1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nor 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: with you. Edward Humes, our special guest tonight for the 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: first few hours. A Pulitzer Prize winning journalist for reporting 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: on the military for the Orange County Registered newspaper. Author 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: of a number of books fifteen plus, most recently Burned, 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: a story of murder in the Crime that was not. Edward, 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the program. I'm looking forward to talking with 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: you about this. Thanks, George, happy to be here and 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: congratulations on your Pulitzer Prize. I work for the Pulitzers 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: back in seventy nine in Saint Louis at one of 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: their television stations that they owned at the time, and 13 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: very journalistically inclined family. Let me tell you absolutely. Now 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about we're doing two things here. 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about this incredible case which is 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: the basis for the book Burned, but also evidence that 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: gets screwed up that gets people put in jail when 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: maybe they shouldn't have been there. But tell us about 19 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: this nineteen eighty nine case if you can, of Joan, 20 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: of course, yes well. Joe M. Parks was living in 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: a small suburb of Los Angeles, Belle, when fire broke 22 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: out in her home small garage apartment, and the fire 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: quickly spread throughout the house. She escaped, but her three 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: children were trapped inside and perished three young children, ages one, two, 25 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: and four. And at first it seemed it was a 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: tragic accident and was treated as such. But over time 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: the fire investigators who combed through the wreckage and debris, 28 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: came to the conclusion that the fire had been deliberately set, 29 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: that wiring in the house extension cords had been sabotaged 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: to overheat, and that one of the children had even 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: been barricaded it in a closet in there so he 32 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: couldn't escape the flames and died a terrible death as 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: a result. Joan Parks was tried with capital murder. Tried 34 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: for capital murder, faced the possible death penalty, the jury 35 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: decided to impose a life sentence rather than death after 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: a lengthy trial, and she has been in prison ever since. 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: How old is she now? In thirty years? How old 38 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: is she No, she is now in her mid fifties. 39 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: So he spent more than half of her life in 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: prison and really had resigned herself to to dying in 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: prison because it's a life without parole sentence under the 42 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: below that was in effect at that time. Was there 43 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: a father at the house or was he around at all? 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: There was a father, He was at work and had 45 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: a fairly airtight alibi, although at one point the investigators 46 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: were convinced he was really the having forced behind this 47 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: fire because he had been trained as an electrician in 48 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: the service in the army, and the thought by the 49 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: investigators was that electrical short had been created on purpose 50 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: and he would have had to know how rather than 51 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: Joe in Parks to do that. But as I said, 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: he had he had an alibi, and so the only 53 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: other person who could have set the fire, if in 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: fact it was deliberately set. What was Joe in Parks? 55 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: Did anybody? Did anybody testify on behalf of her in 56 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: terms of her character and her love of the kids 57 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: or anything like that. There there was a very concerted 58 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: effort to to take what it was weak physical evidence 59 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: in the case, or ambiguous evidence, and to bolster it 60 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: by prosecutors by going after her for her character. She 61 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: would you know, she was not the best housekeeper. The 62 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: house was kind of messy. She was a young mother 63 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: in her early twenties with three young children. She had 64 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: to work a job as a waitress to help support 65 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: the family. The husband was not a reliable breadwinner, so 66 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: there was a lot of stress and strain on the family, 67 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: and some people thought that she could have been better 68 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: at parenting than she was. She had very little support 69 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: from her own family, her mother and sisters, and you know, 70 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: it was possible to portray her in a very negative 71 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: fashion in a way that was quite effective for the prosecution. 72 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: There were other witnesses said she was a loving mother 73 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: and who did her best under trying circumstances, so that 74 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: testimony was contradictory. Tonight on the c W, from the 75 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: executive producer of The Vampire Diaries and The Originals, comes 76 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: the incredible story about making Contact. Get ready for the 77 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: highly anticipated arrival of the new series Roswell, New Mexico, 78 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: What Liz or Teca returns to her sleepy, legendary hometown 79 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: of Roswell, where she's reunited with high school crush Max Evans, 80 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: small town cop with an extraordinary secret. Drawn together as 81 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: if by some unseen force of attraction. Max reveals to 82 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: Liz that he's an alien who fell to Earth during 83 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: the infamous UFO Crash of nineteen forty seven from another world. 84 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: He and his brother and sister have lived their entire 85 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 1: lives in secret, never telling the soul the truth about 86 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: what they are or the mind blowing powers they each possess. 87 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: When Max's family finds out that he has broken their 88 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: vow of secrecy, of vents are set in motion that 89 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: will rock the entire town of Roswell to its core. 90 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: Don't miss the unbelievable new series Roswell, New Mexico, Tonight 91 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: only on the CW. There is an organization, though, called 92 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: the California Innocence Project that is trying to defend her right. Well, 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: they took up her case all these many years later. 94 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: They had taken a hard look at the evidence in 95 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: the case, and they concluded that it fell into a 96 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: pattern of cases that they had been seeing over the years, 97 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: in which the expert testimony, the forensics, the CSI people 98 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: that you know have become so prominent in our crime 99 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: television shows and films, and justifiably because they do an 100 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: important job. But there's a pattern that's emerged where some 101 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: of the forensic discipline, some of that science turns out 102 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: to have very little science behind it, and the experts 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: who are testifying are doing so with great certainty, where 104 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: in fact the certainty isn't warranted. And the Innocence Project 105 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: felt that Joan Parks's case fit into that pattern and 106 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: that she deserved a re opening of the case. What 107 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: got you to look at this case? Sword Well, I 108 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: was interested in this this notion of innocence projects, which 109 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: have spread from one organization in New York to ones 110 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: all over the country in recent years, and what stimulated 111 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: their growth was the advent of DNA evidence, which which 112 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: is one of the newest and most well vetted and 113 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: researched of forensic disciplines, and the unintended consequence of developing 114 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: this technology, which which was brought in to the justice 115 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: system as a means of catching criminals and doing so 116 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: with with great surity as to who were identified. The 117 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: unintended consequence was it also exonerates people, including people who 118 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: are in prison based upon older forensic sciences, and the 119 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: DNA has showed that we've made a lot of mistakes. 120 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: There's been since since the advent of modern innocence projects, 121 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: these these charitable organizations to go out and represent people 122 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: who have essentially no constituency. There's been twenty three hundred 123 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: and sixty three exonerations of people who are imprisoned primarily 124 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: for murder or other very serious crimes, and a quarter 125 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: of those had been imprisoned on the basis of other 126 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: forensic experts who claimed that either through fingerprints or bite 127 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: marks or other forms of physical as inherent fibers. They 128 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: have been convicted on the basis that an DNA technology 129 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: has shown that they were innocent after all, and that 130 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: these older forensic disciplines were focused. And that's been a revelation, 131 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: and the justice system has been rappling with bad science, 132 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: junk science in the courtroom ever since. And one by 133 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: one these cases are being overturned. Arson cases have fallen 134 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: into that area that turns out to have had a 135 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: lot of poor science or or or even mythology behind 136 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: some of these older cases in which arson seemed to 137 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: be found to have occurred, and turns out there was 138 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: no crime committed at all. Edward, you have met Joanne Parks. 139 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: I have what did she seem like to She seemed 140 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: like a person who's been been in prison for the better, 141 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, the greatest part of her life. I think 142 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: she she she has she gave up hoping that she 143 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: could ever get her innocence. She has maintained that she 144 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: was innocence from the star, and she never confessed. He 145 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: never um did anything but claim that she she tried 146 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: her her best to get to her children but failed 147 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: to do so and had to double horror of first 148 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: seeing her children die and then being accused of killing them. 149 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: If in fact she is innocent, I can't think a 150 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: little more horrible, horrible faith than than having that happened 151 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: to a person to lose their family and then be 152 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: blamed for it. Because of the Innocence Project's decision to 153 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: take up her case, she you know, she dared to 154 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: hope and has you know, still fighting to overturn her conviction. 155 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: But I think she's a profoundly damaged person from these questions. 156 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: Go ahead, No, and and that's really common. I mean, 157 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: the people who have been released after spending so many 158 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: years in prison for something they didn't do. How do 159 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: you get over that. We have a very poor system 160 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: in this country of compensating people for being being so 161 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: wrongly convictim, and even and money can't really return those 162 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: years lost to you and the families that have been 163 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: chattered as a result of these wrongful convictions. So what 164 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: we really need is a concerted effort to review um 165 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: the kinds of review, the causes of wrongful convictions, and 166 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: one of the one of the major causes, as the 167 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: miscuse of forensic expert testimony. 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