1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk, and this is next question. 2 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome former Secretary of State Hillary 3 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: Rodham Clinton and Katie Kirk, Award winning journalist and co 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: founder of Katie Kirk Media. 5 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 3: Hi. 6 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: Everyone. Wow, what a crowd. It is so great, such 7 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: an honor to be kicking off your book tour. Hillary, 8 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: may I call you Hillary? Yes, Katie yes, And so 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: great to be in my hometown of Washington, DC. So gosh, 10 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: I have nineteen pages worth of questions. Don't worry, the 11 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: print is very big, Hillary, and I'll put my glasses 12 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: on in fact. So let's get to it right away. 13 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: There's so much news to talk about. Obviously we're going 14 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: to talk about your wonderful book, Something Lost, Something Gained. 15 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: But first I want to address sort of recent news events. 16 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: The assassination attempt on former President Trump yesterday at his 17 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: golf course in West Palm Beach. It is the second 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: attempt on his life in two months. When you heard 19 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: the news, what was your reaction. 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 3: Well, it was horror. I mean, this is such a 21 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 3: terrible thing to happen twice in our country in a 22 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 3: relatively short period of time, and it's frightening to see 23 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: violence being threatened and used in a political campaign. 24 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: This is what Donald Trump tweeted this afternoon. Quote. The 25 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: rhetoric lies, as exemplified by the far statements made by 26 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: Comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC 27 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: debate and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to 28 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: inflict damage on Joe's than Kamala's political opponent, me has 29 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: taken politics in our country to a whole new level 30 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: of hatred, abuse, and distrust because of this communist left rhetoric. 31 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: The bullets are flying and it will only get worse. 32 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: Exclamation point. Allowing millions of people from places unknown to 33 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: invade and take over our country is an unpardonable sin 34 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: end quote. I imagine you have a lot to say 35 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: about that. 36 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it is so regrettable that the former 37 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: president would take what is a genuinely terrible event of 38 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: someone stalking a former president and current candidate and turn 39 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 3: it into as he did with that tweet that you 40 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: just read, a political attack on his opposition and literally 41 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: everybody else who does not support him. And it really 42 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 3: does Katie come down once again to everything everything that 43 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 3: he talks about is about himself, and he doesn't in 44 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: any way try to reach out to people. He's not 45 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: interested in representing all of America and all of Americans, 46 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 3: and this is just another really regrettable incident of that. 47 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: And I do worry about political violence. I worry about threats. 48 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: I worry about what's being said online about many many people, 49 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 3: not just the former president. And he should be doing 50 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 3: if if you were really a leader, he should be 51 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 3: doing what he can to calm the waters, not try 52 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: to just continue to throw red meat out there to 53 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 3: get people riled up. And it is troubling to me, 54 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: which is something that I think everybody should. 55 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: Worry about modeling behavior instead of inciting more violent speech. 56 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: While we're talking about that in a sense deleted response 57 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: to a user who asked, why do they want to 58 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: kill Donald Trump, Elon Musk said, and no one is 59 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: even trying to assassinate Biden or Kamala. 60 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 3: You know, let's just all just promise ourselves that we 61 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: can have significant political differences about who we want to 62 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: be our next president, about the policies that we think 63 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 3: will help our country and the world, and condemn that 64 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: kind of rhetoric. It has absolutely no place in American life. 65 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: It's interesting because in the prologue of your books, something Lost, 66 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: Something Gained is out tomorrow. By the way, everyone you 67 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: write quote when you start viewing the other party as traders, criminals, 68 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: or otherwise illegitimate. For example, if you spread the lie 69 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 1: for years that our first black president wasn't actually born 70 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: in the United States. Where if you lead locker up 71 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: chants at your campaign rallies, politics becomes a blood sport. 72 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: Soon enough, actual blood gets spilled. I'm curious who do 73 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: you think. I mean, you're going to say this is 74 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: kind of a no brainer question, but who do you 75 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: think is responsible for raising the temperature of our political rhetoric? 76 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: Is it solely one side? Because I noticed Hillary when 77 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: I was reading the book, you mentioned both far right 78 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: and far left echo chambers. 79 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: You know, I do think that we've always had strong 80 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: feelings in our politics, going back literally to the very 81 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: beginning of this country. There's nothing new about that. But 82 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 3: I do think that social media has put it on steroids, 83 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: and what we see now are opinions being expressed, hate 84 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: being conveyed that would have just stayed within a much 85 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: smaller geographic or community setting, which is now literally around 86 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: the world. So I believe that this is not just 87 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 3: about political leaders, although they do, and I believe this strongly, 88 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 3: have a responsibility to try to model responsible leadership. But 89 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 3: it is about all kinds of people who have found 90 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 3: homes on the Internet to convey a lot of hatred, 91 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: a lot of vitriolic rhetoric, attacking all sorts of people, 92 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: from the right, from the left, impugning people's beliefs, denying reality, 93 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: putting forth conspiracy theories. And so it is difficult in 94 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: the environment in which we find ourselves to really have 95 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 3: a civil conversation about the differences. And there are real differences. 96 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 3: There are differences between the parties, There are differences between 97 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 3: candidates because saying anything just gets totally viral immediately and 98 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 3: then you know you're off on a tangent. So I 99 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: do think that political leaders, some journalists, activists, you know, 100 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 3: online personality, all of that has contributed to a really 101 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 3: volatile political situation. 102 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: Well, as our friend Kara Swisher calls it, engagement through enragement, 103 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: and those are the things that get attention, the most vitriolic, 104 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: most sort of incendiary comments. I want to ask you 105 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: about the current political situation with Joe Biden stepping down 106 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: from running for president. The book was turned in prior 107 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: to that, and also prior to Donald Trump's first assassination 108 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. I know you recorded an epilogue 109 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: though for your audio book, And let me first ask 110 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: you about President Biden resigning from the campaign. What do 111 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: you think took him so long to make that decision. 112 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: Well, I don't have any inside information, but I think 113 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 3: number one, he did a really good job as president. 114 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: He got a lot done, and and and I do 115 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 3: think he modeled responsible leadership. Uh. He tried very hard 116 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: to you know, demonstrate that he wanted to be president 117 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: for all Americans. He wanted to work with Republicans in 118 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: the Congress. A lot of his major legislation, many of 119 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: the benefits like the Infrastructure Bill or the Inflation Reduction Act, 120 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 3: you know, they're going to go to all Americans, and 121 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 3: they're going to go to places that don't vote for Democrats, 122 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: did not vote for Joe Biden. And and he really 123 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: did have a strong commitment to try to you know, 124 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 3: reach out to people and to to build a much 125 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: you know, commer approach toward bringing people together to solve problems. 126 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 3: So if you've had that kind of record and you've 127 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 3: done a lot as he did, I think that U 128 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 3: those of us who were around him, you know both. 129 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 3: I was around him numerous times. Actually did a you know, 130 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 3: fundraiser with him with my husband right here in Virginia 131 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 3: at Terry mccauliff's house, who I think is here tonight 132 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 3: about like like about a week before that debate. And 133 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 3: you know, not only did he speak, he was in 134 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 3: a photo line for an hour, then he went around 135 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: and talked to everybody who was at the fundraiser. So 136 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 3: when we saw the debate, like every other American, we were, 137 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: you know, surprised, shocked even, And I think again, I'm 138 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 3: thinking that this is how he felt about it. He said, Okay, 139 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 3: I had a terrible debate. Don't know what happened to me, 140 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 3: but I'm gonna go out and I'm going to campaign 141 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: and all the rest of it. But it just couldn't 142 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 3: be recovered. And I think then people close to him, 143 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 3: that our trusted advisors, you know, began explaining to him 144 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 3: that it couldn't be recovered, that he couldn't get back 145 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: to a fifty to fifty close race that you know, 146 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: he would be able to pull out, and he made 147 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 3: the right decision. And then immediately after he made the 148 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 3: decision public, he endorsed Kamala, which was also the right decision. 149 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about that, because I know you 150 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: had a conversation with Kamala Harris that Sunday. What can 151 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: you tell us about that. 152 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: Well, you're right that my book had to get to 153 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: the printer before all of this happened. You must have 154 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 3: been like, damn, gosh, it was it was pretty it 155 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: was pretty agonizing. But I did. If you're an audible 156 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: kind of person, I did record the book, and I 157 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: put an epilogue at the end of the book, or 158 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 3: at the end of the recording. It's not in the book, 159 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 3: but it is in the audio version in which I 160 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 3: talked about how I felt. I mean, first of all, 161 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 3: I thought Joe Biden made a patriotic decision and it 162 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: was commendable, and I was, you know, very grateful to him, 163 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 3: and I thought his endorsement of Kamala was the right thing. 164 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 3: And I you know that afternoon, Bill and I talked 165 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: to the President, we talked to the Vice president, and 166 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 3: I say in the epilogue, you know, I wasn't sure 167 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: how I would feel when another woman would be so 168 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: close to breaking that hardest glass ceiling. And I was 169 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 3: thrilled and so excited. And you know, she has run 170 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 3: a near perfect campaign. I mean absolutely from the very beginning. 171 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: So I was, you know, able to express that in 172 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 3: the audio version that I recorded. But I think the 173 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 3: book itself tries to talk about the stakes that are 174 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: in the election, whether it's Joe Biden at the top 175 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: of the ticket or Kamala Harris, the stakes are so 176 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: high and they remain the same, and so I'm thrilled 177 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 3: that people have been so energized by Kamala because we've 178 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: got to turn everybody out to vote in November. 179 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: I know, during the course of that phone call, she 180 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: said to you, we're going to need your help, and 181 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: you said. 182 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: Whatever you need, whatever you need, and I you know, 183 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: I've talked to her several times. I thought her convention 184 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: speech was perfect. It was such an incredible introduction of 185 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 3: herself to the country. I also talked with her about 186 00:13:51,720 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 3: the debate, which I thought was terrific, And you know, 187 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 3: it is very for me. It's very exciting to see 188 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: someone literally just get thrown into the deep end of 189 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: the pool, like, oh, now you're running for president and 190 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: to see her just kick herself up and you know, 191 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 3: get prepared to do it. And I love her vice 192 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: presidential candidate Tim Walls, who is such a breath of 193 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 3: fresh air. So I you know, I'm doing events. I'm 194 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 3: helping in every way that I can, because literally we 195 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: have fifty days left and there's so much at stake 196 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 3: that I personally am going to do everything that I 197 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 3: can to make sure this election turns out right. 198 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a 199 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: breakdown of the new and fascinating takes on health and 200 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 201 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. You know, 202 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: at the time when there was so much discussion about 203 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: whether President Biden was going to drop out of the race, 204 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: many Democrats were hoping for an open process where a 205 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: number of candidates could have competed for the spot. But you, 206 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: as you said just a minute ago, you were a 207 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: big supporter of Kamala Harris's from the get go. Why 208 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: did you think that was the best path and what 209 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,119 Speaker 1: downside did you see in having a more open process. 210 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: First of all. I thought she'd earned it. She has 211 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: been the vice president. When people were voting in the primaries, 212 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: they voting for the Biden Harris ticket, not the Biden 213 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: question Mark ticket, and I thought that she was best 214 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 3: positioned to step on to the national stage. I talked 215 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 3: to a lot of people during that time, and nobody 216 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 3: could describe to me what this process was supposed to be. 217 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: I mean, I would have been interested. You know. There 218 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 3: were all kinds of wacky ideas, well, let's just have 219 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 3: people go around the country like you know. 220 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: Do town halls. 221 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, in town halls, like the Lincoln Douglas debates, I mean, 222 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: and you have what a month? I mean, none of 223 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: it made any sense. And the sensible people whose names 224 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 3: you know were well known because they were already established 225 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: in politics, and the Congress, governors, et cetera. They were 226 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: all looking at it and going, this doesn't sound like 227 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 3: a good idea to me. And then finally we were 228 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 3: We were running against the most dangerous threat to the 229 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 3: continuation of American democracy and freedom that we can possibly imagine. 230 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 3: And we don't need any more chaos. We need to 231 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 3: make a decision and go forward. And if you go 232 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 3: back and look at the history of you know, contested conventions, 233 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: people running against incumbents, it doesn't turn out all that well. 234 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 3: So I was I was thrilled that, you know, we 235 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 3: were able to make a very you know, sensible, smart 236 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 3: decision and get to the convention, uh, have a great 237 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,239 Speaker 3: convention and come out of it with a lot of 238 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: uh you know, uh steam behind our candidates. 239 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: We'll talk more about politics in a moment, but I 240 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: want to talk about the book, which is quite political 241 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: by the way, political and personal. I know you're a 242 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: huge Joni Mitchell fan. As am I You named Chelsea. 243 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: I remember this from I think I interviewed I think 244 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: it was mentioned you in nineteen ninety three, the first 245 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: interview with the First Lady. It was Hilary America's first Lady, 246 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: and it was so gendered and cheesy. But that was 247 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three. But anyway, I know that you 248 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: named Chelsea after Chelsea Morning. And in your prologue you 249 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: talk about being at rapped attention, as Joni Mitchell sang 250 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: both sides now at the Grammys earlier this year, which 251 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: was quite a moment. It seems to me this book 252 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: is you at a very reflective time in your life. 253 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit more about where you are 254 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: and how you're looking at life from both sides. 255 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: Now, well, how many you know this may be a 256 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 3: little generational, but how many of you know the Joni 257 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: Mitchell song or the Judy Collins cover both sides? Now? 258 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: I hope everybody does. I even the young en should 259 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: know this song. 260 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,239 Speaker 3: Well, if you haven't heard it, please please listen to it. 261 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 3: Do yourselfs a favor. 262 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: You know this is like God, you're making me feel 263 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: so old. 264 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 3: You haven't heard both sides? Now, go to Spotify. But 265 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 3: it's like the soundtrack of my life. I mean really, 266 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: and it would you when I first heard that song 267 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: in my I guess early twenties. You know, I've looked 268 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 3: at life from both sides now, from win or lose, 269 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 3: and still somehow I don't know what life means basically 270 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 3: when you're in your twenties, as I write in the book, yeah, 271 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 3: I mean what does it mean? What does life mean? 272 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 3: What does life hold for me? And then of course 273 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: love the same thing. And I have used that song 274 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 3: and the lyrics from it literally through the course of 275 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 3: my life because at different stages in your life, you know, 276 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: you do have something lost, something gain, which comes from 277 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 3: the song you do see life on both sides. You 278 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: often see love from both sides. And I just felt 279 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: when I was watching Joni Mitchell sitting in what looked 280 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: like a throne at the Grammys earlier this year. 281 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Holding what looked like a specter r. 282 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 3: What looked like a spector with Brandy Carlisle, one of 283 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: my all time new favorites. I was just so touched because, 284 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 3: you know, she survived a brain aneurysm and a lot 285 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 3: of other things in her life, and here she was, 286 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 3: you know, doing what she does so uniquely, which is 287 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: to you know, write songs that capture your feelings not 288 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 3: just at one time in your life, but as you 289 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 3: go through life. So, you know, Katie, when I saw that, 290 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, you know, I am thinking a lot 291 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 3: about where I am in my life now, and you 292 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 3: know I want to you know, reflect on that. So 293 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: it was a real chance for me to take some 294 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 3: time and look at life, look at love, talk about 295 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 3: my family, my friends, my you know, political and public activities. 296 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 3: In a way that was kind of you know, taking 297 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: stock of where I am right now. 298 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: And what was important, you know, and sort of letting 299 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: go of things that mattered so much at one point, 300 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: but you realize now don't matter at all. In fact, absolutely, 301 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: you write in the book, the old words took on 302 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: new meaning. Gone was the twenty something shaking off the 303 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: rose colored glasses of a love affair and the illusions 304 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: of adolescence, and in her place was a matriarch reflecting 305 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: on the hard earned wisdom of a long, eventful life. 306 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: Is part of this coming to terms for you, Hillary, 307 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: the fact, as you write you have more yesterday's than tomorrow's. 308 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 3: I think it is. I mean, I feel great. I'm 309 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 3: going to stay as active and involved as I can 310 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 3: until when I can't. But you do have that sense. 311 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 3: I mean, I have three grandchildren now, and you know, 312 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 3: life for me is really about how I can make 313 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 3: the future safer, more inviting, you know, richer in meaning 314 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 3: an opportunity for my grandchildren, for children. I dedicate the 315 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 3: book to my grandchildren and their generation because I want 316 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 3: them to have the kind of future that they deserve. 317 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 3: And so I do think a lot about tomorrow. Even 318 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 3: though my tomorrows are fewer than my yesterday's. I think about, Okay, 319 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 3: what are we going to do? Every single day? To 320 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 3: try to make the world more peaceful, to try to 321 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 3: end conflicts, to try to end the divisions in our country. 322 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 3: What can we do and what role, you know, can 323 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 3: I play in trying to get that done? 324 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: The book opens the book. If you all clap after 325 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: every answer, I'm going to run out of time. The 326 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: book opens on the afternoon of May thirtieth time, twenty 327 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: twenty four, when you and all of America got the 328 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: news that former President Donald Trump had been convicted of 329 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: thirty four felonies related to election fraud in twenty sixty 330 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. So can you set the scene for us, Hillary, 331 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: Where were you described that moment at all, the intense 332 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: feelings that stirred up in you. 333 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: Well, it was, as you said, late May, and I 334 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 3: was finishing edits on the book, and I was actually 335 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 3: here in Washington at my house here, and I was 336 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 3: working on the edits, and I needed to really concentrate 337 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: because I had a limited period of time to get 338 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 3: these edits done. And then I had events that I 339 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 3: had to go to, and so I took my phone 340 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 3: and you know, I put it on mute and I 341 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 3: turned it upside down. So I had no idea what 342 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: was going on in the world. And I was, you know, 343 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 3: finally finishing the parts that I was trying to edit, 344 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 3: and you know, I picked it up, see what's going 345 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 3: on and turned it on and like my phone is 346 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 3: blowing up. I mean, honest to goodness, people I hadn't 347 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 3: heard from in years are you know, texting and emailing me, 348 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 3: and they are all saying the same thing. Can you 349 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 3: believe what just happened? And of course I quickly read 350 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 3: that he had been convicted of thirty four felony accounts 351 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 3: for interfering in the twenty sixteen election, because that's what 352 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,479 Speaker 3: that trial was about. Hush money was a means to 353 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: prevent information from being made public that might have affected 354 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 3: the vote. So it was election interference. And you know, 355 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 3: when you've watched his life and when you've tried to 356 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 3: explain how he's never been held accountable for the bankruptcies 357 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 3: in business and for so much else that happened before 358 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 3: he ever went into politics, you know, to see that 359 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 3: a jury of his peers in the place he grew 360 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 3: up in New York had found him guilty was you know, 361 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 3: very reassuring to me about our system. And I did 362 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: get you know, a little bit teary eyed because I thought, Wow, 363 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 3: no one is above the law, no matter what the 364 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 3: United States Supreme Court says, no one is above the law. 365 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 4: And and so for me, I mean, you know, look, 366 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 4: I mean, I you know, I was accused of a 367 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 4: million things. 368 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 3: I'll probably come up with more tomorrow. I mean, it 369 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 3: just never ends. And you know, went through, you know, 370 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 3: all the process, and thankfully, guess what, I'd never had 371 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 3: done anything that amounted to any kind of uh, you know, 372 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 3: case that could be made because there was nothing there. 373 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 3: And so for me to see that finally he was 374 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 3: being held account was very reassuring it. And you know, 375 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 3: obviously people started sending me memes and you know. 376 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: A lot of Hillary laughing memes, right, a lot of 377 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: very funny memes. 378 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 379 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: But you know, I know that you confess to feeling 380 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: a soup song of schadenfreud. Yes, but you also felt 381 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: relief as you just said that he would be held accountable. 382 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: But will he be because as you know, Judge Mrchon 383 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: recently delayed his sentencing to after the election. You mentioned 384 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court saying granting him immunity. Does it feel 385 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: like he'll never truly be held accountable at times to you. 386 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a risk. I do think it 387 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 3: depends upon the outcome of the election. Part of the 388 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 3: reason why he is so intense about this election is 389 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 3: because his free him is at stake. And you know, 390 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 3: the the case in New York, Uh, the uh losing 391 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 3: the defamation case, also in New York, his company being 392 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 3: held criminally liable also in New York. 393 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 2: Uh. 394 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 3: There's a pattern here that finally people are focused on 395 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 3: that he's a person who you know, cuts corners all 396 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 3: the time, believes he's above the law, gets to you know, 397 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 3: try to point fingers at everybody else. So honestly, Katie, 398 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 3: it depends upon the election. And it is so shocking 399 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 3: to me. How you know the judge in Florida has 400 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 3: literally turned herself into a pretzel trying to find a 401 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 3: way out for him with his boxes and boxes of 402 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 3: highly classified material stored in mar. 403 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: A Lago in the back the bathroom, I mean, which 404 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: was really gross. 405 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 3: You can't make this up. Yeah, I mean really, I 406 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 3: guess we know what he's reading or not. I don't 407 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 3: know what you're dealing with it. Yeah, look, I mean, 408 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 3: we have always prided ourselves on a couple of things, 409 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 3: the peaceful transfer of power. And as Secretary of State, 410 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: I used to travel around the world basically telling leaders 411 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 3: and you know, the people and countries, look, one election 412 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: is not enough. It's not one and you're done, and 413 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 3: then you get to, you know, try to prevent anybody 414 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 3: else from ever challenging you. It's a peaceful transfer of power. 415 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 3: You have to have, you know, free and fair elections, 416 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: the rule of law, not the rule of men powerful men, 417 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: but the rule of law. And so you know, he 418 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: he has very much, along with his allies, you know, 419 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 3: tried to destroy both of those foundational concepts of our country. 420 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: And it is incredibly dangerous. As don't take it from me. 421 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 3: All of the people who worked for him who are 422 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: now saying, please don't vote for him. I was in 423 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: the situation room with him, I was in the oval 424 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 3: office with him. I briefed him, you cannot trust him 425 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 3: and you cannot let him have that kind of power again. 426 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 3: So the people who serve with him are warning us, 427 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 3: and he himself has said he wants to be, you know, 428 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 3: dictator on day one. 429 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: Why isn't the campaign employing those people more? 430 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 3: Well, they have been used and they've certainly been mentioned, 431 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: and they're all over social media. And just like two 432 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 3: days ago, a big group of former Reagan officials all 433 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 3: came out against him. I mean, Republicans of you know, 434 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 3: principle and prior experience in different Republican administrations are you know, 435 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: literally sounding the alarm. So I think that the more 436 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 3: we can get that out, the better, and I'm hoping 437 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 3: the campaign will do more of that. But as Vice 438 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 3: President Harris travels around the country, she's now being introduced 439 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 3: in a lot of places by Republicans who basically say, 440 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 3: you know, I am so and so, and I'm a 441 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 3: lifelong Republican, but I am voting for you know, Vice 442 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: President Harris. That is giving permission to people who are 443 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 3: torn about Trump but still feel like, well, you know, 444 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 3: I'm a Republican. I don't agree with the Democrats on 445 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 3: issues and all the rest. The only issue is saving 446 00:30:44,720 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 3: our democracy. We can argue about everything else later, you know. 447 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: The New York Times recently described Donald Trump as a 448 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: unique and durable political force, and I'm curious to get 449 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: your insights about why why is he so durable? 450 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I think it helps to have 451 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 3: some sense of history and to know that in many 452 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 3: societies political systems, people who have an ability to connect 453 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 3: with you know, the fears and the insecurities and the 454 00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 3: anger and the hatreds of people in their society are 455 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 3: very effective demagogues, you know, people who stand up and 456 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 3: rail against the other, whoever the other is, whether it's 457 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: you know, immigrants or minority groups, whoever it is. And 458 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 3: I think what he has done, uh is to open 459 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 3: the door to that in our country. You know, I 460 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 3: didn't agree with a lot of the Republican presidents that 461 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 3: I've followed in my lifetime. I found ways to work 462 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 3: with some of them. When I was you know, a 463 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 3: senator from New York on nine to eleven, I found 464 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: a way to work with President George W. Bush about 465 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 3: you know, rebuilding New York and even though I disagreed 466 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: with him about you know, other things. But what we've 467 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 3: got with you know, former President Trump is not a 468 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 3: political difference. It's a it's an almost a psychological character 469 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 3: difference that goes beyond party. He has subdued the Republican 470 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 3: Party to basically give in to him and follow him, 471 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 3: and he does, you know, he does have that quality 472 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 3: that demagogues throughout history have to connect with people on 473 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 3: a really visceral level. So when you say why is 474 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: he so durable, I think because he keeps people agitated, 475 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 3: he keeps people angry, he keeps people upset. He's never 476 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 3: trying to calm the waters. He's never trying to bring 477 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 3: people together. One of my favorite examples of this is, 478 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 3: you know, after the twenty sixteen election, which was you know, 479 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 3: a terrible you know, blow in every way. So you know, 480 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 3: I gave my concession speech and basically said, we've we've 481 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 3: got to get you know, we have one president at 482 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 3: a time, got to get behind him, et cetera. And 483 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: I really hoped that what I saw in the campaign 484 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: would be replaced by a greater sense of responsibility. So 485 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 3: fast forward the inauguration. So, you know, I do believe 486 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 3: in the peaceful transfer of power. And you know, Bill 487 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 3: and I went to the inauguration and we went as 488 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 3: you know, former president, former first lady. We were seated 489 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 3: with former presidents and first ladies. So I was literally 490 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 3: sitting next to George W. 491 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: Bush and didn't he say something really funny too? 492 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 3: Well, I was going to tell you, yes, sorry, because 493 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 3: you know, this was my first recognition that the speech, 494 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 3: which you know, when when you when you have had 495 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 3: a close election, when you've lost the popular vote. I mean, 496 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: it would be a good idea to stand up in 497 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 3: front of the world and say I'm going to be 498 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 3: the president for everybody, you know. I mean, that's what 499 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 3: we kind of hope you'll do. Instead, it was like 500 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 3: carnage in the streets. It was so dark and dystopian 501 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 3: and mean spirited. And you heard this and I thought, wow, 502 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 3: what is going on? So the speech ends and or 503 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 3: w Bush turns to me and goes, that was some 504 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 3: weird shit. So w right, but apparently there are people 505 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: who like it. I don't know what to say, but 506 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 3: I mean that kind of goes to your question, why 507 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 3: is he so durable when he's scaring people and he's 508 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 3: angering people, and he's making hateful comments. Clearly he is 509 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 3: tapping into something in many Americans in their own minds 510 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 3: and hearts, and that's what we have to do a 511 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 3: better job of understanding. 512 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: You reveal in the book that you were attempted to 513 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: run for president again during the disastrous Trump presidency, at 514 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: one point thinking the third time maybe a charm. So 515 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 1: why did you ultimately decide against it, you. 516 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 3: Know, for a number of reasons. I mean one, I 517 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 3: really did think in twenty twenty that he had to 518 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 3: be beaten and Joe Biden could do that. And I 519 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 3: felt that from you know, the beginning of the primary season, 520 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 3: because of the durability that you recognized, and I didn't, 521 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: you know, I didn't want it to be personal me 522 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 3: against him. I wanted to be about his record as 523 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: as president, the four years that he presided over. And 524 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 3: I thought that that would be very difficult if I 525 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 3: were the candidate. And if you look at that race, 526 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 3: and this is for all the political junkies, and I 527 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 3: know there are some of you out there, you will 528 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 3: remember that the electoral college makes it very difficult to 529 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 3: win four Democrats. And when I won by nearly three 530 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: million votes in the popular vote, I lost. Can wait 531 00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 3: a minute, no, I know, I know, but yeah, you know, 532 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 3: I lost by like seventy seven thousand votes, right, So 533 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 3: just think about that. If you know, forty nine fifty 534 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 3: thousand votes had gone differently in three states, the outcome 535 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 3: would have been different. So fast forward twenty twenty to 536 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 3: go to Katie's question. Trump got a lot more votes. 537 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 3: I mean, people looked at what he did and failed 538 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 3: to do during COVID at everything else that happened during 539 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 3: those four years, and said, hey, we like that. Biden 540 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 3: got more votes than anybody's ever gotten for president and 541 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 3: won the popular vote by you know, more than seven 542 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 3: and a half million. But here's what I want you 543 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 3: to understand, why I want you to work really, really 544 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 3: really hard for the next fifty days. He only won 545 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 3: the electoral College by one hundred thousand votes, So just 546 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 3: think about that fifty one thousand votes the other way, 547 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 3: even though he won an overwhelming popular victory. So we 548 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 3: are living in a divided country and we can't understand 549 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 3: and the other side can't understand, you know, why we 550 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 3: feel so strongly about what we want to see in 551 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 3: our government and in our you know, society, and they 552 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 3: are feeling exactly the same way about us. And so 553 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 3: the only thing to do, and it's it's labor intensive, 554 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 3: which is why you're seeing the vice president and Governor 555 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 3: Waltz literally criss crossing the same states over and over again. 556 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 3: I mean, one additional bad thing about the electoral college 557 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 3: is you don't campaign to the whole country. You campaigned 558 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 3: to six, seven, eight states, And that's where the ads run, 559 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 3: that's where the candidates travel, that's where the organizers are deployed. 560 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 3: So you will see over and over again those same states. 561 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 3: And that's why we need all of you who care 562 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 3: about the outcome of this election to do everything you 563 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 3: can to help us win those states because they will 564 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:07,280 Speaker 3: be close. 565 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: It seems insane, but it's never going to change, is it. 566 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 3: The electoral college. You know, I came out against the 567 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: electoral college in two thousand in the Gore Bush race 568 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 3: because you know, it was our first indication that, you know, 569 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court wanted to brig our elections basically, which 570 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 3: they did in the gor v. Bush decision, which is 571 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 3: a terrible decision. We've had a lot of other terrible 572 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 3: decisions since then. But I said, look this, if you 573 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 3: want people to feel invested in their country's democracy, you 574 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 3: have to make them feel their vote counts. And if 575 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 3: you're in an all red state or an all blue 576 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 3: state and nobody campaigns to you during the presidential years, 577 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 3: you know, it's hard for you to feel that you matter. 578 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 3: And so I think it's an anachronism. It was one 579 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 3: of the many comp reises that were made back in 580 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 3: the you know Constitution and our founders did that. Honestly, 581 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 3: you know, we should do away with it. I think 582 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 3: the chances of that ever happening are absolutely zero, but 583 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 3: we should. We should at least keep making it an issue. 584 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: You know, in your aforementioned epilogue for your audio book, 585 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: you Know, you talk about Vice President Harris being chronically 586 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 1: underestimated during her time as VP, as so many women 587 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: candidates and politicians are. But you also say maybe it 588 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: was PTSD from decades of battling the sexism and double 589 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: standards that plague women in politics. There's just something about her. 590 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: People say, we get tripped up by the likability test 591 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 1: or the authenticity trap, or people don't like the sound 592 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: of our laugh, the tone of our voice, the length 593 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: of our hair, you name it. I hear you, sister. 594 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,839 Speaker 1: It's all gotten. It's all gotten worse in the age 595 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: of social media, with anonymous mobs harassing any woman who 596 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: has the temerity to stick her head up. So my question, 597 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: Hillary is how concerned are you that both sexism and 598 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: racism will impact Kamala Harris's chances of winning? I mean, 599 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: I remember there was a Sarah Palin Barbie Doll, but 600 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 1: a Hillary Clinton nutcracker. Yeah. Remember I was so infuriated. 601 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,320 Speaker 1: It was at the airport. 602 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 3: I was like, what, Yeah, I know, I mean many 603 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 3: people sent those to me. They were great stocking stuffers. Look, 604 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 3: we're just among friends here and. 605 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: A few thousand francs. 606 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. Of course there will be people who will not 607 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 3: feel comfortable or want to vote for the vice president 608 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 3: because she's black, maybe because she's the daughter of immigrants, 609 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 3: and because she is a woman. That is just a fact. 610 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 3: We have to live with that, we have to understand that. 611 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 3: But that's you know, she is not putting that front 612 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 3: and center in her campaign. She doesn't need to. She 613 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 3: is talking about the issues, the kind of president she 614 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 3: will be, how she has policies. You can go to 615 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 3: her website and literally see them all rolled out. But 616 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say that it is still 617 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 3: difficult to convince some people. And depending upon where you 618 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 3: are in the country, the percentage will, you know, be 619 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 3: greater or lesser that you know, you can be the president, 620 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 3: you can be the commander in chief. And so she's 621 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,399 Speaker 3: she and her campaign are fully aware of that. They're 622 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 3: not dwelling on it, and they are inspiring a lot 623 00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:00,080 Speaker 3: of people independence Republican women who care deeply about, you know, 624 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 3: their reproductive freedom and whether they get to make decisions 625 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 3: that are right for them and their families. And so 626 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 3: I laid that out because I want to be honest 627 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 3: about the challenges. They haven't gone away, but they've somewhat diminished, 628 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,959 Speaker 3: I think, at least I hope. So. So I think 629 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 3: she is running a terrific campaign. She has to stay 630 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 3: on her message about you know, who she is, what 631 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 3: she wants to do, and what a danger Trump poses. 632 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 3: But let's not you know, let's not overlook the fact 633 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 3: there will be some who just can't bring themselves to 634 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 3: vote for a woman. And you know Shirley Chisholm, who 635 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,479 Speaker 3: was the first woman on the Democratic side to make 636 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 3: a serious run for the presidency. You know, she once 637 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 3: famously said, you know, I'm black and I'm a woman, 638 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 3: and it's been much harder being a woman, in part 639 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 3: because it's kind of the you know, unfinished business of 640 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 3: human history to ensure that women have equal rights and 641 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 3: equal respect in whatever arena they find themselves. And so 642 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 3: I think she she has to be aware of it, 643 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 3: but not dwell on it. And I think we all 644 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 3: have to be very vigorous in our advocacy for the 645 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 3: Harris Waltz campaign, both on the merits, because I think 646 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 3: they'd be excellent for our country, and I just want 647 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 3: to breathe again, you know what. I think if we can, 648 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 3: if we can you know, defeat Trump now in the 649 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 3: upcoming election, then you know, people can take a deep breath, 650 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,439 Speaker 3: and the Republican Party may be able to find it's 651 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 3: you know, conscience and its backbone and be able to 652 00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 3: reconstitute itself with people who I would disagree with on issues, 653 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 3: but honestly would not fear for my country's future. And 654 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 3: that's what we have to hope for. 655 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: Vice President Harris has been criticized for not being more 656 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: specific in outlining her agenda. In a recent Time Santopol, 657 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 1: twenty eight percent of likely voters said they felt they 658 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 1: needed to know more about her, and even after the debate, 659 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,399 Speaker 1: many undecided voters told The New York Times that they 660 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: still wanted more details about her plans and policies. Should 661 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:36,400 Speaker 1: be she'd be talking about her political agenda with more specificity. 662 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 1: In your view, well. 663 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 3: That's assuming Donald Trump has put out a really specific 664 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 3: But no, I mean that's a low bar, you know, 665 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 3: I mean actually has with Project twenty twenty five, which 666 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 3: should scare everybody here. You know, I have mixed feelings 667 00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 3: about this. I was accused of being uh specific, too 668 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 3: specific a lot of other things, but certainly that, and 669 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 3: I was also I put out a book about my policies, 670 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 3: I gave speeches about my policies. At the end of 671 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 3: the campaign, nobody knew anything about my policies. And I 672 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 3: just think it's a trap. I mean, first of all, 673 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 3: for such a short campaign. I mean, if this were 674 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 3: a year and a half campaign like they usually are, 675 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,839 Speaker 3: you would lay things out, you would you know, talk 676 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 3: about them, you would have all kinds of events about them. 677 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 3: I mean, she's got fifty days. So if you go 678 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 3: to our website, she has a lot of really good 679 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 3: policies and they are smart and they could be you know, 680 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 3: transformational about housing, for example, the opportunity to economy, which 681 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 3: is what she's talking about. But when I hear people 682 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 3: say that, it kind of makes me think, well, compared to. 683 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 1: What or is something else? 684 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 2: Is the. 685 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,359 Speaker 3: Text there? And that's right, Katie, I mean is it 686 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 3: like I just need to know more? Well, I think 687 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 3: part of it is what they're really saying I just 688 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 3: have to be more comfortable voting for a woman and 689 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 3: voting for this woman. So she's done, I think, an 690 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 3: absolutely credible job in putting policies out, and she talks 691 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 3: about some of them, but it's more about how she 692 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 3: makes people feel. And you know that Maya Angelou quote 693 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,879 Speaker 3: like you know when somebody shows you who they are, 694 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 3: believe them the first time. Well, she's showing that. She's 695 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 3: a positive, energetic, optimistic person who wants to lift people up, 696 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,959 Speaker 3: not tear them down. And we need that so much 697 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 3: in our country right now to have that kind of leadership. 698 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: I want to get back to you and your speech 699 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 1: at the DNC. I was with a group female friends 700 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,919 Speaker 1: last week celebrating one of their birthdays, and they were 701 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: marveling at how generous you were in your speech at 702 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: the DNC, and one said, I thought this was such 703 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 1: a lovely thing to say. It's as if Hillary took 704 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: our broken hearts and allowed them to be released. Ah. 705 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: Was it hard for you, Hillary, at any level to 706 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: not have the pang of damn? It should have been me? 707 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,799 Speaker 3: Well, I will tell you I was first asked to 708 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,240 Speaker 3: speak at the convention when Joe Biden was a candidate, 709 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,400 Speaker 3: and you know, obviously wanted to do my very best 710 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 3: to support him if that was to be so. Then 711 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,960 Speaker 3: when everything changed and they asked me to speak at 712 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,360 Speaker 3: the convention, you know, they asked me to speak on 713 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 3: the very first day, and I really felt like I 714 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 3: had to be a bridge from where I was eight 715 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 3: years ago. What I was trying to do what I 716 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 3: hoped could be done to the vice president. And it 717 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:25,839 Speaker 3: was a very very hard speech to write, and it 718 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 3: was a hard speech to deliver. You know, I practiced 719 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 3: it and would get, you know, pretty teary eyed about 720 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 3: it because it was hard. But it was something that 721 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 3: I felt really good and comfortable doing because I kind 722 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 3: of knew what my assignment was and I knew that 723 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 3: for a lot of people there was this twenty sixteen overhang. 724 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,720 Speaker 3: I mean people today, I mean it's eight years people 725 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 3: today come up and they see me and they burst 726 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 3: into tears and they throw their arms around me and 727 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 3: they're sobbing on my shoulder because of twenty six That 728 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 3: must be a little weird. Well no, I mean it's 729 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 3: very touching, but you know it, people know that it 730 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:14,640 Speaker 3: was an unprecedented election, and you know, those people who were, 731 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 3: you know, supporting me. You know, it has been a 732 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 3: very long time, so I knew I had to both 733 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 3: you know, give you know, give everybody permission to be 734 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 3: one hundred percent behind Kamala, and so in delivering it, 735 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,279 Speaker 3: you know, going out there in the arena in Chicago, 736 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:40,879 Speaker 3: first of all, you know, I can't see too many 737 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,239 Speaker 3: faces beyond like the first couple of rows here because 738 00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 3: of the way that the theater here is lit. But 739 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 3: at the convention, the way it was lit is I 740 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 3: could see people, twenty twenty five, thirty forty rows. I 741 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:57,280 Speaker 3: could recognize people, And it was such an intimate moment 742 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,640 Speaker 3: even though there were you know, many thousands of people there, 743 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 3: and I felt like it truly was the passing of 744 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 3: the torch. It was like, this can be done, we 745 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 3: are going to do it. And in the speech, remember 746 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 3: the main point I wanted to make it's not just 747 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 3: about finally breaking through that glass ceiling. It's on what's 748 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 3: on the other side of the glass ceiling. What are 749 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,400 Speaker 3: the opportunities, what kind of future can we dream about 750 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:30,600 Speaker 3: together to really empower all of our people, especially our 751 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 3: girls and young women. So it was a very emotional 752 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 3: moment for me. And you know it was one of 753 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 3: the most rewarding, you know, public experiences I've ever had. 754 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, 755 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,839 Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want 756 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy 757 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,279 Speaker 1: world reach out. You can leave a short message at 758 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: six h nine five one two five five five, or 759 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,840 Speaker 1: you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would 760 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production 761 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, 762 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, 763 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,840 Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian 764 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, 765 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, 766 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,960 Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit 767 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,200 Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me 768 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more 769 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:55,400 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 770 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,799 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.