 2: that sent it to number sixty two in the Billboard Charts.

2040
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:29,479
Speaker 2: Nice number four hundred and twenty of the Billboard Charts.

2041
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:34,799
Speaker 2: Full length album was planned for Franklin, but Burns's fatal

2042
01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 2: heart attack on December thirtieth, nineteen sixty seven, the true

2043
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:41,360
Speaker 2: end of the Summer of Love threw the label into turmoil,

2044
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:44,599
Speaker 2: and the follow up never materialized. The members a Big

2045
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:47,080
Speaker 2: Brother in the Holding Company. We didn't mention how they

2046
01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:47,639
Speaker 2: got their name.

2047
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,040
Speaker 1: It was literally as stupid as you think it was.

2048
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:54,800
Speaker 2: It was chet Helm's filled two notebook pages worth of

2049
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 2: nonsense phrases and told them they could pick one from

2050
01:44:58,040 --> 01:45:05,479
Speaker 2: one page and the other. Oh, like literally that seed

2051
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:08,879
Speaker 2: in Last Waltz when Richard manuel Is gagged and hammered

2052
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 2: talking about like chocolate rishwatch marshmallow overcoat as like sixties

2053
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 2: cliche ban is, that's literally how they got a big

2054
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:19,519
Speaker 2: brother in the Hope Company. Big brother was of course

2055
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:23,599
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty four, and holding Company was a pun

2056
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:28,680
Speaker 2: on you Holden as well as you know, there were

2057
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:31,479
Speaker 2: all these multinational corporations that had started to develop into

2058
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 2: the into the fifties and sixties, and said the idea

2059
01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:36,240
Speaker 2: of a shell corporation or holding corporation had come into

2060
01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,080
Speaker 2: sort of the popular consciousness. So they were tweaking the

2061
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:42,720
Speaker 2: language of big business with a drug reference, because that's

2062
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:49,479
Speaker 2: what the hippies did man uh, they psychedelic sized it.

2063
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 2: Peter Albin later said, we didn't want to imitate Irma, Franklin.

2064
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 2: Irma's Peace of My Heart had delicacy and a sense

2065
01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:56,760
Speaker 2: of mystery that was just beyond us.

2066
01:45:57,560 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 1: See sort of self awareess.

2067
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 2: Big Brother's rendition, with Janis's soulful wailing at the four

2068
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:07,960
Speaker 2: and all those out of tune backing vocals, overshadowed the

2069
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:10,800
Speaker 2: original completely commercially and became what many feel is now

2070
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,840
Speaker 2: the definitive version of the song. If having this song

2071
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:16,120
Speaker 2: taken away from her bothered Franklin, she tried not to

2072
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 2: let show inn interviews, she told Blues and Soul in

2073
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:22,920
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, presumably a magazine not the discrete genres

2074
01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:25,760
Speaker 2: of music. To be honest, I never even recognized the

2075
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:28,960
Speaker 2: song when I first heard Janis's version on the car radio. Naturally,

2076
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:30,679
Speaker 2: it would have been great to have gotten the exposure,

2077
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:33,400
Speaker 2: airplay and sales that she got, But her version is

2078
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 2: so different from mine that I really don't resent it

2079
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:38,519
Speaker 2: too much. I'm gonna go ahead and say that was

2080
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:40,439
Speaker 2: with a hefty tongue in cheek.

2081
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:43,880
Speaker 1: That's sad. That makes me sad. It is very sad.

2082
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:46,400
Speaker 2: Once again, the dream of the sixties was built on

2083
01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:47,719
Speaker 2: the backs of black people.

2084
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:53,240
Speaker 3: Another legendary recording from the album is Janis's version of Summertime,

2085
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:57,120
Speaker 3: precluded by Sam Andrews rendering a Bach prelude in C

2086
01:46:57,400 --> 01:47:03,400
Speaker 3: minor from the composer's seminal Well temper Lavier, Well, didn't

2087
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:03,760
Speaker 3: you like that?

2088
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:08,280
Speaker 1: Lavier? Now put a classical quote in it. I don't

2089
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:11,719
Speaker 1: care your hatred. This is so funny.

2090
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 2: I really wish I would have known this before I

2091
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,120
Speaker 2: agreed to do this, because it's so much funnier that

2092
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:18,919
Speaker 2: you're the bad cop in this episode.

2093
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:23,400
Speaker 1: They're not a good band, that they're fine, they're perfectly.

2094
01:47:23,040 --> 01:47:25,360
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard the Grateful Dead on an off night?

2095
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:28,960
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard Jefferson Airplane live? Have you ever

2096
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:31,280
Speaker 2: heard any sixties band live?

2097
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:35,680
Speaker 1: Ever? They were all bad. Jordan Janis deserved a good one. Yeah, man,

2098
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:37,080
Speaker 1: so did everybody.

2099
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:40,719
Speaker 2: I just don't understand your singular vitriol in Big Brother,

2100
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:42,920
Speaker 2: like these bands were all garbage live, dude.

2101
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:47,439
Speaker 1: Jefferson Airplane was okay. That Dead were at least sometimes okay.

2102
01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:51,640
Speaker 1: But just as would Bill Graham say, they're not the

2103
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:54,120
Speaker 1: best band in the world. But they're the best grateful

2104
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 1: dead band in the world or something like that. That's fine.

2105
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 1: I just love you playing bad cop. It's very wanting

2106
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:00,439
Speaker 1: to me.

2107
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,760
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm not very impressed with the backing track of

2108
01:48:03,840 --> 01:48:05,960
Speaker 3: Big Brother in the Holy Company's version of Summer Tommy.

2109
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:10,080
Speaker 1: You know who else wasn't impressed? Richard Rogers ever heard

2110
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:16,400
Speaker 1: of him. I'm not saying that I was as good

2111
01:48:16,439 --> 01:48:19,320
Speaker 1: as Richard Rogers, but we both think that Big Brother

2112
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:22,599
Speaker 1: in the Holy Company suck. Minus Janis. Actually he also

2113
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:25,960
Speaker 1: didn't much care for g He didn't like Janne. Richard

2114
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:29,599
Speaker 1: Rogers of Rogers, and she just does that. She does

2115
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 1: that fucking crazy David Lee Roth.

2116
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:37,840
Speaker 2: She's overtone singing where she gets that, like you get

2117
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:40,200
Speaker 2: the fundamental and then you get an overtone in that

2118
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:44,800
Speaker 2: ocke Summer So good it is anyway, Yeah.

2119
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:49,320
Speaker 1: Richard Rogers of Rogers and Hammerstein happened to drop back

2120
01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: Columbia's New York headquarters one day in nineteen sixty eight

2121
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:55,240
Speaker 1: to have lunch with company big wig Goddard Lieberson and

2122
01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:58,280
Speaker 1: discuss funding for his upcoming musical. He was still doing

2123
01:48:58,320 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 1: musicals by nineteen sixty eight.

2124
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:04,280
Speaker 3: That must have sucked as the Broadway icon waited, Clive

2125
01:49:04,400 --> 01:49:07,640
Speaker 3: Davis approached and introduced himself. Over the course of the

2126
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:11,519
Speaker 3: brief conversation, Davis invited Richard Rodgers into his office to

2127
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:15,080
Speaker 3: hear an advanced tape, a Big Brothers version of Summertime.

2128
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:17,960
Speaker 3: Clive Davis thought that the older gentleman would appreciate this

2129
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:20,360
Speaker 3: fresh take on the Poorgy invest classic.

2130
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:23,280
Speaker 1: Richard Rodgers took a seat in Clive Davis's office and

2131
01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 1: leaned back in the chair and waited to be enraptured

2132
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:29,720
Speaker 1: by musical wonderment. Gim me Rodgers and Hammerstein song I

2133
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:32,800
Speaker 1: can reference right now. I heard a melody, He heard

2134
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:36,240
Speaker 1: a melody. He's gonna wash that bad sound right out

2135
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:36,680
Speaker 1: of his hair.

2136
01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:41,920
Speaker 2: Klang Klang, Klang went to trolley and sing, zing zing,

2137
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:43,240
Speaker 2: went these heartstrings in.

2138
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:47,680
Speaker 1: The sound of Oklahoma. Yeah, but father styth in Texas.

2139
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:48,720
Speaker 2: I don't like musicals.

2140
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:49,400
Speaker 1: Really.

2141
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've covered this yeah.

2142
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. He listened without expression.

2143
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:56,120
Speaker 3: Clive Davis wrote in his memoir when the song ended,

2144
01:49:56,200 --> 01:50:00,040
Speaker 3: he didn't say anything, which unnerved me, Fearing that the

2145
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:03,880
Speaker 3: Summertime was a little too close to Roger's theatrical wheelhouse

2146
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:07,519
Speaker 3: for an unbiased response, Clive decided to try something different.

2147
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:09,680
Speaker 1: He said, I've decided to play a piece of my

2148
01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: heart for him.

2149
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:13,200
Speaker 2: Now, not my actual heart. I have none and have

2150
01:50:13,320 --> 01:50:15,720
Speaker 2: never produced anything of artistic value. But I did write

2151
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:18,080
Speaker 2: a check for a song called piece of my Heart?

2152
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:21,479
Speaker 2: Would you like to hear it? What an idiot? Of course,

2153
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 2: fucking Rogers didn't want to hear that. He was just

2154
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:27,040
Speaker 2: a wealthy, secret idiot the whole time.

2155
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:30,040
Speaker 1: He wasn't wealthy. He wasn't wealthy. He was an orphan.

2156
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 1: He's a Brooklyn orphan.

2157
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:35,800
Speaker 2: Oh okay, smallest violin in the world he was. By

2158
01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 2: this point, it is seriously, you get these tapes and

2159
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:41,480
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I think one of the most celebrated

2160
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:43,680
Speaker 2: Broadway composers of all time will get a kick out

2161
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:43,840
Speaker 2: of this.

2162
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:45,280
Speaker 1: Read the fucking room.

2163
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:50,200
Speaker 3: I understand him playing Summertime, deciding to play piece of

2164
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:51,639
Speaker 3: my Heart not so much.

2165
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:53,759
Speaker 1: Clive would later say that was a mistake.

2166
01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 3: Within ninety seconds, the composer of Oklahoma the Sound of

2167
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:59,800
Speaker 3: the Music and the King and I asked him to

2168
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 3: turn the tape off.

2169
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 1: Clive wrote, he.

2170
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:04,760
Speaker 3: Told me that not only did he not understand what

2171
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:07,519
Speaker 3: he was hearing, but he could not understand why anyone

2172
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:11,640
Speaker 3: would like it. As for Janiss singing, it was impossible

2173
01:51:11,680 --> 01:51:14,439
Speaker 3: for him to imagine why anyone would think she was talented.

2174
01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:17,519
Speaker 3: By this point, Richard Rodgers had apparently worked himself into

2175
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:20,120
Speaker 3: a frothing lather of len me.

2176
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:24,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he's frothing at the mouth. He told Davis.

2177
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:26,280
Speaker 1: If this means I have to change my writing, or

2178
01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:28,240
Speaker 1: that the only way to write abroadway musical is to

2179
01:51:28,280 --> 01:51:30,760
Speaker 1: write rock songs, then my career is over.

2180
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:35,479
Speaker 3: A flustered and quite embarrassed Clive Davis dropped the issue

2181
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:37,719
Speaker 3: and accepted that Rogers quote.

2182
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 1: Simply couldn't hear the new sounds? Did Richard Rogers die

2183
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:44,800
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine? Wow? So he was like here he

2184
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:45,599
Speaker 1: was sunk here.

2185
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:48,640
Speaker 2: Jergio Moroder I was gonna say he was subjected to

2186
01:51:48,760 --> 01:51:50,439
Speaker 2: quite a lot of the new sounds.

2187
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:56,120
Speaker 1: He heard the Bay City rollers. Wow. We're going to

2188
01:51:56,160 --> 01:51:58,559
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be right back with more.

2189
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:13,360
Speaker 1: Too much information and just a moment on.

2190
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:16,120
Speaker 2: Some early printings of The Cheap Thrills cover the words

2191
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 2: Harry Krishna spelled like not the way that they spell it,

2192
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:26,599
Speaker 2: exclamation point parentheses, d gets are faintly visible beneath Art

2193
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:29,560
Speaker 2: Colon R. Crumb in the speech bubble, emanating from a

2194
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:34,160
Speaker 2: man wearing a turban. We're We're just not even gonna

2195
01:52:34,160 --> 01:52:35,200
Speaker 2: get into Crumb right now.

2196
01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:37,760
Speaker 1: Can we not. I don't know much about Crumb other

2197
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:42,599
Speaker 1: than he's a countercultural icon with a weird, weird lens

2198
01:52:42,720 --> 01:52:44,719
Speaker 1: on black culture and women's bodies.

2199
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:45,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2200
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:50,479
Speaker 2: A version of Happy Birthday was also reportedly elbowed aside

2201
01:52:50,520 --> 01:52:53,120
Speaker 2: by Columbia Brass, but it was Paul Simon who put

2202
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:54,600
Speaker 2: the kaibosh on another.

2203
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:58,320
Speaker 1: Arrangement, not Paul Simon, John Simon. That was so funny.

2204
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:01,960
Speaker 2: Paul Simon showed up and he was like, Fucky, I'm

2205
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:04,800
Speaker 2: going back to playing stickball, but I wanted to say this.

2206
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:09,040
Speaker 2: A version of Happy Birthday was also reportedly vetoed by

2207
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:11,080
Speaker 2: Columbia Brass, but it was John Simon who put the

2208
01:53:11,120 --> 01:53:14,719
Speaker 2: kybosh on another arrangement of an old war horse. Guitarist

2209
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:17,240
Speaker 2: Sam Andrews tried to sell a producer on a probably

2210
01:53:17,400 --> 01:53:20,120
Speaker 2: really run through of the Star Spangled banner, but the

2211
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:23,880
Speaker 2: idea was quickly dismissed, much to his dismay. A year

2212
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:27,000
Speaker 2: or so later, Jimmy Hendrix did an instrumental version. Andrews

2213
01:53:27,040 --> 01:53:29,559
Speaker 2: said in Pearl the obsessions and passions of Janis Joplin,

2214
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:32,519
Speaker 2: But how much more revolutionary would Janis is singing of

2215
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:35,200
Speaker 2: this song been a year earlier. I'm gonna go ahead

2216
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 2: and say not so much. Sam, Probably not so much,

2217
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:46,160
Speaker 2: all right, I'm coming around on Sam Andrews. While on

2218
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 2: the topic of cover art, the initial cover of Cheap

2219
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:51,040
Speaker 2: Throws was slated to feature the entire band naked in bed,

2220
01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:55,640
Speaker 2: a nod to Janice's of the time relationship with her bandmates.

2221
01:53:56,160 --> 01:53:58,120
Speaker 2: I slept with all of them, she once said, of

2222
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:01,840
Speaker 2: a big brother brethren, my family. I've bawled them all.

2223
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:06,479
Speaker 1: Zo Wait, I've slen with all of them. They are

2224
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:07,360
Speaker 1: like my family.

2225
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:12,320
Speaker 2: Nope, just it's dude, Okay, it's on paper. The initial

2226
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:15,519
Speaker 2: concept to cover concept depicting the bandmates tucked up in

2227
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:18,160
Speaker 2: bed together almost have seemed like a perfect choice, but

2228
01:54:18,240 --> 01:54:21,160
Speaker 2: when they arrived at Columbia creative director Bob Cato's New

2229
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:24,040
Speaker 2: York set, they found an embarrassment to hippie crash pads

2230
01:54:24,240 --> 01:54:29,320
Speaker 2: on Madison Avenue's idea of domestic pinks and swirling Peter

2231
01:54:29,479 --> 01:54:34,000
Speaker 2: Max Prince frills. Joplin took one look and shrieked, let's

2232
01:54:34,120 --> 01:54:37,840
Speaker 2: trash it, boys, as they did to the American Blues. No,

2233
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:40,680
Speaker 2: I'm kidding, and trash it they did, tearing down the

2234
01:54:40,760 --> 01:54:44,160
Speaker 2: offending accouterments and replacing all of them with detritus from

2235
01:54:44,200 --> 01:54:46,360
Speaker 2: around the studio to get that true I know it

2236
01:54:46,440 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 2: smelled crazy in there, hate Ashbury Edge. Then we took

2237
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:52,400
Speaker 2: off all our clothes, jumped in bed and smiled for

2238
01:54:52,480 --> 01:54:55,120
Speaker 2: the camera. Sam Andrews said in Pearl, it was a

2239
01:54:55,240 --> 01:54:58,040
Speaker 2: very merry morning. In the photos taking that day, a

2240
01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:02,040
Speaker 2: carton of Marlborough's, Joplin's ever present bottle of Southern Comfort,

2241
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:05,520
Speaker 2: and a candle supposedly for cooking heroin are all visible

2242
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:07,800
Speaker 2: among the nude bodies. It was all a bit too

2243
01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:10,280
Speaker 2: much for the label executives, who decided to scrap the idea.

2244
01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:14,480
Speaker 2: A cartoon by zap Comics Cultiro R. Crumb, originally destined

2245
01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:17,280
Speaker 2: for the back of the jacket, was used instead.

2246
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:20,320
Speaker 3: The original cover wasn't the only thing that was too

2247
01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:23,400
Speaker 3: hot for the record company. Columbia also balked at the

2248
01:55:23,480 --> 01:55:27,920
Speaker 3: band's initial choice of a title Sex Dope and Cheap Thrills,

2249
01:55:28,160 --> 01:55:28,840
Speaker 3: which I believe.

2250
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:32,160
Speaker 2: Was that also the White Panther Parties slogan of the

2251
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 2: aforementioned MC five affiliate that I don't know sex dope

2252
01:55:37,400 --> 01:55:41,600
Speaker 2: in the streets? Was there stupid manifesto that John Sinclair

2253
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:44,280
Speaker 2: stupidly went to jail for, or whatever I've been forced

2254
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:45,000
Speaker 2: to believe about them?

2255
01:55:45,160 --> 01:55:47,200
Speaker 1: Was interesting. I thought it was.

2256
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:53,040
Speaker 3: Taken from an anti drug propaganda film, Reefer Madness, the

2257
01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:56,200
Speaker 3: Midnight movie classic, but the phrase had taken on a

2258
01:55:56,240 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 3: special significance For guitarist Sam Andrews. We looked on it

2259
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:03,080
Speaker 3: as an anecdote to being overly serious about our music

2260
01:56:03,160 --> 01:56:05,400
Speaker 3: and what the movement was doing. It was a way

2261
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:08,000
Speaker 3: of saying, lighten up, being tongue in cheek about the

2262
01:56:08,040 --> 01:56:11,000
Speaker 3: whole thing. But uh yeah, this was an era when

2263
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:14,880
Speaker 3: The Mamas and the Papas couldn't have a toilet seat

2264
01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:18,360
Speaker 3: on their album cover, and The Stones the same year

2265
01:56:18,440 --> 01:56:21,240
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty eight, with also battle with their record

2266
01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:24,880
Speaker 3: company about having a toilet on the cover of Begas Banquet.

2267
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:28,160
Speaker 3: Having sex and dope in a title was not going

2268
01:56:28,240 --> 01:56:31,200
Speaker 3: to fly for Columbia, and the titular phrase was shortened

2269
01:56:31,240 --> 01:56:33,560
Speaker 3: too simply cheap thrills.

2270
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:35,600
Speaker 1: We were both half right.

2271
01:56:35,840 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 2: You were correct about the Big Brother thing being from

2272
01:56:38,360 --> 01:56:41,280
Speaker 2: reformandnis I was correct that John Sinclair of the White

2273
01:56:41,400 --> 01:56:44,720
Speaker 2: Panther Party, the MC five affiliate. The manifesto he wrote

2274
01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:47,440
Speaker 2: was Dope, Guns and in the Streets.

2275
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:49,440
Speaker 1: Wow, Johnstonclair.

2276
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:51,080
Speaker 3: I think John Lennon wrote a song about him to

2277
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 3: try to get him out of prison, because he got like,

2278
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:54,040
Speaker 3: oh did it work?

2279
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:54,760
Speaker 1: Yeah it did?

2280
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:57,000
Speaker 3: Oh, it actually did because he was given something like

2281
01:56:57,080 --> 01:56:59,440
Speaker 3: twenty years in prison or the line of the songs

2282
01:56:59,480 --> 01:57:01,480
Speaker 3: they gave him for two So I think they gave

2283
01:57:01,560 --> 01:57:03,200
Speaker 3: him ten years for two joints.

2284
01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I got so he's so Lennon's like,

2285
01:57:06,840 --> 01:57:09,280
Speaker 2: what one for forty?

2286
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:14,520
Speaker 1: We gave a piece of chance and ultimately decided.

2287
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:15,880
Speaker 2: It was not in the interest of our bottom line.

2288
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:19,240
Speaker 3: Two weeks of sessions in New York in March of

2289
01:57:19,320 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight resulted in only three completed songs, so

2290
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:27,040
Speaker 3: John Simon, the producer, and the band DeCamp to Columbia's

2291
01:57:27,080 --> 01:57:29,880
Speaker 3: Los Angeles studio in April to finish the album. The

2292
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 3: thought of this album being recorded in Los Angeles is

2293
01:57:33,720 --> 01:57:34,800
Speaker 3: deeply offensive to me.

2294
01:57:34,920 --> 01:57:38,400
Speaker 1: For some reason. It's so San Francisco by which I

2295
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:40,440
Speaker 1: mean ragged. Gross.

2296
01:57:41,040 --> 01:57:43,640
Speaker 3: Recording continued in Los Angeles for nearly a month, but

2297
01:57:43,800 --> 01:57:47,080
Speaker 3: work was still far from complete. Complicating matters was the

2298
01:57:47,160 --> 01:57:50,280
Speaker 3: fact that Simon's perfectionist streak was seriously at odds with

2299
01:57:50,360 --> 01:57:56,240
Speaker 3: the bands what we'll charitably call laid back style. Fellow

2300
01:57:56,240 --> 01:57:59,520
Speaker 3: producer Elliott Maser would recall, here's the dude from Princeton

2301
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:02,400
Speaker 3: with per pitch telling them that they're playing their guitars

2302
01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:04,880
Speaker 3: out of tune and telling Janie that she's singing out

2303
01:58:04,920 --> 01:58:06,760
Speaker 3: of tune and making them do a million takes.

2304
01:58:07,680 --> 01:58:11,600
Speaker 1: Obviously, this did not go over well. Guitarist Sam Andrew added,

2305
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:14,200
Speaker 1: John Simon shouldn't have been the producer of this album.

2306
01:58:14,360 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 1: He was a keyboard player.

2307
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:18,000
Speaker 3: He made these really nice records and all that, but

2308
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:20,560
Speaker 3: he didn't understand guitar stuff at all, and that's what

2309
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:23,080
Speaker 3: we were. He just kind of thought we were crazy.

2310
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:26,000
Speaker 3: I don't think he thought much of Janie. He just

2311
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:28,320
Speaker 3: didn't get it. He didn't get what we were doing.

2312
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:31,000
Speaker 1: He would have been more at home with well, like

2313
01:58:31,120 --> 01:58:33,560
Speaker 1: the band, who were extremely good musicians.

2314
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:36,120
Speaker 3: He wanted to be in that band. They're like a

2315
01:58:36,160 --> 01:58:39,480
Speaker 3: string quartet and they're so good. Everything is in tune

2316
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,440
Speaker 3: and fits together. We weren't that kind of band. We

2317
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:45,160
Speaker 3: were really messy and autitune. Guitar is going all over

2318
01:58:45,240 --> 01:58:47,640
Speaker 3: the place, Janie screaming and going over the top.

2319
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was going, oh my god, how did

2320
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 1: I get into this? That's what we thought too. I

2321
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:56,440
Speaker 1: think that's a fair characterization of the band. They were

2322
01:58:56,480 --> 01:58:59,080
Speaker 1: all like kind of weird and wonky and autismal.

2323
01:59:00,360 --> 01:59:02,760
Speaker 2: Yes and no, because I did think about this quite

2324
01:59:02,760 --> 01:59:07,400
Speaker 2: a bit. I'm sure you did, he said, with barely

2325
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:08,400
Speaker 2: disguised venom.

2326
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:13,840
Speaker 1: No, I mean you're right that the band are like that.

2327
01:59:13,960 --> 01:59:17,120
Speaker 2: They were like country bumpkins to a man who grew

2328
01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:22,080
Speaker 2: up playing like barroom rock in you know, Ontario, which like, okay,

2329
01:59:22,360 --> 01:59:25,640
Speaker 2: I know, like ooh, the Ontario folks scene was pretty rough,

2330
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:30,200
Speaker 2: but like whatever. They were also very much like not

2331
01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:32,760
Speaker 2: about playing it on godly high volumes, I mean the

2332
01:59:33,520 --> 01:59:35,560
Speaker 2: because they did have to hear each other so well

2333
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:39,640
Speaker 2: and specifically. I remember one of the cool things about

2334
01:59:39,800 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 2: the second record is that guitar solo that Robbie takes

2335
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:44,080
Speaker 2: on King Harvest.

2336
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:47,200
Speaker 1: They it's like a point of production.

2337
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 2: Notes that they turned the fender that that amp literally

2338
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:54,520
Speaker 2: as low as possible, like just to get it to

2339
01:59:54,720 --> 01:59:58,640
Speaker 2: sound above the sound of his epiphone semi hollow, which

2340
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:01,400
Speaker 2: is why it's incredible that it always bowled me over

2341
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:03,600
Speaker 2: that he was still getting those pinch harmonics, those false

2342
02:00:03,640 --> 02:00:06,800
Speaker 2: harmonics to sing that crazily with something that is on

2343
02:00:07,360 --> 02:00:09,080
Speaker 2: the lowest possible gain setting.

2344
02:00:09,160 --> 02:00:10,880
Speaker 1: But I understand his point.

2345
02:00:10,920 --> 02:00:13,080
Speaker 2: I mean, and also, like if you read Across the

2346
02:00:13,120 --> 02:00:14,840
Speaker 2: Great Divide and some of the other band things, like

2347
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:18,480
Speaker 2: John Adams was very much a band fanboy.

2348
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:21,240
Speaker 1: I mean he literally was like, I wish I had

2349
02:00:21,280 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 1: been in this band, but you're.

2350
02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:25,520
Speaker 2: Right, you know it's yeah. I mean, I'm sure it

2351
02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:28,280
Speaker 2: was jarring. It's starring to listen to. I don't know

2352
02:00:28,360 --> 02:00:30,320
Speaker 2: what if I like in the studio trying to be

2353
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:37,240
Speaker 2: like you guys want to do another one. Fine, this

2354
02:00:37,320 --> 02:00:39,080
Speaker 2: is the thing that our guarfrond coals studio, but where

2355
02:00:39,120 --> 02:00:39,800
Speaker 2: you just get the guy.

2356
02:00:39,680 --> 02:00:42,800
Speaker 1: Got you want to see what I want?

2357
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:46,200
Speaker 2: I want to move on or anyway. It was probably

2358
02:00:46,240 --> 02:00:48,200
Speaker 2: a relief to all concerned, but Simon then had to

2359
02:00:48,240 --> 02:00:50,440
Speaker 2: depart in June to honor his commitment to produce the

2360
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:53,520
Speaker 2: band's second album. So now it was Maser's job to

2361
02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:55,960
Speaker 2: take cheap thrills across the finish line, and it's a

2362
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:58,080
Speaker 2: sizeable part of his duty was fending off the anti

2363
02:00:58,160 --> 02:01:02,120
Speaker 2: Columbia execs who wanted the project app asap. Maser was

2364
02:01:02,120 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 2: still in the midst of quote trying to figure out

2365
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:05,320
Speaker 2: how to put the second side together, when he got

2366
02:01:05,320 --> 02:01:08,520
Speaker 2: a phone call from Satan himself, Clive Davis, informing him

2367
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:11,520
Speaker 2: that the album, which did not technically exist yet, had

2368
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:15,480
Speaker 2: already been certified gold for shipping five hundred thousand advanced units.

2369
02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:17,800
Speaker 2: That's the last thing I'd ever want to say to

2370
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:20,720
Speaker 2: a band trying to finish a record, Maser told Janni's

2371
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:24,200
Speaker 2: biographer am Burn. Joplin and Sam Andrews spent a marathon,

2372
02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:27,120
Speaker 2: thirty six hour session with engineers trying to mix the

2373
02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:29,720
Speaker 2: final record a day and a half with no sleep

2374
02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:32,920
Speaker 2: and very little to eat. Andrew recalled, but he still

2375
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:35,520
Speaker 2: felt the grueling sessions were worth it, adding we felt

2376
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:37,720
Speaker 2: like we had something. We thought there was a good

2377
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:41,520
Speaker 2: chance it would be well received. Moving on to a

2378
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:44,480
Speaker 2: section title I call I can say the N word right.

2379
02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:48,320
Speaker 2: I don't actually have any history of Janis doing that,

2380
02:01:48,800 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 2: but white people in the sixties were quite liberal with

2381
02:01:53,520 --> 02:01:56,560
Speaker 2: this in a way that I suspect would have gotten

2382
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:59,120
Speaker 2: their jaws broken were they not frequently in a position

2383
02:01:59,200 --> 02:02:03,080
Speaker 2: of power. Fortunately, the seeds of Janet Oh sorry, I'm up,

2384
02:02:03,080 --> 02:02:05,080
Speaker 2: I gotta go, Jordan, can we get the keyboard pad?

2385
02:02:05,120 --> 02:02:06,320
Speaker 2: Where the major key?

2386
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:08,240
Speaker 1: This is what the part in the Behind the Music

2387
02:02:08,280 --> 02:02:12,480
Speaker 1: special goes from major to minor? Do I have you right? Yes? Yes, correct.

2388
02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:16,480
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the seeds of Joplin's departure from Big Brother were

2389
02:02:16,520 --> 02:02:18,839
Speaker 2: sown before the band ever set foot in the studio

2390
02:02:18,960 --> 02:02:20,080
Speaker 2: to record Cheap Thrills.

2391
02:02:20,320 --> 02:02:21,760
Speaker 1: Oh do you tell the dog story?

2392
02:02:22,360 --> 02:02:23,280
Speaker 4: No? Oh?

2393
02:02:24,640 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 1: Five Davis killed a dog? No?

2394
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:27,040
Speaker 2: No.

2395
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:30,200
Speaker 3: They like when they were like kind of on their

2396
02:02:30,240 --> 02:02:32,880
Speaker 3: way out and the band was splintering, I guess one

2397
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:36,280
Speaker 3: of the band members kind of mocked Janis on stage

2398
02:02:36,360 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 3: for like some of her howls and said something like

2399
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:42,640
Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen lassie or something, and Janis took this.

2400
02:02:42,840 --> 02:02:44,560
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not a nice thing to say anyway,

2401
02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:47,480
Speaker 3: but Janis took this as him calling her a dog,

2402
02:02:48,200 --> 02:02:50,760
Speaker 3: and it didn't go well. And I think there was

2403
02:02:50,840 --> 02:02:52,160
Speaker 3: like some kind of on stage fight.

2404
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:53,160
Speaker 1: That's pretty bad.

2405
02:02:53,280 --> 02:02:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Albert Grossman and the rest of The new management

2406
02:02:55,640 --> 02:02:57,920
Speaker 2: team made their intent clear with press kits in which

2407
02:02:57,960 --> 02:03:01,440
Speaker 2: the guys and Big Brother were effectively phantoms. Concert billings

2408
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:04,640
Speaker 2: suddenly became Janis Joplin, with Big Brother in the holding company,

2409
02:03:05,040 --> 02:03:07,640
Speaker 2: and Grossman kept turning up the heat behind the band's back.

2410
02:03:07,960 --> 02:03:09,800
Speaker 2: The first thing Albert told her was to get rid

2411
02:03:09,840 --> 02:03:13,080
Speaker 2: of Big Brother, says musician and jap. Joplin associated the

2412
02:03:13,120 --> 02:03:17,680
Speaker 2: aforementioned electric flag wead singer Nick Gravinidi's He came at

2413
02:03:17,720 --> 02:03:20,000
Speaker 2: her with a record deal and said, I can get

2414
02:03:20,040 --> 02:03:22,440
Speaker 2: you a quarter of a million dollars, but it's strictly

2415
02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:24,760
Speaker 2: for you. The deal doesn't include Big Brother.

2416
02:03:25,320 --> 02:03:25,840
Speaker 1: Think it over.

2417
02:03:26,160 --> 02:03:28,880
Speaker 2: Joplin also faced mounting pressure from outside the band's circles.

2418
02:03:28,920 --> 02:03:31,960
Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty eight progressed. Once we left warm and cozy

2419
02:03:32,040 --> 02:03:34,320
Speaker 2: San Francisco, the critics attacked Big Brother because we were

2420
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:37,960
Speaker 2: very limited musically. Gets admitted to eccholes. Ultimately, that's what

2421
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:41,000
Speaker 2: split up the band. The Los Angeles Free Press insisted

2422
02:03:41,040 --> 02:03:43,360
Speaker 2: the Joplin was quote two full of soul for the

2423
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:46,440
Speaker 2: holding company partners, and Rolling Stone called one of the

2424
02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:51,040
Speaker 2: band's Boston gigs messi and a general musical disgrace. Joplin

2425
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:53,080
Speaker 2: herself tried to laugh it off, freely admitting that the

2426
02:03:53,120 --> 02:03:55,600
Speaker 2: band were lousy musicians and interviews, but proclaiming that they

2427
02:03:55,640 --> 02:03:57,800
Speaker 2: were like family, you know, family that you sleep with

2428
02:03:58,240 --> 02:04:03,520
Speaker 2: and hate, in other words, the South cheap shot. But

2429
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:05,880
Speaker 2: Janis knew that in order to progress towards this sort

2430
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:08,240
Speaker 2: of soul review horn based sound that she wanted to

2431
02:04:08,360 --> 02:04:11,200
Speaker 2: get like at a James and Otis Redding, she had

2432
02:04:11,240 --> 02:04:14,520
Speaker 2: to go her own way. In mid September, weeks after

2433
02:04:14,600 --> 02:04:17,240
Speaker 2: the release of Cheap Thrills, Grossman issued a press release

2434
02:04:17,240 --> 02:04:19,720
Speaker 2: announcing her quote amicable split with Big Brother and the

2435
02:04:19,720 --> 02:04:23,200
Speaker 2: holding Company. They played their last show together on December first,

2436
02:04:23,400 --> 02:04:26,800
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, the end of the sixties, in San Francisco.

2437
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:30,680
Speaker 2: It was a very sad thing, Man Joplin told Rollingstones

2438
02:04:30,760 --> 02:04:32,080
Speaker 2: David Dalton in nineteen.

2439
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:33,839
Speaker 1: Seventy, which you'll note is not the sixties.

2440
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:36,360
Speaker 2: I was gonna say in nineteen seventy, the end of

2441
02:04:36,440 --> 02:04:39,520
Speaker 2: the nineteen sixties. I love those guys more than anybody

2442
02:04:39,560 --> 02:04:40,280
Speaker 2: else in the whole world.

2443
02:04:40,360 --> 02:04:40,760
Speaker 1: They know that.

2444
02:04:41,280 --> 02:04:43,040
Speaker 2: But if I had any serious idea of myself as

2445
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:47,160
Speaker 2: a musician, I had to leave. See but she took

2446
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:50,320
Speaker 2: your boy with her. Sam Andrew, who went on with

2447
02:04:50,560 --> 02:04:54,360
Speaker 2: Janis to her second band, The Cosmic Blues Review or

2448
02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:57,800
Speaker 2: whatever stupid she was called, said she fought the split

2449
02:04:57,880 --> 02:05:00,480
Speaker 2: for a long time. People were telling that she was

2450
02:05:00,560 --> 02:05:02,560
Speaker 2: better than the banned very early, but it didn't make

2451
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:05,320
Speaker 2: any difference. Then it got pretty intense for six months.

2452
02:05:05,720 --> 02:05:08,680
Speaker 2: Albert was coming on heavy to her. One night at Winterland,

2453
02:05:08,840 --> 02:05:10,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, a couple guys were sick or something,

2454
02:05:10,520 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 2: but afterwards she said, man, I go out there and try,

2455
02:05:12,720 --> 02:05:13,720
Speaker 2: and those guys aren't trying.

2456
02:05:14,240 --> 02:05:15,080
Speaker 1: It was this one night.

2457
02:05:15,640 --> 02:05:17,560
Speaker 2: It was when I noticed the change. And that was

2458
02:05:17,600 --> 02:05:20,800
Speaker 2: the year of Soul too, okay, the year that everyone

2459
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:24,680
Speaker 2: was into horns and shit. It wasn't hard feelings, it

2460
02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:27,520
Speaker 2: was pretty natural. We all saw it coming for quite

2461
02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:32,760
Speaker 2: a while. That is a fucking white guy, that's the

2462
02:05:32,800 --> 02:05:36,800
Speaker 2: thing to say. It was the year of soul, the

2463
02:05:36,920 --> 02:05:42,400
Speaker 2: year that everyone was into horns and shit, can cracker.

2464
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:46,400
Speaker 2: Moving on from Big Brother, Janis enlisted Electric Flag guitarist

2465
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:49,000
Speaker 2: Mike Bloomfield and singer Nick Gravinades to help her assemble

2466
02:05:49,080 --> 02:05:52,280
Speaker 2: the next iteration of her backing band, The Cosmic Blues Band,

2467
02:05:52,360 --> 02:05:55,360
Speaker 2: spelled with a K because everything was so much stupider

2468
02:05:55,480 --> 02:05:58,280
Speaker 2: back then. Sam Andrew, who, as I mentioned moments ago,

2469
02:05:58,400 --> 02:06:00,360
Speaker 2: came with her from Big Brother, was blunt about it.

2470
02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:03,320
Speaker 2: Janis wanted to be like Aretha Franklin or Tina Turner.

2471
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:05,560
Speaker 2: She wanted to have a big band with keyboard, organ

2472
02:06:05,640 --> 02:06:07,480
Speaker 2: and horns in it. So that's what we were going for.

2473
02:06:08,000 --> 02:06:09,920
Speaker 2: We had some great musical night, but it just wasn't

2474
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:13,080
Speaker 2: quite what Janis wanted. It was messy, the personnel was

2475
02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:15,440
Speaker 2: changing all the time. She was using too many drugs.

2476
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:18,200
Speaker 2: I was using too many drugs. After Big Brother, which

2477
02:06:18,280 --> 02:06:20,720
Speaker 2: was one family unit, it went to the opposite extreme.

2478
02:06:21,120 --> 02:06:23,120
Speaker 2: The sad part about all of this is that people

2479
02:06:23,200 --> 02:06:26,400
Speaker 2: were not very kind to Janice about the backing band

2480
02:06:26,840 --> 02:06:29,240
Speaker 2: once it evolved from Big Brother to Cosmic Blues to

2481
02:06:29,240 --> 02:06:31,520
Speaker 2: the full tip boogie ban. So the people that were

2482
02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:33,280
Speaker 2: all whispering in her ear being like, you need to

2483
02:06:33,320 --> 02:06:36,040
Speaker 2: dump Big Brother then immediately panned her. When she did

2484
02:06:36,680 --> 02:06:39,040
Speaker 2: Rolling Stones, Paul Nelson slammed a set of post Big

2485
02:06:39,080 --> 02:06:42,480
Speaker 2: Brother shows, describing Joplin as the Judy Garland of rock

2486
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:47,040
Speaker 2: who quote strangled songs to death. Six weeks later, when

2487
02:06:47,040 --> 02:06:49,400
Speaker 2: she performed back in San Francisco. After a set of

2488
02:06:49,480 --> 02:06:53,160
Speaker 2: road date at Bill Graham's Winter Land, her San Francisco

2489
02:06:53,320 --> 02:06:55,480
Speaker 2: crowd did not call for an encore, which was a

2490
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:58,920
Speaker 2: literal first for her in her hometown. Afterwards, in the

2491
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:02,120
Speaker 2: dressing room, as John Bower's noted, Janis is pale as

2492
02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:04,800
Speaker 2: if in shock, saying San Francisco's changed?

2493
02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:05,080
Speaker 1: Man?

2494
02:07:05,320 --> 02:07:07,560
Speaker 2: Where are my people? They used to be so wild?

2495
02:07:07,880 --> 02:07:10,320
Speaker 2: I know, I sang, well, I know I did. One

2496
02:07:10,360 --> 02:07:13,520
Speaker 2: of her earliest fans is Steam Jazz critic Ralph Jade Gleeson,

2497
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:17,280
Speaker 2: advised her in his San Francisco Chronicle column to quote,

2498
02:07:17,320 --> 02:07:20,000
Speaker 2: scrap this band and go right back to being a

2499
02:07:20,080 --> 02:07:21,840
Speaker 2: member of Big Brother if they'll have her.

2500
02:07:22,200 --> 02:07:23,760
Speaker 1: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

2501
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:29,080
Speaker 3: She does a killer version of maybe that Chantelle's song,

2502
02:07:29,320 --> 02:07:30,720
Speaker 3: m Well do up song.

2503
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:33,400
Speaker 1: That's like, I think my favorite song. She does? You

2504
02:07:33,480 --> 02:07:34,040
Speaker 1: know that version?

2505
02:07:34,080 --> 02:07:35,240
Speaker 2: Okay, No, I don't.

2506
02:07:35,400 --> 02:07:35,600
Speaker 4: Oh.

2507
02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:37,839
Speaker 1: She does an amazing version of it on Sullivan.

2508
02:07:38,040 --> 02:07:41,080
Speaker 3: It's really it's like the most raw thing I've ever

2509
02:07:41,200 --> 02:07:43,560
Speaker 3: seen on Ed Sullivan, Like it doesn't belong there.

2510
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:46,200
Speaker 1: It's really really amazing. That's online.

2511
02:07:47,720 --> 02:08:01,640
Speaker 4: I just.

2512
02:08:20,880 --> 02:08:24,280
Speaker 1: What's the full version? Later, she looks in pain. As

2513
02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:27,760
Speaker 1: she's singing it it's really really was well, yeah, that's true.

2514
02:08:28,040 --> 02:08:31,400
Speaker 3: Janesis heroin habit increased as she processed this new reality,

2515
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:35,360
Speaker 3: which obviously is never a good decision, and even less

2516
02:08:35,400 --> 02:08:39,280
Speaker 3: so was somebody with jenesis pre drugs temperament. In April

2517
02:08:39,360 --> 02:08:42,800
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, she told writer Nat Hentoff, I never

2518
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:44,960
Speaker 3: seemed to be able to control my feelings, to keep

2519
02:08:45,000 --> 02:08:47,120
Speaker 3: them down. My mother would try to get me to

2520
02:08:47,200 --> 02:08:49,800
Speaker 3: be like everybody else, and I never would. But before

2521
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:52,760
Speaker 3: getting into this band, it tore my life apart. When

2522
02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:56,440
Speaker 3: you feel that much, you have super horrible downs. I

2523
02:08:56,560 --> 02:08:59,880
Speaker 3: was always victim to myself. Now, though I've made feeling

2524
02:09:00,120 --> 02:09:02,640
Speaker 3: work for me, maybe it won't last as long as

2525
02:09:02,720 --> 02:09:05,440
Speaker 3: other singers. But I think I can destroy you now

2526
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:09,120
Speaker 3: by worrying about tomorrow. But I think you could destroy

2527
02:09:09,280 --> 02:09:13,360
Speaker 3: your now by worrying about tomorrow. Wow, that's a that's

2528
02:09:13,400 --> 02:09:14,360
Speaker 3: a sixties phrase.

2529
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:16,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the sixties.

2530
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, chillingly, she added, If I hold back, I'm no

2531
02:09:21,160 --> 02:09:24,240
Speaker 3: good now, and I'd rather be good sometimes than holding

2532
02:09:24,320 --> 02:09:26,520
Speaker 3: back all the time. Like a lot of my generation

2533
02:09:26,680 --> 02:09:29,200
Speaker 3: and younger, we look back at our parents and see

2534
02:09:29,240 --> 02:09:31,600
Speaker 3: how they gave up and compromised and wound up with

2535
02:09:31,800 --> 02:09:34,600
Speaker 3: very little man. If it hadn't been for the music,

2536
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:38,240
Speaker 3: I probably would have done myself in. Guitarist James Gurley

2537
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:40,720
Speaker 3: told Guitar Player magazine in nineteen seventy eight.

2538
02:09:41,160 --> 02:09:44,320
Speaker 1: Janis was temperamental. I mean, one day she'd be up,

2539
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:46,800
Speaker 1: the next day she'd be down. You never knew what

2540
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:50,839
Speaker 1: to expect. It was crazy days for everybody that whole period.

2541
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:53,880
Speaker 1: It just seemed like everything was happening at once. It

2542
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:56,400
Speaker 1: was just all happening so fast it was hard to

2543
02:09:56,480 --> 02:09:58,440
Speaker 1: keep track of things. At times, she.

2544
02:09:58,440 --> 02:10:00,960
Speaker 3: Could be great to work with because was very intelligent.

2545
02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:04,120
Speaker 3: She was really smart, a very smart woman, had a

2546
02:10:04,160 --> 02:10:07,520
Speaker 3: lot of understanding about things. But also she could just

2547
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:11,120
Speaker 3: get really petty and bullshit about something for seemingly no reason.

2548
02:10:11,760 --> 02:10:12,760
Speaker 1: I guess we all do that.

2549
02:10:13,240 --> 02:10:15,840
Speaker 3: We were all developing and the band was just breaking out.

2550
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:20,520
Speaker 3: Everybody's going crazy with all this. Even Rolling Stone acknowledged

2551
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:23,920
Speaker 3: in his own pages the impossible expectations placed on Janis

2552
02:10:24,320 --> 02:10:27,360
Speaker 3: and It's April nineteenth, nineteen sixty nine issue, the Random

2553
02:10:27,440 --> 02:10:30,680
Speaker 3: Notes column reported the whole Janis Joplin hype has grown

2554
02:10:30,720 --> 02:10:34,720
Speaker 3: to outrageous proportions whereby impossible goals have been established for her.

2555
02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:39,600
Speaker 3: No singer could deliver an absolute organ with every phrase huh,

2556
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:44,040
Speaker 3: not Billie Holiday, not efp Off, not Aretha, And yet

2557
02:10:44,120 --> 02:10:46,160
Speaker 3: somehow Janie is supposed to do it.

2558
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:49,200
Speaker 2: Just insane to me that these people like they knew,

2559
02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:53,400
Speaker 2: like they were chronicling what happened to her in real time.

2560
02:10:53,600 --> 02:10:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you find well, I mean you look at

2561
02:10:57,960 --> 02:11:01,040
Speaker 1: the coverage of Amy Winehouse, and I mean I remember

2562
02:11:01,200 --> 02:11:04,600
Speaker 1: when she died. My main feeling was everything that we

2563
02:11:04,640 --> 02:11:06,280
Speaker 1: thought was going to happen happened. I didn't think it

2564
02:11:06,320 --> 02:11:08,920
Speaker 1: actually like would, but of course it did, you know

2565
02:11:08,920 --> 02:11:12,400
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, you thought it was so obvious

2566
02:11:12,520 --> 02:11:14,680
Speaker 1: that you thought somebody would intervene and pull them out

2567
02:11:14,680 --> 02:11:14,840
Speaker 1: of it.

2568
02:11:15,240 --> 02:11:17,640
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, right, I mean, it's always everybody

2569
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:20,120
Speaker 2: at some point. And this is what everyone that people

2570
02:11:20,240 --> 02:11:23,879
Speaker 2: say frequently when they're talking about overdose deaths or these

2571
02:11:24,000 --> 02:11:27,560
Speaker 2: kinds of tragic deaths, is that everybody goes. I thought

2572
02:11:27,600 --> 02:11:30,160
Speaker 2: someone else would do it. Yeah, Yeah, The aver mentioned

2573
02:11:30,240 --> 02:11:33,760
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone reporter Paul Nelson once sagely observed janis one

2574
02:11:33,800 --> 02:11:36,600
Speaker 2: gets the alarming feeling that Joplin's whole world is precariously

2575
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:39,640
Speaker 2: balanced on what happens to her musically, that the necessary

2576
02:11:39,680 --> 02:11:42,400
Speaker 2: degree of honest cynicism needed to survive an all media

2577
02:11:42,440 --> 02:11:45,879
Speaker 2: assault may be buried too far under the immensely likable

2578
02:11:46,120 --> 02:11:50,840
Speaker 2: but tremendously under confident naivete. As we mentioned earlier, Janis

2579
02:11:50,920 --> 02:11:54,800
Speaker 2: Joplin's last public appearance anywhere was in September of nineteen seventy.

2580
02:11:55,560 --> 02:11:57,680
Speaker 2: She showed up in Port Arthur, Texas, for the tenth

2581
02:11:57,760 --> 02:12:02,360
Speaker 2: annual reunion of her graduating classnineteen sixty Thomas Jefferson High School.

2582
02:12:03,160 --> 02:12:05,480
Speaker 2: She wore flowing pink and blue feathers in her hair,

2583
02:12:06,080 --> 02:12:11,480
Speaker 2: purple and white satin velvet, gold embroidery sands painted toenails, rings,

2584
02:12:11,520 --> 02:12:15,040
Speaker 2: and bracelets. She and her entourage swept into the Good

2585
02:12:15,120 --> 02:12:21,400
Speaker 2: Hue Hotels drab Petroleum Room, Same Wow, and commandeered the bar.

2586
02:12:22,080 --> 02:12:24,240
Speaker 2: When she asked for vodka, having switched to gin and

2587
02:12:24,320 --> 02:12:26,839
Speaker 2: vodka from Southern Comfort about a year ago, the bartender

2588
02:12:26,880 --> 02:12:30,000
Speaker 2: said he had nothing but bourbon and Scotch. God, she said,

2589
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:32,160
Speaker 2: somebody go out and get a bottle of vodka.

2590
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:39,839
Speaker 3: Well, I'd like to end it on a slightly happier

2591
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:42,200
Speaker 3: note if there is a happy note to end the

2592
02:12:42,240 --> 02:12:46,440
Speaker 3: Janis Joplin episode on I was talking to Janie's younger

2593
02:12:46,520 --> 02:12:49,960
Speaker 3: sister Laura when they published janiss scrap Book under the

2594
02:12:50,040 --> 02:12:52,880
Speaker 3: title Days in Summer, and Laura said that putting the

2595
02:12:52,920 --> 02:12:55,760
Speaker 3: scrap book together was actually really cathartic for her and

2596
02:12:55,840 --> 02:12:57,640
Speaker 3: her brother. She said, it's nice to see what a

2597
02:12:57,720 --> 02:13:01,040
Speaker 3: good time Janis was having. She had a short life,

2598
02:13:01,480 --> 02:13:03,720
Speaker 3: but at least she was having a really good time.

2599
02:13:04,880 --> 02:13:08,240
Speaker 1: And Michael concurred. He told me Janice loved to laugh.

2600
02:13:08,720 --> 02:13:10,960
Speaker 1: She was the center of the party. She always was.

2601
02:13:11,240 --> 02:13:14,320
Speaker 3: She laughed loud, and she laughed hard. She was out

2602
02:13:14,360 --> 02:13:18,480
Speaker 3: to enjoy herself. I'm hearing her laughter right now. She

2603
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:21,200
Speaker 3: had a great cackle. And you know, at the start

2604
02:13:21,240 --> 02:13:23,760
Speaker 3: of the episode, you mentioned the very beginning of the

2605
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:28,280
Speaker 3: track Mercedes Benz, which was recorded just days before her death,

2606
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:31,919
Speaker 3: and you mentioned the opening when she's calling to the engineer.

2607
02:13:32,440 --> 02:13:35,760
Speaker 3: I always liked the ending of that song concludes with

2608
02:13:35,880 --> 02:13:38,640
Speaker 3: her saying that's it, and then she gives this great

2609
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:42,040
Speaker 3: little cackle, and I think that is the last thing

2610
02:13:42,160 --> 02:13:45,240
Speaker 3: she ever recorded. So I think that's a nice full

2611
02:13:45,320 --> 02:13:48,000
Speaker 3: circle moment for this episode right now. It is a

2612
02:13:48,040 --> 02:13:48,600
Speaker 3: great laugh.

2613
02:13:49,280 --> 02:13:49,600
Speaker 2: That's it.

2614
02:13:52,680 --> 02:13:53,000
Speaker 1: Out.

2615
02:13:55,840 --> 02:14:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I let my Clive Davis file

2616
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:05,200
Speaker 2: really run away with that one. But poor janis Man

2617
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:08,720
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, little Girl Blue.

2618
02:14:09,040 --> 02:14:09,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2619
02:14:09,880 --> 02:14:11,280
Speaker 2: I mean, there's one lesson you can have from this.

2620
02:14:11,360 --> 02:14:15,000
Speaker 2: And obviously not everybody's in the record industry and sees

2621
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:16,560
Speaker 2: this happening to your friends and peers.

2622
02:14:16,640 --> 02:14:20,320
Speaker 1: But don't assume someone else will take care of it.

2623
02:14:21,360 --> 02:14:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you see this kind of thing happening to

2624
02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:27,960
Speaker 2: any of your loved ones, because very often they don't. Yeah,

2625
02:14:35,400 --> 02:14:37,200
Speaker 2: I gotta, I gotta think of something the hate again,

2626
02:14:37,360 --> 02:14:38,560
Speaker 2: Bring me up, Bring me back up.

2627
02:14:40,560 --> 02:14:45,120
Speaker 1: Don Henley, Don Henley in uh did they cross pass?

2628
02:14:45,240 --> 02:14:47,760
Speaker 1: They might have? When did you move the when did

2629
02:14:47,800 --> 02:14:48,800
Speaker 1: you move to California?

2630
02:14:49,440 --> 02:14:55,360
Speaker 2: Oh god, I don't know. I was thinking about Don McLean. Okay,

2631
02:14:55,480 --> 02:14:57,920
Speaker 2: that's good. Let me see there are any good Don's.

2632
02:14:58,000 --> 02:15:01,640
Speaker 1: Don Everley was okay, but they he was also, that

2633
02:15:01,760 --> 02:15:04,280
Speaker 1: wasn't his name though, that was his title. That's true,

2634
02:15:04,480 --> 02:15:08,320
Speaker 1: that's true, that's true. Other dons famous Don Pardo.

2635
02:15:08,440 --> 02:15:12,240
Speaker 2: I like Don Don Pardo, great voice, famous dons in history.

2636
02:15:13,080 --> 02:15:14,560
Speaker 2: Now this is just giving me mom bosses.

2637
02:15:14,640 --> 02:15:17,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Al Capone, Don Johnson, A lot of bad dons,

2638
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:21,720
Speaker 1: Don Henley, Don Johnson, Don mcclan, Donald Fagan is a

2639
02:15:22,400 --> 02:15:24,760
Speaker 1: good bad down. You know what I mean. It's true,

2640
02:15:24,800 --> 02:15:27,120
Speaker 1: but he doesn't go by Don Fagan. That's true.

2641
02:15:27,440 --> 02:15:30,600
Speaker 3: Uh, Don Lemon, Don Rickolls is a good bad down.

2642
02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:36,440
Speaker 3: Don No, that's true, is a good bad down. Don Adams,

2643
02:15:38,440 --> 02:15:40,400
Speaker 3: that's fine, Don Shula.

2644
02:15:40,240 --> 02:15:43,080
Speaker 1: Don King? Where does Don King fall? Bad?

2645
02:15:43,160 --> 02:15:43,320
Speaker 2: Don?

2646
02:15:43,400 --> 02:15:48,040
Speaker 1: Okay? Don Cheatle We like Don Cheedle, We like Don Cheadle. Yeah.

2647
02:15:48,840 --> 02:15:52,320
Speaker 1: Donald Sutherland, Oh, I like Donald Souther. I just saw

2648
02:15:52,360 --> 02:15:55,080
Speaker 1: it again? Do you know?

2649
02:15:56,320 --> 02:16:02,280
Speaker 2: Don Cornelius, our president Jesus Christ. All Right, I'm gonna

2650
02:16:02,280 --> 02:16:04,320
Speaker 2: go off and eat a bullet. This has been too

2651
02:16:04,400 --> 02:16:06,920
Speaker 2: much information. Stay tuned for our list.

2652
02:16:06,800 --> 02:16:12,560
Speaker 1: Of Don's everything to know about. Down Down guys, Name Down,

2653
02:16:12,840 --> 02:16:15,160
Speaker 1: Any fans named Don get in touch. We want to

2654
02:16:15,200 --> 02:16:15,600
Speaker 1: hear from you.

2655
02:16:16,440 --> 02:16:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, proved to us that there are good Dons who

2656
02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:23,960
Speaker 2: aren't members of who probably didn't buy heroin for Clive

2657
02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:30,040
Speaker 2: Davis at one point in the nineteen seventies. Fine, that'll

2658
02:16:30,080 --> 02:16:32,200
Speaker 2: hold the little less obs for a while. Get out

2659
02:16:32,200 --> 02:16:34,080
Speaker 2: of here. Do want me to go live your lives?

2660
02:16:34,120 --> 02:16:36,520
Speaker 2: Get out of here? Can't you see we Don't want

2661
02:16:36,600 --> 02:16:41,360
Speaker 2: You Go, and I'm Jordan run talg We'll catch you

2662
02:16:41,480 --> 02:16:42,000
Speaker 2: next time.

2663
02:16:47,320 --> 02:16:49,800
Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio.

2664
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:53,320
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk.

2665
02:16:53,480 --> 02:16:56,320
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2666
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:59,199
Speaker 2: The show was researched and written and hosted by Jordan

2667
02:16:59,320 --> 02:16:59,800
Speaker 2: run Talk and.

2668
02:17:00,720 --> 02:17:03,880
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2669
02:17:04,240 --> 02:17:06,280
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2670
02:17:06,360 --> 02:17:09,320
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the

2671
02:17:09,360 --> 02:17:12,640
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

2672
02:17:12,640 --> 02:17:13,360
Speaker 1: favorite shows