WEBVTT - Flea 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:32.636 Pushkin, Pushkin. Hey everyone, this is number three in our 0:00:32.716 --> 0:00:36.276 four episode run with the Red Hot Chili Peppers celebrating 0:00:36.316 --> 0:00:39.716 their new album Unlimited Love. Today you'll hear a very 0:00:39.756 --> 0:00:44.156 special conversation between Rick Rubin and Flee. Flee is one 0:00:44.156 --> 0:00:46.716 of the most iconic bass players of all time, and, 0:00:46.756 --> 0:00:49.796 along with singer Anthony ketis one of the all time 0:00:49.916 --> 0:00:53.956 great musical ambassadors of Los Angeles. He talks with Rick 0:00:53.996 --> 0:00:56.476 on today's episode about how he rocks started his way 0:00:56.476 --> 0:01:00.316 into usc to study music. Theory, remembers tearfully telling John 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:03.516 Fruschante how much he missed playing together, and tells Rick 0:01:03.596 --> 0:01:06.476 why he reverts back to his fifteen year old self anytime. 0:01:06.476 --> 0:01:12.516 He argues with ketis this is broken record? Well, I 0:01:12.516 --> 0:01:15.076 don't know. It's for the digital age. I'm just a mission. 0:01:16.076 --> 0:01:20.356 Here's Rick Rubin with Flee. Yo, Hi, Rack, How are 0:01:20.356 --> 0:01:23.356 you feeling good? Thank you? How are you? I'm very 0:01:23.356 --> 0:01:26.116 well pleasure seeing you man, Thank you. Do you want 0:01:26.116 --> 0:01:27.516 to just talk about what it was like going to 0:01:27.516 --> 0:01:30.356 the studio making the new album? Yeah, I don't know 0:01:30.356 --> 0:01:32.676 what to say. I mean, you know, we just did 0:01:32.716 --> 0:01:36.036 the work, you know, like, I don't know how it 0:01:36.076 --> 0:01:38.676 is for people who have never made records. But you 0:01:38.756 --> 0:01:43.476 just do the work man, you know, like all the homework, 0:01:44.076 --> 0:01:47.636 the countless hours that we spend a loan sitting in 0:01:47.636 --> 0:01:52.436 a room. You know, how can I contribute and following 0:01:53.276 --> 0:01:56.156 these feelings of something that makes us feel a certain way, 0:01:56.236 --> 0:01:59.996 like like I know for myself and for John and 0:02:00.116 --> 0:02:03.076 for Anthony, I mean, we all have a different way 0:02:03.116 --> 0:02:05.356 that we do it. But like they're just sit in 0:02:05.356 --> 0:02:08.036 a room at the piano and start hitting a thing 0:02:08.676 --> 0:02:11.116 until one point I'm hitting it in a way that 0:02:11.276 --> 0:02:15.436 hypnotizes me, that makes me feel like ah, like hit 0:02:15.556 --> 0:02:18.396 you know, and then it's beautiful. And the same thing 0:02:18.396 --> 0:02:21.436 with the bass, like this playing and like I played 0:02:21.516 --> 0:02:26.356 ten zillion basslines in my life, and when I start playing, 0:02:26.356 --> 0:02:28.076 when it's like, oh this is different than when I've 0:02:28.076 --> 0:02:31.836 played before. And I'm jeeling right now? Is Jewel coming 0:02:31.876 --> 0:02:34.796 down to my fucking belly? Because I'm gone and it 0:02:35.436 --> 0:02:37.796 takes me away, like it opens me up to a 0:02:37.836 --> 0:02:42.556 place that is beyond thought, beyond action. It's just me 0:02:42.676 --> 0:02:46.196 in touch with God, you know, me being completely present 0:02:46.276 --> 0:02:50.036 and complete as a human being in that moment. That's good. 0:02:50.356 --> 0:02:52.116 And it might not be the right thing for the band, 0:02:52.116 --> 0:02:54.276 and it's still like thing like coming in being kind 0:02:54.316 --> 0:02:55.796 of like, well, I got this, you guys, what do 0:02:55.836 --> 0:02:58.876 you think you know? And sometimes it's like, ah, you know, 0:02:59.076 --> 0:03:00.756 I don't know. I don't know if I feel that, 0:03:00.876 --> 0:03:01.676 you know what I mean? I was like, Oh, I 0:03:01.756 --> 0:03:04.236 like still crest falling because I still care so much, 0:03:04.276 --> 0:03:09.476 and ultimately for us as a band, that's what really matters, 0:03:09.516 --> 0:03:13.796 as we still really care. And if this thing that 0:03:13.916 --> 0:03:17.396 we do was it all just as a means to 0:03:17.516 --> 0:03:20.676 an end to have to put out a record so 0:03:20.756 --> 0:03:22.476 we can do a big tour so we can have 0:03:22.516 --> 0:03:24.396 a hit, or so we can get this, or that 0:03:24.796 --> 0:03:26.996 we'd be fucked. There's no way we would be doing 0:03:27.036 --> 0:03:32.476 anything important or relevant in any way. But because we 0:03:32.676 --> 0:03:36.236 care deeply not only about the quality of the thing, 0:03:36.956 --> 0:03:39.716 but about the quality and the meaning and purpose in 0:03:39.756 --> 0:03:42.956 the process of making it, and like the thing of 0:03:42.996 --> 0:03:45.756 like this is a ritual that is a sacred ritual. 0:03:45.796 --> 0:03:47.636 When we go into work with you, when we go 0:03:47.636 --> 0:03:50.636 into work by ourselves alone at home, sitting alone, going 0:03:50.676 --> 0:03:53.236 into work with the collective every day, like this is 0:03:53.236 --> 0:03:56.876 a sacred ritual. We do this, we open ourselves up 0:03:57.196 --> 0:03:59.796 to channel something bigger than us, and to shape it 0:03:59.836 --> 0:04:04.436 into these songs and that process. You know, the fact 0:04:04.476 --> 0:04:08.676 that we all care deeply about that is why the 0:04:08.796 --> 0:04:12.116 music has thought and care and loving it. And for me, 0:04:12.396 --> 0:04:17.316 it's still deeply relevant to the universe, absolutely, And I 0:04:17.356 --> 0:04:19.636 think that's the reason that people resonate with it and 0:04:19.756 --> 0:04:22.636 have for so long, is that it's it's much bigger 0:04:22.636 --> 0:04:25.756 than any of the people involved. That we're tapping into 0:04:25.796 --> 0:04:32.396 something serious. Yeah, man, tell me about learning to play piano. Well, 0:04:32.836 --> 0:04:35.836 it's a slow process that you know. I'm still a 0:04:35.916 --> 0:04:39.156 humble student of it, you know, I guess like I 0:04:39.196 --> 0:04:40.956 still feel the same way at the base, I'm still 0:04:40.956 --> 0:04:44.476 a humble student of it. It was guess, gosh, Now 0:04:44.516 --> 0:04:47.676 it's like when did John quit the band in twenty 0:04:47.916 --> 0:04:51.476 ten something like that. Yeah, I was around then. And 0:04:51.516 --> 0:04:55.636 then about a year after that, I got the idea 0:04:55.716 --> 0:05:00.116 to go to college to university and study music. Ran 0:05:00.196 --> 0:05:02.716 I went. I kind of rock started my way into 0:05:02.916 --> 0:05:05.916 USC because I didn't have the high school grades from 0:05:06.116 --> 0:05:08.956 thirty years before to get in and got into the 0:05:09.156 --> 0:05:13.596 music program. Nan went and took theory and composition and 0:05:13.716 --> 0:05:17.716 jazz trumpet and just to do the theory homework, I 0:05:17.756 --> 0:05:20.076 had to sit at the piano because we were analyzing 0:05:20.116 --> 0:05:22.956 Bach chorls and stuff, and you had to read it 0:05:22.996 --> 0:05:25.876 and then write this sort of the numerical equation of 0:05:25.876 --> 0:05:27.996 how the music worked, like how the chords related to 0:05:28.036 --> 0:05:31.396 one another. And they were so great for me, just 0:05:31.436 --> 0:05:34.276 because I had never thought of music in any way 0:05:34.356 --> 0:05:38.676 other than you know, emotionally and intuitively. Was my complete 0:05:38.676 --> 0:05:40.916 relation to music. And I had, you know, the most 0:05:40.996 --> 0:05:44.356 minimal academic schooling, Like I knew what ancative was and 0:05:44.436 --> 0:05:46.196 knew what a scale was, but it was all feel 0:05:46.276 --> 0:05:50.116 for me. So to start thinking about it academically was 0:05:50.196 --> 0:05:52.516 such a beautiful way to engage my mind and made 0:05:52.556 --> 0:05:54.916 me start loving math for the first time and really 0:05:54.916 --> 0:05:58.356 seeing the magic and numbers. But but anyways, in order 0:05:58.396 --> 0:06:00.516 to do the to do that work, I needed to 0:06:00.516 --> 0:06:03.676 sit at the piano, and also in analyzing the Bach, 0:06:03.756 --> 0:06:06.876 which was kind of the crux of the academic studies, 0:06:06.916 --> 0:06:08.436 it made me fall in love with Box. So I 0:06:08.476 --> 0:06:12.996 started buying the most remedial Bach piano pieces and trying 0:06:13.036 --> 0:06:15.436 to learn them, and I think I like to hand 0:06:15.476 --> 0:06:18.516 in book and started just really loving the feeling of 0:06:18.556 --> 0:06:21.956 the piano under my fingers. And started playing it. And 0:06:22.516 --> 0:06:25.116 you know, whenever I have time, I play it. Oftentimes 0:06:25.236 --> 0:06:28.356 my work is too consuming for me to have the 0:06:28.356 --> 0:06:32.676 practice time. But it's just this ongoing thing. And it's 0:06:32.716 --> 0:06:34.796 funny how you ever, know, like when you're learning something 0:06:34.836 --> 0:06:37.796 new and you do it for a while and you start, 0:06:38.276 --> 0:06:39.956 you know, you're learning the technique to do it or 0:06:39.996 --> 0:06:42.596 figuring out how it works, and then you don't do 0:06:42.636 --> 0:06:44.876 it for a while, and then come back and somehow 0:06:44.876 --> 0:06:48.036 you're better, Like your brain has had like done these 0:06:48.076 --> 0:06:51.796 this work without you. Yes, Yeah, which is a really 0:06:51.836 --> 0:06:54.436 amazing thing about how the brain works like that, Like 0:06:55.076 --> 0:06:58.196 there's the conscious work that it does that you're aware of, 0:06:58.916 --> 0:07:01.196 and then there's all this subconscious work which is and 0:07:01.276 --> 0:07:03.396 that's like amazing to me. And I'm kind of like 0:07:03.956 --> 0:07:06.836 discovering that as I get older, that there's all this 0:07:06.916 --> 0:07:09.396 work going on that I don't know about, and it's 0:07:09.436 --> 0:07:13.236 such an amazing thing to witness to see. Would you 0:07:13.276 --> 0:07:18.236 say learning piano and music theory has impacted your bass 0:07:18.236 --> 0:07:22.316 playing enormously in what way? For one thing, having a 0:07:22.436 --> 0:07:25.956 richer understanding of how the baseline relates to the chords, 0:07:26.636 --> 0:07:29.356 then you start learning about chords and playing left hand 0:07:29.356 --> 0:07:31.956 and right hand together, so you're always interacting and you're 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:36.196 realizing it's like stuff that I would do intuitively, but 0:07:36.516 --> 0:07:40.396 seeing how Okay, so it's a C chord If you're 0:07:40.396 --> 0:07:42.476 playing a G that's the fifth of the C, so 0:07:42.676 --> 0:07:44.996 you're all of a sudden a C cord is getting 0:07:45.036 --> 0:07:47.476 a different color because of what's in the base, and 0:07:47.636 --> 0:07:50.116 just being aware of how that's working, and just kind 0:07:50.116 --> 0:07:54.236 of having more of an understanding of not just kind 0:07:54.236 --> 0:07:56.436 of getting lucky if when I'm hitting what note against 0:07:56.476 --> 0:07:58.876 a chord even though luck isn't the right word because 0:07:58.876 --> 0:08:01.556 I'm still reaching for the color, but kind of going 0:08:01.596 --> 0:08:04.156 into it with a deeper understanding of what the chord 0:08:04.276 --> 0:08:07.076 is and what notes, you know, just kind of having 0:08:07.956 --> 0:08:13.116 an arsenal colors to paint with and just really helping 0:08:13.156 --> 0:08:16.876 me like that. So yeah, it really helps, And you know, 0:08:16.916 --> 0:08:21.956 obviously it's like oftentimes in my contribution to the Chili 0:08:21.996 --> 0:08:24.236 Peppers as a bass player, a lot of songs will 0:08:24.276 --> 0:08:27.556 start with a bassline or with a series of bass 0:08:27.636 --> 0:08:31.276 lines that go together to form different sections. And when 0:08:31.276 --> 0:08:34.796 I'm thinking of chords and what chords the basslines might 0:08:34.836 --> 0:08:38.156 imply while I'm doing it, it just helps me to 0:08:38.436 --> 0:08:42.356 create better baselines. Are there any songs on the new 0:08:42.436 --> 0:08:46.356 album that started with you at the piano? Yeah, bunch, 0:08:46.956 --> 0:08:50.276 Well not the one for sure. That was, you know, 0:08:50.436 --> 0:08:54.396 very chorded out on the piano, started with piano chords. 0:08:55.516 --> 0:08:57.956 First time you played that on piano for the rest 0:08:57.956 --> 0:09:00.876 of the band. What was that like? Well, I always 0:09:00.916 --> 0:09:04.996 get nervous when I bring a song in, especially on 0:09:05.036 --> 0:09:08.956 the piano, because you know, I'm not that adept at 0:09:08.956 --> 0:09:12.396 the piano. But I really felt good about it. I 0:09:12.436 --> 0:09:14.236 thought like, oh, this is I remember it like coming 0:09:14.316 --> 0:09:16.396 up with it, thinking like this is good for the band, 0:09:16.436 --> 0:09:19.556 like this is a beautiful thing. And now they were. 0:09:19.636 --> 0:09:22.396 They were very amendable to it from the beginning. It 0:09:22.516 --> 0:09:26.276 kind of changed over time, and I think what became 0:09:26.316 --> 0:09:29.116 the chorus was initially a bridge. I in my head, 0:09:29.116 --> 0:09:30.836 it was a bridge the way I had originally thought 0:09:30.876 --> 0:09:33.796 of it, but Anthony really liked singing a chorus part 0:09:33.916 --> 0:09:36.716 over it, and once we decided that was a chorus 0:09:36.756 --> 0:09:38.316 and not a bridge, then it kind of needed to 0:09:38.396 --> 0:09:41.196 change a little bit, and John had an idea to 0:09:41.276 --> 0:09:42.916 change the chords at the end of it. When it 0:09:42.956 --> 0:09:45.996 goes blues. Guys, I fall into da da da da, 0:09:46.036 --> 0:09:48.396 and it kind of has this descending chord pattern. John 0:09:48.396 --> 0:09:51.636 added that in there, and that really helped it a lot. 0:09:52.236 --> 0:09:54.316 At the end, you notice I played this little um 0:09:54.876 --> 0:09:57.756 bass melody, but edu da da da da, but edd 0:09:57.876 --> 0:10:01.156 d da dah. And originally for me, that was the 0:10:01.236 --> 0:10:04.356 vocal melody that I had in the verses, and in 0:10:04.356 --> 0:10:07.076 my head that was always it. But I didn't want to, 0:10:07.116 --> 0:10:08.956 you know, say to Anthony O, here's the vocal melody. 0:10:09.276 --> 0:10:10.556 I knew that he would want to come up with 0:10:10.596 --> 0:10:12.756 something and let him do it. But then when we 0:10:12.916 --> 0:10:15.196 were tracking it and I did the bass later, which 0:10:15.276 --> 0:10:17.596 is rare because normally I record the bass as one 0:10:17.596 --> 0:10:19.476 of the first things that we record with the basics, 0:10:20.196 --> 0:10:21.756 I just stuck it in there, snuck it in there 0:10:21.756 --> 0:10:23.036 at the end because I didn't want to lose it 0:10:23.076 --> 0:10:25.636 because I always liked that melody. But I guess it 0:10:25.716 --> 0:10:27.796 is kind of more of an instrumental melody. You know. 0:10:27.996 --> 0:10:29.876 I'm so happy it made it into the song because 0:10:29.876 --> 0:10:31.676 I love that moment in the song. I feel like 0:10:31.716 --> 0:10:35.116 it's really beautiful part of the whole thing. Yeah, it's 0:10:35.116 --> 0:10:37.356 a nice little out show, but yeah, no, it was 0:10:37.436 --> 0:10:41.636 good and you know, so oftentimes, like something the way 0:10:41.676 --> 0:10:47.156 I imagine something being is by myself when I'm coming 0:10:47.236 --> 0:10:49.836 up with it, compared to what it becomes once everyone 0:10:49.836 --> 0:10:53.236 starts putting your two cents in, is something much different 0:10:53.236 --> 0:10:56.636 than what I anticipated, And that's that's awesome. It's a 0:10:56.716 --> 0:11:01.676 trip in our band in the creative process, because we're 0:11:01.716 --> 0:11:04.396 all so different and have a different view of music, 0:11:04.556 --> 0:11:06.996 you know, you know, which is all intertwined with different 0:11:06.996 --> 0:11:09.916 worldviews and different views of ourself and different views of 0:11:09.916 --> 0:11:12.876 even what the band is, you know, and with John 0:11:12.996 --> 0:11:15.956 coming back to the band, who's you know, obviously a 0:11:16.156 --> 0:11:19.036 very powerful creative entity and an individual entity on his 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:22.836 own knows who he is, you know, you know, in 0:11:22.916 --> 0:11:24.756 ways it can be difficult for all of us because 0:11:24.756 --> 0:11:26.956 we're all so different, and so we'll butt heads or 0:11:26.996 --> 0:11:31.876 have different opinions about stuff, but it's crucial to That's why, 0:11:32.316 --> 0:11:35.076 you know, what we're doing is so powerful, or for 0:11:35.156 --> 0:11:38.556 me it's powerful, is because we're all bringing something completely 0:11:38.556 --> 0:11:42.876 different and each thing is of a profound significance to 0:11:42.916 --> 0:11:46.436 the whole as opposed to someone you know, repeating what 0:11:46.516 --> 0:11:50.476 another guy thinks. So it's harder, but that's how it is. Good. 0:11:50.956 --> 0:11:53.716 When you first heard Anthony's melody for it, how did 0:11:53.756 --> 0:11:57.996 you feel about it? Great? I felt great, And because 0:11:57.996 --> 0:11:59.276 I was kind of waiting in my head, I was like, 0:11:59.316 --> 0:12:01.636 I under show him this vocal melody. But he came 0:12:01.676 --> 0:12:03.676 in I think, pretty quickly with it. Like I came 0:12:03.676 --> 0:12:05.276 in on the piano, and it was like a matter 0:12:05.316 --> 0:12:07.996 of days before he came in. It was like I 0:12:07.996 --> 0:12:10.076 want to sing over that thing, over that piano thing, 0:12:10.676 --> 0:12:13.436 and it was great for the beginning. And I'm always 0:12:13.436 --> 0:12:16.996 just so happy if I come something because oftentimes, you know, 0:12:17.076 --> 0:12:19.396 both for John and I, we come up with things 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:24.516 instrumentally and that we really like. But you know, if 0:12:24.556 --> 0:12:27.116 Anthony doesn't feel something to sing on it, it's never 0:12:27.156 --> 0:12:29.876 going to become a song. Many many pieces of music 0:12:29.916 --> 0:12:32.796 I have just gone into the ether because you know, 0:12:32.956 --> 0:12:34.956 just he didn't feel it, and fair enough, you know. 0:12:35.396 --> 0:12:37.516 But so I'm always just really happy when he comes, 0:12:37.996 --> 0:12:39.956 you know, and does something. And when he does and 0:12:39.956 --> 0:12:42.556 he does something that I love, great, you know. And 0:12:42.636 --> 0:12:45.796 sometimes you'll do something to me like I was like, oh, 0:12:45.836 --> 0:12:49.236 I really had imagine something else. But just because I 0:12:49.236 --> 0:12:52.196 imagined it doesn't mean that it's better, you know, And 0:12:52.236 --> 0:12:54.476 that's taken time for me to learn too. Like there's 0:12:54.476 --> 0:12:57.636 been many songs where like from my first gut reaction is, oh, no, 0:12:57.716 --> 0:13:00.916 it should be this other way. But it's something that's 0:13:00.956 --> 0:13:04.236 really beautiful that I just don't, you know, from my 0:13:04.556 --> 0:13:08.276 limited view. Let's talk more about this song. It's just 0:13:08.396 --> 0:13:10.796 interesting you you bring it in. You played on the piano. 0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:14.236 Did the ethereal guitar part happen next, or did the 0:13:14.436 --> 0:13:18.436 vocal melody come next? I think John started doing the 0:13:18.436 --> 0:13:22.356 ethereal guitar part right away, and that's something that's amazing 0:13:22.396 --> 0:13:25.396 about John. Like I came in with the chords, and 0:13:25.716 --> 0:13:29.596 pretty much, except for rare circumstances, he does the right 0:13:29.636 --> 0:13:33.636 thing right away. And even if I imagine something completely different, 0:13:33.716 --> 0:13:36.076 what he does is so beautiful and great and in 0:13:36.156 --> 0:13:38.876 touch with what I'm doing. Yeah, that it's just the 0:13:38.956 --> 0:13:42.996 right thing, And I think that happens if vice versa too. 0:13:43.596 --> 0:13:45.316 Like I think that's one of the things that we 0:13:45.396 --> 0:13:47.716 really love about playing with each other is we don't 0:13:47.716 --> 0:13:49.916 have to talk about it much. Once in a while 0:13:50.396 --> 0:13:52.436 it'd be like, oh, you know, I'm trying to accomplish 0:13:52.436 --> 0:13:54.236 this thing in this little part, so could you try 0:13:54.316 --> 0:13:56.996 doing this or that, but we do the right thing 0:13:57.036 --> 0:13:58.916 for the other guy's thing, and it's not a matter 0:13:58.996 --> 0:14:03.076 of like virtuoso musicianship or being a great musician or something. 0:14:03.116 --> 0:14:05.316 It's just like, I don't know if it's just similar 0:14:05.356 --> 0:14:09.036 reference points or either where or like sympathetic nervous systems 0:14:09.236 --> 0:14:13.276 or some sort of telepathic subconscious understanding that we have 0:14:13.356 --> 0:14:15.836 with one another, but we just do the right thing 0:14:16.396 --> 0:14:19.436 to compliment with the other guys playing. And he just 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:21.716 started doing it right away, and it could have been 0:14:21.716 --> 0:14:25.156 something completely different, like like I actually made a demo 0:14:25.236 --> 0:14:26.956 for this song because it was like a couple of 0:14:26.956 --> 0:14:29.116 months we took off when the pandemic first happened and 0:14:29.156 --> 0:14:30.876 we were kind of like just stopped rehearsing because we're 0:14:30.836 --> 0:14:33.116 ever was trying to figure it out, you know, and 0:14:33.156 --> 0:14:36.156 I was making little demos in my garage and I 0:14:36.196 --> 0:14:38.636 had like a little beatbox and a you know, all 0:14:38.676 --> 0:14:41.596 these different things and which gave me an idea of 0:14:41.596 --> 0:14:43.876 what it would be. But it was completely different when 0:14:43.916 --> 0:14:46.756 he started playing and it became this real beautiful and 0:14:46.836 --> 0:14:51.556 an Anthony writes these lyrics that are you know, this 0:14:51.756 --> 0:14:55.316 really melancholy sort of yearning to you can say like 0:14:55.356 --> 0:14:57.036 I'm not the one you know that you're looking for, 0:14:57.556 --> 0:14:59.796 But underneath it, I feel this deep yearning like when 0:14:59.876 --> 0:15:01.396 is he going to be the fucking one? When is 0:15:01.436 --> 0:15:03.236 someone going to be the one? When can I find 0:15:03.276 --> 0:15:06.836 this togetherness with another human being? You know, which I 0:15:06.876 --> 0:15:09.916 feel is kind of a lyrical theme through about this record, 0:15:10.156 --> 0:15:12.636 you know, this like deep yearning to connect. I even 0:15:12.676 --> 0:15:15.276 had a stupid idea for the record to be to 0:15:15.396 --> 0:15:18.156 be called The Yearning, which was like, you know, it 0:15:18.236 --> 0:15:22.996 sounds like a fucking Disney Hallmark, you know special So 0:15:23.196 --> 0:15:26.276 you said he had you have like a almost a 0:15:26.316 --> 0:15:29.476 psychic connection with John when you guys play together. Has 0:15:29.476 --> 0:15:33.076 it been like that from the very beginning? Yes, I 0:15:33.156 --> 0:15:35.996 think that, you know. The only reason it ever wasn't 0:15:36.036 --> 0:15:38.676 like that, which would probably be like, you know, when 0:15:38.676 --> 0:15:40.996 he first joined and we made the first album, Mother's 0:15:40.996 --> 0:15:45.396 Milk is he was still super young, and I think 0:15:45.396 --> 0:15:47.636 the only thing that would get in the way of 0:15:47.676 --> 0:15:50.596 it being that is like kind of like tension or nervousness, 0:15:50.636 --> 0:15:52.796 like oh, what's the right thing to do and not 0:15:52.876 --> 0:15:55.276 trusting yourself yet. And I think it took him a while. 0:15:55.756 --> 0:15:57.236 He was so young, and he came in and we 0:15:57.236 --> 0:15:59.796 were already kind of a popular band, and I think he, 0:16:00.076 --> 0:16:04.036 you know, was just kind of concerned about, you know, 0:16:04.116 --> 0:16:05.716 how do I fit in, what do I do? What's 0:16:05.756 --> 0:16:07.996 the right thing to do? As opposed to just like 0:16:08.076 --> 0:16:10.596 letting go, which is by the time we started working 0:16:10.596 --> 0:16:12.476 with you on a next record, which was Blood Sugar 0:16:12.516 --> 0:16:15.996 Sex Magic, that was completely there, like he had let 0:16:16.036 --> 0:16:18.036 go of like worrying about what was right. It was 0:16:18.036 --> 0:16:22.116 just you know, letting his letting it flow, letting it 0:16:22.356 --> 0:16:27.156 letting God take over. How would you say your relationship 0:16:27.196 --> 0:16:29.956 with Anthony has changed over all the years that you 0:16:29.996 --> 0:16:32.276 know him? You know, Anthony since how old were you 0:16:32.276 --> 0:16:36.396 guys when you met fifteen and now we're you know, 0:16:36.396 --> 0:16:41.476 our next birthdays returned sixty? Wow? Yeah, the majority, the 0:16:41.516 --> 0:16:47.276 majority of your lives have been together. It's so crazy. 0:16:47.476 --> 0:16:52.076 I mean, our relationship has you know, grown and changed 0:16:52.236 --> 0:16:56.876 and been joyous and been tense and fraught with suffering 0:16:56.876 --> 0:17:01.996 and hurt and been accepting and like been through so 0:17:02.036 --> 0:17:05.596 many dynamics throughout the course of it. You know. So 0:17:05.676 --> 0:17:09.076 we meet him with fifteen and we become like inside 0:17:09.236 --> 0:17:12.796 pole every day we're together all day long, you know 0:17:12.796 --> 0:17:15.316 what I mean, Like right after school, we get together, 0:17:15.356 --> 0:17:17.116 where we're gonna get some weed. What are we gonna do? 0:17:17.196 --> 0:17:19.356 What's the hustle today? Where we're gonna go steal something, 0:17:19.356 --> 0:17:21.156 where we're gonna go run around? You know, what the 0:17:21.156 --> 0:17:22.996 fuck are we gonna do. We're gonna do something. We're 0:17:22.996 --> 0:17:26.596 gonna do it. Do it just dumb shit and beautiful shit, 0:17:26.756 --> 0:17:29.396 like really loving the things that we love, the nature 0:17:29.436 --> 0:17:32.476 of the art, the music, the places where we connect, 0:17:32.876 --> 0:17:36.156 you know. And then we start the band when we're twenty, 0:17:36.676 --> 0:17:40.476 and it already seemed like at that age the years 0:17:40.516 --> 0:17:44.796 between fifteen and twenty a are huge. It's like a 0:17:44.876 --> 0:17:47.076 year of sixteen and seventeen and eighteen or like ten 0:17:47.196 --> 0:17:50.596 years now, you know what I mean in terms of, 0:17:50.796 --> 0:17:53.476 you know, because time actually does speed up, which is 0:17:53.596 --> 0:17:58.436 fucking insane, which I'm realizing it actually speeds up, like theoretically. 0:17:58.436 --> 0:18:00.636 I had heard that before, but now it's like I 0:18:00.676 --> 0:18:04.756 feel it so intensely. So it seemed like ages had 0:18:04.796 --> 0:18:06.756 gone by. Like when we started to band, it seemed 0:18:06.796 --> 0:18:09.476 like we had been friends for lifetimes. And then we 0:18:09.516 --> 0:18:13.116 start to band and we're still very much in that 0:18:13.236 --> 0:18:16.196 kind of street kid mentality. You know, everything's a hustle. 0:18:16.236 --> 0:18:18.436 Like I remember, like we started a band, like when 0:18:18.436 --> 0:18:21.116 we first like record companies wanted to sign us and stuff, 0:18:21.156 --> 0:18:24.316 and it's kind of later on and they're like taking 0:18:24.396 --> 0:18:27.796 us out to lunch, and we're still in the mindset 0:18:27.996 --> 0:18:31.476 of like hustling a lunch. So it's like getting like 0:18:31.596 --> 0:18:34.476 you know, different guys to take us out to lunch, Like, yeah, 0:18:34.476 --> 0:18:36.476 we'll get this guy on Tuesday, that guy Wednesday. Like 0:18:36.636 --> 0:18:38.316 we're still thinking, like let's get them to take us 0:18:38.316 --> 0:18:41.276 somewhere expensive. Like it's still this whole fucking thing of 0:18:41.356 --> 0:18:45.196 like not just like like what would be the best 0:18:45.196 --> 0:18:47.236 thing for our music at a record company, but like 0:18:47.236 --> 0:18:49.476 how many lunches can we get? We're still in this 0:18:49.636 --> 0:18:55.076 complete street kid like mentality, you know, like um let alone, 0:18:55.116 --> 0:18:57.836 like thinking the long term of like what's white business 0:18:57.876 --> 0:19:01.596 wise or music wise or anything, which is so funny 0:19:01.636 --> 0:19:04.356 to look back at. But in terms of our relationship, 0:19:05.076 --> 0:19:09.916 you know, creatively, it really hasn't changed, like the essence 0:19:09.956 --> 0:19:12.236 of what it is and what it's informed by, which 0:19:12.316 --> 0:19:16.196 is so much still and I think the longevity of 0:19:16.236 --> 0:19:21.156 it is so formed by those years as kids like 0:19:21.356 --> 0:19:25.036 kind of like growing up in our own weird misguided 0:19:25.076 --> 0:19:29.156 way without real mature guidance or like anyone holding our 0:19:29.196 --> 0:19:30.876 hands into like this is how you become a man, 0:19:30.956 --> 0:19:32.516 This is how you become a grown up. These are 0:19:32.556 --> 0:19:36.596 like the tenants of morality, and you know, like we 0:19:36.676 --> 0:19:39.396 just didn't, you know, And I don't think I even 0:19:39.436 --> 0:19:42.316 started growing up until I got sick in my early thirties, 0:19:42.356 --> 0:19:45.196 you know, to be honest, But it's still rooted in that, 0:19:45.396 --> 0:19:47.476 like when you're with someone and you're going through these 0:19:47.476 --> 0:19:50.796 big changes and even though you're confused and bewildered and 0:19:50.796 --> 0:19:53.316 also like kind of like bumbling around like just trying 0:19:53.356 --> 0:19:55.236 to avoid pain and go to pleasure, you know what 0:19:55.276 --> 0:20:00.476 I mean, it's just like survival together. And something about 0:20:00.556 --> 0:20:04.636 that is really deep, you know. And I was kind 0:20:04.636 --> 0:20:09.356 of thinking this morning, like about how like as the 0:20:09.436 --> 0:20:11.116 years have gone by, there's been so many times and 0:20:11.236 --> 0:20:13.116 it was difficult between us, and I think it also 0:20:13.156 --> 0:20:16.556 works against us that child stuff, because we could get 0:20:16.596 --> 0:20:19.916 into like these scraps or be offended or hurt by 0:20:19.916 --> 0:20:22.916 one another in a way that's so fucking childish. It's 0:20:22.916 --> 0:20:27.356 like we revert back to being the like completely emotionally 0:20:27.556 --> 0:20:32.116 fragile and immature fifteen year olds in our fifties, you 0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:33.516 know what I mean, Like, we go back to that 0:20:33.596 --> 0:20:37.156 between us and it can be really difficult. And I 0:20:37.196 --> 0:20:39.596 think recently like we had something like that where we 0:20:39.596 --> 0:20:41.836 were doing that and it was like so painful, you know, 0:20:41.836 --> 0:20:43.356 and I'll go back and be like, fuck, I'm done, 0:20:43.356 --> 0:20:44.676 I'm out of here, and I can't deal with this 0:20:44.796 --> 0:20:47.156 fucking shit anymore. It fucked this guy, and I realize 0:20:47.236 --> 0:20:49.716 I'm acting like a child. But you know, because we're 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:51.756 both acting like we go into this place, you know, 0:20:51.796 --> 0:20:53.556 and we kind of talked about it and we're like, 0:20:53.636 --> 0:20:56.316 you know, we do that, and we both acknowledged it, 0:20:56.316 --> 0:20:57.636 and it's kind of like, you know, we need to 0:20:58.716 --> 0:20:59.996 you know, we don't need to do that. I'll do 0:20:59.996 --> 0:21:01.636 it with other people, you know what I mean. Other 0:21:01.676 --> 0:21:03.476 people piss me off and do things that I that 0:21:03.556 --> 0:21:07.476 I find, you know what I mean, offenses, But with him, 0:21:07.596 --> 0:21:10.636 we go there. You know, it's like this constant argument, 0:21:10.716 --> 0:21:13.156