Speaker 1: The motions and volley sensations are signals. They're like street signs,
Speaker 1: and they point us in the direction of our needs.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time, great thinkers
Speaker 1: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes
Speaker 1: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you
Speaker 1: think ring true. And yet for many of us, our
Speaker 1: thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 1: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 1: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 1: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 1: just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent,
Speaker 1: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 1: podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction, how they feed their good wolf m
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is
Speaker 1: Julie Simon, a licensed psychotherapist and life coach with over
Speaker 1: thirty years of experience and helping over eaters and imbalanced
Speaker 1: leaders stop dieting, heal their relationships with themselves and their bodies,
Speaker 1: lose excess weight and keep it off. A lifelong fitness enthusiast.
Speaker 1: Julie is also a certified personal trainer with over twenty
Speaker 1: five years of experience designing exercise and nutrition programs for
Speaker 1: various populations. She is also the founder and director of
Speaker 1: the popular Los Angeles based twelve week Emotional Leading Recovery program.
Speaker 1: Her new book is When Food Is Comfort, Nurture Yourself, Mindfully,
Speaker 1: rewire your brain, and end Emotional leading. Hi Julie, welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. Hi there, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have you on. Your book is
Speaker 1: called When Food Is Comfort, Nurture yourself, mindfully, rewire your brain,
Speaker 1: and end emotional eating. And I know this is a
Speaker 1: topic that a lot of listeners will be interested in,
Speaker 1: so I'm looking forward to jumping into it. But let's
Speaker 1: start like we always do with the parable. There's a
Speaker 1: grandmother who's talking with her granddaughter and she says, in life,
Speaker 1: there are two wolves inside of us that are always
Speaker 1: at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things
Speaker 1: like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is
Speaker 1: a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred
Speaker 1: and fear. And the granddaughter stops and she thinks about
Speaker 1: it for a second. Looks up at her grandmother and
Speaker 1: she says, grandmother, which one wins? And the grandmother says,
Speaker 1: the one you feed. So I'd like to start off
Speaker 1: by asking you what that parable means to you in
Speaker 1: your life and in the work that you do. That
Speaker 1: parable actually is so important to the work I do because,
Speaker 1: as you know or you may not know, for nearly
Speaker 1: thirty years, I've been working with overeaters who are primarily
Speaker 1: emotional eaters, And really the work I do is truly
Speaker 1: all about what we feed ourselves, both literally and figuratively,
Speaker 1: and pretty much every day of our lives. I think
Speaker 1: we have experiences, both pleasant and unpleasant um, and we
Speaker 1: have reactions to our experiences. And I think these reactions
Speaker 1: include emotions and bodily sensations like muscle tension or butterflies,
Speaker 1: and our thoughts and the things we say to ourselves,
Speaker 1: and our emotional reactions can lead to self defeating thoughts
Speaker 1: uh and vice versa. Our thoughts can lead to, you know,
Speaker 1: pleasant or unpleasant emotions. They can lead to moods like
Speaker 1: anxiety or excessive sadness, hopelessness or despair, self rejection or
Speaker 1: low self esteem. So basically, our reactions to our experiences
Speaker 1: can either feed a bad wolf, and you know that
Speaker 1: would be the pleasant emotions, the self defeating thoughts, the
Speaker 1: low self esteem, or we can develop habits even in
Speaker 1: reaction to our experiences. We could develop skills that would
Speaker 1: feed the good wolf, which would mean things like self compassion,
Speaker 1: self acceptance, self love, and so really, the work I
Speaker 1: do is all about teaching people the skills that will
Speaker 1: help them feed the good wolf. Yeah, that's wonderful. In
Speaker 1: the book really does have a lot of focus on skills.
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and jump into a little bit
Speaker 1: more detail here. You say that the primary cause of
Speaker 1: our emotional eating is disconnection from ourselves. Can you explain
Speaker 1: that a little bit more well, You know, one of
Speaker 1: the most common causes of over eating and weight gain
Speaker 1: is difficulty regulating our emotions, our moods, our thoughts, and
Speaker 1: even disruptive impulses and behaviors. So when we are experiencing
Speaker 1: unpleasant emotions, when we're experiencing self defeating thoughts, many of us,
Speaker 1: if we haven't learned particular skills when we were young
Speaker 1: for regulating and processing through those emotions and regulating our
Speaker 1: nervous system and reframing those self defeating thoughts. Many of
Speaker 1: us just disconnect from ourselves because we don't know, we
Speaker 1: just don't know how to handle kind of the storm
Speaker 1: that's going on inside of us, and we disconnect in
Speaker 1: any ways. So some people turn to food to disconnect,
Speaker 1: some people turn to drugs and alcohol. Uh, some people
Speaker 1: turned to behaviors like gambling or sex, addiction, drama. So
Speaker 1: we're basically trying to do something to regulate the pain
Speaker 1: that we're experiencing. And those examples that I gave are
Speaker 1: a form of disconnection. And so the problem with disconnection
Speaker 1: is that we never build any skill. We never build
Speaker 1: any skill for handling what life rows us. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you talk about how to a large extent, this
Speaker 1: starts with early interactions with our caregivers that the skill
Speaker 1: of self regulation that is not working real well if
Speaker 1: we are eating emotionally or have other addiction issues, that
Speaker 1: that self regulation skill doesn't get developed due to early
Speaker 1: interactions with our caregivers. We back up for a second
Speaker 1: and we talk about really kind of define what self
Speaker 1: regulation means. We're really referring to our ability to manage
Speaker 1: our emotions and moods and regulate our nervous system. So
Speaker 1: that we can control or redirect our impulses and our behaviors,
Speaker 1: and we can think before we act. And basically, in
Speaker 1: order for us to master the skill of self regulation,
Speaker 1: we need to have parts of our brain, the upstairs
Speaker 1: part of our brain, the logical, soothing, comforting part of
Speaker 1: our brain, well connected or properly wired to the down
Speaker 1: and stairs part of our brain, which we call the
Speaker 1: emotional brain. And recent advances in brain science have uncovered
Speaker 1: the crucial role that our early social and emotional environment
Speaker 1: plays in the development of um imbalanced eating patterns. So
Speaker 1: what we found is that when we don't receive consistent
Speaker 1: and sufficient emotional nurturance during our early years, then our
Speaker 1: brains and nervous system become wired kind of for high reactivity.
Speaker 1: That lower brain is triggered more often, and it makes
Speaker 1: it difficult for us to soothe ourselves, and it certainly
Speaker 1: leaves us a greater risk for seeking comfort from external
Speaker 1: sources like food. Right, And you say, the book is
Speaker 1: not about blaming parents and caregivers. It's really about understanding
Speaker 1: what we may have missed out on when we were
Speaker 1: younger and the effects that that has had on us today.
Speaker 1: And so you talk about two sort of key things
Speaker 1: in early childhood development, um attunement and attachment. Can you
Speaker 1: talk briefly about those two areas. Yes, And those two
Speaker 1: things that we're talking about are really crucial in terms
Speaker 1: of brain development as well. So basically, when we're an infant, uh,
Speaker 1: and we're experiencing emotion, we don't have any labels for
Speaker 1: that emotion, and we certainly don't know how to regulate
Speaker 1: what's happening to us. And so an infant just starts crying,
Speaker 1: has tension in his or her body and just starts crying,
Speaker 1: and Mommy kind of swoops in. Mommy or daddy or
Speaker 1: whoever the caregiver is kind of swoops in and calms
Speaker 1: and sue. She uses her voice, in her tone, and
Speaker 1: her eye contact and her behavior, her touch to soothe
Speaker 1: and comfort kind of tune in, we call that attunement.
Speaker 1: Tune in to what's happening with the baby, so she
Speaker 1: can kind of figure out what's that cry about? Is
Speaker 1: that cry? I'm hungry? Cry? Is that my diapers? Dirty? Cry?
Speaker 1: You know? Is that I'm sick? Cry, I don't feel well? Cry?
Speaker 1: What kind of cry? Is that? Some mommy swoops in?
Speaker 1: She she tunes in she's well attuned to her baby's
Speaker 1: different cries, and she regulates a baby and calms the
Speaker 1: baby down, sues a baby, And this will happen, you know,
Speaker 1: thousands of times in the in the baby's uh infancy,
Speaker 1: and as the baby becomes a toddler and mommy will
Speaker 1: kind of swoop in, she'll use again her words and
Speaker 1: her her tone and everything to comfort and sue the baby.
Speaker 1: And now she's gonna start to teach the toddler words
Speaker 1: like when the toddler, you know, is upset, she might say,
Speaker 1: I see you're feeling sad. That's sadness. Oh you're mad
Speaker 1: right now. She'll also use her words to help the
Speaker 1: baby learn things like corners of tables are sharp, so
Speaker 1: it's best not to crawl near them. Putting your hand
Speaker 1: on that hot surface doesn't feel good. So she's gonna
Speaker 1: tune into what the baby's doing. She's going to regulate
Speaker 1: the baby's emotional system. And as the child develops, the
Speaker 1: child is going to begin to co regulate. So the
Speaker 1: child will begin to say, you know, I'm sad, I
Speaker 1: could use a hug or you know, the child will
Speaker 1: co regulate with mommy and this attunement is is wiring
Speaker 1: the brain in a particular way. It's wiring those parts
Speaker 1: of the brain the self soothing, regulating logical function, with
Speaker 1: the emotional brain. It's creating neurnal pathways among those and
Speaker 1: between those different parts. And while the caregiver is offering
Speaker 1: the child good attunement, she's creating what's called the secure
Speaker 1: attachment with the child. So the child is developing trust
Speaker 1: that the world is safe and that if anything happens,
Speaker 1: there's someone there to help. And that attachment is also
Speaker 1: very important in terms of the brain getting wired, and
Speaker 1: not only just the brain connections getting wired, but also
Speaker 1: the chemistry of the brain, the structures that create all
Speaker 1: those good chemicals like dopamine and serotonin. All those structures
Speaker 1: are being created in the presence of good attunement, secure attachment,
Speaker 1: and a sufficient, consistent emotional nurturance. So it's really critical.
Speaker 1: That's why I always say I'm not blaming caregivers, because
Speaker 1: you know, parenting is one of the hardest jobs in
Speaker 1: the world, but it's also a very critical time in
Speaker 1: terms of brain development, and so caregivers didn't get their
Speaker 1: needs when they were young, so perhaps they're missing some
Speaker 1: skills um, maybe that's like a caregiver who you know,
Speaker 1: when you come home from school and you're very upset
Speaker 1: and your caregiver says, well, let's go have ice cream.
Speaker 1: I know you had a rough day, let's go have
Speaker 1: ice cream, but not really tuning in to your emotions
Speaker 1: and not really helping you understand how to process through them.
Speaker 1: So that's that can be a very well intentioned caregiver
Speaker 1: who's missing some skills. You could also have a caregiver
Speaker 1: who's depressed, or a caregiver who's having to work long hours.
Speaker 1: You know, in today's modern world, kids don't have the
Speaker 1: kind of village that children once had in terms of
Speaker 1: exposure to other elders. So you know, we're seeing a
Speaker 1: lot more brain imbalance, right, And you talk about it's
Speaker 1: not the result always it can be, but it's not
Speaker 1: always the result of um, something horrific or terrible or traumatic,
Speaker 1: although those things have severe impacts. And you know we've
Speaker 1: we've talked about that on this show before. But you
Speaker 1: quote the British psychoanalyst Winnikott, I think that's the way
Speaker 1: to say it, who says, you know, it could be
Speaker 1: caused by nothing happening when something might profitably have happened.
Speaker 1: And this makes me think of an earlier episode. And
Speaker 1: we were talking with somebody who's done a lot of
Speaker 1: study about our inner voice. What is the inner voice?
Speaker 1: Where does it come from? A lot of people believe
Speaker 1: that the inner voice is simply we hear outer voices
Speaker 1: and then eventually that's how we learn to communicate with ourselves,
Speaker 1: and we bring those outer voices internal. And if those
Speaker 1: outer voices are not ones that teach us how to regulate,
Speaker 1: then we bring those voices in and that's kind of
Speaker 1: what we end up with, and we don't have the
Speaker 1: skills to regu late our emotions. And you say that
Speaker 1: disordered eating patterns represent resourceful survival strategies for regulating emotion
Speaker 1: or physical arousal. And I think that's so important to
Speaker 1: think about with addiction, with um eating emotionally, is that
Speaker 1: this stuff works in some way, it's a coping strategy
Speaker 1: that has worked for us in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: It's just become maladaptive. And you say that understanding this
Speaker 1: takes the shame out of the emotional leading the recovery
Speaker 1: and shows us a way forward. Yes, I think that's
Speaker 1: so critical because I think all people who are struggling
Speaker 1: with any kind of addictive behavior feel a level of
Speaker 1: shame about it because they feel out of control. And
Speaker 1: I like to help them understand that it's not their fault.
Speaker 1: You know, often their early childhood experiences that are at
Speaker 1: play here as well as genetic uh, you know, biological, neurological,
Speaker 1: and they're also genetic factors at play. So it's not
Speaker 1: your fault, um. And also you know, these are very
Speaker 1: resourceful coping strategies. So not only is it not your fault,
Speaker 1: but you're also really creative in terms of finding a
Speaker 1: way to comfort and soothe and pleasure yourself. You know,
Speaker 1: either you found that food does it, or maybe you
Speaker 1: found that gambling does it or drinking does it. And
Speaker 1: clearly people come to see me and um, you know,
Speaker 1: seek out help because ultimately it's not working. Um. But
Speaker 1: when we start turning to these substances and you know,
Speaker 1: process addictions, it's because we're resourceful. We've hit on something.
Speaker 1: I know in my teens, for example, I smoked cigarettes
Speaker 1: and I didn't really understand it then. I only understood
Speaker 1: years later that I had low dopamine levels and nicotine
Speaker 1: increases the release of norop and ephron and ultimately dopamine,
Speaker 1: And so I was self medicating. I was self medicating
Speaker 1: a low a depression that I had, but I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. I mean, I just kind of gravitated towards
Speaker 1: the cigarettes like other teens did, and for some reason
Speaker 1: I gravitated and became addicted and others didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: know anything about why until years later when I began
Speaker 1: to understand that. Ah, So that for me was like
Speaker 1: taking an antidepressant. You know, it was adjusting my brain chemistry,
Speaker 1: and that's a pretty resourceful way to adjust your brain chemistry.
Speaker 1: It's ultimately damaging and has health consequences, but it was resourceful, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I often think about addiction or the things that we
Speaker 1: do that are addictive get us to a point, help
Speaker 1: us to survive whatever it is that's happening that gets
Speaker 1: us to a point when we are then able, if
Speaker 1: we're lucky, to develop coping mechanisms that that are useful.
Speaker 1: There are a tool that gets us to a point,
Speaker 1: and they need to be discarded, but they are very
Speaker 1: useful for a period of time. And I think that's
Speaker 1: a that's an important understanding in why we do the
Speaker 1: things we do. There's one last piece of understanding about
Speaker 1: this that I want to talk about, and then I
Speaker 1: want to go into your sort of your skills that
Speaker 1: you teach for how to do the regulation. But I
Speaker 1: think this is another important piece. And you say that
Speaker 1: when we are eating emotionally or any of these other
Speaker 1: things we're doing, numbing out or distracting ourselves, that that
Speaker 1: part of us in that moment is a very very
Speaker 1: young part of us. So we are not in those
Speaker 1: moments when we're trying to disengage. We're dealing with a
Speaker 1: very young, fragile part of ourselves in those moments, and
Speaker 1: that part of the reason it can be so challenging
Speaker 1: is that that young part of us doesn't respond to reason.
Speaker 1: So we're trying to reason with ourselves with like, well,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't do this because of blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and lay I out these logical arguments. But the part
Speaker 1: of us that's kind of in charge at that point
Speaker 1: is this very young part of ourselves that does not
Speaker 1: respond to reason and logic. And I think that that's
Speaker 1: an important concept for people to understand that when there's
Speaker 1: a situation that's triggering distress and You're a person who
Speaker 1: didn't have sufficient and consistent emotional nurturance in your early years,
Speaker 1: and so your brain got wired a little bit more
Speaker 1: for high reactivity. You have a situation that's causing distress.
Speaker 1: You just had an argument with a coworker, you had
Speaker 1: an argument with your spouse, something went wrong, you know,
Speaker 1: during your day. Somehow you're very, very upset. You're emotionally
Speaker 1: disregulated because you're missing skills, because you're missing those self
Speaker 1: care skills that we're going to talk about. You are
Speaker 1: stuck in the best way to think about is your
Speaker 1: developmentally derailed. You're stuck in an earlier phase of development,
Speaker 1: and you feel very young at those times. You know,
Speaker 1: you you want to scream. You're frustrated, you know, you're overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: you're mad, you know, and most people know this state
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about, and you're just a bad place.
Speaker 1: And maybe you're hurt, you're angry, you're lonely, you're frustrated,
Speaker 1: and you're experiencing a lot of emotion. Maybe you're even
Speaker 1: aware that your body is feeling very disregulated. It's very
Speaker 1: hard to try and reason with yourself at times like this.
Speaker 1: So let's say you're feeling like that, and you're just
Speaker 1: ready to drive through Jack in the box and right Donald,
Speaker 1: you know you're ready to go through a burger joint.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get a cheesy burger and fries and a
Speaker 1: shake and like because, as we said before, you know
Speaker 1: intuitively that that will quiet the storm. If you eat
Speaker 1: all of that, it's going to quiet the storm. And
Speaker 1: you also know that no matter what you say to yourself,
Speaker 1: because you've tried, I mean, most people who are working
Speaker 1: on these things have tried to resolve these issues. So
Speaker 1: you try to talk to yourself about what the boss
Speaker 1: said or what someone else said. But the urge to
Speaker 1: disconnect and numb yourself out is so strong because that
Speaker 1: part of you is very very young, and what hasn't
Speaker 1: developed is a very mature, wise, kind, loving, nurturing part.
Speaker 1: That's the part I call the inner nurture. That part
Speaker 1: is usually very undeveloped. What you have generally very strongly
Speaker 1: developed as an inner critic voice, maybe beating you up
Speaker 1: for what the boss said, and an inner indulging voice.
Speaker 1: That's a voice that said, yeah, let's just go to
Speaker 1: the drive through, let's just get that burger, and you
Speaker 1: know we'll deal with dieting later or eating healthier later.
Speaker 1: So you're under the influence of an emotionally dominant part
Speaker 1: of the brain. It's called the amygdala. It's like the
Speaker 1: size and shape of an almond. And you can't reason
Speaker 1: with that part of the brain. That part of the
Speaker 1: brain doesn't respond to reason. So that's when you're going
Speaker 1: to get yourself in trouble. And that's where the skills
Speaker 1: come in in terms of learning how to build that
Speaker 1: voice that can help regulate you, help calm you down,
Speaker 1: soothe you, help you look at what's going on, help
Speaker 1: you a rest any self defeating thoughts you're having, and
Speaker 1: perhaps even reassure you, comfort you, and give you hope.
Speaker 1: So we've got some skill building there that has to happen.
Speaker 1: You've got seven skills, you say, to develop this inner
Speaker 1: nurture or to nurture ourselves. Inner nurturing and consists of
Speaker 1: the following seven skills, and I'll just read them real quick.
Speaker 1: There's no way we're going to get through all of
Speaker 1: them in this interview. That's why I just want to
Speaker 1: kind of get all seven of them out there now,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about a couple of them in a
Speaker 1: little bit more detail. But the seven skills are Number one,
Speaker 1: you call pop the hood, so name and track the
Speaker 1: emotions and bodily sensations that are occurring. Step two, or
Speaker 1: skill too, is to practice self validation. Skill three is
Speaker 1: to reinforce the alliance and offer love, support and comfort
Speaker 1: to ourselves. Skillful is to get clear on needs. Skill
Speaker 1: five is to catch and reframe self defeating thoughts. Skill
Speaker 1: six is to highlight the resources that we have and
Speaker 1: provide hope to ourselves. And skill seven is to address
Speaker 1: the needs and set nurturing limits. So let's start with
Speaker 1: skill one, which is really the fundamental skill we have
Speaker 1: to start with. You call it pop the hood. Give
Speaker 1: us a little more detail in what we're doing here.
Speaker 1: It's a really basically a really simple skill, but u
Speaker 1: one that I would say many many, many people, not
Speaker 1: just emotional eaters, are missing or have poorly developed. Really,
Speaker 1: it's all about what I call self connection. It's going
Speaker 1: inside into your internal world and just like a master
Speaker 1: mechanic listening for distress, and we're basically going to be looking,
Speaker 1: We're going to be exploring our emotions and our bodily sensations.
Speaker 1: And I find people can come at this in one
Speaker 1: of two ways. Some people are not very clear on
Speaker 1: what they're feeling, what their emotions are not so great
Speaker 1: at labeling. So with those people, I like to start
Speaker 1: with the body. You know, what do you noticing in
Speaker 1: your body? So you you just had that argument, you
Speaker 1: know with your coworker, what are you noticing? Shoulders are tight,
Speaker 1: fists are clenched, jaws tight, stomach is kind of gurgly
Speaker 1: and tight, or other people are very good at identifying emotions.
Speaker 1: I'm really angry, I'm really hurt, I feel betrayed, I
Speaker 1: feel sad, I feel lonely, I feel frustrated, I feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: So the very first step is to become aware of
Speaker 1: some of your most signals, your emotions and your bodily sensations.
Speaker 1: And I teach people that it's important to become aware
Speaker 1: of these. So some people say, why should I feel
Speaker 1: all that stuff? A lot of it's unpleasant? Who cares? Well?
Speaker 1: Emotions and body sensations are signals. They're like street signs,
Speaker 1: and they point us in the direction of our needs.
Speaker 1: So if you really want to solve issues, and of
Speaker 1: course you need to figure out what you need, the
Speaker 1: best way to figure out what you need is to
Speaker 1: begin with what you feel and let that take you
Speaker 1: to what you need. So we popped the hood. We
Speaker 1: we pull away from the situation that's causing distress. Maybe
Speaker 1: we're at that drive in ready to get some food,
Speaker 1: so we pull in the park a lot. Just grab
Speaker 1: a piece of paper and start by popping the hood,
Speaker 1: writing down what am I feeling now that I just
Speaker 1: had that argument with the coworker. What are the feelings
Speaker 1: I'm having and what are the bodily sensations I'm having? Okay,
Speaker 1: And it's a very basic step, and it's a critical step,
Speaker 1: is that you begin to understand what's going on inside
Speaker 1: of yourself, what's underneath the hood. Yeah, and there's a
Speaker 1: couple of nuances here that you talk about. One is
Speaker 1: that a lot of us have a tendency to move
Speaker 1: away from unpleasant emotions by focusing on our thoughts. So
Speaker 1: we think we are identifying the emotions and sensations, but
Speaker 1: what we're really doing is we're touching them for a second,
Speaker 1: and then we're immediately back into our thought process. Can
Speaker 1: you describe kind of what that looks like and and
Speaker 1: and what to watch out for and how to handle that? Yes.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll often have people say, I'll say, okay,
Speaker 1: so you had that interaction with your husband and you
Speaker 1: know I didn't go very well. What were you feeling?
Speaker 1: And so they might say, well, I'm feeling that he's
Speaker 1: a jerk and things will never get better. And I'll say, okay,
Speaker 1: so that's a thought he's a jerk, that's not a feeling.
Speaker 1: So when you have the argument with him, do you
Speaker 1: recall what you were feeling or what you're feeling in
Speaker 1: the moment now that we're talking about it, Well, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm feeling angry. I guess I'm feeling sad. I
Speaker 1: guess I'm feeling like our marriage will never get any
Speaker 1: better because he's not going to change. Okay, so we're
Speaker 1: back into those thoughts a little bit. So let's come
Speaker 1: back just to the feeling. So I'll say, you know,
Speaker 1: feelings are just one word, sad, mad, glad. Let's let's
Speaker 1: just stay with the feelings. And then I'll, especially for
Speaker 1: someone who jumps away to their thoughts so quickly, I'll say,
Speaker 1: when you're telling me that you feel sad, I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if you're feeling that in your body or that's just
Speaker 1: kind of up in your head as a concept. And
Speaker 1: often people say, well, I'm not really feeling it. Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's go back. So sad, where do you think
Speaker 1: you might feel sad in your body? And often if
Speaker 1: we slow down, we will feel it. So the person
Speaker 1: might say, now that you're asking me, I kind of
Speaker 1: feel like a heaviness in my chest. Okay. So emotion
Speaker 1: basically presents in the body first before we have labels
Speaker 1: for it. And it's great to notice the sensations even
Speaker 1: more than to find the labels, because actually labeling our
Speaker 1: emotions is even is a cognitive act. So even labeling
Speaker 1: them kind of takes us a little bit away from them.
Speaker 1: So we go back. Our Our goal is to stay
Speaker 1: present to what's happening in the body and notice how
Speaker 1: we're experiencing our emotions. And if we tend to jump
Speaker 1: away to our thoughts, say to yourself, I'm going to
Speaker 1: write down those thoughts later. I'll address those thoughts later.
Speaker 1: Right now, I want to go back to what am
Speaker 1: I feeling after I just had that discussion with my mother. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we just stay present. We're working on building the
Speaker 1: skill of not only identifying emotions and sensations, but tolerating them.
Speaker 1: Being able to sit with emotions and sensations, even the
Speaker 1: big ones like shame or guilt, you know, or serious grief, right,
Speaker 1: being able to tolerate emotions, noticing they're not going to
Speaker 1: kill us, right, we can actually experience them and move
Speaker 1: through them. And that's where real recovery is. Right. And
Speaker 1: you mentioned also that there are sometimes that we are
Speaker 1: too emotionally overwrought to really do this process very well.
Speaker 1: And you recommend in times like that that we use
Speaker 1: what you call soothing behaviors to restore ourselves to calm,
Speaker 1: not to distract us from our feelings, but to get
Speaker 1: us back to a place that's a little bit more calm,
Speaker 1: so that we are able to pop the hood. As
Speaker 1: you say, what are some examples of soothing behaviors or
Speaker 1: explain you know how someone might know, Okay, you know what,
Speaker 1: I can't pop the hood just yet, because you know
Speaker 1: there's a ton of smoke still rolling out from underneath
Speaker 1: the hood. I better soothe this a little bit first.
Speaker 1: When when do you know when that's a good idea?
Speaker 1: And what are a couple of things that that we
Speaker 1: might do that are soothing but not distracting. Well, I
Speaker 1: think you would know basically if you're having really big
Speaker 1: feelings right and you feel kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: even just labeling them, you're you're so disregulated. So let's
Speaker 1: say I'm thinking of an example of a client who
Speaker 1: came back from a work situation where she felt like
Speaker 1: someone kind of attacked her and shamed her in a meeting,
Speaker 1: and so just feeling very anxious and kind of chaotic inside,
Speaker 1: and so just sitting down to identify her feelings, her
Speaker 1: body is feeling so disregulated, so anxious, agitated, that it's
Speaker 1: she can't clear her head to do any of this
Speaker 1: kind of work in the way we're talking. So with
Speaker 1: someone like that, I would want her to perhaps do
Speaker 1: a little grounding work. Sit in a chair where their
Speaker 1: feet flat on the floor, maybe your hands on her lap,
Speaker 1: and just begin to take some deep breaths, you know,
Speaker 1: really noticing the breath going in and the breath going out.
Speaker 1: And she can stick with that, or she can even
Speaker 1: start a little bit of relaxation, like noticing what's happening
Speaker 1: in your feet kind of tense and relax the feet
Speaker 1: tense and relax the calves, and just doing a little
Speaker 1: guided relaxation in the body, even things like getting into
Speaker 1: some comfortable clothes, um, making a cup of tea, sitting
Speaker 1: in a comfortable chair. For some people, just listening to
Speaker 1: a little bit of soothing music is a good way
Speaker 1: to start. We can even use what I call soothing gestures.
Speaker 1: You can touch your face, you can stroke from your
Speaker 1: shoulders to your elbows. You know, just kind of gently
Speaker 1: giving yourself like a hug. Anything that begins to calm you.
Speaker 1: You might lay down in a fetal position and just
Speaker 1: kind of hold yourself. For some people, that's just getting still,
Speaker 1: anything that's going to calm the storm a little bit.
Speaker 1: The idea here is not to do something that's distracting.
Speaker 1: So we don't want to just go read a book.
Speaker 1: Although if a little reading calms you down, that's fine,
Speaker 1: But our goal isn't to just go do another activity.
Speaker 1: Our goal is to calm down enough to begin our skill. Uh,
Speaker 1: to begin working our skills, so to begin popping the hood. Great.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about skill number two, to practice self validation. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, all of these skills are strategically developed and
Speaker 1: they go in a particular order. Because what I want
Speaker 1: my reader to do is to begin connecting to herself okay,
Speaker 1: and at the same time begin to develop that inter
Speaker 1: nurturing voice. So, as I said before, the majority of
Speaker 1: emotional eaters, and I would say the majority of people
Speaker 1: who use any kind of an addiction typically do not
Speaker 1: have a very well developed inner nurturing voice. And so
Speaker 1: how are we going to develop a voice like that.
Speaker 1: If we didn't hear enough of it when we were younger,
Speaker 1: we didn't have enough exposure to it, how are we
Speaker 1: going to develop it. We're going to have to kind
Speaker 1: of fake it till we make it, So we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to practice a voice. So all the skills that
Speaker 1: I teach are designed to help you slowly build that voice.
Speaker 1: So after we popped the hood, we're going to practice
Speaker 1: skill number two, called self validation, because that's going to
Speaker 1: get you talking to yourself from breaking yourself apart into
Speaker 1: two parts, if you will. So there's that young part
Speaker 1: that says, you know, I feel really sad and I
Speaker 1: feel really lonely, and then there's that nurturing part that's
Speaker 1: going to say, it makes sense to feel sad and
Speaker 1: lonely in this situation, and it's okay to have those feelings.
Speaker 1: So We're going to accomplish a lot of things with
Speaker 1: that self validation. A. We're gonna be building that voice.
Speaker 1: That's critical. We need to build that inter nurturing voice.
Speaker 1: But we're also going to be soothing ourselves. Uh. Self
Speaker 1: validation is soothing and comforting, So we're comforting ourselves. We're
Speaker 1: soothing ourselves at the same time, we're building the voice
Speaker 1: we need to build, right, and this is such a
Speaker 1: useful step to be able to develop that internal voice
Speaker 1: that speaks to ourselves more kindly, that as you say,
Speaker 1: offers understanding and also says, you know, it's okay for
Speaker 1: what's happening to be to be happening. Yes, And I
Speaker 1: you know, I call validation. I say validation is a
Speaker 1: development significant meaning most of us didn't get enough validation.
Speaker 1: We didn't get enough of someone saying it's okay to
Speaker 1: feel that way. And it makes sense. Understanding and acceptances
Speaker 1: with validation is all about. So we're gonna learn how
Speaker 1: to validate what we feel and what we think, and
Speaker 1: we're going to learn to say that every emotion is valid,
Speaker 1: every thought is valid, every sensation is valid. They're all
Speaker 1: understandable in a context. They're all acceptable to have. One
Speaker 1: of things I like about the book is it has
Speaker 1: a lot of useful phrases in there for those who
Speaker 1: don't know how to do this. You know, what, what
Speaker 1: sort of thing should I say to myself? Like, like
Speaker 1: you said, if we haven't really got a lot of
Speaker 1: experience in either doing it for ourselves or having somebody
Speaker 1: do it for us, or seeing it modeled, You've got
Speaker 1: a lot of phrases in there that we can use
Speaker 1: and try on for size. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: another piece of this that you bring up that I
Speaker 1: think is really really useful. You say, how can I
Speaker 1: practice self validation when I'm disappointed in myself? So, for example,
Speaker 1: I've just eaten an entire carton of ice cream or
Speaker 1: polished off a tray of brownies. In those moments, it
Speaker 1: feels difficult to do self validation because we really feel
Speaker 1: bad about what just happened. And you talk about how
Speaker 1: it's important that we were validating the feelings behind the behavior,
Speaker 1: not the behavior itself. Right, So we're not saying, you go, girl,
Speaker 1: you rock e brownies every night, that's the thing to do.
Speaker 1: You know, We're not We're not validating the behavior. We're
Speaker 1: validating that you know, the reason you baked the tray
Speaker 1: of brownies and ate the whole thing is because you
Speaker 1: were feeling so lonely on Friday night and you were
Speaker 1: feeling so upset with that conversation with your father, and
Speaker 1: that's why, you know, you didn't feel like there was
Speaker 1: any other way that you could comfort yourself. And that's okay,
Speaker 1: that's okay. You know, we're learning skills, and it's okay
Speaker 1: that that's what you were feeling. Right. So we're not
Speaker 1: so much validating the behavior. We're not we're not making
Speaker 1: it terrible and wrong, you know, to have slip ups either, um,
Speaker 1: But basically we're validating what we're feeling and that we
Speaker 1: were going through a pretty rough time and that's why
Speaker 1: we turned to our favorite source of comfort. Right. And
Speaker 1: I think this is such a key point though, because
Speaker 1: when we disappoint ourselves with by by acting out in
Speaker 1: whatever our diction or or or bad behavior is, it's
Speaker 1: it's such a fine line to find that middle ground.
Speaker 1: We're not, you know, brating ourselves endlessly over the behavior,
Speaker 1: and yet it doesn't feel okay at the same way
Speaker 1: to be like, oh it's fine, no big deal, right,
Speaker 1: And I like this because it threads the needle right
Speaker 1: through the middle way of that which is all right.
Speaker 1: I'm acknowledging that there's something going on emotionally that is
Speaker 1: causing me to act that way, and I'm validating that
Speaker 1: that it was okay to feel that way, that it's
Speaker 1: normal to feel that way, but not the behavior itself.
Speaker 1: And I just think that's such a useful point, right,
Speaker 1: and even being able to say, as we did earlier,
Speaker 1: the behavior even itself was resourceful. You know. It's not
Speaker 1: what I want to be doing, it's not what I
Speaker 1: want to continue to be doing, but it's still an
Speaker 1: old resourceful way thing that I turned to until I've
Speaker 1: got these skills built. It's how I've been learning to
Speaker 1: take care of myself. And I think what I want
Speaker 1: to highlight here what self validation is all about, and
Speaker 1: the reason it's not so much about condoning the behavior,
Speaker 1: but what it's really all about is self compassion, and
Speaker 1: it's about self acceptance. Like I accept me right where
Speaker 1: I am today and today I'm still using food and
Speaker 1: so I accept that that's where I am now, and
Speaker 1: I have compassion for myself with where I'm at, and
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I'm not moving forward or I can't
Speaker 1: move forward, but accept right where I'm at right now.
Speaker 1: And this all points to this sort of idea that
Speaker 1: you're you're pointing out here around We are doing these
Speaker 1: things because of our lack of ability to regulate emotion.
Speaker 1: We can't handle the way we feel, and so we
Speaker 1: act out in one way or other in a way
Speaker 1: that has in the past worked for us. And this
Speaker 1: points to why most of the approaches to getting better
Speaker 1: from these things don't work, because it's that it's that
Speaker 1: classic I just did something that I feel bad about,
Speaker 1: so I just brate myself more and more. So now
Speaker 1: I feel worse about myself. And the way that I
Speaker 1: deal with feeling worse about myself is to eat or
Speaker 1: do drugs. And then I do that, and then I
Speaker 1: feel worse about myself, and now I make that worse
Speaker 1: by you know, you know, attacking myself again, and on
Speaker 1: and on and on, and this is a way to
Speaker 1: sort of break part of that cycle. We may not
Speaker 1: be at the point where we can fully break the
Speaker 1: behavioral part of the cycle, but we start to break
Speaker 1: the emotional part of the cycle, and we start to
Speaker 1: try and process emotions in a different way, right, And
Speaker 1: that's why you know the skill number three that's coming
Speaker 1: up is so critical, which is where you're going to
Speaker 1: reinforce the alliance between a loving, kind, nurturing, wise part
Speaker 1: of yourself. Even if you don't even feel like there's
Speaker 1: anything like that inside of you, you're going to begin
Speaker 1: to develop that, and you're going to form an alliance
Speaker 1: between that part of you and the part of you
Speaker 1: that says, you know, I'm stuck in this vicious cycle.
Speaker 1: I can't I can't stand the way I feel, and
Speaker 1: I turn to food or alcohol or drugs to numb
Speaker 1: it out, and then I feel so terrible about myself.
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to do it again because I
Speaker 1: feel so terrible about myself. And then there's this part
Speaker 1: of you, and over time, this part of you may
Speaker 1: even morph into a spiritual part of you, maybe a
Speaker 1: higher self or maybe even your angels or God or
Speaker 1: whatever you would call it, part of you that that's
Speaker 1: there with you down in the bottom pit, right sitting
Speaker 1: down in the pit with you, saying I'm right here
Speaker 1: with you, babe, I know how terrible it feels. You're
Speaker 1: not alone. I love you, I care about you. I'm
Speaker 1: with you, we're going to get through this together, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think that is so critical to develop that
Speaker 1: part of yourself, a higher part of yourself, whatever that
Speaker 1: looks like to each person, but a part of you
Speaker 1: that when you're in the darkest nights of your soul,
Speaker 1: that you don't feel alone. I agree that is such
Speaker 1: a critical thing to be able to do, is to
Speaker 1: offer love, support, comfort to ourselves when we're in the
Speaker 1: midst of difficult situations. It's great when we can get
Speaker 1: it from others, and and later in the book you
Speaker 1: talk about that, and so this isn't like, oh, I
Speaker 1: have to do all of this myself all of the time.
Speaker 1: But an essential skill is to be able to deliver
Speaker 1: it to ourselves in moments of crisis when maybe there
Speaker 1: aren't other people available, or we don't have those those
Speaker 1: sorts of resources in our lives, or if even if
Speaker 1: we do, we risk draining people if we're coming to
Speaker 1: them all the time, you know, to do the comforting
Speaker 1: and soothing work that we need. You know, I found
Speaker 1: in my own journey, Um, I certainly didn't have a
Speaker 1: lot of people that I could turn to for that,
Speaker 1: and I try to try to pull it off of people.
Speaker 1: You know, at different points in my life try to
Speaker 1: get it from other people. And when I was really
Speaker 1: begin to turn within and building that inner supportive voice,
Speaker 1: what what I started to feel was that I and
Speaker 1: it had and it became kind of consistent that I
Speaker 1: always kind of wanted to go home first and take
Speaker 1: care of my own needs. I processed through what I
Speaker 1: was feeling and kind of get clear on everything even
Speaker 1: before I shared it with anyone else, And to this day,
Speaker 1: when something's bothering me, I typically don't want to talk
Speaker 1: to anyone until I've kind of sat with it and
Speaker 1: really kind of figured out all that I'm feeling and
Speaker 1: brought my inner nurture in and soothed and comforted myself
Speaker 1: because then I talked about this in the book. You know,
Speaker 1: typically when we go to other people, they often offer
Speaker 1: a lot of advice and um problem solving, and many
Speaker 1: people are not that great at helping you process through
Speaker 1: your emotions, so you turn to other people and sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't really learn the skills you need to learn. Well,
Speaker 1: we are at the end of our time here, Julie.
Speaker 1: I will have links in the show notes to where
Speaker 1: people can find your book, where they can learn the
Speaker 1: rest of the skills. You and I are going to
Speaker 1: continue the conversation in some of the post show conversation.
Speaker 1: I specifically want to talk about catching and reframing self
Speaker 1: defeating thoughts. You know, how do we work with the
Speaker 1: self defeating thoughts that come up? You and I will
Speaker 1: UM continue. Listeners if you're interested in that. UM supporters
Speaker 1: of the show get access to the post show conversation.
Speaker 1: You can go to one you Feed, dot net slash
Speaker 1: support and get access to that, and you can listen
Speaker 1: to it in your podcast player. But Julie, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. The book was really really helpful, and as
Speaker 1: I said, there will be links in the show notes
Speaker 1: to where listeners can get a copy of it. It's
Speaker 1: been my pleasure. I'm glad that I could join you today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Okay, bye bye. If what you
Speaker 1: just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a
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