WEBVTT - Behind the Scenes Minis: Eugene

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to stuff you missed in history class, a production

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<v Speaker 1>of I heart radio. Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy

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<v Speaker 1>P Wilson and I'm holly FRY. We spent all week

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<v Speaker 1>talking about Eugene Jacques Bullard. I mean that's a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>dreamy way to spend a week. It really was. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I when people started asking us to do this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>which it might have been before the earliest ones that

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<v Speaker 1>are still in the inboxer from it really was like

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<v Speaker 1>here's a viral facebook post about this black fighter pilot

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<v Speaker 1>from World War One, and at first I was really like,

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<v Speaker 1>that post you gave me is all the information that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm seeing. So it sounds cool, but I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how that would work. Um. And at that point the

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<v Speaker 1>like the book that I referenced. It was specifically, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>focused mostly on like his jazz age Paris life. That

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<v Speaker 1>book already existed. It just wasn't coming up in the

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<v Speaker 1>places that I was searching for it, and there is.

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<v Speaker 1>There's just way more information available about him now. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if his unpublished memoir would ever be published.

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<v Speaker 1>All I have read of it are passages that were

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<v Speaker 1>quoted in other things about him from people who, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>went to the archive where there's a copy of it

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<v Speaker 1>and read it for themselves while working on a biography.

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<v Speaker 1>But I kind of wonder what other bits in there

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<v Speaker 1>besides his relationship with his wife, might be a little, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>not in alignment with what can be verified, which is

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<v Speaker 1>this is not a reflection like this. That happens with

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<v Speaker 1>memoirs almost across the board, like anytime you're reading somebody's memoir,

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<v Speaker 1>there's probably stuff in it that is either they remember

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<v Speaker 1>it differently from how it really happened or they're kind

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<v Speaker 1>of putting the best light they can on something, or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe the worst light they can on something like this.

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<v Speaker 1>Is Not unique to his memoir at all, but man,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious about it. I think, I mean I I

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<v Speaker 1>have a history crush on him. It's like everything you

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<v Speaker 1>want in a person. He's interesting, he's resilient, he speaks

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<v Speaker 1>of Kajillion languages, so he's clearly smart and interesting. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>he punches racists and Nazis like this is this is

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<v Speaker 1>the total package. Punching racist was a big part of

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<v Speaker 1>his I didn't write about this in the episode at

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<v Speaker 1>all just because it's totally speculative on my part. We've

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<v Speaker 1>talked so many times on the show about the social

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<v Speaker 1>expectations placed on black people and the measures that black

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<v Speaker 1>people have had to take to try to keep themselves safe. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And like that came up in our episode on Mamie

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<v Speaker 1>till Mobley and the murder of Emmett till and like

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<v Speaker 1>how she had talked to him about how to behave

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<v Speaker 1>around white people with the hope that he would be safe.

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<v Speaker 1>So I wonder, or imagine that, like his leaving the

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<v Speaker 1>United States for Europe when he did, when he was

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<v Speaker 1>still relatively young. I mean he was into his teens,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was not even he was not an adult yet. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>how that influenced his willingness to just fight back violently

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<v Speaker 1>all the time, because he uh, he had a passage

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<v Speaker 1>that he sort of related a thing that his father

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<v Speaker 1>had had told them in this conversation that his father

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<v Speaker 1>had that was like, if something happens to me, I

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<v Speaker 1>want you to be good, Um. And it was something

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<v Speaker 1>along the lines of don't back down from a fight,

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<v Speaker 1>but don't go looking for one either. Um. And that

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<v Speaker 1>seems to have been something that he deeply into. Ternalized

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<v Speaker 1>your bodied. Yeah, yeah, yes, Um, I bet you like me.

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<v Speaker 1>Would like to use our imaginary time machine to go

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<v Speaker 1>back in time and maybe listen. I'm not a fan

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<v Speaker 1>of violence, but slap around Dr Edmund Gross a little. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like that at least, like feed him a Sneezer, like

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<v Speaker 1>give him, you know, food. I spit him. I don't. Don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't spit in people's food. Just that man is deplorable.

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<v Speaker 1>What a meme, natured snake of a weasel. I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>combine all kinds of common there. There were other people

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<v Speaker 1>in addition to him that we did not get into

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<v Speaker 1>you at all, who were also part of handling the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of white American troops and their proximity to black

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<v Speaker 1>people in France in World War One and, like a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people, really concerned about how people were gonna

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<v Speaker 1>Act if suddenly they were deployed next to a black battalion.

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<v Speaker 1>And Oh, it was nauseating to read a lot of it. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's uh, a lot of the things that I read

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<v Speaker 1>that were about gross and what gross did and that

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<v Speaker 1>gross is. I'm assuming that's how he pronounced its name.

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<v Speaker 1>It was spelled G R O S and I I'm

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<v Speaker 1>guessing it was pronounced like Gross, which makes it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a suitable name for somebody who just took such

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<v Speaker 1>pains accuracy. But I kept finding people being like yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's not totally confirmed that he was the person

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<v Speaker 1>who did this, but it does seem like he was

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<v Speaker 1>the person who did this, and I'm like, are you

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<v Speaker 1>just trying to cushion that possibility or what? Because there

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<v Speaker 1>were just so many things that bullard was denied or

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<v Speaker 1>kept out of or whatever, and that guy just kept

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<v Speaker 1>showing up over and over M it's like every time

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<v Speaker 1>we would I had read through it, but then every

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<v Speaker 1>time we would get to his name or I would

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<v Speaker 1>see it coming up as we were recording, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>I had a fresh, like visceral yuck response, like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and it stinks that he kept recurring in Jean's life,

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<v Speaker 1>like I have moved on to other things. Oh, here

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<v Speaker 1>he is again, here he is again to maybe start

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<v Speaker 1>another ambulance corps, which I mean was an important thing

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<v Speaker 1>to do, but still, uh. This episode also made me

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<v Speaker 1>wish somehow I had a time machine so that I

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<v Speaker 1>could have researched it before we took our trip to

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<v Speaker 1>Paris back in twenty nine. Team was that when we

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<v Speaker 1>did that Um, because we spent a lot of time

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<v Speaker 1>walking around Mamarch. He did indeed, and that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>might have been nice to do with that additional bit

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<v Speaker 1>of context. I mean, the good news is Mal Matra

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<v Speaker 1>is still there. We can still at some point and

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<v Speaker 1>do it all over again, look for at least the

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<v Speaker 1>space is where where he could have been, even though,

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<v Speaker 1>like his building burned down and went not so yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, any excuse to go to Paris. Yeah, let's

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<v Speaker 1>do it. Yeah, as soon as I got to the

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<v Speaker 1>part where the minute he got to Paris, he was like,

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<v Speaker 1>this is where I want to be, I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>he and holly are kindred spirits. I was just like, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the history person of my dreams. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to hang with him. Are you kidding?

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<v Speaker 1>Like the fact that he is Um, he was such

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<v Speaker 1>a chameleon in terms of like being able to turn

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<v Speaker 1>his efforts to so many different vocations and do pretty

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<v Speaker 1>well in all of them. Like I like that he

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<v Speaker 1>became a jazz drummer, and not only was he like, Oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I can get booked because people need a drummer so bad,

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<v Speaker 1>but Zelli is also like I also need you to

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<v Speaker 1>like run this business for me and he's like Oh, okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he was. He was also characterized as like good, but

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<v Speaker 1>not great at most of the things that he tried.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was like a good pilot but not a

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<v Speaker 1>great one, and a good drummer but not a great one.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like you keep saying that, just just like

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<v Speaker 1>I've the number of things that he tried to do professionally.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's reasonable to expect that he would

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<v Speaker 1>have been great at all of them. I love a

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<v Speaker 1>Jack of all trade story. I love it. He's a

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<v Speaker 1>renaissance man. Yeah, I think probably of all the things

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<v Speaker 1>that he tried, the thing he was probably the best

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<v Speaker 1>at was like running that nightclub like that. Like that,

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<v Speaker 1>that aspect of it seems to be where he had

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<v Speaker 1>the most standout success, versus being a boxer or a

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<v Speaker 1>combat pilot or whatever, where it was more like he

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<v Speaker 1>was he was pretty good, and a spy, and a spy,

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<v Speaker 1>holy Moses, what a life like? That's the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>life that, if it were fiction, you'd be like this

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of a lot. You could let's edit out

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<v Speaker 1>part one of these jobs please. So, yeah, you cain

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<v Speaker 1>pull he's great. I really enjoyed doing this episode. Once again,

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<v Speaker 1>happy Friday. Whatever is coming up for your weekend, I

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<v Speaker 1>hope it's great. If it's not great, I hope there's

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<v Speaker 1>at least like a moment of rest and peace for you.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll have a brand new episode on Monday, Saturday, classic tomorrow,

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<v Speaker 1>which is Saturday, and you can subscribe to our show

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