1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight. From Coast to Coast am on 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norry 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: with her, Peter Ward with us. He's been active in paleontology, biology, 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: and more recently, astrobiology for more than forty years. Since 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: his PhD in nineteen seventy six, he has published more 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: than one hundred and forty scientific papers dealing with paleontology, zoology, 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: astros and topics like that. He's an acknowledged world expert 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: on mass extinctions and the role of extraterrestrial impacts on 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: the planet. His book is called Under a Green Sky 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: and here he is back on Coast to Coast Peter, 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: A pleasure to have you, my friend. How are you, George? 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: How are you and are you staying healthy? I am 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: staying healthy. I am confined in Missouri where I am 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: right now, but doing the shows and can't wait for 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: this planet to get back to some kind of activity again. 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: I think people are starting to feel the tension, Peter, 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: what do you think they are? But start looking at 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: small bits of hope and George, I've never ever in 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: my life seen Venus. You had doctor Sky on Venus 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: is putting on a greater display of lights in the 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: sky than any planet I've ever seen. In the west 22 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: as the sun goes down, it's so bright up there, 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: and it's just kind of like a hopeful aspects a beacon. 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: We're going to get through this, I think so too. 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: It'll be it's it's a tough one, but we're gonna 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: make it. And I'm very hopeful that we're going to 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: make it, and we're going to be stronger as people, 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: I think after we get through this, to be sure. 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: Agree with you. I agree with you, And it's interesting 30 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: what the viruses do. I think the Earth, as you 31 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: mentioned in the preamble here, the Earth has changed itself. 32 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: We're all inside and we have less seizemic activity, fewer cars, 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: fewer rumbling factories. The Earth is quiet. I had a 34 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: story last week that said that the planet isn't like 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: vibrating as much as it used to. Is that because 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: everybody's staying home? Things just aren't working? Absolutely? Absolutely, it's 37 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: not only people staying home. I think mining has stopped, 38 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: fracking has stopped, the pumping of groundwater for big factories 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: has stopped. We have just shut the mechanism down. Well, 40 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: in a moment. I've got a client coming on that's 41 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: going to talk about filtration of air. But this is 42 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: amazing because the planet's been cleaning itself up right now, 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: it definitely has, and nature is noticed. We're seeing lots 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: of animals, and I just noticed the first time that 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: bears are making a reappearance almost everywhere. They're going, well, 46 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: where are the cars? And it's just the fact that 47 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: car scare animals. I live in a rural area. I 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: mentioned you are close to one too. Fewer cars, animals 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: are changing behavior. So again I'm looking for the good 50 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: side of this. I think we're going to come through this, 51 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: all of us with a better appreciation of nature. But 52 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: what happens when we go back to work full tilt again. Well, 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I wonder if we will go back full tilt. For instance, 54 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: my wife, who worked so hard, she goes to the office, 55 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: she's there every day at eight. She comes to him 56 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: at six, and for the first time her boss is saying, 57 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, maybe we should be working at least one 58 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: or two days at home. And it's kind that realization 59 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: that perhaps we can slow down a little bit, if 60 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: we could pull through this with that sense. It is 61 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: not the greatest victory we could think here. George, Well, 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: you know this is kind of funny you say that, Peter, 63 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: because I know someone who owns a small business here 64 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: in the Saint Louis area, and you know, his people 65 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: have been home for about a month, working out of 66 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: their homes individually, and he's beginning to wonder, why should 67 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: I pay rent for a little office building when everybody's 68 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: working out of their house and I'm still getting things done. Yeah. Well, 69 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: that's a very good point. The question I have, and 70 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: the question a lot of business people have, can you 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: be as efficient in a home office? Because least for me, George, 72 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm home. I am confined to my house now. 73 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: My University of Washington we've shut down, and so I 74 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: have been housebound. But I guess I'm an inward person. 75 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: I've been writing. I haven't noticed it to the point, 76 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: but I don't know if people can be as efficient. 77 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: But maybe that's a good thing too. Maybe this thing 78 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: is again let's look for the good side of this, 79 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: because I do agree the amount of tension and stress 80 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: that is moving forward has actually insticated me to think 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: of my next book is going to be called stress. 82 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: A natural history. The molecule that is making us feel 83 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: this crazy actually first appeared five hundred billion years ago. 84 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: I mean, this is if we have within a seven 85 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: forty seven an old piece of rusted bit of metal 86 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: from two hundred years ago running a beautiful airplane, we 87 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: humans have this junky, terrible old molecule that really affects 88 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: us so important, and yet it's a very ancient, nasty 89 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: piece of biology. Interesting. I got an email from one 90 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: of our listeners, Peter, who says, I can't sleep anymore. George, 91 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: thank God for your show, because now at least I 92 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: can listen to the whole program and then try to 93 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: get to bed afterwards. But before that, I can't sleep. 94 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm just too stressed. I've got too much tension. I 95 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: bet there's a lot of people Peter that way. They're 96 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: just uptight, staying in the house all the time, they're 97 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: going stir crazy. Yeah, I guess I got the downside. 98 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: We're seeing certainly more violence within families because there is 99 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: some stir crazy going on. But again, I think a 100 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: lot of people that I know are starting to read 101 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: books for the first time in year. There's all of 102 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: us are watching movies, and certainly we've all they're looking 103 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: at the Crazy Tiger Show on Netflix. But there's also 104 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: it's an interesting moment to think about biology, because this 105 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: virus is showing us the power of biology and the 106 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: power of really evolution. The new studies, I'm sure you've 107 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: seen them, it suggests it really can't be a bioweapon. 108 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: We didn't build this. Nature built it. But the dangerous part, George, 109 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: is that our weapon people can look at how nature 110 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: built this think because it has some new components that 111 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: really do make this a very scary, weaponizable piece of biown. Well, 112 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: I've got my own suspicions about what the Chinese might 113 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: have been doing with this. It's just to me, I 114 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: don't believe in coincidences, peer. I think things happen for 115 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: a reason. And the fact that this apparently started in Wuhan, China, 116 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: and they do have a viral lab there, oh man, 117 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I've been looking hard at that. 118 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: I spent the day because I know this question would 119 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: come up today and there's certainly coincidences that are terrible 120 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: things to have to explain away. And they did have that. 121 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: It's not just a lab, it's a lab that can 122 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: handle viruses of the most dangerous kind. But again it 123 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: really does look like it came from a bat. But 124 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: it's also got this really interesting component the panguins, the 125 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: strange mammal that has these great, big, heavy scales. There 126 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: are pieces of the virus, the COVID nineteen that has 127 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: what looks like little pieces of bits from a virus 128 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: that comes from a panguin. So I spent the day 129 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: trying to figure out could a pangl of eat a 130 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,559 Speaker 1: bat or a bat eat a panguin, And really neither 131 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: could happen. And yet we know that genes could jump, 132 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: and a little piece of a virus from a panguin 133 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: has gotten into a virus from a bat and was 134 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: eaten by a human. And George has started with one 135 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: virus one human, yep, one day and they're off ran. Well, 136 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: that's what concerns me, Peter, because even if this diminishes, 137 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: and I don't think it's going to ever diminish to 138 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: the point of zero, because even the seasonal flu never 139 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: does that. We still get our sixty thousand poor humans 140 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: in this country dying every year. But if they get 141 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: to the point where they say we've got it under control, 142 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: we're getting back to normal. What's to say it's not 143 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: going to fester again? Well, I got the question is 144 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: what's to say that by fester? I think you could 145 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: also put the word in evolved, because it is a 146 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: series of mutations that made this darn thing get as 147 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: bad as it did. And also again, jeans are not 148 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: locked up. Jeans jump from place to place, from creature 149 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: to creature. Could it get worse? Could it get better? 150 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean, this is already a terrifying a little virus. 151 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: I looked into what it does, how it gets in. 152 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: What makes this virus unique? It has apparently a little 153 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: bit of protein scissors essentially, just like scissors. It gloms 154 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: onto you from those little spikes. It then has a 155 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: protein which cuts open a cell and gets in and 156 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: then reproduces it hijack the interior of the salad oft 157 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: it goes. But the strangest thing, George, the World War 158 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: Two airplanes would drop shaft, they would hide from radar 159 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: by dumping tons and tons of little pieces of paper tinfoil. 160 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: This virus was so terrifying about it. It covers itself 161 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: with amato acids, but it covers itself more importantly with sugar, 162 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: big pieces of sugar covered over the immune system of 163 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: the creature invaded. Can't see it. It's hiding. This is 164 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: the new wrinkle that makes this thing so scary. And 165 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: so does the virus have a brain, Peter, I mean, 166 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: does it think? No, it certainly doesn't. But one of 167 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: my favorite people in the world, another scientist at University Washington, 168 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: the man who really said that life probably started in 169 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: the deep sea events, told me once that, you know, 170 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: we think we run the world. The viruses run everything. 171 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: No single virus can ever have a thought. But viruses 172 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: as a gigantic superorganism, we have no no idea what 173 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: those things are doing. And it's kind of a terrifying thought, 174 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: all things considered. Let's say we have two people standing 175 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: next to each other and somebody comes by and they 176 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: have the virus, and they breathe on person number one, 177 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: and they breathe on person number two. But person number 178 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: one never gets it, that doesn't come down with any symptoms, 179 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: just doesn't get it. Person number two comes down with 180 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: the virus. Why, well, person number one may have breathed 181 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: it one into the lungs. It hits a cell within 182 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: the lungs, itself that was perhaps sick, or perhaps this 183 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: person smokes or bad air around them, but the immune 184 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: system around that cell isn't up to snuff. Virus gets in, 185 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: cuts it open. There you go person number two, younger 186 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: perhaps or stronger, or just random chance. The virus lands 187 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: on a cell or a series of cells, because it 188 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: would be not one virus but many, but it hits 189 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: cells that can defend themselves. The virus has killed. Nothing happens, 190 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: just your playing roulette quite often with biology. Listen to 191 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one a m. 192 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com 193 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: for more