WEBVTT - Senator Rand Paul Talks Shutdown, Trump's Drug Boat Strikes and More

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>I sat down with Senator Ran Paul of Kentucky, the

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<v Speaker 2>loan Republican who has consistently voted against both Republican and

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<v Speaker 2>Democratic spending bills that would reopen the government.

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<v Speaker 1>He's still a no.

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<v Speaker 2>I started by asking him if he thinks he's the

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<v Speaker 2>last fiscal hawk in his party.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen feels that way sometimes, Yeah. You know, the way

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<v Speaker 3>I look at the spending proposals is what amount of

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<v Speaker 3>debt will it add up to? So the Republican plan

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<v Speaker 3>this year, the Continuing Resolution led to about a two

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<v Speaker 3>trillion dollar deficit, and I look forward to see what

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<v Speaker 3>will it do if we do the same thing next year.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about a two point one trillion dollar deficit, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's actually worse. Now.

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<v Speaker 3>The Democrats are offering an alternative, but their alternative would

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<v Speaker 3>be three trillion dollars in debt. So I think neither

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<v Speaker 3>plan is a very good plan, and so I've offered

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<v Speaker 3>an alternative called the Penny Plan budget, which would taken

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<v Speaker 3>across the board, cut and the budget over about a

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<v Speaker 3>five year period. It would still add some debt, but

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<v Speaker 3>in the first year it would probably be half of

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<v Speaker 3>what they're looking at now.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw the penny plan that you posted on Twitter.

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<v Speaker 2>What happens when you walk in the cloakroom and talk

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<v Speaker 2>to your Republican colleagues, then, Senator, what do they tell

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<v Speaker 2>you when you try to make your case?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think they know where I'm coming from. When

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<v Speaker 3>we had to vote two weeks ago, thirty six Republicans

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<v Speaker 3>voted with me, So it's not like it's a minority.

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<v Speaker 1>Over half of my call is voted with me.

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<v Speaker 3>Now there's still sixteen big government Republicans who don't want

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<v Speaker 3>to cut any spending, and typically they work with the

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<v Speaker 3>big government Democrats and it is a bipartist spending problem

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<v Speaker 3>that we have here. But most of them, I think,

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<v Speaker 3>wish that they could be better and stronger. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think a lot of them think, well, I can't stake

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<v Speaker 3>out this position.

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<v Speaker 1>But when I get home, I get nothing but encouragement.

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<v Speaker 3>People at home are like, thank you for standing your ground,

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<v Speaker 3>thank you for standing up for what you said you

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<v Speaker 3>were running on, which was balancing the budget.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, are people at home, I'm talking to you about

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<v Speaker 2>healthcare as well, the extent to which there's concern about

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<v Speaker 2>Obamacare subsidies expiring at the end of the year. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the talk, and the President says that he's in

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<v Speaker 2>discussions with Democrats about this. Is that the off ramp.

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<v Speaker 3>Most of our conversations at home have been with people

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<v Speaker 3>affected by tariffs. So the number one issue I get

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<v Speaker 3>wherever I go in the state is tariffs are killing

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<v Speaker 3>the family farm. Tariffs are killing the bourbon industry. Tariff

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<v Speaker 3>is killing the cargo transport industry. So there's all kinds

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<v Speaker 3>of talk, but mostly of tariffs. On the idea of healthcare,

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<v Speaker 3>I hear mostly from small businesses that are not in

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<v Speaker 3>the Obamacare exchange but feel like they don't have the

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<v Speaker 3>leverage to get a good price. So what I've been

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<v Speaker 3>offering for years for people who are worried about the

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<v Speaker 3>price of healthcare is I'd like to let people buy

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<v Speaker 3>it through an entity like Costco, which has forty four

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<v Speaker 3>million members. I'd like to make it legal for you

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<v Speaker 3>just to go Costco, and then somebody from Costco would

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<v Speaker 3>negotiate for forty four million members and have the leverage

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<v Speaker 3>to drive prices down. It's that individual a market of

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<v Speaker 3>small business men and women who have trouble with the

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<v Speaker 3>health insurance. Then there's a whole government subsidy part. But

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<v Speaker 3>the reason you can't just give everybody money to is

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<v Speaker 3>we don't have the money to give to them.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to borrow it from China. That leads to

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<v Speaker 1>inflation and poor people.

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<v Speaker 3>Think they're getting something free on one hand, but the

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<v Speaker 3>other hands in their pocket stealing their paycheck with inflation.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, of course, you know that's what Chuck Schumer is

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<v Speaker 2>calling for, and Democrats that they want to have a

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<v Speaker 2>negotiation over these subsidies. When you hear Schumer shutdown, it's

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<v Speaker 2>almost a drinking game around here at this point, Senator,

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<v Speaker 2>we hear that every day from Republicans who join us.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that a disingenuous line when it comes to describing

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<v Speaker 2>this situation? Is it more complicated than that? Or actually

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<v Speaker 2>how you see it from the other side of the aisle.

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<v Speaker 3>I would say a lot of people are at fault

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<v Speaker 3>for devolving this debate down to maybe a third grade

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<v Speaker 3>level and not really thinking it through. The vote isn't

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<v Speaker 3>on shutting government down or keeping government open. The vote

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<v Speaker 3>is on what level of.

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<v Speaker 1>Spending can you tolerate? What level of debt can you tolerate?

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<v Speaker 1>And I think there can be.

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<v Speaker 3>Valid reasons now The reason why I think the Democrats

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<v Speaker 3>are less valid at this point are because forty eight

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<v Speaker 3>of them voted or forty seven of them voted in

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<v Speaker 3>December of last year for the identical bill. See, we're

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<v Speaker 3>still living under the Biden spending levels. That's why I'm

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<v Speaker 3>opposed to it. I voted against the Bidens spending levels

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<v Speaker 3>when they came from Democrats and when they're coming from Republicans.

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<v Speaker 3>But these Democrats voted for the identical bill in December

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<v Speaker 3>of twenty four. They're faced with the exact same vote

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<v Speaker 3>now and they've changed. Why because they've moved the goalpost.

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<v Speaker 3>This whole idea of Obamacare subsidies has never been a

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<v Speaker 3>part of the continuing resolution debate. It's something the Democrats

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<v Speaker 3>put forward is expiring because the Democrats allowed it to

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<v Speaker 3>expire in their own legislation. So there's a bit of

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<v Speaker 3>disingenuousness on their part.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it is interesting as well, you didn't mention AOC

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<v Speaker 2>which usually comes with the talking points on this, and

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<v Speaker 2>it is Rich Irony the Senator that Republicans are now

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<v Speaker 2>urging Democrats to vote on this bill that they once

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<v Speaker 2>found toxic. And I guess this is why a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people have trouble understanding Washington here. What's your gut?

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<v Speaker 2>Just before we move on, I'd like to ask you

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<v Speaker 2>about a couple of other things. Does the government set

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<v Speaker 2>a new record for shutdowns here? And is the President

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<v Speaker 2>applying pressure on you?

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<v Speaker 1>No? I think it lasts a few more days.

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<v Speaker 3>The Democrats are have to put on a show for

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<v Speaker 3>their left wing, so the social swing of the party

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<v Speaker 3>is hitting them. They saying they don't stand up for

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<v Speaker 3>you know, government subsidies for government welfare strong enough.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think there's a rally this weekend in Washington.

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<v Speaker 3>The rumor is the Democrats have to put on a

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<v Speaker 3>show through the rally. Once they've made it through the

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<v Speaker 3>rally and the left wing doesn't come after their and

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<v Speaker 3>eat their own, then they'll capitulate and say that they

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<v Speaker 3>want a deal and they'll open the government. You're still

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<v Speaker 3>a no though, right, Yeah, I'm an know because I've

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<v Speaker 3>been a no against the spending levels. But I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 3>know for different reasons, not for partisan reasons, not for

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<v Speaker 3>anything to do with the Obamacare substitutes. I'm gonna know

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<v Speaker 3>because both the Republican and Democrat plan offer us too

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<v Speaker 3>much debt.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you about what's going on in

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<v Speaker 2>the Caribbean, Senator Ran Paul, and specifically when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to Venezuela, and you've been outspoken about this. You commented

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<v Speaker 2>around fears of extraditional killings following the first boat. We've

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<v Speaker 2>now had four. Your concern about the president's actions here?

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<v Speaker 2>Is he looking for regime change in Venezuela?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I don't know, but we did discover today

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<v Speaker 3>that the Coastguard, when they interdict boats, it's a common

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<v Speaker 3>thing off the coast of Miami in California, about twenty

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<v Speaker 3>five percent of the time, the boat that they bored

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't have drugs on it, so they've made an error,

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<v Speaker 3>but they.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't kill them.

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<v Speaker 3>But we've blown up four boats now, and if the

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<v Speaker 3>percentage is hold true, did one of those four boats

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<v Speaker 3>not have drug dealers on it? If they all had

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<v Speaker 3>drug dealers on it? You know, the first eleven they killed,

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<v Speaker 3>what were their names? What was the evidence linking them

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<v Speaker 3>to being part of a gang? So I think there's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of unknowns here, and I don't think you

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<v Speaker 3>can have a universal Coast Guard policy of just blowing

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<v Speaker 3>up boats before their interdiction. There's decades long history of

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<v Speaker 3>how we board votes. We say halt stop, we will

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<v Speaker 3>board your boat. If they don't halt and stop, there's

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<v Speaker 3>an escalation of use of force. But we don't just

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<v Speaker 3>blow ships up. So there is a real problem.

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<v Speaker 1>And yes, I think it might lead to regime change.

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<v Speaker 3>And some of the more skeptical among us think that

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<v Speaker 3>maybe this is a provocation to lead to real regime change,

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<v Speaker 3>of provocation to get the Venezuelans to react so we

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<v Speaker 3>can then insert the military.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope that's not true.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I know you're very familiar with these rules as

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<v Speaker 2>chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, and there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a question more recently about whether there's a congressional answer

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<v Speaker 2>to this. Would you support a War Powers Act with

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<v Speaker 2>eyes on Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I will cosponsor the War Powers Act later this

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<v Speaker 3>week and we will be discussing this on the floor.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's one of the most important debates we have,

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<v Speaker 3>and the idea that you can kill someone who you

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<v Speaker 3>don't know their name and has had no process at all.

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<v Speaker 3>People say, oh, you're going to give due process to

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<v Speaker 3>fentanyl killers and.

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<v Speaker 1>All of this.

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<v Speaker 3>Even in our country, twenty thousand people commit murders, and

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<v Speaker 3>as angry as we are, if it or my family,

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<v Speaker 3>I would want to shoot them. But we still have

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<v Speaker 3>trials because occasionally the accused is found innocent and not guilty.

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<v Speaker 3>Occasionally we make mistakes, but we can't have a policy

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<v Speaker 3>where we just blow up ships where we don't even

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<v Speaker 3>know the people's names. It can't be the policy for

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<v Speaker 3>drug interdiction, either in the country or outside the country.

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<v Speaker 3>So I will support a war resolution to say the

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<v Speaker 3>government shouldn't be doing this.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's really that's news, Senator, really interesting that you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to put your name on this. Do you have

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<v Speaker 2>other Republicans that we'll support that legislation.

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<v Speaker 3>There will be people quietly who will say it's the

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<v Speaker 3>right thing to do, and will respect me for doing

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<v Speaker 3>the right thing. I think most will be afraid of

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<v Speaker 3>the response from the White House.

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<v Speaker 2>President just announced a stake in Trilogy Medals. Now this

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<v Speaker 2>is the fourth company by my count with a true

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<v Speaker 2>a government equity stake. There is also the Golden Share

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes to US steel. Is there any position

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<v Speaker 2>in which you would support these moves as MP materials,

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<v Speaker 2>for instance, an exemption in the name of national security.

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<v Speaker 2>Are we going down the wrong road here. You've called

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<v Speaker 2>this a step towards socialism. Now that we have more companies,

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<v Speaker 2>are we ever closer?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I wrote a book called The Case against Socialism,

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<v Speaker 3>and so I'm not for government ownership of the means

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<v Speaker 3>of production. But I'm also not for the government owning

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<v Speaker 3>ten percent of the means of production.

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<v Speaker 1>There are all.

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<v Speaker 3>Various forms and degrees of socialism. I do think that

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<v Speaker 3>the law, also the statute that gave money to these companies.

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<v Speaker 3>I was against it because I'm against subsidies, particularly when

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<v Speaker 3>we have to borrow them. But the law didn't indicate

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<v Speaker 3>any power or transfer any power to the president to say,

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<v Speaker 3>instead of a grant we're going to give you, we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to have stock in your company, and that's the

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<v Speaker 3>only way you get it. Those conditions weren't contemplated in

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<v Speaker 3>the law. So I suspect eventually this will go to court.

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<v Speaker 3>I've been surprised how quickly the companies have acquiesced in it,

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<v Speaker 3>but I guess it is free money from their perspective,

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<v Speaker 3>and when you get free money, it's hard to turn

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<v Speaker 3>away from that. But now I don't like it. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't like the government sort of saying to Navidia. Hey,

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<v Speaker 3>hey guys, yeah, you can sell in China this year,

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<v Speaker 3>but we want fifteen percent. You know, we wont fifteen percent.

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<v Speaker 3>There is no legal authority to do things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, my problem is, imagine what this would

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<v Speaker 3>be like if you had Mondami as president or as president.

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<v Speaker 1>There's my talking point. It came back in if AOC

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<v Speaker 1>were president.

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<v Speaker 3>Can you imagine what would it mean for her to

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<v Speaker 3>own the companies?

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<v Speaker 1>What if she owned ten percent of Exon? What if

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<v Speaker 1>she owned ten percent of the oil companies? Oh my goodness.

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<v Speaker 3>So I don't want reveuvements order democrats to own the companies.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a terrible idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Duly noted when you think about what we're discussing here, though,

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<v Speaker 2>socialism with regard to government stakes in publicly traded companies.

0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.319
<v Speaker 2>In the case of Intel, you've got Trilogy Metals. Now

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<v Speaker 2>we can talk about TikTok and the integrity of Congress

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<v Speaker 2>authoritarianism when it comes to extra digital killings off Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 2>We've all done this in just ten minutes, Senator. So

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<v Speaker 2>is Donald Trump an autocrat?

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<v Speaker 3>But the interesting thing is, despite my complaints, despite my pushback,

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<v Speaker 3>I still think he's the best president of our lifetime. Frankly,

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<v Speaker 3>I would vote him a million times over a socialist

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<v Speaker 3>like Aaron's or a president like Biden who is unable

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<v Speaker 3>to really perform the functions of the job. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>on so many things, he's for lower taxes, less regulation,

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<v Speaker 3>he's war pro business.

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't mean I agree with everything.

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<v Speaker 3>But just because I have disagreements, and some of the

0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.320
<v Speaker 3>things are big disagreements, doesn't mean that I actually, frankly,

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<v Speaker 3>don't think he's a great president.

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<v Speaker 2>You think federal workers should get back pay when the sents.

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<v Speaker 3>They always do. It's not a matter of will they

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<v Speaker 3>they always do, and it'll be part of the deal.

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<v Speaker 3>The Democrats will fold within a week. But part of

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<v Speaker 3>the deal is that all the union workers that work

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<v Speaker 3>for the federal government we'll get back.

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<v Speaker 2>Bay Republican Senator Ran Paul of Kentucky talking with US

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<v Speaker 2>earlier today. He remains a no vote on this day

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<v Speaker 2>seven of the government shutdown.