Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene. Daily
Speaker 1: we bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,
Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg James Paulson.
Speaker 1: Where this Jim Paulson of luth Old Weeding Capital Management,
Speaker 1: as we lay out on a Friday, the path to February,
Speaker 1: and of course the distractions of a short squeeze. Jim Paulson,
Speaker 1: I would respectfully suggest you've seen this before. What is
Speaker 1: different this time with Robin Hood versus the other short
Speaker 1: squeezes you and I have enjoyed well. I Um, I
Speaker 1: think that a couple of things Tom hit me. One.
Speaker 1: One is I think it's another illustration of the impact
Speaker 1: that technology is having, the the power that technology can
Speaker 1: deliver to a small quadre of people. Were certainly seeing
Speaker 1: that in companies like Facebook or Twitter or even people
Speaker 1: on those platforms on the influence they can have, and
Speaker 1: now we're seeing it in the financial markets. UM. I
Speaker 1: think I think that's sort of interesting. The social movement
Speaker 1: aspect is of course unique. Uh, this is less a
Speaker 1: uh short squeeze and there is an angry crowd in
Speaker 1: some regard and UM, I think more to the point,
Speaker 1: it just it seems like it's a destabilizing force, more
Speaker 1: so than in past short squeezes where there's this just
Speaker 1: seems like you you can colude with a with a
Speaker 1: with the redding UH platform UH and and act in
Speaker 1: unison UH to target a specific security and move its
Speaker 1: price wherever you want to with just a little bit
Speaker 1: of leverage. UM. I think that's a destabilizing force. I
Speaker 1: think it's UH to me, sounds a lot like market
Speaker 1: manipulation and probably needs to be regulated. The last point
Speaker 1: I'd say about it is, you know, like the other ones,
Speaker 1: this is going to end badly and probably um eventually
Speaker 1: greed is going to set in, and even among the
Speaker 1: young um robin hood traders, they're going to start to
Speaker 1: take some profits. And when that happens, the thing's gonna
Speaker 1: conravel like they have in the past and probably heard
Speaker 1: a lot of the same investors. We'll let the lawyers
Speaker 1: deal with the legal issues, Jim, I do want to
Speaker 1: get your view on whether we're discussing this the right way.
Speaker 1: We often have this conversation. Everyone is over the last
Speaker 1: week because them versus them, the institutions versus reads out Jim,
Speaker 1: don't you think that's kind of naive to believe that
Speaker 1: there are institutional traders on the Reddit boats doing exactly
Speaker 1: the same thing, squeezing out the big shorts. I totally agree.
Speaker 1: I totally agree that is it's probably happening. More is
Speaker 1: the price of moves. I come back to John that
Speaker 1: whoever is doing it, I think this is market manipulation.
Speaker 1: I think it's a destabilizing force. And you know, think
Speaker 1: about the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve in this country
Speaker 1: spent most of last year, a great bulk of the
Speaker 1: year re establishing functionality and liquidity UH and stabilization to
Speaker 1: the financial markets. That was a big part of what
Speaker 1: they did all year long. And now we're we're allowing
Speaker 1: something that's destabilizing the financial markets and setting up the
Speaker 1: situation to harm a number of of of investors, whether
Speaker 1: they're big or small UH down the road. And I
Speaker 1: think it's it's sort of hypocritical to do what we
Speaker 1: did last year to try to stabilize the financial markets
Speaker 1: to save the economy and assistant and allowing this to
Speaker 1: go on unless That's where I'm at. I don't I'm
Speaker 1: still understanding a lot of this do to play Devil's advocate.
Speaker 1: People would say, Federal Reserve perhaps stabilize the market for
Speaker 1: the people in the market, which includes the big Wall
Speaker 1: Street players and the wealthiest individuals. And that seems to
Speaker 1: be the tone that the tone the trope among a
Speaker 1: lot of these Robin Hood investors. I mean, what do
Speaker 1: you say to people who say that Wall Street has
Speaker 1: lost the moral high ground here based on the idea
Speaker 1: that there has been a sort of rejiggering in terms
Speaker 1: of the fundamentals and the price action based on what
Speaker 1: policy has done. Well, I'm not sure Wall Streets ever
Speaker 1: had the high moral ground, you know, if it starts
Speaker 1: the imagination. But I gotta tell you, if if we
Speaker 1: uh you go back to any crisis we've had, and
Speaker 1: if you don't re establish uh functioning Wall Street and stability,
Speaker 1: it's disasters for the economy. And and so you know
Speaker 1: the result of that is if you if you don't
Speaker 1: do that, I think the Federal Reserve would say that
Speaker 1: too at LESA. Then if if you don't re establish
Speaker 1: a functioning Wall Street, it will be disastrous for the economy,
Speaker 1: which means it will be disasters for everyone. So when
Speaker 1: you say Wall Street, you save the economy there, they're
Speaker 1: not a separate deal, and I think that's important to understand.
Speaker 1: I think one great thing that's coming out of the
Speaker 1: Redding situation here, which is a wonderful thing for the future,
Speaker 1: is that we're in enticing more and more young investors
Speaker 1: at a younger age millennials rather than waiting to four
Speaker 1: or fifty to start to learn to invest in the
Speaker 1: markets and getting involved in the marketplace. I think that's
Speaker 1: a huge success. It will be very beneficial down the
Speaker 1: road in terms of general wealth creation, in terms of
Speaker 1: greater liquid markets over time and greater participation by more.
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what if we damage everybody uh
Speaker 1: while they're just starting to get involved with this, that
Speaker 1: will set that trend back. Jim, it's kind an ups
Speaker 1: Jim Poston. At least wait and always take shot it
Speaker 1: with Jim. Jim, thank you say thanks for having right
Speaker 1: now from the International Monetary Phone. It was my great
Speaker 1: honor to speak to the managing director, Krystelina georg gave
Speaker 1: a few days ago. She stops and she listens to
Speaker 1: Vitr Gaspar He is the I m F Director of
Speaker 1: Fiscal Affairs, always an important position, and evermore so in
Speaker 1: the tumult of this pandemic. Vitor Carmen Reinhardt wrote a
Speaker 1: paper this summer, my paper of the summer with a
Speaker 1: foreign affairs magazine on the pandemic depression. How is your
Speaker 1: fiscal world given the attempt to get through this pandemic
Speaker 1: right now? So a pandemic by nature, uh tom is
Speaker 1: a health crisis at this point in time. The chief
Speaker 1: economist of the I m F as emphasized that we
Speaker 1: face a tremendous amount of uncertainty. That it is a
Speaker 1: race between a mutating virus and the vaccines. The virus
Speaker 1: got a headstart and in the North Atlantic area the
Speaker 1: cases have been very strong in this period of fall winter.
Speaker 1: It is crucial that the rollout of vaccines takes place
Speaker 1: very quickly, and that's a global process. I like to
Speaker 1: say that the virus is not defeated anywhere before it
Speaker 1: is defeated everywhere, and so ensuring global access to vaccines
Speaker 1: at low cost is crucial to be the pandemic. Dr
Speaker 1: Gorey gave us spoke of the new inequality from this
Speaker 1: natural disaster. Tell us what you and your team have
Speaker 1: learned about the new inequality and the distribution of stimulus.
Speaker 1: Are we still are we providing fiscal stimulus to too
Speaker 1: many of the halves and not enough of the have nots.
Speaker 1: There are two very important dimensions of that inequality that
Speaker 1: I would like to stress. One is uh divergencies across
Speaker 1: countries in terms of economic prospects, in terms of supporting
Speaker 1: the economy. At one extreme, you have a country like
Speaker 1: the US that has ample fiscal space that can provide
Speaker 1: relief to the economy, that has been providing relief and
Speaker 1: more is in the pipeline, and looking forward, the United
Speaker 1: States by twenty two will be very close to its
Speaker 1: pre COVID nineteen growth path, in particular if something like
Speaker 1: the Biden relief plan gets through the political process in Congress.
Speaker 1: At the other extreme, we have low income countries that
Speaker 1: basically had to tackle the emergency of COVID nineteen by
Speaker 1: tax by changing the composition of public spending so that
Speaker 1: urgent needs in health could be tackled. Support to business
Speaker 1: and firms could be given, but the financial envelope was
Speaker 1: constrained by the financial capacity of the countries. We have
Speaker 1: also very important aspects of inequality across people, and you
Speaker 1: have divergencies in terms of education. People that have more
Speaker 1: than a college degree have been much less affected than
Speaker 1: people that lacked. This pandemic as affected women and young
Speaker 1: workers UH much more than other segments. I worry very
Speaker 1: much about the children from favored families who are suffering
Speaker 1: in their education prospects given the restrictions imposed by social
Speaker 1: distancing so many people shadows concerns. I just want to
Speaker 1: finish on one brief question, if I may, do you
Speaker 1: think that to GDP right shows is still useful, that
Speaker 1: to GDP ratios are useful. They're an indicator that we
Speaker 1: do look at. It's one of the many indicators that
Speaker 1: one needs to follow, UH in order to assess public
Speaker 1: finance sustainability. It's very important that fiscal policy is able
Speaker 1: to act forcefully in case of need, and we have
Speaker 1: seen how powerful fiscal policy can be in the context
Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen, and in order to have room to
Speaker 1: maneuver to respond so forcefully as has been the case
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty in the face of COVID nineteen, fiscal
Speaker 1: buffers will eventually have to be reconstituted. But at this
Speaker 1: point in time, the priority is to UH spend on vaccines,
Speaker 1: testing and healthcare support resources, to help schools and college
Speaker 1: to reopen safely, helping the poor and most vulnerable families,
Speaker 1: help the unemployment and UH the unemployed, and make sure
Speaker 1: that there are no bottlenecks on crucial services that people
Speaker 1: need in these very un certain times of pandemic. They
Speaker 1: took right to catch up in times valuable. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending some of it on this program.
Speaker 1: Video Gasba that of the International Monetary Fund right now,
Speaker 1: not in the vaccine, but the mystery of what to
Speaker 1: do with the vaccine in vaccinations Having Tourism joins us
Speaker 1: from Duke Margolis at Duke University. Having I'm I'm absolute
Speaker 1: lutely stunned, and I went through it myself. I had
Speaker 1: the vaccine of what a manufacturing processes is. You are
Speaker 1: expert at the vaccine the virus. At the state level,
Speaker 1: why did West Virginia, why did the Dakotas succeed and
Speaker 1: others have struggled? Yeah, great to be here with you,
Speaker 1: Tom So, there's a lot of different reasons why you
Speaker 1: see a couple of states at the head of the list,
Speaker 1: and it's not predictable based on any common theme, you know, size,
Speaker 1: you know, um, political attributes, etcetera. So there's a couple
Speaker 1: of things I think that led to the early success
Speaker 1: for some states. And really I will caveat I think
Speaker 1: we're going to see a lot of moving around with
Speaker 1: the figures as things move along. But some states were
Speaker 1: just faster out of the gate. Um. You know, in
Speaker 1: West Virginia, for example, they chose to do their own
Speaker 1: thing with long term care pharmacies. So the long term
Speaker 1: care facilities that you know, most states partner with CBS
Speaker 1: and Walgreens UM, and those pharmacies were responsible for getting
Speaker 1: the vaccine into the arms of you know, residents and
Speaker 1: staff at long term care facilities. In West Virginia, CBS
Speaker 1: and Walgreens does not have a big footprint, so they decided,
Speaker 1: you know, um, we know there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: staff of those pharmacies. Now, given how quickly we need
Speaker 1: to get the vaccines into the arms of people, we're
Speaker 1: going to take control of that and we're going to
Speaker 1: partner with our community pharmacies and community partners and get
Speaker 1: it done. And and they do credit that initial, you know, quick,
Speaker 1: quick speed to that. That's the smartest thing I've heard today, Honey.
Speaker 1: What's so important is Marianna Masacata was on three hours earlier.
Speaker 1: Were there a great new book, and she said exactly
Speaker 1: the same thing. There's a point where government has to
Speaker 1: step in. Is that's what's needed in February is more
Speaker 1: government action. Well, I just also want to say there
Speaker 1: were some states where CBS and Walgreen's had a great
Speaker 1: footprint and they were very effective in getting people vaccinated. Now,
Speaker 1: so there really is this is this is um. You know,
Speaker 1: I've done state work for a long time. There's variations
Speaker 1: across the states, and it matters. You have to look
Speaker 1: at what that state um, how it operates, you know,
Speaker 1: what it's UM staffing looks like, and how you know
Speaker 1: the people are are going to be willing to get
Speaker 1: the back feet Now on federal governments stepping in, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we do need some national leadership on this,
Speaker 1: and I think states will want national realship on this.
Speaker 1: Funding is going to be really helpful thinking about a
Speaker 1: coordinated plan across the states. But I caveat that to say,
Speaker 1: UM also recognizing and I know the Biden Harris administrations
Speaker 1: is very in tune with this looking at what each
Speaker 1: state needs. Because in one state, you know, you're gonna
Speaker 1: need some National Guard, UM, you know, some federal sites
Speaker 1: to be set up in rural areas and really help
Speaker 1: the state supplement what they're already doing. While other states
Speaker 1: have enough vaccinators and they don't need that, they need
Speaker 1: other kinds of support. So you know, it's really important
Speaker 1: to look at how each state is operating and what
Speaker 1: it really needs. Hey me, you're talking about financing this effort,
Speaker 1: and that's one bipartist an agreement in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: That financing of the vaccination schedule will be very good
Speaker 1: for the nation. Can you give us a sense just
Speaker 1: to get a greater appreciation of the complication of the
Speaker 1: rollout where the money is most heavily needed going forward
Speaker 1: in order to facilitate this. Yeah, So a number of states,
Speaker 1: in order to start speeding up the process UM have
Speaker 1: started setting up mass vaccination sites, which requires a lot
Speaker 1: of different types of partnership. So that's one area I
Speaker 1: think continued resources will be needed. I also think we
Speaker 1: can't forget about populations that are harder to reach and
Speaker 1: that are in like places like rural areas where mobile
Speaker 1: sites um, you know, or community sites which will be
Speaker 1: smaller but still will need to be set up also
Speaker 1: need also will be needed. I also think, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a complicated effort that's at
Speaker 1: the federal level, the state level, and the local level,
Speaker 1: and the local level really matters, so making sure states
Speaker 1: have funding to then partner with local endies, local government,
Speaker 1: community groups, etcetera. I think it's also important because we
Speaker 1: have to get people to not only trust and believe
Speaker 1: in the vaccine, but also the process by which to
Speaker 1: get access to it. Meanwhile, just today, hey man, I'd
Speaker 1: love to just wrap up with the news of the day,
Speaker 1: which is that J and J came out with the
Speaker 1: data for the single dose vaccine. It was not as
Speaker 1: stunning as some of the other mRNA vaccinations, however, still
Speaker 1: very positive. How much does this accelerate the timeline for
Speaker 1: vaccinating I think, um, we are all hopeful across the
Speaker 1: country that they're going to be more options for vaccines.
Speaker 1: We have to get three million people vaccinated and we
Speaker 1: are not on pace for that, um and the states
Speaker 1: don't have the supply for that. So we absolutely need
Speaker 1: new candidates to come in the door. UM. I do
Speaker 1: think there are concerns UM in the public and it
Speaker 1: will I think will continue be more widespread about the
Speaker 1: strains in the UK and South Africa. I think we've
Speaker 1: seen initial evidence that for the South African strains these
Speaker 1: vaccines are are not quite as effective. I think more
Speaker 1: evidence is needed, UM, but we still need more options
Speaker 1: for people to get vaccinated. Amy, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: greatly appreciated. Hammy Charson with Duke my goals today their
Speaker 1: Center for Health Policy. The state issue here going forward
Speaker 1: is going to be extraordinary. We get lucky. It's okay
Speaker 1: three months out, six months out to book Marianna Masaicado
Speaker 1: to beat up on our new book Mission Economy, but
Speaker 1: it's far more important to speak with u CEL professor
Speaker 1: about the moment in hand as well, because the moment
Speaker 1: in hand is in the Mission Economy. It's about the
Speaker 1: new rules and the myths of capitalism. Professor Mascato, you
Speaker 1: were my book of the Year a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I haven't really looked at Mission Economy yet, but thrilled
Speaker 1: you've got a new book out. I want you to
Speaker 1: sit in London wherever you are and comment on how
Speaker 1: you observed game stop comment on this clash of technology
Speaker 1: with a traditional process of capital is um Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, let's broaden the gaze of it. Right. We've
Speaker 1: got tech, we have the digital platforms that we're talking about,
Speaker 1: we have climate change, we have the health pandemic. What
Speaker 1: they all have in common is that we need to
Speaker 1: govern the process in the common interest. And what's you know,
Speaker 1: the common theme in my different books would you always
Speaker 1: get me on for which is wonderful is that unless
Speaker 1: we actually know how to shape markets as opposed to
Speaker 1: constantly just fixed market failures in any of these areas,
Speaker 1: we get it wrong. And I do think the COVID moment,
Speaker 1: where we have the digital divide, where we have the
Speaker 1: health pandemic, where this particular crisis is sitting on top
Speaker 1: of a climate crisis, we just have to go back
Speaker 1: to first principles. And that's really what the book is about.
Speaker 1: What I want to get to that in one moment,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about something in your book, serendipity
Speaker 1: and collaboration. We're seeing serendipity. We're seeing collaboration now by
Speaker 1: smart young people sitting on couches saying to hedge funds
Speaker 1: forget about it. We make the rules. How laborative is
Speaker 1: this new technology, whether it's a crisis like game stop,
Speaker 1: or it's to the broader world economy that you look
Speaker 1: at well, I mean, you know, when I say go
Speaker 1: back to first principles, we should also ask where does
Speaker 1: this technology even come from in the first place. And
Speaker 1: that was kind of two books ago in The Entrepreneurial State,
Speaker 1: where I talked about how everything that makes our iPhone
Speaker 1: smart and not stupid, from the Internet, GPS, touch screen,
Speaker 1: syrian I could go on, was all actually government financed. Right,
Speaker 1: So you know what happens then when this technology and
Speaker 1: the algorithms underlying them are actually increasingly also about extracting
Speaker 1: value and not creating value. But even more so, what
Speaker 1: does it mean to truly have a public private partnership,
Speaker 1: a symbiotic mutualistic partnership and not a parasitic partnership in
Speaker 1: these different spaces? And that's why the moon landing is
Speaker 1: so amazing. There is huge amounts of private sector innovation
Speaker 1: and investment from companies like Honeywell, General Electric, Motor Role
Speaker 1: up course, large state funding from NASA and other public entities,
Speaker 1: but they were going after a common project. So the
Speaker 1: real question is what is the common project underlying you
Speaker 1: know today's news. Yeah, so what is that common project? Mariana?
Speaker 1: I mean, we're fighting climate change where you know everything
Speaker 1: we're doing, right, but what should it be because everything
Speaker 1: we're doing is also under the president, you know, the
Speaker 1: presence of the capitalism that we know. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: let's not forget there's different ways of doing capitalism. I
Speaker 1: gave a talk this past Monday at the World Economic
Speaker 1: Forum where you and I last year were together physically
Speaker 1: in Switzerland. This year we're all zooming in and you
Speaker 1: know all the talk again it is about stakeholder capitalism. Now,
Speaker 1: if we properly had stakeholder capitalism and not just capitalism
Speaker 1: maximizing shareholder value and kind of gaming the system, then
Speaker 1: that would be a very different conversation, whether we're talking
Speaker 1: about digital platforms, health or climate. So we need to
Speaker 1: remember first of all that there's different experiences in the world.
Speaker 1: Stakeholder capitalism is practice, has been practiced in certain companies
Speaker 1: in certain parts of the world. So we need to
Speaker 1: actually learn from those experiences and walk the talk. And
Speaker 1: there's no better place, I think right now than the
Speaker 1: vaccine to talk about that, because it's not enough to
Speaker 1: have you know, Fiser, the National Institutes of Health, which
Speaker 1: is public money moderna Oxford University, you know, investing in something.
Speaker 1: The question is how do we then govern it for purpose?
Speaker 1: And that's really what the moon Shop book is about,
Speaker 1: which is what is the common purpose with the vaccine?
Speaker 1: It's not just to get a vaccine, it's to make
Speaker 1: sure everyone gets vaccinated. Right, Marianna has okay, But if
Speaker 1: you look at the Commission, they can't even have access
Speaker 1: to the vaccines because you know, they started too late.
Speaker 1: So where do you started actually changing so that you
Speaker 1: create the system that you're seeing, which is you know,
Speaker 1: mission critical, you achieve the goal that you set out right,
Speaker 1: So you know, I think we're bringing in different issues
Speaker 1: here which are all related. So it's a good thing.
Speaker 1: But one issue is also the capacity and the capability
Speaker 1: on the ground organizationally, and whether we're talking about the
Speaker 1: European Commission or the UK government, which is where I'm
Speaker 1: sitting here. In the UK has outsourced its capability and
Speaker 1: its capacity so much to the private sector that a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, a Tory Lord Agnew said that
Speaker 1: the government had become infantilized. It's such an interesting word.
Speaker 1: I started to use that. Uh. You know, by outsourcing
Speaker 1: your brain, you get infantilized. You lose your capability and
Speaker 1: capacity to manage anything, whether it's Brexit or COVID. So
Speaker 1: instead of just kind of taking the status quo, so
Speaker 1: say the European Commission getting in there too late, the
Speaker 1: question is going forwards. How can we actually govern and
Speaker 1: shape and co create markets and such a way to
Speaker 1: achieve the goals we need, which is inclusive growth, sustainable growth.
Speaker 1: And I do think at the center of the COVID
Speaker 1: recovery scheme, and you know we all are talking about
Speaker 1: building back better has to be green growth. And this
Speaker 1: is where the European Commission has gotten it right, more
Speaker 1: so I think than the US, even more so than China.
Speaker 1: Which is the current European recovery scheme, which is close
Speaker 1: to a trillion is conditional. No longer on austerity, which
Speaker 1: is the conditions that we set in the financial crisis
Speaker 1: for the recovery scheme, but on investment, investment around digital
Speaker 1: and climate. And then there's a separate pot for help. Marianna,
Speaker 1: you have a phrase that is absolutely spectacular in folks
Speaker 1: if I was sitting in a happy valley right now
Speaker 1: on the deck with friends seeing this would be my
Speaker 1: title for this year's Davos. It is a shaping, not
Speaker 1: fixing Davos. Marianna. That is absolutely brilliant. This describes so
Speaker 1: much of what I and you know, Marianna hate the
Speaker 1: phrase thought leaders and all that other malarkey. This is
Speaker 1: so so so true. They're trying to shape the message
Speaker 1: and not fix it. Discuss that well in some ways,
Speaker 1: I guess, I'm so. I'm not sure what you've just said,
Speaker 1: but what I usually say is that we should stop
Speaker 1: just fixing market failures, you know, actually waiting for the
Speaker 1: martin the market to mess up before policy comes in.
Speaker 1: We need a different type of policy, and we need
Speaker 1: a different type of public private partnership that co creates
Speaker 1: and shapes markets to deliver the outcomes we actually need.
Speaker 1: And that requires fundamentally different partnership. Literally a new contract,
Speaker 1: and I do you know, I'm not a big fan
Speaker 1: of getting lawyers involved, but I really want to starting
Speaker 1: of contracts, the procurement contracts, the grants and the loans,
Speaker 1: if we could embed within them a common purpose like
Speaker 1: had because that was embedded within the structure of how
Speaker 1: NASA collaborated with the different companies, we would have a
Speaker 1: very different outcome today in health and also around um Yeah, sorry, Marianna,
Speaker 1: take it narrow. Should Gary Gensler with the Biden administration
Speaker 1: be more proactive about fixing and not shaping Wall Street
Speaker 1: given the crisis it's in this Friday morning? Well, I
Speaker 1: mean the big you know, the big issue there is
Speaker 1: what is the relationship between finance and the real economy.
Speaker 1: You know, most of the global finance actually ends up
Speaker 1: back in the financial sector in the UK, something like
Speaker 1: only twenty of finance even goes into the real economy. Now,
Speaker 1: once it goes into the real economy, how can we
Speaker 1: make sure it actually helps to steer our system in
Speaker 1: fundamentally different ways. Everyone talks about the green transition, Bidence
Speaker 1: talking again about the Green Deal, But finance has to
Speaker 1: be part of that solution, and unfortunately we have lots
Speaker 1: of short term finance. We have speculative finance, even venture capital,
Speaker 1: which in theory is like the better form of finance,
Speaker 1: is very exit driven. That actually ended up really hurting
Speaker 1: the biotechnology industry, which ended up with lots of product
Speaker 1: less I p O. S. We have to avoid that
Speaker 1: currently with all the uh you know, innovation happening again
Speaker 1: in space with you on Musk and clean tech, we
Speaker 1: cannot have exit driven finance just trying to get a
Speaker 1: return and really creating a max that we have to
Speaker 1: then pick up. But it is a wonderful book on
Speaker 1: the mission economy, where Marianna Masicado straps a great triumph
Speaker 1: of the Apollo program over to the challenges of capitalism
Speaker 1: moving forward. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast.
Speaker 1: Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or
Speaker 1: whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom
Speaker 1: Keene before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide.
Speaker 1: I'm Bloomberg Radio.