Speaker 1: Looking on trillions.
Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchunas.
Speaker 1: Eric, we're going to try something new.
Speaker 3: Every month, We're going to do an episode that is
Speaker 3: about three new stickers.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: People love tickers and we're going to give them what
Speaker 4: they want. Okay, people want to know what's going on,
Speaker 4: what are the tickers to invest in? So this particular
Speaker 4: mini episode, which will be once a month, will look
Speaker 4: at the new launches. There's four ETFs to launch a day,
Speaker 4: and in there there's going to be some really interesting launches,
Speaker 4: both ones that got our attention, ones that might be
Speaker 4: you know, kind of wild kardish, and then ones that
Speaker 4: were like scratching our head, why did that even get
Speaker 4: filed and launch?
Speaker 2: Because it's hard out there.
Speaker 4: So these are just for investors to know all the
Speaker 4: new stuff coming out. There's so much to look through.
Speaker 4: And when I travel around troll and I give presentations,
Speaker 4: when I go to the retail direct events, they love tickers.
Speaker 4: They really just want to know the ETFs what there
Speaker 4: is a vail to them because they're always just looking
Speaker 4: for ideas.
Speaker 2: So this is a way to get more tickers out
Speaker 2: to the people.
Speaker 3: Joining us on this episode is Isabelle Lee, who's a
Speaker 3: cross asset reporter from Bloomberg News. She's got one that
Speaker 3: she wanted to talk about.
Speaker 5: So excited. Of course it's big. Should I say it
Speaker 5: now or now let's hear it MSBT Okay, that's.
Speaker 1: The Morgan Stanley bitcoin ETF.
Speaker 3: Seems like a little bit late to be launching an
Speaker 3: ETF that's about bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yes, like there's a few of these others. Why why
Speaker 1: is Marian Sane sound.
Speaker 5: So excited because I wrote about it. Yeah, that's why
Speaker 5: there's that bias. It's interesting because they are indeed two
Speaker 5: years late, but then they came in strong with the
Speaker 5: lowest fee ever. It's fourteen basis points the gray scale
Speaker 5: meaning bitcoin ETF, it's fifteen basis points, and I bit
Speaker 5: black rocks bitcoin ETF, which comprises around sixty percent of
Speaker 5: total assets, is around twenty five basis points. So for them, yes,
Speaker 5: we may not be the first player, but we're going
Speaker 5: to come in strong and be the cheapest. And why
Speaker 5: is that Because Morgan Stanley has such a strong financial
Speaker 5: advisor base around sixteen thousand. So Eric actually gave a
Speaker 5: great quote for him. He said, eliminate all conflict of
Speaker 5: interest We're going to be the cheapest. Do that when
Speaker 5: our advisors choose to use us, you know, you can't
Speaker 5: say anything. It's the cheapest.
Speaker 1: So is that going to be enough to make this
Speaker 1: product a success? Yeah?
Speaker 4: If you have sixteen thousand advisors that manage seven trillion,
Speaker 4: it's a pretty good target market. I mean it's like, yes,
Speaker 4: it's good to be the king, Joel.
Speaker 2: I mean, Morgan stand so long?
Speaker 4: Well, okay, I'll tell you what took These big banks
Speaker 4: like Morgan Stanley, they've tiptoed into ETFs. They haven't gone
Speaker 4: full mad Max yet, but they hired someone from Blackrock
Speaker 4: Ali Wallace, So she's kind of mixing it up internally.
Speaker 4: And I guarantee it wasn't easy getting the fourteen BIPs
Speaker 4: passed by our management because again they haven't gone to
Speaker 4: that full terrodome point like other firms have usually take
Speaker 4: three or four years. But the fourteen BIPs is very
Speaker 4: important because what she how she probably sold management was like, look,
Speaker 4: you've just had the advisors be okay with bitcoin, Like
Speaker 4: the advisors put a memo out saying you can now
Speaker 4: invest in bitcoin one to four percent, be careful. Thanks,
Speaker 4: and they probably said okay, well, if we can do it,
Speaker 4: why don't we just keep the money instead of paying
Speaker 4: black Rock, you know, and that it's an easy selling point.
Speaker 2: I was looking for new.
Speaker 4: White shirts at the Nordstrum the other day and actually
Speaker 4: stumbled upon Nordstrum Brandy and they're pretty good, and I
Speaker 4: bought one and I was like, that's MSBT right there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's Eric says b y OA is better than
Speaker 5: p t og.
Speaker 1: Okay, the first one is.
Speaker 5: Bring your own assis and the second better than pay
Speaker 5: the other guy. But Eric's right. They did release a
Speaker 5: note they advised that's.
Speaker 2: Like next other guy physics.
Speaker 5: I try to insert it in this story, but I'm
Speaker 5: just a humble reporter here.
Speaker 1: Also, I kind of want to know did he buy
Speaker 1: the north From shirt like I did?
Speaker 5: Yeah, you bought it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Along with other ones or not?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mixed it up.
Speaker 4: But the north Trum was I mean it was Honestly,
Speaker 4: it was one hundred. I was looking for a very
Speaker 4: high quality shirt and it was one hundred, whereas other
Speaker 4: similar qualities were like one fifteen. I was like, this
Speaker 4: is this is exactly what Morgan Stanley advisor must feel like.
Speaker 3: Interesting, this is what's in my brain on Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 2: Don't you don't want any part of it?
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: Also in November, the OCC allowed national banks to hold
Speaker 5: crypto assets on their balance so that was a keyte legislature.
Speaker 1: Now that's a huge chance.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's not as if, oh they just thought about it.
Speaker 5: They were waiting for the Wheels degree. So my question
Speaker 5: actually is why did other banks? Why have they not
Speaker 5: done it?
Speaker 4: They Well, Goldman just filed for a Premium Bitcoin Income ETF,
Speaker 4: which would use call options to generate yield. That's pretty
Speaker 4: major too. Goldman probably saw Morgan Stanley. So there's not
Speaker 4: a whole lot of people left. Schwab is doing direct trading.
Speaker 4: I mean it reminds me of ETS. You said, the
Speaker 4: list of the top thirty asset managers and whether they
Speaker 4: had ETFs or not, and we would just cross them
Speaker 4: off the list slowly. Now it's it's even MFS was
Speaker 4: the last holdout. I feel like we're finding the same
Speaker 4: thing with bitcoin. All these firms are like, we need
Speaker 4: to have something at least. So I would look for
Speaker 4: more action on this, especially again, if Morgan Stanley starts
Speaker 4: to see flows, they already have one hundred and thirty
Speaker 4: two million in like a week. Look out, you could
Speaker 4: see some of these other big banks for the same reason.
Speaker 4: Might as well have our own better than giving black
Speaker 4: Rock the money.
Speaker 3: Other fun fact that Eric mentioned to me was that
Speaker 3: Vanguard now allows bitcoin ETF tickers on their platform.
Speaker 1: What happened when that change went into effect, Eric.
Speaker 4: The bitcoin price a bitcoin went up like six thousand
Speaker 4: dollars that day. There was clearly some pent up demand.
Speaker 4: I don't know how much more there would be. I
Speaker 4: can't have the numbers from Vanguard, but I'd imagine there's
Speaker 4: a sliver of Vanguard investors who have a little degen
Speaker 4: in them and or one crypto long term. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think some of the investors that use Vanguard, they're
Speaker 4: not all like boy scouts, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean there's some who want.
Speaker 4: To have speculative assets, and so I think those probably
Speaker 4: got served early because they were just waiting and waiting. Well,
Speaker 4: I don't I wouldnt Seevanguard platform being a huge demand driver,
Speaker 4: but it was pent up for a minute there.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Vanguard, we have a wild card ETF pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a Vanguard ETF and it's not what Vanguard
Speaker 4: being wildcard is unusual, but it's the Vanguard Developed Market's
Speaker 4: x US Growth Index.
Speaker 1: What's that ticker, it's VDG.
Speaker 2: This is interesting for a couple reasons.
Speaker 4: A there has been this cell America or let me
Speaker 4: diversify out of America trade.
Speaker 2: This gives you everything but the US.
Speaker 4: This is different than a lot of stuff on the
Speaker 4: market which actually might be just developed which includes the US,
Speaker 4: or global which includes the US.
Speaker 2: This is like strictly everything but the US.
Speaker 1: And only developed.
Speaker 4: Yes, only developed, So Vanguard investors probably prefer developed over em.
Speaker 2: The fee is eight pips. That's really good.
Speaker 4: Already has fifteen million dollars, so it's not necessarily a wildcard,
Speaker 4: but it is Vanguard kind of really going deeper and
Speaker 4: deeper into these places that they think they can make
Speaker 4: impact in. And this will obviously be a hit. How
Speaker 4: big we'll see, but it was just I just thought
Speaker 4: it was interesting, notable launch, and they do not put
Speaker 4: out that many ets, so if they do, it matters
Speaker 4: and it's interesting.
Speaker 5: It doesn't seem though that it will be a core
Speaker 5: holding by itself. I guess if you want to actively
Speaker 5: controlled growth and your value exposure internationally, it will be good,
Speaker 5: but yeah, so cheap point zero eight okay.
Speaker 4: Last category, Eric, Yeah, we're gonna affectionately call this, and
Speaker 4: we mean this with all due respect.
Speaker 1: Good luck with that.
Speaker 4: There's sometimes we'll see filings and we'll throw it in
Speaker 4: the chat group and everybody's like, oh man, good luck
Speaker 4: with that. And look, no, sometimes we say that and the.
Speaker 5: ETF does well and it proves is wrong and we
Speaker 5: have to eat our.
Speaker 1: Words, which we will do here.
Speaker 2: If we will do, we promise.
Speaker 4: But here's an ETF that came out. Pizenna US Large
Speaker 4: Cap Value pz l V is the ticker. It's okay, fine,
Speaker 4: large cat value. It's probably the one hundred and eightieth
Speaker 4: large cap value ETF. The fee is sixty basis points.
Speaker 4: The manager will go try to identify undervalued stocks, blah
Speaker 4: blah blah, and like fine, it's it's just it's very
Speaker 4: like nineteen ninety five feeling, you know, and it's tough
Speaker 4: to make an impact in such a crowded space if
Speaker 4: you're not dirt, cheap or shiny, and so again, like,
Speaker 4: how will this get money? I don't know.
Speaker 1: How's that going? So far?
Speaker 4: To be fair, it has fifty eight million, which is
Speaker 4: pretty good now my guess is some of these good
Speaker 4: luck with that ETFs are people who have money somewhere
Speaker 4: else SMAs or vitual funds, and their investors are telling them,
Speaker 4: we want the ETF format better for taxes, YadA, YadA,
Speaker 4: So some of that money could be coming over. In
Speaker 4: that case, it's a smart launch because hey, better to
Speaker 4: save that investor than lose them. But in the organic
Speaker 4: open market, it's just tough to see something that is
Speaker 4: so kind of just facing the crowd at this point,
Speaker 4: and you know, well again it's called the terodome.
Speaker 2: We call it for a reason. It's hard market.
Speaker 4: But if this thing gets over a billion, I again,
Speaker 4: I will come on and eat my words.
Speaker 5: It's pretty expensive. The expense ratio is sixty bases points.
Speaker 5: So for a large cap active.
Speaker 4: You can get I mean like alf Architect I believe
Speaker 4: had high high concentrated active for way less than this
Speaker 4: Vanguard value is like three basis points or four. That's
Speaker 4: like the index attracts value stocks. So again sixty isn't
Speaker 4: like crazy expensive. But these days, typically like dfa capital group,
Speaker 4: they can they'll serve up value for under forty, under
Speaker 4: thirty in some cases of under twenty and again, So
Speaker 4: it's not just like it's competing against passive.
Speaker 2: It's all these big active.
Speaker 4: Managers come in with large cap value for like half
Speaker 4: or a third of the cost. So again, like sometimes
Speaker 4: I wonder like did this person fall asleep in a
Speaker 4: cave like Britt van Winkle and then walk out and
Speaker 4: be like, Wow, what year is it?
Speaker 5: What are the top holdings as of today? I think
Speaker 5: it's not what you would expect when we were looking
Speaker 5: just ten minutes ago.
Speaker 4: The good news is I don't recognize a ton of
Speaker 4: these firms Baxter well CVS. I know they keep closing
Speaker 4: them in Philly.
Speaker 2: It's a shame.
Speaker 4: Capital One City Group, Dollar, General, Wells, Fargo.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's a.
Speaker 4: Basket of value stocks. The one thing it's only forty
Speaker 4: one stocks. That means it has a chance to actually
Speaker 4: succeed over the benchmarket's pretty concentrated.
Speaker 2: Because it's pretty concentrated.
Speaker 4: I mean it's only been out for a minute, but
Speaker 4: it is up seven point seven percent. Wow, that is
Speaker 4: pretty good in a couple of weeks changing already.
Speaker 1: Good luck truly, good luck with that.
Speaker 5: Good luck with that.
Speaker 1: Eric.
Speaker 5: I think also it's active, and that's maybe the selling
Speaker 5: proposition but it's active.
Speaker 2: But there's you can get high.
Speaker 4: You can get Capitol Group is the highest brand t
Speaker 4: row DFA, JP Morgan. You can get top shelf brand
Speaker 4: name active value for a half of this cost.
Speaker 5: Maybe they know something we don't.
Speaker 2: That's right, maybe they do.
Speaker 5: Good luck with that, Eric, good luck with that?
Speaker 1: Okay? Is Itelle? Thanks for joining us?
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks for listening to Trillions until next time.
Speaker 3: You can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, Burg dot com,
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Speaker 3: Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson and Kishav Pandia Bye