Speaker 1: Pushkin, Pushkin. Hey everyone, this is number three in our
Speaker 1: four episode run with the Red Hot Chili Peppers celebrating
Speaker 1: their new album Unlimited Love. Today you'll hear a very
Speaker 1: special conversation between Rick Rubin and Flee. Flee is one
Speaker 1: of the most iconic bass players of all time, and,
Speaker 1: along with singer Anthony ketis one of the all time
Speaker 1: great musical ambassadors of Los Angeles. He talks with Rick
Speaker 1: on today's episode about how he rocks started his way
Speaker 1: into usc to study music. Theory, remembers tearfully telling John
Speaker 1: Fruschante how much he missed playing together, and tells Rick
Speaker 1: why he reverts back to his fifteen year old self anytime.
Speaker 1: He argues with ketis this is broken record? Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's for the digital age. I'm just a mission.
Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin with Flee. Yo, Hi, Rack, How are
Speaker 1: you feeling good? Thank you? How are you? I'm very
Speaker 1: well pleasure seeing you man, Thank you. Do you want
Speaker 1: to just talk about what it was like going to
Speaker 1: the studio making the new album? Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: what to say. I mean, you know, we just did
Speaker 1: the work, you know, like, I don't know how it
Speaker 1: is for people who have never made records. But you
Speaker 1: just do the work man, you know, like all the homework,
Speaker 1: the countless hours that we spend a loan sitting in
Speaker 1: a room. You know, how can I contribute and following
Speaker 1: these feelings of something that makes us feel a certain way,
Speaker 1: like like I know for myself and for John and
Speaker 1: for Anthony, I mean, we all have a different way
Speaker 1: that we do it. But like they're just sit in
Speaker 1: a room at the piano and start hitting a thing
Speaker 1: until one point I'm hitting it in a way that
Speaker 1: hypnotizes me, that makes me feel like ah, like hit
Speaker 1: you know, and then it's beautiful. And the same thing
Speaker 1: with the bass, like this playing and like I played
Speaker 1: ten zillion basslines in my life, and when I start playing,
Speaker 1: when it's like, oh this is different than when I've
Speaker 1: played before. And I'm jeeling right now? Is Jewel coming
Speaker 1: down to my fucking belly? Because I'm gone and it
Speaker 1: takes me away, like it opens me up to a
Speaker 1: place that is beyond thought, beyond action. It's just me
Speaker 1: in touch with God, you know, me being completely present
Speaker 1: and complete as a human being in that moment. That's good.
Speaker 1: And it might not be the right thing for the band,
Speaker 1: and it's still like thing like coming in being kind
Speaker 1: of like, well, I got this, you guys, what do
Speaker 1: you think you know? And sometimes it's like, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if I feel that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I was like, Oh, I
Speaker 1: like still crest falling because I still care so much,
Speaker 1: and ultimately for us as a band, that's what really matters,
Speaker 1: as we still really care. And if this thing that
Speaker 1: we do was it all just as a means to
Speaker 1: an end to have to put out a record so
Speaker 1: we can do a big tour so we can have
Speaker 1: a hit, or so we can get this, or that
Speaker 1: we'd be fucked. There's no way we would be doing
Speaker 1: anything important or relevant in any way. But because we
Speaker 1: care deeply not only about the quality of the thing,
Speaker 1: but about the quality and the meaning and purpose in
Speaker 1: the process of making it, and like the thing of
Speaker 1: like this is a ritual that is a sacred ritual.
Speaker 1: When we go into work with you, when we go
Speaker 1: into work by ourselves alone at home, sitting alone, going
Speaker 1: into work with the collective every day, like this is
Speaker 1: a sacred ritual. We do this, we open ourselves up
Speaker 1: to channel something bigger than us, and to shape it
Speaker 1: into these songs and that process. You know, the fact
Speaker 1: that we all care deeply about that is why the
Speaker 1: music has thought and care and loving it. And for me,
Speaker 1: it's still deeply relevant to the universe, absolutely, And I
Speaker 1: think that's the reason that people resonate with it and
Speaker 1: have for so long, is that it's it's much bigger
Speaker 1: than any of the people involved. That we're tapping into
Speaker 1: something serious. Yeah, man, tell me about learning to play piano. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a slow process that you know. I'm still a
Speaker 1: humble student of it, you know, I guess like I
Speaker 1: still feel the same way at the base, I'm still
Speaker 1: a humble student of it. It was guess, gosh, Now
Speaker 1: it's like when did John quit the band in twenty
Speaker 1: ten something like that. Yeah, I was around then. And
Speaker 1: then about a year after that, I got the idea
Speaker 1: to go to college to university and study music. Ran
Speaker 1: I went. I kind of rock started my way into
Speaker 1: USC because I didn't have the high school grades from
Speaker 1: thirty years before to get in and got into the
Speaker 1: music program. Nan went and took theory and composition and
Speaker 1: jazz trumpet and just to do the theory homework, I
Speaker 1: had to sit at the piano because we were analyzing
Speaker 1: Bach chorls and stuff, and you had to read it
Speaker 1: and then write this sort of the numerical equation of
Speaker 1: how the music worked, like how the chords related to
Speaker 1: one another. And they were so great for me, just
Speaker 1: because I had never thought of music in any way
Speaker 1: other than you know, emotionally and intuitively. Was my complete
Speaker 1: relation to music. And I had, you know, the most
Speaker 1: minimal academic schooling, Like I knew what ancative was and
Speaker 1: knew what a scale was, but it was all feel
Speaker 1: for me. So to start thinking about it academically was
Speaker 1: such a beautiful way to engage my mind and made
Speaker 1: me start loving math for the first time and really
Speaker 1: seeing the magic and numbers. But but anyways, in order
Speaker 1: to do the to do that work, I needed to
Speaker 1: sit at the piano, and also in analyzing the Bach,
Speaker 1: which was kind of the crux of the academic studies,
Speaker 1: it made me fall in love with Box. So I
Speaker 1: started buying the most remedial Bach piano pieces and trying
Speaker 1: to learn them, and I think I like to hand
Speaker 1: in book and started just really loving the feeling of
Speaker 1: the piano under my fingers. And started playing it. And
Speaker 1: you know, whenever I have time, I play it. Oftentimes
Speaker 1: my work is too consuming for me to have the
Speaker 1: practice time. But it's just this ongoing thing. And it's
Speaker 1: funny how you ever, know, like when you're learning something
Speaker 1: new and you do it for a while and you start,
Speaker 1: you know, you're learning the technique to do it or
Speaker 1: figuring out how it works, and then you don't do
Speaker 1: it for a while, and then come back and somehow
Speaker 1: you're better, Like your brain has had like done these
Speaker 1: this work without you. Yes, Yeah, which is a really
Speaker 1: amazing thing about how the brain works like that, Like
Speaker 1: there's the conscious work that it does that you're aware of,
Speaker 1: and then there's all this subconscious work which is and
Speaker 1: that's like amazing to me. And I'm kind of like
Speaker 1: discovering that as I get older, that there's all this
Speaker 1: work going on that I don't know about, and it's
Speaker 1: such an amazing thing to witness to see. Would you
Speaker 1: say learning piano and music theory has impacted your bass
Speaker 1: playing enormously in what way? For one thing, having a
Speaker 1: richer understanding of how the baseline relates to the chords,
Speaker 1: then you start learning about chords and playing left hand
Speaker 1: and right hand together, so you're always interacting and you're
Speaker 1: realizing it's like stuff that I would do intuitively, but
Speaker 1: seeing how Okay, so it's a C chord If you're
Speaker 1: playing a G that's the fifth of the C, so
Speaker 1: you're all of a sudden a C cord is getting
Speaker 1: a different color because of what's in the base, and
Speaker 1: just being aware of how that's working, and just kind
Speaker 1: of having more of an understanding of not just kind
Speaker 1: of getting lucky if when I'm hitting what note against
Speaker 1: a chord even though luck isn't the right word because
Speaker 1: I'm still reaching for the color, but kind of going
Speaker 1: into it with a deeper understanding of what the chord
Speaker 1: is and what notes, you know, just kind of having
Speaker 1: an arsenal colors to paint with and just really helping
Speaker 1: me like that. So yeah, it really helps, And you know,
Speaker 1: obviously it's like oftentimes in my contribution to the Chili
Speaker 1: Peppers as a bass player, a lot of songs will
Speaker 1: start with a bassline or with a series of bass
Speaker 1: lines that go together to form different sections. And when
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of chords and what chords the basslines might
Speaker 1: imply while I'm doing it, it just helps me to
Speaker 1: create better baselines. Are there any songs on the new
Speaker 1: album that started with you at the piano? Yeah, bunch,
Speaker 1: Well not the one for sure. That was, you know,
Speaker 1: very chorded out on the piano, started with piano chords.
Speaker 1: First time you played that on piano for the rest
Speaker 1: of the band. What was that like? Well, I always
Speaker 1: get nervous when I bring a song in, especially on
Speaker 1: the piano, because you know, I'm not that adept at
Speaker 1: the piano. But I really felt good about it. I
Speaker 1: thought like, oh, this is I remember it like coming
Speaker 1: up with it, thinking like this is good for the band,
Speaker 1: like this is a beautiful thing. And now they were.
Speaker 1: They were very amendable to it from the beginning. It
Speaker 1: kind of changed over time, and I think what became
Speaker 1: the chorus was initially a bridge. I in my head,
Speaker 1: it was a bridge the way I had originally thought
Speaker 1: of it, but Anthony really liked singing a chorus part
Speaker 1: over it, and once we decided that was a chorus
Speaker 1: and not a bridge, then it kind of needed to
Speaker 1: change a little bit, and John had an idea to
Speaker 1: change the chords at the end of it. When it
Speaker 1: goes blues. Guys, I fall into da da da da,
Speaker 1: and it kind of has this descending chord pattern. John
Speaker 1: added that in there, and that really helped it a lot.
Speaker 1: At the end, you notice I played this little um
Speaker 1: bass melody, but edu da da da da, but edd
Speaker 1: d da dah. And originally for me, that was the
Speaker 1: vocal melody that I had in the verses, and in
Speaker 1: my head that was always it. But I didn't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, say to Anthony O, here's the vocal melody.
Speaker 1: I knew that he would want to come up with
Speaker 1: something and let him do it. But then when we
Speaker 1: were tracking it and I did the bass later, which
Speaker 1: is rare because normally I record the bass as one
Speaker 1: of the first things that we record with the basics,
Speaker 1: I just stuck it in there, snuck it in there
Speaker 1: at the end because I didn't want to lose it
Speaker 1: because I always liked that melody. But I guess it
Speaker 1: is kind of more of an instrumental melody. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy it made it into the song because
Speaker 1: I love that moment in the song. I feel like
Speaker 1: it's really beautiful part of the whole thing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a nice little out show, but yeah, no, it was
Speaker 1: good and you know, so oftentimes, like something the way
Speaker 1: I imagine something being is by myself when I'm coming
Speaker 1: up with it, compared to what it becomes once everyone
Speaker 1: starts putting your two cents in, is something much different
Speaker 1: than what I anticipated, And that's that's awesome. It's a
Speaker 1: trip in our band in the creative process, because we're
Speaker 1: all so different and have a different view of music,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, which is all intertwined with different
Speaker 1: worldviews and different views of ourself and different views of
Speaker 1: even what the band is, you know, and with John
Speaker 1: coming back to the band, who's you know, obviously a
Speaker 1: very powerful creative entity and an individual entity on his
Speaker 1: own knows who he is, you know, you know, in
Speaker 1: ways it can be difficult for all of us because
Speaker 1: we're all so different, and so we'll butt heads or
Speaker 1: have different opinions about stuff, but it's crucial to That's why,
Speaker 1: you know, what we're doing is so powerful, or for
Speaker 1: me it's powerful, is because we're all bringing something completely
Speaker 1: different and each thing is of a profound significance to
Speaker 1: the whole as opposed to someone you know, repeating what
Speaker 1: another guy thinks. So it's harder, but that's how it is. Good.
Speaker 1: When you first heard Anthony's melody for it, how did
Speaker 1: you feel about it? Great? I felt great, And because
Speaker 1: I was kind of waiting in my head, I was like,
Speaker 1: I under show him this vocal melody. But he came
Speaker 1: in I think, pretty quickly with it. Like I came
Speaker 1: in on the piano, and it was like a matter
Speaker 1: of days before he came in. It was like I
Speaker 1: want to sing over that thing, over that piano thing,
Speaker 1: and it was great for the beginning. And I'm always
Speaker 1: just so happy if I come something because oftentimes, you know,
Speaker 1: both for John and I, we come up with things
Speaker 1: instrumentally and that we really like. But you know, if
Speaker 1: Anthony doesn't feel something to sing on it, it's never
Speaker 1: going to become a song. Many many pieces of music
Speaker 1: I have just gone into the ether because you know,
Speaker 1: just he didn't feel it, and fair enough, you know.
Speaker 1: But so I'm always just really happy when he comes,
Speaker 1: you know, and does something. And when he does and
Speaker 1: he does something that I love, great, you know. And
Speaker 1: sometimes you'll do something to me like I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I really had imagine something else. But just because I
Speaker 1: imagined it doesn't mean that it's better, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's taken time for me to learn too. Like there's
Speaker 1: been many songs where like from my first gut reaction is, oh, no,
Speaker 1: it should be this other way. But it's something that's
Speaker 1: really beautiful that I just don't, you know, from my
Speaker 1: limited view. Let's talk more about this song. It's just
Speaker 1: interesting you you bring it in. You played on the piano.
Speaker 1: Did the ethereal guitar part happen next, or did the
Speaker 1: vocal melody come next? I think John started doing the
Speaker 1: ethereal guitar part right away, and that's something that's amazing
Speaker 1: about John. Like I came in with the chords, and
Speaker 1: pretty much, except for rare circumstances, he does the right
Speaker 1: thing right away. And even if I imagine something completely different,
Speaker 1: what he does is so beautiful and great and in
Speaker 1: touch with what I'm doing. Yeah, that it's just the
Speaker 1: right thing, And I think that happens if vice versa too.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's one of the things that we
Speaker 1: really love about playing with each other is we don't
Speaker 1: have to talk about it much. Once in a while
Speaker 1: it'd be like, oh, you know, I'm trying to accomplish
Speaker 1: this thing in this little part, so could you try
Speaker 1: doing this or that, but we do the right thing
Speaker 1: for the other guy's thing, and it's not a matter
Speaker 1: of like virtuoso musicianship or being a great musician or something.
Speaker 1: It's just like, I don't know if it's just similar
Speaker 1: reference points or either where or like sympathetic nervous systems
Speaker 1: or some sort of telepathic subconscious understanding that we have
Speaker 1: with one another, but we just do the right thing
Speaker 1: to compliment with the other guys playing. And he just
Speaker 1: started doing it right away, and it could have been
Speaker 1: something completely different, like like I actually made a demo
Speaker 1: for this song because it was like a couple of
Speaker 1: months we took off when the pandemic first happened and
Speaker 1: we were kind of like just stopped rehearsing because we're
Speaker 1: ever was trying to figure it out, you know, and
Speaker 1: I was making little demos in my garage and I
Speaker 1: had like a little beatbox and a you know, all
Speaker 1: these different things and which gave me an idea of
Speaker 1: what it would be. But it was completely different when
Speaker 1: he started playing and it became this real beautiful and
Speaker 1: an Anthony writes these lyrics that are you know, this
Speaker 1: really melancholy sort of yearning to you can say like
Speaker 1: I'm not the one you know that you're looking for,
Speaker 1: But underneath it, I feel this deep yearning like when
Speaker 1: is he going to be the fucking one? When is
Speaker 1: someone going to be the one? When can I find
Speaker 1: this togetherness with another human being? You know, which I
Speaker 1: feel is kind of a lyrical theme through about this record,
Speaker 1: you know, this like deep yearning to connect. I even
Speaker 1: had a stupid idea for the record to be to
Speaker 1: be called The Yearning, which was like, you know, it
Speaker 1: sounds like a fucking Disney Hallmark, you know special So
Speaker 1: you said he had you have like a almost a
Speaker 1: psychic connection with John when you guys play together. Has
Speaker 1: it been like that from the very beginning? Yes, I
Speaker 1: think that, you know. The only reason it ever wasn't
Speaker 1: like that, which would probably be like, you know, when
Speaker 1: he first joined and we made the first album, Mother's
Speaker 1: Milk is he was still super young, and I think
Speaker 1: the only thing that would get in the way of
Speaker 1: it being that is like kind of like tension or nervousness,
Speaker 1: like oh, what's the right thing to do and not
Speaker 1: trusting yourself yet. And I think it took him a while.
Speaker 1: He was so young, and he came in and we
Speaker 1: were already kind of a popular band, and I think he,
Speaker 1: you know, was just kind of concerned about, you know,
Speaker 1: how do I fit in, what do I do? What's
Speaker 1: the right thing to do? As opposed to just like
Speaker 1: letting go, which is by the time we started working
Speaker 1: with you on a next record, which was Blood Sugar
Speaker 1: Sex Magic, that was completely there, like he had let
Speaker 1: go of like worrying about what was right. It was
Speaker 1: just you know, letting his letting it flow, letting it
Speaker 1: letting God take over. How would you say your relationship
Speaker 1: with Anthony has changed over all the years that you
Speaker 1: know him? You know, Anthony since how old were you
Speaker 1: guys when you met fifteen and now we're you know,
Speaker 1: our next birthdays returned sixty? Wow? Yeah, the majority, the
Speaker 1: majority of your lives have been together. It's so crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean, our relationship has you know, grown and changed
Speaker 1: and been joyous and been tense and fraught with suffering
Speaker 1: and hurt and been accepting and like been through so
Speaker 1: many dynamics throughout the course of it. You know. So
Speaker 1: we meet him with fifteen and we become like inside
Speaker 1: pole every day we're together all day long, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like right after school, we get together,
Speaker 1: where we're gonna get some weed. What are we gonna do?
Speaker 1: What's the hustle today? Where we're gonna go steal something,
Speaker 1: where we're gonna go run around? You know, what the
Speaker 1: fuck are we gonna do. We're gonna do something. We're
Speaker 1: gonna do it. Do it just dumb shit and beautiful shit,
Speaker 1: like really loving the things that we love, the nature
Speaker 1: of the art, the music, the places where we connect,
Speaker 1: you know. And then we start the band when we're twenty,
Speaker 1: and it already seemed like at that age the years
Speaker 1: between fifteen and twenty a are huge. It's like a
Speaker 1: year of sixteen and seventeen and eighteen or like ten
Speaker 1: years now, you know what I mean in terms of,
Speaker 1: you know, because time actually does speed up, which is
Speaker 1: fucking insane, which I'm realizing it actually speeds up, like theoretically.
Speaker 1: I had heard that before, but now it's like I
Speaker 1: feel it so intensely. So it seemed like ages had
Speaker 1: gone by. Like when we started to band, it seemed
Speaker 1: like we had been friends for lifetimes. And then we
Speaker 1: start to band and we're still very much in that
Speaker 1: kind of street kid mentality. You know, everything's a hustle.
Speaker 1: Like I remember, like we started a band, like when
Speaker 1: we first like record companies wanted to sign us and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of later on and they're like taking
Speaker 1: us out to lunch, and we're still in the mindset
Speaker 1: of like hustling a lunch. So it's like getting like
Speaker 1: you know, different guys to take us out to lunch, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll get this guy on Tuesday, that guy Wednesday. Like
Speaker 1: we're still thinking, like let's get them to take us
Speaker 1: somewhere expensive. Like it's still this whole fucking thing of
Speaker 1: like not just like like what would be the best
Speaker 1: thing for our music at a record company, but like
Speaker 1: how many lunches can we get? We're still in this
Speaker 1: complete street kid like mentality, you know, like um let alone,
Speaker 1: like thinking the long term of like what's white business
Speaker 1: wise or music wise or anything, which is so funny
Speaker 1: to look back at. But in terms of our relationship,
Speaker 1: you know, creatively, it really hasn't changed, like the essence
Speaker 1: of what it is and what it's informed by, which
Speaker 1: is so much still and I think the longevity of
Speaker 1: it is so formed by those years as kids like
Speaker 1: kind of like growing up in our own weird misguided
Speaker 1: way without real mature guidance or like anyone holding our
Speaker 1: hands into like this is how you become a man,
Speaker 1: This is how you become a grown up. These are
Speaker 1: like the tenants of morality, and you know, like we
Speaker 1: just didn't, you know, And I don't think I even
Speaker 1: started growing up until I got sick in my early thirties,
Speaker 1: you know, to be honest, But it's still rooted in that,
Speaker 1: like when you're with someone and you're going through these
Speaker 1: big changes and even though you're confused and bewildered and
Speaker 1: also like kind of like bumbling around like just trying
Speaker 1: to avoid pain and go to pleasure, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like survival together. And something about
Speaker 1: that is really deep, you know. And I was kind
Speaker 1: of thinking this morning, like about how like as the
Speaker 1: years have gone by, there's been so many times and
Speaker 1: it was difficult between us, and I think it also
Speaker 1: works against us that child stuff, because we could get
Speaker 1: into like these scraps or be offended or hurt by
Speaker 1: one another in a way that's so fucking childish. It's
Speaker 1: like we revert back to being the like completely emotionally
Speaker 1: fragile and immature fifteen year olds in our fifties, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, we go back to that
Speaker 1: between us and it can be really difficult. And I
Speaker 1: think recently like we had something like that where we
Speaker 1: were doing that and it was like so painful, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'll go back and be like, fuck, I'm done,
Speaker 1: I'm out of here, and I can't deal with this
Speaker 1: fucking shit anymore. It fucked this guy, and I realize
Speaker 1: I'm acting like a child. But you know, because we're
Speaker 1: both acting like we go into this place, you know,
Speaker 1: and we kind of talked about it and we're like,
Speaker 1: you know, we do that, and we both acknowledged it,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, you know, we need to
Speaker 1: you know, we don't need to do that. I'll do
Speaker 1: it with other people, you know what I mean. Other
Speaker 1: people piss me off and do things that I that
Speaker 1: I find, you know what I mean, offenses, But with him,
Speaker 1: we go there. You know, it's like this constant argument,
Speaker 1: and so, you know, I always feel like we're growing.
Speaker 1: But you know I felt like that before. You're too.
Speaker 1: But I was thinking earlier today getting back. Sorry, there's
Speaker 1: so many tangents I could go down that the band
Speaker 1: being so successful, right, we've been the band's been together
Speaker 1: nearly forty years, and from the beginning, like to me,
Speaker 1: even though I know, like the real like business success
Speaker 1: and selling a lot of records didn't really happen, you know,
Speaker 1: until we had you know, made Blood Sugar and we
Speaker 1: sold you know, gazillion records. But for me, like from
Speaker 1: the first concert, we were wildly successful, beyond my dreams
Speaker 1: that I could ever imagine. Like I had been playing
Speaker 1: in bands before that and working hard, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'd go to my full time job all day, then
Speaker 1: go to rehearsal afterwards. Everything was like, yeah, come on,
Speaker 1: we got the gig and trying so hard, and from
Speaker 1: the first Chili Pepper gig where we had one song
Speaker 1: and played for like four minutes, the way that it
Speaker 1: fell between us and the way that it we connected
Speaker 1: with the audience and everything about it was like an
Speaker 1: explosion of success in the most like earth shattering way
Speaker 1: that I had never felt. That I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: And I played in fear. I was already playing big
Speaker 1: gigs with them, and like you know, it was like
Speaker 1: all at in an underground way. It was huge in
Speaker 1: la you know, but but all of a sudden it
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is like it was. We were done.
Speaker 1: It was completely successful at that point and never got
Speaker 1: more successful for me, you know, I can't speak for everyone.
Speaker 1: And then, you know, and then like right away, like
Speaker 1: within months, we were like selling out nightclubs, lines around
Speaker 1: the block to get in. We're playing with the Bad
Speaker 1: Brains and the Minute Men, these bands that I really loved.
Speaker 1: Record companies wanted to sign us. Emi Enigma signed us.
Speaker 1: Like everything that'd been struggling to try to make happen
Speaker 1: just happened effortlessly, and we just played and it was
Speaker 1: just like this this thing, you know. So anyways, success
Speaker 1: kept mounting, and then you know, we got gradually more
Speaker 1: and more popular, and then we made Blood Sugar. It
Speaker 1: really blew up and it became like an arena bandon
Speaker 1: this like really big rock band in more like a
Speaker 1: mainstream record selling way. And you know, I believe in God, Rick,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm not a religious man, you know me,
Speaker 1: but I pray every day, you know, I really like
Speaker 1: it's a big part of my life, my connection to
Speaker 1: the divine and nurturing that, and and I know that
Speaker 1: my life is going better when I'm staying in touch
Speaker 1: with you know, going trying to be inside and stay
Speaker 1: connected to that part of me and my relationship to God.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking this morning, like success is all
Speaker 1: fun and it's great. Look, I like making money as
Speaker 1: much as the next guy, and I like, you know,
Speaker 1: living in an ice house and buying a bitch and
Speaker 1: stereo and all this shit, But the real reason behind
Speaker 1: it with the band, I feel like, in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways like that God put me and Anthony together
Speaker 1: to learn some shit, and we're here together to figure
Speaker 1: something out in a way that at and like I think,
Speaker 1: I don't think, and I don't know. Obviously I don't know,
Speaker 1: but if the band hadn't been this thing where it
Speaker 1: was like really successful, we probably would have gone different
Speaker 1: ways a long time ago. You know, so many times
Speaker 1: I want to go join a fucking free jazz band
Speaker 1: and just play trumpet and and but it's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: there's all this work to do, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: There's another record to make, and there's a tour to
Speaker 1: do it. There's this to do, and oftentimes it's like
Speaker 1: grueling and painful, and like like my survival mechanism as
Speaker 1: a human, it is like, no, I don't want to
Speaker 1: go hurt myself. I'm okay, I can go to something
Speaker 1: else and grow creatively and like grow cerebrally in all
Speaker 1: these ways. But like success in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: has kept us there doing it. And it's not the
Speaker 1: rea is not like saying like we do it for
Speaker 1: the money, but it's like when there's when there's work
Speaker 1: to be done, you got to do it. And we're
Speaker 1: and we both have like very intense work ethics and
Speaker 1: disciplines in this sort of blue collar thing like that
Speaker 1: you do your work. You get up every day because
Speaker 1: you work what there's a mission to life, you know.
Speaker 1: And I kind of started seeing it in this divine
Speaker 1: way and it felt really beautiful, like there's a bigger
Speaker 1: picture and we're being put together to understand something, you know.
Speaker 1: And I remember once a long time ago, I went
Speaker 1: to go see this hypnotist and it might have been
Speaker 1: through you that you might have recommended me to this
Speaker 1: woman I can't remember in Santa Monica, and I went
Speaker 1: and lay on her couch, and I remember she got
Speaker 1: kind of frustrated with me because I didn't get hypnotized.
Speaker 1: And I was just too crazy to be hypnotized, Like
Speaker 1: my mom never fucking shut off. But she was like
Speaker 1: talking to me about stuff, and she was like go
Speaker 1: back in time, and I remember like like kind of
Speaker 1: being this like semi aware state and seeing me and
Speaker 1: Anthony like lifetimes and go lifetimes and lifetimes and lifetimes
Speaker 1: like a long time ago, and we're like fishing by
Speaker 1: this forest and we're dressed in like this like kind
Speaker 1: of like skins and shit, like animal skins, like having
Speaker 1: to survive like different caveman time, but not that far back,
Speaker 1: but something like that. And it's like something that we're
Speaker 1: supposed to figure out, and the universe puts us together
Speaker 1: to learn this ship and in this lifetime we've been
Speaker 1: put together to you know, by this circumstance. It's beautiful
Speaker 1: and it's interesting hearing you say that, because what I
Speaker 1: think about is the nature of your relationship with Anthony
Speaker 1: really isn't about music. Music's a part of it, but
Speaker 1: that's not what it's about. And it didn't start about music.
Speaker 1: It went on for five years before it became about
Speaker 1: music as a job. But it's it's more like almost
Speaker 1: like a karmic relationship, where as your relationship with John
Speaker 1: seems much more rooted in music. Absolutely talk about when
Speaker 1: ten or so year, ten or twelve years ago when
Speaker 1: John quit the band, What was the feeling, What was
Speaker 1: it like? You know, it's different because you quit. That
Speaker 1: was the second time he quit. And this is a
Speaker 1: crazy thing to say, but such a relief man because
Speaker 1: he was so unhappy, I see, and he's such a
Speaker 1: huge part of the band, and everything about it was
Speaker 1: making him unhappy. You know, he's so great at music
Speaker 1: and he sees so much at music that he didn't
Speaker 1: He was wanting to just do and you know, make
Speaker 1: his vision happen, and he didn't want to have to
Speaker 1: collaborate and listen to what someone else had to say
Speaker 1: that would be different than what he was thinking. And
Speaker 1: so it kind of caused a lot of tension for
Speaker 1: him and for everybody. And you know, I can't speak
Speaker 1: for him, but his yearning to leave and to grow
Speaker 1: in a different way away from the band was so
Speaker 1: powerful that when he left, it was like, Okay, the
Speaker 1: right thing is happening, you know. And both times it
Speaker 1: was like that. But the big difference is the first
Speaker 1: time he left where in Japan he leaves and it
Speaker 1: was so exhausting and stressful and everything not just you know,
Speaker 1: the band itself. It was really stressful for me at
Speaker 1: the time, but when he left, it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now what are we going to do to keep it going?
Speaker 1: And um, you know, we just you know, went through
Speaker 1: a different series of events, ended up with Dave and
Speaker 1: made another record, kept going and stuff. But this time
Speaker 1: when he left, I thought, my thought was it's over.
Speaker 1: I didn't think we would keep going because I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do it. It It doesn't make sense. I
Speaker 1: don't want to get someone else and go on without him,
Speaker 1: like we've done all this great work. And it also
Speaker 1: happened like before he left, I had we had had
Speaker 1: a thing I said, I want two years away from
Speaker 1: the band. I need I needed the time off, like
Speaker 1: I just knew for me too. And that was when
Speaker 1: I went to school just like did different creative projects,
Speaker 1: like just wanted to go and grow in a different way,
Speaker 1: in my own way. And I didn't think that the
Speaker 1: band would carry on without him. And time went by
Speaker 1: a year and a half. Maybe now everyone else wanted
Speaker 1: the band to keep going, and I remember kind of
Speaker 1: having like thinking like I just you know, I just
Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't think, And then it just started
Speaker 1: making sense to do it, like everything, like my relationship
Speaker 1: with Anthony. The band itself is a thing, like I remember,
Speaker 1: like like a big thing was people saying to me like, oh,
Speaker 1: we like you know, we we do so many fundraisers
Speaker 1: and things, and like someone said, like and like I
Speaker 1: started seeing, like, God, how valuable the band is not
Speaker 1: just for you know, our personal success or for making
Speaker 1: people happy, because it brings joy to the world. The
Speaker 1: bands a light, but just like that as a thing,
Speaker 1: like as an entity that really gives love and goodness
Speaker 1: to the world, which maybe sometimes I can't see because
Speaker 1: of all the work that can be really grueling, and
Speaker 1: but like I can, I can see it really clearly,
Speaker 1: like when someone saying, oh, will you do my thing
Speaker 1: to help hungry people, like oh shit, oh, we don't
Speaker 1: have the band going right now, I can't do that,
Speaker 1: And that kind of is being like that where I'm
Speaker 1: seeing it really clearly. But that element of it is
Speaker 1: there all the time, even if it's not a fund asure.
Speaker 1: And that started becoming clear to me. And I was
Speaker 1: just like, like I was doing some other creative project
Speaker 1: and it was good, like we were we were making
Speaker 1: music that I liked, and then thinking like, shit, man,
Speaker 1: I really want to bring this energy to the band
Speaker 1: and make the Chili Peppers happen. We can do this.
Speaker 1: And I remember like something clicking in my mind, like
Speaker 1: I got really excited about it again, and then um,
Speaker 1: you know, went to Anthony and you know, he was
Speaker 1: into it, and we did it. We got Josh. Did
Speaker 1: you keep up with John during the whole time that
Speaker 1: he was not in the group? Yes, both times and
Speaker 1: not not not consistently because it's you know, to be
Speaker 1: a little awkward stuff, you know, but mostly like the
Speaker 1: second time, like, as you know, we went on without him,
Speaker 1: and I didn't think that I would, and I told
Speaker 1: and I told him too, I'm not going to go
Speaker 1: on without you. And I felt like, like god, I
Speaker 1: kind of betrayed what I said, you know, But then
Speaker 1: I decided, you know, and I made the decision to
Speaker 1: do it. You know, people change their minds. I changed
Speaker 1: my mind. You know a lot of our most popular
Speaker 1: songs were musically initiated by him and created like in
Speaker 1: the large part by a musical idea that he initiated,
Speaker 1: and here were do it like going and doing it
Speaker 1: with someone else. But so I was torn in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, you know, in that way, And I
Speaker 1: guess it wasn't so much that like that was my
Speaker 1: first thing, but then it just felt like in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, like you know, we're having someone else
Speaker 1: play his ship all the time, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and like like getting together and playing recently with him.
Speaker 1: You know, we're rehearsing right now to go on tour,
Speaker 1: and we're you know, when we play the older songs,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh shit, now we're doing it for real.
Speaker 1: We're not doing like the cover version, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And that's an extreme way of saying it.
Speaker 1: It was never the cover version, but like in that way,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like, oh, now the real guys playing
Speaker 1: the real shit. And there's nothing against Josh because Josh
Speaker 1: honored it in a beautiful way. And I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: for Josh, and I love the stuff that we wrote
Speaker 1: with Josh too, and loved Josh, like not only was
Speaker 1: he a great musician, he's a very supportive team member
Speaker 1: for us, but yeah, when he left, you know, first
Speaker 1: a relief and then as it went on to like
Speaker 1: the initial relief of like you know, the tension at
Speaker 1: the time, but both times, as and particularly this time
Speaker 1: as time went by, like just real something that had
Speaker 1: peaked around the time he came back like this yearning
Speaker 1: for that effortless connection, that thing we're talking about earlier,
Speaker 1: you know, because with Josh it was like, yes, Josh
Speaker 1: a great musician, but there was oftentimes a lot of
Speaker 1: talking about what to do. Can we try this, can
Speaker 1: we try that? Can we do this? You know, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, not wanting to be offensive,
Speaker 1: can you try doing it in this other way? And
Speaker 1: him for the same way with me, I'm not saying like,
Speaker 1: oh he didn't understand, like I didn't understand, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like he would play something and I
Speaker 1: was like, well, what's the right thing for me to
Speaker 1: do here? And that's just different reference points, different nervous systems,
Speaker 1: different things that you can't control, and like spirit things
Speaker 1: that I don't think we understand or you know, or
Speaker 1: that I don't at least like you know, so, you know,
Speaker 1: just really wishing for that effortless connection. And as soon
Speaker 1: as John came back, it's there, like every time I've
Speaker 1: come in with something, you know, like something that starts
Speaker 1: with a bassline, you know, not from a piano, and
Speaker 1: it's like John is the perfect thing from the beginning,
Speaker 1: like boom done. There it is. They don't have to
Speaker 1: talk about it. It's just a knowing. It's a gut
Speaker 1: reaction in your kidneys. Yeah, tell me about the first
Speaker 1: time that you played with John before he rejoined. What
Speaker 1: was that experience, Like, when was it and what was it? Like?
Speaker 1: I think that I can't remember the first thing, but
Speaker 1: I remember like he and I were talking about some jazz.
Speaker 1: He was really loving Charlie Christian, you know, but jazz
Speaker 1: guitarist you played in Benny Goodman's group. Yeah, And there
Speaker 1: was a couple of songs he was learning and he
Speaker 1: was like, let's play some of this jazz and it
Speaker 1: was just fun, you know, it's just fun to play
Speaker 1: that stuff. And then I think like he was recording
Speaker 1: something with some breakbeats and I came in and played
Speaker 1: on it at his house. Yeah, those were the first
Speaker 1: time and like within the context of doing that, I
Speaker 1: think we just sat there and jammed a little bit.
Speaker 1: This easy man like just it was never like there's
Speaker 1: something like big like the Clouds parting or anything, like
Speaker 1: just a couple of guys hanging out playing no big deal.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember any specific, like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just nice and easy. Man. We kind of eased
Speaker 1: into it. John had the idea like, let's not start
Speaker 1: trying to write anything. Let's place play, hang out and
Speaker 1: play covers. That was fun. Yeah, how did you get
Speaker 1: to the stage of feeling like maybe we should talk
Speaker 1: about doing this again. Yeah, there was a specific moment
Speaker 1: John and Marcy came over for dinner one night, we
Speaker 1: can't remember, like either our girlfriends were talking in the
Speaker 1: other room or something, and we were just talking about shit.
Speaker 1: Nice said sometimes I really missed playing with you. And
Speaker 1: when I said it, I couldn't help it. I just
Speaker 1: started sobbing. I started crying, like and he looked at
Speaker 1: me and I saw tears in his eyes too, and
Speaker 1: I and He's like me too, you know, one of
Speaker 1: those things. It was just kind of beyond words or
Speaker 1: thoughts or anything like that, just love, beautiful. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then we didn't really talk about it again for a while.
Speaker 1: And I remember seeing Anthony after that and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that John would come back and
Speaker 1: play with us, you know, And at first we're kind
Speaker 1: of like, whoa, that's heavy, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Because we're like full steam ahead with Josh. You know,
Speaker 1: I kind of remember when that was. We're like right around,
Speaker 1: We're like playing the Grammys with post Malone or some shit,
Speaker 1: you know. And then you know, shortly after that, like
Speaker 1: time went by, we were right and we were writing
Speaker 1: a record, a new record, and I think at a
Speaker 1: certain point we were like looking at what we had
Speaker 1: might have played some of it for you, I think,
Speaker 1: and feeling like, yeah, you know, we're doing it, but
Speaker 1: I just felt like we were missing something, and I don't,
Speaker 1: you know, I look, I liked the ship we made
Speaker 1: with Josh, I really do, you know, And I think
Speaker 1: and then I jammed with John once or twice. It
Speaker 1: was just like that effortless thing. I wish I could
Speaker 1: explain it articulated Rick, you know, like, but it's just this.
Speaker 1: The best way I can say it is like what
Speaker 1: I said before, We don't have to talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you remember how Anthony reacted when you said it
Speaker 1: first time? I think a little taken aback at very first,
Speaker 1: like because it's such a huge change. But you know
Speaker 1: then that that shifted and I was like, you want
Speaker 1: me to talk to him for real and find out
Speaker 1: you know, and he was like yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: went over to John's once again and sat with him
Speaker 1: and asked him, said, you know, will you come back?
Speaker 1: And he said, let me think about it. And he
Speaker 1: thought about it for you know, I don't I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened in his head. But within
Speaker 1: a within a day or two, it was like yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, and and and you know, there was
Speaker 1: something that he was concerned about, you know, like because
Speaker 1: I obviously when he left it was painful for him,
Speaker 1: not just us, you know, it was painful for him,
Speaker 1: of course. And I can't speak from that side of it,
Speaker 1: you know, I can only imagine it's a massive change,
Speaker 1: you know, and how you spend your days and the
Speaker 1: anchors in your life and what you work towards and
Speaker 1: what you do, and sometimes you get everything you want.
Speaker 1: But you know, and I think it's good for him
Speaker 1: to do what he needs to do. But he also
Speaker 1: remember him telling me like, I'm born to be the
Speaker 1: guitar player in the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I'm the
Speaker 1: guy that's supposed to be in this band. Like that's
Speaker 1: just the truth. And yeah, so we you know, we
Speaker 1: kind of went through that's kind of like like, well,
Speaker 1: it would it be, would it hurt? Would it not hurt?
Speaker 1: You know, what would we do to make it not hurt?
Speaker 1: And I'm like this and I need this or that
Speaker 1: and it's all good, you know, Like I'm a human
Speaker 1: being who loves to do music and me too on
Speaker 1: this whole process, like this record with John, Like man,
Speaker 1: he's fucking good and the best way. He's just so
Speaker 1: fucking good at music. But also he's so humble now
Speaker 1: and he could easily not be, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And all the things that he's doing, like all the
Speaker 1: great synthesizer work, all the ideas about mixes and sonic
Speaker 1: ideas and when to use reverbs or backward reverbs or
Speaker 1: what to do, like all his like big picture of
Speaker 1: music is so profound he does so much, Like the
Speaker 1: background vocals he does so beautiful and just knocks him
Speaker 1: the fuck out he does it. He's all like really
Speaker 1: humble and really open to having faith and honoring other
Speaker 1: people's ideas as well. I never am working with him
Speaker 1: where I don't feel seen or heard or valued, and
Speaker 1: that's a beautiful feeling. Do you remember when you first
Speaker 1: heard all of the lyrics that Anthony wrote for this album.
Speaker 1: What you're feeling was when he saw what he was writing.
Speaker 1: You know, I always am struck first by the melodies
Speaker 1: and by the rhythmic phrasing, like the musicality of it,
Speaker 1: And it didn't really hit home until you know, you
Speaker 1: guys went to Hawaii and started doing the vocals, because
Speaker 1: I'd heard him and always thought, Wow, he's really doing
Speaker 1: good shit. But when I started really hearing it and
Speaker 1: you guys working together in the vocals coming back, how
Speaker 1: evolved and how focused and how great he's done, Like
Speaker 1: this is just the best he's ever done. I feel like,
Speaker 1: by light years, like he's just fucking killing it, man.
Speaker 1: And Anthony is amazing in that way. And I've said
Speaker 1: this on other records that the fact that he started
Speaker 1: off in the band is not really being a singer
Speaker 1: and in the beginning like really having a difficult time
Speaker 1: carrying a tune in pitch and you know, just kind
Speaker 1: of like rapping and yelling and then turning into melodies
Speaker 1: and slowly evolving. Like I think that has everything to
Speaker 1: do with the longevity of the band, and I think
Speaker 1: that he's like he has everything to do with the
Speaker 1: longevity of the band because he's such a like this
Speaker 1: is my job, this is what we like the story idea.
Speaker 1: My mother worked at the same job for fifty years,
Speaker 1: like me too, you know what I mean. Like he
Speaker 1: has that real like blue collar thing about it. But
Speaker 1: his evolution as a singer, it's like this thing that
Speaker 1: every time it's better. Where most guys like usually as
Speaker 1: they get older, and obviously not the case, but a
Speaker 1: lot of guys start off as great singers and they
Speaker 1: just have this natural skill. They could just fucking sing,
Speaker 1: and twenty thirty years in they're just kind of like
Speaker 1: trying to recreate what they did when they were twenty,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Whereas Anthony is not. He's
Speaker 1: always going to something new and getting better and learning
Speaker 1: to sing. He's like the student of being a vocalist
Speaker 1: and his musicality, his sense of rhythm and phrasing his
Speaker 1: and the lyrics on this record. It always takes me
Speaker 1: a while with the lyrics, like especially the way that
Speaker 1: Anthony writes, like he's not like a narrative type of singer,
Speaker 1: very rarely is. He speaks in metaphors, and it takes
Speaker 1: me a while for them to sing cannon to start
Speaker 1: making sense to me. And also he's very verbose, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So there's a lot of words
Speaker 1: and a lot of times for me at first, just
Speaker 1: kind of the color of the words and how they
Speaker 1: sit next to one another, and how they make me
Speaker 1: feel that way, like the juxtaposition of words as opposed
Speaker 1: to the un the real lyrical poetic content of the thing. Time,
Speaker 1: you know, they sink into me over time. Some of
Speaker 1: the songs when he was working on the on singing
Speaker 1: in the studio and I'm listening to them, I'm listening
Speaker 1: to the cool nature of the phrases, like the phrases
Speaker 1: are cool, and the melody's good, and I'm and I'm
Speaker 1: liking it. But as you say, on the surface, you
Speaker 1: can't always hear what's happening. And I'm listening, and I'm
Speaker 1: listening and over the course of the day, and I'll
Speaker 1: be singing a song and then at one point it
Speaker 1: like clicks in. It's like, oh, this is what this
Speaker 1: is about, and I start crying because it's so heavy.
Speaker 1: It's like it's so sad. Some of them are so
Speaker 1: sad and heavy, heavy and sad and lonesome, and you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: sometimes they're really light and whimsical and fun, you know,
Speaker 1: but it just gets me wondering, like when he's writing
Speaker 1: about that stuff or here, you know, his relationship to
Speaker 1: the world and to his heart, and like I wonder
Speaker 1: if he always knows, you know what I mean, when
Speaker 1: he's putting the words together, really what he's writing about,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Or does it take shape
Speaker 1: as he starts putting down the words, like does he
Speaker 1: just have like a phrase that fascinates him and does
Speaker 1: you start coloring around it and filling in putting together
Speaker 1: this thing and does the like the real emotional underpinning
Speaker 1: of it, does it take shape? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like like sometimes you know, you put something together just
Speaker 1: how you're feeling in that moment, and you don't even
Speaker 1: maybe you don't even really know. It starts on a
Speaker 1: subconscious level and then maybe there are enough clues from
Speaker 1: what's there to see, Oh, this is this is what
Speaker 1: this is about. I could go further in this direction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, having never you know, sat with him through
Speaker 1: that process, I don't know, and you have sat with
Speaker 1: him through that process, like watched him. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: more like I'm with him the day it happens, but
Speaker 1: he's usually doing homework up until the time that we meet.
Speaker 1: And then he comes in and he, you know, presents
Speaker 1: where it has and we talk about is it you know,
Speaker 1: does everything work as well as it can? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean I wonder if you know. I guess all lyricists
Speaker 1: are different. I remember one time I did this, did
Speaker 1: this record? I don't think. I can't remember if you
Speaker 1: produced it or not. I don't think you did. Did
Speaker 1: you the ll cool Jay thing for the Howard Sterns soundtrack? Yeah? Okay, so,
Speaker 1: and I can't remember if you were in the room
Speaker 1: when this happened or not. But we're getting ready to
Speaker 1: track it, and I'm sitting there with LLL and he
Speaker 1: didn't have lyrics yet. He might have had like a
Speaker 1: I think he had a course line. I make my
Speaker 1: own rules. It was the chorus line. And I'm sitting there,
Speaker 1: like literally sitting next to him, and he's got a
Speaker 1: pen in the paper and he starts writing the lyrics
Speaker 1: and he started with just sounds ah oh ah, like
Speaker 1: what how and rhythmic phrase of almost like grunts and
Speaker 1: just rhythm and sylla syllabelic sounds, and then he started like,
Speaker 1: so it's ah a word that has an ad has
Speaker 1: an ooh, and but then started doing it and putting
Speaker 1: just words together and writing lines around that and then
Speaker 1: it but it formed a narrative in a story and
Speaker 1: a whole thing like rife with like current events and
Speaker 1: philosophy and his ideas you know of him. And it
Speaker 1: was so amazing to watch him do it, and also
Speaker 1: that he was so free to like just do it
Speaker 1: in front of me like that, like like kind of
Speaker 1: like letting me watch him. And I was amazed by it.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean, I don't know how Anthony
Speaker 1: does it. I don't know, but he fucking rocked it
Speaker 1: on this album. Man, he really it's the best he's
Speaker 1: ever done. He's singing beautifully, like really like and he's
Speaker 1: doing it rehearsal too, Like this is no studio magic.
Speaker 1: Like he's fucking singing this ship. So the longevity in
Speaker 1: the band, you know, has everything to do with his
Speaker 1: constant evolution as a singer. You know, like he's always
Speaker 1: I feel like he's there's always something around the band.
Speaker 1: It's more more expansive. There's also that like the pride
Speaker 1: in the work that you guys have. Nothing is ever
Speaker 1: phoned into any degree. The fact that we recorded probably
Speaker 1: close to fifty songs and that Anthony wrote and sang
Speaker 1: fifty songs knowing fifty songs were not going to be
Speaker 1: on the album, but because he wanted whatever was on
Speaker 1: the album to be the best that could be. And
Speaker 1: we'll only know that if he does all the work
Speaker 1: of doing all fifty songs, and even if there's an
Speaker 1: instrumental track that he's having trouble with, he's going to
Speaker 1: fight with it forever until he gets something because he
Speaker 1: sees potential in it and wants it to be all
Speaker 1: that it could be. And it's a real commitment to
Speaker 1: doing whatever it takes to be as good as it
Speaker 1: could be. That, when you know, for a band that's
Speaker 1: been around for forty years, is unusual. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I can't compare it to other bands because I don't
Speaker 1: know so, but you do know because you work with
Speaker 1: lots of different bands phenomenal like like especially to hear
Speaker 1: you put it like that, like fuck, he didn't just
Speaker 1: like phone in some like let me get this one
Speaker 1: could be really good. I'm gonna do this one like
Speaker 1: he took the one that was weird and did the
Speaker 1: best thing that he could and found something that really
Speaker 1: made it work and turned it into a song. Yeah, amazing,
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. Talk about the difference between playing with Chad
Speaker 1: versus playing with anybody else in the Chili Peppers, Well,
Speaker 1: but Shot, it's funny because you know, my relationship with
Speaker 1: Anthony is very personal and very much brother like, and
Speaker 1: my relationship with John is also very personal, very emotional,
Speaker 1: very intuitive, very connected. But my relationship Chad is like, like,
Speaker 1: we don't hang out outside of the band, never have.
Speaker 1: I'd probably been to his house once, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like this different thing, but it's just
Speaker 1: this very grounded, rhythmic thing. It's like there's no bullshit
Speaker 1: about it, you know what I mean, there's no not
Speaker 1: that the other ones have bullshit on them either, but
Speaker 1: it's just like we get down, we look at each
Speaker 1: other and that's how we talk. We very rarely do
Speaker 1: we speak about things that, you know, about emotional things,
Speaker 1: or about spiritual things, or about even things that trouble
Speaker 1: us or or your you know, that we aspire to.
Speaker 1: It's just just we get down and fucking hammer out
Speaker 1: some grooves, you know, and it's cool. I remember like
Speaker 1: once Chadas I've might have been a fiftieth birthday like
Speaker 1: ten years ago or something, and his wife went and
Speaker 1: like had someone come in film everybody talking about Chad
Speaker 1: for his birthday thing. And I remember feeling kind of
Speaker 1: like weird because I was like, well, I don't talk
Speaker 1: with Chad personally about stuff. And I almost was like
Speaker 1: embarrassed because there was like, you know, like well back
Speaker 1: when we were twenty one, I'm gonna tell this funny story,
Speaker 1: but like there wasn't this other thing, and I kind
Speaker 1: of said, look, chat and I we don't really speak
Speaker 1: emotionally about these things that I would normally talk about.
Speaker 1: Under these circumstances. We talk by playing. We talk by
Speaker 1: like looking at each other and knowing when to lay
Speaker 1: back into a groove, or knowing when to lean forward
Speaker 1: and knowing when to sit right in the middle, or
Speaker 1: knowing when he should lay back and I should lean forward,
Speaker 1: or vice versa, like all these intricacies of rhythm which
Speaker 1: color a song so profoundly, Like the way I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, man, you sit there and go and listen
Speaker 1: to rhythms, especially live musicians. Whichever way some person is
Speaker 1: leaning changes everything, and we do all this stuff just
Speaker 1: by looking at each other. And afterwards, I said, like,
Speaker 1: why the fuck should I feel like that's less significant
Speaker 1: then speaking or talking about you know, our fucking inner
Speaker 1: child or some shit like that. Is a beautiful conversation
Speaker 1: that Chad and I share and I'm so grateful for that,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's the way that we are, and
Speaker 1: that's what it is, and that's awesome. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like when you play with Chad it brings something to
Speaker 1: the way you play that's different if you're playing with
Speaker 1: anybody else? Totally? Chad is so powerful, like physically powerful
Speaker 1: on the drums and the dynamic like that he can
Speaker 1: go to the potential of where he can go is
Speaker 1: so like like I've heard of elephants, Like the physical
Speaker 1: power and volume and strength of where he can go
Speaker 1: is always there. So it's always coloring that if you want,
Speaker 1: I can look at him and be like, here we go, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I know that he
Speaker 1: is going to explode like a fucking nuclear bomb. I'd
Speaker 1: better be ready to handle it, you know, And and
Speaker 1: also like, hey, it's time to get you know, really
Speaker 1: subtle and quiet and beautiful. He can go there too,
Speaker 1: like he's so dynamic, so it makes me just get
Speaker 1: downe with him. And he's also like she has a
Speaker 1: very meat and potatoes drummer, like a real rock drummer,
Speaker 1: like you know, a bottom style, you know, a big
Speaker 1: kick on the one, big snail on the two and
Speaker 1: the four. You know, like that he can lay that
Speaker 1: down heavier than any drummer I've ever felt before in
Speaker 1: my life. It gives me so many options, Like I
Speaker 1: can get in there with him on that one, you know,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it's just heavy, like heavy ocity.
Speaker 1: Or I can dance around, you know, in between it,
Speaker 1: you know, and it does something completely different, you know
Speaker 1: if I go and syncopated in between the holes, you know,
Speaker 1: so it just opens so much up, you know, whereas
Speaker 1: I you know, I've been fortunate in my life to
Speaker 1: play with like really great drummers, a variety of and
Speaker 1: it makes me play completely differently depending on who I'm
Speaker 1: playing with, you know, Like I play with Tony Allen,
Speaker 1: like the afrobeat guy, and he doesn't like anyone going
Speaker 1: away from his kick, Like don't dancer around a kick,
Speaker 1: play on a kick, white boy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like don't come with some bullshit, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I you know, I love Tony, so I don't want
Speaker 1: to I'm gonna do what he says. You know. It's
Speaker 1: like I get mad dogged by Tony Allen, you know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so yeah, playing Chad makes me, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's the sound. That a sound of the Chili Peppers,
Speaker 1: and you know, of that rhythm. Let's talk about you
Speaker 1: so you can make a face and inspire Chad to
Speaker 1: go heavy. Talk about how it works live, because one
Speaker 1: of the things that's fascinating about the Chili Peppers compared
Speaker 1: to pretty much any popular band today is that when
Speaker 1: you guys play, it is of this fluid thing. It's
Speaker 1: not like you play the songs the same way every
Speaker 1: single night. It's like you guys jam and things can
Speaker 1: go longer or things can go shorter. And you've in
Speaker 1: the past have gone on stage and are playing where
Speaker 1: no one knows what you're gonna you know, none of
Speaker 1: the individual members knows what's going to happen. Someone just
Speaker 1: starts playing something and something happens. You do that a
Speaker 1: lot all the time. So beyond the musical conversation that
Speaker 1: we hear, talk about you John and Chad looking at
Speaker 1: each other and playing what happens? Who leads? And can
Speaker 1: all three of you lead at different times? How does
Speaker 1: that work? Yeah? Definitely, all three of us can lead
Speaker 1: at different times. And it's trusting yourself. Like that sort
Speaker 1: of really comes down to, is trusting yourself. And the
Speaker 1: more that you can learn to trust yourself and love
Speaker 1: yourself and know that what you're feeling, whether it's emotionally
Speaker 1: or spiritual or cerebral, that that's who you are and
Speaker 1: who you are as of value and trusting the other
Speaker 1: guys to do something that's who they are. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of the crux of everything with us because that's
Speaker 1: where like a lot of the songs come from, jams
Speaker 1: like that. And when we're doing that, we're listening. You know,
Speaker 1: you really gotta fucking listen. You can't just blunder ahead,
Speaker 1: like just play a song. It's painting by numbers, dude,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying, like a song is a vehicle
Speaker 1: for a beautiful connection and emotion to happen. And you know,
Speaker 1: I believe in the power ever song. But if you're
Speaker 1: just like going out and playing the same shit every night, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's boring. For the musician. You know, it can work
Speaker 1: well if you're good at it fair enough, you know,
Speaker 1: but there's no element of risk. There's no element of danger,
Speaker 1: there's no chance to fail. And if I don't, if
Speaker 1: I go to see someone play, and if I don't
Speaker 1: think they're doing something that they might fail at because
Speaker 1: they're reaching, I'm bored. I just don't fucking care. And
Speaker 1: I mean I get it, like I'll go see a band,
Speaker 1: they'll play a song that I love, and it's just
Speaker 1: great that they're playing the song. But Neil Young, you
Speaker 1: know people that I really admire even great great you know,
Speaker 1: electronic musicians are always mixing it up and doing weird shit.
Speaker 1: But with us, in terms of the way that we
Speaker 1: relate to one another, I guess the best way that
Speaker 1: I can articulate it is listening and trusting. And you know,
Speaker 1: whoever starts something, you know, get inside what they're doing,
Speaker 1: Listen to what they're doing, where they're going, you know
Speaker 1: what mode are they in? Like it's there's so many
Speaker 1: things that have to happen quick in your mind, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what key is it in? What rhythm is he playing?
Speaker 1: Am I going to come at it and just play
Speaker 1: something completely opposite to it to like, if John's playing
Speaker 1: something fast, we all do something really slow. It's like
Speaker 1: a bath for that fast thing to relax. And or
Speaker 1: maybe I'll go really fast right with him and we'll
Speaker 1: be playing together. It's jagged rhythm that's intense. Or I'll
Speaker 1: go really fast completely against him. That'll create a counterpoint
Speaker 1: that's a whole new rhythm. And then what Chad does.
Speaker 1: Does you do a halftime beater or of fast beat
Speaker 1: or just hits you know what I mean? No matter
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, and we might completely fall on
Speaker 1: our faces and it'll suck, or we might play the
Speaker 1: greatest thing we've ever played in our lives in that moment,
Speaker 1: and all of it's worth the risk, you know. And
Speaker 1: if you don't take the risk, you don't get it. Period. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Talk about the Silver Lake Conservatory, Oh thank you. The
Speaker 1: Silver Lake Conservatory is a nonprofit music school I started
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Now we teach about eight hundred kids
Speaker 1: a week. And we started off in a little storefront
Speaker 1: where we were for the first fifteen years, and we
Speaker 1: had eight private lesson rooms and we'd like rent out
Speaker 1: different spaces around town or for our group classes like
Speaker 1: choir and orchestra and all the contemporary groups. And after
Speaker 1: raising money for like fifteen years, we finally bought a
Speaker 1: really huge, big building up on Hollywood and Vermont and
Speaker 1: now we have a big recital hall and four group
Speaker 1: classrooms and twelve private lesson rooms. It's been so great
Speaker 1: Rick these last twenty years. It's just given me so much,
Speaker 1: Like I get so much joy from it. I really
Speaker 1: thrive in being part of a community and feel like
Speaker 1: I'm doing something for a community. And I guess like
Speaker 1: essentially that's kind of like how I look at playing
Speaker 1: music too, even though like I said before, like sure,
Speaker 1: I like making money and all that, but when I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing something that brings community together and
Speaker 1: helps in that way, I feel a great sense of purpose.
Speaker 1: So like I get, I really get a lot from
Speaker 1: it selfishly, and I love it. And just like seeing
Speaker 1: the kids grow up, Like now that we've been around
Speaker 1: for so long, I'll like go to the grocery store
Speaker 1: and run into somebody who's like, you know, thirty five
Speaker 1: years old, an adult. I'd be like, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I went to my school when I was a little kid,
Speaker 1: and you know, really set me up with my friends
Speaker 1: that I have now my best friends. We all met
Speaker 1: at the school and we sang in the choir together
Speaker 1: and you know, we had a band for a while.
Speaker 1: It didn't work out. Now I'm up whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm a graphic design or something. But it's so nice
Speaker 1: to feel that like it. It moves me, you know,
Speaker 1: to have that connection to community and feel like I'm
Speaker 1: of you sit in that way makes me really happy.
Speaker 1: What age are the people who come to learn to
Speaker 1: play little kids? Like? We don't have an age limit,
Speaker 1: like the things. You have to be able to take
Speaker 1: care of an instrument and be diligent enough to practice
Speaker 1: it to do their work. That's the only requirement. So
Speaker 1: some kids can do that when they're five. Some kids
Speaker 1: can't do that till at fifteen, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So or never, you know, So it's all different. The
Speaker 1: majority of students are between the ages of around like
Speaker 1: eleven years old and eighteen like in there, But we
Speaker 1: have lots of elderly people that come to play and
Speaker 1: real little kids. And if you qualify for lunch tickets
Speaker 1: at school, you go for free and we give you
Speaker 1: an instrument and otherwise, you know, you pay, but it's
Speaker 1: just awesome. And I'm actually in the process of a
Speaker 1: few other people starting a new one in Watts, which
Speaker 1: is really rewarding as well. The thing that I like
Speaker 1: about it, and I guess it's the thing that I
Speaker 1: like about music too, is that my hope is like
Speaker 1: and I feel like I've accomplished this with the Silver
Speaker 1: Late Conservatory, is that long after I'm not I'm gone,
Speaker 1: it will be a music school there and kids can
Speaker 1: go in there and learn how to play, you know,
Speaker 1: Benny Goodman stuff on the clarinet. And you know, one
Speaker 1: of our purposes too, is not just a place for
Speaker 1: kids to learn music, but a place for teachers to teach,
Speaker 1: which is just as important for a teacher to have
Speaker 1: the purpose of teaching, you know, and to this knowledge
Speaker 1: to keep being handed down. And you know, we care
Speaker 1: about keeping the traditional instruments alive and you know, teaching
Speaker 1: theobo in a bassoon, in the French horn of the
Speaker 1: viola and all those things. And it's fun. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's just fun. How did you get the ideas started?
Speaker 1: I had it in my head for a while just
Speaker 1: because it just kind of seemed like a good idea,
Speaker 1: and then like a year before it opened. Remember, i'd
Speaker 1: like be dealing with a heartbreak of some variety, and
Speaker 1: I went down to Mexico by myself and I was
Speaker 1: reading a book by a great jazz musician named Horace
Speaker 1: tap Scott, and it's a great book just for reading.
Speaker 1: You'd love it. He wrote a book called Songs of
Speaker 1: the Unsung. You know, his story is really great. As
Speaker 1: an LA jazz musician and at one point he got
Speaker 1: an idea to start a music school in South LA.
Speaker 1: It was just, you know, for all the kids in
Speaker 1: the community in South LA. And he started having this
Speaker 1: orchestra called the Orchestra and all he had really also
Speaker 1: great adult musicians in it too, and then when kids
Speaker 1: were good enough, they would join it and they played
Speaker 1: every weekend in Lamert Park at World Stage and did
Speaker 1: concerts and it was a real just a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: And his was like music and also literature and poetry
Speaker 1: and theater and all arts, you know, and but free
Speaker 1: and for everyone in the community. And it became, you know,
Speaker 1: a real connecting point in a community in South Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: And musicians that I love, like one of my favorite
Speaker 1: drummers ever is Billy Higgins and Billy Higgins did it
Speaker 1: with him, and so that's a big part of his
Speaker 1: book and he writes so profoundly about it. And I
Speaker 1: ever just being down in kind of a raw and
Speaker 1: vulnerable state down in me Psico alone, and I read
Speaker 1: that book and I remember, just like the last page
Speaker 1: like put him down. I was in tears and sorry,
Speaker 1: it's emotional time. It was an emotional time. But I
Speaker 1: was so in touch at that moment with how important
Speaker 1: that mission was and I could resolve. I set it down.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going home starting a music school,
Speaker 1: period done, no matter what it takes. I'll pay whatever
Speaker 1: it costs. I'm hiring the people, I'm getting a building,
Speaker 1: I'm building it out and starting to school. And I
Speaker 1: just went and did it, and just you know, new
Speaker 1: people to help. I had a friend, my friend Tree,
Speaker 1: who'd been a music teacher for many years, hired him
Speaker 1: to be the dean. You know, just got it. My
Speaker 1: friend Pete. We just got together, found a contractor got
Speaker 1: a place built it, did it. So I was just
Speaker 1: like with that resolve and I was like, I'm doing
Speaker 1: it no matter what, like top priority. And I and
Speaker 1: one of the lessons I've learned from having done it
Speaker 1: for so long. Is like when you have a good
Speaker 1: idea like that, go with it, you know, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the momentum of just what it is has carried it
Speaker 1: throughout the years. It's such a cool thing. I still
Speaker 1: can't believe he did it. It's amazing, you know, every
Speaker 1: many of us have cool ideas for someone to actually
Speaker 1: do it and do it for twenty years and have
Speaker 1: it build into the thing that it's become. It's so
Speaker 1: cool and congratulations great having that vision that come to life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I really hope for this one
Speaker 1: and watch to work out well too. Oo. Man, I
Speaker 1: love you. I love you too, And you know, Rick,
Speaker 1: just to end it, so grateful that we work together
Speaker 1: again on this. You know, we didn't work together for
Speaker 1: a while, and you know, the five of us together
Speaker 1: all bring something that is so different and what you
Speaker 1: bring is so crucial to us and has been for
Speaker 1: every record we've ever made together. And I'm just really
Speaker 1: grateful for that. Thank you for being there, Thank you
Speaker 1: for including me. I'd love to be part of the process.
Speaker 1: Super fun, awesome man, all right, touching. Thanks to Flee
Speaker 1: for sharing so much about the inner workings of the
Speaker 1: Red Hot Chili Peppers, and what it was like to
Speaker 1: reunite with John Freshanta. You can hear their new album,
Speaker 1: Unlimited Love, along with our favorite Chili Peppers songs on
Speaker 1: a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You can
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is
Speaker 1: produced help from me A Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holliday,
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineer and help from
Speaker 1: Nick Chafee and Shangarlas Studios. Our executive producer is Mailo Valve.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and if
Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share, wait and
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast At a theme musics by
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.